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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Desktop Audio and Video => Topic started by: McFly on October 06, 2009, 05:08:37 PM

Title: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: McFly on October 06, 2009, 05:08:37 PM
I was just wondering about present monitor strategies my dear fellow Amiga users presently exercise in their  homes.

My usual route (1200/2000/4000/CDTV) 1084s wit spare backups for service parts and flickerfixer/Scandoubler with Nec safe shelter of MultySync 15" and 17" for A12000/4000.

Lately I’m building a new setup table for weekend  demonstrations for friends and personal joy. This would include  A2000/1200/CD32 but also ZX/C64/ combinations. I really hate to go with 1084 story here again. So LCD is simply a must. This made me open this topic and grasp some news from your own LCD setups. Mind you for that monitor atmosphere I don’t want to path big screen extravaganza.. 22" LCD TV is the limit in size that I consider tasteful for my application.

Now please do tell; what lurks in your setups with similar aspirations? What is at the moment "hot" choice among TV LCDs? I remember Samsung use to have model or two that was so happy with old Amiga resolutions  even without any additional help! These days, omit the raw specs, one would have a hard time to fetch such data while reading product specifications from manufacturer site.

This is where Amiga users come to rescue :)
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: McFly on October 11, 2009, 04:35:28 PM
I really appreciate any response and really sad to see such poor interest on this topic.

If anyone would benefit my findings, at least I should share that I’ve purchased M227WD (http://www.lge.com/uk/it-products/monitors/LG-lcd-monitor-M227WD.jsp) and works great with A2000/1200 that I only had time to test.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: AmigaPixel on October 11, 2009, 04:57:56 PM
I am suprised no one had responded to this yet. I would like to get an 15" or 17" LCD for may a A2000 but first I need a graphics card or Indivision ECS. I have NEC XV 17+  multisync I haven't been able to try on the Amiga yet. It works great on the pc, it only syncs down to 31kHz though.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: tone007 on October 11, 2009, 04:58:05 PM
There are plenty that will work, and some that'll work well, but none that will beat out a CRT.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: AmigaPixel on October 11, 2009, 05:01:42 PM
I know someone on this forum mentioned they were using an HP Pavilion mx70 17" with their Amiga 1200. I am using the same monitor right now on my pc, I got say it is one of the best quality monitors I have owned.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: AmigaPixel on October 11, 2009, 05:03:31 PM
Quote from: AmigaPixel;525562
I know someone on this forum mentioned they were using an HP Pavilion mx70 17" with their Amiga 1200. I am using the same monitor right now on my pc, I got say it is one of the best quality monitors I have owned.

I forgot to mention the mx70 is a CRT monitor.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: AmigaPixel on October 11, 2009, 05:04:49 PM
I would also add the image looks better to me than a lot of the LCD monitors I have used, including the newer TFT types.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: Tumbleweed on October 11, 2009, 09:09:43 PM
I use an old LG 15" Studioworks CRT on my A3000D, which has got a CV64 RTG card. On my A4000D I use a 15" IIYAMA LCD and it has a CV64 3D RTG card with scandoubler module.

The CRT beats the LCD hands down when it comes to picture sharpness and also range of screen modes supported (Picasso96 drivers).
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: Damion on October 11, 2009, 09:43:05 PM
A few years ago I experimented with LCDTVs, even bought a RGB -> component converter, but gave up because I was unable to find a TV that handled 50Hz, and didn't feel like gambling buying more TVs to try.

I prefer smallish screens (no larger than 17"), otherwise lo-res Amiga game screens look too "blocky".

I also like CRTs, only problem is that the Indivision doesn't do 100Hz, so you have to deal with 50Hz flicker. Also there are LCDs that rival even the best CRTs, but you have to spend $$$ and buy a good one. I have a little 15" Eizo that, as far as static images, looks exceptional, even next to good Trinitron and Diamondtron CRTs. Contrast, smearing, and color loss with AGA (TN panel) are problems, but there are better models that resolve those issues... something like an Eizo S1731 would be *very* nice for you Amiga + Indivision. :)
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: raketa on October 11, 2009, 11:36:09 PM
I have a very cheapo Benq monitor. The only 50Hz monitor in this price range (100-150,- €) I have found.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: Moto on October 12, 2009, 01:05:19 AM
Quote from: McFly;525558
I really appreciate any response and really sad to see such poor interest on this topic.

