Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga.org site announcements => Topic started by: System on September 20, 2006, 06:33:35 PM
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I received this in e-mail just now from Bill McEwen (CEO, Amiga Inc), in regards to the 25 Q&A session from earlier. Hope it helps...
(Permission was granted to post e-mail).
Wayne,
A couple of clarifications for the Amiga.org users who participated in the earlier Q&A session.
1. The Security Certificate address is correct. Amiga, Inc. (Delaware) has a Washington office, and we used that address when we acquired the certificate. Delaware is a very popular state to incorporate in, and many, many companies that do their business from other states are incorporated in Delaware. Dell and Hewlett-Packard are just two examples out of thousands. There are many reasons to have your company a “Delaware” corporation and we are just one of thousands. I am not sure why this was a problem for some in the community as we are just trying to make sure that we get it right as we move forward.
2. I want to make sure that it is understood that we at Amiga want OS 4 to ship and to ship on a variety of hardware. We would not have spent the money for the embedded products if we did not think that OS 4 could fit into the long term as well as short term plans of the company and the community. I probably spoke too loosely when I referred to certain things being "in the hands of the lawyers" and so forth. People can (and did) interpret this in a variety of ways, some of which were far away from what I intended (a lot spicier, but wrong). What I meant to get across was that we are in discussions, and that some of these discussions involve our lawyers talking with their lawyers (we are talking about legal documents, after all) -- and we have every reason to believe that everyone will continue to get along just fine. Anyone looking for blood and guts will just have to be disappointed. (It is a very interesting experience having your every word interpreted, re-intepreted, misinterpreted, analyzed, dissected, spun, massaged, clarified, confused, etc., etc. You should try it some time.)
I will be spending some more time in the next couple of days to try and better clarify my answers, where questions have come up.
Bill McEwen
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The Delaware thing is bang on. It makes sense to be registered there, a LOT of US companies are but there is no physical entity there (theres not much of anything in delaware tbh)
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I notice that item #2 in that mail takes the wind out of alot of cynical, pessimistic interpretation I have seen being waved around, and banged over people's heads, as if it were incontrovertible fact...
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Thanks for the clarification. This a major help.
And thank you again for letting the community
know what is going on.
C Snyder
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QUESTION: Am I right when i believe the state of Delaware gives companies some benefits that other American states doesnt provide? for example regarding tax and/or responsability??
Thanks for the clarification Bill, it's nice to see you showing some interest in the community. Just settle things with Hyperion in a decent manner (which it sounds like you both want to do) and get OS4 released on some good hardware.
I hope OS5 will be a direct step further from OS4.
Best regards
Troels
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Thanks for the clarification. Hopefully this will calm people down a bit.
Hans
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If that helps, at least I think would have tried to understand your answers that way (and I think I was pretty successfull with my attempt - at least it matches now).
I think there are at least some people with a sane mind here :crazy:
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One thing I'm curious about: Persons from one or more of the different companies developing OS4-capable machines have stated that they haven't heard anything back from Amiga lately. That a month ago, Amiga seems to have stopped talking to them, or replying to their emails...
I say, it's time for Amiga to start talking to those companies again... or to at least give clarification of that. It is another one of those things that people on the forums are banging each other over the head with, and that too must stop. :madashell:
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Oh here we go just more BullSh*t from the same old people well let me tell you what....
Nah, just kidding, :-) I think we all appreciate the update. I seems like we are seeing a lot more communication going on the last week or two. I think a lot of us have been waiting 10 years or more and can't help but feel we are entitled to know what's going on. We may not be, but it sure feels good to hear news any news after all these years. Thanks everyone, Bill, Hyperion, maybe even Troika ;-)
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I notice that item #2 in that mail takes the wind out of alot of cynical, pessimistic interpretation I have seen being waved around, and banged over people's heads, as if it were incontrovertible fact...
Exactly how? There is no meat or substance in #2... What do you think #2 actually says in plain English? I can't make any sense of it.
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@smithy
Well, alot of people came away thinking there was some sort of lawsuit and counterlawsuit going on between Hyperion and Amiga Inc. This dispells these utterly nasty speculations.
