Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Tension on October 09, 2009, 06:48:39 PM
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It`s not just me, is it?
Downloaded Pirates Of Silicon Valley the other day. Good show, but not a single mention of CBM or the Amiga. Also, this film backs up the famous theory that "There is nothing nasty about Bill Gates, and nothing nice about Steve Jobs."
Also, watched Micro Men on BBC Four yesterday. One of the guys from Acorn Computer actually said "We need to keep advertising like IBM and Commodore". Weren't Commodore almost infamous for not advertising? Again, no mention about the Amiga, even though they did really well in the UK.
Has there ever been a credible documentary made about computing (including the Amiga)?
Deathbed Vigil doesn't count :)
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IMHO that's just the way history is done on everything, a lot of details and facts just vanish...
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It`s not just me, is it?
Downloaded Pirates Of Silicon Valley the other day. Good show, but not a single mention of CBM or the Amiga. Also, this film backs up the famous theory that "There is nothing nasty about Bill Gates, and nothing nice about Steve Jobs."
Also, watched Micro Men on BBC Four yesterday. One of the guys from Acorn Computer actually said "We need to keep advertising like IBM and Commodore". Weren't Commodore almost infamous for not advertising? Again, no mention about the Amiga, even though they did really well in the UK.
Has there ever been a credible documentary made about computing (including the Amiga)?
Deathbed Vigil doesn't count :)
Commodore did a great job advertising initially back when all it took was to run some simple ads on TV and print saying look, here's a Commodore 64 with 64K of memory, color graphics, sound and all this software for what under $600 and here is our competitors with less memory, green screens for thousands.
Then came more sophisticated marketing of the maturing computer market and Commodore didn't even bother to continue it's look how much more powerful and less expensive our machines are advertising.
Instead they shifted to limited advertising and using artsy ads to sell Amiga.
But you are 100% correct. In all but a few cases Commodore and Amiga have been wiped from computer history or only quickly mentioned as an early pioneer. I guess I'm biased but I personally think that a lot of what we can do today on computers was influenced by Commodore and many of it's computer models. I think historically, there should be more mention of it's influence.
Of course, "On the Edge" made me cry so what else can I say.
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It would've been hard to put Commodore management in the "Pirates" story, as while Jobs and Gates were calculating and succeeding and competing with each other, Commodore was just blundering left and right and shuffling leaders like playing cards. Maybe they could do a comedy...
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I hope you pirated it!
It`s not just me, is it?
Downloaded Pirates Of Silicon Valley the other day. Good show, but not a single mention of CBM or the Amiga. Also, this film backs up the famous theory that "There is nothing nasty about Bill Gates, and nothing nice about Steve Jobs."
Also, watched Micro Men on BBC Four yesterday. One of the guys from Acorn Computer actually said "We need to keep advertising like IBM and Commodore". Weren't Commodore almost infamous for not advertising? Again, no mention about the Amiga, even though they did really well in the UK.
Has there ever been a credible documentary made about computing (including the Amiga)?
Deathbed Vigil doesn't count :)
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Absofeckingtootley!!
I hope you pirated it!
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The otherwise very entertaining "Triump of the Nerds" documentary about the creation and evolution of home computers doesn't even mention Commodore or the Amiga at all, which is pretty blasphemous IMO. Always wondered why Commodore often seems to be forgotten (or purposely left out) in some "historical" accounts, because they were definitely at the forefront of the home computer revolution of the 80's.. To me Commodore is undeniably linked to making available affordable home computing in the 80's. "Computers for the masses, not the classes" to quote Jack. But hey, I'm probably preaching to the choir here. ;)
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Perhaps someone should make a documentary about the fight between Commodore and Atari, the Jack Tramiel defection and all that banter.
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Well, as far as I know, Commodore left advertising up to it's different areas. Check out you tube.. Commodore commercials are different for each regional area..
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Kind of like world history, the victors get to write it.
Good observation in general. I am more into "the scene" and there was very little mention of the Commodore 64 / Amiga systems in BBS: The Documentary (http://www.bbsdocumentary.com/) and we all know that Amiga BBS systems were the "fastest" in the world for most of the early to mid 90's. Confused a lot of people (http://blackroses.textfiles.com/piracy/manifest.-7), but that is the way it was.