If anyone would benefit my findings, at least I should share that I’ve purchased M227WD (http://www.lge.com/uk/it-products/monitors/LG-lcd-monitor-M227WD.jsp) and works great with A2000/1200 that I only had time to test.
I had been waiting for people to respond to this as well.

I don't have my A1200 yet but once I get it, I will hook up it up via the Indivision interface to a multitude of LCD monitors.  I had been thinking of getting a "multimedia" LCD panel which accepts everything from DVI to S-Video so I can use it with whatever retro hardware I had.  Viewsonic makes a nice 22 + 24 inch multimedia panels.

My backup plan is to use a 19" viewsonic CRT that's sitting in the closet.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: illy5603 on October 12, 2009, 03:00:44 AM
I would recommend buying an older monitor that has a max resolution of 1084X768 which is the current maximum for the indivision AGA. Wide screen monitors will either give you "black bars" on the sides when in the correct aspect ratio (4:3) or give you that lame stretched out look when filling the whole screen (16:9)

Also be careful of monitors that are also TV sets. My A1200 with indivision AGA will not work on either of our giant LCD TV sets via VGA port and had to be fiddled with endlessly to work on my small Dell LCD monitor / TV.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: zipper on October 12, 2009, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: raketa;525600
I have a very cheapo Benq monitor. The only 50Hz monitor in this price range (100-150,- €) I have found.


My BenQ does 44-51 Hz, 59-61 and 74-75.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: Cammy on October 12, 2009, 02:51:25 PM
Here's a little video of my Amiga LCD solution - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaz6fNpHYIg
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: persia on October 12, 2009, 03:15:37 PM
You're young!  There's long discussions on how to make the Amiga attractive to young people, since most of us are closer to old age pensions than we care to admit.  What got you into Amiga?
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: Cammy on October 12, 2009, 03:51:04 PM
I got into the Amiga through my very first console, the CD32. Eventually I got an A1200 because I wanted to make my own CD32 games.

I was born the same year the Amiga was, 1985 :) And trust me, I'm working on several projects to try and make Amigas more attractive to young people, but there's lots of work to be done.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: AmigaPixel on October 12, 2009, 04:49:13 PM
Quote from: Cammy;525668
Here's a little video of my Amiga LCD solution - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaz6fNpHYIg


@Cammy

Wow! I haven't seen so many Amiga in the same room in years. I was looking at a simple Amiga 23 pin RGB to S-video from Hello World Cables Connectivity Products, I was also considering this http://cgi.ebay.com/15Khz-RGB-CGA-Component-Video-to-VGA-Converter-Scaler_W0QQitemZ120340188651QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c04d58deb

This looks like a very good option! I hope he gets more in stock soon.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: AmigaPixel on October 12, 2009, 04:51:40 PM
@Cammy

 I wished my wife was into Amigas, actually she liked when it was about doing graphics, but after I started to live, breath and eat Amigas it was a bit much for her. She still likes and admires the Amiga though.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: McFly on October 13, 2009, 03:11:56 AM
Now that's more like it !

It took only one waking post to amount this fine data?  Well, I should do this more other then :) Glad to read your posts and your latest setup/findings.

Quote from: Cammy;525668
Here's a little video of my Amiga LCD solution - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaz6fNpHYIg


Cammy,

First of all let me salute your presence and newfound Amiga renaissance you present in your video. In times of tech declaration rather then substance or real innovations, I love to see someone your age travels this passion with the same aplomb nostalgia would drive most of us here. You also remind me how Nathan was surely very busy this month!  The latest shipment is out of stock (RGB to PAL/NTSC adapter) and again ordered two of them this month. Precisely for this application.

Ideally I would consider TN screen as heresy on my desk. I work strictly with S-IPS and truly allergic to TN brotherhood. Amiga  truly deserves such treatment but since this is a pleasuredome zone, I just don’t see much point. So I wanted something TN latest at least with those traditional benefits of fine response and somewhat refined color with present TN standards.

I’m very happy, looks very good indeed. Just made a note to make some photos to show you here.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: Damion on October 13, 2009, 03:28:32 AM
Quote
Ideally I would consider TN screen as heresy on my desk.


