Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: danwood on October 17, 2009, 09:54:45 PM
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Hyperion Entertainment CVBA and Amiga Inc. reach settlement
Brussels, Belgium – October 17, 2009
Hyperion Entertainment CVBA is pleased to announce that on September 30, 2009, it has reached a comprehensive settlement agreement with Amiga, Inc., Itec LLC and Amino Development Corporation, Inc., to bring all ongoing litigation and worldwide pending procedures between the parties to an end.
As part of the settlement agreement, the Amiga Parties acknowledge that Hyperion is the sole owner of AmigaOS 4 without prejudice to any third party rights.
Within the framework of the settlement agreement Hyperion is granted an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to AmigaOS 3.1 in order to use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market AmigaOS 4.x (and subsequent versions of AmigaOS including without limitation AmigaOS 5) in any form, on any medium and for any current or future hardware platform under the exclusive trademark “AmigaOS” (Amiga operating system) and using other associated trademarks (such as the “BoingBall” logo).
Hyperion will continue development and distribution of AmigaOS 4.x (and beyond) as it has done since November of 2001.
We wish to thank our loyal customers who have supported us throughout the judicial procedures and especially the AmigaOS 4.x development team for their continued efforts and at the request of whom this official announcement was made.
As Hyperion Entertainment’s most ambitious project to date is drawing to a close in collaboration with our partners, we invite our current and prospective customers to watch this space for further updates on Hyperion’s continued efforts to revive the Amiga platform.
http://os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz/
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What does this mean for OS4 releases for additional hardware? (i.e., Mac Mini)
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So what exactly does this mean? Hyperion are free to develop OS4.x without impediment from Amiga Inc. Iminent new software release from Hyperion? OS4.x for Mac Mini? OS4.x for x86?
Weed
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:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:
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So what exactly does this mean? Hyperion are free to develop OS4.x without impediment from Amiga Inc. Iminent new software release from Hyperion? OS4.x for Mac Mini? OS4.x for x86?
Weed
Yup
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What does this mean for OS4 releases for additional hardware? (i.e., Mac Mini)
I can't say what their plans are, but it at least means that Hyperion can port it to whatever they want.
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:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:
Edit ---
:oops double post. OK OK I was happy.
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So if a x86K/Mac Mini version is around why bother buying a SAM?
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Awesome! After all these years it is FINALLY over!! Congratulations Hyperion!
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Woohoo!
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So what will happen to OS 3.1 now that Hyperion claims exclusive world wide rights to it? What about Cloanto and Amiga4Ever for example? And where is OS-1.x, 2.x, 3.5 and 3.9 in this?
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Congratulation Hyperion. Now get that Mac Mini port out so we can dual boot OS 4 and Morphos!
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Now, bring Project Moana back to life and prepare for all those licenses being ordered!
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Finally! Yes, please release a Mac Mini port of OS4 so we can dual boot w/ MOS and all be happy and get along and stuff.....
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Excellent!
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So, where does this leave Amiga Inc. ?
Bust hopefully...
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It's over, Hyperion won!
http://os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz/
No, Hyperion did not win. Hyperion and Amiga Inc - Itec came to a new agreement.
Now all those Red AI bashers, are you going to defend Hyperion's partner, Amiga Inc?
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No, Hyperion did not win. Hyperion and Amiga Inc - Itec came to a new agreement.
Now all those Red AI bashers, are you going to defend Hyperion's partner, Amiga Inc?
I would not exactly call them partners now. I heard that Amiga.com website is now up for sale. Makes you wonder exactly what Amiga Inc. is going to do next? Will they continue to pursue Amiga Anywhere or Amiga DE? Will they finally abandon the name "Amiga" altogether now that they have lost the right to the name "AmigaOS"?
Congratulations Hyperion! Please tell us what your next hardware target is for porting AmigaOS4.x to.
Things are looking up in this tiny niche world of Amiga.
Also I would second, third, or what ever the idea of porting AmigaOS4.x to the MacMini G4 so we could have a dual boot MorphOS and AmigaOS4.x system. I might use mine a lot more if that were available.
AmiWest 2009 Show is going great. Hope you all are enjoying the news from here and the webcam feed is working okay. Amiga Game Competition is tomorrow.
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Being sued and not losing is actually a win.
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Does the access and right to use OS3.1 to develop their programs also give the the rights to use Kickstart 3.1?
I'm wondering if this would allow Hyperion to develop a pre-loaded SD card for "Minimig" type machines with an office Kickstart and OS installation. Perhap even a complete "Minimig" games system for commerical release...
Either way, well done Hyperion and hopefully this will allow OS4.x to move forward in leaps and bounds.
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@amigadave
Makes you wonder exactly what Amiga Inc. is going to do next? Will they continue to pursue Amiga Anywhere or Amiga DE? Will they finally abandon the name "Amiga" altogether now that they have lost the right to the name "AmigaOS"?
Since there is an agreement Amiga Inc must have got something in return. Btw anyone noticed Hyperion Entertainment was at the same time restructured from VOF to CVBA?
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Interesting...
The intelligent (thought obviously not the simplest) thing to do would be to commence a port of OS4+ to x86...
We can dream, I guess...
Mike.
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Or ARM instead of either x86 or PPC.
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ARM machines aren't nearly as common as x86. Porting to ARM would be silly.