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Well, as far as I know, Commodore left advertising up to it's different areas. Check out you tube.. Commodore commercials are different for each regional area..
You are right, Commodore did leave its advertising up to the different regions. As a result, Jack shifted products to where they sold the most. Earliest example was the PET. Jack also charged more in Europe than in the US, And when the PET was selling like wildfire in the UK, he shipped nearly all of them out there. There was a time when you could not find a PET in the US, even thought they were made there.
That is also why products like the Colt and Commodore PC were made and sold in Germany, or the A500+ and A600 had such a small and limited release in North America ( I don't even think any A500+'s were released)- Because Commodore's strongest markets were Germany and the UK. Here in Canada, for example, I don't think the "high end PETS" (or "B Series" ) was ever sold here. All we had were the original Iron pets. The C116 was sold only in Germany. The US couldn't market Commodore at all, the only successful North American Campaigns were done by Kit Spenser when he was brought over form the UK office.
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Also, watched Micro Men on BBC Four yesterday. One of the guys from Acorn Computer actually said "We need to keep advertising like IBM and Commodore". Weren't Commodore almost infamous for not advertising? Again, no mention about the Amiga, even though they did really well in the UK.
Has there ever been a credible documentary made about computing (including the Amiga)?
Micro Men wasn't about the Amiga and wasn't even about 80s computers really - it was about Chris and Clive. Hence it missed out the sale of Sinclair computers to Amstrad, missed out the cancelled Loki, had nothing about the Archimedes etc. Also it only went up to about 1986 so the Amiga wouldn't have got a look in regardless.
You're right though - I've seen many computer history documentaries, in the rare event that they do mention the Amiga, they seem to miss out the Spectrum! It's as if the two are mutually exclusive and cannot be seen in the same programme. Some docs focus on consoles after a point and bypass the Amiga that way, others skip straight to the PC (which as we know is far inferior to the Amiga available at that time). It's shocking how little coverage it gets - I'd have thought at the very least, the competition and crossover between Commodore and Atari would make an interesting segment, if not an entire show. The Amiga was very popular and a lot of games developers and even current games series started there.
It's a shame but I suppose as it isn't British it doesn't deserve a mention, even though none of the computers or consoles that came after were British either.
Chris
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You will find a load of video snippets of adverts and articles in programmes about the Amiga on YouTube. I have a number of videos about the Amiga and Commodore. They are about, its just been a few years now.... This video is a classic given that its talks to all the creators of the Amiga. [ link below ]
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/amiga/media/a227_media07.jpg
scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com
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Not seen "Pirates" but I get the impression it was more about making a good film than properly documenting the facts. It's been a very long time since I saw "Triumph of the Nerds" but I do remember being very shocked at Commodore's absence. There was really no excuse in this case.
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It`s not just me, is it?
Downloaded Pirates Of Silicon Valley the other day. Good show, but not a single mention of CBM or the Amiga. Also, this film backs up the famous theory that "There is nothing nasty about Bill Gates, and nothing nice about Steve Jobs."
Also, watched Micro Men on BBC Four yesterday. One of the guys from Acorn Computer actually said "We need to keep advertising like IBM and Commodore". Weren't Commodore almost infamous for not advertising? Again, no mention about the Amiga, even though they did really well in the UK.
Has there ever been a credible documentary made about computing (including the Amiga)?
Deathbed Vigil doesn't count :)
Well Commodore did advertise, but they did it in places that didnt help get new users on the system or share it outside of the circle of people using them. Whats the point if putting huge ads in Amiga publications? Things like that.
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it's more complicated than merely being avoid
many amiga users are creative people that used the Amiga as the art tool it is and then continued their careers with new tools. What they retained was that 'Amiga way' of working. And THAT requires a different documentary. I've always felt the Amiga needs it's own documentary to tell the whole story
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Well Commodore did advertise, but they did it in places that didnt help get new users on the system or share it outside of the circle of people using them. Whats the point if putting huge ads in Amiga publications? Things like that.
