Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga.org site announcements => Topic started by: System on September 14, 2006, 12:18:45 AM
-
-
Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions.
This was definitely a interesting read and i hope we have more communication in the future as well.
I in no way saw what was coming, nor did we foresee how many would react when things got really tough on both the personal and business levels, and I wanted to say thank you directly to those of you who reacted in kind over the death of my daughter and over the personal financial trials and tribulations that followed her death and difficulties that the Amiga situation created.
:cry: I must say i am very sorry for your loss and will offer my greatest condolences.
-
Thanks Wayne & Co. for the questions and Bill for answearing them :-)
-
:banana:
-
First of all my condolences ,albeit late. Mr McEwen. Such a loss would cause many to seek new directions to keep busy.Yet Bill has stayed with the Amiga.
A couple of other points; Is anyone selling a half-million a year of strictly Amiga product? And what?
After reading the answers I know very little more than before;we are told it is all tied up in legal wrangling,that plans have been made, and something should be appearing on retail sale soon.
I confess to being utterly confused by discussions of value-added,content provider, and most of the answers. I don't even understand what Amiga has to do with making a phone call.In the business where I work dozens of engineers,suppliers,contractors, and delivery people use their phones seemingly only to communicate the spoken word and then put them away until it rings. The fact that many industrial and other sites ban camera equiped phones may have some bearing on this.
I guess what some? many? of us wanted to hear was "the new Amiga will be introduced in time for Christmas buying or the new Whizbang game console will feature the Amiga OS in partnership with Whizbang LLC ..."
I thank Wayne for his effort and Bill for answers constained by lawyers; just still waiting for the real dawn of a new day.
-
Ok, A couple of things that concern me...
We have been working since last November on locating a hardware partner for new PowerPC based hardware and we have made some slow but successful progress. I hope that this Hyperion issue can be rectified so that we can get it completed, and then we can get the hardware ready to ship.
I have had conversations with the Freidens about this, and once we have the legal situation resolved then we can put that horse before the cart. If we can not do it with OS 4, then I am sure the FIVE can take care of that issue.
We have made offers to Hyperion to resolve this matter that we believe are fair, but we have been turned down on three separate occasions.
Did I miss something in the answers or in the past? Are there legal troubles between Hyperion and Amiga Inc.?
We are in current discussions with three companies, and I believe that two of them have product and offerings that offer a competitive opportunity for the Amiga community. We are striving to get these deals complete, and until they are signed I am not at liberty to discuss them. I will say that Troika is not one of them, contrary to what is rumbling out there.
Troika not one of them? They seem to be the only one with info on an actual product?
Q. You will see portions of OS 5 being delivered in AmigaAnywhere and then those portions will marry with the rest of OS 5 and it will begin shipping as well.
A. No it will not. We want to see OS 4 ship, but by the time we get everything worked out you may be running version 5. I should mention that while we have only talked about it once, OS 5 has been in development in Amiga by Amiga engineers and staff for over two years. We have made some amazing progress and we are pleased with the results to date.
2 Amiga OSes?!!??!!? Not another community split I hope. I have bad feelings about this "OS5"
and last which gave me the most humor...
Over the next 5 years you will see OS 4, 5, and version 6 in the market along with supporting builds and infrastructure across several digital devices.
On the inside of my Amiga OS 3.9 booklet that comes in the CD case it says Copyright 2000. 6 and a 1/2 years later there is still no newer Amiga OS "in the market", but the predictions still come that 4, 5, and 6, are just around the corner. Laughable. I don't mean any disrepect to him and I'm sure he's not lying, but that is a pretty bold prediction and one I think everyone in the community would have learned not to make by now.
AmigaHeretic
-
Thanks Bill and Wayne. This was very interesting and informative. Thanks for staying with us despite all the problems that have come your way.
However, it does bring up even more questions. Mainly about Amiga OS5. According to you, it's been in development since 2004. What is it based on? Any OS3/OS4 code involved? Will existing Amiga API's be part of this OS or is it something totally different?
I'll be watching developments with great interest.
Hans
-
@AmigaHeretic
but the predictions still come that 4, 5, and 6, are just around the corner. Laughable.
Why laughable?
OS 5.0 has already been released. (http://www.a1k.org/bilderlink/haha.jpg) :lol:
-
It was nice hearing some news from Amiga Inc. but now I'm perplexed. Is there a transition plan from AmigaOS 4.0 to OS 5.0? Is it possible to see in the future a split between these two OSes? AmigaOS 4.0 to be continued by Hyperion and OS 5 being developed by Amiga Inc (btw is it the TAO OS or a different OS altogether?)
-
Any OS3/OS4 code involved? Will existing Amiga API's be part of this OS or is it something totally different?
If OS5 is just TAO's extended JavaVM, further extended, I'm buying a peg. I'm not even kidding.
-
With regard to the issue that you are talking about, we were notified by third parties that someone had manipulated and altered the ROM's. This is a violation of our IP and they were notified. We have since been told that it was not true and nothing was really done, that it was a manipulated video, not actual code that was changed.
http://www.doobreynet.co.uk/beta/ - manipulated video? really? Anyway, how does hosting a video breach amiga IP?
Quite interesting read (if you filter out the usual marketing talk, which is ~95%). Amiga Inc is having legal spat with Hyperion (did I understand that correctly?), and Troika has no OS4 license (hasn't even discussed with Amiga Inc about it).
/me gets the popcorn!
PS. If someone is interested about the contract draft, take a look at google: os4contractdraft (http://www.google.com/search?q=os4contractdraft).
-
If OS5 is just TAO's extended JavaVM, further extended, I'm buying a peg. I'm not even kidding.
Wow, is this a threat? :lol:
-
It was nice hearing some news from Amiga Inc. but now I'm perplexed. Is there a transition plan from AmigaOS 4.0 to OS 5.0? Is it possible to see in the future a split between these two OSes? AmigaOS 4.0 to be continued by Hyperion and OS 5 being developed by Amiga Inc (btw is it the TAO OS or a different OS altogether?)
It makes no sense to call it AmigaOS 5 if all the code has been replaced. If it is just TAO, then i wont have anything to do with it.
-
OS 5.0 started development in 2004 even though OS 4.0 is not finished in 2006? This must be a new software development plan I am unfamiliar with. Normally you finish the earlier version first. :-D
I assume Window Vista must be the version written BEFORE Windows XP then.
Well, I must not be negative. Bill has taken time to write long responses to all the questions. (I just can't see the answers)
-
@humppa
Wow, is this a threat? :lol:
Hmmm... lemmee rephrase that:
"If OS5 is just TAO's extended JavaVM, further extended, I'm buying a peg after I punch humpaa in the pancreas. I'm not even kidding."
There, fixed it :-D
-
It's not really that hard to understand. Hyperion started work on OS4 (presumably) in 2004. Something sent up a red flag and Amiga Inc themselves started working on OS5 to run on multiple platforms like they always stated.
Whether or not OS5 shares anything with OS4 or not remains to be seen. One thing is for certain. It would have been nice if AmiWest was more than one day because it sounds like may be shaping up nicely if Amiga shows up.
Wayne
-
I hope to the high heavens that OS5 is not just a new version of amiga anywhere... not the fist time a. inc used the name amiga in vain! please please tell my this in not the plan.
-
"If OS5 is just TAO's extended JavaVM, further extended, I'm buying a peg after I punch humpaa in the pancreas. I'm not even kidding."
That's pretty tricky, going for the pancreas. I tried punching someone in the pancreas before, and I just hit the spleen (like a bloody fool).
-
I have absolutely no interest in OS5. I will simply never buy the product.
For me OS4 was the way forward. Now it looks like it's obsolete before it's ever released. I feel like I did after the original Commodore bankruptcy.
All this new OS is going to do is fragment the market even more.
-
they could have it as another product of Amiga inc that goes ontop AmigaOS 4.0... like java. Then Amigans could create content for it and enjoy content from others that have other platforms. After all OS 5 isnt it a hosted OS?
-
With regard to the hardware question, I can only state that I have responded to “every” query that has been sent. So that we do not have vendors appear and disappear leaving the end user holding equipment that can not be supported, Amiga asks a series of questions of the person who has made the request. I can tell you that with the exception of two groups, nobody has ever returned with acceptable answers.
I sent multiple emails to the prescribed technologylicensing@amiga.com but never received any response whatsoever. Not a list of questions, not an empty email, not a header, nothing at all. This was April or May 2005. I used YAM at the time, which doesn't to my knowledge have any built-in filtering that might have thought Amiga Inc.'s response was spam, I had to delete all that by hand back then. I'm not sure what other black holes might have eaten potential responses to the 3 or 4 inquiries I sent. A later answer he mentions they stared looking for a hardware partner in November 2005, after I'd given up on them.
-
Bill you say....
"In 2003 Amino began the sale of “all” of the Amiga assets to Itec and then KMOS. In the end, KMOS, Inc. purchased all of the assets of Amino Development (including the trademarks) in two transactions. KMOS, Inc. then changed their name to Amiga, Inc. (The quote from Garry Hare came from a time between the two transactions, when KMOS owned certain Amiga assets, but not the trademarks (yet), so it was true at the time. Once KMOS acquired the trademarks, the quote was no longer true.)
This was an asset purchase agreement, and once completed, Amiga, Inc. of Washington (which now owned nothing) closed its doors. Most of the employees accepted employment with the new company (three did not). For the sake of convenience in these answers, I will refer to Amiga in all of its incarnations as “Amiga,” but the Washington Amiga and the Delaware Amiga are unrelated."
soo all I can get out of this is that YOUR AMIGA inc. owns NOTHING, it now all belongs to kmos. Infact it sounds like YOUR amiga Inc was disolved!
do you now work for kmos? (renamed amiaga inc.)
If you got rehired there,then YES, you did quite a bit of a legal schuffle IMO.
Please don't try to pull the wool over our eyes with marketing gobely goop.
When can we expect a NEW product from A Inc?
(I don't plan on supporting you like I did with amigaSDK ever again, so it must be GOOD to get my money)
You guys have done the WORST PR job I have EVER seen and will have to EARN trust in this community, as the old lies still hurt. Don't expect me to treat you like you not just another upstart with a shaky bussiness plan (if any). I seriously doubt you guys are makeing a $500.000 profit.
In Amiga terms you guys are newbees, let us know if you when you need help.
"OS4 dev. is up and rocking!"
mr. bill m. years before they even started.....
-
Thank you Bill for that insigt into what's happening with Amiga Inc. I for one was getting worried about progress and how you were holding up. Seems communication dried up for quite some time. But I got my T-shirt :-D
I'm glad to hear that things are moving forward and I still cannot believe that some people starts to put out negative reply's to these answers you have put up. When finally sticking your head out with a very wanted response it's getting treated like a soccer ball at the World Championships. :-P
I for one (I'm an old Amiga fan and have 4 running at home) is relieved to hear that there's much more going on behind the scenes than I had initially thought, and I hope we will see the fruits of your hard work sometime soon.
My very heartfelt condolences for your tragic loss of your daughter. That would have stopped most people in their tracks I believe.
A great thank you here from Denmark and the best of luck for the future.
P.S. Please get amiga.com redesigned ;-)
-
I think we all appreciate the update....but....who wants/needs OS5? It'd sounds akin to Microsoft promising Vista before XP even got released. Strange indeed. And so much for an 'October Surprise' OS4 on PS3.....Seriously, nothing really new here, I could have sworn I read the same stuff in a 2000 edition of Amiga Format (RIP).
I, for one, want OS4...a desktop OS for PPC or x86 (who really cares about the cpu at this point?). If I ever think in the future my toaster or coffee maker needs 'digital convergence', then I guess we could talk about your AmigaAnywhere/OS5 (dumb name though imho).
And really...$500,000.00 revenue requirement? Are you serious? What's Amiga's revenue? At last count there were maybe a handful of manufacturers still making anything Amiga (Eyetech has divested from Amiga afaik and from what I read Jens is seriously considering hanging it up).
In summary, I think you're going to have to do better than giving us re-hashed Year 2000 plans in 2006. My suggestion: Drop this silly notion of OS5, hand out OS4 hardware licenses like candy and open the platform to 3rd parties. Although it's probably already far too late...
-
"The first thing we do, is kill all the laywers"
:destroy:
Will Shakespeare
:admonish:
A big thank you to Wayne and Bill for taking all this time to put all this out.
-
Nice replies by Bill. I'll just be over here in the corner waiting on products to go along with the answers. I wish he could throw us more of a bone, as in some photos of software or hardware projects they have going on. Strage to be talking about OS5 and 6 when I've just wished to be able to afford hardware to run 4.