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No, Hyperion did not win. Hyperion and Amiga Inc - Itec came to a new agreement.
Now all those Red AI bashers, are you going to defend Hyperion's partner, Amiga Inc?
They are not partners. Not according to the Hyperion press release. Amiga, Inc. no longer owns or has rights to AmigaOS 4. Hyperion is the sole owner of AOS4. Just like Amiga, Inc. has or had, Hyperion now has unlimited rights to Amiga OS 3.1. Hyperion now has Amiga OS and is completely separated from any entanglemnet with Amiga, Inc. All Amiga, Inc. has is Amiga Anywhere and whatever other rights/ownership of previous Amiga OS versions. Amiga, Inc. previously mention and long in development Amiga OS 5 is sunk. At least under that name.
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If Hyperion wants to fund future developments they need to make more money selling existing products including OS4.1?
Since OS4.1 for PPC MACs apparently exists in some form, my guess is we will soon see it released, right?
Right?
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Just downloaded (at a cost of $10) the company status from Delaware Division of Corporations:
Status: AR delinquent, Tax due
Status date: 03/02/2009 (ie 2nd March)
(From the website: "This represents a corporation that has not filed the required annual report and there are delinquent taxes due."
Looks like Amiga Inc isn't taking care of basic business anymore.
PDF available here (http://www.mediafire.com/?pxbukl5ynt4). :-)
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PDF available here (http://rapidshare.com/files/294410200/Amiga_Inc_DE_status.pdf.html). :-)
Thank you very much :)
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I didn't think OS 4 had a Kickstart.
They have the rights to 3.1 to protect the bits of 3.1 that are in OS 4. If AI goes belly up the right to classic OS will be in limbo, possibly a long time, with the possibility that whomever eventually ends up with those rights could take legal action against Hyperion, the specific granting of rights to 3.1 should prevent this.
Does the access and right to use OS3.1 to develop their programs also give the the rights to use Kickstart 3.1?
I'm wondering if this would allow Hyperion to develop a pre-loaded SD card for "Minimig" type machines with an office Kickstart and OS installation. Perhap even a complete "Minimig" games system for commerical release...
Either way, well done Hyperion and hopefully this will allow OS4.x to move forward in leaps and bounds.
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I didn't think OS 4 had a Kickstart.
They have the rights to 3.1 to protect the bits of 3.1 that are in OS 4. If AI goes belly up the right to classic OS will be in limbo, possibly a long time, with the possibility that whomever eventually ends up with those rights could take legal action against Hyperion, the specific granting of rights to 3.1 should prevent this.
I was thinking of Kickstart from the Minimig point of view where it is needed.
That said, doesn't OS4.x use a kind of UAE environment to run legacy software and if so then doesn't it need a Kickstart for the classic emulation?
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thats GREAT NEWS! Competition brings out the best in both camps. Let the fun begin!
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:destroy:
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No longer, may I suggest uploading it to a service without a 10 downloads limit like mediafire.com or ifile.it?
oops!
'tis done.
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Maybe this means that we'll rise up again.
Maybe there will be brand new Amiga branded machines and we'll get again our identity back!
I have in mind a couple of Amiga-based machines so we can find again in our shops an Amiga branded machine... i can imagine in shopping malls along the Apple Stores we'll find and Amiga Store... maybe I'm dreaming but I WANT TO BELIEVE
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Great news! Congratulations Hyperion!
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ARM machines aren't nearly as common as x86. Porting to ARM would be silly.
Depends on what you want to target.
In terms of netbooks, ARM is going to be big next year with Smartbooks running around Tegra and Snapdragon based platforms (ARM11 and ARM Cortex A8/A9). It seems like a very sensible platform to target to me. That's before all the smartphones, but I think that Android, WebOS, iPhoneOS, Maemo, S60 and even WinMob have this market tied up for now.
Imagine a $300-$400, dual-core, 1GHz+ ultra-portable laptop, running AmigaOS 4.5 reliably.
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Ohh I can Imagine that okay. Let's hope it's around the corner.
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Congratulations to Hyperion & the Legal team.
@ Wayne
Sods law about this re: selling this site
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Now all those Red AI bashers, are you going to defend Hyperion's partner, Amiga Inc?
Pffff. Thats a lovely bit of conjecture there. I sincerely doubt its true, though.
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About damn time!
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Imagine a $300-$400, dual-core, 1GHz+ ultra-portable laptop, running AmigaOS 4.5 reliably.
That would be cool, but at the same time raises the question: What does AmigaOS brings that Linux does not? I mean, what applications would AmigaOS would have that run better or are not available at all in Linux? What programming tools are available for AmigaOS that make it easier/faster to port applications or games to it? In a nutshell, is AmigaOS ready for the big leagues? I ask because I heard emulation in AmigaOS is lacking, so if I am better of with an x86 laptop running WinUAE, why would I make the jump to AOS in arm?
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So what exactly does this mean? Hyperion are free to develop OS4.x without impediment from Amiga Inc. Iminent new software release from Hyperion? OS4.x for Mac Mini? OS4.x for x86?
Weed
It means they can do whatever they want and develop whatever they want. They OWN THE OS free and clear now.
No word on what the next platform will be but there are now no hurdles blocking future development.
IMHO the market for people purchasing OS 4.X to install on cheaply had intel machines is far greater than the market for people willing to buy more expensive (and slower...) PowerPC hardware. I think it is a "Do the math" moment for Hyperion...