Some where in my stacks of National Geographics, there is a full page ad for the A1000. When and If I can find it, I'll scan and post it up.
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commodore's ads in the US were colossally stupid - the only thing I ever saw approaching "good" advertising was a four page spread in Time magazine that showcased BB King, Richard Jarvik, aaannnnnd...now I can't remember who else, but they basically did little blurbs about how indispensable the Amiga was to them - they reminded me a lot of Macintosh ads of the day.
The TV commercials, however, were execrable. Search for them on Youtube if you don't believe me.
In the overall C= didn't advertise the Amiga because one, I don't think they knew what to do with it and two, I think all they'd wanted in the first place was a way to leverage themselves against Atari (remember, Tramiel had just jumped ship in 1984) and siphon off potential ST sales, which it did admirably, at least here in the States. I knew exactly two guys with STs but a liberal amount of Amiga users.
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Perhaps someone should make a documentary about the fight between Commodore and Atari, the Jack Tramiel defection and all that banter.
Actually, we've been clearing up that whole mess as of late, just did a presentation at ECCC on it in fact. Lot of missinformation about that period out there, and presented by RJ.
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I think all they'd wanted in the first place was a way to leverage themselves against Atari (remember, Tramiel had just jumped ship in 1984)
Jack didn't buy Atari Consumer until early July though. Commodore began negotiations with Amiga in early June.
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Actually, we've been clearing up that whole mess as of late, just did a presentation at ECCC on it in fact. Lot of missinformation about that period out there, and presented by RJ.
Yeah?? Is there anyway I can see this presentation as i`d love to find out more...
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Yeah?? Is there anyway I can see this presentation as i`d love to find out more...
Sure, acutally Bohuš was there to record it and should be putting it up at retrothing.com (http://www.retrothing.com)this week (at least that's what he just emailed me).
Some points that were addressed:
1) The deal between Amiga and Atari was with Warner Atari Inc., not with Jack's later Atari Corp. Jack never lent money as is often claimed, or offered a 98 cent stock purchase. Amiga began talks with Warner Communications during the fall of '83, agreed to a partnership at the January '84 CES, and had entered in to contract with Atari Inc. in early March of '84 with a $500,000 bridge loan, another million to be delivered at the signing of the licensing agreement that June, and an agreement for Atari Inc. to purchase 1 million shares at $3 a share, as well as payments for chip and later royalties on licensing. Development went across the entire spring on the project (named Mickey) all the way up to the pcb's being ordered and the team just waiting for the chips to be delivered.
2) There was no "pay back the loan or Atari gets the company" or pay back within a month, etc. The bridge loan was simply that - an initial payment as a signing bonus to help them with sorely needed seed money. It was given in early March. The reality is Amiga found they simply needed more money, didn't feel they were going to get enough through the Atari deal, so they actively began looking for more investors and a way out of the contract towards the end of Spring. Along came Commodore, they began meetings in early June, agreed to invest around $75 million, and gave them the $500,000 to pay back the bridge loan which they did at the end of June, lying and stating they couldn't get the chips to work and signing with Commodore the very same day.
3) The ST was never going to be based around Amiga techology, nor was it rushed to the market because of a lost deal. Jack knew nothing about the previous Wartner/Atari Inc./Amiga deal when he bought Atari Consumer on July 3rd., simply for it's manufacturing, distribution, and brand recognition. In fact there was a whole slew of 68000 and other advanced systems in development at Atari Inc. (which I also covered) that he was not interested in. Some of the Mickey team that wound up surviving the cuts and stayed on in other capacities even tried to broach the subject of the advanced projects with him and he wasn't interested. He already had the ST planned out and using the NS32032. In the mean time Commodore filed theft of property and trade secrets suits against Shiraz and the other engineers that had left for Jack in May, almost immediately after Jack announced the purchase of Atari Consumer. This included a temporary injunction against them doing any work for Jack on a new computer, which Commodore renewed several times over July. Towards the end of July while doing evaluations, Jack's son Leonard discovered the cashed $500,000 check (which I also showed), they investigated and found out about the previous deal. Like a gift horse they had Warner sign over the deal to him (it was not part of the original purchase) on Aug. 8th, and used it to hit Commodore back on Aug. 10th by going after Amiga for breach of contract (which they did). It was eventually settled out of court, and the suits against Shiraz et. al. were settled the following year. They switched to the 68000 in the interim because of supply issues with National, and wire wrapping for the ST (actually called RBP) began in early August and was completed by the beginning of Sept., with OS development starting then. The reason development was fast was because Commodore's initial suit had merit - Shiraz had mapped out a lot of it while still at Commodore that March and April and completed it that May and June (along with a line of new 8-bits being planned).
