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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Speelgoedmannetje on November 07, 2003, 12:07:43 AM

Title: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on November 07, 2003, 12:07:43 AM
On the Amiga.com forum existed far less hatred against each other then here

(oh webmaster(s), it is not "forums" it's "fora" since it is a latin word)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Cyberus on November 07, 2003, 12:20:16 AM
edit: I was wrong!

The debate is though, whether the word becomes part of the language that adopts it. I (personally) think its a bit anally retentive to look at the endings in the original language. I mean, should we really go around saying viri instead of viruses?

edit again: Am I just feeding a troll here while people sit back and watch?:-(
 
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: carls on November 07, 2003, 12:37:07 AM
According to Merriam Webster (www.m-w.com) both "forums" and "fora" are correct.

 ;-)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: downix on November 07, 2003, 12:37:55 AM
I've seen the same logic applied to a KKK rally.
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Cyberus on November 07, 2003, 12:44:50 AM
:lol:
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: mikeymike on November 07, 2003, 01:22:07 AM
Quote
I've seen the same logic applied to a KKK rally.

I think people here need to think how to phrase their comments.  Likening most people to anything like the KKK is only going to really annoy them.

You may be trying to get a point across, and you may think that achieves maximum effect, but your point is lost completely when it is easily taken as offensive/insulting.

We all go over the top at one time or another in arguments, but try to think along these lines as much as possible.
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Wain on November 07, 2003, 01:28:37 AM
@cyberus


ummm, when talking about the biological, we DO use the term virii.

Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: KapitanKlystron on November 07, 2003, 01:52:02 AM
Actually viruses is the correct plural for virus.
Dictionary .com entry (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/v/virus.html)
 :-D
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: redrumloa on November 07, 2003, 02:22:17 AM
-Edited by me- Maybe i didn't get the point right the first time :-?
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: that_punk_guy on November 07, 2003, 02:25:02 AM
I don't get this thread....

 :-?

:-(
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: RedWarrior on November 07, 2003, 02:30:55 AM
Dictionary.com need not be considered an authority on the English language.

Just because microsoft (and Amiga, and apple... all those American computer companies) infect the world with bastardised English spell-checkers (otherwise known as American English) does not make incorrect spelling correct.

Colour. Theatre. Metre. Fibre. Centre. These words are defiled every day.

If we all agree to communicate via grunts and gestures are we really honouring language?

The spreading infection of american spelling started out of pure spite for the British and a lack of understanding with regard to the evolution of words about 400 years ago.

That being said... is there a patch I can run on my OS that will fix all these poorly spelt words?

;) RW.





Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: T_Bone on November 07, 2003, 02:32:45 AM
me neither, I think it's probably spillover from another thread I must've missed.
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: MarkTime on November 07, 2003, 03:43:49 AM
Oh good, a language thread...

these kinds of threads are fairly frequent, and I understand that they become tiresome, however, I like them.  I've always been a fan of language.

Language is an artform, even in countries where there are official standards, languages that are in active use evolve, and the bigger thing, is the meaning of a phrase, is more in the head of the listener, than the person speaking....

Anyway, MarkTime says 'forum' is correct.  It's the word most understood, and if your goal is to be understood, use that word.

Beyond using words people have half of chance of understanding, you also have to carefully pick your point.  

And finally, look a bird.

Sorry, that was all for me. :-)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: AmigaHeretic on November 07, 2003, 03:49:26 AM
Quote
Just because microsoft (and Amiga, and apple... all those American computer companies) infect the world with bastardised English spell-checkers (otherwise known as American English) does not make incorrect spelling correct.

Colour. Theatre. Metre. Fibre. Centre. These words are defiled every day.



Color, Theater, Meter, Fiber, Center are not misspelings of those words.  That's how they are spelled in a languauge that has different rules than yours.

Thats like saying that El color, el Teatro, el Metro, la Fibra, Central are misspelled.  They're just the same words in a different language.
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: MarkTime on November 07, 2003, 03:57:28 AM
Hey RedWarrior, you may be interested to know, that the default spellchecker we got installed on an internally developed app where I work, was the UK version...we caught it just before going into production.

that's one for the Queen, I guess.

Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: KapitanKlystron on November 07, 2003, 04:01:35 AM
@ RedWarrior:

That's right! You are correct and everyone else is wrong or is that wroung.  Continue to use words incorrectly.