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That would be cool, but at the same time raises the question: What does AmigaOS brings that Linux does not? I mean, what applications would AmigaOS would have that run better or are not available at all in Linux? What programming tools are available for AmigaOS that make it easier/faster to port applications or games to it? In a nutshell, is AmigaOS ready for the big leagues? I ask because I heard emulation in AmigaOS is lacking, so if I am better of with an x86 laptop running WinUAE, why would I make the jump to AOS in arm?
That question never came up for me... I don't care one bit for Linux and it has nothing to do with whether or not I would consider purchasing Amiga OS 4.X or later.
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Wow! That's great news!!
Here's hoping Hyperion will do an x86 port - I'd love to run OS 4.0 native on PC hardware!!
Congrats Hyperion!!
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Maybe this means that we'll rise up again.
Maybe there will be brand new Amiga branded machines and we'll get again our identity back!
I have in mind a couple of Amiga-based machines so we can find again in our shops an Amiga branded machine... i can imagine in shopping malls along the Apple Stores we'll find and Amiga Store... maybe I'm dreaming but I WANT TO BELIEVE
YES, AMIGA BRANDED MACHINES IS THE ONLY WAY THAT AMIGA WE'LL EVER REGAIN FULL IDENTITY, even if the machines can be purchased only via the internet for the time being. Porting to this or that machine to be installed by this or that hobbyist is small thinking, IMO (but it still beats being held hostage by AI).
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FINAL..FRAKIN..LY !!!...(where's those damn dancing banana's)
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this is awsome well done l got say you stuck it out hyperian well done to you
l got say what awsome company l support what ever you plan got me as customer
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Thats a great news! If it would stay in hands of Amiga Inc it wouldn't go anywhere,as they didn't have a vision.
There is a few ways Hyp. could go now and make some profit to expand+promote, in my opinion that would be the best for (almost) everyone:
Keep working on OS4 and new versions, but now focus on something like this - start making own AMIGA branded models, but let PC,Mac users have AmigaOS available for it, with special PCIx card with system Core on it (this one would be made only by Hyp. and could be named simply AmigaCore) and sell Amiga Logo license for third part companies to make Amiga clones. Plus could sell Amiga branded keyboards, mouses,even monitors. etc. for new users who would invest only in AmigaCore card.
If anyone of Hyperion read it - I have more ideas and I wouldn't say no if you offer me a job hahaha ;)
What changes you could make in system (after things like good browser and other software is sorted) to make it more interesting for potential users - promote it as a main OS on user`s PC (so it need to be as stable as possible,but Amiga Core card could help it - system could be run from fast chips,which are not so expensive anymore) and make extremely reliable WinXP and W7 emulation (if possible included in the system, but You would have to buy legal W$) or simply 2 systems on same PC.
Another cool idea is some kind of compatibility with Linux and package of other systems emulation included in OS (clic-n-go system for old Amiga, c64,atari,nintedo,sega games etc.) and cool new Amiga brand pads :)
Is that look a bit too much? I don't think so. There is plenty of people out there sick of W$ and would welcome some alternative (hopefully not as expensive as Mac). And if AmigaCore card (with AmigaOS4+ DVD) could be sold for 200-300 euro it would make it profitable and interesting.
What do you think guys?
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Does anyone know how much Amiga inc is "worth" in terms of $ and cents? What would it cost to put the tech into the right hands?
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Editorial: If you take away the outstanding rent they owe... around $3.40c.
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Congratulations to Hyperion & the Legal team.
@ Wayne
Sods law about this re: selling this site
@Editor,
I have no qualms about selling the Web site, regardless of what obsolete and unobtainable hardware Hyperion choose to port the OS to. I'm not even quite sure I'd care if they ported it to an off-the-shelf, current, Intel Mac to be honest.
The problem I see, and have always seen, is that regardless of who the "winner" of the lawsuit turned out to be, the OS is still absolutely worthless without three things. Cheap and fast commodity hardware, programmers and software.
This is 2009, soon to be 2010, and we are a far cry from the massive development community of 1987/88. Back in those days, there were far fewer choices for developers. Namely, there was Unix, PC running DOS, Mac, or the Amiga, and the specs on the Amiga were 10x any of the others at the time.
Now, that's simply not the case any more, and frankly, it'll be impossible to attract any real development base to any future OS platform *unless* Hyperion pull the stick out and port it to modern, cheap, commodity hardware (aka Intel)..
In regards to Hyperion and all this talk of porting, please keep in mind that they did NOT win the right to develop new hardware and/or call it an "Amiga". They simply -- apparently -- won the rights to AmigaOS 4.x... It would still be up to Amiga Inc (from what I understand as an armchair lawyer) to develop any hardware to match the OS if you want some new machine to be labeled an "Amiga".
edit: back to the point though... I'm at a point in my life (unemployed without prospects, and quickly approaching bankruptcy) where -- even if Hyperion does port it to something top-shelf, I can't guarantee I'll be interested. As such, better the site goes to a new team with fresh eyes and a more dedicated heart than for me to keep passively participating.
Wayne
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I'm just waiting Amiga OS 4 to be ported to x86 or PPC Mac (Powermacs and Powerbooks plz) to order my copy. The rest is up to Hyperion strategists.