BTW, here's a copy of the original loan check to Amiga from Atari Inc.:
http://www.atarimuseum.com/computers/aed/Amiga-check-07MAR84-wm.jpg
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Sure, acutally Bohuš was there to record it and should be putting it up at retrothing.com (http://www.retrothing.com)this week (at least that's what he just emailed me).
Some points that were addressed:
1) The deal between Amiga and Atari was with Warner Atari Inc., not with Jack's later Atari Corp. Jack never lent money as is often claimed, or offered a 98 cent stock purchase. Amiga began talks with Warner Communications during the fall of '83, agreed to a partnership at the January '84 CES, and had entered in to contract with Atari Inc. in early March of '84 with a $500,000 bridge loan, another million to be delivered at the signing of the licensing agreement that June, and an agreement for Atari Inc. to purchase 1 million shares at $3 a share, as well as payments for chip and later royalties on licensing. Development went across the entire spring on the project (named Mickey) all the way up to the pcb's being ordered and the team just waiting for the chips to be delivered.
2) There was no "pay back the loan or Atari gets the company" or pay back within a month, etc. The bridge loan was simply that - an initial payment as a signing bonus to help them with sorely needed seed money. It was given in early March. The reality is Amiga found they simply needed more money, didn't feel they were going to get enough through the Atari deal, so they actively began looking for more investors and a way out of the contract towards the end of Spring. Along came Commodore, they began meetings in early June, agreed to invest around $75 million, and gave them the $500,000 to pay back the bridge loan which they did at the end of June, lying and stating they couldn't get the chips to work and signing with Commodore the very same day.
3) The ST was never going to be based around Amiga techology, nor was it rushed to the market because of a lost deal. Jack knew nothing about the previous Wartner/Atari Inc./Amiga deal when he bought Atari Consumer on July 3rd., simply for it's manufacturing, distribution, and brand recognition. In fact there was a whole slew of 68000 and other advanced systems in development at Atari Inc. (which I also covered) that he was not interested in. Some of the Mickey team that wound up surviving the cuts and stayed on in other capacities even tried to broach the subject of the advanced projects with him and he wasn't interested. He already had the ST planned out and using the NS32032. In the mean time Commodore filed theft of property and trade secrets suits against Shiraz and the other engineers that had left for Jack in May, almost immediately after Jack announced the purchase of Atari Consumer. This included a temporary injunction against them doing any work for Jack on a new computer, which Commodore renewed several times over July. Towards the end of July while doing evaluations, Jack's son Leonard discovered the cashed $500,000 check (which I also showed), they investigated and found out about the previous deal. Like a gift horse they had Warner sign over the deal to him (it was not part of the original purchase) on Aug. 8th, and used it to hit Commodore back on Aug. 10th by going after Amiga for breach of contract (which they did). It was eventually settled out of court, and the suits against Shiraz et. al. were settled the following year. They switched to the 68000 in the interim because of supply issues with National, and wire wrapping for the ST (actually called RBP) began in early August and was completed by the beginning of Sept., with OS development starting then. The reason development was fast was because Commodore's initial suit had merit - Shiraz had mapped out a lot of it while still at Commodore that March and April and completed it that May and June (along with a line of new 8-bits being planned).
