Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: DJS on March 15, 2008, 11:08:33 PM
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Elbox Computer is pleased to announce releasing Mediator drivers for the Picasso96 gfx system for PCI graphic cards based on the ATI Radeon 9200 series chipset.
The Radeon 9200 series PCI cards features
- Dual integrated display controllers
- 64 or 128 MB of 64 or 128-bit 400MHz DDR SGRAM memory
- 400MHz integrated RAMDACs with refresh rates up to 200Hz
- resolution up to 2048x1536x32@85Hz
- two VGA, or one VGA and one DVI-I connector
- on board S-Video connector for TV-Out
Mission
The main goal of the releasing Mediator support for the Radeon 9200 series cards is a wide availability of these powerful, in-expensive, factory new cards in the PCI format.
Radeon Advantages
Apart from faster graphic engine, bigger memory compared with the Voodoo cards, the Radeon 9200 cards provide much faster PCI-to-PCI read accesses from their graphic memory. This feature results in increasing performance of the PCI busmaster cards (like Spider or FastEthernet), which use this memory for their DMA buffers.
Radeon Overlay Support
As the Elbox Radeon driver supports Radeon overlay function, the supported PCI TV tuner cards work on the Radeon screen in all PIP and backdrop modes (as shown at TV screenshots page (http://elbox.com/products/tv_screens.html)) without any Amiga processor load.
(http://elbox.com/gfx/sm.jpg) (http://elbox.com/products/extra_prod/screenmodes.html)Radeon & Voodoo cohabitation
The Radeon PCI card can be used in the Mediator systems together with the Voodoo gfx card, which allows work on two (or more) monitors simultaneousely. Here (http://elbox.com/products/extra_prod/screenmodes.html) you can see the list of currently supported screen modes in this configuration. In Mediator systems where two gfx cards are installed (Radeon and Voodoo), all DMA buffers are automatically redirected to the Radeon card memory.
Compatibility
The Radeon Mediator drivers are designed for all MEDIATOR models. However, as most of the Radeon 9200 PCI series cards require the 3.3V auxiliary PCI power supply, they will work out of the box only in the Mediator 1200 TX and Mediator 1200 SX busboards with the ATX power supply.
(http://eu-shop.elbox.com/gfx-shop/radeon9200m64_s.jpg) (http://eu-shop.elbox.com/cgibin/shop?info=710R92M)
PCI Radeon cards may also be used in other Mediator models, but it will require installing the Radeon card in the special PCI adapter which provides an auxiliary 3.3V power supply. Elbox is planning to produce a PCI 3.3V power adapter riser. It will include the bracket for the low profile Mobility Radeon 9200 card model available in Elbox Online Store (http://shop.elbox.com).
Availability
The OS3.x Radeon Mediator driver will be available free of charge for all Mediator Multimedia CD registered users in the upcoming 1.28 update.
The comprehensive list of supported Radeon cards will be available at the Mediator Driver Guide (http://elbox.com/mediator_driver_guide.html).
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So DVI and TV-out work? Does the driver use 2d hw acceleration, or is just simple framebuffer device? Any plans for adding 3d support?
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Those cards usually default to displaying a clone image on the TV-out connector. The DVI connector is used as primary display when a monitor is connected to it.
I assume that those are normal Radeon cards, and not modified ones.
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Instead of a riser card, would it not make more sense just to plug an extra PCI card in a free slot, with a power connector on it, just to supply the 3.3V to the rest of the bus??
Also, we don't get any OS4 support for the Radeon (yet)?
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Those cards usually default to displaying a clone image on the TV-out connector. The DVI connector is used as primary display when a monitor is connected to it.
Well, that stuff is set up by the x86 BIOS ROM, so it's not obvious that it works with the mediator drivers.
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It would make more sense, indeed, but only if the 3.3V pins of the PCI connectors were bussed on the Mediator. There were such "new adaptors" years ago when PCI was young on intel PCs, I even could get one from an old PC. It's a PCI card shaped PCB with a low drop regulator (5V -> 3.3V) with cooling device.
BTW, a modern PCI gfx cards takes around 4Amps. Linear regulation means: heating of (5V - 3.3V) * 4A = 6.8W. This is quite a lot, if you want an efficient way you will need a switching power supply and use the 12V rail, which usually is not so loaded in Amiga systems (I have such a prototype done for Prometheus, with 98% efficiency and 6A load).
Besides, this is one of the PCI Spec 2.1 things which were not implemented in the Mediator (claimed to comply to Rev 2.1 PCI Spec).