I have a lot of thought running around after reading all this, but I'll just some it up as ..... Go Amiga.
Plaz
-
This made me chuckle too:
"Over the next 5 years you will see OS 4, 5, and version 6 in the market along with supporting builds and infrastructure across several digital devices."
However the question was basically asking - Do you have a roadmap? So I guess they do and there it is. Whether it happens or not who knows!
And I guess I don't care much anymore. I will always be interested in what happens with the amiga OS but I doubt i'll end up buying a new amiga because the soundcards I use for recording (creamware) will never run on an amiga.
-
Welcome Bassdude. First post I see. I've always been partial to TurtleBeach cards. Wouldn't it be great to put current recording hardware on AmigaOS again. Mark of the Unicorn, ProTools..... Nothing like going to your favorite hardware vendor and finding a download section for Amiga drivers..... ah silly dreamer.
Plaz
-
Confidence raising (even when reading between the lines)!
Now, can we answer a question a week so these huge deluges never need happen again?
==========
Reading the AmigaOne agreement a bit, the second page states that Amiga OS 4.0 is those features described later in the document and Amiga OS 4 is anything over and above that.
I nearly cried when I couldn't get to the Hyperion website. FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT!
=============
Condolences to you, Bill.
Keep up the great work, Wayne.
benJamin
"This time, please keep us in the loop?"
-
@ Plaz
Thanks for the Welcome. Been here for years and years just never posted. I'll take creamware over protools. :-D
It would be nice to get some serious audio apps running for amiga. Maybe one day. (creamware never though so i'll still have to run peecee :-( )
-
@Bassdude
You could get in touch with DaveAE about soundcards you want support for.
He is doing a good job with making drivers for OS4, news about the latest cards supported here (http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3287).
-
>>>I sent multiple emails to the prescribed technologylicensing@amiga.com but never received any response whatsoever. Not a list of questions, not an empty email, not a header, nothing at all.<<<
I could tell our story, but that would not be professional. Our plans continue forward, and I await Hyperions irc at BB4. :-)
-
Quote:
We have been working since last November on locating a hardware partner for new PowerPC based hardware and we have made some slow but successful progress. I hope that this Hyperion issue can be rectified so that we can get it completed, and then we can get the hardware ready to ship.
Quote:
I have had conversations with the Freidens about this, and once we have the legal situation resolved then we can put that horse before the cart. If we can not do it with OS 4, then I am sure the FIVE can take care of that issue.
Quote:
We have made offers to Hyperion to resolve this matter that we believe are fair, but we have been turned down on three separate occasions.
I would really like a follow up to these quotes from Amiga Inc. Can you shed any more light on the situation? Is there an end in sight? Whats the problem exactly? Is Hyperion wanting too much?
This is really depressing. I'm a hardcore Amiga guy and I cant bear the thought of giving up Amigas again. But it looks like I'll have to with the current legal situation. I'm currently figuring out in my head which platform I'm going to switch to if needs be.
-
Updated 10:52pm Wednesday, Sept 13th :
Wayne Hunt -- Bill, there is a lot of concern that "OS5" is "just another add-on to Intent".
Bill McEwen : Amiga OS 5 is NOT built on top of Intent and it is not related to Tao. This is 100% Amiga and yes there is a path from OS 4 to OS 5.
-
@Wayne
Now that was a very good and needed clarification :-)
-
@Wayne
Thanks for clearing that up :)
-
Aros? :idea:
-
miga OS 5 is NOT built on top of Intent and it is not related to Tao. This is 100% Amiga and yes there is a path from OS 4 to OS 5.
I wish he was clearer on this. It could be "100% Amiga" and still just be a bunch of crap hoisted on top of a linux kernel. Wayne: any chance you could ask him to share a bit of the design details? is it OS3/4 based, at least?? :-?
-
This was an asset purchase agreement, and once completed, Amiga, Inc. of Washington (which now owned nothing) closed its doors.
However, Bolten Peck won his case against you and Amiga Inc WA in 2002. Has Peck been repaid with the funds gained from the sale of Amiga IP, trademark, and other assets? If not, why not since that was court ordered?
We, the Amiga community, watched you burn through millions of dollars of VC money, then burn through your employees who were apart of our community and I won't even touch the "on schedule and rock'ng" non-truths that have been told. Why should you, your fellow executive officers, or any of your corporation(s), ever be trusted again?
:popcorn:
Dammy
-
Re; OS5 talk.
I'm happy Ainc have been forward-thinking enough not to let everything lie with Hyperion and OS4. Though the OS5 talk sounds very premature, its nice to know theres one -official- possible future beyond PPC under way.
Ive always felt the host hardware is irrelevant, so long as its powerful and affordable, I could care less what architecture is printed on the silicon.
Having said that, when and if we ever see OS5, it will be interesting to see if a -commercial- Amiga based OS is of any real value compared to all the other -free- alternatives to Windows?
Most people who were going to have already made the switch to Linux and settled in with it, they won't neccessarily want to switch-back to a closed commercial OS.
-
My two cents...
I contacted Amiga quite a while back about a business prospect and they responded quickly and professionally.
Have things changed?
Not to be negative but we need results not more promises.
I have been hanging out here for what seems like forever and I must tell you this sounds like the same old regurgitated junk.
I really think that if something doesn’t happen it’ll be the last straw for the community.
(how many are left?)
I have already gone from owning an Amiga 3000 (and 500) to running WinUAE to no Amiga at all. Yes I’ve tried AROS it’s far from ready. For years now I keep asking myself why I bother.
Bill I enjoyed reading your answers, a lot of it was pretty interesting but do me one favor…don’t answer anymore questions until you have a tangible product we can actually purchase. It doesn’t help when you reveal new (OS/Hardware) products while the ones you promised in the past have yet to come to fruition.
I understand you may have legal battles to fight and contracts you cannot talk about, really I do, but that’s not what I want to hear about anyway. What I want to hear is what product is available and where I can get it, look at it, smell it, and yes even taste it.
-
Well, one good question they would do good to answer:
Will there be emulation for Amiga OS 4 within AmigaOS 5, so that we can continue to use any programs developed for Amiga OS 4? An answer to the affirmative on this would go far to dispel the fear among some of us now that OS 4 is a dead end even before it ships... :-D
-
es there is a path from OS 4 to OS 5
Cool. I wondered about how if Amiga was doing 5 while Hyperion was doing 4 if anyone would want 4 at all because five is coming and also if 5 wasn't at all to do with 4.
He did say something about how 5 may come out with 4 never having had come out, but also that Hyperion was already paid and should get paid more, even though they owe Amiga money. It might be some kind of weirdness if there was a 5 without a 4 being released, but who really cares.
4 is pretty much already done anyway (according to Hyperion) so 5 CAN be based on it even though work is on-going on both of them
It's a little unusual that there had been no leaks or even rumors of OS5 being worked on at all. They must be a dedicated crew that keeps at it instead of going out and getting drunk and having their lips loosed by secret agents for the blue side. ;-) It's a little like the original Amiga crew in that respect... if my amazing speculation is correct. :-P
-
This is what I read from the responses.
1. Amiga Inc. and Hyperion are fighting each other over the rights to AmigaOS4.
2. Amiga Inc. has already executed their buy-back option and paid Hyperion, but Hyperion is unhappy with the amount they got, so they are fighting to keep AmigaOS4, or get more money.
3. I am guessing that AmigaOS5 might be based on AmigaOS4, as it is conceivable that Amiga Inc. had access to an early version when they executed the buy-back option and paid Hyperion to help bail them out a little.
4. It is not surprising that we don't have any AmigaOS4 hardware at this time with the requirement that the company must have an annual gross (or is it net) income in excess of $500,000 before they can even be considered as qualifying for a license. The market for AmigaOS4 and its hardware is so tiny, most companies that are large enough to meet that requirement are not interested because the return on investment is likely to be negative for years and may never turn a profit if things don't change in Amigaland.
-
Bill McEwen -- Yes, Amiga actually entered into a contract in 2005 with a firm to develop some products based on the Amiga classic technologies and we are looking forward to seeing those products. We have also been in discussions with the creator of the MiniMig, but he decided to go another direction.
Nobody interessted what that is? Could that be the Coldfire project(s) ? Elbox ?
-
Doesn't this speculation about AOS5 give a deja vu feeling? I wonder if there's any more reason now to believe AOS5 is a real possibility than there was several years and several million dollars ago (in terms of Amiga, Inc. resources burned through). Investors have become even more indulgent? That's hard to believe.
That grandiose AOS roadmap that got auctioned off a few months ago got quite a few laughs, but it seems Bill McEwen is still guided by it, or at least wanting to give that impression to the people eager to hear it. It's fun to dream of a happy, shiny future, but I hope nobody is getting their hopes up too much.
-- gary_c
-
I find it interesting that Amiga Inc acknowledges presence of Troika.
-
This sounds to me that Troika has no license to
sell their platform(s) together with AmigaOS 4.0.
If you interprete the answer as they have moved
from discussions to a final agreement, my bet is
that Troika would have told the community a
long time ago, if they had a license.
It's not like anyone ever asked the question..
-
If you interprete the answer as they have moved from discussions to a final agreement, my bet is that Troika would have told the community a
long time ago, if they had a license.
Now you are saying the obvious. But people were reluctant to think it... Everytime when too much good is coming people get their blinders on.
-
ironfist wrote:
This sounds to me that Troika has no license to
sell their platform(s) together with AmigaOS 4.0.
If you interprete the answer as they have moved
from discussions to a final agreement, my bet is
that Troika would have told the community a
long time ago, if they had a license.
It's not like anyone ever asked the question..
ironfist!!!!
Could it be that Troika will sell an AmigaOS4.0 capable machine, without license, and that's what's trudging through the courts?
It would make sense that they wouldn't want to show a working MB in public, in that case!
Until "When it's 100% done" with a working MB.
Maybe, they're looking to pressure from us, to come to bear on Amiga Inc. to be given that license, after "the cat's out of the bag", so to speak??
-
Could it be that Troika will sell an AmigaOS4.0 capable machine, without license, and that's what's trudging through the courts?
They would need to bundle their HW with AOS 4.0 for which they have to pay royalties to Amiga Inc.
So it would involve both Troika and Hyperion.
Very unlikely to have a lawsuit only for the "intention" to do something.
-
@itix
Only in passing, though, more like he was hedging off any "what about Troika" comments.
-
@amigadave
I didn't get the impression that this buy-back option thingy was ever executed, only that it was introduced in a new contract that Hyperion signed so they could get the extra operating funds. Who knows if the money Hyperion got was in fact the money the buy-back option relates to.
-
Could it be that Troika will sell an AmigaOS4.0 capable machine, without license, and that's what's trudging through the courts?
It would make sense that they wouldn't want to show a working MB in public, in that case!
Until "When it's 100% done" with a working MB.
They could always go for, say, AROS. Name it Amigo OS and print slogan "Only Amigo makes it possible".
-
@JuSho
We are working on a product that would allow the retro games to be played on various devices, and I hope that we will have some more concrete timing on that product very soon.
^^^^Isn't that what he meant?
-
@Englyst
...But I got my T-shirt :-D
I still cannot believe that some people starts to put out negative reply's to these answers you have put up. When finally sticking your head out with a very wanted response it's getting treated like a soccer ball at the World Championships.
I thought the same thing, except... I DIDN'T get my t-shirt. :-)
I don't know why the negative folks even bothered if nothing coming out of Amiga is either the truth or "Amiga enough". I say go sit on your "peg" or blow it out your AROS, but stop being a meany head naysayer that just wants to bring people down.
-
After having read Bills answers I am pretty disappointed. Amiga Inc is more or less singing the same song they did almost 4-5 years ago.
- OS5 is coming and have been under development for two years. By whom and based on what fundament?
- Hyperion will NOT be developing AOS after 4.0. Yes very rational. Remove the one company that people still respects and who actually gets the job done
- Legal disputes between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion. OMG AGAIN?!?! Whatever happend to the professional attitude of NOT saying this in public before anything was decided. Wasnt that what we all hated Bill Buck for?? Seems the only product Amiga Inc. can produce is legal meetings. What can they possibly archive by doing this. One could wonder why AInc suddenly directs its attention toward Hyperion shortly after the Smith Aerospace deal. GOD FORBID Hyperion to make any money (OK that is pure speculation. But its my best guess)
The conclusion I can draw is that Hyperion should continue making revisons to OS4.0 and never release it (If any of you Hyperion guys are reading this I will happily buy ANY revision in the future ESPECIALLY if its not the final OS4). Also people should just start selling OS4 capable hardware. Eventually AInc would spread itself so thin in legal buissness that they'll run out of money or be bought by MMOS dissolve and form a new AInc where after all old contracts apparently is void
-
Let me quote this part from question and answer 24:
Q: ... the security certificate on Amiga.com has expired at the end of 2005... Is Amiga, Inc. nothing more than a software publishing house?