My little 15" TN panel is great for OCS/ECS gaming, and for 1024x768 output from Amiga gfx cards. (BTW - for an old card, the Picasso IV has *outstanding* analog output quality - hardly distinguishable from a digital connection.) On the downside, there is obvious color loss with some AGA things, when next to a CRT or PVA LCD... don't know if modern TN panels are still 6 bits per color though.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: AmigaPixel on October 13, 2009, 03:02:14 PM
@McFly

 Well put!
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: AmigaPixel on October 13, 2009, 03:08:15 PM
@cammy

 Do you know if this rgb/s-video converter can work with 31khz (DBLNTSC/PAL)? I am unclear if S-video is able to even carry 31khz or if it is limited to 15khz. I never really gave it thought before.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: tone007 on October 13, 2009, 03:11:45 PM
31khz modes don't work over s-video, that holds true for the converter mentioned previously, unless of course you've got a magic display that'll take 31khz s-video (haven't come across one of those yet.)
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: AmigaPixel on October 13, 2009, 04:23:17 PM
@tone007 Thanks for clearing that up, It would be cool if I did have that magic display though, unnecessary but cool.

Does anyone make an Amiga rgb to componet cable?
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: tone007 on October 13, 2009, 04:28:03 PM
I tried making one once, but it didn't work.  I most likely did something wrong though.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: Cammy on October 13, 2009, 04:52:38 PM
Luckily the LCD TV I use has a built-in flicker fixer, so there's no need for DblNTSC/PAL/Multiscan resolutions anymore. It's almost as good as having an IndivisionAGA, but a lot cheaper.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: McFly on October 13, 2009, 10:13:07 PM
Quote from: Damion;525756
My little 15" TN panel is great for OCS/ECS gaming, and for 1024x768 output from Amiga gfx cards. (BTW - for an old card, the Picasso IV has *outstanding* analog output quality - hardly distinguishable from a digital connection.) On the downside, there is obvious color loss with some AGA things, when next to a CRT or PVA LCD... don't know if modern TN panels are still 6 bits per color though.


As I’m sure you already understand the nature of TN screens : economy while being the most competitively priced. With such prospect TN has no aspiration being color precise and since earliest adoption traded depth for his biggest guns named Speed. Making them fastest players in that department. We all know primary fields where this virtues shines. That leaves us with many strategies which really have over the years made TNs much better then previous TN findings. Dithering + the usual strategies to declare them as 8-bit. Nothing critical color work would employ with any serious consideration, nevertheless, for many desktop users, very eye pleasing depending on its implementation and panel quality. In other words, camouflaged 6-bit screens as 8-bit are not that bad for their primary purpose. There is just no need for them to compete above their color league. Now that more economical  ways for S-PVA (C-PVA)  and E-ips (S-IPS/H-IPS) already available with models from Samsung, Dell and others to come…. You get the picture.

Quote from: Cammy;525832
Luckily the LCD TV I use has a built-in flicker fixer, so there's no need for DblNTSC/PAL/Multiscan resolutions anymore. It's almost as good as having an IndivisionAGA, but a lot cheaper.


Cammy that monitor of yours truly intrigues me. I like to pride myself being well informed in this department , yet shamefully I must confess that I’ve never heard of this model. Never heard of this brand to be more precise. Samsung provided his late 710 mp and 510 mp derivatives to some Asian makers, perhaps most of the logic is found in your monitor as well. I doubt it would be feasible from them to employ this left on their own devices entirely. Could you please for sake of my curiosity provide precise brand name and the very exact model number and don’t omit revision specification, provided one is available on your sticker. Tried to search form the data you provided on your youtube video, but alas, I couldn’t find any relevant or useful information. Also, could you estimate your purchase date?

Thank you

Quote from: AmigaPixel;525807
@McFly
 Well put!


Kind of you to say so AmigaPixel :)
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: tone007 on October 14, 2009, 03:18:57 AM
I've got one of these: http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=2001FP-R&cpc=SUGG that flicker fixes on composite/s-video.

Better than nothing, but not as good as Indivision/2320.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: AmigaPixel on October 14, 2009, 07:10:40 PM
I wasn't very successful in finding more info on the 19" MXT LCD1904HDD either.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: Cammy on October 15, 2009, 02:09:27 AM
Unfortunately all the information I listed on my YouTube video is all the information that is available with this TV! I have also tried searching for them, but to no avail.

