Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: Gulliver on June 30, 2009, 12:19:04 AM
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Would you be willing to pay $100 for an updated Classic AmigaOS? What features would you request for it to implement, enhance or bugfix? (Please do avoid senseless crap about DVD players for a poor 68k cpu, be realistic about what you can actually expect).
For example, in my case i would defintely pay $100 for the following integrated AmigaOS enhancements:
-DHCP support on a TCP-IP stack
-A CSS capable web browser that works on AGA/RTG
-A decent file decompression program WITH FILE COMPRESSION support
-An updated easier to use HDToolbox program
-A video player that supports FLV, WMV, MPG, QT and AVI, much like RiVA did with MPG, supporting both AGA and RTG
-A decent CD/DVD filesystem handler that supportd UDF, Multisessions, Dual layer DVDs
-An integrated CD/DVD burner application
-New Filesystems support: NTFS(Win7), HFS(Mac), ext4(linux) and one for efficient flash storage
-New and highly optimized BMP, PNG and TIFF datatypes
-A fully working version of MUI or an AROS optimized zune port
Thats it
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Isn't this what AmiKit, AmigaSYS, and others aim to do? No one in the cumminity has access to OS3 source code in a way that allows them to distribute updates, so we'd need Amiga, Inc.'s license to move forward. I don't think anyone considers that a serious possibility.
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Hi, intesting question... personally, I'd pay that money for an updated AmigaOS4.x for Classics... it makes more sense to me.
Would you be willing to pay $100 for an updated Classic AmigaOS? What features would you request for it to implement, enhance or bugfix? (Please do avoid senseless crap about DVD players for a poor 68k cpu, be realistic about what you can actually expect).
For example, in my case i would defintely pay $100 for the following integrated AmigaOS enhancements:
Let's see...
-DHCP support on a TCP-IP stack
Miami?
-A CSS capable web browser that works on AGA/RTG
Netsurf 68K?
-An updated easier to use HDToolbox program
Why? It already supports large drives.. and it's easy to use!
-A video player that supports FLV, WMV, MPG, QT and AVI, much like RiVA did with MPG, supporting both AGA and RTG
Hmmm... prolly, unfortunately those are low quality formats... no sense to me now since 68K (even a 060) doesn't have enough power...
-A decent CD/DVD filesystem handler that supportd UDF, Multisessions, Dual layer DVDs
AllegroCDFS? CacheCDFS? AFAIK, It does support UDF.. dunno about Dual layer DVDs though
-An integrated CD/DVD burner application
Why would you pay for this when you have makecd for free?!
-New Filesystems support: NTFS(Win7), HFS(Mac), ext4(linux) and one for efficient flash storage
Well, the are already drivers for reading NTFS and ext(X).. you can read MAC volumes with a mac emulator...
-New and highly optimized BMP, PNG and TIFF datatypes
Well, there is warp datatypes, pretty good.. low cost, PNG one is outdated though, I don't know about the rest... there's the other option , the AK ones... which afaik, are free and updates regularly!
-A fully working version of MUI or an AROS optimized zune port
I'd probably pay for this last one for OS 3.x.. but.. I'd definately be more interested in OS 4 update/bug fix release.
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AOS3 is dead. It would be just a waste of money and time. But there is AROS since years which is OS3-API compatible so I wonder why nobody ever did an 68k Port for the classics? I am sure it would give the classic users what they need and won't get with AOS3.
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No. It would be interesting specially if a 1Ghz 68K came out, but unfortunately it's not gonna happen....
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No. It would be interesting specially if a 1Ghz 68K came out, but unfortunately it's not gonna happen....
Elbox's mythical Dragon might reinvigorate things as well, but to move beyond nostalgia, it would have to do something--anything--that a less expensive, state of the art Windows, Linux, Mac OS, or game system doesn't already do better.
6LoWPAN? (An up to date port of Contiki could do that.)
A general purpose natural speech recognition user interface in multiple languages?
Natural and seamless, general purpose parallel processing?
An operating environment that blurs the lines between local and distributed (cloud, clustered, whatever) computing? An operating environment on top of a virtual machine (pay attention: Sun/Oracle and Microsoft know damned well what they're doing with Java and .NET, and hypervisors/virtual machine monitors, while established, provide logical partitioning and nothing more) that transparently locates and consumes remote execution resources?