A: Bill McEwen -- I would not place any importance on the software certificate "issue." The certificate has been renewed and is currently in use...
As everybody can see if they visit https://www.amiga.com/shop/, the site does indeed have a new certificate, issued by Starfield Secure Certification Authority on August 29, 2006. But... just click on the lock symbol or equivalent, depending on your browser, to see who the company that requested and obtained the certificate is! It is Amiga, Inc. (Washington), and not Amiga, Inc. (Delaware)!
But... Didn't the same Bill McEwen just say in reply to question 2 that the Washington company and the Delaware one are unrelated, and that the Washington company is now closed? Let me quote again:
There has been no deception and no hiding of the assets in any form or matter.
...
This was an asset purchase agreement, and once completed, Amiga, Inc. of Washington (which now owned nothing) closed its doors.
...
the Washington Amiga and the Delaware Amiga are unrelated
...
There is no deception, no hiding and the fact that we announced all of it in the public forums would make that clear.
Now, I am getting really confused. Bill McEwen is telling us, the community, that the Washington company is closed, and that everything is now done via a new Delaware company, which is the only Amiga company. And that there is no deception. So, "they" are now the Delaware company, right? Bill McEwen also just told us that "they" are in business, and that "they" just renewed a security certificate. He also encourages the community not to place too much importance on the security certificate. (Why does he do that?) But, in my humble opinion, this is instead very important. Because a security certificate requires paperwork, and verification, not just nice words like we are hearing here, and apparently there is something that is not right here, because what we are told is the new and only Amiga company cannot even get a security certificate!
Look for yourself inside the certificate:
E = webmaster@amiga.com
CN = www.amiga.com
OU = Web Services
O = Amiga, Inc.
L = Issaquah
S = WA
C = US
This is the old Washington company, apparently still being used (even if inactive) when it is convenient to do so. In Mr. McEwen's own words, this company is now... "unrelated" and "closed its doors", and there is "no deception". If things like "unrelated" and "doors closed" mean nothing, and a security certificate and related audit is "not important", what meaning and importance can we expect to be attributed to "no deception and no hiding"?
-
Now, I am getting really confused. Bill McEwen is telling us, the community, that the Washington company is closed, and that everything is now done via a new Delaware company, which is the only Amiga company.
I got an impression that Delaware Amiga is not connected to Amiga/DE/AA but just some other company.
Obviously they closed their Amiga Inc in Washington and opened new Amiga Inc in Washington :-) It probably isnt illegal in the USA.
-
Re: Security certificate
Wow, talk about reading a lot into something. Most likely what happened is that Bill M got on the phone and said,
"Hi, it's Amiga Inc here, our security certificate has run out. Can you renew it please and send us the bill"
and Starfield said
"Yes, Bill, we'll do that right away"
and nobody remembered to mention that in legal terms the company had actually changed.
-
@Bill McEwen & Wayne
Thanks for this Q&A.
I think Amiga should employ Hyperion for their OS division.
-
It is clear to me now that:
1. We will never see AmigaOS 4 in stores.
2. Hyperion is the big looser in either case (release or not).
3. Amiga Inc is moving forward with AOS 4 or not.
4. Troika won't get a licence.
The conclusion is that we are full of incompetent corporations (Amiga inc, Hyperion, Genesi) trying to sqeeze everything for their own greedy purposes. The only amiga future I see is the open future (http://www.aros.org).
-
@Ikir
I think Amiga should employ Hyperion for their OS division.
Why would they want to do that? In order to activate the buy-back clause, they need to supply a substantially new version no later than 6 months after the release of OS 4.0.
If Hyperion would be contracted, they could just sit on their as*es and do nothing so that the ownership of AmigaOS won't be transferred to Amiga Inc.
Further to this, OS5 is planned for multiple CPU platforms, but Hyperion is allergic to anything other than PPC.
-
What a very, very disappointing set of answers. Vague promises and lots of hot air. This man is definitely not living in our reality. What serious company in their right mind would want to do business with companies like these?
-
@humppa
You have stolen and modify my new avatar on amigaworld!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-o :-o :-o
glad to see that all my avatars cause commotion and creates school :lol: ;-)
-
@AmigaHeretic
Have I missed something? Most of Bill's answers you quoted aren't actually there... have the answers been removed? It seems there's more than just the OS5 questions been changed (deleted?)
These quotes don't exist in Bill's answers:
Very confused...
smithy
We have been working since last November on locating a hardware partner for new PowerPC based hardware and we have made some slow but successful progress. I hope that this Hyperion issue can be rectified so that we can get it completed, and then we can get the hardware ready to ship.
I have had conversations with the Freidens about this, and once we have the legal situation resolved then we can put that horse before the cart. If we can not do it with OS 4, then I am sure the FIVE can take care of that issue.
We have made offers to Hyperion to resolve this matter that we believe are fair, but we have been turned down on three separate occasions.
No it will not. We want to see OS 4 ship, but by the time we get everything worked out you may be running version 5. I should mention that while we have only talked about it once, OS 5 has been in development in Amiga by Amiga engineers and staff for over two years. We have made some amazing progress and we are pleased with the results to date.
Over the next 5 years you will see OS 4, 5, and version 6 in the market along with supporting builds and infrastructure across several digital devices.
-
@smithy
you have noticed that there are three pages of Q & A??
-
The more I think about it, the more I believe that the timing for this was not a coincidence. After years of silence, Amiga Inc talks now in a public forum all this previously private information (legal issues with Hyperion, OS5 in development since 2004, etc).
Their history has shown that they don't give a dime about the "community". I think they are using this forum for some reason. Maybe to send a warning to Hyperion?
-
With regard to the issue that you are talking about, we were notified by third parties that someone had manipulated and altered the ROM's. This is a violation of our IP and they were notified. We have since been told that it was not true and nothing was really done, that it was a manipulated video, not actual code that was changed.
Hum, not true for european people. Because such a try can be done for our own personnal "scientifics" researches, and mainly in France and Germany, if it's not commercialised...
What about USA ?
-
@Fransexy_
you have noticed that there are three pages of Q & A??
Erm.. I thought that was for the comments not the news item. Sorry chaps, I'm an idiot sometimes ;-)
-
I think they are using this forum for some reason. Maybe a warning to Hyperion?
More likely a public mudslinging. So let's wait how the Frieden's react to this during the IRC session.
I think there will be many *cough* "interesting" questions you could ask them.
However, not sure if they would like to respond to all of them.
-
I find it pretty hillarious that there is so much conpsiracy theores floating about. But, I guess that is what mostly kept the Amiga community alive for so long. I mean, at times, it feels like even finding a rock outside ones house, which sligtly reminds of a BoingBall, in some way could be related to the 'mysteries' of Amiga Inc.
As I have come to just look upon the Amiga as a fun hobby, my vision of the future was that OS4 was to be released and eventually getting the respect amongst the alternative OSes that it deserved. But, what I see when reading the answers from Bill McEven is a future I can't believe in. I just don't see the Amiga ever making the grand 'comeback'. If Amiga Inc. succeeds, well, then that's great, but... I'm pretty satisfied with things as they are now. I do have my old Amigas to play around with... and what the future brings doesn't matter to me, today, really. So, anything released in the future will be of interest to me, then... not now.
In whatever case, it was nice to read these answers. But, they were not really the answers I had been hoping for. I don't see things having changed the slightest the latest 5 years, or so. I don't believe they will the coming years, either. But, what the future brings I will get to see eventually. But, in the end, what I believe doesn't really matter, because what will be will be.
-
As everybody can see if they visit https://www.amiga.com/shop/, the site does indeed have a new certificate, issued by Starfield Secure Certification Authority on August 29, 2006. But... just click on the lock symbol or equivalent, depending on your browser, to see who the company that requested and obtained the certificate is! It is Amiga, Inc. (Washington), and not Amiga, Inc. (Delaware)!
this does not suprise me in the least. i work for a company who changes names regularly. this is usually due to being bought out, renaming to use a common brand or realigning the naming throughout the corporate entity. now i still receive bills and references to our company from two names ago(approx 5 yrs ago.) since it is usually difficult to change the names without a long drawn out process it is easier to just continue using the old name in reference to the supplier or starting a new account. so i repeat i am not suprised with this.
-
My my, now that certainly was a disheartening Q&A-session. Pardon me for not buying into the dream. At all.
It seems there is a strong lack of perspective and sense of reality.
Despite the clarification I can't help but wonder how these things could be developed in parallel, when they are clearly so radically different yet still retain an upgrade path - and how Amiga Inc. intends to compete on *any* level whatsoever with the juggernauts. I just don't think they have what it takes.
-
Turrican:
The more I think about it, the more I believe that the timing for this was not a coincidence. After years of silence, Amiga Inc talks now in a public forum all this previously private information (legal issues with Hyperion, OS5 in development since 2004, etc).
According to this:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=46657 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=46657)
Wayne initiated the contact. Not Bill McEwen.
-
As everybody can see if they visit https://www.amiga.com/shop/, the site does indeed have a new certificate, issued by Starfield Secure Certification Authority on August 29, 2006. But... just click on the lock symbol or equivalent, depending on your browser, to see who the company that requested and obtained the certificate is! It is Amiga, Inc. (Washington), and not Amiga, Inc. (Delaware)!
It is probably something as simple as they renewing the expiring license without changing the details.
-
Poster: Tomas Posted: 2006/9/14 13:35:47
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As everybody can see if they visit https://www.amiga.com/shop/, the site does indeed have a new certificate, issued by Starfield Secure Certification Authority on August 29, 2006. But... just click on the lock symbol or equivalent, depending on your browser, to see who the company that requested and obtained the certificate is! It is Amiga, Inc. (Washington), and not Amiga, Inc. (Delaware)!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is probably something as simple as they renewing the expiring license without changing the details.
Bahh!!! don´t burst his bubble, he thinks that has found the conspiracy of the conspiracies
-
It's funny so see this comment (http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3297&start=0#42889) and this comment (http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3297&start=0#42894) (although it was probably only joking) before the questions had been answered.
Rogue answered
this to the question about OS 5.0 (http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3297&start=20#42918): An eight letter word (bullsh*t). It can't get any clearer that there is something that really went wrong between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion.
-
Well, ok, I see.
Now Hyperion is a bad software-factory...AmigaInc pay for develop AmigaOS4.0 and PPC hardware, Trika isn't a partner for AmigaOS4.0
Early AmigaInc wasn't interested in AmigaOS desktop software market and absoluty not interested in Amiga desktop harwdare market.
Now, yesterday, seem that AmigaInc. work from 2 years ago to new AmigaOS5.0 (...was AmigaDE???)..but due to slow develop of AmigaOS4.0 by Hyperion...AmigaInc have to work for Amigans, so we will get a powerful and new generation of OS.
Well...well...I will see what will happen, I'm not a donkey, not a smart guy :-P but not stupid as Bill can think 8-) I'm boring...boring...poor AmigaOS2.1 made by BIG Commodore. :cry:
-
@humppa
there is something that really went wrong between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion.
That's kinds what I'm wondering too. OS4 took longer than expected to complete and Amiga Inc decided to pull the plug on Hyperion? If that's the case, the break might not be pretty.
Plaz
-
I find it funny that people say "I will never buy... " OS5, for example. How the heck do you know how things are going to turn out?
Admittedly, talk of OS5 and even OS6 worries me a bit. Considering that even for the smallest of software design projects, the development roadmap tends to look something like 'features intended for the next release' (eg. OS4), and 'features intended beyond the next release' (eg. OS5 or later). A competitive modern OS is extremely complex, and not something to be thrown out of the window and 'started again'.
Although, I guess it is possible that AInc have access to the OS4 source code and made their own branch from the code. It seems to be a bit antagonistic towards Hyperion to say that in public though. To me it reads like "OS4 isn't particularly relevant".
I think I'm beyond caring particularly one way or another wrt Amiga anymore, as a great deal needs to happen to secure Amiga's future. I'd personally like to see an operating system which has the advantages of the AmigaOS of old, on a viable hardware platform, so I guess I'll just wait and see.
http://os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz/
403. Hrm.
-
Maybe Hyperion`s OS4 site will be another Amithlon.net soon :o( Sounds like it`s started already.