BTW, here's a copy of the original loan check to Amiga from Atari Inc.:
http://www.atarimuseum.com/computers/aed/Amiga-check-07MAR84-wm.jpg
Interesting,
The book "On the Edge", and various interviews with Jay Miner and RJ Mitchel seem to portray a slightly different story (and different amounts- $24 million and $4.25/share IIRC). RJ explains it all in the DVD included with "Amiga Forever" and you can find it on you Tube. They, of course are slightly bias accounts from Amiga staff. I would wonder which story is closer to the truth. But you are right, Jack didn't find out until after he got Atari about the Amiga deal, but he did negotiate a deal with Amiga when he was still at Commodore, which never went anywhere (and left a real "Bad" attitude about Jack to the Amiga staff- He basically tried to squeeze Amiga for nothing.) Out of all the people interviewed for the book -RJ had really Bad feelings about Jack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeVcZ_NsCOI
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Sure, acutally Bohuš was there to record it and should be putting it up at retrothing.com this week (at least that's what he just emailed me).
Bohuš is cool that way :)
I like that blog, I should read it more often....
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Interesting,
The book "On the Edge", and various interviews with Jay Miner and RJ Mitchel seem to portray a slightly different story
Actually no, On the Edge (a wonderful book by Brian, that I also contributed to) recounts the meeting Jack had with them that Spring as part of his TTL (Tramel Technology Ltd.). Jack spent that Spring going across Silicon Valley looking for new technologies to possibly use in his computers. Amiga was one of several places he visited.
BTW - it's RJ Mical. As far as him, see below.
(and different amounts- $24 million and $4.25/share IIRC).
The amounts I gave come directly from the contracts.
RJ explains it all in the DVD included with "Amiga Forever" and you can find it on you Tube.
RJ does a "storytelling" routine on his stage presentation. As a direct quote of his states - "If I have to choose between the truth and telling a good story - I prefer to tell a good story". Unfortunately, 99% of the missinformation comes from RJ - who was not involved in any of the actual business dealings. Jay was involved in the initial contact, but Dave Morse was the one who actually did all the meetings, correspondences, and negotiating.
Almost every word that comes out of RJ Mical's mouth in that stage storytelling you linked to is false. There was no deal for them to buy Amiga, there was a deal to provide access to the chips and licensing for production. There was no one month to negotiate (the hammering out of the licensing agreement was to be hammered out from the delivery of the check on March 7th through the final meeting on June 28th). The stock purchase was very clearly laid out (as I stated above and was actually reported in the Wall Street Journal that Summer as well), there was no dramatic negotiation and dropping stock offer. There was no agreement of "pay back the $500,000 or we get the company. What there was, is an agreement that if Amiga folds (i.e. goes bankrupt) because it can't meet it's financial obligations, that Atari Inc. gets access to the chip schematics (which were being held in escrow until the meeting on the 28th) and payback of the $500,000 plus interest (via liquidation if necessary). Amiga had financial deals with 5 other companies at the time and Atari needed some way to protect it's interest against the others should Amiga fold during the process. They never expected a payback, and badly needed money was only a guarantee for Amiga to move forward during the licensing discussion period, and it was to be rendered null on the signing of the licensing that Jun 28th. Which is also when the first chip fabrications were to be delivered to the Mickey engineering team. Likewise, there was no last minute meeting with Atari lawyers where he slammed a check on the table. Dave Morse cancelled the meeting on the 28th, showed up on the 29th at the COO's office with the $750,000 check to the complete surprise of him, claiming they couldn't get the chips to work properly. The COO also would not accept the check, as he didn't feel legaly authorized to do so (the deal was actually with Warner) and tried to find out from Dave why they wanted out the last minute and what it was really about. The last contact with Morse had been at the CES that early June with two meetings where they finalized the licensing agreement, shook hands and celebrated the end of a long process and looked forward to the formal signing at the end of the month. Shortly after he stopped returning calls and nobody had any contact with Amiga until he showed up at the office. During the 15 minute meeting the COO tried to assure Dave they had no intention of taking over the documents on the signing deadline date, they sincerely wanted to follow through on the signing and would give more time. Dave was adamant about wanting out, still claimed the chips didn't work, and the meeting ended.
