Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Morley on August 05, 2009, 02:49:10 PM

Title: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: Morley on August 05, 2009, 02:49:10 PM
See thread title.

I'm thinking about the original Amiga patents and/or intellectual property coming from the original Commodore bankruptcy...

What exact areas does the patents cover? Anybody know? I tried googling but nowhere did I find anything useful - apart from some DMA patent from the late 80s.

This is purely out of curiosity - since everytime the Amiga intellectual property/patents have switched hands they have been "spoken highly" of.
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: Tension on August 05, 2009, 03:21:00 PM
Worthless
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: Morley on August 05, 2009, 05:08:05 PM
Quote from: Tension;518096
Worthless


That is also my thought, but it would be interesting to know what exactly they have/had...purely out of curiosity.

There has been so much talk about these patents, but nowhere can we find what they are about.
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: Caius on August 05, 2009, 07:10:04 PM
I seem to remember that they had patent on selecting multiple items from a menu at once. Or more likely, the way it was done on the Amiga.
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: A1260 on August 05, 2009, 07:22:45 PM
Quote from: Tension;518096
Worthless


no shit sherlock!...
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: Iggy on August 05, 2009, 07:29:07 PM
At almost 25 years old, the question becomes are these patents still valid? If so could they be used as ammunition against current Amiga clone projects (like the Natami or Jens Schönfeld's project)?
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: bloodline on August 05, 2009, 07:48:55 PM
Quote from: Iggy;518114
At almost 25 years old, the question becomes are these patents still valid? If so could they be used as ammunition against current Amiga clone projects (like the Natami or Jens Schönfeld's project)?


Not Valid in a legal sense... Certainly not valid in a technological sense...
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: orb85750 on August 05, 2009, 07:59:42 PM
20 years patent lifetime, right?
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: Iggy on August 05, 2009, 08:14:09 PM
Quote from: orb85750;518123
20 years patent lifetime, right?

Then the patents are not a restriction (they might be useful as technical reference material). The only real restriction becomes the copyrighted intellectual property (Kickstart, AOS, etc.).
So, is there a way to uncover the details of a old patent?
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: bloodline on August 05, 2009, 08:41:38 PM
Quote from: Iggy;518125
Then the patents are not a restriction (they might be useful as technical reference material). The only real restriction becomes the copyrighted intellectual property (Kickstart, AOS, etc.).
So, is there a way to uncover the details of a old patent?


The old patents are for an implementation of an idea, since we don't want to sue that implementation anymore, I doubt there are any chip fabs left in the world that could build the original chips anymore, they are valueless... Best just do what has been done before with UAE, MiniMIG and Jens cloneA projects where you simply duplicate the functionality.

Yeah, the intellectual property is more difficult... Kickstart and AOS are both protected by copyright... but there is no law against cloning them... and thus AROS...
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: Morley on August 05, 2009, 09:11:53 PM
Hmm...I don't really care so much about the legal status or whether or not I'm allowed to use the patents, since I'm not at all considering cloning/building anything.

This is just plain curiosity. (Maybe the exact details are not out there in the public since it really is worth nada - while Amiga Inc. is pretending they are sitting on gold.)
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: persia on August 05, 2009, 09:26:45 PM
This should be an faq somewhere, the patents are dead, the copyright (on the OS) and trademark (Amiga) continue.  Lots of companies have no patents, Amiga Inc is just one of them.  It's the copyright that prevents you from cloning AmigaOS and the trademark that prevents you from calling it Amiga OS...
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: Iggy on August 05, 2009, 09:27:51 PM
Quote from: Morley;518133
Hmm...I don't really care so much about the legal status or whether or not I'm allowed to use the patents, since I'm not at all considering cloning/building anything.

This is just plain curiosity. (Maybe the exact details are not out there in the public since it really is worth nada - while Amiga Inc. is pretending they are sitting on gold.)

I can understand your curiosity (if available, the patents might lead to a clearer understanding of the Amiga's hardware and software systems).
As to Amiga Inc (and in particular Bill McEwan), I take any statements they make with a grain of salt. Amiga Anywhere seems rather pointless. Legal battles over Amiga OS4.x have hampered the development of future Amiga systems. Amiga OS5? No doubt, that's not going to happen unless they get the source to 4.0 (and then they'll probably be relying on their India subsidiary to create 5.0).
Frankly, even if their intellectual property has residual value, the longer they sit on it without developing it, the lower that value becomes.
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: Morley on August 05, 2009, 09:36:47 PM
Voila!

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=0&p=1&f=S&l=50&Query=an%2Famiga%0D%0A&d=PTXT

This is just some of the patents from Commodore/Amiga.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=0&f=S&l=50&d=PTXT&RS=AN%2Famiga&Refine=Refine+Search&Refine=Refine+Search&Query=an%2Fcommodore

More, this time using Commodore as assignee, ignore the first results...
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: bloodline on August 05, 2009, 10:10:26 PM
Quote from: persia;518136
This should be an faq somewhere, the patents are dead, the copyright (on the OS) and trademark (Amiga) continue.  Lots of companies have no patents, Amiga Inc is just one of them.  It's the copyright that prevents you from cloning AmigaOS and the trademark that prevents you from calling it Amiga OS...


