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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: mordock on January 11, 2007, 09:18:37 AM
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Bassano del Grappa (Italy) 10/01/2007 - Alternative Holding Group, Soft 3 and Virtual Works created today ACube Systems Srl, a company born to take care of the production and commercialisation of the Sam440ep product line.
Sam440ep will be the first manufactured motherboard. The heart of Sam is the PowerPC 440, a System On Chip (SoC) made by AMCC under a licence from IBM.
The main characteristic of a SoC system is the presence, together with the CPU, of a number of integrated peripherals which allow to build a complete system with a huge savings of both development and debug time, with less components and space used on the PCB. This also results in a significant cost reduction for the customer.
As a consequence, the board doesn't need the classical northbridge / southbridge combination because a part of their functionalities are implemented in the CPU, and the balance is provided by other components and devices.
The availability is planned for the first quarter of 2007.
The new company will continue to do research and development for current projects for the embedded and desktop markets.
More news will be made available in the next weeks through the company website www.acube-systems.biz (http://www.acube-systems.biz).
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GPU? How will it handle a GPU and sound card? Will is support PCI & AGP or PCIe?
Otherwise, I can get more out of a Gamecube...
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Otherwise, I can get more out of a Gamecube...
OS4 on Gamecube? :lol:
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GPU? How will it handle a GPU and sound card? Will is support PCI & AGP or PCIe?
Need some info? :-D
GPU (info from Bitplane magazine):
onboard chip ATI Radeon Mobility M9 (9000 family) with 64MB RAM DDR onchip.
Clock: GPU 250MHz, RAM 200MHz, RAM DAC 400MHz.
Max res 2D/3D 2048x1536 pixel.
Connectors: DVI, S-Video and VGA, LVDS (50 pins) on internal header.
Audio:
onboard chip Cirrus Logic CS4281. Codec AC'97 Cirrus Logic CS4299, DA 20 bit AD 18 bit.
Other:
one PCI connector (only 3,3V) and one mini-PCI (124pin type3)
Otherwise, I can get more out of a Gamecube...
LOL :lol:
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I think the price of the board needs to be LOW if they expect to make any success of it. Efika is £140/200€ - that is quite expensive. If this is LESS and includes graphics which it does then it might be a worthwhile buy, IMHO of course! :-)
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so this is an amigaone, then?
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so this is an amigaone, then?
It does not meet Zico specifications.
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so this is an amigaone, then?
Allegedly ACube stands for A^3 == AAA == Advanced Amiga Architecture.
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Poster: AmiKit Posted: 2007/1/11 7:22:53
Quote:
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Otherwise, I can get more out of a Gamecube...
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OS4 on Gamecube?
The announcement said nothing of OS4. For a standalone compiled application, no OS involved, I could get as much or more processing power out of a Gamecube running a homebrew app vs. the same for this ACube. So if it costs anything over $200 with memory included, it's not worth it.
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I could get as much or more processing power out of a Gamecube running a homebrew app vs. the same for this ACube. So if it costs anything over $200 with memory included, it's not worth it.
But can you connect a hard drive and a keyboard+mouse to that gamecube? Will even nitendo let anyone run lets say a OS or a software application on it? I highly doubt so....
The gamecube is just a console, so no wonder why it is cheaper.
It hardly even has any ram, so how can you expect to run anything useful on it?
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http://www.gcdev.com/smf/
www.gc-linux.org
It doesn't matter what Nintendo "lets" you run on it. You run what you want to run on it.
There is a 3rd party "Nintendo"-approved keyboard for Phantasy Star Online 1 & 2, also ps/2 adapters are available for the controller ports. SD card adapters for the memory card ports.
There are already libraries that expose the entirety of the GC hardware for programming software...including an SDL library and using a filesystem from the DVD drive or SD card(FAT32).
Oh and with a $12 drive-chip you can boot straight from disc with no other additional hardware. So for $12, an AROS Live CD could be booted. A Wii version of the same chip is supposedly in development.