What they didn't know was that Dave had also been negotiating with Commodore that entire month, who were first interested in a possible licensing and then buying the company outright. Dave had stated all along that his primary motivation was to build Amiga up enough to sell it, and this opportunity had come along - hence his wanting out and trying to portray the $500,00 as an escape clause. That's also why Amiga eventually wound up loosing the judgement summary and settled out of court.
This is all by sworn testimony, the actual contracts, etc.
Another interesting myth debunked, according to testimony on the Commodore side, is the oft repeated idea that they contacted and bought Amiga to get back at Jack or because they wanted a technology to compete against Jack. In actuality they begrudgingly met with Amiga at the behest of one of their (Commodore's) internal people who pushed for a meeting, as they (Commodore) already felt they had to many projects going on inside.
They, of course are slightly bias accounts from Amiga staff. I would wonder which story is closer to the truth.
We've gone directly by the actual contracts, court testimony, engineering documents, etc. all of which we have in posession. We've also conducted extensive interviews with the engineers of the Mickey project (the name of the project at Atari Inc. that was to use the Amiga chips for a game console and later expandable computer), management, etc.
But you are right, Jack didn't find out until after he got Atari about the Amiga deal, but he did negotiate a deal with Amiga when he was still at Commodore, which never went anywhere (and left a real "Bad" attitude about Jack to the Amiga staff- He basically tried to squeeze Amiga for nothing.)
No, that was as TTL. He left Commodore in very early January, the meeting at Amiga took place that late April/early May.
Out of all the people interviewed for the book -RJ had really Bad feelings about Jack.
Which is what primarily motivates most of his storytelling activities regarding that.
BTW, here's the wirewrap dev pcb layout for Mickey (http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=142458). You'll notice the labled Amiga chip spots. Final pcb's were ordered and to be delivered from the factory after the July 4h weekend to coincide with the expected delivery of the chips.
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Actually no, On the Edge (a wonderful book by Brian, that I also contributed to) recounts the meeting Jack had with them that Spring as part of his TTL (Tramel Technology Ltd.). Jack spent that Spring going across Silicon Valley looking for new technologies to possibly use in his computers. Amiga was one of several places he visited.
BTW - it's RJ Mical. As far as him, see below.
The amounts I gave come directly from the contracts.
RJ does a "storytelling" routine on his stage presentation. As a direct quote of his states - "If I have to choose between the truth and telling a good story - I prefer to tell a good story". Unfortunately, 99% of the missinformation comes from RJ - who was not involved in any of the actual business dealings. Jay was involved in the initial contact, but Dave Morse was the one who actually did all the meetings, correspondences, and negotiating.
Almost every word that comes out of RJ Mical's mouth in that stage storytelling you linked to is false. There was no deal for them to buy Amiga, there was a deal to provide access to the chips and licensing for production. There was no one month to negotiate (the hammering out of the licensing agreement was to be hammered out from the delivery of the check on March 7th through the final meeting on June 28th). The stock purchase was very clearly laid out (as I stated above and was actually reported in the Wall Street Journal that Summer as well), there was no dramatic negotiation and dropping stock offer. There was no agreement of "pay back the $500,000 or we get the company. What there was, is an agreement that if Amiga folds (i.e. goes bankrupt) because it can't meet it's financial obligations, that Atari Inc. gets access to the chip schematics (which were being held in escrow until the meeting on the 28th) and payback of the $500,000 plus interest (via liquidation if necessary). Amiga had financial deals with 5 other companies at the time and Atari needed some way to protect it's interest against the others should Amiga fold during the process. They never expected a payback, and badly needed money was only a guarantee for Amiga to move forward during the licensing discussion period, and it was to be rendered null on the signing of the licensing that Jun 28th. Which is also when the first chip fabrications were to be delivered to the Mickey engineering team. Likewise, there was no last minute meeting with Atari lawyers where he slammed a check on the table. Dave Morse cancelled the meeting on the 28th, showed up on the 29th at the COO's office with the $750,000 check to the complete surprise of him, claiming they couldn't get the chips to work properly. The COO also would not accept the check, as he didn't feel legaly authorized to do so (the deal was actually with Warner) and tried to find out from Dave why they wanted out the last minute and what it was really about. The last contact with Morse had been at the CES that early June with two meetings where they finalized the licensing agreement, shook hands and celebrated the end of a long process and looked forward to the formal signing at the end of the month. Shortly after he stopped returning calls and nobody had any contact with Amiga until he showed up at the office. During the 15 minute meeting the COO tried to assure Dave they had no intention of taking over the documents on the signing deadline date, they sincerely wanted to follow through on the signing and would give more time. Dave was adamant about wanting out, still claimed the chips didn't work, and the meeting ended.
