Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Desktop Audio and Video => Topic started by: Elwood on October 25, 2009, 07:59:52 PM
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Hello Classic Amigans,
I made these videos especially for you. I'm sure a lot of Classic owners think OS4 on Sam440 is something they wouldn't like.
I am quite sure of the contrary. So I decided to show you how some 68k programs perform on a Sam 667 Mhz.
Enjoy the videos:
LightWave on Sam440 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e5zwPhMClk)
TVpaint on Sam440 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRH3w1Y18pQ)
ImageFX on Sam440 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7p30G83P38)
They run inside the 68k emulation and they still run a lot faster than my A1260. Cool! :-)
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There are things called tripods. ;)
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Hi Elwood... You're welcome to send me your videos to amitopia@gmail.com
I need some AmigaOS 4 content for the show too you know :)
Regards,
Michal
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Hey Ellwood, Great videos.
How long does it take the Sam440 lightwave to render an animation of the the famous 2 fighter scene. ?
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omgosh..I was thinking the same thing..
The videos are a great idea but a struggle to watch.. Kinda like the Blair Witch Project..ug.
Does not have to be a tri-pod. Even a sitting the camera on a stack of books anything to keep the vid camera from moving.
Rich
ny
There are things called tripods. ;)
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Great to know these programs work....
Thanks for posting the videos.. :-).
Rich
ny
Hello Classic Amigans,
I made these videos especially for you. I'm sure a lot of Classic owners think OS4 on Sam440 is something they wouldn't like.
I am quite sure of the contrary. So I decided to show you how some 68k programs perform on a Sam 667 Mhz.
Enjoy the videos:
LightWave on Sam440 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e5zwPhMClk)
TVpaint on Sam440 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRH3w1Y18pQ)
ImageFX on Sam440 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7p30G83P38)
They run inside the 68k emulation and they still run a lot faster than my A1260. Cool! :-)
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Well I can say that I remember a Pentium 4 1.8 ghz rendering each frame in about a second or less.
Lets see how the Sammy compares..
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There are things called tripods. ;)
:-) Not only. I would need to zoom to show some parts of the screen and it can't do it automatically.
I should hire an assistant then :-)
@Crom00
The rendering time depends on the settings, with/without shadows etc...
If you want me to try some settings, tell me and I'll render the animation.
@AmiDelf
I'll upload them somewhere for you. Will send you an email when done.
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How did you get Lightwave to open on such a large screen? even in Winuae I can't get bigger than PAL resolution. In the higher resolution, does the animation preview work?
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How about these settings:
d2 resolution NTSC Video (720X486)
IFF Frames
Anti Aliasing: Normal (medium)
All textures, shading, shadows and lighting on.
The funcitonality of versions 3.5 to version 5 is pretty amazing. For logo animations, and everything but high end character animation it's pretty darn good. Just look at any episode of Babylon 5 or ST: Voyager seasons 1-2.
You have to render things in passes and composite them in After Effects or excuse me... IMAGEFX... ha ha ha
I'm not surprised this works so well. My Atom PC runs Image FX and os 3.1 nicely off my A1200 HD in a USB case. I have all my software dating back to 1992. I never got the undbundled Amiga lightwave... I went to PC in 1997.
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How did you get Lightwave to open on such a large screen? even in Winuae I can't get bigger than PAL resolution. In the higher resolution, does the animation preview work?
I used the Prefs/Screens commodity of OS4 to force LW to open at this resolution.
Making the preview works but not playing it, but as the speed while it is created is close to the speed of the played preview it's not a big problem :-)
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"Excellentes videos. On voit la maitrise du sujet LW & TVPAINT".
Great videos. We can see that you controls LW & TVPAINT.
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left you a PM..must know how you got lightwave runing properly on your Sam please
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Great videos. We can see that you controls LW & TVPAINT.
Really? I never use these 2 software. I have them only for testing purposes under OS4.
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@Crom00
Sorry for the delay.
In the meanwhile I switched from the Sam440ep 667Mhz running OS4.1 to a SamFlex 733Mhz running OS4.1.1.
With the Sam, Lightwave crashed after 1 hour of calculation. With the Flex, it runs with no crash. Maybe the amount of RAM and graphics RAM between the 2 machines made it to work perfectly, or it's the 68k emulation which improved in OS4.1.1
Anyway with the settings you gave me, the 200 images were rendered in 8 hours and 18 minutes (it's 2.5 minutes average).