I would focus on porting Firefox flawlessly, or maybe chromiun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)
Most of the time ppl are using browsers anyway. Even for office applications...
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Good news.
I have to say this has removed a pretty significant barrier to me taking the plunge on OS4.x
I'm sure others feel the same.
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I feel there is some information missing about the agreement. An agreement is normally made by two parties that find that they get some benefits from the agreement.
Hyperion get the rights to the OS, but what did Amiga Inc get out of it?
Did Amiga Inc realize they were in deep sh*t, and just made the agreement to avoit a counter-lawsuit?
And who is paying for the lawsuit anyway - lawyers are far away from cheep. Amiga is claimed by many to be near bankrupt, and I guess Hyperion havent been making to much money on OS4 sales to pay everything either..
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Well, just call the new hardware AmigaOS [whatever], such
as "AmigaOS Workstation" -- but maybe I shouldn't argue with
an armchair attorney :-)
@Editor,
I have no qualms about selling the Web site, regardless of what obsolete and unobtainable hardware Hyperion choose to port the OS to. I'm not even quite sure I'd care if they ported it to an off-the-shelf, current, Intel Mac to be honest.
The problem I see, and have always seen, is that regardless of who the "winner" of the lawsuit turned out to be, the OS is still absolutely worthless without three things. Cheap and fast commodity hardware, programmers and software.
This is 2009, soon to be 2010, and we are a far cry from the massive development community of 1987/88. Back in those days, there were far fewer choices for developers. Namely, there was Unix, PC running DOS, Mac, or the Amiga, and the specs on the Amiga were 10x any of the others at the time.
Now, that's simply not the case any more, and frankly, it'll be impossible to attract any real development base to any future OS platform *unless* Hyperion pull the stick out and port it to modern, cheap, commodity hardware (aka Intel)..
In regards to Hyperion and all this talk of porting, please keep in mind that they did NOT win the right to develop new hardware and/or call it an "Amiga". They simply -- apparently -- won the rights to AmigaOS 4.x... It would still be up to Amiga Inc (from what I understand as an armchair lawyer) to develop any hardware to match the OS if you want some new machine to be labeled an "Amiga".
edit: back to the point though... I'm at a point in my life (unemployed without prospects, and quickly approaching bankruptcy) where -- even if Hyperion does port it to something top-shelf, I can't guarantee I'll be interested. As such, better the site goes to a new team with fresh eyes and a more dedicated heart than for me to keep passively participating.
Wayne
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Port OS 4 to Intel hardware and I'll happily order a copy the day it's released. Keep it on obscure PPC hardware and I'm staying away.
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Absolutely fabulous news! I'll keep my fingers crossed for that x86 port and maybe amiga branded intel based hardware from acube... I'll be there!
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@Wayne sorry to hear about your troubles :-( I'm not exactly sitting on fat stacks of cash either at the moment. The United States economy is pretty much failing-all the money's at the top and staying there.
I really couldn't say what Amiga are doing for money. Apparently, not selling OS4. It makes me wonder why they don't get it together and become the games/apps portal for Android phones-Amiga did actually invent the iPhone app store concept, if the execution (and to be fair, the technology and vision on the part of 'partner' companies) was lacking.
One of the biggest complaints about non-iPhone OSes and the equipment that they run on, is no centralized app store. Once again Amiga invents it, then Apple comes out with it five years later and acts like they thought of it :-/
I go off on this cel phone tangent because Amiga themselves supposedly went off on it several years ago. Supposedly they had a crew of East Indian programmers working on whatever it was they were/are working on. if their AA concept could work seamlessly with one executable on RIM devices as well as on Android, they'd be sitting on fat stacks of cash pretty quickly.
Sadly, I kinda doubt they have the gumption to get this done. But I'd happily be proven wrong..
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From the looks of things so far as they have been going over the years with regard to the people at Hyperion and whatnot, I think that Hyperion might be a good thing for whatever the Amiga platform is. I don't really have any feeling one way or the other as far as this ruling goes because I would have been fine with either company owning AOS. Anyhoo, it is good that it's finally over.
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YES, AMIGA BRANDED MACHINES IS THE ONLY WAY THAT AMIGA WE'LL EVER REGAIN FULL IDENTITY, even if the machines can be purchased only via the internet for the time being. Porting to this or that machine to be installed by this or that hobbyist is small thinking, IMO (but it still beats being held hostage by AI).
If your business is the OS, as it is for Hyperion, then it makes sense to get the OS on as many computers as possible. If I could throw WB 4.1 on one of my old Intel PC's sitting around, I would probably buy it and do so but I am not buying a PPC system just to run it.
Amiga branded system, yeah that would be nice but I don't see it happening.
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I got the impression that AMiga inc was talking about CECT when it mentioned mobile phones. CECT was on the hunt for an OS when the strange email form McBill arrived.
As far as I could tell the Indian branch was never anything other than a way to launder money out of the country. People in the Indian IT industry I knew, including university instructors in Poona, had never heard of it.
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"Port OS 4 to Intel hardware and I'll happily order a copy the day it's released."
...whatever happens - there is someone who wants AOS on Intel. :-(
If this really happens, I'll be out and quit AmigaOS.
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Wow... Aros is really nice on a virtual machine via Parlells.. I can only imagine how cool OS 4 would be on native intel hardware. Fix Classic Workbench support add emulation. Nice..