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@Troels_E
Delaware made some laws in order to attract businesses. Credit card companies, especially, like Delaware. It's gotten to the point where if you gert an envelope with the name mysteriously left off the return address, you know it's going to be a junk mail credit card offer because it's from Delaware and you don't know anyone from Delaware.
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Thanks so much for the latest update. Look forward to more info!
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Gimme Five, Bill.
OS4 is in the heart of the users, hyperion too. We can only see Amiga Inc. and Hyperion Working together. No war. This is the last change for Amiga. I hope you know this.
;-)
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This is great.
Your clarifications are pretty much where I interpreted your answers first time round. I can understand where the cynics and naysayers come from though! :-o
It's good that everyone is talking again - I am looking forward to the new OS4 hardware!
I hope you can even work a good deal with your old adversaries - OS4 needs to be shipping on a mature, solid home before this christmas!
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@Bill
Holy crap!! You mean... we're about to have an open dialog? With Amiga Inc?
After all these years!?
Umm... somebody pinch me. :lol:
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Am I right when i believe the state of Delaware gives companies some benefits that other American states doesnt provide? for example regarding tax and/or responsability??
that's correct. I'm american so I immediately assumed the Delaware address was related to exactly that situation.
My "confusion" has been between the Washington address and the NY "mail drop" address. I took pictures of the building (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=964) and the third floor (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=965) listing. This was mainly to help find "where" AI actually was for the person who is still owed money by, well, Somebody or Something that at one point was called "Amiga Inc,". I'm still not sure at this point who is what. :getmad:
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@Bill
as OS5 has been in development for two years could you show us "something"?
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@cecilia
Hahaha...that was very clever of you to investigate their address, Jane Bond ;-)
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OS4/5 -> release date?
OS5 -> supported HW?
I guess you owe us (Loyal Amigans) some firm facts! :rtfm:
Your clarifications are highly appreciated
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Hahaha...that was very clever of you to investigate their address, Jane Bond
:-D just wanted to help a fellow amiga user out.
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personally, I'd rather see OS4 come out (well, it's already "out") WITH some HW. I'd like to see all the hard work done by the programmers and developers come to fruition.
I've seen OS4 so I already know it's way cool, but I'd like others to see this as well.
OS5 can't possibly be at a stage where it can be placed in users hands. I see no point in fantasizing about it now. OS4 is happening NOW. ALL we need is the freakin' HW!
GET THE HW!
priorities, boys!
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> Holy crap!! You mean... we're about to have an
> open dialog? With Amiga Inc?
Nope, Amiga Inc of Deleware. Next best thing I guess. :-P
> After all these years!?
AIoD has only been around for a while. ;-)
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having your every word interpreted, re-intepreted, misinterpreted, analyzed, dissected, spun, massaged, clarified, confused, etc., etc. You should try it some time.)
I think we've all been there a few times. Welcome to the internet. :-P
The Amiga community having the history it has and the abundance of sharp analytical minds (for the most part :lol:) is a terribly tough crowd to entertain especially when you have to come on stage and confess that you can't reveal 100% of all facts (for what ever reason). Of course we're going to try and fill in the blanks with the some of the most imaginative topics possible, even if it's no where near reality. I personally give you high marks for making the appearance and responding to questions and wish all things Amiga eventual success. I have to remain skeptical though. But that's me every day. Don't take it personally.
Plaz
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Thank you for the clarifications.
Like Crumb said... if OS5 is in development.. post some screenshots. Show the community why you've been so quiet. Update your website with OS5 info etc.
-Alex
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According to the Freidens Q&A at BB4, they were contacted about two months ago by Amiga, Inc. about writing the kernel for OS5. So, I would assume they don't even have anything near an alpha. Probably at most just some OS components.
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Thanks for the clarification.
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redfox
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Thanks again for making another follow up to these questions.
I think having more communication is a very good thing.
