Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: 1985BMWK75 on July 24, 2009, 06:35:10 PM
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Hi all,
My RGB to PAL/NTSC adapter project is ready for sale. Full and comprehensive details, including photos are on my website:
http://www.amigamaniac.com
I'm selling them fully assembled from AUD$30 (no connectors), for Amiga & non-Amiga applications, to AUD$33 for a fully assembled and tested unit ready to use on an Amiga - just plug it in!
It outputs both Composite and S-Video.
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Do these work with all Amigas? I have an old RGB to S-Video/Composite device that I can't remember the name of right now that works fine on a 500/2000, but when tried on any of my 1200s outputs a greenish-colored picture.
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@ tone007
It's funny that you say that. I made an adapter cable to plug my Amiga into my Amstrad RGB colour monitor a while back. It works fine with A500 & A600, but when I connected the A1200, the picture was as you described - green coloured/tinged, and also very dark...
To answer your question, my adapter works the same on my A1200 as it does on my A500 & 600, so yes, it will work on all Amigas ;)
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These look interesting. Got a few questions for you.
-It looks like this is an up-to-date version of th A520 adapter (minus the now-useless RF stuff). Is that a fair assessment?
-This is probably my most pressing question: Let's say I have an NTSC Amiga. What happens if I put the Amiga into a PAL screenmode with this device attached (or vice versa)?
-And if weird things happen per the scenario above, can the NTSC/PAL switch be toggled while the power is on? Any chance of an autoswitching version in the future?
Thanks, and thanks again for your development work!
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These look interesting. Got a few questions for you.
-It looks like this is an up-to-date version of th A520 adapter (minus the now-useless RF stuff). Is that a fair assessment?
-This is probably my most pressing question: Let's say I have an NTSC Amiga. What happens if I put the Amiga into a PAL screenmode with this device attached (or vice versa)?
-And if weird things happen per the scenario above, can the NTSC/PAL switch be toggled while the power is on? Any chance of an autoswitching version in the future?
Thanks, and thanks again for your development work!
Hmmm, I'm not quite sure how to answer the first question :-S The old A520 uses a Motorola MC1377P , which needs more supporting circuitry to work, from memory. Amazingly, this IC can still be bought new! I remember looking at the datasheet, and thinking, nah, the AD724 is easier to implement. I actually looked at the data sheets of several video encoding IC's, and ended up coming back to the AD724, due to ease of use. Also the fact that my supplier had them way cheaper than anyone else convinced me. So I would have to say other than taking the RGB and SYNC signal(s) from the video port, and changing them into something else, it has nothing in common with the old A520. I was not thinking of the A520 when designing the PCB. The whole saga started some time ago on EAB actually. A guy with the nick of "narmi" started a thread about a home made adapter he made based on the AD724. After more than a year I think, still no one had made an adapter for the masses, as far as I can tell. I actually forgot about it for a while, then remembered, so I checked out the thread again. Since I had lots of free time on my hands, I made the decision to make my own adapter. The result of my labour is what I am now selling :)
With your other questions, I can only answer partially. I have only PAL Amigas, but I did switch to NTSC for testing purposes, and out of curiosity. Colours were normal, but the image looked stretched, or elongated, maybe zoomed in. My TV is also PAL. I think it can display NTSC as well, although I am not 100% sure. I have watched an NTSC DVD with no problem on it. But this could be my DVD player doing the work. I don't have any NTSC software to test either, after switching the Amiga to NTSC mode. I can't remember if switching to NTSC mode made any difference, with PAL software, or just the boot screen. It may depend on the circuitry of the TV, in how it tells the TV to display the image. It may squeeze it to fit, simply crop a bit off (which seems common) (NTSC), or stretch it to fit, as mine seems to have done (PAL) - but this is just speculation. I couldn't say for certain, unless I also had an NTSC Amiga and/or NTSC TV powered by 60Hz AC? I could try playing around with NTSC display on my PAL setup and taking notes this time if you like :) I'm sure there are people that actually know what they are talking about here on Amiga.org, that could tell us what to expect :P
I also tried switching between PAL and NTSC with everything on. It didn't seem to do any harm, but maybe it is not wise to do it often? So I think one could try it, to see what the differences are immediately, if curious.
As for autosensing, I doubt it. I want to keep the hardware cheap and simple. By adding more IC's and supporting circuitry, this will make things more expensive. Also, to be honest, that is not something I have bothered to research, so I don't even know how I would do it :P
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Hmmm, I'm not quite sure how to answer the first question :-S The old A520 uses a Motorola MC1377P...
