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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: tormedhammaren on November 07, 2003, 11:38:25 AM
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I've bought an A4000 that seems to be not perfectly healthy. It's modded to use an ATX psu and placed in
a tower (very elegantly done). The machine worked after the first owner had modded it and then one day...
First some specs:
A4000D (modded to use full tower with ATX psu)
Kick 3.1
WarpEngine 4040
AmigaNet Z2
Spectrum 24
mark: The tabs on the WarpEngine's ram sockets are broken - so I must mechanicaly strap the SIMMs to them.
Now I've got some problems with it. I'll describe them, and maybe someone have got any clues:
- If I switch the machine on without floppy, keyorboard, hdd or mouse - the cpu fan spins up
else no sign of life (no video, Caps Lock light, ...).
- If I switch the machine on with floppy, keyboard and mouse - the cpu fan spins up, a black screen
comes to sight, the Caps Lock light works. It seems that it's the floppy that's critical for this to happen
compared to the one over. But the black screen wont disapear. If I CTRL-A-A, the machine cold boots
just like my other A4000, but the black screen remains.
I don't know if the WarpEngine detects or uses my SIMMs since I've got a ram socket tab problem.
What will happen if you boot an A4000/WarpEngine with no fast mem?
What does the black screen that doesn't go away mean?
Why is there no video display when booting if there's no floppy installed?
Any clues?
I've tried solutions on online hardware docs but the problem remains. And, the solution in the
WarpEngine manual is: "Check the computer and monitor power cables"...
Regards
Tor
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- If I switch the machine on with floppy, keyboard and mouse - the cpu fan spins up, a black screen
comes to sight, the Caps Lock light works.
Try pressing a couple of times -for 5/10 secs- the Caps Lock, and notice if the light gets blocked on the on-off state (not changing/modifying its state by repetitive pressing).
What does the black screen that doesn't go away mean?
Why is there no video display when booting if there's no floppy installed?
What monitor do you have? A standard VGA goes "out of scan range" by default on turning on the AMiGA (until the devs/monitors get loaded).
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Try pressing a couple of times -for 5/10 secs- the Caps Lock, and notice if the light gets blocked on the on-off state (not changing/modifying its state by repetitive pressing).
I will try that when I get back home. Currently no internet access there. What does it mean if it gets
blocked?
What monitor do you have? A standard VGA goes "out of scan range" by default on turning on the AMiGA (until the devs/monitors get loaded).
Oh, I should have stated it. I tested this on a standard PAL TV since I don't have any Amiga
monitors any more. Got a flicker fixer on my other A4000.
Regards
Tor
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I will try that when I get back home. Currently no internet access there. What does it mean if it gets blocked
That the system is really dead! You might notice certain system-locks when your mouse or everything on screen has freezed, BUT your TCP/IP stack may be functional (ping responce), and the Caps Lock blinks if you press it (typical when you have low mem, chip particularly).
Turning on the amiga with a black screen might be an early fault (can't do the system check -the normal greys on screen, or the red/green/blue/yellow error codes- ).
-Check the CPU board (that is well seated on the CPU slot).
-Check the ROMS (if they're missing or burnt you get a black screen, same as above -CPU- ).
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That the system is really dead! You might notice certain system-locks when your mouse or everything on screen has freezed, BUT your TCP/IP stack may be functional (ping responce), and the Caps Lock blinks if you press it (typical when you have low mem, chip particularly).
Turning on the amiga with a black screen might be an early fault (can't do the system check -the normal greys on screen, or the red/green/blue/yellow error codes- ).
-Check the CPU board (that is well seated on the CPU slot).
-Check the ROMS (if they're missing or burnt you get a black screen, same as above -CPU- ).
I will try that. But I did press the Caps Lock some times yesterday, and something like that happened -
the Caps Lock wouldn't lite any more... I rebooted, and it would.
The CPU board is well seated and the ROMs are there and they look ok.
What I think is weird is that there's no video if the floppy isn't connected. Is that normal?
Will the kick ROM image show if there's no fast mem on the A4000 cpu card? (I'm not sure that the
SIMMs get detected since I have this mechanical problem on my WarpEngine)?
ps: I could maybe create another thread: "Mechanical problem in Amiga 4000" or "Mechanical problem in my WarpEngine"? :-)
What if the psu doesn't supply enough amps to the mother board and/or it supplys it at the wrong
voltage. Could that be the case?
Thanks for the quick response by the way!
Regards
Tor
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One more note: The "Early startup menu" wont show up when pressing both mouse buttons at startup.
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Yeap, it's dead!
Caps Lock blocked, no error-codes on boot (even the rom won't check itself), no "early startup menu".