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Mr McEwen,
Thanks for the clarification and further update. We very much appreciate recent direct communications. We love this technology and are always scrambling to find hardware to keep our decades old amigas running. I look very forward to being able to purchase new technology and a new OS.
Your efforts are appreciated. And when the time comes, we will all help spread the word as we did many years ago.
Thanks,
Simon
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Dear Mr. B. McEwen,
I as a fanatical follower, and ever a defender of Amiga don't understand why it took soooooooooo long to do this? I mean come forward and answer many/some or any questions at all.
Why is that?
Now, that you're working on OS5, can AOS4.0 SW run on it unmodified? Is it 64 bit? Is it SMP capable?
If it can't use AOS4.0 SW, we'll be in the same boat as we are now, broswerless, and no office application SW either. We need a version of Basic, too.
What, in your opinion, is the lifespan of AOS4.0, and why is AOS4.0 not able to be built upon, that version 5.x is needed already?
I'm not against progress, but it seems too soon to look forward, when what is currently on offer is now sorely lacking.
If you have funds to code the next iteration, why don't you put some into getting the Amiga Phantasy case up and running?
This case is BETTER than putting ads on televison IMO!!!!!!
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To whom it may concern!
First I appologise to the moderators for my last post (not to that guy at A Inc.)
But still, guys, why do you believe a word he is saying? I can remember having him talk about the next gen Amiga running a G3 or even G4 (must take a look for that magazine) So where are those machines? OS4 (by A inc, not Hyperion) was supposed to be releases around 2k3 or maybe for. Nothing happened.
Good Lord, he is doing great PR, but dont you see he is just pulling your legs?
I mean, if Billy Boy just gives us one proove of existence of an OS5, than everything would be okay, but he never will, so he is just trying to keep his utterly small company somehow alive.
There is nothing he can or will ever do, point
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hey thanks for clearing that up. :-)
it's interesting to see the nay sayers claiming its just a load of BS although both A.Inc and Hyperion are agreeing on the state of things.
I wonder if they make up conspiracy theorys on other things ..... maybe wearing tin foil on thier head to ward of spy satilite "mind" rays while looking for UFO's in thier gum tree out back :lol:
no serious lets stop with the fatalism. I know the reality is bad enough
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Good Lord, he is doing great PR, but dont you see he is just pulling your legs?
There is NO WAY to see if he is pulling one's leg or not. I'm glad for your sake, though, that you have found a way to see what is impossible to be seen (for all the people besides the ones working closest to McEven).
I mean, if Billy Boy just gives us one proove of existence of an OS5, than everything would be okay, but he never will, so he is just trying to keep his utterly small company somehow alive.
See. either this one or that one or someone else makes silly claims that he 'has to' do 'this' or 'that' to put any 'doubts' (I'd rather say speculations and conspiracy theories made up by people with too much time on their hands).
Thing is. Let's say that McEven shows us some pictures of OS5. What will happen? Some will go 'WOW!'. Most will go 'MOCKUP! MOCKUP! MOCKUP! GIVE US MORE PROOF!'.
Then McEven posts a short movie demoing OS5. Some will go 'WOW!'. Most will go 'MOCKUP! MOCKUP! MOCKUP! MOCKUP! GIVE US MORE PROOF!'.
Then McEven releases a shourt compiled routine which shows off one of the features in the OS on the targeted hardware. Some will go 'WOW!'. Most will go 'MOCKUP! MOCKUP! MOCKUP! MOCKUP! MOCKUP! GIVE US MORE PROOF!'.
Then McEven releases OS5 to the community. Some will go 'WOW!'. Many will go 'what the hell is this CRAP! No way I am supporting this! No way I am supporting ANYTHING but OS4!'. And so forth. And so forth.
My point?
I find your claim that 'if Billy Boy just gives us one proove of existence of an OS5, than everything would be okay' naive. There is NOTHING McEven can do to please the entire community. Because even if OS4 will get an official release thanks to official hardware being produced, some people will keep on thrashing Amiga Inc., claiming that it is just a matter of time before they '{bleep} everything up again'.