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MUI 3.8 can still be registered, though I would pay money for MUI 3.9 or 4.0 to be backported to 68K.
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Would you be willing to pay $100 for an updated Classic AmigaOS?
No I wouldn't. I have Amiga OS 4.1 and I wouldn't go back to a 68k machine.
Hans
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I might have until I had a chance to play with OS4.1 on the Flex. I'm hooked all over again.
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Yes I would definately pay. We should really organize an official update.
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I have donated to AmiKit, which I really like and have no regrets for doing so, and I have requested to have an easy install script that would optimize as many of its features and programs as are possible, to run on my A4000 w/060/50MHz & 604e/233MHz, but its author has not agreed to provide such an optimization and script and has left that task to others, which I regret, but accept that he has other priorities in his life and I appreciate what he has done to create and maintain AmiKit, the best, or one of the best enhancements of the WinUAE emulator program.
I will probably check out AmigaSYS some day, which does have an optimized version for Classic Amigas. I have also checked on the progress of volunteer efforts to create a Boing Bag 3 for AmigaOS3.9 installations. But to answer the original question, Yes, I would probably pay $100 for an update to AmigaOS3.9 for 68060 Amigas depending on what was included with it and how it was provided. I don't see much sense in creating it for stock 68000 Amigas, and I am skeptical that it would be worthwhile on anything less than a 68030/40MHz, or 50MHz w/68882 and at least 32mb of Fast RAM.
It would have to be a step up from what is available already in several different places (mostly for free) and it would have to have a good install script so that I would not have to fight with its installation for days, weeks or months.
I could see it taking advantage of and being bundled with the IndivisionAGA4000 and Deneb cards to make a very useable and fun again Amiga, but then I am one of those old timers that still believes that a lot of fun can still be had with a fast 68060 and/or PPC accelerated Amigas.
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I might have until I had a chance to play with OS4.1 on the Flex. I'm hooked all over again.
Hey Jeff, bring that SAM440flex to AmiWest 2009 in October so I can see how you have it set up and compare it to my Efika running MorphOS2.2. I would love to meet you there this year, it is going to be a great time for all that attend. Even better than last year!
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I would pay for an updated IBrowse that has CSS support, and I'd pay for MUI 3.9/4.0 too.
Netsurf probably wouldn't be very responsive on an AGA 030 A1200, but IBrowse really is.
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Yes I would definately pay. We should really organize an official update.
Better yet, let us keep it UNOFFICIAL and away from Amiga Inc.
I would rather see a group of developers provide a cohesive and well thought out Boing Bag 3 type of update to AmigaOS3.9, which I don't think would need any involvement from the actual holders of the AmigaOS copyrights, who ever that may be this week.
That way the money would most likely actually get to the developers who provide the new updates to the OS.
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Would a workbench replacement be an advantage for OS3.9?
If the WB was replaced could OS3.9 have the bells and whistles of OS4.0?
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I would, but it would be too much work to actually do properly. It would have to be forgiving to new users. It would have to be able to "Show" all files and formats naively in a window, without having to keep "turning it on".
And the BIG KICKER would be -it would have to handle all of the most popular compression schemes without having to hunt down tons of "supporting" programs to make them work. This is by far the most frustrating thing to a new user with all the IHA,ADF,DMS, ETC. It would have to "just work" with those formats, just by double clicking on them.
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I'd pay for an OS 4.1 for old PPC Macs!
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I would, but I want an accelerator card that can get more from the new OS.
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Sorry, I'm about as die hard Amiga as you can get... and I own 11 Amiga A4000s... and I do have OS4 running on a 233mhz PPC... but once my first SAM arrived it's never been turned on since...
And now my second SAM is 1 gig etc... my first SAM doesn't get turned on... well, actually it's only supposed to be a backup board and I assure you it loves the inside of a anti-static bag... Italy is a long way from NZ... lol
I will setup an older Amiga at some stage but not anytime soon...
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Would you be willing to pay $100 for an updated Classic AmigaOS?
No.