Homebrew GC software is already running on the Wii via Action Replay and an SD card adapter.
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Processing power wise the Sam440ep is actually slightly faster than the gamecube (if the specs/benchmarks are correct). No idea how the 3D graphics capabilities compare. It's a Radeon 9000 vs whatever the gamecube uses.
Hans
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Don't just look at clock speed. The GC's main memory is accessed much faster and has programmable cache and a fair amount of it. I also don't know the architectual differences between the IBM Gecko and the Freescale chip. The Freescale being an embedded chip, I'd give the internal cpu architecture edge to the GC as well.
As for gpu's, we know the GC had done 15 million polygons/second in real time (Star Wars:RG2) and can do 8 texture operations per pass. For 480p resolutions, it can hold it's own.
It's just a stepping stone to running on Wii hardware which offers a 50%-100% processing advantage to the GC.
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@lou_dias
Well stick with your Gamecube then? lol
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@neon32
Well stick with your Gamecube then
I was just gonna say where to stick his Gamecube, but you kinda beat me ;-)
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Anyone here who paid the, what was it, $800 for an AmigaOne think it wasn't worth it? Betcha there are some happy Efika users out there right now, even just running Linux at the moment... With MorphOS on the way, and maybe (and I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it were confirmed) OS4!
Sam440ep is already worth every cent, just from the previews... Of course not worth anything to *ME* without OS4.
And just to be snide, Gamecube will NEVER run OS4, so it is already worthless to me. As is every other game console in the world (except CD32 and CDTV, which are worth about $20 to me, cuz I'd probably pick one up for that if I had the opportunity.. Just cuz they're Amigas).
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I don't get it. Why should I be excited about this news? What's the Amiga angle?
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@weirdami
What's the Amiga angle?
Strickly speaking, there isn't one yet. We're still waiting for the OS4 bundle news I suppose. ATM this is a dev board with high Amiga hopes.
Plaz
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Are these the guys known as "the italians"? I remember hearing that monicker before back around when McEwen did his 25 questions thing.
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@weirdami
I think it's exciting and an Amiga angle because when McEwen said they'd be announcing OS4 and then a board that could run it in the new year it seems likely that this is that board.
@lou_dias
Well the GC gfx chip has some interesting features, but compared to a Radeon 9000 even the mobile one it takes quite a beating. Not to mention the odd hardware bugs in the GC and Wii versions of the chip that prevent 8888 framebuffer format, perspective correct color iterator (nasty issue) and a near useless clipper. Plus the GC and Wii have a segmented and fixed size memory architecture that probably saves Ninty more money than it really helps developers.
Nah I think this board is plenty interesting, i'm saving for an Efika at the moment (and a house :crazy:) but a version of this is definately on my shopping list if it runs OS4.
:-D
Andy
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I don't get it. Why should I be excited about this news? What's the Amiga angle?
Yeah I don't get it either especially when a 2001 Gamecube is just as capable and available since ... 2001.
Instead I'll just stick it.
What a great community.
Then people wonder why Amiga, Inc. doesn't communicate with it anymore.
Retards.
Atleast AJ knows what he's talking about. That being said, the Wii is still overall more capable and this ACube will never be a good desktop PC so again, what's the point? This thing won't run OS4 and I never mentioned the GC or Wii running OS4. However they can run AROS for less $$$.
In the end, it's another platform that even on the AROS front, will divert developers' time writing drivers and/or segmenting this (and I use the term loosely here) "community" further.
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@lou_dias
Yeah I don't get it either especially when a 2001 Gamecube is just as capable and available since ... 2001.
But it won't run OS4 tho will it (or ever likely to), so what's the point of even mentioning it?
What a great community
Yes it is an AMIGA community not a gamecube community!
That being said, the Wii is still overall more capable and this ACube will never be a good desktop PC so again, what's the point?