P.S. I feel the same way about Australian slang that you feel about good english words (color,fiber, etc...) :-o
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Wain on November 07, 2003, 05:44:39 AM
In America there is a usage distinction between theatre and theater.  The latter shows movies (Kino), and the former shows live performance.  I have no idea how this reads in the dictionary, but the word is always 'theatre' in a performing arts establishment.
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Wain on November 07, 2003, 05:50:28 AM
Quote

Actually viruses is the correct plural for virus.


My medical dictionary says otherwise, but it's a bit old.

Interesting...I wonder when this was changed.  
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Marky_D_Sahd on November 07, 2003, 07:32:19 AM
I know what you mean.  I have Wordworth on my Amiga, and I had to teach it to spell!  It kept insisting that "learned" was spelled "learnt", and "spelled" was spelled "spelt," which, as we all know, is a violation of the rule for regular past tense verbs.

Also, it keeped (damn!  I just knew I was going to wander into the only American exception to the regular past tense verb rule) changing the word ""semi" to "lorrie,"  "trunk" to "Boot," "hood" to "Bonnet" and switched the keyboard preferences so that all the heavy-traffic keys were on the other side of the board!   :-D
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: aardvark on November 07, 2003, 07:48:31 AM
Well, I'm a Canadian, eh.  And neither the American spellcheckers or the English spellcheckers work right.  Here it's colour, labour,neighbour, but tire (not tyre),meter (pass the volt meter), metre ( it was a metre long).  Then with plurals you have cactus, cacti; hippopotimus, hippopotimi; apple pus, apple pie :-D
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Methuselas on November 07, 2003, 08:19:38 AM
Quote
Just because microsoft (and Amiga, and apple... all those American computer companies) infect the world with bastardised English spell-checkers (otherwise known as American English) does not make incorrect spelling correct.


Actually, most spellings such as these were changed years ago, 1776 to be exact, in rebellion to 'Queen's English' and to show the American Colonies independence from England. That's why we spell it 'realize', instead of 'realise'. You may think it's bullocks (or as we might say here, bullsh!t), but considering the time and how sh!tty England treated the American colonies, it's no wonder they rebelled in such a way that Americans did.

To gripe about spelling is ignorant, 'cos its common knowledge that english is a language created from butchered words from other languages already spoken. German and latin seem to come to mind.  :-P

In fact, that's almost as ignorant as an American telling a Native American to 'go back where he came from.'

Sheesh.....they're just words...get over it.

 :-(  
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Cyberus on November 07, 2003, 09:58:04 AM
@ Methuselas

I think its YOU that's displaying the ignorance. For a start, when America rebelled, England had a king. Therefore the US, would've been rebelling against King's English, if such a term existed then, which I doubt very much.

Secondly, the revising of English spelling (in the US) has been attributed to Noah Webster, and to a lesser degree, Mark Twain (although I gather this can still be debated).  Also, don't forget spelling was non-standardized, and only became so when people decided to write dictionaries (even in print it is inconsistent - writers like Shakespeare spelled words many different ways).

The us of z in standardize, realize etc is perfectly good British English spelling. Many people use s instead, but the older z variation is acceptable (I tend to use it because I prefer it). The suggestion that people in the US used different spellings as a form of rebellion is just ridiculous.
It is far more likely they use them because scholars like Webster believed them to be superfluous. The reason that the Us exist in such words as colour is due to the fact that they came in to English from French cf couleur, for example.

English is not created from 'butchered' words. English is a rich hotch-potch of languages. That is why we have such a large vocabulary (in fact, I believe it is the largest vocabulary in the world). The biggest contributors to the pot are Gaelic, Latin, Norse, French, Old English (which is one of the West Germanic languages, like Dutch, modern German, Frisian etc), the old Scandanavian languages (which are now Danish and Swedish, Icelandic, Faroese etc). We also have more recent influences, from languages such as Urdu, Hindustani, Punjabi etc

I think you just wanted to use your post to attack the British posters in this forum, rather than have some kind of discussion about language.
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Cyberus on November 07, 2003, 10:09:45 AM
Back to the original topic, both spellings of plurals are acceptable. I just think that to argue that we must used 'fora' 'because its Latin' is ridiculous IMO.

Are we to decline nouns if they have roots in languages with cases? Are we to conjugate verbs that have been imported in to English, just because they do in the original language?

Language is a constantly evolving phenomenon - it 'belongs' to nobody. I get sick of people saying that the Americans can't spell words properly. English does not belong to the English people! It's spoken by  between 320 and 380 million people worldwide as a first language, 150-300 million as a second or significant language (in India, Pakistan, Hong Kong, Singapore etc), and by a rough estimate of 100 million to a billion as a language that people know to a small extent. [These figures are estimates taken from Harmer, the Practice of English Language Teaching]

One of the prices British people must pay for English being a global language is that it isn't ours anymore - its everybody's.




Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: JaXanim on November 07, 2003, 01:10:50 PM
'The way he speaks is quite different than you and I'

Who thinks this is OK?
Who thinks it is not OK?

JaX
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: mikeymike on November 07, 2003, 01:41:41 PM
Quote
Color, Theater, Meter, Fiber, Center are not misspelings of those words. That's how they are spelled in a languauge that has different rules than yours.

You spelt "language" wrong :-D

If I ever write an autobiography*, there'll be a section about language.  Under "pointless language variations because one nation 'wanted to be different' from one of its ancestors"...

* - but then my autobiography might be a bit unsual with a "technical reference" :-)

Quote
To gripe about spelling is ignorant, 'cos its common knowledge that english is a language created from butchered words from other languages already spoken. German and latin seem to come to mind.

Any sensible language nicks words from others.  Otherwise you end up with this stupid business that the French.gov are up to of "trying to preserve their language" and insisting that people/media use their stupid french variations of words that have become standard the world over.  We say restaurant, even with the French pronunciation.  We have done for a long time.  Nobody moans about it.  Get over it.
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Cyberus on November 07, 2003, 02:04:03 PM
Quote

JaXanim wrote:
'The way he speaks is quite different than you and I'

Who thinks this is OK?
Who thinks it is not OK?

JaX


I think this is not OK
'than' is used in comparative sentences
[comparative adjectives are better, bigger, more intelligent, smaller etc]
So my computer is better than your computer (for example) is acceptable

'Quite different':
Different is not a comparative adjective here, so cannot be used with 'than'

Sorry, now I'm being anally retentive - but it is my job after all!
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: stuart on November 07, 2003, 02:21:11 PM
Well I just couldn't resist commenting on this thread... I can relate to most of what's been said in this thread.

:ranting: There is a difference between spoken and written language, people become protective of the words that are written because it represents who they are and what they are about, it contains meaning for them and when it changes they feel as though they have lost something of themselves. On the other hand language evolves all the time and dictionaries are being revised constantly. There are also different emphasis put upon words and meanings depending on who you are; for example if you are a doctor, there are strong rules you must follw when writing because accuracy is important or someone could not heal or even die if mistakes are made in interpereting someones work engineers speak in numbers, poets speak a language many of us cannot understand! Artists speak in pictures or even some other way. And then there are other languages completely, like Japanese, Arabic, Slang etc - I think you get my point.

My point is that this all comes down to communication, and someone said it already... The point is to be understood.

:rtfm: I love dictionaries, they contain word meanings and without them we couldn'y communicate in a sophisticated way, people are right to defend them, but it's a balencing act, like most things in life.

:idea: Has anyone mention grammar yet? :pint:
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Cyberus on November 07, 2003, 02:34:52 PM
Quote
My point is that this all comes down to communication, and someone said it already... The point is to be understood.


hear hear! I agree
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: JaXanim on November 07, 2003, 03:01:50 PM
Yes, provided the speaker and the listener understand each other explicitely, that's all any spoken language requires. The written word is different.

It's interesting that while the BBC for example, allows its broadcasters to switch the subjective 'I' and objective 'me' with impunity, it's written English is superb. I think those of us with a 'traditional' English education accept most bastardisations of the spoken word as normal and acceptable, but one or two do tend to gripe, with me anyway.

My personal pet hate is, I'm afraid, an Americanism. As noted above, the use of 'than' instead of 'from' is quite appalling. How something can be 'different than' something else suggests a complete ignorance of the basic tongue. I have never, ever, heard the term 'different from' spoken by an American. I guess it is down to education. So do American schools teach 'English' or American English'?

JaX

Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Cyberus on November 07, 2003, 03:23:17 PM
Careful Jax - generalising (or is it generalizing ;-))

I used to live with an American, and I'm sure she said 'different from' and 'different to'...
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: JaXanim on November 07, 2003, 03:30:24 PM
@Cyberus

'different from'....'similar to'

'different to'  .... QED!

JaX
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: mikeymike on November 07, 2003, 03:44:30 PM
Quote
My point is that this all comes down to communication, and someone said it already... The point is to be understood.

To a certain extent I disagree, but here's an example of how I disagree.

Someone makes a remark intended to be funny over a text-based medium.  If they misspell something, most of the humour is lost in it, because people need to first think about what they meant to say, then add it all up together in their brain, and then "oh".  Not funny.