-
AmigaOS 5 == Multi platform == AROS?
-
After i read this empty talk on a.org and a really good review od AROS on osnews, i made a final decision; AOSx is dead, long live AROS!
As soon as aros gets 68k emulation integrated like in MOS or OS4, i will setup my monthly payments to wishlist and NEVER turn back to AOS. Heck, this guy even bothers about obsolete 68k roms?!? Who gives a f*ck about them, why don't he let people play with it while waiting for OS4, OS5... OS42? :)
-
@mikey
From what I can gather(my pure speculation), Hyperion (Ben, not the Friedens) had the contract to develop OS4 and were paid in full for it but refuse to turn it over, citing that they are owed even more money than the contract allowed for.
Now, it's all in the hands of the lawyers as to who did what.
In the meantime Amiga Inc took what code they had (and it could have been all of it for all we know) -- hired some programmers and started working in-house on OS5 which was always slated to work on multiple platforms.
Remember folks, the apparent fight between Hyperion (not the Friedens) and Amiga Inc could have literally started two years ago for all we know. Also, people are really prone to slide a date here and there without meaning any harm. Kinda like my Dodge truck which is an 05 built in late 04.
What I'm trying to explain is that "two years" on this may have been "December 31st 2004" which means technically less than what? 19 months? Anyway, it's easier (and human nature) to round up that number to "2 years"
Me? Personally, I'm a skeptic. While I understand what Bill's gone through and have sympathy for his losses and respect for his determination, I don't know what to believe, or not to believe until I see OS5 running on something besides antiquated PPC hardware (which is my preference).
Even though I can't afford, nor justify, the flight to Amiwest for a one-day show, I'm SINCERELY hoping that we see and hear more there.
Wayne
-
Nobody interessted what that is? Could that be the Coldfire project(s) ? Elbox ?
Neither are a company that gross over 1/2 million per year, so by Bill's own words he is not interested in dealing with them.
Which on a side note is interesting... Considering probably the last time Amiga Inc themselves grossed 1/2 million per year was 1994, the year Commodore went bankrupt :-?
Amiga Inc < 1/2 million per year
Hyperion < 1/2 million per year
Eyetech < 1/2 million per year
Any prospective licensee >> 1/2 million per year?
:lol: Sorry Bill, no wonder nothing is going on.
-
An eight letter word (bullsh*t). It can't get any clearer that there is something that really went wrong between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion.
Well can you trust Ben sentences when you know there are problems regarding the two compagnies?
I only have some little things to add:
1. Hyperion was asked as third party to code OS4, they, as software compagny established a calendar to have OS4 out. Years after the work is still unaccomplished/unfinished.
Is it Amiga inc in fault if Hyperion isn't able to finished the work in the time they stated years ago? Meanwhile, young people created MorphOS in less time it takes to Hyperion to port existing code to PPC!!!!! So there's only two solutions if OS4 isn't out it's because Hyperion is waiting...waiting what? Or Hyperion is enough unskilled to make so many time porting an existing OS.
2. I had the chance to have an Amigaone, then entered in brief contact with Ben in order to discuss about a thing or two. One week after I sold my Amigaone, thinking 'enriching' this guy was out of my personnal goals. (Read I liked him before talking to him, I won't be able to talk to him again after having the 'chance' to understand that he don't consider as human everyone that has a different point of view than Rogue Squadron's One).
3. After having choosed to sell my micro-amigaone (that wasn't a finished machine it's the less I had to say), I had the opportunity to talk to Bill Buck. At times I hated him, based on he's sentences here and there, and the general "go away" attitude of the pro amiga community. Bill Buck isn't the person I thought, just talking to him correctly (and not as if he were a rogue) was really, really interesting at the point I now think the biggest error of Amiga Inc was to pass the OS4 work to Hyperion and not MOS team (and we don't talk at any time regarding Amiga, Amiga Inc, Hyperion and so).
5. Amiga Inc never commented publicly on Hyperion problems, that wasn't the case of Hyperion that always tend to send sentences like "bullshit" when they talk about Amiga Inc.
(I won't copy/paste the mail Rogue sent to the AmigaDE developer years ago regarding problems between Amiga and Hyperion, and that was years ago, and that wasn't to have sent to a developer mailing list since it was clear, it was 'internal mess').
6. The only way I see things improve is Hyperion starting to reduce their ego and start playing a good role...Or Hyperion closing he's doors for Amiga to choose a good third party OS4 developer or last, and probably the most possible future, OS4, Hyperion and Amiga Inc would have dig their grave.
Now I'm pretty sure 99% of you will think I troll, or things like that...Nevermind, I'm now totaly bored with Hyperion's narrow minded game and gone away, just hopping they will one day wake up admitting they are playing a deadly game!
-
Meanwhile, young people created MorphOS in less time it takes to Hyperion to port existing code to PPC!!!!!
Um.. MorphOS has been in developement for way longer than OS4. MorphOS was also ahead of it when they started the work and to me it now looks like OS4 has progressed past MorphOS in terms of both features and usability.
Though i do agree with some of your other points.
-
Neither are a company that gross over 1/2 million per year, so by Bill's own words he is not interested in dealing with them.
Which on a side note is interesting... Considering probably the last time Amiga Inc themselves grossed 1/2 million per year was 1994, the year Commodore went bankrupt
If I was in position of McEwen, why I should be interested to deal with companies without substantial money/revenue? Amiga Inc is now in position to control OS4 hardware and they can ask what they want. No money, no hardware. I hate to say this but seems McEwen knows what he is doing.
-
If I was in position of McEwen, why I should be interested to deal with companies without substantial money/revenue? Amiga Inc is now in position to control OS4 hardware and they can ask what they want. No money, no hardware. I hate to say this but seems McEwen knows what he is doing.
And how can McEwen expect that a bigger company will invest in AmigaOS when you consider the small community and how little there is to earn. The few Amiga only companies left actually basicly only earn enough to keep the store going and some even have to have a job on side. I think most people involved in the Amiga scene today does it as a hobby and because they love the platform.
Saying that you need to earn half a million a year, is like dooming it all to death. There is no one in the amiga scene with these kinds of money today.
-
> There is no one in the amiga scene with these
> kinds of money today.
Maybe, just maybe... and I know this will boggle the mind... Maybe Bill is aiming higher than this tiny hobbyist market which is why he's not interested in talking to a bunch of garage-level companies.
Wayne
-
Maybe, just maybe... and I know this will boggle the mind... Maybe Bill is aiming higher than this tiny hobbyist market which is why he's not interested in talking to a bunch of garage-level companies.
That is probably what he is doing.. But who in there right mind would invest such money into AmigaOS? There are a bunch of other platforms out there that is more up2date.
-
But who in there right mind would invest such money into AmigaOS? There are a bunch of other platforms out there that is more up2date.
That remains to be seen, but it's probably just a matter of marketing, and Bill was a marketeer before this, so...
-
I just have to say that the more I think of it... the more straightforward the answers seem to be.
I always tend to stay neutral when there are too much things to take into consideration to be able to make a judgement. And, in this very case, especially since once doesn't know the details of the legal issues concerning the very matter, I would go as far as saying that if I were to read the answers and assuming that they are correct and true... it all seems pretty logical to me, actually.
-
> I just have to say that the more I think of it...
> the more straightforward the answers seem to be.
That's what I'm trying to say. I know the Amiga community acts like a bunch of pedantic vultures any time anyone says anything. Picking every single word apart and going "what Bill meant to say was...." but McEwen's answers are there and they are straightforward, and they are logical.
The biggest problem between what was said and what you see now is that it was sent (by necessity) through the lawyers who wouldn't let him say some things as EXACTLY as he had hoped.
Suffice to say that there are some with agendas, and there are some who will never be happy no matter what Amiga Inc (or anyone else) does, or doesn't do.
Wayne
-
maybe Bill aiming high, problem is I don't think Bill and Co. have it in them. They are Johnny come lately to the amiga. Not only that they have very low level bussiness skills. (disaster after disaster)
they have NO proof that this OS 5 is actualy being developed and I seriously doubt is better than morphOS. They have made a mess out of amiga Inc. Having passed up every decent opertunity that came there way. Unless they deliver somting interesting sometime realy realy soon, I continue to think of amiga Inc/kmos as a big fat hinderence in the amiga world.
the way I see it is that hyperion at one time saw an oppertunity to take over the amiga OS, then they ran out of money and bill bailed them out. Well helped them out is a strong word for took an oppertunity to buy them out (when they where broke)... does it matter? they are both amatures.
See Bills not the kind of guy whos word you can trust, with him it's better to make him show you the goods. Sorry Bill your credit is not good.
BTW what pathetic is not that sombody made a big deal about not being paid, but that you let that happen. Also when you assets got sold, you know why that happend? It did not happen becasue you where running a tight ship... think about it I bet you can figure out a reason that happend? Anybody willing to give you money is a fool.
-
they have NO proof that this OS 5 is actualy being developed and I seriously doubt is better than morphOS. They have made a mess out of amiga Inc. Having passed up every decent opertunity that came there way. Unless they deliver somting interesting sometime realy realy soon, I continue to think of amiga Inc/kmos as a big fat hinderence in the amiga world.
See, that is where I never would go. I wouldn't say that they have passed up on every decent opportunity that they had. Why? Because, how on earth would I know what they have passed up on or not? Yes, as it have looked through the years... they haven't exactly seemed the most competent bunch of people... but that could aswell be just what it looks like. Sometimes looks can be just a little bit more than decieving.
It is really easy to go jugding them for this and that, but without seeing the whole picture one can't have much but personal opinons on the whole matter. And the less info there is to gather on the very subjets discussed, the less deemed to be dismissed as 'non logical' these personal opinions are.
-
with all due respect. 6 -7 years later whe should have SOMETING? Why waist more time? They are not cutting it are they? You want to buy into the next round of lies, go ahead I don't share your belife that amiag inc has any chance it pulling this off.
Just remeber, Bill showed up on 99 from the moon with big plan and no clue, now 7 years later he suddenly decided to make a stament and care about the community he just about demolished!
edit.
@wyane
what do you mean agenda, and who are you talking to?
I figured a bunch of you would flame me for not buying into Bill's new chapter.
Show me the product (like genisi did) and I will respect you, at this point it would be foolish to do anything else.
I disagree with wayne that these questions where answered "straight forward", I don't even think it was the right questions. I for one still think they are playing some kind of game. IF being a sceptic and realist is my agenda o.k. If my view does not fit withthe candy coated vision you wished for feel free to have your own view. Just don't get confused, I want to see progress and will be happy when I see it, just going to eb DOUBLE cautions with anything I hear Bill say.
-
No money, no hardware. I hate to say this but seems McEwen knows what he is doing.
I don't rejoice in the death of OS4, which is what this seems to imply. I could very well be proven wrong, but I doubt it. There is a reason 2006 is almost over and 2007 will come as yet one more year with no NG Amiga. This market is not small, it's non-existant. No company that grosses over 1/2 million a year would bother with it. Hell most bedroom part time companies wouldn't touch it.
-Edit-
Come to think of it in 2003 Anachronism Industries was probably the top seller of Amiga hardware in the USA(world?). Hell our sales probably topped that of Amiga Inc's. But I assure you it was nowhere near 1/2 million a year and we walked away from it. There is no market. A new market would have to be created.
Now i hope it's true there some big name licenses for Amiga retro DTV style products. If it's mass marketted it could work.
-
> with all due respect. 6 -7 years later whe should
> have SOMETING? Why waist more time?
By all means, stop wasting your time and feel free to move on. We'll miss you terribly, but that's just the price we will have to pay for being such stupid suckers.
:laughing:
-
with all due respect. 6 -7 years later whe should have SOMETING? Why waist more time? They are not cutting it are they? You want to buy into the next round of lies, go ahead I don't share your belife that amiag inc has any chance it pulling this off.
You don't have a clue as of what my beliefs are, so stop making it look like I have said something I haven't.
If you had read my earlier post you would have noticed that I said that I didn't really share the vision of the future that I got the impression that Bill McEven seemed to imply upon.
Besides, you have already decided that what you read is nothing but lies ('You want to buy into the next round of lies, go ahead'). I don't consider anything BEING a lie until it is proven so. What I believe, that is a completely different matter.
Just remeber, Bill showed up on 99 from the moon with big plan and no clue, now 7 years later he suddenly decided to make a stament and carea about the community he just about demolished!