Let just hope the Amiga curse doesn't make Hyperion go bonkers...
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Well that is another chapter closed, good to hear!
Hyperion can even support 68K OS3.x some, and get a few bucks out of that.
I know I might buy an update to 68k AOS...
Good luck Hyperion, you will need it and a few smart decisions!
Amiga Inc is going to disappear...
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"Port OS 4 to Intel hardware and I'll happily order a copy the day it's released."
...whatever happens - there is someone who wants AOS on Intel. :-(
If this really happens, I'll be out and quit AmigaOS.
You're just mad because you spent "A LOT OF MONEY" on a Sam board...
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xUd1Ew78OLI/Sfoe-jySceI/AAAAAAAABEc/Wc8RyouCyrw/s320/Mimado.jpg)
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@Editor,
...
The problem I see, and have always seen, is that regardless of who the "winner" of the lawsuit turned out to be, the OS is still absolutely worthless without three things. Cheap and fast commodity hardware, programmers and software.
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Hmmmmm - now they are free to support available and affordable High-End PPC hardware like this YDL PowerStation: http://www.fixstars.com/en/products/powerstation/specs.html
Prices: http://www.fixstars.com/en/products/powerstation/price.html
I'm sure once AmigaOS supported at least one core, the developers would be attracted to develop on this machine and to take advantage of the underlying power. I'd expect the development of more modern power apps and an OS development towards multicore capability and 64 bit architecture from that.
Now, that's simply not the case any more, and frankly, it'll be impossible to attract any real development base to any future OS platform *unless* Hyperion pull the stick out and port it to modern, cheap, commodity hardware (aka Intel)..
...
While I agree that it might be worth the effort to port the OS to Intel in the long term, it might be easier and less hassle (endianess) in the short term to support the box mentioned above with the current PPC OS and to modernize it there (as mentioned above). That should attract the "development base" you mentioned.
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I feel there is some information missing about the agreement. An agreement is normally made by two parties that find that they get some benefits from the agreement.
Maybe AI felt it as enough benefit that they were not sentenced because of the fraudulous transfer of IP from AI (W) to AI(D)...
Hyperion get the rights to the OS, but what did Amiga Inc get out of it?
The chance to get out of it without being sentenced?
Did Amiga Inc realize they were in deep sh*t, and just made the agreement to avoit a counter-lawsuit?
I would not say "a counter-lawsuit" - with this agreement they avoided being sentenced in THIS lawsuit (and obviously in all other pending, too).
And who is paying for the lawsuit anyway - lawyers are far away from cheep. Amiga is claimed by many to be near bankrupt, and I guess Hyperion havent been making to much money on OS4 sales to pay everything either..
That remains to be seen, I'd say...
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They are not partners. Not according to the Hyperion press release. Amiga, Inc. no longer owns or has rights to AmigaOS 4. Hyperion is the sole owner of AOS4. Just like Amiga, Inc. has or had, Hyperion now has unlimited rights to Amiga OS 3.1. Hyperion now has Amiga OS and is completely separated from any entanglemnet with Amiga, Inc. All Amiga, Inc. has is Amiga Anywhere and whatever other rights/ownership of previous Amiga OS versions. Amiga, Inc. previously mention and long in development Amiga OS 5 is sunk. At least under that name.
1. AI/Itec never owned OS4 Object/Source and that was the law suit of Itec's to gain Object/Source from Hyperion.
2. They already had access to 3.1 (and not 3.5/3.9), which means the IP they used (since they didn't use the source code) for OS4 is now locked to Hyperion.
3. Nor did Hyperion's announcement say they were no longer associated with AI. This is a settlement between two partners over a contract dispute, both sides had to give. That means AI got something out of this fails to mention what that was. Since I doubt Hyperion could afford significant payment to AI and they did change legal status, it does make one wonder if AI got shares out of Hyperion.
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Ok, it might be a little too soon to ask, but i'm still confused. Were dose this leave Amiga inc, bankrupt ? Out of Buisness ? Is Hyperion going to trash the Amiga cos there's no money in it anymore ? Will we have to pay for Winuae, or will they be threaten by legaality to cease continuing development due to breach of copyright or what ever excuse they might make up. All i can see is this is not over, and i would be very sceptical about what ever happens to the Amiga.
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@Editor,
I have no qualms about selling the Web site, regardless of what obsolete and unobtainable hardware Hyperion choose to port the OS to. I'm not even quite sure I'd care if they ported it to an off-the-shelf, current, Intel Mac to be honest.
The problem I see, and have always seen, is that regardless of who the "winner" of the lawsuit turned out to be, the OS is still absolutely worthless without three things. Cheap and fast commodity hardware, programmers and software.
This is 2009, soon to be 2010, and we are a far cry from the massive development community of 1987/88. Back in those days, there were far fewer choices for developers. Namely, there was Unix, PC running DOS, Mac, or the Amiga, and the specs on the Amiga were 10x any of the others at the time.
Now, that's simply not the case any more, and frankly, it'll be impossible to attract any real development base to any future OS platform *unless* Hyperion pull the stick out and port it to modern, cheap, commodity hardware (aka Intel)..