But it will be able to run OS4 unlike anything from Nintendo, you are the one totally missing the point. Amiga OS is small and light and will run very fast on the SAM440EP, ideal for a hobbyists machine.
This thing won't run OS4
Oh I think it will!
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Dr_Righteous wrote:
Anyone here who paid the, what was it, $800 for an AmigaOne think it wasn't worth it? Betcha there are some happy Efika users out there right now, even just running Linux at the moment... With MorphOS on the way, and maybe (and I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it were confirmed) OS4!
I paid the 700 quid (dont forget RAM and graphics card) and having just installed the Final OS4 I consider it money well spent. It was, after all 3.5 years ago, and I havent felt the (serious) need to upgrade.
Sam440ep is already worth every cent, just from the previews... Of course not worth anything to *ME* without OS4.
I'd buy one in a heartbeat, once it gets an OS4 licence. (oh - it has to get released too!)
[/quote]And just to be snide, Gamecube will NEVER run OS4, so it is already worthless to me. As is every other game console in the world (except CD32 and CDTV, which are worth about $20 to me, cuz I'd probably pick one up for that if I had the opportunity.. Just cuz they're Amigas).
[/quote]
no, I can't see it happening either - licences for a start, closed architecture (proprietary too!) for another.
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@weirdami
Are these the guys known as "the italians"?
LOL! I think every SAM news story should be accompanied by the monicker 'The Italians'!!
@lou_dias
I think the EFIKA is very good value for such a niche product.
It's a bit silly to compare these products with x86, VIA ITX or even MAC hardware that sell in 100s of thousands and even millions.
They are worth what people are prepared to pay for them - in the case of Sam being bundled with OS4 that is quite a lot. :-o
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But it will be able to run OS4 unlike anything from Nintendo, you are the one totally missing the point. Amiga OS is small and light and will run very fast on the SAM440EP, ideal for a hobbyists machine.
Your plus points for the SAM also apply to the Gamecube. Like it or not the Gamecube is just as capable of running OS4 as the SAM.
You appear to be under the impression that OS4 will definitely be available for the SAM. Acube still haven't confirmed whether they have a license.
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Your plus points for the SAM also apply to the Gamecube. Like it or not the Gamecube is just as capable of running OS4 as the SAM.
And you have to hack your console even to run it and thus breaking the law in some countries and it is also about to get completely discontinued. would even make more sense to port it to the ps2!
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And you have to hack your console even to run it and thus breaking the law in some countries and it is also about to get completely discontinued. would even make more sense to port it to the ps2!
LOL, so now who will pay to port PPC code the the PS2's CPU? Apart from converting UBOOT into a Gamecube executable (.DOL) and then drivers for the HAL, their isn't much else to port for the GC.
Anyway, this ACube doesn't currently have a license for OS4, so all this whining is moot. In effect, the Gamecube is currently more useful than the ACube because in the end, it still plays great games and the ACube has ZERO support.
Also, if any of you actually bothered to look into the GC homebrew/modding scene, you'd realize that "hacking" it is trivial and certainly easily done by any member of this forum...and more than a few already have...
Also, using a console hack for piracy is illegal, but there is nothing illegal about hacking a console to run a free OS and free software.
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As for gpu's, we know the GC had done 15 million polygons/second in real time
M9 can do 40 to 45 million triangles (polygons)/second and provides hardware-accelerated support for DirectX 8.1 class shader model.
M9 has support for QXGA resolutions (2048x1536) (i.e. beyond 1080p).
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@lou_dias
I also don't know the architectual differences between the IBM Gecko and the Freescale chip. The Freescale being an embedded chip, I'd give the internal cpu architecture edge to the GC as well.
What have Freescale got to do with this thread?
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Well just to show how easily pleased I am, it's got a girl's name, so I am happy.
:-)
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Well just to show how easily pleased I am, it's got a girl's name, so I am happy.
