Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: sim085 on August 25, 2009, 09:40:10 AM
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So now I have an A500+ with 68000 processor, 8Mb FastRAM, 2Mb ChipRam and a GVP HD8+. I know that compared to what people have over here my specifications don't look so great (mostly from a processor perspective). However I have run out of things to do with the machine (playing does not feel the same nor have the time) and therefore was wondering if I can reach my long ago goal to make this machine browse the internet.
I found a good tutorial here:
http://peta.mobilserver.cz/amiga/
This tutorial seem to indicate that browsing the Internet on a stock A500 is possible.
Now my question is a little bit different. At home I have an ADSL connection and a Wireless Network that shares the ADSL connection with all the PC's. My laptop connects to the Wireless network and therefore can access Internet.
So what are my options to share these resources (ADSL) on my Amiga (if any)? Or the only way for an Amiga to connect to the Internet is through dial up?
Regards,
Sim085
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If you are looking for a world of pain and challenge with failure being the most likely option then go for it. Haveing the GVP will help you get there quicker.
Once you have a tcpip stack with a gateway defined you will be able to FTP and HTTP(Browse) to the internet using your adsl. As long as you can fit everything in 10Mb.
A network card might be a challenge though..Thus the tutorial use of serial and a modem..
Good luck...!
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If you are looking for a world of pain and challenge with failure being the most likely option then go for it. Haveing the GVP will help you get there quicker.
Once you have a tcpip stack with a gateway defined you will be able to FTP and HTTP(Browse) to the internet using your adsl. As long as you can fit everything in 10Mb.
A network card might be a challenge though..Thus the tutorial use of serial and a modem..
Good luck...!
You can easily fit TCP/IP, an IRC Client, and possibly IBrowse (without too many tabs open) inside 10MB... (You can fit Miami and AmIRC inside 2MB - I tried it on WinUAE...)
I'd say having the extra memory makes this possible, the only issue is what to connect your Amiga via... on my A1200 I use Wifi through the PCMCIA port, i'm guessing on the A1200 it will be the serial port... but how do you configure the serial to connect on the Windows/Linux/Host side?
But yeah, it definitely is possible.
Alex.
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... but how do you configure the serial to connect on the Windows/Linux/Host side?
Alex.
You need to configure a SLIP connection from the Amiga to the PeeCee. Good luck.
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Ok, Excluding the physical connection - what software do I need? I am asking this because I feel that some of the software mentioned in the tutorial (link above) is especially required for a dialup connection.
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A good guide to installing/using AmiTCP:
http://www.acc.umu.se/~patrikax/amiga/guides/AmiTCP_Install/
What can be done on reasonably low-end classic machines:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070311022508/http://www.amiga600.net/
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Ok, Excluding the physical connection - what software do I need? I am asking this because I feel that some of the software mentioned in the tutorial (link above) is especially required for a dialup connection.
You create a SLIP connection with Miami. Good luck.
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A good guide to installing/using AmiTCP:
http://www.acc.umu.se/~patrikax/amiga/guides/AmiTCP_Install/
Can the configurations defined here be changed at a later stage? Or I would need to re-install everything again? Also after I get AmiTCP to work, then it means I just need to install some form of browser and I am ready?
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Has anyone managed to get a slip connection working between the amiga and pc for sharing internet?. I tried once on a win98 machine i have and on another xp box, but couldn't get it to work.
Thanks in advance!!!!.
P.D.: If i'm not mistaken, there is a clockport(or expansion port) network card for amiga 500 and it was sold by idividual computers i think it was called xsurf.
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I got it working between A1200 , serial cable ( null modem), and win2k machine, and win98se machine
dont ask me how though was sooo long ago, but you can defo get it working
from memory you have to use a special serial device
you then have to setup an inccomming connection in windows
then share internet with that connection
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Can the configurations defined here be changed at a later stage? Or I would need to re-install everything again? Also after I get AmiTCP to work, then it means I just need to install some form of browser and I am ready?
You can change them in the conf files. Nice and easy, some of it is very similar to Linux nextworking.
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Nine or ten aeons ago I got the KA9Q Amiga port working on an A500 through a nullmodem to a peecee... But if memory serves I got nothing more than a Lynx port, a rudimentary IRC client, telnet and ftp to actually "work". That may be generous- it was like 1996.
The goal was to get it working with the ip vhf packet network back then.
The newer stacks are much more user-friendly. Good luck!
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I used these instructions to get Amiga and winXP connected over tcp/ip:
http://bwinton.latte.ca/Palm/ppp.html
more elegant solution is to get an old hub/router that has rs233 port!