In regards to Hyperion and all this talk of porting, please keep in mind that they did NOT win the right to develop new hardware and/or call it an "Amiga". They simply -- apparently -- won the rights to AmigaOS 4.x... It would still be up to Amiga Inc (from what I understand as an armchair lawyer) to develop any hardware to match the OS if you want some new machine to be labeled an "Amiga".
edit: back to the point though... I'm at a point in my life (unemployed without prospects, and quickly approaching bankruptcy) where -- even if Hyperion does port it to something top-shelf, I can't guarantee I'll be interested. As such, better the site goes to a new team with fresh eyes and a more dedicated heart than for me to keep passively participating.
Wayne
Sorry OT I know, did you ever announce who bought the site and I missed it?
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Count me in as one of those who would pay $$$ immediately for an x86 version of OS4.
I just hope hyperion has the resources to actually do something special.
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Clearly you don't understand the difference between civil and criminal law....
Maybe AI felt it as enough benefit that they were not sentenced because of the fraudulous transfer of IP from AI (W) to AI(D)...
The chance to get out of it without being sentenced?
I would not say "a counter-lawsuit" - with this agreement they avoided being sentenced in THIS lawsuit (and obviously in all other pending, too).
That remains to be seen, I'd say...
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Nothing has changed with Classic AmigaOS, it remains the property of Amiga Inc, UAE is fine, but if Hyperion wish to distribute ROM images and Classic OS versions they need to deal with Amiga Inc. The agreement appears to only cover code used from 3.1 not 3.1 itself.
Ok, it might be a little too soon to ask, but i'm still confused. Were dose this leave Amiga inc, bankrupt ? Out of Buisness ? Is Hyperion going to trash the Amiga cos there's no money in it anymore ? Will we have to pay for Winuae, or will they be threaten by legaality to cease continuing development due to breach of copyright or what ever excuse they might make up. All i can see is this is not over, and i would be very sceptical about what ever happens to the Amiga.
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Can somebody explain the significance of hyperions change CVBA. What does this mean ?
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It's a change in liability, if Hyperion goes bankrupt the creditors can no longer go after the assets of the Frieden Bros or anyone else who has a share of the company.
Can somebody explain the significance of hyperions change CVBA. What does this mean ?
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3. Nor did Hyperion's announcement say they were no longer associated with AI. This is a settlement between two partners over a contract dispute, both sides had to give. That means AI got something out of this fails to mention what that was. Since I doubt Hyperion could afford significant payment to AI and they did change legal status, it does make one wonder if AI got shares out of Hyperion.
http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=40591#forumpost40591
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@dammy
Let me check my AmiWest notes here...
Hyperion will continue development, commercialisation and distribution of AmigaOS 4.x and beyond including AmigaOS 5.x world-wide and without any restrictions of any kind. Hyperion has ensured that it can continue these activities even in the event of an Amiga Inc. bankruptcy, insolvency or restructuring.
Hyperion is the only party allowed to use the "AmigaOS" trademark, Amiga Inc. included. There will be no "AmigaOS 5" from Amiga Inc. nor any other Amiga "operating system".
Amiga Inc. abandons all claims on the AmigaOS 4.x intellectual property and will refrain from any interference with the development and distribution of AmigaOS 4.x and beyond.
Personally, I think it would be best if we all stopped playing armchair lawyer and looking for ways to fail. AmigaOS is back in the hands of somebody who cares. It is time to stop speculating about what could go wrong and start thinking about all the things that could go right. AmigaKit still has a few boards left if you'd like to join us. Otherwise, get out of the way because there is nothing holding us back now. 8-)
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It's a change in liability, if Hyperion goes bankrupt the creditors can no longer go after the assets of the Frieden Bros or anyone else who has a share of the company.
Thanks
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I hate to say it, but I don't see what real difference any of this is likely to make. Hyperion's position has never wavered and Amiga Inc have in truth never been more than a flea-like parasitic annoyance (though often used to justify decisions Hyperion made themselves along the way).
AmigaOS will never again be developed for cheap, readily available hardware and as a result it will never attract a significant user base. This in turn means not enough developers will be available to develop the quality of software that would entice users to buy an obscure and expensive system just to get access to the software.
It's a reverse chicken and egg situation - here there are no more eggs and the last hen died years ago. What we're witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.
I have no doubt that Hyperion care passionately about what they do, nor that they have proved themselves far more productive than Amiga Inc ever were, but when it comes to showing wisdom and foresight they've been as blind as a naked mole rat.
I speak as someone who would like to take an active interest in AmigaOS again, but who simply can't afford the stupid levels of expenditure such an exercise requires (and has required for some considerable time now). I'd need to be comfortably rich or professionally motivated to spend that sort of money and that's a negative on both counts.
That's not likely to change just as nothing has really changed on the Amiga scene for years. Avé! Duci novo, similis duci seneci! (as Terry Pratchett might put it)
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Oh, ye of little faith, Bill... :D
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Either way it will be interesting to watch. I see at as progress or at least a nice change.
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It's good news for Hyperion, I s'pose but what have they won?
I'm in the same boat as bhoggett and wayne here, even with this news it's hard for me to be enthusiastic about AmigaOS in 2009-10 apart from some residual sense of nostalgic fondness or familiarity for the name and the GUI conventions.
A platform is only as useful as its applications and modern AOS can't begin to attract the quality of software development that the average computer user has become accustomed to over the last 10-15 years using Windows, MacOS and even Linux.
AOS has a niche as a hobby platform among Amiga enthusiasts, but that doesn't seem to be a sustainable market for a business such as Hyperion to thrive in, long term. So eventually they will have to concede, taking future OS development with them.