It was purchased about six months ago from Coles or Woolworths (some Australian food supermarket) during some special deal, for $299AU. My friend's mum bought it for her caravan, since it's an all-in-one DVD/TV/Monitor sollution, and it's also 12v compatible for running off a car battery. Since she never goes on holidays though, I asked if I could borrow it just for a few days to test it out, and that was a couple of months ago (ssshhh).

I dread the day I have to give it back, because I haven't found anything as awesome as this screen anywhere since.

It's from China, like nearly everything sold in Australia, so maybe that's where we need to look.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: McFly on October 15, 2009, 05:52:10 PM
Quote from: tone007;525906
I've got one of these: http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=2001FP-R&cpc=SUGG that flicker fixes on composite/s-video.
Better than nothing, but not as good as Indivision/2320.


There is certainly nothing "better then nothing" shabby about your Dell. Still S-IPS (LM201U04) that only requires some help of proper calibration as with most of the Dell monitors. Don’t  loose it with your later wide visitors. That aspect ratio will always be very handy and most useful in many fields of creative work. If you can’t borrow some calibrator from your friends, dedicate a small visit to this site (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/).

Quote from: AmigaPixel;525974
I wasn't very successful in finding more info on the 19" MXT LCD1904HDD either.


Previous (almost) equivalent of Cammie’s model but as CRT is MXT MTV140D (http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/5851/mxtmtv1401d.png)

Referent design originates from Philips but found in previous Siemens and other EU names as well. Interesting, Will look into this at later date to obtain more information about MXT name.


Quote from: Cammy;526034
It was purchased about six months ago from Coles or Woolworths (some Australian food supermarket) during some special deal, for $299AU. My friend's mum bought it for her caravan, since it's an all-in-one DVD/TV/Monitor sollution, and it's also 12v compatible for running off a car battery. Since she never goes on holidays though, I asked if I could borrow it just for a few days to test it out, and that was a couple of months ago (ssshhh). I dread the day I have to give it back, because I haven't found anything as awesome as this screen anywhere since.


By now, I think it is safe to say this monitor will not leave your Amiga premises for sure :)


Quote from: Cammy;526034
It's from China, like nearly everything sold in Australia, so maybe that's where we need to look.


Don't be like that Cammy,

From finer side of manufacturing bliss, your land still offers uncompromised results from great pioneers in their own fields :

S&S (http://www.stuartandsons.com/) , F (http://www.fairlightau.com/) , Dun (http://www.duntech.com.au/) ,KM (http://www.metaxas.com/) just to name a few.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: tone007 on October 15, 2009, 08:36:25 PM
Quote from: McFly;526088
There is certainly nothing "better then nothing" shabby about your Dell.


Oh, no, the monitor itself is great, I'm a big fan of 4:3 flatscreens, I don't own a single 16:9 that isn't on a laptop.  The "better than nothing" aspect is the flickerfixer for composite/svideo, mostly because those signals aren't nearly as sharp as VGA, but it's nice on my 1200T (which doesn't have an Indivision.)
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: DyLucke on October 16, 2009, 10:41:23 AM
My younger brother and a son of one of my friends got into the retro-computers, specially into the Amiga and ST bec we showed these systems to them.

Actually they found them more interesting than PC's, they know they're limited, but you know, they have some essence PC's don't. I've even seen kids playing with C64's bec their fathers have one at home, and they like it. "It's not a PS3, but games are fun" under their own exact words.
Title: Re: Best LCD choices for that proper AMI monitor feel in 2009.
Post by: McFly on October 16, 2009, 07:23:26 PM
Quote from: tone007;526104
Oh, no, the monitor itself is great, I'm a big fan of 4:3 flatscreens, I don't own a single 16:9 that isn't on a laptop.  The "better than nothing" aspect is the flickerfixer for composite/svideo, mostly because those signals aren't nearly as sharp as VGA, but it's nice on my 1200T (which doesn't have an Indivision.)

I guess this also depends upon the size of complete available desktop tapestry. Above 20" I tend to be less nitpicking with wide. But still keep in my present PC setup (http://www.shrani.si/?X/wm/3nMG11Q6/333-copy-of-img4096.jpg) at least one 5:4 candidate :)

.