I find this entire situation ridicilous. Sorry to say. But if there is one thing that have become apparent, that must be the fact that people do LOVE to read things that haven't actually been written and keep on speculating, though claiming it to be the undeniable truth, concerning matters they, in reality, don't have the slightest chance of 'knowing' anything about at all.
Oh, and please note that I have nowhere in this post claimed to be in favour of Amiga Inc. or adore their decisions, or consider McEven being the greatest of all time, or...
Well... I think you get the point.
{edited by moderator : removed one instance of profanity}
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Well, alot of people came away thinking there was some sort of lawsuit and counterlawsuit going on between Hyperion and Amiga Inc. This dispells these utterly nasty speculations.
Actually, I really don't see how those "nasty speculations" are dispelled. I can't see anything in what McEwen wrote that would contraddict them, nor I see anything that contraddicts or even just clarifies what McEwen stated in the q&a session.
For one, he didn't clarify whether or not the buyout clause has been triggered, which is all that the speculations were about.
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well I dont think that either party will let thier relationship sour!!
thats good to know! and either way Hyperion prob. set the price so they wont get screwed! A.Inc wont want to become the bad guy anyway ..... it's bad for buissness!! :lol:
roll on OS4 I got money waiting for you and a G4!!
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Hmm, if you are reading this Bill McEwen, maybe you care to comment on Dr. Ryan C. PHD and his mother's "Amiga Corp".
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I notice that item #2 in that mail takes the wind out of alot of cynical, pessimistic interpretation I have seen being waved around, and banged over people's heads, as if it were incontrovertible fact...
Smells more like damage control since Friedens (SP?) own ExecSG and Hyperion doesn't. So if Amiga Inc has triggered the buy back clause, they don't get ExecSG which means they have please the Friedens so they will ink a contract. Friedens probably do not like the public out cry that was in result of McBill's statement about lawyers between Amiga Inc and Hyperion since that poisons the waters that Friedens want as a market. Atleast that's my read on it.
Dammy
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According to the Freidens Q&A at BB4, they were contacted about two months ago by Amiga, Inc. about writing the kernel for OS5. So, I would assume they don't even have anything near an alpha. Probably at most just some OS components.
well that contradicts what Bill said. AI is working on OS5 in house, meaning not Hyperion/Friedens.
here's his quote just in case you missed it.
I should mention that while we have only talked about it once, OS 5 has been in development in Amiga by Amiga engineers and staff for over two years.
After two years worth of work, I'm sure there would be something to show for it.
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well that contradicts what Bill said. AI is working on OS5 in house, meaning not Hyperion/Friedens.
Do you really think they have broken status quoa and hired AOS developers as full time employees? I don't see it. I can see them subcontracting things out, like Friedens to do the kernel.
Dammy
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@dammy:
I dunno.. I'm just going by what was said.
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Lets ignore the fact that Mac, Linux and Windows were developed over many years with hundreds or even thousands of developers working full time while Amiga Inc. have had a couple developers (full time? part time?) working for the past two years. Forget about that. Imagine (if you can) that OS 5.0 is coming out today - right this second, completely finished, totally awesome looking and running flawlessly.
What software does it run? Does it run existing Linux, Mac or Windows software? (I assume not) Does it run existing classic Amiga software? (probably not) Does it even run existing AmigaOS 4.0 software?
Lets (generously) imagine it runs existing OS 4.0 software perfectly with no conflicts or crashes. So what does it run - a few freeware games, a text editor, a few miscellaneous home-coded utilities. Is there any "professional software"? (or even anything as good as the out of date software on classic Amiga?) Is there any good software company planning on writing software for OS 5.0? If so, and considering how long it takes to write "professional software" hadn't they better start now? Are there APIs and tools for these software companies to actually develop software for it?
So consider:
Even IF OS 5.0 was out TODAY and ran flawlessly on modern hardware with modern graphics cards and modern CPUs, and even IF Bill McEwen had somehow convinced major software companies (tempted with "huge" potential Amiga market;-)) to sign up and develop for OS 5.0 and there are existing tools RIGHT NOW for these major software companies to start developing real and useful software - how long would it take? 2 or 3 years? So lets say that for 2 years, you have an operating system with only small utilities and freeware games. Who in the hell would be interested in buying this thing? How would a market be built up? What major software companies would be stupid enough to spend years of development time on an unproven operating system with no market?