Of all the Amiga-ish flavours I would guess AROS might eke out some future being open and hardware agnostic, but even that will have trouble being anything more than a novelty/hobby platform.
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Oh, ye of little faith, Bill... :D
Yes Ed, I'm aware of the irony of my Amiga.org rank, but I'm way too long in the tooth for faith. Nothing much ever changes around here.
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Actually Bill (being serious for a moment) I was poking fun at those who might think Hyperion is our savior. I actually think much the same as you. That said, I'm not against letting Hyperion try. As I often like to phrase it: "I'm crossing my fingers, but I ain't holdin' my breath."
Of course, as I mentioned before, as long as Hyperion is fixated on PPC, I won't even bother crossing my fingers...
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Actually Bill (being serious for a moment) I was poking fun at those who might think Hyperion is our savior. I actually think much the same as you. That said, I'm not against letting Hyperion try. As I often like to phrase it: "I'm crossing my fingers, but I ain't holdin' my breath."
Of course, as I mentioned before, as long as Hyperion is fixated on PPC, I won't even bother crossing my fingers...
If I was convinced Hyperion were trying, I'd be more enthusiastic. I rather get the feeling that they're happy with their decisions and plan to carry on regardless - judging from the OS4 roadmap news we're hearing.
I would have thought that enabling as many people as possible to experience the platform, try it out and maybe get interested enough to contribute would have been of the highest priority in the near future, but it seems to me the target is to continue on the same path followed for years and sink what few development resources exist into other obscure low-volume hardware platforms only a few handful of people will ever see. Great for the wannabe engineers who want to hone their skills in building custom hardware, but at the end of the day completely irrelevant to everyone else except the small fanatical following already desperate to waste their money on the next oddball project to come along.
I have never been able to work out what Hyperion's business plan is. You'd expect either a push to popularise the platform or a small, dedicated and above all profitable market they are happy to exploit - but in reality they have neither and no sign of a change of strategy on the horizon.
I followed a random link to another site and noticed someone welcoming the news and saying all they wanted now was a decent browser, java, a proper office suite and Flash support and they'd be happy to give it a go. The reply was something along the lines of "Why not ask for the moon while you're at it? You should lower your expectations." ...which to me epitomises everything that is wrong with the scene and why this latest legal development is unlikely to make any difference at all.
As you, I will continue watching, but no more than that. (Unless I win the lottery of course, but for that I'd have to play...)
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That Hyperion are talking about bringing USB 2.0 support to OS4 just as the rest of the computer industry is moving to USB 3.0 speaks volumes.
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@ bhoggett
But as you know, it isn't just Hyperion. MorphOS appears to be much in the same boat. To me, it's another example of the so-called Amiga curse. What made the Amiga such a great piece of hardware was the drive to get it right, which ran them 7 million over budget and eventually into the arms of Commodore. Now we got both professional Amiga camps demonstrating that same stubbornness... but how they arrive at the conclusion that PPC is the right course is, in fact, a mystery to me.
You're right, of course, the best business plan is the one that earns them the most money. But they remind me of someone trying to sell top-quality lemonade for 500$ a glass and is left wondering why no one is enjoying the drink.
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Accord to Hyperion's website they have an exclusive license to the name AmigaOS. Meaning that the name AmigaOS still belongs to Amiga Inc, so Amiga Inc being the owner of the name could conceivably still produce an AmigaOS and they still own Classic AmigaOS.
But realistically this is a tiny market, a few thousand people, which Amiga Inc has pissed off, so there's really no incentive for them to even think of producing their own AmigaOS, but there would be some opportunity for them to produce classic machines in partnership with someone like NatAmi.
@dammy
Let me check my AmiWest notes here...
Hyperion will continue development, commercialisation and distribution of AmigaOS 4.x and beyond including AmigaOS 5.x world-wide and without any restrictions of any kind. Hyperion has ensured that it can continue these activities even in the event of an Amiga Inc. bankruptcy, insolvency or restructuring.
Hyperion is the only party allowed to use the "AmigaOS" trademark, Amiga Inc. included. There will be no "AmigaOS 5" from Amiga Inc. nor any other Amiga "operating system".
Amiga Inc. abandons all claims on the AmigaOS 4.x intellectual property and will refrain from any interference with the development and distribution of AmigaOS 4.x and beyond.
Personally, I think it would be best if we all stopped playing armchair lawyer and looking for ways to fail. AmigaOS is back in the hands of somebody who cares. It is time to stop speculating about what could go wrong and start thinking about all the things that could go right. AmigaKit still has a few boards left if you'd like to join us. Otherwise, get out of the way because there is nothing holding us back now. 8-)
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@bhoggett
When I entered the Amiga World it was because it was on the bleeding edge, that edge is so far away now that it is an unreachable goal, so why bother, Hyperion have a market that wants on a few changes, a retro OS that can use more modern hardware and one in which they can do a few modernish things, that's a doable thing. That appears to be Hyperions target.
And that market doesn't care about price, they'll pay what it takes.
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@bhoggett
When I entered the Amiga World it was because it was on the bleeding edge, that edge is so far away now that it is an unreachable goal, so why bother, Hyperion have a market that wants on a few changes, a retro OS that can use more modern hardware and one in which they can do a few modernish things, that's a doable thing. That appears to be Hyperions target.