If you can prove that Bill McEven have demolished the Amiga community, well, then, just go ahead and prove it. Thing is, since I have no grip of exactly what have been going on the last 7 years behind closed doors, I can't blame Bill for having demolished everything, if anything at all. It could just as well be due to bad circumnstances that things have turned out the way they have.
You and me differ. I don't speak of things I don't know for sure as they would be some kind of unqestionable facts (which it actually seems like you are doing, but I might be wrong here). Neither do I assume the worst, just for the sake of it (like blaming Bill for presenting a bunch of lies) . There is no way for you to prove, at this very moment, that what he is saying is a bunch of lies.
So... what does all of this lead to? Well, for instance, it does led to me not really taking what you are writing into that much consideration, because I don't see the logic behind your reasoning.
-
Wayne, thanks for pulling this all together. Much appreciated and another reason why I think Amiga.org is such a great community.
Bill, I thank you for your time in answering these questions. I'm sorry for the loss of your daughter. :( As a father of 3 I know it would tear me up.
Did this clear everything up for me? NO.
Did it give me some good info? I believe so.
Am I going to stay in and continue to support Amiga. YES!
I'm looking forward to getting my hands on some new hardware and software. Until that time I'll just continue to enjoy my A1200 and my A500 as well as continuing to use my Windows PC for the more mundane tasks until such time as a replacement new Amiga machine with a new OS comes along.
Long live Amiga!
-
@Legerdemain
"You don't have a clue as of what my beliefs are, so stop making it look like I have said something I haven't.
If you had read my earlier post you would have noticed that I said that I didn't really share the vision of the future that I got the impression that Bill McEven seemed to imply upon."
I never stated that I know you beliefs, sorry that you feel I puyt words into your mouth, I DID NOT. These are MY views
"Besides, you have already decided that what you read is nothing but lies ('You want to buy into the next round of lies, go ahead'). I don't consider anything BEING a lie until it is proven so. What I believe, that is a completely different matter."
WRONG, Bill lied before, I used to trust him, now he needs proof, that my opinion.
The difference is that I respect your view and DISAGREE. So what it a free world!
-
I don't share your belife that amiag inc has any chance it pulling this off
If that isn't putting words in my mouth, then what is? But, whatever, that is not what this thread should be all about, anyways.
Sorry for the inconvinience.
-
@wayne
I never called you a stuped sucker!
Just becasue I have MY OWN OPINION and am not afraid to post it does not mean you should riducule me!
BTW way wayne I mean why waist more time with Amiga Inc. Given the legal situation the evolution of hardware and software I dont think we realy need them any more...
I have moved on years ago, anything new AMIGA will just be a bonus, I just dont feel like sucking up to some CEO after he made a bunch of bad and IMO foolish decisions, why should I?
I will consider moving on, but most likely will hang around and share my view, Like I said if he comes trough, I will make a public post stating that I was worng! Tehn you guys can all shame me and I will take it. Will you do the same if this does not happen?
-
@Legerdemain
what are you talking about?
I got the impression that you thought that there was a chance this was maybe going to happen...
If you dont belive that they have a chance to get this done, fine I misunderstood you, sorry.
Will you accept this statment as an appology, I have like ZERO beef with you.
-
Be patient and do like me :
Upgrade your classic and buy a Pegasos, you won't waist your time and your money...
Earn your money and if a day something new labelled "AMIGA" is out, you'll be able to buy it :-)
-
I just want to say thank you to Wayne for putting together this Q&A section and to Mr.McEwen for responding to these questions in such a timely fashion.
While the answers presented here have not quelled my fears about the future of Amiga OS, or Amiga Inc in general, they have at least provided some insight into the current situation.
Regards,
Techie
-
"If you can prove that Bill McEven have demolished the Amiga community, well, then, just go ahead and prove it. Thing is, since I have no grip of exactly what have been going on the last 7 years behind closed doors, I can't blame Bill for having demolished everything, if anything at all. It could just as well be due to bad circumnstances that things have turned out the way they have."
O.k. amiga inc was the only co. that had the right to produce a new amiga, they had 7 years to do so, they did not manage to bring a new machine to the market. They did someting with cell phones. Had there been a product the community would have actualy EVOLVED! While they failed to produce this machine, others like genisi pulled it off, instead of helping them they stated a war with them divided the remaining community, which is distructive. Now after intese silence they show up gain with a bunch of promises and a wired sale and tranfer to a new Co. Fish if you ask me. Its gonna take MORE that a few words from Bill to make my buy into this...AGAIN.
this is my option, you can agree disagree and anthing else.
-
I see my question was selected and answered (3) but it seems the usual answer for anything related to Amiga was given:
Unfortunately, this is now in the hands of attorneys as we get everything worked out so that everyone, including the community, can enjoy this next step forward.
One does have to wonder why lawyers are always involved in anything related to Amiga. Sigh.
-
Thanks Bill & Wayne.
-
I got the impression that you thought that there was a chance this was maybe going to happen...
Well, that is from where the entire issue arised. I have never said that I have faith in Amiga Inc., just that I don't see how I can accuse them for things I don't know much about, and that I find the answers Bill McEven have given 'us' rather straightforward and logical. So, yes, you did misunderstand me.
If you are to disagree with my opinons, well, fine, you are entitled to have your own opinons. I just don't see the logic behind them, at all times.
But I think there is enough said on this matter. Let's move on, shall we?
-
@Atheist,
Maybe, they're (Troika) looking to pressure from us, to come to bear on Amiga Inc. to be given that license, after "the cat's out of the bag", so to speak??
Face it, Troika was an incompetent enterprise at best, and a hoax at worst.
You've got OS4, you've got your A1, be happy with that because that's all there's ever going to be. Overall you would have been better off just sticking with your Classic Amiga.
-
What serious company in their right mind would want to do business with companies like these?
What CUSTOMER in their right mmind would want to do business with companies like these? Yet some people did buy AmigaOnes. Go figure!
-
thanks to Wayne for puttingthis together,
thanks to Bill for being kind enough to respond to our questions...
I don't see it as a good use of time to formulate an indepth analasys of the whole situation as i am just not priviy to all the facts. However, i am happy that there was at least an answer from the darkness....
:-)
-
I don't rejoice in the death of OS4, which is what this seems to imply.
I didnt mean to imply it. However, what kind of benefit OS4 brings to Amiga Inc? Requesting money for hardware (even with insane requirements) is certain way to find new revenues. Giving hardware license for free is not good business from Amiga Inc point of view.
There is no market. A new market would have to be created.
Everything has its end. Finally.
-
The questions and answers are interesting, but in the whole scheme of things are totally meaningless.
There needs to be a new OS out there, there needs to be a new source of hardware, etc. That's it.
Nothing that Bill has said defines anything concrete.
The whole $500,000 issue seems stupid to me. If you can licence the hardware and software out, I say go ahead and licence it to whoever wants it.
If the company only manages to produce 100 boards before busting, at least that's 100 more boards than we had before.
I would suggest they should be more interested in quality and ability to follow standards than bank balance. It's not like Amiga is Apple or Dell and can go around making demands of manufacturers.
Realistically the hardware is worthless now anyway. Classic stuff is too outdated to be useful. Even the PPC boards are old tech. The OS is the only thing that has any value, and there's no decent reason that can't run on any hardware, except for some reason Amiga Inc. insists it must run on their licenced platform.
If anything, all he's said basically confirms that Amiga right now only exists to make lawyers richer, and the only realistic option for anything new tangibly Amiga related is AROS.
-
Thanks Wayne and Bill -
This is amazing stuff.
This really needs re-reading a few times.
Bill's considered replies really show that he has been on a huge journey since the Gateway days. His surprise at the leaked contract really showed that they completely took themselves out of the community these last few years. The new/old product fiasco is evidence of yet another shafting (I already knew about Merlancia etc) - but there are too many revelations to mention.
Let's hope this whole episode is a turning point in, not just luck but also, attitudes to one another in the community.
Let's keep our fingers crossed. :-)
Bty - I am also amazed by the minimig revelation. :-o
-
@jorkany
>>>Face it, Troika was an incompetent enterprise at best, and a hoax at worst.<<
If you have anything good to say fine. If not shut it! :madashell:
-
On a lighter note;
Isn't the rebirth of Bill McEwen and his first visit here (and not Amigaworld.net) a bit like Ron L. Hubbard walking past the scientology convention and addressing a Hari Krishna group instead? :lol:
-
@Colin_Camper
no it's not like that at all. It makes sense as it sounds like Mr. Bill McEwen is skipping OS4 and pushing his new OS5. I think amigaworld is very os4 centric, so they would eaten him alive, I think.
Sounds like Hyperion is out of the deal as soon as the laywers can make it so.
-
@Troika
>If you have anything good to say fine. If not shut it!
Why anything good?, I want hear also bad thing.
And "shut it" isn't a right comment: joarkany think that Troika is a bad company, then, where is the problem?Its his/her opinion on a company.
-
Just made a quick whois on amiga.com:
http://who.godaddy.com/whoischeck.aspx?Domain=AMIGA.COM
Last Updated on: 08-Jun-06
[...]
Issaquah, Washington 98027
[...]
Ravensdale, Washington 98051
Maybe everyone's too busy sorting legal papers, but this does look at least funny...
-
Troika,
If you have anything good to say fine. If not shut it!
Come on...if Troika ever manages to release anything - heck, even DEMO something working - then it will be *I* who is the joke! So go ahead and prove me wrong, but you gotta admit it's been what, two-three years and nothing to show for it...
How about this: I've got a custom PPC mobo that I intend will run OS4, I've been working on it in secret for the past three years. I'll be showing it at BB4 and AmiWest! There, now we're even, because I can't demo my board either.
:roll:
-
@jorkany
Really ? Great man ! Another mobo to run OS4 on ! Do you have a license ? When you gonna post a picture ? :lol: :-P
-
Seems like Amiga Inc. is just waiting for some silly developer to step into "Amiga OS/IP/HW/whatever" bear trap and then to sue his a*s for load of money doing nothing in meantime :(
Sell it Bill - SELL IT! :)...
-
[color=660000]Bill McEwen -- It is obvious to me that from this question and the others that are like it, that we have done a very poor job in communicating about Amiga.[/color]
what? is he living in an other planet?
-
@jorkany
tEH TRUE AMIGA!!1
;-)
-
Who is making the hardware? Samantha, powervixxen, Elbox?
-
From what I can gather(my pure speculation), Hyperion (Ben, not the Friedens) had the contract to develop OS4 and were paid in full for it but refuse to turn it over, citing that they are owed even more money than the contract allowed for.
I'm not sure but I think it's not about the money perse. I think there was also a clause that if Amiga Inc. would go broke or sold that then the rights for OS4 would go to Hyperion.
In the mean time Amiga Inc. has been sold to Amiga Inc. (aka KMOS inc.) to get rid of the three programmers that wanted to get paid for their work (Wayne, I think this sounds familiar). So I think Hyperion wants to use this fact to try to claim the right for OS4.
It would be nice if also somebody from Hyperion could be found to answer some questions.
greets,
Staf.
-
I offer my sincerest condolences to you and your family, Bill.
Thanks Wayne.
-
@ Mr. McEwen.
I usually do not post on public Forums, but after reading your answers to the 25 Questions that were posted, there is only one thing i can say:
personal attack removed by redrumloa
Taking a quick look on the last 5 - 6 years of Amiga history, you only ever claimed to develop either hardware or software, but never ever showed any of that "development" to the community.
And now you dare to show out off nothing and claim that "you" (which of course is the biggest lie of them all, because you have no idea of what Amiga means) are developing some hoax called Amiga OS5. I offer you all my savings if you show me just one little proof that OS5 exists.
I am sorry, but whoever that "Bill McEwen" guy is, just leave the Amiga COmmunity alone.
Stop annying people with your loads of sheit.
But hey, there is one thing you seem to be pretty good at:
Sueing people who are actively trying to develop Hardware and Software for the Community.
I am sorry to be so harsh, but you should have expected a reaction like that from a users
Dominik Bartz
---
moderator note: Please see Posting guidelines (http://www.amiga.org/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=6).
Blatant personal attacks are not permitted.
Criticize ideas, not people. Excessive flaming will not be tolerated. Users who verbally assault the character or person of other posters on a regular basis will be banned. Name calling is best left to grade school. Moderator's judgment applies here. "You are wrong" is not a personal attack; "You are an idiot" is. "You do not have all of the facts" is not a personal attack; "you are obviously clueless" is. These are generalized examples, but you get the idea.
-
after some thought...
Bill, why are you making another OS?
What will it have to over over linux, osx, morphOS or windowsXP?
Who is your market?
Did you at least do a market study to see if anybody wanted ore need this new OS?
