Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: DaNi on October 20, 2003, 07:15:08 PM
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hi! i am not beta tester of this new os but i have a 68060 overclocked at 80mhz and i like this beta for compare speeds and rendiment on 68k but i dont found any people for help me :(
thanks to all and amiga roolz =)
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Wouldn't do you any good. For AOS 4.0 to run on a classic machine, it needs to have a PPC accelerator.
The last version of AOS to support the 680x0 chips is 3.9.
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While quite a few OS4 modules were beta tested on 68k machines, the core of OS4 has always been, and will only ever run on PowerPC.
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i dont mencioned the os4 ppc native, the first 4.0 beta is only 68k, the os4.0 ppc is a alpha version, not beta!
i am waiting a stable ppc version for amiga one of course =)
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i had a 060 at 80mhz also , anyway it died!
and for os4 , email hyperion then , but i am pretty sure they will deny any further 68k testings
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Please...stop with the 68k....
Now we have the chance to have new powerful hardware...we have to change way,Amiga has change and if we want to go on with Amiga,we must say goodbye to Amiga Classic.
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Slightly off topic, but I don't care.
I hate those hardcore classic Amiga hardware gimps who absolutely refuse to upgrade to anything better than a 060. They're normally ignorant, sentimental morons who have no real reason why it's better not to upgrade. They have absolutely no idea that they're actually helping to kill the Amiga off.
DaNi, I'm not accusing you of being one of these numb nuts, but your post did remind me of them.
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JoNty
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@JoNty
I see your point, but there are also those of us who are into the 'retro' side of things, and have a desire to cling onto the old hardware as a hobby - and yes reminisce as well,, rather than being 'stuck in the past'
Cheers,
Cyberus
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@Cyberus
I also see your point, but it's when they start complaining that things arn't getting ported to 68K, and games that are quite system intensive run like ass on their machines.
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JoNty
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DaNi wrote:
i dont mencioned the os4 ppc native, the first 4.0 beta is only 68k, the os4.0 ppc is a alpha version, not beta!
i am waiting a stable ppc version for amiga one of course =)
Certain modules were 68k; ExecSG is PPC-only, and as I understand it, all the really good stuff relies on the new features there and in related libs.
I discussed this with ... hoo boy, was it Thomas or Hans-Joerg? (I hate getting you guys mixed up as much as you probably hate me doing it!) ... and basically, it wouldn't be a simple job of pulling a known 68k-clean tree from CVS (someone would have to undertake all the MFCing* to pull bugfixes and finalized interfaces back into 68k-able code; lots of things targeted "PowerPC"** features from the get-go), and performance probably wouldn't be too hot anyway. (You can take that as "4 sucks!" if you want, but it really means "4 has to make tradeoffs trying to give people everything they want." MOS makes different tradeoffs, people will always be split over approaches, and it's PPC-only as well.)
So for that amount of work, AInc. would have to give the get-go, everyone likes to get paid, and it's better for the community if resources go to making 4.1, 4.2, 4.3-onwards kick a**. As nice as it would be to give the old machines a new lease on life, 3.x has technically done that anyway. (The existing OS architecture, warts and all, is a best-fit for the speed and capability of the Classic hardware... All that's really needed is a good IP stack, and if Roadshow isn't backportable, maybe AROS can prove its worth there.)
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*MFC = "Merge From Current," a BSD-land acronym. Means "integrating features/code from the 'top' of the development tree into older branches." It's just shorthand for a task... The actual work can be as easy as adding a simple tool (import 'helloworld.c' and makefiles into the older branch), or as complex as rewriting/massaging an entire 'OS' to handle a new API. (In BSD land: "Yeah, now that we've restructured the VM and VFS layer, we can MFC those filesystems into -STABLE.")
**Don't take me too technically here; I'm covering both 'things that actually require PowerPC speed or features,' and 'things that depend on other things that were built straight for PowerPC, such that there's no known-68k-able version of the dependency to just crosscompile without extra work.'
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@Floid
All that's really needed is a good IP stack, and if Roadshow isn't backportable...