And that market doesn't care about price, they'll pay what it takes.
Sure, but is it a 'market'? Do sales even cover the cost of development? I seriously doubt it.
Not that it matters. I agree that Hyperion are only interested in the people already committed to their strategy, which is exactly why the rest of us are going to read the above news and just go "Meh". It makes no difference to us because we know Hyperion will do nothing to make the platform more accessible.
With Amiga Inc., AmigaOS would have been in the hands of a company incapable of doing anything progressive. With Hyperion, it is in the hands of a company unwilling to do anything progressive - at least going by their track record so far.
Accord to Hyperion's website they have an exclusive license to the name AmigaOS. Meaning that the name AmigaOS still belongs to Amiga Inc, so Amiga Inc being the owner of the name could conceivably still produce an AmigaOS and they still own Classic AmigaOS.
Actually, the exclusive part of that license means Amiga Inc cannot produce their own version of AmigaOS unless that licensing agreement is terminated. We are not party to the terms and conditions of the deal, so it would be a matter of speculation as to what could legally constitute a reason to terminate the agreement. Hyperion don't own the brand or the name, but they are the only ones who can produce AmigaOS.
Obviously this would not affect existing licensing agreements, such as the one under which Cloanto distribute the Classic AmigaOS.
@EDanaII
Yes, MorphOS is in the same boat, but they are unaffected by this story.
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Classic Amiga OS is unaffected by this agreement, Hyperion never owed it and never pretended to own it. It remains in the hands of Amiga Inc. The only right Hyperion won to Classic Amiga OS was the right to use code from 3.1 that it used to produce 4. AmigaOS 4 and Classic AmigaOS belong to different companies.
It would be interesting to actually read the document that was signed to understand what exclusive means in this instance. Remember it's lawyers writing the agreement, not people with common sense. The exclusive does mean that Amiga Inc can't license another third party, but whether they can produce anything named AmigaOS in their own right would have to be found in the agreement itself.
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What we're witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.
LOL that`s got to be the best quote i`ve ever heard on A.org :-)
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I want to buy and install OS5 on an intel box.
OS to be booted and usable in 10 Seconds
Internet Browsing on a supported browser
Store my Photos
Play music
And that's about it. If it was out, and it did it now. I would buy it in a flash.
Gertsy
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Added it to my signature!
LOL that`s got to be the best quote i`ve ever heard on A.org :-)
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@Wayne
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I really couldn't say what Amiga are doing for money.
Launder it?
I strongly suspect AInc's main purpose was to serve as money laundring machine or tax-depletion-model for Pentti's doubious money transactions.
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It makes me wonder why they don't get it together
Incompetence or an indication that they never intended to really be a productive company.
and become the games/apps portal for Android phones-Amiga did actually invent the iPhone app store concept, if the execution (and to be fair, the technology and vision on the part of 'partner' companies) was lacking.
LoL!
I've never been interested phonies and never will...
All I want is a powerfull desktop or tower!
One of the biggest complaints about non-iPhone OSes and the equipment that they run on, is no centralized app store.
So you really like the idea having to pay each time you - lets say - write an e-mail on your phonie?
Or having to pay each time you want to play mp3s on it?
Or ...
Once again Amiga invents it,
All they ever invented was how to rip 50 € for fraudulous coupon schemes from Amigans and loads hollow marketing fluff.
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I go off on this cel phone tangent because Amiga themselves supposedly went off on it several years ago. Supposedly they had a crew of East Indian programmers working on whatever it was they were/are working on. if their AA concept could work seamlessly with one executable on RIM devices as well as on Android, they'd be sitting on fat stacks of cash pretty quickly.
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Just annother indication that they never intended to produce anything tangible...
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I want to buy and install OS5 on an intel box.
OS to be booted and usable in 10 Seconds
Internet Browsing on a supported browser
Store my Photos
Play music
And that's about it. If it was out, and it did it now. I would buy it in a flash.
Gertsy
Me too!!
Internet browsing, e-mail & newsgroup clients.
Store AND edit photos
Play & import music ala an interface similar to iTunes
Run the occasional database or calendar app
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Amiga Development India is actually in Pune, which most people would consider central India. So you really should have said "Supposedly they had a crew of Central Indian programmers working on whatever it was they were/are working on."
Just for the geographically minded....
@Wayne sorry to hear about your troubles :-( I'm not exactly sitting on fat stacks of cash either at the moment. The United States economy is pretty much failing-all the money's at the top and staying there.
I really couldn't say what Amiga are doing for money. Apparently, not selling OS4. It makes me wonder why they don't get it together and become the games/apps portal for Android phones-Amiga did actually invent the iPhone app store concept, if the execution (and to be fair, the technology and vision on the part of 'partner' companies) was lacking.
One of the biggest complaints about non-iPhone OSes and the equipment that they run on, is no centralized app store. Once again Amiga invents it, then Apple comes out with it five years later and acts like they thought of it :-/
I go off on this cel phone tangent because Amiga themselves supposedly went off on it several years ago. Supposedly they had a crew of East Indian programmers working on whatever it was they were/are working on. if their AA concept could work seamlessly with one executable on RIM devices as well as on Android, they'd be sitting on fat stacks of cash pretty quickly.
Sadly, I kinda doubt they have the gumption to get this done. But I'd happily be proven wrong..