Maybe someone with a 060 could try the same on his machine. The scene is here: http://elwoodb.free.fr/files/SpaceFightersTest
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I would love to know how to get the Lightwave Layout app to work in a higher screenmode than the default under UAE. It works fine under UAE, but only at the "regular" resolution which is something like 652x456 (close to that - I'm just making those number up from memory). Lightwave has options for an 800x600 and another high resolution screen in its preferences, but those just blow up the screen and make portions of it run off the edges. I don't even understand why they are included or how to use them properly.
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Maybe you can use a screen promoter like the one included in OS4.
Check http://aminet.net/package/util/cdity/NewMode_V39
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Maybe you can use a screen promoter like the one included in OS4.
Check http://aminet.net/package/util/cdity/NewMode_V39
Thanks. NewMode did promote the Layout interface very well into any RTG screenmode I wanted. I was using Lightwave Layout at 1024x768 UAE RTG mode. However, as you noted, the preview did not display. Also, trying to render did not work (GURU). I could only render to a file, not to screen. What render mode did you use on your SAM?
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What render mode did you use on your SAM?
PicassoII.
The screen which opens at this time (while rendering) is smaller than the current screen resolution. I suspect this is a 640x480 resolution.
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left you a PM..must know how you got lightwave runing properly on your Sam please
still waiting for a response ??
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PicassoII.
The screen which opens at this time (while rendering) is smaller than the current screen resolution. I suspect this is a 640x480 resolution.
How can you get it to render on a Picasso II screen when you don't actually have a physical Picasso II card installed in your SAM440? I am trying this on UAE with Picasso96 RTG software installed and all I get is a black screen.
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@klx300r
Sorry, I don't have a PM from you :-/ But I just sent you one with the reply.
@ral-clan
Let me explain better. In order to do the speed test Crom00 asked me, I didn't need to display the image on screen so I selected Picasso2. Like this the display is garbled when the image is displayed, but the IFF image which is saved on disk is perfect.
Now I tried to select these render settings:
- HAM6 and HAM8 works nicely. Both are displayed correctly thanks to the native modes of OS4 (they are called FakeNative modes).
- CyberGFX, it doesn't work as LW says "CyberGFX-preferences not found".
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@klx300r
Sorry, I don't have a PM from you :-/ But I just sent you one with the reply.
@ral-clan
Let me explain better. In order to do the speed test Crom00 asked me, I didn't need to display the image on screen so I selected Picasso2. Like this the display is garbled when the image is displayed, but the IFF image which is saved on disk is perfect.
Now I tried to select these render settings:
- HAM6 and HAM8 works nicely. Both are displayed correctly thanks to the native modes of OS4 (they are called FakeNative modes).
- CyberGFX, it doesn't work as LW says "CyberGFX-preferences not found".
Ah yes, thanks. I experience the same thing under UAE. The Picasso II mode render from Lightwave is visible when promoted to a UAE RTG graphics screen, but it is badly garbled.
Ham-8 and Ham-6 modes work nicely.
Using NewMode (a screen promoter) I can start the Layout tool in any high-res RTG modes (like 1024x768 UAE RTG) and it is fully useable (except for Preview animations), but I must make sure to tell NewMode to NOT promote the native Amiga screens generated while rendering.
After the RENDER button is pressed in Lightwave, the program opens three screens (a non visible 640x18 pixel one, a greyscale 640x480 pixel one which is the one you see when Lightwave is calculating antialiasing, and the final HAM-8 or HAM-6 screen which shows the fully rendered object in full colour). I must tell NewMode to NOT PROMOTE these three render screens or the program will crash. Fortunately, NewMode allows me to save these settings so in future everything occurs seamlessly. In this way, you can use the Lightwave Layout tool under UAE or any RTG Amiga quite nicely. The only sacrifice in promoting the Layout tool is the aforementioned loss of the preview animation (which will not be visible when Lightwave Layout is promoted to an RTG mode). This is unfortunate as I find the preview animation mode quite useful
Seems like that's the best we can get until someone programs software to emulate a Picasso-II or Video Toaster card in UAE (since the Toaster design has been open-sourced this may actually happen one day).
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Some news. I have found that the Lightwave Plugin "Cybergraphix Renderer" or "CyberGFXRenderer" by Imaginative Systems will allow one to render Lightwave's output directly to a RTG screen! I am able to render to various UAE RTG modes between 800x600 and higher! So I guess all that's left is for someone to figure out how to get the animation preview to work with promoted screenmodes (RTG in particular) and Amiga Lightwave will be fully useable on modern Amiga systems, like UAE, SAM, or whatever else comes...
