Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: spihunter on October 30, 2003, 01:40:44 AM
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Has anyone heard anything new about the Amiga Mozilla project? Its been awhile since any news.
Is anyone attempting to port it?
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yes and i belive its a sleeping beauty...
i donated money in hope to see something...
but yet nothing...but then again i didnt expect it to arrive until summer 2004.
:)
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i wonder the same....
if i was a developer and had hardware to develope on, i would for sure do it for this amount of money...
I guess there isnt just enough amiga developers this days :-(
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I donated too, all be it not a lot... Im still hopefull, although the list has gone very very quiet lately... :(
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Tomas wrote:
i wonder the same....
if i was a developer and had hardware to develope on, i would for sure do it for this amount of money...
On a dare, I downloaded the sources to Firebird (which is a cut down Mozilla, without news or mail reader) and had a quick look around. I am of course a complete amateur and have looked at things for just 30 minutes or so, but since I do have some experience with porting Unix programs... Let's see what I came up with.
The sources are huge. They span well over 300 MB. Yes, 300.000.000 bytes of human-readable ASCII! Rule out developing on any Amiga-platform: you'd be old and grey before the computer finishes compiling. Since you must link to Amiga-style libraries, you need to port the linker, use something like AROS, or hack the Makefiles as to allow you to transport the object files to an Amiga to complete the job. It contains calls to fork()---the Unix-to-Amiga porting nightmare. It uses modern run-time code library techniques, which have to be ported. The Boehm garbage collector has been ported, but is severely restricted in its capabilities. For example, it only manages FastMem, and cannot be used in multi-threaded programs, and Firebird makes ample use of threads. Manual memory allocation in this program is out of the question. To add insult to injury, a quick search on Aminet revealed there is no port of pthreads. I have not looked at the networking code, and I'm not going to begin about the difficulties of the toolkit and GUI.
All that for $4000? I would be very impressed if someone did all of the above and more for that small a fee in a reasonable time frame. Perhaps he'd better relocate to Hyperion to help them out with AmigaOS 4 (and 5 as an encore) first. I'm sure the company wouldn't mind such a vast input of coding skills at such a bargain price.
I have no wish to sound negative, but I consider the chances of Mozilla/Firebird ever appearing on OS3.9 and lower to be very slim at best; a little higher on OS4.0 and above since this OS is likely to have internal features which should facilitate porting this complex program. But even then I suspect the reward must gain at least another digit, and preferably two, before you see a port appear.
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@Cymric,
Maybe the news has been quiet latley because they
are waiting for OS4 to arrive so they can port it to that.
I wouldnt want to run any version of mozilla on a 68k
OS 3.9 unless it was Amithlon.
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When the AmiZilla campaign started up, fleecy said AI wouldn't be contributing because they had their own "state of the art HTML matrix of capabilities" or some such thing planned. I imagine this kind of chilled the AmiZilla effort as far as AmigaOS is concerned, which would be a shame if fleecy was just blowing smoke because AI couldn't contribute financially. On the other hand, if AI really does have something coming, then AmiZilla apparently won't be needed.
On the MorphOS side, Genesi was more or less supportive of AmiZilla but the last I heard was that there were questions about what exactly to port, what alternatives might be used instead of the Firebird sources, etc. I think getting Pegasos II out has pretty much put everything else on the back burners. For sure both MorphOS and AmigaOS will need a modern web browser if they want to be taken seriously as a desktop OS.
-- gary_c
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There are a couple of teams working on it, it is a big project and they only are able to do it part time. More contributions would motivate the team to work on it longer each day I am sure. I have not issued any press releases or progress reports on it lately since my son got badly burned and that has been my full focus. I am not the programmer of AmiZilla though, just the one the got the project started. A project of this size normally takes 12-18 months.
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@Pyromania,
If you could re-hype it again with more info, then maybe
more people would be willing to donate.
I'm really suprised that Amiga or Genesi havent hinted
on having their own native browser for their OS. This should
be the #1 App on the list after the usual standards.
Sorry to here about your son. Thats an terrible experience
to go through.
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I agree spihunter, a modern web browser is the #1 app needed for OS 4 and MorphOS, how can any OS be successful without a modern browser? That is why I started the project, I am very sad that the Amiga still does not have a port of Netscape or something close to it after all these MANY years. Most computer users use a browser and e-mail most of the time on their computers. OS 4 & MorphOS must have Mozilla at all costs if they will succeed.
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@Pyromania ,
when most people sit down to their computers after work/Play/etc... the first thing they do is check their
homepage and their email. I know the peg/amiga1 is
aimed at the current geek market but, even the few amiga geeks
I know dont use their amiga anymore because the browsers
are so out dated that it just turns into a frustrating experience.
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As soon as I win the lotto, I'll boost the booty to where SOMEONE will want to port it.
Of course, if I win the lotto, I'm gonna BUY Amiga's IP. :-D
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It would be nice to see it, but it is a huge project. I dont see it happening any time soon. For now Ibrowse is a good start.
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I agree. That was some of the best cash I spent in a while.
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spihunter wrote:
@Cymric,
Maybe the news has been quiet latley because they are waiting for OS4 to arrive so they can port it to that. I wouldnt want to run any version of mozilla on a 68k OS 3.9 unless it was Amithlon.
I refer you to the third of the AmiZilla Guidelines (http://www.discreetfx.com/AmiZillaGuidelines.htm) which states:
3. The AmiZilla Project must fully compile with running binaries on each of the following Amiga-like OS's: OS3.1, OS3.5+, MorphOS, UAE, Amithlon, DraCo. (Hint: don't hit the hardware, and stick to OS3.1: MUI, ClassAct 2, some internal gadget system, and bgui are acceptable). -etc.
I'm afraid OS3.x- compatibility really is a bridge too far.
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@Cymric
What advantages does OS4 (or MorphOS) offer for this project,othe than speed ?
Do they supply forking, POSIX, GTK+ ???
The answer is:
NO
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The answer is:
NO
@kronos : how do ya know ?
just to give some hope again :-o
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@shiva
You know how it works in Amiga-land:
1. Make an annoucment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it.
Can equally be applied to red, blue, green or yellow.
:-o
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Kronos wrote:
@Cymric
What advantages does OS4 (or MorphOS) offer for this project,other than speed? Do they supply forking, POSIX, GTK+ ??? The answer is:NO
The advantages are that the memory interface has been enhanced; that the library interface has been enhanced; that the legacy BCPL has been removed (in other words, dos.library is a proper library (http://os.amiga.com/cam/index.php?i=5&p=4) at bloody long last---kudos to Colin Wenzel for his efforts); that there is better support for threads. Not Earth-shattering enhancements, but you have to agree that it will certainly help a bit, thus slightly increasing the chance of Mozilla/Firebird appearing on OS4+. Notice the subtle use of the word slightly ;-).