"Oh, I'm sooo excited about OS 5.0."
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> "Oh, I'm sooo excited about OS 5.0."
Sarcasm aside, you have a valid point and it's a battlecry I've shouted for years. The only exception is that ALL operating systems started somewhere.
Even the almighty Windows started as nothing but a task switcher. It's not "thousands of programmers" that got them there, it was a few men making great decisions and making great deals that got their foot in the door.
I can't speak for Amiga Inc's greatness, but I'm more than willing to let them try. After the first 10 years since the fall of Commodore, I'm not in so much of a hurry any more.
If they come out with something I'm interested, I'm cool with that, but the time of people being really interested in learning about computers (ala the vic-20 and Coleco Adam) has long-since passed.
Hell, my 6 year old niece probably knows more about computers than I did at age 20, but it's all Windows and/or Mac-based. The idea of there being a "real" market for a tinker's machine is something that will need to be proven.
Personally, I think they need to fall back to Commodore's original concept of "here's a game machine, and oh, by the way, you can add a keyboard and -- wow, it's now a computer!"
Wayne
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ALL operating systems started somewhere. Even Windows started as nothing but a task switcher. It's not "thousands of programmers" that got them there, it was a few men making great decisions and making great deals that got their foot in the door.
Yes, but now they have a 20 year head start. In other areas of technology you can jump in with innovations and compete, but not with operating systems because of the thousands of dependent pieces of software. OSX was something new but even that was built on existing software - a UNIX kernel and NeXT. And OSX would have failed miserably if not for the emulation layer allowing the thousands of professional OS9 and earlier programs to run (their $billions in assets helped too;-)).
Think about the operating systems that failed: NeXT, BeOS and OS2 - and consider how much money was behind them. Then think about Amiga Inc. and it becomes a bit of a joke. I've worked for a big software company that went bankrupt and even when it was totally falling apart, it was still more impressive than Amiga Inc. (and I learned to spot the "pre-death unrealistic BS")
I would LOVE to be proved wrong, but I'm not foolish enough to believe in unrealistic tripe.
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I'm not foolish enough to believe in unrealistic tripe.
Ok, I'm not sure that we're not talking about two different things here, but my point was not challenged. All operating systems, including Windows, AppleOS, AmigaOS, and even BeOS started with the bare minimum.
I'm not suggesting that Amiga could become the next Windows. The facts are, it can't, but given the right circumstances, push, and decisions, it could very well become the next BeOS or at least as big a market as some of the smaller Linux distros which have a rabid following.
Rabid community, we gots. Software we ain't gots.
Just out of curiousity, just to prove that I have no problems with contrary opinions, your original post remains unfettered, but I wonder... If you see "all of this" as "unrealistic tripe", then why are you here anyway?
Wayne
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When I say "I'm not foolish enough to believe in unrealistic tripe", I am referring to Bill McEwen's answers. Maybe "unrealistic tripe" is a bit harsh. I probably should have chosen some other term for it, but I can't think of one right now. What is the term for someone deliberately making extremely unrealistic promises?
Why am I here? Do you mean this thread? I am giving an opinion that hasn't been given yet. Isn't that the point of a discussion? Should I not be here?
If you mean why am I on Amiga.org, then that should be obvious. I am an Amiga user.
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What is the term for someone deliberately making extremely unrealistic promises?
From Thesaurus.com;
Main Entry: con man
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: confidence man
Synonyms: bilker, bunco, cheater, clip artist, con artist, crook, deceiver, fleecer, flimflammer, fraud, hoser, hustler, mountebank, scam artist, scammer, shark, sharpie, smoothie, swindler
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)
Copyright © 2006 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
{Edit : I don't think either Con Man or liar (pre-edit) applies because both denote intent, which I don't think is there, but you asked}
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Ah, yes. Thank you. I think on this particular occasion, I will chose "jive turkey".