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Sorry, I'm about as die hard Amiga as you can get... and I own 11 Amiga A4000s... and I do have OS4 running on a 233mhz PPC... but once my first SAM arrived it's never been turned on since...
And now my second SAM is 1 gig etc... my first SAM doesn't get turned on... well, actually it's only supposed to be a backup board and I assure you it loves the inside of a anti-static bag... Italy is a long way from NZ... lol
I will setup an older Amiga at some stage but not anytime soon...
11 A4000's!!! You need to sell a few of those to new recruits and make some new Amiga users with half of those machines. (just a suggestion)
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Would you be willing to pay $100 for an updated Classic AmigaOS?
No, I have OS 4.1 and it's enough for my needs.
Varthall
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But there is AROS since years which is OS3-API compatible so I wonder why nobody ever did an 68k Port for the classics? I am sure it would give the classic users what they need and won't get with AOS3.
compile just AROS is too incompatible, i guess only 1% of 68k programs run then.there are so much problems when AROS run on 68k that it is near impossible to find easy out what the problem is.
So the only way can go is AFA OS.merge more and more AROS funcs in thats new on AROS and let Code that need not change run from OS3.x.So can get with less work a enhanced AOS.AFA OS is no patch, it replace the func complete.and some libs as diskfont library or icon library are 100% replaced.exec can replace by 99% but i dont do, because warpup powerup is load before AFA (when datatypes load)and when AFA replace exec funcs powerup warup do not work
and AFA OS is since years here, run known Bug free and have near same most need features as MOS or OS4.In theory can replace then more and more funcs with AROS code, but my goal is have with lessest work something enhanced stable running with many software.I have not the time to spend work that give me no new features.
also the 68k is dead PPC is future propaganda do the job i think good.
there is less working together on diffrent system MOS AROS OS4 68k see and programs must port twice or more from beginning.
I want use a modern amiga system and PPC AOS is not good enough for me, i want much software as possible and want the software run fast as possible and i dont want a highprice Hardware when i know i can emulate faster as this hardware.
here can see how fast it can be.this test do much memtransfer and when 68k emulate on X86 much byteswap need do.but its very fast
http://utilitybase.com/forum/index.php?action=vthread&forum=21&topic=1720&page=0
and this i can realize most easy when AOS is more and more increase with AROS Parts
I do that for my usage only, and i need no money but i need time, have many hobbies, so also when pay money i do not replace all AOS3 code with AROS code so AFA can boot without AOS components.
sure i know many from PPC side bashes against AFA and say it is crap because it is a patch, but everybody can test it on a UAE AFA run stable and there are no Bugs known currently.
but there is still the kickrom replace bounty
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oh, at the beginning i thought a classic version of os4.1 is the subject..
well, i dont know if i would pay for a complete new 68k os. maybe i would not be able to resist to check into it as i wasnt witht the classic os4, but i dont see much point in an os3.x replacement except if it was open source and made the 68k independent of amiga inc licencing.
i find my current os3 build working satisfactory. all the single issues named in this thread can be handled as stand alone apps or patches done independently by single devs and this is how it is done today and most probably in the future. i think this way it is what makes the community interacting, fun and lively, rather than waiting months or years for some release being quietly forged somewhere in the closet.
edit: what i would definitely pay for is a faster hw for os3.x, an accel for my a4k being my fav choice. dont bash me for it.
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11 A4000's!!! You need to sell a few of those to new recruits and make some new Amiga users with half of those machines. (just a suggestion)
@amigadave; I agree, Ive never had an A4000 before so qualify for a new recruit, yeah?.
Pick me pick me!
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I would pay up to 1.000 euros if this "update OS3.9" had a Natami bundled with it :-)
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In the 1.3 days there was ARP, which was a rewrite of most CLI commands. How many of you remember being excited about ARP? I sure was, did an arpified 1.3 workbench disk as soon as I could get my hands on the package. :-)
Now we have AROS, which is a rewrite of much more.
Embrace that if you want an "updated classic AmigaOS", it's a waste of time debating an upgrade when a rewrite is already well on it's way.
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I can´t get all this AROS excitement.
Have played with it before, and it´s really interesting. It´s also a huge achievement from all the guys that work at it, and i praise them.