I actually just meant from a functional standpoint, not necessarily a technical one, but thanks for the details :)
I ask about the PAL/NTSC stuff because I have a rather unusual video setup - a (rather lousy but sufficiently functional) S-Video/composite-to-VGA box plugged into a standard VGA CRT. Even though there is color loss putting NTSC machines into PAL when using the Amiga's built-in composite out, it does still display the full resolution (unlike my TV). I'm wondering if your new box will solve the color issue and continue to provide correct resolutions since it piggybacks off the superior RGB port.
I'm inclined to take a chance on it because at the very least it'll give S-Video output instead of composite. :) Could you post a photo of an NTSC Workbench on a PAL machine?
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How hard would it be to make an Amiga RGB to component video adapter?
Also if there's anyway to circumvent the nastiness that happens when you display a pal game on an NTSC tv that would be great. That's the biggest problem I run into. Even the CD32 can't properly do a pal game on an NTSC tv.
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How hard would it be to make an Amiga RGB to component video adapter?
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=516477#post516477
Not that hard.
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I actually just meant from a functional standpoint, not necessarily a technical one, but thanks for the details :)
I ask about the PAL/NTSC stuff because I have a rather unusual video setup - a (rather lousy but sufficiently functional) S-Video/composite-to-VGA box plugged into a standard VGA CRT. Even though there is color loss putting NTSC machines into PAL when using the Amiga's built-in composite out, it does still display the full resolution (unlike my TV). I'm wondering if your new box will solve the color issue and continue to provide correct resolutions since it piggybacks off the superior RGB port.
I'm inclined to take a chance on it because at the very least it'll give S-Video output instead of composite. :) Could you post a photo of an NTSC Workbench on a PAL machine?
He hee, well then, from a functional standpoint, I suppose it is similiar :) I have one of those TV to VGA adapters, and I only used it for a couple of weeks, because the picture was crap :(
I can load WB in NTSC mode on my PAL Amiga and take a photo, but I still think it will not be the same as what you will see, if you boot in PAL mode on native NTSC equipment. Or even what an NTSC user will see, using all NTSC equipment in NTSC mode. Or a PAL Amiga in NTSC mode, on an NTSC TV, with the adapter set to NTSC. Or a PAL Amiga in PAL mode, with the adpater set to NTSC, on an NTSC TV. Are you as confused as me yet? :P My device would have to be tested on native NTSC equipment in different combos of operation, to truly know what will happen if using PAL, either through the boot menu and/or the device itself. However, you can be pretty sure that if your TV cannot take a PAL signal, you will get a garbage display if you switch the adapter to PAL mode.
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Could you pop up a photo of a PAL Workbench via SVideo as well?. I know it's hard to take good photos of 15k video..But...Im interested!
It looks like a superb replacement for the 520. I know from my C64 that Svideo output(which the C64 has) is heaps clearer than the composite.
Looks like a nice piece of kit for us classic lovers. If it's a crystal clear Svideo picture $33 AU is a steal. Every classic amiga lover should buy one.
For me I'd like to have a 23pin plug and cable to the actual unit to give a bit of flex. At 50mm(W) x 80mm(L) x18mm (H). It looks like it will fit snuggly into to the smallest Dick Smith zippy box?.
Cheers and well done! Luv the "Made in Australia"!
Gertsy
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Could you pop up a photo of a PAL Workbench via SVideo as well?. I know it's hard to take good photos of 15k video..But...Im interested!
It looks like a superb replacement for the 520. I know from my C64 that Svideo output(which the C64 has) is heaps clearer than the composite.
Looks like a nice piece of kit for us classic lovers. If it's a crystal clear Svideo picture $33 AU is a steal. Every classic amiga lover should buy one.
For me I'd like to have a 23pin plug and cable to the actual unit to give a bit of flex. At 50mm(W) x 80mm(L) x18mm (H). It looks like it will fit snuggly into to the smallest Dick Smith zippy box?.
Cheers and well done! Luv the "Made in Australia"!
Gertsy
I posted about it on EAB a while back. The only way for me to test the S-Video output was to connect it to my DVD player, as my TV has no S-Video input. The picture looks nice, but it rolls continuously :( I then bought an LCD TV thinking I was going to use that, only to discover that some LCD TV's don't like the signal from the Amiga. So I am not able to experience the joy of lovely S-Video myself :( Which means I can only photograph a rolling image.