I posted on this issue on the Mediator list, but my posting (as well as any before after Elbox took over the list) has been censored by the list owners (aka: Elbox) without comment. So I post it here, as I don't like this kind of censorship. Apparently Elbox does not like the fundamental right of free speech:
> That's right - at least it is part of the truth.
> If you look carefully into the specification
> (which is available online on several web sites,
> just google for "pci21.pdf"), take a look on
> page 142 (section 4.3.4.1 - Power requirements):
>
> "Systems implementing the 5V signaling
> environment may either ship the 3.3V supply with
> the system, or provide a means to add it
> afterward (i.e., bus and decouple all 3.3V power
> pins) to support expansion boards that require
> it, but must provide the other three power rails
> with each system."
Michael
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I guess I shouldn't worry too much. It would be a very easy DIY job to retrofit the Mediator busboard with a 3.3V supply. It could easily be wired to each slot individually if necessary. That would be ideal anyway in case the traces on the board if they exist are too small, which I assume they would be.
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I posted on this issue on the Mediator list, but my posting (as well as any before after Elbox took over the list) has been censored by the list owners (aka: Elbox) without comment. So I post it here, as I don't like this kind of censorship. Apparently Elbox does not like the fundamental right of free speech:
How ironic that Amiga.org allowed bashing by a certain Elbox individual of competing products, yet they censor technical discussion on their list.
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...yet they censor technical discussion on their list.
Which is annoying for me (and Jens, which is also set "moderated" aka "censored" on the list). I guess they like happy customers only on their list, and I'm not one of them.
It's their list now, and not an independent one as it used to be, and if they feel like handling things in this old style way then it is their right.
As well as mine to express my opinion, and there are other free platforms to do so. :-)
Michael
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[color=000000]The OS3.x Radeon Mediator driver will be available free of charge for all Mediator Multimedia CD registered users in the upcoming 1.28 update.[/color]
free? how? the cd cost 35$...
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@amije
This is my biggest gripe about Elbox. I have given up faulting them for never shipping things like the Shark, but for their existing (real) products why the @#$@ can't they post their drivers online like a normal company?!
If they are concerned about security they could simply put the drivers behind a product registration, but nonetheless make them available. I requested a copy of the latest drivers via email 3 weeks ago and haven't gotten a single response.
It's also very easy for someone (if they ever get the drivers) to simply mirror them despite Elbox's distaste for such a maneuver so it's not like the CD is preventing people from sharing.
It's almost like they are deliberately making life difficult for people, just because they can.
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Poster: amije Posted: 2008/3/16 23:04:16
The OS3.x Radeon Mediator driver will be available free of charge for all Mediator Multimedia CD registered users in the upcoming 1.28 update.
free? how? the cd cost 35$...
I think you can download the updated drivers from their webpage if you have registerd your mediator like i have :-p
I am curious about trying this although i will use the voodoo3 for main gfx and radeon for dma buffer that could incrase performance ...
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When I registered my Mediator (new bought directly from Elbox, btw. very good communication, I got it after 10 days from order) next day I received update of the driver.
Drivers for Radeons 9200 are good thinks for me. I'm considering a chance from Voodoo do Radeon since I really don't like the stupid NAME of VOODOO :-D, yes NAME.
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@Adonay: i have register, yes, and i hope you are right. time will tell :-D
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@Piru
They could be bootstrapping the BIOS with an emulator, similar to the way it's done in MILO on Alpha, U-Boot on the AmigaOne, and many other non-x86 platforms. If they *are* doing that, a generic VGA driver (or a VBE driver with emulation) is possible, too. It's something I started working on, but my PCI memory access emulation wasn't working properly. I haven't looked at the code in a couple years.
@amije
Elbox makes money by rebranding and upselling commodity hardware and the associated software. And sometimes, they just sell you the hardware without telling you that you can't actually use it in an Amiga.
EDIT:
It may be too little, too late. Radeon 9200 cards are already becoming scarce. What cards there are, however, are less than what Elbox charges. If the Elbox price included a bundled 3.3V riser and a modified back plate, then I'd consider the price competitive given what's available at this moment.
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I will disagree. Can you find me a Mediator for other "platforms" or FastAta, 4xEide or mouse interfaces and other smaller hardware.
When you will show this hardware (which suppose to be re branded?!?) for other computers I will agree, if not your opinions are worth nothing.
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When you will show this hardware (which suppose to be re branded?!?) for other computers I will agree, if not your opinions are worth nothing.
Check a little hardware called Spider USB.