What they didn't know was that Dave had also been negotiating with Commodore that entire month, who were first interested in a possible licensing and then buying the company outright. Dave had stated all along that his primary motivation was to build Amiga up enough to sell it, and this opportunity had come along - hence his wanting out and trying to portray the $500,00 as an escape clause. That's also why Amiga eventually wound up loosing the judgement summary and settled out of court.
This is all by sworn testimony, the actual contracts, etc.
Another interesting myth debunked, according to testimony on the Commodore side, is the oft repeated idea that they contacted and bought Amiga to get back at Jack or because they wanted a technology to compete against Jack. In actuality they begrudgingly met with Amiga at the behest of one of their (Commodore's) internal people who pushed for a meeting, as they (Commodore) already felt they had to many projects going on inside.
We've gone directly by the actual contracts, court testimony, engineering documents, etc. all of which we have in posession. We've also conducted extensive interviews with the engineers of the Mickey project (the name of the project at Atari Inc. that was to use the Amiga chips for a game console and later expandable computer), management, etc.
No, that was as TTL. He left Commodore in very early January, the meeting at Amiga took place that late April/early May.
Which is what primarily motivates most of his storytelling activities regarding that.
BTW, here's the wirewrap dev pcb layout for Mickey (http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=142458). You'll notice the labled Amiga chip spots. Final pcb's were ordered and to be delivered from the factory after the July 4h weekend to coincide with the expected delivery of the chips.
Cool, yes, sorry about the spelling on RJ's last name (it was early) but the book does give the $24 million number (I would get the exact page, but it is being lent out now) and some engineers at CBM were a bit angry at that because if management had sunk $24 million in engineering, they felt they could have come up with a better computer than the Amiga (this was a quote, I believe by (Rob) Russell, but I could be wrong).
An interesting note in the book was one of the people responsible for "setting up" the Amiga deal for CBM, left right after the deal to go work for Jack.
The book can be vague in some places though, I can list various examples of "mixed up" information, and such. Hopefully, in the new revision, it can clear up some of that info.
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Cool, yes, sorry about the spelling on RJ's last name (it was early) but the book does give the $24 million number (I would get the exact page, but it is being lent out now)
I wasn't commenting about what Commodore paid. My comments regarding money, stock, etc. were in regards to Atari Inc's arrangement with Amiga. Though again, the 75 mil was direct from news sources of the time and included cash and stock.
and some engineers at CBM were a bit angry at that because if management had sunk $24 million in engineering, they felt they could have come up with a better computer than the Amiga (this was a quote, I believe by (Rob) Russell, but I could be wrong).
Yes, that's part of what was alluded to in testimony as to why they reluctantly checked out Amiga. They already had major projects in the work and felt resources would be stretched to thin.
An interesting note in the book was one of the people responsible for "setting up" the Amiga deal for CBM, left right after the deal to go work for Jack.
Yes, Red I believe, but that was with regards to going to meet them. Not in regards to any actual deal.
The book can be vague in some places though, I can list various examples of "mixed up" information, and such. Hopefully, in the new revision, it can clear up some of that info.
I know he's planning a lot of good material. I was just happy to be able to get Jay's protege, Joe Decuir, in there and his actual involvement with Amiga (starting with being badge #3). He was laying low for a lot of years because of the lawsuits.
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I wasn't commenting about what Commodore paid. My comments regarding money, stock, etc. were in regards to Atari Inc's arrangement with Amiga. Though again, the 75 mil was direct from news sources of the time and included cash and stock.