But as it´s incompatible with the software library for OS 3.x, what´s the point in running AROS? It´s a cool system as i said, but it doesn´t replace OS 3.x?
I would not pay for an update though. It´s really difficult to imagine some update that would be written from scratch, without just packaging all the known patches and utilities we have laying around for so long. And as i find entertaining building my system with all these apps, this kind of update would take much of the fun away ;-)
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Agreed, most people wont touch AROS with a 10 foot pole.
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Would you be willing to pay $100 for an updated Classic AmigaOS?
Eek. Difficult to answer. I probably wouldn't. I'd be more enclined to purchase whatever I need to run 4.1. Not sure. Depends on the day, the medicine, the most current frustrations, broccoli and other factors.
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I would pay $100 for someting like MorphOS 2.x for 68k. That would rock on my UAE-EeePC. But since I know that this is rather unlikely to happen I toy around with AFA OS. It offers nice enhancements for OS3.x. But eventually it is miles away from MorphOS.
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Would you be willing to pay $100 for an updated Classic AmigaOS? What features would you request for it to implement, enhance or bugfix? (Please do avoid senseless crap about DVD players for a poor 68k cpu, be realistic about what you can actually expect).
For example, in my case i would defintely pay $100 for the following integrated AmigaOS enhancements:
-DHCP support on a TCP-IP stack
-A CSS capable web browser that works on AGA/RTG
-A decent file decompression program WITH FILE COMPRESSION support
-An updated easier to use HDToolbox program
-A video player that supports FLV, WMV, MPG, QT and AVI, much like RiVA did with MPG, supporting both AGA and RTG
-A decent CD/DVD filesystem handler that supportd UDF, Multisessions, Dual layer DVDs
-An integrated CD/DVD burner application
-New Filesystems support: NTFS(Win7), HFS(Mac), ext4(linux) and one for efficient flash storage
-New and highly optimized BMP, PNG and TIFF datatypes
-A fully working version of MUI or an AROS optimized zune port
Thats it
Hi,
I would pay $100 for an updated OS for the Classic Amiga, but only if they made it for the Classic Amiga, not that PPC processor type, face it PPC is dead, the only way Amiga is going to move forward is to pick a cheap usable computer system like a PC and build a new Amiga OS that works on a PC, I would include Apple, but I hate Apple computers. Why make an Amiga OS for a PC, because I believe that the Amiga OS is one of the few OS's where you know what is going on, you know what is in your startup sequence, devs, libs, etc. so it is harder for these morons to infiterate your computer and add stuff like malware, spyware, trackers, etc. so why would I want an updated OS for the classic Amiga, it would be nice to have an updated web browser, auto install DHCP etc. but in most my views the Classic Amiga is a dead unit, there is no way to get software developers interested in a machine that is this old, so we need to think of not only a new OS but a machine that is upgradeable so that software developers might take an interest in the new Amiga.
smerf
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If they brought out an ehanced and stable OS3.9+ which was targeted at AGA only with 030/060 only then I'd be interested in buying it....I just wouldn't want to pay much for it ;)
It's shame OS3.9 is such a mess, it seems like it was targeted at everything from the low range 020 4mb ram running in 16 colours on a interlaced TV to PPC user's running RTG....oh well.
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Depending on the update, really.
Some your suggestions make perfect sense.
There is one AGA/RTG CSS capable web browser on the way ( see merlin http://home.planet.nl/~spijk336/browser/home.html )
There is an ext2 (/3?) driver, ntfs i've seen either for mos or os4 or something, but why would we need nfs?
This would be practical practical
-A fully working version of MUI or an AROS optimized zune port
-A decent CD/DVD filesystem handler that supportd UDF, Multisessions, Dual layer DVDs
-An integrated CD/DVD burner application
-New and highly optimized BMP, PNG and TIFF datatypes
Maybe you should read this, focusing on common ground could be the way to go.
http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2968&forum=21
Which would either mean MUI4 or Zune, updated libraries to at least provide some compatibility with os4/mos/aros. SDL for AGA is something i miss, all apps are RTG these days, disregarding the fact that AGA is good enough with http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/gfxroute http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/fblit http://www.platon42.de/files/util/TLSFMem.lha http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/SystemPatch299 add some http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/BlizKick if capable, stir and you get a pretty snappy aga, If you were to command os39 to store icons and images in fast ram, its even faster (duh) .