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@kreciu
I don't know for certain, of course, but I doubt Elbox is making money on the Mediator. More likey, they take a slight loss (or break even) on the Mediator to attract sales of add-on cards. If you know something the rest of us don't, feel free to elaborate.
Regardless, my comment was half sarcasm. Elbox doesn't have the best reputation among hardware and software developers. Given Elbox's history, one has to ask whether their other products were developed in-house or by an outside source.
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Can you read in English PLEASE?
I asked about:
Mediator
FastATA
4xEIDE
All this hardware is still updated (software and hardware).
You could ask me if Radeon or Voodoo is a product of Elbox?
Elbox on their web site wrote that Spider IS WORKING on PC and MAC.
Please tell me HOW Spider, Voodoo, etc. would work WITHOUT Mediator? I'm really interested.
And I'm waiting for Mediator etc. which was developed for OTHER computers. Please. :rtfm:
Ps. Where I can but NEW G-Rex, Prometheus?? Can I? Where was the last update for the drivers for anything? Maybe for Radeon 9200?
Ps. Please stop spiting into people faces.
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I know it's takes FOR EVER to release SOMETHING by Elbox... yeap I HATE that, especially showing in the shop something called SharhPPC for last X years... this drives me nuts ;)...
For sure they don't make money from Amiga. I think for them it's more hobby, since even when thay make something people COMPLAIN (without reason).
I like CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, this is NEEDED.
I really don't like telling that they have something, but we will "give" you (for $500) LATER.
:madashell: :madashell: :madashell: :madashell:
:-D
EDIT:
How could I use today TV card (I'm going to buy soon), graphic card, LAN, Soundblaser, soon USB on PCI etc? Are you suggesting me to wait for graphic card for Amiga FOR EVER to buy on eBay?
EDIT2:
I've just received new updated drivers.
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@kreciu
Easy, cowboy. English is obviously not your first language, and you've misunderstood the intent of my comments. Still, my own personal experiences with Elbox have not been good. Redrumloa's point regarding Spider is that it's a rebranded card modified to associate it with Elbox's software. There's plenty of documentation regarding that scandle. Google it.
I'd just like to see Elbox focus on more modern solutions. The Radeon 9200 has been discontinued by AMD/ATI, so the products in the pipeline today are all we'll ever see. What that means from a consumer standpoint is an inflated price for an obsolete product.
As a hobbyiest developer, I'd also like to see Elbox open up their documentation and do away with the non-disclosure agreement. I might have signed one, but Elbox didn't want to correspond with my attorney. (I'm sure they'll dispute that, but I have Malgorzata Binek's email saying as much.)
I don't think anyone ever expected the Shark to be released. Even if Elbox could somehow have sourced enough of the cards to meet demand at a reasonable price, I doubt Amiga, Inc. would have "authorized" its use. Now that OS4 for classics has been released sans Amiga, Inc, though, the ball is in Elbox's court. No one in the community is preventing them from following through on their promises.
Perhaps Elbox should work with Hyperion to produce a PS3 boot loader and PS3 device drivers for OS4. They could call it the "Multimedia CD PS3 Edition" and sell it to just about every Amiga fan boy out there. I'd even buy it. I don't know if Hyperion would go for that, but they don't seem to care too much about what Amiga, Inc. thinks these days.
EDIT:
I do own a Mediator Z-IV (and a Spider, which is completely useless in the Z-IV). If I can find a reasonably priced Radeon 9200 and make it compatible with my busboard, I'll give it a try.
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The comment was not for you (you didn't ask about Spider...). I don't like when people make NOT TRUE statements based on some small events (e.g. someone is not drinking at all, but when they find him drinking ONCE they make him alcoholic). I don't like somethings about Elbox BUT... ;)
;-)
I do expect Elbox to release SharkPPC :-D . But not that I can't live without it, you know... and yes, we all look at Elbox now.
I don't need for my 040/33 Radeon 3850 ;). This I can use with my Core2Duo 2.66Ghz. Radeon 9200 is something "from today" comparing ANY other graphic card for Ami. I was looking for Voodoo 3 around 3 months and payed $30 for what?
Ps. English is my third language :P
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English is my first and only language, so you've got me there. ;-)
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at this point i have to say that Elbox email me the new cd update and i want to thanks them.
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I received the system update but not the MM CD update.
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for me has happent the opposite :crazy:
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I got two files and my WB3.9 is running "on them". My friend got also 2 files/emails. You have really bad luck.
Ps. I can't see any difference in WB it's working fine 1440x900 on my Voodoo and 040/33.