Sorry, I though you were referring to the actual payment. My bad.
Yes, Red I believe, but that was with regards to going to meet them. Not in regards to any actual deal.
I know he's planning a lot of good material. I was just happy to be able to get Jay's protege, Joe Decuir, in there and his actual involvement with Amiga (starting with being badge #3). He was laying low for a lot of years because of the lawsuits.
Yes, IIRC it was Red. I believe he(Brian) also has an interview with Jack himself in the new edition (according to Bil Herd), I can't wait for that! they seem to keep bumping back the release date though (very frustrating).
Thanks for the info though, it is always interesting to get some more facts on the issue.
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Well Commodore did advertise, but they did it in places that didnt help get new users on the system or share it outside of the circle of people using them. Whats the point if putting huge ads in Amiga publications? Things like that.
What? I saw Buzz Aldrin, Tommy Lasorda, and Little Richard all tell me to buy an Amiga!!!
What businessman isn't going to buy the computer Little Richard is using?!!!
:roflmao:
desiv
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Hi,
See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8332640.stm
"I first sent an email in 1993 using an Amiga computer and dial-up modem. No one I knew had email at the time and most people I knew had no idea what the internet was, so I sent an email to the White House congratulating Bill Clinton on taking office. I was astonished to receive an automated reply thanking me for me interest in the US Presidency!
Keith Lillis, London, UK"
So the Amiga is still mentioned in the News.
Regards, Michael
aka rockape
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Problem is that history is always written by the winners... so who will remember Atari or Commodore, let's say in 15 yrs?
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Problem is that history is always written by the winners... so who will remember Atari or Commodore, let's say in 15 yrs?
The Atari2600 was huge - plus the name "atari" is still used for software published by Infogrames. I think in 15 years people will still remember the Atari.
C= maybe. The Amiga, not so much at all.
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The Atari2600 was huge - plus the name "atari" is still used for software published by Infogrames. I think in 15 years people will still remember the Atari.
C= maybe. The Amiga, not so much at all.
The Amiga has already gone. No one under 22 remembers the Amiga... Commodore is sort of a byword for old computer and Atari is known as a games publisher with some kind of huge legendary, but forgotten, history...
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The Amiga has already gone. No one under 22 remembers the Amiga... Commodore is sort of a byword for old computer and Atari is known as a games publisher with some kind of huge legendary, but forgotten, history...
Absolutely. My experience is that the average person out there today doesn't even remember Atari did computers, let alone had any other game system other than the 2600. I'm usually met with blank stares.
As far as Commodore, similar thing - usually the only thing remembered is "Oh yah they made computers" or "Oh yah, Commodore64".
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Commodore?
You mean Commandore? ;)
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Amiga?
You mean those beige thingys that were out in the 80s and used tapes? ;)
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Greetings,
How about in the early 90's when the console war began? On CNN, If I recall, They featured the CD32 as the "First 32bit console" for awhile, then nothing else follows until the death of C= few months later. X(
Regards,
GiZz72
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If it's any comfort to anyone, history itself will be airbrushed from history according to a Bible verse in Revelation.
(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2021:4&version=WE)
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Hi,
See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8332640.stm
"I first sent an email in 1993 using an Amiga computer and dial-up modem. No one I knew had email at the time and most people I knew had no idea what the internet was, so I sent an email to the White House congratulating Bill Clinton on taking office. I was astonished to receive an automated reply thanking me for me interest in the US Presidency!
Keith Lillis, London, UK"
So the Amiga is still mentioned in the News.
Regards, Michael
aka rockape
that's great!
my first foray's into the internet was also with my Amiga. those were heady days!
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Not just Amiga, but let's not forget about the lesser known Commodore Computers:
The "B" series- what the pet should have evolved into.
The TED Series- what happens when marketing gets a hold of a good idea and dedicates on it, over and over until it has nothing to do with the original concept.
The LCD laptop- what happens when a CEO listens to the CEO of the biggest competitor.
The whole Commodore PC line.
The C900- all the Z-people and the YEARS of work they put into a dedicated Unix box