"I am not foolish enough to believe in jive turkeys." :-D
Edit: Hey, you changed the definition on me. I'll have to change to "bunco flimflammers".
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I prefer "hoser" eh?
As in "take off, ya hoser".
So, if like you take a little baby mouse, and you put it in a empty beer bottle...
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After two years worth of work, I'm sure there would be something to show for it.
Sorry, I was implying that that they don't have a kernel for OS5 since they were/are trying to negotiate with the Freidens to write it. Without a kernel you don't have much of an OS. Just bits and pieces. Showing those in whatever state they may be in would just get them more grief, from the usual suspects of course. Like we are seeing now.
Now if Amiga, Inc. would tell us the basic details, beyond "it will be multiplatform", that would be a good start. Though haveing OS4 out on the market would be better, before talking about OS 5. It just makes it look like they are skippinga step.
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After two years worth of work, I'm sure there would be something to show for it.
THERE IS!!!! SECRET STOLEN OS-5 CODE RELEASED!
10 CLS
15 A = INT(RND(50)): B = INT(RND(50))
20 PRINT @ A,B "WELCOME TO AMIGA OS5"
30 PRINT @ A+1,B+1 "BACK FOR THE FUTURE...AGAIN!"
40 FOR T = 1 TO 200
45 C = INT(RND(255)): SOUND C,10: NEXT T
50 GOTO 10
Keep in mind that it is a work in progress and it has only been 2 years which is to say a couple of days in the regular world.
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A3KOne:
LOLOLOL!!!!!
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Actually companies never owe you anything not in the purchase contract.
Companies must first do that which keeps the company in business and that ,ultimately, is making a profit .Usually by providing a good service to a large number of customers Sometimes a company abandons its first customers completely ,starts over in a new market with new products and thrives.Sometimes.
It is generally considered not to be good business to release too much internal information lest your competitors use it against you.
Once you have millions and millions of customers with propietary hardware and software integrated into their businesses THEN you can announce new improved versions "in the near future" as does Microsoft whenever any innovative competitor arises.THOSE customers then put off their purchases waiting for the "official" models,thus killing the upstart company.
Amiga,Inc isn't Microsoft and thus must play their cards closer.
The Samantha news out of Italy is very interesting;now to see if speculation re:Wii comes true?!
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WAyne,
I think you are spot on;games consoles have continued to sell well even though Wintel has captured the desktop.
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Everybody in this forum (I hope so) has a job, so Bill McEwen has one. And this is what he does. Lets talk about past, when Commodore made all the mistakes that led to todays situation.
Wasn't it Commodore who misunderstood the signs and lead us to the way to a "dead" Amiga? Amiga just lives in the heart of us - the real world ate it up! Tell me just some little advantages Amiga has related to a good PC using XP?
Look at Macintosh - they did it... They found a corner to live and they used it together with a self-created image. Amiga was known by millions and sold to millions... but Commodore has thrown it away.
Bill McEwen belongs just to a third or fourth owner of "Amiga" brandings and old code sources. And may be, if he was not in the place after those other companies went down, no AmigaOS 3.x or 4.x would ever have seen the light of our sun.
Not everyone is happy about "TAO" or a massive redesigned OS4 or 5... for this reason there are projects like AROS out there, and i guess it must be possible to port the famous "MONO" a dotNET clone to the AMIGA's AROS - world... I thought about it by myself... but I do not know if I have the time to do this...
Why are just all "crying" around about good old times. Take your keyboard and do something for it! Porting MONO and other famous applications to AROS would make it an "alternative" that no longer lives behind the moon.
I think about Amiga when thinking about Linux. I do not think that Amiga will be a real alternative to "commercial" systems like Windows, but as open source operating system like AROS Amiga has some potential. It is small, powerful and has some good concepts...
I hope you understand what Bill does for us.. he gives us hope! Without his work and a still existing "Amiga Inc.", noone would ever have thought about Amiga surviving the times... Amiga itself has died a decade before!
M