Roadshow was developed for 68k in the first place, and the 68k version has been ready for over a year. It would have been released long ago if Olaf hadn't promised Hyperion that he would not release the 68k version until after AOS4 is released. Considering the ridiculous Miami situation and the shortcomings of Genesis, that decision has cost him a whole bunch of sales.
Note: The above refers to the stack itself, and not to the AOS4 specific GUI Hyperion were adding to it.
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My advice would be to get a PPC. Amiga needs to move on and use better and newer hardware for Amiga OS 4.0 to do real justice! :-) And the 060 just can't do it. Do you see?
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If I was Olaf and/or Hyperion I would probably rethink that agreement. On the other hand, we might see OS4/CSPPC released tomorrow for all I know...
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I just hope coldfire project gets done so we can use OS 3.9 with fast speeds. :-)
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I also see your point, but it's when they start complaining that things arn't getting ported to 68K, and games that are quite system intensive run like ass on their machines.
Perhaps, but you also need to consider the people running Amithlon/Amiga Forever and/or other forms of Emulation (including the Coldfire upgrade). A 68k DivX movie player might not make sense on a real 68K processor, but can be quite useful for people using emulation.
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@JoNty
I think you're right. Retro feeling is one thing - "evolution" with the other platforms is an other. If someone wants OS4, there will be the new motherboards, and for the retrocomputing the old machines are extremely cheap. I see no reason to want the new OS on a Classic Amiga - the performance and knowledge of those hardware elements are enough for the applications of that time... :-)
We must step forward now...
Reynolds
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cold fire upgrade? wtf?
it has been my general thought (please correct if wrong) that the coldfire line was a cut down (CRISC)version of the full 68k line, so being able to at 200Mhz is all well and good for coldfire native applications, but when it comes to emulating instructions the chip doesn't have, if you have to waste 20 clock cycles to emulate 1 68040 cycle, then its like "and the point is?" if you are going to use an accelerator upgrade that emulates a 680x0. why not use something with a decent instruction list and a good turn of speed.
(i don't know what speeds the coldfire line runs at i only picked those numbers out of the air)
(all thoughts and comments are strictly my own as no-one wants to pay the license fee)
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@JoNty
People could have their reasons on not upgrading...
I for an example simply doesn't have the funds to upgrade, but that doesn't make me an "Amiga Killer" does it? -No...
I see your point in some being fanatic to the classic models but c'mon there's so few of them really...
@All
I noticed, -when AOS on tour hitted DK-, That the guy showing the OS runned it on 68k and really don't recall he had an accelerator in it? -I'm quite sure on this... It was slow as #### but it was more stabile than the PPC version shown at the same event...
But OS4 is PPC only in the end as all of you mentioned already...
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I hate those hardcore classic Amiga hardware gimps who absolutely refuse to upgrade to anything better than a 060. They're normally ignorant, sentimental morons who have no real reason why it's better not to upgrade. They have absolutely no idea that they're actually helping to kill the Amiga off.
Without saying you're completely wrong on this issue, and altough there are and always be 'hardcore classic Amiga Geeks', you seem to forguet that you can have 68k speeds way beyhond 50Mhz, making it usefull at least for *uae users and Amithlon users. This alone could make it an interesting product
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@dani:
no OS4 was shown for 68k... it was only the 3.9 kernel with some modules recompiled... one of the great advantages of OS4 is the new memory management etc... you wouldn't take any advantage of that. Do you see WindowsXP released for 386@40Mhz? no? why should Hyperion support a DEAD cpu family? the effort of supporting CyberstormPPC/BlizzardPPC is smaller because you already have access to the same CPU... and the PPC family isn't dead.
Nah, PPC is the way to go. Let the 68k rest in peace...
I agree with Jonty... I remember that A500 users caused a lot of harm because they refused to upgrade to A1200, that caused that many games and programs weren't ported to Amiga.
And companies like vulcan that released A500 games in the late 90' looked so pathetic... as it happened in the peecee, when people saw what a fast Amiga could do they started upgrading (I remember people upgrading their miggys with the aim of running games like quake or doom (and warcraft2 in shapeshifter))