A p96 AGA hack/driver would be neat.
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I can´t get all this AROS excitement.
Have played with it before, and it´s really interesting. It´s also a huge achievement from all the guys that work at it, and i praise them.
But as it´s incompatible with the software library for OS 3.x, what´s the point in running AROS? It´s a cool system as i said, but it doesn´t replace OS 3.x?
The point was, use AROS components to update OS3.x on the classic amiga. If the components are not backwards compatible, some more work is needed.
I don't care for the x86 build of AROS either.
Just like the ARP rewrote some of the 1.3 commands, the AROS project has rewritten a lot more than just a few CLI commands. And on top of it all, the source code is available.
You won't be getting the 3.x source code form amiga inc, or any of their affiliates, I'm sure, so why bother updating 3.1 when you can replace parts of it with code that is truly free and available?
I'm sure you're familiar with http://amidevcpp.amiga-world.de/afaupload.php ..
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@Gulliver
Yes, I'd pay for an updated Classic AmigaOS, why not? I paid for 3.5 & 3.9
:lol:
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Yep, I agree with fester... Depends on broccoli :)
As has been mentioned much of the needed updates to OS3 are available from 3rd parties ... I don't think I would spend the money, unless it was a significant update... and then who knows how well (or even if) it would run on 68K Amiga's .....
What I Would pay for, though, is some kind of 'smart troubleshooting' program. Example, something that could automatically check for common dumb mistakes like having V. 3.67 of FBlit in C: , but an older vers. of FBlit.library in LIBS: ( D'oh!) Etc. Maybe even checking an entire SYS: for incorrect versions of files, known program incompatabilities.... OK, I know it may not even be feasible, and would certainly require huge amounts of time, effort, and broccoli ... but it would help a lot of people.....
Marcb: I bought 3.5 and 3.9 too.... but I don't have so much extra money these days ....
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SDL for AGA is something i miss, all apps are RTG these days, disregarding the fact that AGA is good enough with
you can use SDL with AGA, when you use the CGX AGA driver.
the speed is of course not good, but the speed when use AGA and SDL is always worse because AGA use bitplanes and SDL use only chunky pixels.
the convert from planar to chunky is always a slow process
and next problem is that most users that have no GFX card on their amiga have a slow system.
SDL get popular when the CPU speed on X86 was over 100 MHZ.
so use a sdl program on a 020 or 030 CPU and AGA is really unusable slow.
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I would pay $100 plus for a port of whdload to OS4.1 that would make classic amiga games compatible and runable under the new OS 4.0 /4.1... I am a gamer so OS 4.1 sucks for me, and I will always run Classic Amiga OS 3.1 until somebody does this, because there is no migration path to OS 4.1 for gamers. So yes I would pay $100 for an updated Classic Amiga OS based on the fact I could run games on it...
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11 A4000's!!! You need to sell a few of those to new recruits and make some new Amiga users with half of those machines. (just a suggestion)
I understand the logic but you simply collect Amigas as you go along because you never sell anything Amiga... well, that's what has happened in my case...
I am considering selling a few A500s at some stage, going to build nice systems with A590s etc... got 25 of that model, SO... that's a few more than 11 and I wouldn't feel it so much ;-)
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I'd pay for an OS 4.1 for old PPC Macs!
I'd pay 200$ for MacMini PPC AmigaOS4 - or MorphOS!!
About this AROS story here again, it is not a functional system since it doesn't work on most PC/notebook SoC configurations (like mine hp530 and others, too). I bought some game for my laptop - HoM&M V - and it didn't work because of the embedded Intel graphics. But this is just a game, I got rid of the box, end of story. Operating system - another story. Especially when all decent Linuxes (Ubuntu, Fedora) install practically on anything. I am more to happy that iMica exists, but to me, that would be another (third) hardware at home - just like Sam for AOS4... My point is AROS team should really focus on SoC graphic drivers, since in say two years, 90% PCs will be notebooks. Basing on that assumption, AROS isn't a x86 compatible system now. Please take it into account while mentioning its tremendous benefits.