Be carful with the external dimensions of enclosures. Internals are another matter entirely, especially if the lid is held on by screws. I might have to buy one of those to check, since they are only AUD$2.50 each.
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Hi,
How about support for different native (no graphics card) display modes?
320x400, 640x400
320x200, 640x200
how do these work under: a2000, 4000, 3000?
Per private email send to you, we'd be willing to test this device for you under different amiga systems.
PS Note to all: this is not a flicker fixer but native resolutions should work fine ???
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Hi,
How about support for different native (no graphics card) display modes?
320x400, 640x400
320x200, 640x200
how do these work under: a2000, 4000, 3000?
Per private email send to you, we'd be willing to test this device for you under different amiga systems.
PS Note to all: this is not a flicker fixer but native resolutions should work fine ???
It works fine on any resolution I set from WB. Of course, interlaced looks crap, with the flickering and all.
It has been tested on my A500, A600 and A1200. In regards to the other Amigas, if they have a 23 pin video port on the back, like the others mentioned, there is no reason why it wouldn't work exactly the same. If there are any problems, I will happily refund, as long as items are sent back to me in the same condition I sent them. I have not once ever had to refund anyone for a single item I have sold, nor have I ever received a single complaint :D
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To the others regarding photos, I will do it shortly. Although it is a little pointless perhaps? I will do it anyhow, but I can only take photos of Composite out, due to some issue with my equipment :-( I will get my friend Cammy here in Australia to take some photos of it operating in S-Video, since she has TV's with S-Video inputs :)
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I took lots of photos, but because they are of a CRT screen, they all look pretty lousy. My first customer, an Australian, received his, and said the S-Video was nice and clear and so on, so there is nothing wrong with the adapter, it's my lousy equipment - but I already knew that. I sent Cammy her adapter the other day, so she should have it soon. She's an Amiga's amiga, so I'm sure she will report about my adapter, and hopefully get some good photos of S-Video :)
My adapter doesn't convert PAL to NTSC or vice versa. It is not a flicker fixer or scan doubler. It takes an RGB signal, and converts it to PAL or NTSC. Trying to display a PAL image on an NTSC TV or a NTSC image on a PAL TV will probably never look right. Unless you have an expensive TV with some sweet circuitry, or a converter. So for a correct aspect etc, I recommend to use it with all NTSC or all PAL equipment. Mixtures of either will probably not yield satisfactory results.
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Hey everyone, I've received one of these adapters from AmigaManiac and it works great! Composite is sharper than the A520 and the S-Video is rock solid, no colour bleeding, no rolling, no distortion at all. You can admire all the lovely pixelart as if you had plugged your Amiga into an RGB monitor.
I'll be taking some pics of the unit and the output as soon as I can!
Thanks Nathan :)
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Heya everyone! I have taken a few photos of the games room TV running Babylonian Twins through S-Video on my A500. Sorry about the size, but it's important to see the detail, and sorry about the angle I was on, the cord wasn;t long enough for me to sit right in front of the screen.
I'll post a link to a quick video we made once it finishes uploading to YouTube.
http://home.exetel.com.au/amiga/FirstLevel.jpg
http://home.exetel.com.au/amiga/TitleScreen.jpg
http://home.exetel.com.au/amiga/Spear.jpg
http://home.exetel.com.au/amiga/DogAttack.jpg
My TVs aren't very good, so hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to borrow an LCD TV and see how it looks though that!
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Well, my silly little video finally finished uploading properly after a few tries. You'll have to excuse the way I look, it was very late at night and I don't wear makeup so try not to throw up.
Unfortunately there's just no way to show the sharpness of the video output like this, but it at least shows that there's no rolling, or dot crawl, which I find are the most annoying problems with Composite.
I'll take more pics and videos soon!
Here's the video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTLvrhlNdyc
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Thanks for the pics and video! Awesome Amiga setup you have over there in Australia.
So this device handles PAL & NTSC modes just fine? And characters/sprites/backgrounds
that scroll do not exhibit any motion blur of any kind?
Edit - just caught the last post on the other page. Guess you need to order either a PAL
or NTSC unit.
BTW: you look great with or without makeup! No worries :-)
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I think I'm going to have to throw one of these on my next order from the AmigaManiac.
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Hey guys. These adapters have a little switch on them for PAL and NTSC, so you just order the one unit, and switch it to whichever setup you have. Everything that scrolls seems very smooth, although there's always some motion blur from fast moving objects, but that's natural, not caused by the Amiga or the adapter.