Nothing prevents you from cloning AmigaOS... hence AROS and MorphOS... you just can't call it AmigaOS.

Copyright stops you from copying, as in physical copy (i.e. disk/rom chip/etc), but cloning is fine.
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: asymetrix on August 05, 2009, 10:18:09 PM
Quote from: Morley;518093
See thread title.

I'm thinking about the original Amiga patents and/or intellectual property coming from the original Commodore bankruptcy...

What exact areas does the patents cover? Anybody know? I tried googling but nowhere did I find anything useful - apart from some DMA patent from the late 80s.

This is purely out of curiosity - since everytime the Amiga intellectual property/patents have switched hands they have been "spoken highly" of.


I thought Gateway (now bankrupt) owned the Amiga patents, and Amiga has a lifetime, exclusive ? licence to use it.
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: cgutjahr on August 05, 2009, 10:23:42 PM
Quote from: Morley;518093
I tried googling but nowhere did I find anything useful - apart from some DMA patent from the late 80s.

In the US, a patent lasts for either 15 or 20 years - I'm not 100% clear on how the lifetime of a patent is decided.

The USPTO (US Patent and Trademark Office) has a searchable patent database:

http://uspto.gov/

(click "Patents" in the menu to the left, then "Search Patents", then select "Quick Search" in the left block ("Issued Patents"). To locate Amiga related patents, search field "Assignee" for "Amiga" or "Commodore".

The search results will include various patents filed after 1994 - these are not Amiga related and only listed because they are assigned to "Amiga Development LLC", Gateways (still existing) subsidiary used for 'parking' the company's patents.

All patents assigned to "Commodore-Amiga" or "Amiga Corporation" have been filed before 1990. No matter if their lifetime was 15 or 20 years, they're expired by now. That includes the famous "selecting multiple menu items" patent filed in 1988.

If you search for "Assignee = Commodore" (lots of patents filed after 1994 by other "Commodores"), you'll encounter various patents filed after 1990, these are the ones that could still be valid if their lifetime is indeed 20 years:

Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: Tension on August 05, 2009, 11:57:56 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;518151

CD-ROM video game machine



Surely not?
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: Haranguer on August 07, 2009, 04:35:45 AM
@asymetrix

Gateway aren't bankrupt.  They just don't own Amiga, Inc anymore.
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: asymetrix on August 07, 2009, 01:12:48 PM
Quote from: Haranguer;518344
@asymetrix

Gateway aren't bankrupt.  They just don't own Amiga, Inc anymore.


wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway,_Inc.

Quote

On October 16, 2007 the acquisition by Acer became final and Gateway became a privately held company and a wholly-owned subsidiary of Acer. The board of directors resigned and a new board was appointed.


They dont OWN Amiga Inc, but STILL OWN Amiga patents, or is it ACER ?
Gateway never SOLD the Amiga patents to Amiga Inc, they allowed Amiga Inc to use them.

executive update, Jan 3, 2000
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/jan3rd2000.html

Quote

Here is what was acquired from Gateway:

1. All trademarks logo's etc.
2. All existing inventory of Amiga International
3. All existing licenses.
4. License to All Amiga patents (Gateway still owns the patents, but we are able to use them).
5. All web sites, and registered domain names.
6. The Amiga OS and all that is associated with the OS.
7. The Amiga operation as it exists today.
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: persia on August 07, 2009, 02:34:39 PM
Gateway own what's left on the patents, a year or two at best on the handful that remain, they also own the name Amiga and copyright on AmigaOS, they in turn belong to Acer.

Now here is where it gets interesting, Gateway had an exclusive agreement with Amiga Inc, the original one.  That Amiga Inc no longer exists.  KMOS, the current Amiga, Inc had the agreement transfered to them after the original Amiga Inc was unable to pay it's bills (insolvent in the EU definition, but not US).  Now was Gateway informed and did they agree to this?  Was the agreement transferable?  These are things we just don't know.  As long as the Amiga name is worthless Gateway probably couldn't care less and Amiga Inc as far as anyone can tell is gone except for rented space on a server.  Indications are that the Amiga World Headquarters (a room above an Amish furniture store) are no more.

Quote from: asymetrix;518383
wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway,_Inc.



They dont OWN Amiga Inc, but STILL OWN Amiga patents, or is it ACER ?
Gateway never SOLD the Amiga patents to Amiga Inc, they allowed Amiga Inc to use them.

executive update, Jan 3, 2000
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/jan3rd2000.html
Title: Re: "Amiga" patents - what are they?
Post by: Tension on August 07, 2009, 04:16:28 PM
Quote from: Tension;518162
Surely not?



Surely not?