Sorry I don't have a Warp-card (I had a standard A3640). Might be the RAM modules on the card?!. Check some info on this (if it can be started without ram: es. the CSPPC won't boot without 1 pair of simm at least!).
Suspects: (from the least serious damage)
-RAM
-ROM
-CPU card
(from the most highly probable order)
-CPU card (when not fitted well always gives a black non-responsive screen when you turn on the AMiGA).
-ROM (won't do the self-check procedure on boot)
-RAM (see the CSPPC example, I don't know for the Warp card)
The PSU might be also, but in low voltage you wouldn't have the caps lock ligth blink even for once.
I think it's the 5V for the mobo power, the 12V for the HDs etc. You have nothing to lose if you check the power output with a tester (you said that it's not the original PSU...)
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Well, I also have an towerised A4000 with a WarpEngine 040 board, and I have the same problems... My tower is a Micronik 4000 ISA tower though (find more info on www.amiga-hardware.com).
If I take out all kind of expansions out of the computer, so all that's is left is the cpu card, keyboard and the floppy, then the computer won't boot. To get it to boot I have to do the following...
1. Turn off the computer and then insert the floppy power cable the other way around and then power up.
2. The diskdrive LED is turned on all the time, because the cable has been inserted incorrectly. I then turn off the computer again.
3. I reassemble the diskdrive cable correctly once again, and when I power up the computer the purple screen usually pops up.
I have no clue what causes this, and I don't spend much time on solving this problem becuase of all the other computers that also take my time :-) But in the near future I will sit down and trace this ####ing bug. Something tells me that it's the floppy drive that's the problem though.
Please keep me informed if you get any progress. I will do that to of course.
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édoctorq
i agree with you for the floppy drive.
Or the floppy drive is gone, or its flat-cable is plugged in the reverse way.
Check the PSU>mobo connector too.(unstable contacts).
Ciao
PS- if you try to boot with a damaged floppy drive (or its cable), the system hangup.
If you boot the system w/out the floppy drive connected. . .the same.
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Black screen on a 4000 usually means no CPU found, or the bottom of the motherboard is shorting out on the case. At least that's what I've come to learn -- it's handy having a pile of accelerators here to test units with.
If you don't have a 4000cr motherboard with the 030 already on it, I'd try booting it with a plain old 030 accelerator board installed to see if it works. That way you could at least eliminate the 040 board as the issue.
If you don't have one, I have around 40 of the things in a box here (all tested and working) and could send you one for cheap. If you're interested the cost to ship it to Norway by small packet is (US) $5 surface (up to 4 weeks) or $8.50 air (usually there in under 2 weeks). I have no clue what one of these boards would be worth, make an offer or maybe pick one up off eBay from me or somebody else.
Failing that, Amiga France (amiga.fr) has repaired A4000 motherboards for me in the past, they're reliable and do really nice work (most times you can't even tell which parts they've replaced unless you check with a magnifying glass). You might want to send your motherboard to them. On average it's been 100E to fix an A4000 motherboard through them.
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@Tor
Silly question, but have you checked the Chip Ram SIMM? (assuming it`s the version of the A4000 that doesn`t have it soldered on..it`ll be the SIMM socket closest to the Zorro riser)..it won`t boot without any.
Also, check the jumpers match the SIMM..can`t remember what they should be set to..my A4000 manuals is in a box somewhere !
Have you tried to boot it with the Spectrum and AmigaNet cards removed??
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@Cass:
Someone told me that the kickstart disk will show even when there's no fastmem on the WarpEngine. The manual doesn't say anything about this.
That's right, this is an ATX psu. I will test the voltages with my multimeter this evening!
@doctorq:
In my case the computer wont give any video if there isn't any floppy connected (it doesn't matter if the floppy controller cable is connected right/wrong). I'll test the system with a floppy that I know works tonight. The floppy I've tested with gives out a beep (of the pc-speaker type..) when the machine is switched on. Framiga's response explains why my machine wont boot without a floppy. Thanks!
@Jagabot:
No 030 on my card, but I have ha Cyberstorm MKI 040 in my other A4000. I don't know if I dare putting it in - a little afraid to destroy old hardware. I'll give you a note if I'm interested in one of the 4000cr mobo's. I'll have to error seek a bit more. But thanks for the offer!
@Doobrey:
Mr. Chip Ram resides in his 45 degree angle on the mobo ram socket. I think I'll check important jumper settings on my card. Thanks for the tip! The machine behaves the same way with or without the AmigaNet and the Spectrum. Thanks for good responses, guys!