I have one such device, it was supposed to use the rs232 dialup modem as uplink.
ebay probably has some as usual.
I think cisco still makes some new routers with rs232 port but of course those are very expensive and not for home use.
that way you don't need PC.
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Nine or ten aeons ago I got the KA9Q Amiga port working on an A500 through a nullmodem to a peecee... But if memory serves I got nothing more than a Lynx port, a rudimentary IRC client, telnet and ftp to actually "work". That may be generous- it was like 1996.
The goal was to get it working with the ip vhf packet network back then.
The newer stacks are much more user-friendly. Good luck!
VHF Packet network? Another radio ham?
M0SAZ this way.
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I wouldn't bother. Although it's amazing that you can do it, the actual experiance isn't much fun. Even with my A1200 (wireless PCMICA/ADSL) with an 030, 64mb running in 1024x768 it is very painful and only usable on 'basic' sites.
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Hi
I have my A1200 on the network with broadband connection. I use Miami D and Samba plus YAM. Whilst the actual internet isn`t that great, having the Amiga mailing on broadband and being able to move files about quickly to several computers is very useful. Samba was a bit of a pig to start with but eventually I got there. I have scripts linked to icons on the Workbench that connect to several other computer drives for easy access. They work very much as extra drive space for the Amiga.
scuzz
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So now I have an A500+ with 68000 processor, 8Mb FastRAM, 2Mb ChipRam and a GVP HD8+. I know that compared to what people have over here my specifications don't look so great (mostly from a processor perspective). However I have run out of things to do with the machine (playing does not feel the same nor have the time) and therefore was wondering if I can reach my long ago goal to make this machine browse the internet.
I found a good tutorial here:
http://peta.mobilserver.cz/amiga/
This tutorial seem to indicate that browsing the Internet on a stock A500 is possible.
Now my question is a little bit different. At home I have an ADSL connection and a Wireless Network that shares the ADSL connection with all the PC's. My laptop connects to the Wireless network and therefore can access Internet.
So what are my options to share these resources (ADSL) on my Amiga (if any)? Or the only way for an Amiga to connect to the Internet is through dial up?
Regards,
Sim085
I did this some time ago on my 68030.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15793
Screenshot looks like this:
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/1394/1_2322.gif
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hmm I see the link to the mdmhayes.inf (http://minnie.tuhs.org/twiki/bin/view/Network/SerialPPPWithXP) I posted back in 2003 is now dead. I have a copy of the driver if needed, and can post it if anyone wants it. This is what I used to set up the null modem in Windows.
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Should be possible to get on the Internet with an A500+ with your config, but like stated before, browsing won't be such a fantastic experience, although it is fun just to see your A500 online :)
Here are some instructions I wrote some time ago on how to configure PPP over a serial cable to a PC running Linux or a Mac:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=40436
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=288118
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As mentioned before, it is nice from a technical perspective, but that's about it.
Browsing the web on my well expanded A1200 (68060, 64 MB) is no fun at all. Amiga browsers don't work nicely with modern web standards, while the Amiga itself is simply to slow (even with turboboards and graphics cards) to make browsing the web an enjoyable experience.
FTP works much better, as does e-mail. Browsing is a no go for me.
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I am not really into connecting my A500+ to a PC (through a null modem) and then share Internet resources like that. I like the idea of connecing the A500+ to an 'old' hub more. However how would I connect my A500+ to the hub? As much as I know my A500+ does not have any place where to connect a telephone wire!
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I am not really into connecting my A500+ to a PC (through a null modem) and then share Internet resources like that. I like the idea of connecing the A500+ to an 'old' hub more. However how would I connect my A500+ to the hub? As much as I know my A500+ does not have any place where to connect a telephone wire!
The only realistic option if you want to use ADSL/cable is a null modem cable. A500 networkcards are rarer than hen's teath.
There are some (very) rare hubs with which you can use a null modemcable to connect to it.
Again, from a technical perspective it can be an interesting project, but I wouldn't call it fun to use in the real world. Browsing the web with an Amiga is a pain, even when heavily expanded. Let alone a humble A500(+) with a plain 68k @ 7 Mhz.
Otoh, you can also browse the web on a C64... ;-)
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The only realistic option if you want to use ADSL/cable is a null modem cable. A500 networkcards are rarer than hen's teath.
I never saw any in fact. Do you know of any. I am just interested to see where they fit.
There are some (very) rare hubs with which you can use a null modemcable to connect to it.
Ok, I understand now - the null modem connects to the hub and the hub connects to the ADSL modem right? or?