Considering you are struggeling with your AmigaAnywhere what makes you confident you have what it takes to build a NEW os? (esp. considering the mess you made with OS4!)
Do you realy think you can play with the big boys?
(the other bill )
Why did you not realize the problems years ago and do something while there MIGHT have been a chance?
When did you realize that there is still and amiga community?
When was the last to time you fired up a classic amiga just to check it out? watched a demo or ran a game?
Have you ever used a toaster/flyer for a produciotn? Do you understand why that was a great product?
When was the first time you became aware of the amiga brand?
what experiences make you feel like you are a better leader today than you where in 1999?
what does amiga inc have today that can rival how unique the ORIGIONAL OS was in 85? It's been a long time since tha amiga was INOVATING, we are playing chatch up...(and not doing to well)
I realy don't think there is much demand for this NEW product. Since you are not doing anything with the old stuff please stop acting as a road block for hobbiest and consider giving the amiga back to the community that loves her. Haven't we all suffered enough (esp. under your rule!) Even for you, personaly and for your company, let her go end your agony!
-
There will never be convergence in a company's interest to make profit and nerd's wishes.
I get amazed with you guys, I just can't bother anymore... 8-)
-
I think the best interests of the community would be served by a slanging match between the two combatants (i.e. Amiga Inc and Hyperion). In the old days we'd have "Fleecy" and Ralph Schmidt going at it on ANN, and later Ben Hermans and Ralph, and later, Bill Buck and Hermans, etc, etc...
It was great, everything was out in the open, everyone had enough information to take sides and everyone watched on with fascination.
20 questions with Ben Hermans might be a good start?
-
Seriously though, I think more information about what's really going on would benefit us all. I have a feeling that this is the first step in a propaganda war between both sides, and the select few "friendly fans" of both sides who really know what's going on continue stoking the flames...
It looks grim for OS4, which is a tragedy given how much work has been put in by everyone. Yet more bad times ahead I fear :-(
-
WTF is this? A low flying time warp? OS5 on schedule and rockin'? Welcome to 4 years ago.....?
Seriously now....anyone buy any of this crap (apart from the Hyperion/AI OS4 dispute...which seems plausible)
:madashell:
-
The following is of course,my opnion but ought to be obvious:
The ridiculous extensions and other greed enacted by the U.S. Congress on behalf of some big entertainment corporations such as Disney have stifled innovation for the average citizen.
At a time when software,best selling books, and movies' life cyles was measured in less than a decade Congress extended copyrights nearly a century,allowed going back and copyrighting works that had fallen into the public domain under the laws then extant. If that wasan't ex post facto, what is?
But under current American law if I owned Amiga OS rights ,I could insist that no one be allowed to use any of it without meeting my conditions,no matter how greedy or even ridiculous. I could evn decide that I will not permit the ungrateful public to use it at all.And sue anyone who tried to do so.
And American law is particularly odious if it prohibits the user from making adjustments to a product so it will better meet his needs. Yet American laws in the form of the one-sided EULA software license does just that,and if every law were fully enforced the whole nation would be in jail.
Just too many lawyers.....
IF the very near future sees the release of Amiga OS on a game console /set=top box by a large manufacturer at a reasonable price THEN I will quietly celebrate.
Bill sell a few tens million installs of Amiga OS for Wii or PS3 or similar at $5? a unit and GET IT OUT THERE!
-
"IF the very near future sees the release of Amiga OS on a game console /set=top box by a large manufacturer at a reasonable price THEN I will quietly celebrate."
I actualy work for one of the big 3 in the console market (I work on the entertainment side), the idea of making a deal with a.inc is laughable.
Just look at the track record (or lack there of)
The sad thing as is used to be a cool OS and given some real leadership could have gone somewhere. But it too late there are many other options and the idea of doing business with Mr McEwen is a bad one. If the thing went open source we would ifcource consider it, until then linux it is.
-
@pierre
I think amigaworld is very os4 centric, so they would eaten him alive, I think.
:pancake: Bill McEwen for dinner :lol: :-P
-
(Legerdemain): I have come to just look upon the Amiga as a fun hobby ...(snip)... I'm pretty satisfied with things as they are now. I do have my old Amigas to play around with... and what the future brings doesn't matter to me, today, really
Couldn't have put it better myself... I also enjoy messing around with the old hardware and stuff, but could never justify an AmigaOne even when they were briefly available - due to the huge cost involved in buying one. Plus there's the issue of what it would be used for, above and beyond the "tinkering" I do with the classic stuff...
I wish A.Inc well, and hope something comes of the whole OS4 episode... But I feel the days of expensive proprietary hardware are long gone...
Even if OS4 is ported to inexpensive x86 hardware, it'd have to be sensibly priced (e.g. cheap!) for it to sell in any numbers, especially seeing as there are plenty of zero cost OSs to choose from...
Personally, I'm looking forward to see the direction the MiniMig will take... I hope that comes to market in one form or another...
And I'm also keeping an eye on AROS as that's improving all the time...
- Ali
-
Thanks Wayne and Bill.
-
yeah I agree also. but
@InTheSand
how do you expect eh minimig thing to make it to production when bill stated that deceded on someting else...(going a differt direction) how can He get a license to build it? We simply have to wait for a.inc to fold to do anything interesting.
I still want to know what how OS5 could be bettern that linux at this point? Why bother....
-
Very interesting.... Not very reassuring, but interesting.
Great job Wayne.
This sure seems to have brought everyone out to comment.
-
:roflmao: IN FOR THE DRAMA!!! :roflmao:
This is just a big soap opera and I love reading Bill M's responses and then people dissecting it. Oh boy I cant wait till the IRC BB4 chat. :lol:
-
Discover the McEwen Code
A best seller soon to be a major motion picture...
Really, people.
Just read the questions and then the answers. It's just that simple.
-
Seen "Thank You For Smoking"?
Another chapter for the history book, another interview that will be quoted in a few years for the joke effect.
I hang around
for another round
I'm hanging around
for another round
I'm hanging on
to the same old song
I hang around
for another round
Until something stops me
(The Cardigans)
Fraud or self-delusion, your choice ;)
-
Amiga Inc probably has the ownership of OS4 source code, so OS5 could be a multiplatform OS4.
I think that's good news.
-
Discover the McEwen Code
A best seller soon to be a major motion picture...
Really, people.
Just read the questions and then the answers. It's just that simple.
haha :-D
great comment and so true.
Mr McEven, my condolences for the loss of a family member. Also, thanks for taking the time to answer these questions and "baring your throat for the rabid volves"
-
Just read the questions and then the answers. It's just that simple.
It'd be simple if a) you knew everything Bill McEwen said was technically sound and he was incapable of saying anything but the truth, and b) the implications of what he said and didn't say were easy to know. But things being what they are, IMO there's plenty to speculate about if a person wants to spend the time. ;-)
-- gary_c
-
wayne said:
The biggest problem between what was said and what you see now is that it was sent (by necessity) through the lawyers who wouldn't let him say some things as EXACTLY as he had hoped.
Everybody should ponder that before posting.
-
JKD wrote:
WTF is this? A low flying time warp? OS5 on schedule and rockin'? Welcome to 4 years ago.....?
Seriously now....anyone buy any of this crap (apart from the Hyperion/AI OS4 dispute...which seems plausible)
Quoted For Truth, as the kids say these days.
-
I see now why AmigaINC has been silent for the last few years. As soon as they dare say anything, people jump at them without even proving them wrong first.
Not a single one of us knows what has been going on behind the scenes. For all we know, OS5 might both be built upon amigaos code and be nearly finished. I am indeed skeptical, but i still try to be open minded about it and will just wait to see what happens. The same thing about the tensions between hyperion and amiga, we just dont know the full story.
I for one look forward to see what it is about and wether OS5 has anything to do with amiga at all.
-
;-) Agreed. I too, look forward to more information from Amiga, Inc. These answers were illuminating, but they've only whetted my appetite for more.
The products that I'm in the market for are hardware running Amigs OS natively, and not hosted atop something else, as usefull as that can admittedly be. In particular, it would be nice to see Amiga desktops, laptops and handhelds.
@ Seehund:
:roll: I'm familiar with "QFT" from other sites, and was actually hoping not to see it here.... Oh, well.
-
@Argo and all
Discover the McEwen Code
A best seller soon to be a major motion picture...
Really, people.
Just read the questions and then the answers. It's just that simple.
I just started a brainstorming session for a good title for the TV series over at AW.net. Feel free to contribute.
Hans
EDIT: here's the link (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=20498&forum=2)
-
For those of us that have been out of loop does anyone have a quick reality check on where things stand?
It sounds from reading the responses that Amiga exercised a buy back from Hyperion but there are legal issues concerning outstanding payments for that IP.
A few years ago the Friedens indicated that they had no interest in migrating OS4 to an Intel architecture. Did the tune ever change and see a HAL introduced to make this practical?
I just can't imagine OS4 and OS5 being developed independently unless OS5 was mainly a set of extensions that were to be added to the foundation of OS4.
In the end, it's far too easy to be a naysayer when there is nothing tangible to bank on. The legal and technical hurdles look like a nightmare.
-
Mr. McEwen:
Can you please elaborate more on OS5? :angel:
Answering this question will cool -> :headwall: down
-
how do you expect eh minimig thing to make it to production when bill stated that deceded on someting else...(going a differt direction) how can He get a license to build it?
You need to reread that section, he said that Dennis (minimiga's creator) had decided on doing something else, ie not working with Amiga Inc. That doesnt prevent anything, for ROM availability we still have Amiga Forever tact (which is likely where they will be going) or use the replacement ROM that is part of the AROS effort when its completed. You could also require people to get there own ROM file from a current amiga.
-Tig
-
Amiga OS5 FTW!!!!!1!1!!
LOL.
But seriously, much thanks to Wayne and Bill.
:cheers:
-
@Gary_c
Well, that is all we have. What was asked and his answers. Speculation I feel is just a waste of time. Same as searching for hidden meanings. It is best just to keep one's eye and ears open and take in all the information that comes their way. Filter out the noise and base conclusion on what you know or think may be true.
-
@Wayne
(Cc'd from my post at AW...)
Since you seem to be able to communicate freely with Bill, could you please ask him these questions and relay the answers back? I think the answers will clear up most of the questions we have and should not break any NDAs:
Regarding OS5, will I be able to:
1. Take source code for any OS-legal AmigaOS 3.x program (ie a program that follows the guidelines in the Amiga 2.x/3.x programming manuals), compile it with the appropriate tools and expect it to work?
2. Take an OS-legal AmigaOS 3.x program from Aminet and have a reasonable expectation of it working?
These two questions will tell us all we really want to know about OS5 (source and binary level compatibility). Anything else is just details.
-
Thanks Bill and Wayne.
To Bill McEwen,
Thankyou for taking the time to answer our questions.
Gordon Proudfoot
MicroA1-C with IBM PowerPC 750 GX
AmigaOS4.0 pre-release, update #4
-
Thanks Bill for some good answers. It's understandable that you can't go into more details then you have already done.
I think that Bill McEwen has done a good job of answering the questions as good as possible. Remember he is in a position where he can't just tell every single company secret to everyone. That is standard company business. I even think that Bill goes further in providing answers then we could ever hope for.
And for the $500,000 revenue per year limit on businesses that can gain IP license.
That is a good move, and would even be considered standard in many businesses.
From how I understand it: Amiga Inc. is only interested in licensing their IP to companies that are able to get products to market and to stay on the market to help build the brand. Their not interested in small companies just barely getting a product on market and then goes bust without any support for the customers who has bought the amiga branded or licensed product.
IE. their interested in building their brand and not destroying it (even more).
And I would say that $500,000 isn't that much in this type of business.
I own a company generating more then twice that amount in revenue a year. And I would have a hard time sustaining a production of quality hardware and also provide support.
Companies of this size comes and goes all the time. So for Amiga to require that the company to have more then a certain amount of revenue is a good move, in the direction of establishing a more stable market.
-
And for the $500,000 revenue per year limit on businesses that can gain IP license.
That is a good move, and would even be considered standard in many businesses.
It might make sense for a big company with a very strong brand and product, but that is not the case with Amiga at the moment. You have to aim low atleast until you have built up the brand name again and have a great product that is also interesting for the non amiga hobbyists. You would have to market it alot to be able to gather any interest from outside of the community and i highly doubt that Amiga inc has the resources to do that.