Regards,
Tor
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After pulling my machine entirely apart last night and putting it all together, it looks like neither the CPU card nor the ROM is
broken. I also threw out the Zorro cards and put in a floppy drive that I knew was working.
What happens is that when I switch on my machine the power LED brightens up after about half a second, the CAPS
lock light works the way it should (no freeze after 10 events) and the floppy starts to tick after some time. If I then insert the
Workbench disk, Workbench loads from the disk. This means that the CPU card and the ROM are working.
But - the machine still gives out just a black screen. I've got a video --> scart cable connected to the "RGB port". I've
tested the cable with another machine - so I am certain that it works. What can be the reason for an A4000 giving just a black screen when the machine (CPU card, ROM, floppy controller, chip RAM) is working and programs are loading?
Regards,
Tor
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@ tormedhammaren
if i've understood well, you can see all those activity thanks to the GFX card , , right? if you are be able to see a program loading!
So it is normal that when there is in use a GFX card, you have a black screen on the Amiga RGB output.
Let me know if i've understood :-)
Ciao
PS-check if in the DEVS:Monitor, there is a driver Spectrum related (remove it for testings)
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@Framiga:
This is beginning to be a thread with lots of specs and info making it easy to misunderstand. :-) The problem is that I can't see any video output (I've pulled out the Spectrum). And I am just trying to get normal PAL display from the "RGB port" but there is just a black screen. There is no hd in the machine at the moment.
Regards,
Tor
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@ tormedhammaren
check anyway your boot disk (it should been modded from the previous owner).
Check in the floppy Devs:Monitor, wich driver is present. (if it empty, should boot anyway from the kickstart PAL monitor).
If those floppy was modded, probably the Screenmode preference, should be wrong too.
Not an easy situation :-(
Ciao
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@Framiga:
Not even the purple screen with the workbench disk beeing inserted is shown. So i supose there is a malfunction in the hardware. But the machine is working (the OS loads).
Not an easy situation :-(
Luckily I haven't paid yet, and wont do it either if I can't fix the machine.
Regards,
Tor
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As harsh as this sounds, pull every card. Lets get back to the basic motherboard with a floppy drive.
Does that work? Then add to it. Your pounding to death a theory without really knowing if the motherboard is really at fault, or the Warp card.
Also, take the monitor off the video card for now. That will by-pass the card (for now).
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What happens is that when I switch on my machine the power LED brightens up after about half a second, the CAPS
lock light works the way it should (no freeze after 10 events) and the floppy starts to tick after some time. If I then insert the
Workbench disk, Workbench loads from the disk. This means that the CPU card and the ROM are working.
Nice, it's perfectly working!
But - the machine still gives out just a black screen. I've got a video --> scart cable connected to the "RGB port". I've
tested the cable with another machine - so I am certain that it works.
Could have been the monitor definitions (devs:monitors/) to redirect the video-out to the card, but since you don't see any "early-startup-menu", that means you have an RGB out problem.
- Check the pins on the RGB-out plug (AMiGA)
- Check the plug on the mobo side, and the first electronic components between LISA and RGB-out plug (resistors, capacitors, motherboard traces).
If here was a custom chip fault, you could not boot and the CapsLock is blocked with no floppy ticks.
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@Amiga4k:
I have allready pulled out every card. Just sitting on the basic mother board with a floppy drive. I have stated this before :-)
@Cass:
Could have been the monitor definitions (devs:monitors/) to redirect the video-out to the card, but since you don't see any "early-startup-menu", that means you have an RGB out problem.
- Check the pins on the RGB-out plug (AMiGA)
- Check the plug on the mobo side, and the first electronic components between LISA and RGB-out plug (resistors, capacitors, motherboard traces).
If here was a custom chip fault, you could not boot and the CapsLock is blocked with no floppy ticks.
I will check these things. Can I test resistors, motherboard traces and capacitors with a multimeter?
Regards,
Tor
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@tormedhammaren:
Are you 100% sure that the TV in question can handle a RGB-signal?
/Patrik
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Can I test resistors, motherboard traces and capacitors with a multimeter?
Well, a simple inspection firstly will do (note any strangely-blacked component, disrupted traces etc.)
As for the tester, any electronic component should be tested by itself not in a circuity. That means much work, done by a specialist....
A simple thing to do is to test only suspected faulty:
- resistors (should give infinite resistance if burnt), if inplace may give any value (altered by the circuity).
- capacitors (should give an infinite value in case they're faulty), if normal they peak a 0 Ohm resistance that increases to infinite in short time.
- mobo traces should give 0 Ohm values if tested between 2 direct points (not any resistor/capacitor/IC between the tester leads).
Check the RGB-out plug and its pins to the mobo first, and then move proximaly to the mobo components
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