Again, from a technical perspective it can be an interesting project, but I wouldn't call it fun to use in the real world. Browsing the web with an Amiga is a pain, even when heavily expanded. Let alone a humble A500(+) with a plain 68k @ 7 Mhz.
Otoh, you can also browse the web on a C64... ;-)
I do not know if i'll manage to do it. However I have my laptop to browse the internet. All I want is the see it work and maybe send some email or two ... with the title; I am sending this from my A500+ ;)
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I wonder with one of these cables (with a 25-9pin adapter) would it be possible to hook an Amiga up to a hub via the serial port to one of the ethernet ports?
http://cgi.ebay.com/RS232-DB9-Serial-to-RJ45-Cat5-Ethernet-Adapter-Cable-DE_W0QQitemZ320414237516QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9a2d434c&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
Going online with an Amiga can be a lot of fun, you just need patience. You should at least be able to comfortably chat to your friends on IRC and MSN through your expanded A500, Telnet, send email and FTP easily, read news, play MUDs, and browse the web too, although you'll need AWeb or an older version of IBrowse.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/RS232-DB9-Serial-to-RJ45-Cat5-Ethernet-Adapter-Cable-DE_W0QQitemZ320414237516QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9a2d434c&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
With such a cable why does it need to be an old hub and not a new one? Isn't that a normal RJ45!
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It wouldn't need an old hub, that's why I suggested it. It's a long shot though...
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I never saw any in fact. Do you know of any. I am just interested to see where they fit.
I never saw one for real, only in pictures, but they do exist and connect to the A500's expansio port. Which makes connecting your GVP HD8+ impossible... :-)
Ok, I understand now - the null modem connects to the hub and the hub connects to the ADSL modem right? or?
Right. But even then it is not guaranteed to work: even if you can find a hub with an RS232 port, you should check if that particular hub has a connection to guide the signal from RS232 to the RJ45 connectors. Many hubs with an RS232 connector just use it to edit the settings of the hub itself, without being capable of transferring data to and from the RJ45 connectors.
I do not know if i'll manage to do it. However I have my laptop to browse the internet. All I want is the see it work and maybe send some email or two ... with the title; I am sending this from my A500+ ;)
E-mail will work nicely (albeit a little slow on a 68k), as does FTP, IRC and some other internetstuff. To be short: browsing the web sucks on any Amiga, the rest is ok.
If you have trouble locating an adequate hub (which would not be strange), connecting your Amiga to a pc with a null modem cable and use the pc as a sort of router/server is much easier to do and gives the same results in the end.
My A1200, 2000 & 3000 are all connected to my LAN and this works quite nicely. All of them use a 'real' ethernet card, which is very easy to set up.
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I did this some time ago on my 68030.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15793
Screenshot looks like this:
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/1394/1_2322.gif
My screenshot looks like this:
http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=22102&d=1247669879
:D
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VHF Packet network? Another radio ham?
M0SAZ this way.
Yessir... KT4QF here!
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Maybe It could interest you.
I'm working in a Slip to Ethernet bridge. I have the prototype almost finished.
The idea behind It is to connect my 'shortly' expanded A500+ (no accelerator card, and only 1,5 Mb of chip ram... by now) to my network, and to the Internet by extension...
Basically, It takes the incoming IP datagrams from the ethernet, makes some simple processing (discard bad packets, check the target IP, etc...), and resends them to the serial port in Slip format.
In the other direction (Serial to Ethernet), It takes the datagrams from the serial port, and send them to the net, taking care of things such the ARP and all those other 'nasty' things :P
At first, It will only support Slip protocol. I guess PPP protocol will be added in the future.
I'll post some photos as soon as I can.
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No, Cammy, I doubt that would work. I think that cable is used for Cisco routers, to connect them with terminal and configure/administrate them.
those Cisco routers/switches have rj45 instead of db9 connector.
we need here more than a simple cable, like ferix says.
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Yeah, I had a feeling we'd need more than just that cable, oh well. :(
Ferix, your project seems really cool though, I really hope you get it working, that'd be just the sort of thing you could make a small batch of and sell to Amiga users around the world. I'd love to get something like that for the A500s and CD32s here.
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*shakes his head*
surfing the net without 68030 is a crawl, just like on C64 (even worse). Just to prove that you can load a page and make coffee while you wait for images to load? jeez.
spend some money and get 68030 or 68040 or 68060 cpu then at least you are surfing...