Misppelling leads to an impression of lack of education, or someone being thick (because, much of the time it is!  think about the most brainless/immature arguments you've heard, one of the factors you remember is very likely to be poor spelling, and/or use of caps/swearwords etc).  Their argument, even if it is an extremely well-communicated (otherwise) argument, and a good/valid one, is likely to be treated differently, because over the Internet there is little to go on to gauge the person's intellect.  That can lead to the response being worded differently, possibly condescending, etc.

And if you say "well, it shouldn't lead to that, that's the other person's fault", it's the original poster's fault in the first place for not bothering to spell correctly.  We're talking most people here, not people who have real difficulties such as genuine dyslexia.

I think I can get the spelling and grammar correctly, but what I used to do is use a word processor to just check a single word quickly, start it up, type word in, hit spell check.  Recently I bought a piece of dictionary software to help me more.  Spelling, grammar and punctuation makes a huge difference in an educated/technical discussion.
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on November 07, 2003, 03:46:27 PM
Quote

MarkTime wrote:
Oh good, a language thread...

these kinds of threads are fairly frequent, and I understand that they become tiresome, however, I like them.  I've always been a fan of language.

Language is an artform, even in countries where there are official standards, languages that are in active use evolve, and the bigger thing, is the meaning of a phrase, is more in the head of the listener, than the person speaking....

Anyway, MarkTime says 'forum' is correct.  It's the word most understood, and if your goal is to be understood, use that word.

Beyond using words people have half of chance of understanding, you also have to carefully pick your point.  

And finally, look a bird.

Sorry, that was all for me. :-)


My thread was not to intend to bad language u
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on November 07, 2003, 03:50:55 PM
I mean, my thread was not about bad language, it was about occasionaly bad behaviour on this forum, insulting each other or things like that.
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Cyberus on November 07, 2003, 04:32:58 PM
@ Jax

Michael Swan - Practical English Usage,2nd Ed, Oxford
p150

Quote

158 different

   1  Modifiers
   
   2  Prepositions

       From is generally used after different; many          
       British people also use to. In American English,  
       than is common.
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: stuart on November 07, 2003, 04:41:24 PM
Quote
MikeyMike wrote: Misppelling leads to an impression of lack of education,
 :lol:

I agree with what you say about impressions mikeymike, but only to a certain extent, when typing something into a forum, I write without too much regard to spelling and grammar except where my point needs to be carefully expressed because I don't want to be missunderstood.

People will take what they want from what they read, when it comes to this kind of net forum, the more effort you put into making yourself clear (by using correct spelling and grammar - from you're local dictionaries and customary rules) the easier they CAN understand what you are saying, but communication is ALWAYS ( I cannot think of an example when it's not) a two way street, it takes one person to express and another to understand, then communication was successful.

Quote
mikeymike wrote: I think I can get the spelling and grammar correctly,
one of my points is; "what is correct?" British english has it's methods and a style of it's own, so does American and so does Australian etc etc etc, so who say's what's right? the person writing the words makes that descision, if it's sloppy, then that's just what it is, again, the person who is reading it will decide how they react to that sloppiness...or humor, or whatever...

The point of all communication is to understand each other, it exists in between all of us.  :nervous:  :crazy:  :-D
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: vortexau on November 07, 2003, 04:48:17 PM
(http://www.prewarbuick.com/b3320e60.jpg)

"Set a spell!  Take yer shoes off.  Y'all come back, y'hear?"

Quote
An enduring image in The Beverly Hillbillies was their time-honored vehicle -- a 1922 or '23 flatbed truck.  That opening vignette showed them arriving in Southern California: "they loaded up the truck and moved to Beverly;  Hills, that is."  The Clampetts continued to drive it around town, this unapologetic symbol of their strong-willed independence and immunity to social pressures or the scorn of snobbish neighbors.

The truck?  it's an Oldsmobile.

(http://www.prewarbuick.com/6304b990.jpg)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: stuart on November 07, 2003, 04:48:55 PM
Quote

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
I mean, my thread was not about bad language, it was about occasionaly bad behaviour on this forum, insulting each other or things like that.


I have noticed some bad behaviour here sometimes too, occasional 'my country is better than your country kind of stuff, but it's a great forum, I read it a lot but don't post too often, on the whole though, it's pretty civilised compared some other forums I have read!  :shocked:
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Martyn on November 07, 2003, 04:53:04 PM
There was a series on ITV in the UK and few months ago called 'The Adventure of English' that was about this very subject.  I found it really facinating viewing.