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Is it free? Where I can find it?
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Is it free? Where I can find it?
I think it was a commercial product about ten years ago or more. It's no longer being supported or commercially available. There's damn little about it on the internet, too.
So it's not free, but it's also not available commercially. You have to find it from "other sources". ;-|
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>So I guess all that's left is for someone to figure out how to get the animation preview to >work with promoted screenmodes (RTG in particular)
I think winuae is able to do this.
You can go to expansion Page in winuaepref on start winuae and choose a diffrent pixelmode and or activate 24 bit.
to do this change (24bit) to all or a Pixelmode.When done well also the screenmode requester offer you 24 bit modes.When you select all you get 2 Modes.
i dont have lightwave, maybe you can upload a screenshot how the animation preview look in picasso2 display.or tell me a program that i can test and have same problem when use picasso2 mode.
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>So I guess all that's left is for someone to figure out how to get the animation preview to >work with promoted screenmodes (RTG in particular)
I think winuae is able to do this.
You can go to expansion Page in winuaepref on start winuae and choose a diffrent pixelmode and or activate 24 bit.
to do this change (24bit) to all or a Pixelmode.When done well also the screenmode requester offer you 24 bit modes.When you select all you get 2 Modes.
i dont have lightwave, maybe you can upload a screenshot how the animation preview look in picasso2 display.or tell me a program that i can test and have same problem when use picasso2 mode.
I tried what you suggested, but it doesn't help. Animation wireframe preview mode does not offer you the choice of any screen modes.
Just so I am being completely clear, we have been talking about two different preview modes is this discussion threat. There is full colour render mode, which renders your image on a custom screen (usually HAM) in full colour. That problem has been solved with the CyberGrafx Renderer plug-in mentioned above.
The second problem comes with the Wireframe Animation Preview in Lightwave Layout: this gives you a simple, moving, wireframe view of your animation on the Native (642x768 NTSC) screen. This animation is shown within a portion Lightwave Layout's user interface, not on it's own custom screen. It is a quick way of showing the user an animation in Lightwave without wasting time doing a full render. This mode highly dependent on the native Amiga graphics chipset. While you can successfully promote Lightwave Layout's user interface to an RTG screenmode when you generate a preview wireframe animation, the animation simply doesn't show up - although all the controls for the animation are still visible and you can click on them.
I hope that description helps.
@ Elwood: Hey, Elwood, in your YouTube video you said that you were running Lightwave on OS4 but couldn't see the preview. Have you seen this patch for OS4?
http://aminet.net/package/gfx/3d/lightwave_rtg_patch
It claims to fix the preview issue (but only on OS4 - I wish the author could fix this for classic Amigas). It's not clear from the language the author uses whether he means the animation preview, or the render preview when he refers simply to "preview" in the description. I suspect it is the latter.
If it's the former meaning, though, it seems to me that with this patch and the Cybergrafx Renderer plugin you'd have pretty much full functionality of Lightwave in RTG modes under OS4 (but unfortunately us classic users are still waiting for a preview patch).
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>It's not clear from the language the author uses whether he means the animation >preview, or the render preview when he refers simply to "preview" in the description. I >suspect it is the latter.
What happen when you run the patched Version on classic ?
I dont believe that there is a special OS4 function need 68k not have, also when code 68k code in OS4 the new OS4 functions cant use.
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>It's not clear from the language the author uses whether he means the animation >preview, or the render preview when he refers simply to "preview" in the description. I >suspect it is the latter.
What happen when you run the patched Version on classic ?
I dont believe that there is a special OS4 function need 68k not have, also when code 68k code in OS4 the new OS4 functions cant use.
Well, that patch actually does not modify the Lightwave Layout binary, it is a patch you run from CLI before you start up Lightwave Layout. I did try it in OS "classic" (3.9) and it said something about a command error.
But I did think like you originally....if this patch can be made for OS4, why not classic systems?
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>But I did think like you originally....if this patch can be made for OS4, why not classic >systems?
maybe the patch is not need on classic because in patch readme stand this.look that lightwave work only with this patch
""""
This does not work under RTG graphic systems because they do not
support the classical planar screen formats used on old Amiga hardware.
Unfortunately it is not possible to disable the preview, therefore the
only way to make it work is to patch it.
"""
also nobody have written that the preview work correct on OS4