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I am not really into connecting my A500+ to a PC (through a null modem) and then share Internet resources like that. I like the idea of connecing the A500+ to an 'old' hub more. However how would I connect my A500+ to the hub? As much as I know my A500+ does not have any place where to connect a telephone wire!
You'll need an Ethernet card and, as stated before, they're very rare for the A500. One that I know of is the Amiganet Hydra 500. I own at least one working model, they look like this:
http://www.easygalaxy.net/cfamiga/amiganet-hydra-500.html
The problem is that these use BNC connectors and not your regular RJ-45 UTP CAT5 cables that you're used to. So you'll need a switch or hub that supports both BNC and RJ-45 connectors or you'll need some sort of device that serves as an adaptor to convert signals from your BNC headed coax cable to the RJ-45 UTP CAT5 cable. I have one of those devices too and a 10Mbit switch that I used to try and get things working. In the end, failing to get things working I just gave up and went back to using a PPP/null modem connection to my iMac.
If you're really interested in a "standalone solution" your best bet would be to hunt down one of those RS-232 to WiFi adapters. You probably won't be able to use it out of the box without a gender bender, because the Amiga's serial port is DB25 female instead of the more usually found male. I'll be looking into buying one in the future (just for kicks), but they tend to be pretty expensive.
EDIT: Either that or hope that Jens Schoenfeld conjures up some cool addon that'll allow you to use your A500 with your WiFi network. :)
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@nonbelievers
well there are other things like email, ftp, samba,ntp..
it would be kind of cool just to see them running on a500 (even though zmodem would be faster)
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I've uploaded some pictures from my project.
It's unfinished yet. I'll post more photos as long as I get my camera back... :P
The front panel. It has a LCD and a small keyboard for configuration purposes:
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=54&pictureid=284)
The rear panel, you can see the serial port, the reset switch, and the ethernet socket:
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=54&pictureid=287)
A general view of the gadget:
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=54&pictureid=285)
Another view:
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=54&pictureid=283)
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wow :) Just out of curiosity. In this project would AmiTCP still be needed? Considering that data is passed through the serial port?
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wow :) Just out of curiosity. In this project would AmiTCP still be needed? Considering that data is passed through the serial port?
Nope... You still need a TCP/IP stack, at least for conecting to the Internet.
This device only gets the TCP/IP packets from one media and resends them to the other media (well, there's a bit of processing involved).
I suppose that you asked that because AmiTCP uses a lot of memory, and would be fine to take It apart...
So I've been thinking It's possible to port the Adam Dunkels' uIP. It's the smallest functional TCP/IP stack, and It runs on very small systems, like a 8 bit processor with only 2Kbytes of ram, an even sharing the ram with real time OS (Contiki). It's been used on the C64 ;)
You 'only' need to adapt It to the Amiga OS API... :P
The project page: http://www.sics.se/~adam/uip/index.php/Main_Page (http://www.sics.se/%7Eadam/uip/index.php/Main_Page)
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Hi again, I guess you are more on the hardware aspect however. Is this project only for Amiga's or it can surve other purpuses as well?
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Just a novice but still.. PD4XTC here ;-) Also did packet with amicom and a baycom modem ;-)
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Hi again, I guess you are more on the hardware aspect however. Is this project only for Amiga's or it can surve other purpuses as well?
Well, my primal goal is to connect my A500+ (only 1,5Mb chip) to my ethernet network, but the device is designed to be multiplatform.
You can connect every computer you want, only a serial port and slip protocol is required (and tcp/ip over it, of course).
I don't know what could be the "top speed" of the serial link, but I think you can achieve 115000 bauds at least, better than a 56K modem. ;)
I was thinking on include a plip port for higher speeds, but It would be less compatible, but It's still possible.
I also have another version with a wifi card, but It's a lot more complex, and It's not worth doing It.
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Well, my primal goal is to connect my A500+ (only 1,5Mb chip) to my ethernet network, but the device is designed to be multiplatform.
You can connect every computer you want, only a serial port and slip protocol is required (and tcp/ip over it, of course).
I don't know what could be the "top speed" of the serial link, but I think you can achieve 115000 bauds at least, better than a 56K modem. ;)
I was thinking on include a plip port for higher speeds, but It would be less compatible, but It's still possible.
I also have another version with a wifi card, but It's a lot more complex, and It's not worth doing It.
When do you think you'll have a working version? You should keep the community informed when it is ready :) Depending on how much it costs I may considering buying one (if you ever decide to sell such units).
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When do you think you'll have a working version? You should keep the community informed when it is ready :) Depending on how much it costs I may considering buying one (if you ever decide to sell such units).
Well, I guess the hardware part should be finished on next weekend, but I don't know when the software will be running....