Atleast you get some promotion of the OS if the amiga community gets their hands on hardware and the OS. I dont think Amiga INC would have much lose on handing out a license to for example ack other than maybe a bit of good OS reviews if the project is realized. Also we would get to build a software archive with more devs getting their hands on OS4 and having a good selection of native apps is also a good thing if they want to take it further in the future.
-
"Hi, it's Amiga Inc here, our security certificate has run out. Can you renew it please and send us the bill" and Starfield said "Yes, Bill, we'll do that right away"
This may apply for any other service, but a security certificate is a statement about who you are. This statement is not accessory to the service, but rather this is what the service, and what you declare, and what is verified, are all about. If you cannot even state properly who you ("us") are, then I would say that you have a problem. And if you call a certification authority pretending that you are Amiga, Inc. (Washington) when instead you know that you are Amiga, Inc. (Delaware), an unrelated company, then that could even be considered something like fraud, I guess.
Of course, this may be bordering conspiracy theory, but think about it for a moment, because it could even make sense: maybe they can't change the certificate, because their little secret is that the new Amiga, Inc. (Delaware) does not own the domain amiga.com. So they can only renew it by pretending that they are the dead company. Which, according to whois data, is the owner of the amiga.com domain. I don't think this is peanuts. People know how much a domain like this is worth, especially if they care so much about "intellectual property", and if they carefully transferred things from one company to the other in several steps. So, I'd be curious to know what is behind this. If it was just a mistake, it could confirm how everybody treated the two companies as if it were one, which is also a bad thing to do, when you are trying to avoid legal and financial problems by setting up a new and "unrelated" company. Certainly, by running two businesses with the same name, as they are doing now out of two states, and even providing and renewing services for each other, and in particular doing so on such important things like your web presence and your digital identity, you don't help support the "unrelated" claim.
-
Condolences
With my deepest respect for what happened, I am not sure about how appropriate it is to mention this personal tragedy over and over again in this unrelated thread. I mean, we are going on with condolences and thanks for condolences after more than two years after the event, and after this already came up on Amiga mailing lists and sites of those days (such as Amigaworld.net (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4608&forum=17) and Moo Bunny Amiga (http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbthread.pl/amiga/expand/109523?page=1)).
I am mentioning this now just in case it is not clear that we are talking about events which happened in May 2004.
-
@JoePillow
You have no idea what you're talking about. A digital certificate is tied to an URL and can be renewed only if you have the private key (which only the hosting company and maybe the customer will). So even if the one asking for certificate renewal is not the actual owner, the only one who benefits is the owner of the actual certificate. Certificate renewal is also cheaper than getting a whole new cert because renewal is done by running a small script (or pushing a button on Windows), whereas a brand new cert requires verification of who you are so it takes a lot longer. I can hardly blame Amiga Inc for choosing the cheap route.
-
With my deepest respect for what happened, I am not sure about how appropriate it is to mention this personal tragedy over and over again in this unrelated thread.
I actually did not hear about it until i read this Q&A session, so i strongly felt like giving a condolences even if it was late.
-
Poster: Piru Posted: 2006/9/14 3:12:10
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to the issue that you are talking about, we were notified by third parties that someone had manipulated and altered the ROM's. This is a violation of our IP and they were notified. We have since been told that it was not true and nothing was really done, that it was a manipulated video, not actual code that was changed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.doobreynet.co.uk/beta/ - manipulated video? really? Anyway, how does hosting a video breach amiga IP?
.. hmpf <%u§$> ..
-
Well, only saw the the answers today. Thanks to Bill for answering the QA.
However, it's just the same old fluff we've seen so much of. Not even worth getting a new supply of popcorn.
-
@odin:
wait till after the IRC chat.. THEN you can get your popcorn.. :lol: :popcorn:
-
From the personal note:
Think of my surprise when I learned that all of our inventory was sold for $75,000.00 to a company in India, when we were generating more than that on a monthly basis. This created a big operational hole for the company and caused us great harm in our ability to move forward. This hardware was not even put up for bid or auction, and nobody was consulted in the process.
Was Petro responsible for that? Maybe why he got fired?
-
Personally I find all this news very refreshing and positive. There is some vaugness about certain answers and ok, that's to be expected esp if there is legal mess to clear up. Don't know of any company opperating that hasn't had some of that legal mumbo jumbo to go through.
I'm wrapped at what I found out, that AMIGA hasn't just been sitting around doing nothing, that they have been busy developing and sourcing to bring their product forward, it's great news. Time will tell of course. Seeing as though the PS3 release date has recently been pushed back till March next year (due to production problems) the only other solution does seem to be something like Trokia however now that I have read this post by Bill, there may also be some other offerings available. Anyway, regardless, this post has helped me retain my faith in the product, I really would like another AMIGA in an up to date from, so I'm going to keep haging in there.
My only one request at this time is that AMIGA themselves get a little more involved with the community. I know that time is a factor and there are negative nay sayers but they are present in everything. This kind of communication is very welcome. Personally, I'd like to see more of it.
-
I would be very happy with OS5.0.
Let's focus, what new has come out in as many years. our classic hardware is getting older and parts failing all the time. If OS5.0 builds on the essence of OS3.X, then I see this as good.
Look what happened to windows tryign to please everyone: its bloated.
I for one am waiting to see what SO5.0 is when it comes out.
I appreciate Bill's efforts and wish him well, especially in light of difficult times for him: how many of us would still step up tot he plate the way he has.
One thing is for sure, we need to stick together. I know its frustrating.
One thing is for certain, Amiga is not dead and there are plans.
-
So, Amiga of Washington sold everything to iTech and closed it's doors . Then iTech became KMOS, or sold it to KMOS, who then became Amiga. With the same personnel in every company, or at least most of them. Delaware Amiga ended up with all the IP and supposedly paid money for it. Washington Amiga was abandoned along with its debts.
So, Mr. McEwen, if there was no deception, and this isn't a shell game, then, who will pay Amiga (Washington's) bills then? You? Delaware Amiga?
It seems to me like Amiga sold its' IP to another company with some of the same higher up individuals who then re-named it Amiga. Viola! No debt! And Amiga's IP! Where's the money from this sale? I bet that's where Garry Hare fit in-the unrelated entity who could buy Amiga then sell it again to a newly incorporated entity of the original personnel, in a new state.
Were there no deception here, and if you and Amiga were as stand-up as you would have us believe, then I'd be getting paid every month on the debt you owe, and I'd instead be writing a lovely, congratulatory letter on how well Amiga are doing. You know that I would be, if this were the case.
Maybe I should point the SEC to this thread. Maybe they'd be interested in this obvious scheme to cleanse the Amiga name of the debts it ran up, or maybe in this post-Enron era this isn't illegal anymore. I don't know.
Still a bunch of marketing speak, or as my late father would have called it, 'b*******.'
-
Guys, HUGE NEWS!
I was doing some research on the net and I found out that there is already OS10! This must be a shock to amiga inc, but a small california company by the name of apple computer REALEASED OSX ( thats OS10!!)
http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/index.html
Not only has it been released, it available for X86!
It looks like a sweat OS! I can't belive the feature list. Bill you simply must check this OS out, I'm sure you will want to add similar feature to your OS. Just give it a look see and see if it gives you any ideas. As for anybody that is waiting for OS5, I think you should "skip" OS5 and move forward to OS10 it will blow your mind!
Ps. I am willing to do some consulting work for amiga Inc, if they need help, but I'm not cheap ($500.000), but I could help avoid such supprieses as developing on OS 5 version behind the current standard for sure!
One thing's for sure Amiga Inc is on it's last breath, Hyperion and Itec are sitting in the corner waiting to take the kill, but wait it looks like apple as stolen the market and long gone off with the booty! Sorry guys , you snozze you loose!
-
From the personal note:Quote:
Think of my surprise when I learned that all of our inventory was sold for $75,000.00 to a company in India, when we were generating more than that on a monthly basis. This created a big operational hole for the company and caused us great harm in our ability to move forward. This hardware was not even put up for bid or auction, and nobody was consulted in the process.
Was Petro responsible for that? Maybe why he got fired?
bill mcewen is a better leader for sure. But I think this may have happend after Petro.
Bill are you sure you are not forgetting some part of the story here? Maybe you made a deal with realy nasty VC (senture capital) people who though you where failing and did not want to give you money for ideas they thought where bad? Maybe the fact that you where not paing you coders was putting the bonding company on edge. I don;t kneo someting about yout answer makes me think you have forgotten some facts..... :-)
-
Poster: pierre Posted: 2006/9/19 8:29:41
Guys, HUGE NEWS!
I was doing some research on the net and I found out that there is already OS10! This must be a shock to amiga inc, but a small california company by the name of apple computer REALEASED OSX ( thats OS10!!)
http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/index.html
HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
Brilliant!!
OS 10, or 'OS X' as the 'Mac geeks' like to call it, is pretty mind blowing in a lot of ways. It is stable, secure, and efficient, as seen here rockin' a G3-450/Radeon 7000 where it will happily capture video thru the firewire port all day long. It's even got lots of drivers! Schweeet! Also Amiga-like, it seems to get faster with each new OS release-and these releases seem to happen with STUNNING regularity-it just keeps gettin' better and BETTER!!
OK, fanboy mode off ;-)
But seriously, I posted last night in reply to this chain of marketroid drivel, and Wayne moderated it in about five minutes. Was it because I said a naughty word at the end? Or was it because I called attention to the fact that McEwen and friends created a shell company, sold all AI's assets to it, then created another company in Delaware, sold the shell company's assets to it, then closed down the previous companies and, viola'! No debt!! And all the principles of the 'new' Amiga are the same as those of the 'old' Amiga! I think it's called FRAUD, but I'm having my attorney check on that :-D
My late father, who co-incidentally died the same month as Bill's daughter *and yes I've personally offered my condolences to Bill about that, it eclipses this whole circus by far* would have called that 'horse puckey'.
Wayne, thank you for moderating out my last post about this soo quickly, wouldn't want anyone here to be exposed to any naughty words or negativity about Amiga, Incorporated.
It's a good thing they're on top of guarding their IP by shutting down your little Amiga.org shirt operation on Cafepress. You could have made fifty bucks without them getting their cut! :lol: What were you thinking?!
-
What happened is that Bill didn't do his due diligence well enough before he bought into Amiga. Petro had a 'sweetheart deal' with the Germans and in fact was contractually prevented from being fired by Amiga-they couldn't get rid of him. Petro was a very smart guy. He also was the exclusive recipient of OS 3.9 revenues, not Amiga, and this was also unknown to Bill when he signed on, and he found out later to his dismay :-(
Petro didn't like American Amiga companies much (can you blame him?) so he pretty much did what he could to stick it to them. See the 060 deal, where he subsidized Phase5, selling them 060 CPUs for two hundred bucks less per chip than American companies, such as DKB, could get them. Suddenly, Phase5 060 boards were much cheaper than the Wildfire! Ask any American Amiga retailer, of which I was briefly one, and they'll tell you about how Petro sold European companies A1200s for literally hundreds less per unit than American companies could get them-sometimes American vendors would buy them from Euro vendors as it was still cheaper than getting them direct. Thanks, Petro!
At least you could get Petro drunk and he'd give you Amiga stuff like tie clips, lighters, etc. :-) Petro was more fun to party with..
Anyway, yes, Petro did kinda stick it to Amiga and it was a bad deal for them. Sales of Amiga hardware were subsidizing things like paychecks. :-( I don't know if Bill really could have known all this when he signed on, as in, it might have been very difficult for him to find it all out, and Petro took major advantage of that fact.
-
finaly sombody with a spine and some knowlage! Mods, if you delete this mans works are just censoring what many true amiga fans think!
-
@Bolten,
It's because you just had to jump out here with an agenda. Trust me, I understand because I too have been fscked over by a Bill (not McEwen) and yes, I have trouble holding my tongue some times, but your post was inappropriate and -- as usual -- out of place in this thread, not to mention it violated several of the site (and thread) posting guidelines.
Also, you might want to rethink that whole "Attack Wayne" philosophy as well, because while I have a moderate amount of sympathy for your plight, traditionally it doesn't play well with me.
Wayne
-
Pierre,
No one was censored. His post -- though inappropriate -- still exists. It has simply been removed from public viewing for legal reasons that I won't go into.
The community asked a question, it was answered. This is not the place nor time for Mr. Peck to -- yet again -- attack Mr. McEwen on a personal level. We all know he's pissed because he feels he is owed something, so him speaking out in the fashion he did is no more valid than when I point out that I (and the entire US team) was fscked over by Bill Buck and Genesi.
That being said, if Mr. Peck wishes to contest the assertion by McEwen that he was, in fact, offered a settlement and refused to take it, then that's a different story. The fact is however that Amiga (Washington state) no longer exists as a corporate or other entity and therefore no longer owes anything to anyone.