The amount of words in modern english that have been taken from other langauges in quite staggering.

It has benefit's and drawbacks, the most obvious is how we use the same letters and letter groupings for many different pronounciations.  This is because they originated from other languages and the spelling and pronounciation have remained.

The advantage though (tho? thow?), is that english has a huge vocabulary (as Cyberus stated earlier), that doesn't just present itself with many synonyms for one word - but each of these word has a slightly different meaning.  It makes English a very descriptive language.

I love this subject, if anyone else is interested have a look here (http://www.krysstal.com/english.html) for some really good examples.

Or do a google for 'english' and 'etymology'.

Martyn.

ps Anyone notice the new english verb i used at the end of the post? :-)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: mikeymike on November 07, 2003, 04:55:42 PM
Quote
I agree with what you say about impressions mikeymike, but only to a certain extent, when typing something into a forum, I write without too much regard to spelling and grammar except where my point needs to be carefully expressed because I don't want to be missunderstood.

I just find it easier to apply a reasonably high level of concentration most of the time, then when it really matters, pay even more attention to it.
Quote
one of my points is; "what is correct?" British english has it's methods and a style of it's own, so does American and so does Australian etc etc etc, so who say's what's right? the person writing the words makes that descision, if it's sloppy, then that's just what it is, again, the person who is reading it will decide how they react to that sloppiness...or humor, or whatever...

Americanisms annoy me, I'll admit that outright.  By "Americanisms" I mean words that have been turned into American spelling for no apparent reason than to flip the bird at the British.  Otherwise, I think that if you're British, you should use British English, and if you're American, American English.  I don't let my annoyance for Americanisms lead me to the point of correcting Americans on the use of American English :-)
Quote
The point of all communication is to understand each other, it exists in between all of us.

I think that is a very complex and subtle subject, as I think most people who are experienced in communicating with people they don't know over the Internet will agree.

- edit - my wording can be poor sometimes, just look at that last sentence :-) -
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on November 07, 2003, 05:00:43 PM
@stuart
It is indeed not that much, but sometimes there are  nasty stings wich make me uneasy. I do mind if people say their country is better then the rest or that country stinks. I think/hope they are making fun out of that.
But it's the accusing,
I hope people will reconsider before they accuse each other for this or that.

but anyway, cheers matey!
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Kees on November 07, 2003, 05:03:06 PM
@Speelgoedmannetje

Can i say 'Groningen RULES !!' and 'Er gaat niets boven Groningen !!' ?   :-)  :-)  :-)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on November 07, 2003, 05:09:56 PM
Quote


Americanisms annoy me, I'll admit that outright.  By "Americanisms" I mean words that have been turned into American spelling for no apparent reason than to flip the bird at the British.  Otherwise, I think that if you're British, you should use British English, and if you're American, American English.  I don't let my annoyance for Americanisms lead me to the point of correcting Americans on the use of American English :-)


Annoying is bad, and mainly bad for yourself. So don't bother and respect the Americans and their language.
They are a sovereign country with their own language that happens to be similar to native English.
When an Irishman or Scot speaks everyone think its all too authentic but it is the same case as the American's
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: mikeymike on November 07, 2003, 05:14:57 PM
Quote
Annoying is bad, and mainly bad for yourself. So don't bother and respect the Americans and their language.

If I didn't respect that choice, I would be openly correcting people on American English use in forums :-)

 - edit - having said that, the quirks of the English language as to, for example, when 'ize' instead of 'ise' should be used, it's very weird, and differs between dictionaries.  Typically American English uses 'ize', and British 'ise', but it swaps around seemingly at random.  I've never worked out a solid rule of thumb of knowing which to use.

- edit 2 - the only time I've ever corrected spelling/punctuation/grammar on amiga.org is in this thread, IIRC (and pretty sure).

Quote
When an Irishman or Scot speaks everyone think its all too authentic but it is the same case as the American's

I'm not sure what you mean.  You're saying that some people think that Irish/Scottish people "put on" their quirks to the language for the sake of it?
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on November 07, 2003, 05:19:19 PM
"Er gaat niets boven Groningen!" translated: "there is nothing that goes above/beats Groningen"

The romans (Was it Tacitus?) really described it as the end of the world, because when they were there, it was misty, and the sea had the same color as the sky.
But indeed, Groningen is a real fine place to live, much things to do in the city, pubs that are 24 hours a day open (well, the wrong ones) and things like that.
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on November 07, 2003, 05:23:17 PM
@mikeymike
Sorry I misread your post

here have one  :pint:
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: stuart on November 07, 2003, 05:43:00 PM
Quote
mikeymike wrote: I think that is a very complex and subtle subject, as I think most people who are experienced in communicating with people they don't know over the Internet will agree.