:-D
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I'm sorry, I saw embedded PPC and automatically associated Freescale.
Anyway, as a further contrast, the GC/Wii have the SPI interface and everything else integrated into the gpu where this SoC is on the cpu.
As for the performance of the ATI mobility gpu, mobile chips always lagged behind in laptops. 40 million polygons, is there a real game where this was achieved or is it a test like MS's claim that the original XBOX could do 130 million but in-game was only 18 million at best.
Well, it's nice to see another PPC maker enter the market. But they are clearly not targeting the desktop market. This board is something you have running a robot in a hot factory that can provide you with a descent user-interface.
At work we used "manufacturing PCs" but they cost ~$2000 because of the rack form factor and the extra fans, etc... So if this board is targeted at that market, then I see where they are going...
But when you or I want to play the latest games, or even games on par with PC games of 2001, this system will not provide the muscle (neither will a GC). Memory requirements alone for textures on anything over 800x600 will eat up that shared ram.
Let me say this about the GC's architecture. The GPU has it's own bank of 16MB of memory and a 3MB internal texture cache and direct access to the disc drive, so it could be streaming audio and graphics data from disc INDEPENDENTLY of the cpu. The GC's cpu had more cache (and programmable at that) than either the Xbox or PS2 which is why when games were made specifically (as opposed to quick cross-platform ports) for the GC it was easily on par with the best the Xbox could do.
I know people just want to run OS4 even if it's on a 200MHz PPC on a BVision... Hyperion says maybe this quarter for the classic port. I just think we need to aim higher.
Between this, ACK, Efika, the A1 and the CyberStorm/BVision stuff, the Amiga hardware market is going to be extremely segmented.
The A1 market is dead already, what's out there is what's out there and it was outdate even when it was designed. The rest aren't even as powerful. So we are going backwards now.
I want to go forward.
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Well Genesi are working on the Pegasos 8641D (http://www.powerdeveloper.org/8641d.php) maybe one that will run OS4. It has the the chance as Efika does.
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As for the performance of the ATI mobility gpu, mobile chips always lagged behind in laptops
So? Given similar GPU generation they don't lag to far behind in performance i.e. they can still post unplayable fast frame rates scores in game benchmarking.
is there a real game where this was achieved or is it a test like MS's claim that the original XBOX could do 130 million but in-game was only 18 million at best.
NV2A based architecture was use in higher performing Geforce 4 TI.
The GPU has it's own bank of 16MB of memory and a 3MB internal texture cache and direct access to the disc drive, so it could be streaming audio and graphics data from disc INDEPENDENTLY of the cpu.
Recall the purpose of "AGP Fast writes" and DMA protocol.
Intel P6 FSB 64bit FSB in XBOX1 doesn't consume nForce’s 128bit wide bandwidth.
The GC's cpu had more cache (and programmable at that) than either the Xbox
Recall NVIDIA's DASP function in nForce chipsets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NForce
DASP amounts to 3rd level cache functions.
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Let me just start off by saying that I own a gamecube chipped with Viper, running Cobra-1.2 and GCoS-Ripper as bootstrapper (mostly to boot Gentoo/PPC ), and also a viper casemod.
So I know what I'm talking about. :-D
Things that pull it down compared to a general purpose computer like the Sam440:
* The so called "broadband" adapter, which is a 10Mbit dongle stuck into a serial port, and it's nowhere near 10Mbit, it's barely around for half the speed of that.
* Too little system RAM (22MB) for "real life" use, and no way to upgrade the ammount of system RAM. You can then add 16MB of ARAM by swapping.
* It doesnt read CDs, only DVDs, so your AROS LiveCD would have to be a DVD.
* In principle it only reads 8cm DVDs, allthough with a casemod (like mine) you can use regular size DVDs, however you an only use the mid 8cm of them, and it can be pretty picky about them.
* Lack of local disk-controller. Yes, you can use SD cards via adapter, but it isnt exactly fast or anything.