I'm not thinking on selling It. I prefer to make the software and hardware public available.
My hardware is being built with samples and spare parts. I only bought some passive components, such resistors, leds, connectors, and the prototype board... but I think the most expensive part is the LCD, and It's not essential. An especial configuration mode can be included for making the setup of the device through the serial port.
I guess you can build one for 35 euros or 30$, without the LCD, of course.
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Well, I guess the hardware part should be finished on next weekend, but I don't know when the software will be running....
I'm not thinking on selling It. I prefer to make the software and hardware public available.
My hardware is being built with samples and spare parts. I only bought some passive components, such resistors, leds, connectors, and the prototype board... but I think the most expensive part is the LCD, and It's not essential. An especial configuration mode can be included for making the setup of the device through the serial port.
I guess you can build one for 35 euros or 30$, without the LCD, of course.
I wish you all luck with your project and hope to hear about it soon :)
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Here's another screenshot of the OCS internet experience to add to the collection ;)
http://home.exetel.com.au/amiga/OCSinternet.png
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I noticed several hams here that also are amigans. How many of you still have yours on the air?. I sometimes put mine on packet. EA5HDX here.
Cheers!
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@ ferix
That`s cool!!! But you should put a DB-25 Serial port on there for ultimate coolness :)
Those power lines could be useful as well!!
I love the Amiga Serial port!!
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My screenshot looks like this:
http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=22102&d=1247669879
:D
I am humbled and am forced to accept defeat... No way I can match THAT on my A500......
:drink
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Hi everyone, IIRC, I've already connected my friend's Amiga500 to the internet(dial-up) back in 2003. We just bought his new, Rom kickstart 3.1 and thought of going online so we can chat. Some of the ingredients were as follows.
• Amiga500 (CPU68k 1mb Chip, GVP HDD(SCSI512MBHDD)+8MBfast)
• 56k Flex Modem
• KS3.1
• Workbench 3.1
• MUI3.7
• Miami
• Alynx(this is a text based browser) (http://aminet.net/comm/net/ALynx_AS225exe.lha)
• Aloooooooooooooooot of patience.. :lol:
The experience of connecting it to the net gives me the chills :lol: our next step were to download install Ibrowse2.1 the next day, but unfortunately, his phone line were cut off for not paying the bills. :(
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@gizz72
Back in the day, I used my Amiga2000HD over dialup connection to my ISP.
- Amiga2000HD (68000CPU 1 MB Chip, 4 MB FastRAM, 40 MB hard drive)
- KS3.1
- Workbench 3.1
- AmiTCP/IP
- ppp.device
- AWeb-II
- FTPMount
- Zoom 14.4Kbps modem
It was slow, but I was always amazed that I could actually do it.
---
redfox
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I noticed several hams here that also are amigans. How many of you still have yours on the air?. I sometimes put mine on packet. EA5HDX here.
Cheers!
I ran my A500 with a KPC-3 and an FT-2400.
I never even knew a Baycom would work with an Amiga. It was hard enough getting it to work with the laptops of the day. No idea where mine went to, but I still have the KPC-3 on an Icom 706.
A few years ago I tinkered with a CDTV and JR-COMM to monitor the DX cluster stream but never put it all together after I moved. Maybe I will with the new cycle bringing back 10 meters.
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I don't know what could be the "top speed" of the serial link, but I think you can achieve 115000 bauds at least, better than a 56K modem. ;)
I was thinking on include a plip port for higher speeds, but It would be less compatible, but It's still possible.
The Amiga serial port cannot achieve more than 56kb on 030 or better accelerator. Pure 68000 runs OK at 19200 or a bit over this using software serial replacement like baudbandit or new8n1.
Anyway, this project is very interesting and I really love to see the schematics or the prototype running.
My congratulations to you!
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The Amiga serial port cannot achieve more than 56kb on 030 or better accelerator. Pure 68000 runs OK at 19200 or a bit over this using software serial replacement like baudbandit or new8n1.
I know It, but as I said, It's multiplatform. You can use It at 115000 bps if your hardware can reach that speed.
Anyway, this project is very interesting and I really love to see the schematics or the prototype running.
My congratulations to you!
You'll see them soon ;)
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You'll see them soon ;)
Do you have a page for the project? I think we can stop hijacking this poor thread.
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Do you have a page for the project? I think we can stop hijacking this poor thread.
No, I don't (yet). But you're right, we must stop hijacking this thread.
I'll open a new thread with the status of the project, as soon as I finished the hardware. It's about 95% concluded now...