Indeed.  :-) As a moderator you would be particularly aware of it.

I prefer British english spelling and grammar myself because thats where the Australian version stemmed from. Americanisms are annoying sometimes but they do make a lot of sense when you think about it, like dropping letters that you cannot hear when you say it, like colour VS color - I've a soft spot for the British ways first.

As all the world's people mix together more, languages are going to mix together as well.

Yo bro, wassup?! carn ya unnerstan wot im sayin? U wannanuva beer guvna? cheers mate.   :pint:  We all understand beer don't we?

PS that's any drink of choice for those that are abstaining from alcohol.  ;-)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: stuart on November 07, 2003, 05:53:05 PM
@Speelgoedmannetje

It might help people who say other countries stink if they realised that we all love our countries and don't really need some ignorant person trying to start a fight, or perhaps stumbling into trouble. Although some people like to wrestle and fight, I'm glad you mentioned it, it started a great thread!

Cheers buddy!  :pint:
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: sir_inferno on November 07, 2003, 05:53:14 PM
curse those blasted octopi  :-D

nice plural word :-)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: mikeymike on November 07, 2003, 05:53:25 PM
Quote
We all understand beer don't we?

The wonder of the not-so-modern age.  :-)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: stuart on November 07, 2003, 06:03:47 PM
octopusses...octopi is better IMHO

@sir_inferno
Professor X is cool, funny, cheers mate!   :pint: - boy I'm getting cyber-pissed tonight!
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: stuart on November 07, 2003, 06:08:38 PM
 :pint:  :pint:  :pint: Actually I'm sober!
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Methuselas on November 07, 2003, 06:13:36 PM
Quote
I think you just wanted to use your post to attack the British posters in this forum, rather than have some kind of discussion about language


Cyberus, why one earth would I want to do that, when my mother was born is Sompting, W. Sssx?? ;-) I still have family that lives is Brighton.

As for my 'Queen's English' statement, is it NOT a common phrase to refer to is as 'Queen's English' nowadays??!??

I wasn't getting defensive or anything like that. I am VERY proud of my English, Irish and Native American Heritage, but I am EQUALLY as proud of being born an American.

What I don't like is when people b!tch and complain, let alone moan about a language that has become an international standard. I live in Texas and most of the hispanics here will feign ignorance to the language, but then talk sh!t about people in spanish, thinking people don't know.

I haven't even finished reading all the posts, but yours currently, takes precedences. If I have offended you, that was not my intentions. I grew up using the 'Queen's' version of english, 'cos of my Mum and was persecuted by my American teachers for it.  ;-)

But, if I did offend you, you have my sincerest apologies, but I was attempting to make a valid point. I don't condemn non-native speakers for misspelling a word, but when they tell me, a native speaker, that I am wrong or imply that I am, I get offended.

C'mon chap, we'll have a guinness and make the world merry.


[EDIT] -For the record, Cyberus, I can speak quite of bit of Spanish, French, a smattering of German, some Cherokee, not to mention Mandarin. Trust me, I'm the LAST person to complain about grammar. I get corrected all the time for the misuse of tones in chinese and usually reply with 'xiexie, ni!' <----'Thank you'.

:pint: one for me....

:pint: and one for you.

 :-D
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: sir_inferno on November 07, 2003, 06:25:21 PM
Quote
Professor X is cool, funny, cheers mate!


cheers  :-D  :pint:  heh heh this is some drinking parlour
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Cyberus on November 07, 2003, 06:26:00 PM
@ Methuselas

I apologize - I must have misunderstood you
I've given up both smoking and drinking within the space of two weeks and I'm VERY tetchy and stressed at the moment, not that that's any excuse....
I do have a habit of getting offended at things when they aren't meant to offend. I must admit I feel like a bit of an ass now  :-o .
I'll join you in a virtual pint ;-) :pint: Cheers!

Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Methuselas on November 07, 2003, 06:31:55 PM
HAHAHAHAHA I gave up smoking a month ago.  :-D  Good habit to break. I haven't had a splif in a month, either.

Sigh..I don't know if I could give up me Guinness though, Mate.

Must me the English and Irish in me. :roflmao:

[EDIT]


Quote
I must admit I feel like a bit of an ass now  .


Oh, and wouldn't that be 'arse'??!??

Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Cyberus on November 07, 2003, 06:39:03 PM
I thought you might pick that up...

No, ass!
As in the thing with the droopy ears and the hooves  ;-)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Methuselas on November 07, 2003, 06:43:50 PM
Quote
As in the thing with the droopy ears and the hooves



HAHAHAHAHAHA Are you sure you're not talking about Rush Limbaugh?
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Methuselas on November 07, 2003, 06:45:51 PM
@Cyberus

Oh, I'll forgive you, if you make BBC put Red Dwarf back on. I'm SO pissed they never released the movie. :-?
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: JetRacer on November 07, 2003, 06:58:20 PM
W4ddY4 m34N? M3 L337 h4x0r!!! N3v4 s33n a VV0rz Tr0LL.

Nah, just kidding :-)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: seer on November 07, 2003, 07:07:38 PM
Can i say 'Groningen RULES !!' and 'Er gaat niets boven Groningen !!' ?  

Utrech' ! Utrech' !  ;-)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: sir_inferno on November 07, 2003, 07:28:11 PM
Quote
Can i say 'Groningen RULES !!' and 'Er gaat niets boven Groningen !!' ?


ummmmmmmmm, no

 :-)



anyway...several things which annoy me about english variations, mainly "american"

1.)Americans refuse to accept that american is a changed version of the original english  :-D
2.)Americans spell things wrong: tyre (tire), colour (color: that's why you have to use html tags) and gaol (jail) although i don't know anyone who uses gaol  :-)
3.)Americans are like germans, they take any word, and make it into a verb (in german it's good, in english, it's not  :-) )
e.g.
Flight AA56501 is currently "De-planing"

I MEAN COME ON  :-D

i rest my case  :-P

Please note:
I am not racist, i hate all people, irrelevant of other issues.
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: JaXanim on November 07, 2003, 09:21:59 PM
Ee by gum, this thread's a real education innit!

(West Yorkshire anyone?)

JaX
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Methuselas on November 07, 2003, 09:57:29 PM
@ Sir Inferno

Quote
anyway...several things which annoy me about english variations, mainly "american"


Oh, don't EVEN get me started. I grew up having to hear 'youse guys' up north and in the decade I've lived in Texas, I've had to contend with 'fixin', 'y'all', 'duoooeatyut' (I'm assuming that's short for 'did you eat yet') and my all time favorite, 'nekkid' instead of 'naked'. *Shudders* :-o

Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: bloodline on November 07, 2003, 10:08:28 PM
Quote

Kees wrote:
@Speelgoedmannetje

Can i say 'Groningen RULES !!' and 'Er gaat niets boven Groningen !!' ?   :-)  :-)  :-)


Isn't that the creator of the Simpsons? :-D
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: bloodline on November 07, 2003, 10:19:20 PM
I know I'm a bit late joining this thread... but I just want to add that regadless of bad grammer, poor spelling (I'm very guilty of that), doesn't any one think it's brilliant that so many nations are able to communicate?

I come here and we all speak, basicly something that approximates to English, and we can share ideas and generally share our felings on a subject... If that isn't brilliant I don't know what is!!!

While I feel a strong affinity for the British way of spelling and grammer (my poor Canadian Girl Friend has to put up with my constant correction of her grammer), I really don't mind how people word things or spell things, as long as they managed to get their message across.

Communication is probably the greatest thing that we have, and I'm proud to come here and be able to communicate to people from different cultures and countries.
I want to Raise a Glass to them, and thank them for using English how ever they use it, because it has allowed me to extend my view of the world (despite my ignorance).

Go on then:
 :pint:

 :-)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on November 07, 2003, 10:27:38 PM

1.)Americans refuse to accept that american is a changed version of the original english  :-D
2.)Americans spell things wrong: tyre (tire), colour (color: that's why you have to use html tags) and gaol (jail) although i don't know anyone who uses gaol  :-)
3.)Americans are like germans, they take any word, and make it into a verb (in german it's good, in english, it's not  :-) )
e.g.
Flight AA56501 is currently "De-planing"

I MEAN COME ON  :-D

i rest my case  :-P

Please note:
I am not racist, i hate all people, irrelevant of other issues.[/quote]

Americans speak Amerikan, not English
South Afrikan speak South Afikan, not Dutch

Apartheid for instance
And if you hate all people, how can you survive? (tell me plz)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Methuselas on November 07, 2003, 10:35:18 PM
Quote
my poor Canadian Girl Friend has to put up with my constant correction of her grammer


Yeah, I'd hate to have to remove the 'eh' at the end of every sentence too.  ;-)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Waccoon on November 07, 2003, 10:47:47 PM
Quote
The spreading infection of american spelling started out of pure spite for the British and a lack of understanding with regard to the evolution of words about 400 years ago.