I have made another video now showing my A1200 output through the S-Video adapter on an LCD TV. I'm so happy to see the monitor has a built-in flicker-fixer, so in Super High Res Interlaced with a bit of overscan it can fit any webpage on screen, and theres no annoying flicker. The LCD TV is a 19" MXT LCD1904HDD and it has a built-in DVD player, HD tuner, VGA, HDMI, S-Video, Component, Composite, RF, Coax, PC-audio inputs, so it will hook up to just about anything.
Anyway, here's the video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaz6fNpHYIg
I hope you enjoy the music :)
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Time to throw away the Indivision!
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Thanks for the PAL/NTSC clarification Cammy. The video looked impressive. Nice, crisp
and clear. Guess I should place an order for one of these real soon :-)
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I got mine today. (o:
Soldered it up. I wanted a cable on mine so I dont have to worry about it sticking out the back of my valuable Amigas. The instructions are clear and i used an old Amiga-Scart cable (with the scart plug removed)
The Composite is like composite fine for games but no good for text. I tested it on a 68" Panasonic CRT TV and a 15" LCD monitor with composite. No better or worse than the A520 modulator. So a good replacement for anyone who's A520 is on the way out.
Then I tried S-Video. Both on the 15" LCD and on our fairly new (2007) but cheapy LCD TV we have in the kitchen. It's a 16:9 (Widescreen) DTV(SD) with all the std vid inputs.
S-Video is clear!
On the DTV it's better than the 15" LCD even for text and workbench. I was very impressed.
The image is clear, colourful and has deep contrast. Even my wife was impressed by the image of the red Ferrari in TD II.
On the down side there is a barely perceptable "strobing" and grid effect when viewing mid strength colours from the sides, but from straight on it is clear.
The messas in the distance in Test Drive II have no bleeding at all. I have some photos but it's hard to see the quality from screen images. I will find somewhere to put them as they will be too small on amiga.org. Suggest you look at Cammy's video as it shows it all.
Very impressed !
I will test it on S-Video on my CRT TV when I have enough time to pull the giant mother of a TV out of the wall unit to plug in the cable. I am guessing an S-Video CRT TV will give as good or better results than the LCD TV.
Well done Nathan!. A top piece of kit and very affordable.
Classic owners with S-Video equipment... Get one !
Gertsy
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@gertsy
Thanks mate, I'm glad you're happy with it :)
Since composite is all I can view at my place (*sigh*), I found I could get a very sweet picture with careful tuning and patience. Text was fine and readable for me on WB (inc. shell window), not sure about a WP program though. Be careful of the brightness and contrast settings, perhaps colour too, when using composite. I found that can make a difference too. But why anyone would bother with composite that can use S-Video is beyond me. It's like drinking a warm beer on a hot summers day, when you have an ice cold one in the fridge - madness :P I only included it as it was so easy, and some people may not yet have a means to view the sweetness of S-Video. Of course, you were testing it out of curiosity...
With your LCD TV, they have a certain viewing range/angle. When you get to the limits of that, or outside of it, the picture will look funny. It could also be the TV itself, or you might need to tweak (tune) the RGB adapter just that teeny tiny bit to get the best picture. It will look better on your CRT TV for sure. Just look at those photos Cammy took! :D
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Agree on the LCD TV. It is fine straight on, and it is a cheapy CONIA (very cheap in Aus) but very usable as a personal monitor.
Some people are purists though and expect perfect out of a $30 box so I told it like it is.
Yes I have tested it on the 68" CRT it looks fantastic so the kids will luv "bubble and squeek" on the A500.
IMO S-Video is better than straight Amiga RGB to larger displays (The 15" LCD monitor I have accepts straight Amiga RGB 15k through the VGA). RGB looks "too" sharp for GFX in that you can see the defined pixels whereas S-Video gives you a "filtered" or smooth look which is much better for classic games.
It's almost the valve amp v transistor amp scenario.
Now I need to find a nice Jiffy box to put it in.
cheers
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Yep, composite will never be that great, because it's...well...composite - a.k.a. composhite :) I don't think anyone would expect magic from a composite image, especially from a computer. BTW, I thought your review was great, and is much appreciated :)
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Today the RGB to PAL adapter arrives. It gives a sharp picture and has the same quality as the internal S-video adapter from DJBase.
Thank you, AmigaManiac.