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I bought some game for my laptop - HoM&M V - and it didn't work because of the embedded Intel graphics. But this is just a game, I got rid of the box, end of story.
then you seem have a very old intel graphic.the 945 chipset is used in imica too and when AROS on this work, then it should work on all this many systems that use intel 945 chipset.but what always not good, there is no compatibility list of AROS HW.I think every user who get AROS running native should report his system, so a list can make and i thik that show that AROS run on much hardware types
but even if AROS not work native, it can use on linux or vmware and on PPC Hardware.
CPU is native and not emulate, and on a notebook that have 2* faster clockrate as a AOS PPC Hardware software should run faster.
but whats miss are programmers that support AROS with programs.
the marketing is also bad on AROS in compare to PPC AOS.
for example YAM run on AROS but there is no news or screenshot until now see.
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I understand the logic but you simply collect Amigas as you go along because you never sell anything Amiga... well, that's what has happened in my case...
I am considering selling a few A500s at some stage, going to build nice systems with A590s etc... got 25 of that model, SO... that's a few more than 11 and I wouldn't feel it so much ;-)
I totally understand collecting Amigas and never selling them. I still have my first A1000 that I started with and my collection had grown to over 20 Amigas at one time before I finally sold a couple. I am in the process of setting up the few that I want to keep the way I want them and then I want to sell the rest to people that will use them.
Better than that, I would like to find some non-Amiga users that have never seen one before and get them hooked on learning about Amigas and sell/give them an Amiga so it would contribute to growing our tiny community by a few new members. Maybe one of them will become a programmer and write something really great for our AmigaOS, MorphOS, or AROS (ICAROS) systems.
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Maybe one of them will become a programmer and write something really great for our AmigaOS, MorphOS, or AROS (ICAROS) systems.
This would be a rather more desirable outcome than the users I used to know back in the day who were happy to buy the hardware but preferred pirated software...
Could never work out how people could enjoy something they hadn't paid for...
I play 360 games at the moment and I've brought every one... thing is, I've finished them all as well... generally people who pirate software haven't got alot of time for finishing games they decide aren't quite up to spec... and generally if you buy it you would try harder too :hammer:
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yes argree 100 percent
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I'd pay $100 for a fully updated Amiga OS 3.9+ package that included a modern web browser and either had an integrated office pack or would still run the latter releases of Amiga wp/db/spreadsheets/presenters and that was optimized to run on (required at least) 68030 with minimum of 16 meg ram but would take full advantage of 68040 and 68060 with up to 128 ram.
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Thanks everyone for their comments!
Still at the end, I think as dead as it may seem, AmigaOS on Classics still rocks!
A few interesting things i found out:
1-There is a very cool web browser for 68k Amigas called Merlin, that is being developed to work on AGA. Hope the project still goes
2-I am not the only one who wishes to have an AGA Picasso96 driver. It would be the best thing to happen!
3-SDL for AGA on 040/060 machines, could be awesome.
Hopefully someone will help these projects to finally see the light.
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I am not the only one who wishes to have an AGA Picasso96 driver. It would be the best thing to happen!
cgx is lots faster, because of superlayer.also CGX support non rectangle layers also on 68k.
i wish more a winuae driver for CGX.
but AGA driver is for cgx here
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The best kept secret in the Amiga world is OS4.1 IMHO.
Once people get the taste of it, 68k is doomed.
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The best kept secret in the Amiga world is OS4.1 IMHO.
Shame that the hardware that it runs on is made of fail and aids.
Once people get the taste of it, 68k is doomed.
Right up until their hardware blows up.
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@cv643d
nah! Watching demos is much more exciting on old 680x0 based hardware.
As long as these next gen OSes don't offer memory protection I don't see many things that can be done that can't be done on 680x0. Moreover, 68k is some kind of "virtual machine" as it runs almost anywere. If I create something for 68k it will run everywhere, if I do it for OS4.1 just a handful of users will try it out.
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I guess this is where Natami comes in. Isn't the goal of Natami to provide more "horsepower" for OS3.x and its related software?
But back on topic... I would support an updated Classic Amiga OS.