I'm American, and my English teacher actually took points off my essays for using British spelling.

- "It's the British way of spelling!"
- "But it's still WRONG!"
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on November 07, 2003, 11:14:46 PM
Quote

seer wrote:
Can i say 'Groningen RULES !!' and 'Er gaat niets boven Groningen !!' ?  

Utrech' ! Utrech' !  ;-)


Utrecht is a fine city indeed, probably the only one besides Groningen
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: sir_inferno on November 07, 2003, 11:29:01 PM
Quote
Isn't that the creator of the Simpsons?


only on halloween specials  :-D





yey #150  :-)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: JaXanim on November 07, 2003, 11:31:34 PM
@Waccoon

That's very interesting and answers my earlier question about teaching 'English' in America. It confirms that 'English' is not what I think it is, i.e. the way I speak, but a universal language. 'English' is modified within countries in much the same way as local accents modify the local language.

The ultimate outcome of this evolution, is that the world will use dialects of one or two prime languages. Logically, it may well become a competition between 'English' and 'Chinese' as to where this evolution will end up.

Blimey!

JaX

Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on November 07, 2003, 11:32:00 PM
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

Kees wrote:
@Speelgoedmannetje

Can i say 'Groningen RULES !!' and 'Er gaat niets boven Groningen !!' ?   :-)  :-)  :-)


Isn't that the creator of the Simpsons? :-D


Wich/who of this is the creator of the Simpsons?
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: EpyxWork on November 08, 2003, 12:15:36 AM
Hmm lets see language contribution to English as we know it would look something like (only including major contributors):


Over 4000 years ago:
Ancient Neolithic Languages (can only guess what remains if anything)

4000BCE - 50AD
Celtic Language

50AD - 400AD
Celtic/Roman Latin

400AD - 1066AD
Celtic/Church Latin/Various Germanic Tongues spoken by invading german tribes

1067AD - 1776AD
Celtic/Latin/Germanic/French/Greek

1776+

Local contributions from the commonwealth and former colonies including but not limited to: Canada, USA, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand etc...

End result one of the most flexible languages in existence and as a result the most universally accepted language for business, trade and diplomacy.
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Cyberus on November 08, 2003, 06:22:30 AM
@ Epyx

Or we could just say that all the European languages are related anyway (well, apart from the Finno-Ugric or Altaic languages) :-)

----------------

I don't see why some people, like sir_inferno, feel the need to get people's backs up anyway. I love languages, they are one of my passions. I love the nuances of each language! Far from wanting to get involved in petty squabbles about which is better, I'd rather just learn more languages. In fact, I should spend more time doing that than posting on here!

I am currently trying to teach myself Dutch and Estonian, I learned Russian at university, French and Latin at school, a very good friend of mine teaches me bits of Lithuanian when we get together in London for a drink (bah, non-alcoholic now of course)  and I can tell you, the impression I get of languages is that they are like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle - the more pieces you have the easier it is to see the picture...  
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: EpyxWork on November 08, 2003, 07:10:45 AM
@cyberus

Agreed, I share the same feeling about languages. Something that should be embraced not ridiculed.
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: sir_inferno on November 08, 2003, 09:51:38 AM
@cyberus

Quote
I am currently trying to teach myself Dutch and Estonian, I learned Russian at university, French and Latin at school, a very good friend of mine teaches me bits of Lithuanian when we get together in London for a drink (bah, non-alcoholic now of course) and I can tell you, the impression I get of languages is that they are like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle - the more pieces you have the easier it is to see the picture...


***NO COMMENT NO QUOTATION ZONE***

i don't ridicule languages, just i don't like it when there are veriations which weren't meant to be there... And when people say they speak english, but they really speak "australian" or "american"

***NO COMMENT NO QUOTATION ZONE***

 :-D
anwyay, i only learn languages if i need to...
Like if i'm going to spend five years in germany, i'll learn german, but anyway...this topic is now thouroughly dry  :-)
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: Cyberus on November 08, 2003, 09:55:16 AM
edit: Removed something which was unnecessarily rude. However it wasn't as quoted below - what I said was in Italian
Title: Re: behaviour (bad)
Post by: sir_inferno on November 08, 2003, 09:59:53 AM
Quote
bah, you go to hell


fek off  :-D