If Mr. Peck wishes to contest that, he can easily and rightfully do that in a court of law. He'll lose, but he can try. Anything else is just bordering on libel and subject to retaliation by Amiga Inc.
I'm sorry that you're so closed-minded as to consider that "censorship", but I personally don't want to be placed in the middle of a battle between Peck and McEwen. I've given up expecting my $12 grand from Buck. It's time he gets over whatever he thinks he's owed by a company that no longer exists.
-
Well O.k..
wayne if I where you I would not stand so close to amiga inc., not only does it smell funny overthere it's not legal and I would be not be suprised if that house of cards fell.
"
That being said, if Mr. Peck wishes to contest the assertion by McEwen that he was, in fact, offered a settlement and refused to take it, then that's a different story. The fact is however that Amiga (Washington state) no longer exists as a corporate or other entity and therefore no longer owes anything to anyone.
If Mr. Peck wishes to contest that, he can easily and rightfully do that in a court of law. He'll lose, but he can try. Anything else is just bordering on libel and subject to retaliation by Amiga Inc.
yeah well amiga inc is disolved so I don't think you can still commit "libel" or be retaliated by "Amiga Inc."
sounds like Amiga Inc is one step away from becomming the local Enron.
Also accepting a settelment means they may not have offered him all of his money. Would you have accepted the settlement?
Why hold back info, if you have it speak, remeber Amiga inc staged there own death to avoid all this legal mess. IMO Bill McEwen has (if nothing else) some serious hutzba for suggesting that he is going to to anything amiga, and if we ignore OS4 and OS5 we may finaly be able to shake those people for good.
My new stament:
Is that Amiga Inc. or is it just Elvis?
or
"amiga inc is dead, long live amiga inc."
-
Again, I ask you why you are in this thread with such a crappy attitude when you should just ignore it?
> yeah well amiga inc is disolved so I don't think
> you can still commit "libel" or be retaliated by
> "Amiga Inc."
Good thing you're not a lawyer, but for the fact, the personal attack was against Bill McEwen, not specifically Amiga Inc.
Again, Mr. Peck has done nothing to challenge the assertation that he was offered a settlement and declined it. How I feel or what I'd do is completely irrelevant since no one knows the terms of that offer.
Suffice to say that if I were offered a reasonable settlement from Buck, I probably would have taken it and moved on. Happy? No, but I would have had closure and been able to chalk it up to his bad management, and my bad choices.
Closure is obviously what Bolten is missing and needs from this.
Wayne
-
Again, Mr. Peck has done nothing to challenge the assertation that he was offered a settlement and declined it. How I feel or what I'd do is completely irrelevant since no one knows the terms of that offer.
Why should he "challenge the assertion"? It's his business how he wants to deal with any offer that, one would suppose, falls significantly short of what he is legally owed.
Suffice to say that if I were offered a reasonable settlement from Buck, I probably would have taken it and moved on.
A settlement?? Doesn't that imply a legal proceding? I wasn't aware that you took Genesi to court. I had thought what makes Amiga, Inc.'s situation different is that the people whose claims have been recognized by the court aren't simply individuals claiming they are owed by a former employer who thinks they aren't; rather, an outside authority has weighed in on the case.
-- gary_c
-
@Wayne
Any chance Bill will answer any of the alternate questions you forwarded to him or another batch of questions? :-?
-
I've asked him for a few answers, yes. I haven't exactly gotten around to "round 2" yet.
Wayne
-
"His post still exists, but no one can see it' That's called moderation Wayne. My post was moderated. Censored, if you will.
Wayne, I have not, until pretty much yesterday, been offered any concrete numbers, stock options or anything else. Garry Hare told my attorney in April 2003 that we'd be paid with money by the end of the month. Then, nothing. For three more years. Is there any ambiguity here? There was NO OFFER MADE.
Then there was some talk about Bill paying his share over time, which I was down with, but then of course he couldn't do it, legal reasons, blah blah blah, not his fault, and so on. Again, I was happy to accept that cash offer but it didn't happen either. Maybe it really wasn't Bill's fault he couldn't come through.
A few months later his attorney was talking about settling us out for like ten grand. Uhh, no. Also, nothing in writing.
Yesterday, I got an email with a very legitimate sounding offer from Bill. This is the first real, positive note in this whole thing, pretty much ever. It will be 'for real' when it's faxed to my attorney and my collections agency with a cover letter from his/Amiga's legal firm.
I think Bill wants to get past this, I know I do. After this I'm gonna keep quiet, I hope my next post will be like 'Hey, Amiga paid me! YAAAYYYY!!!'
This is good progress, and I'm actually happy with it so far. But, this is the farthest things have ever gone in terms of Amiga settling up, and so far it is an email only. I wish Bill would have responded to my email from last week, before this thread came out. Bygones..
-
I'd just like to thank Bill for agreeing to chat and answer question and being so transparent. Over the years I have seen the community trash efforts being made to move foward and be negative way too often even in the original Commodore days of the platform. There are always setbacks in business. It's really how you deal with them that shows your leadership.
I really have to respect someone who continually walks in-front of the firing line of a very negative community that has had to deal with setback after setback.
Not everyone in the community is negative and there are some shining stars still out there. In general, even reading through the comments after this posting, I really have to appreciate Bill McEwan. He is not only very brave but very commited to this business and this platform.
There's a very old book that starts with "It was the best of times it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom it ... it was the epoch of belief it was the epoch of incredulity"..
I have to say Bill has weathered it all with style and class.
-
@wayne
Thanks for facilitating the q/a session. I also have mixed feelings about all this and like many others am very frustrated about the lack of feeling of progress in any real discernible manner.
One question I had that was not at all addressed but was hinted at was what about the couple thousand PPC accelerated OS4 compatible-classics out there. It sounds like even if they wanted to sell OS4 to those users there are legal issues.
What are the chances of a q/a session with Hyperion? I know at this point it's almost as bad as say a group of teenagers trying to fix a high school relationship between a couple but nonetheless its all we have right now.
Showing even some features as a list of the OS5 progress Bill claims the team has made would probably sate (as much as is possible in this community) many of the Amigans here.
Thats all for now while I collect my thoughts.
-
All I want to hear / see from Bill, per my emails..
#1 There are more of us out there that might spend less than 500 to explore a new generation of amiga. That being said Eyetech, dead, peg not allowed to run aos(anything), Troika not accepted ?? No board??
So where is it? :madashell:
Bill work with the people (aka us) and the people making hardware(pegs, troikas, anyone but eyetech), no one can port, write etc for amiga if there isn't a large number of low cost systems available..
If it is the ppc arch in the way fine, go amd, ia64 something..
As for another AOS? Where is the last one, a new one, arguments fine but we all still just want to see something now,, think a1000/500/1200 entry level like that little thing peg is trying to make.. Simple just enough power to start working on bigger things..
I swear I don't even know why I rejoined / posted, I guess I just keep wishing, dreaming of a day like the day I got my first a500..
The closest Ive gotten to that in years was when I tried e17live lately..
:rtfm:
No rumors, vague plans etc guys HARD FACTS, Prices, options, Vendors dates.. and do it, don't wrangle, debate and for gods sake the days of $1-3k desktops are goooooonnnnneeeee...
Even apple gets it,,, dang it all to heck :rtfm:
-
A little late on posting, but oh well, so was Auzieman :)
So, Auzieman, the reason why you rejoined/posted is because you're hopeful. Fortunately not as naive as the rest of the people here. First of all, to those that are calling a lot of other people negative, realize this: we're not negative, you're just gullible and naive and we're trying to open up your eyes. Most "negative" people here have NO direct benefit from making you open your eyes. No, our only benefit is making the Amiga community better, which, guess what? Is good for you too! Now, there are some other people, who try to sell you stuff. Those are a different bunch, but they seem to hold sway over many of you... Sad. Personally, I feel that NOTHING of what was "answered" here would have been regarded as the truth by normal human beings. Seriously. I challenge you. Take a NON-Amigan (friend or family member), and ask him or her to read the Q and A. Then ask them a simple question: bull or not bull? I'm certain you'll get the same answer over and over and over again.
Before we continue, please be aware: this will be long, but I've tried to make as meaningful comments as possible (aka used my brain, proof read, spellchecked, etc), so as not to waste your time. Despite this, you might not like what you hear. That isn't my goal though. Making everyone, including myself, think is my main goal.
Now, I personally don't know Mr. Bill, or any of the other cronies involved, and I mean good and bad guys too. Like many of you, I'm an Amiga fan because I fell in love with the machine, the software, the vision, and whole bunch of intangible fluff back when I was not even a teenager and since that day I was drooling to have an Amiga. Didn't happen... for a while. Had to buy an Amstard, no, not the one with the floppy, but with the tape drive! (464), and satiate my boyhood dream of having a computer of my own. And it was literally my own. I put up most of the money. Anyhow, then on to PCs. Yuck, I know. DOS, Windoze. Finally was able to get an Amiga, and as for the PC hell, I was finally saved by Linux. Never looked back and now I'm happy with my Macs, Linuxized PCs, and of course with my ample collection of lovely, yet dying, Amigas.
Anyways, nostalgia aside, my point is: I don't get involved with rumors and the community often, as I lurk and muck with stuff on my own, but yet I see a very depressing state of affairs. The Amiga community being fooled left and right, with vacant hopes and dreams and a whole bunch of {bleep} frankly. And another thing that's rather disturbing is that a big part of the community is average users even when it comes to the Amiga, basically not real technoids. Scary. For example, a lot of the people here are not technical in any sense, more so programmers. When did move.l #4,a6 last make sense to you? Perhaps I'm biased from knowing people from the demoscene. Forgive me, it just scares me. What I'm trying to say is: the ones that keep the Amiga alive are those out there that are making or patching/preserving software.
So look around you, and listen to what Mr. Bill and a whole slew of others say, but in the end, look also at WHO HAS GOT SOMETHING RUNNING? I only see AmigaOS 4 from Hyperion, in beta of course. But it's out there. Secondly, look at the track record of these guys (this includes you allhail). I cannot believe I hear people talking badly about them, and granted, I don't know them or anyone from their crew, but as a developer I really don't see them spending tons of time and money, and then trying to sabotage their own products. But back to the point, look at their track record! Who's made PC games such as Quake and others a fscking REALITY on the Amiga? Did Mr. Bill? Or God forbid, C= itself? No. These guys did, so you all could frag each other. What? When was the last time you saw this page: http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz:8080/amiga/frameset_html?func=projects Who's been keeping your precious PPC Amiga busy with code? These guys. These things to me, and should to you too, speak LARGE WORDS: commitment, dedication, results, deliverables.
There's one more issue I'd like to approach from the technical side again. Some person (I really want to name him dolt, idiot, twit, etc, but let's not), said something about Hyperion having problems or refusing to port AmigaOS 4 to a non-PPC platform. I don't know if they've publicly said something to this end, but once again reason says: these guys have ported MUCH non-PPC software (ex: Quake) to the AmigaPPC. What makes you think they'll have a hard time doing the opposite? Sure, it won't be easy, but being a developer I can say that developers of their caliber will not really sweat too much over it. Also, since we're in the year 2006 it'd be a safe enough assumption to make that most of the code for AmigaOS 4 is not pure assembly, therefore portability is very easy, baring the last 5-10% of platform specific implementation (dealing with locks/semaphores, interrupts and hardware stuff like throwing the CPU in/out of supervisor mode, etc). So, once again, is it really Hyperion that's having a problem/reason for not porting AmigaOS 4 if they were so asked? I highly doubt it. These guys have more than proved their meddle, IMVHO (in my VERY honest opinion).
But just to be impartial, and since I don't know the Hyperion crew, I'm not saying there's no better team to write AmigaOS 4. Perhaps there is, perhaps as suggested by someone the MorphOS guys could do a better job. I don't know. What I certainly can say though is that I've seen NOTHING from Amiga Inc that would even tempt me to assume they could. Not a thing. Of course this void maybe be reflective in their choosing Hyperion... but that's highly illogical and improbable.
But just so I don't sound one sided, I'll give some other thoughts, based on actually reading and trying to understand the answers. When Mr. Bill talks about companies making 500,000$, I don't think he's necessarily referring to companies selling Amiga-only gear. Perhaps he is, but I think what he might have meant is that the company has got to be making (net?) profits of at least that much, on ANY gear/items/goods, to be able to make the contract with Amiga Inc. I understand it, if that's so, but frankly, as some other readers have noted, who the heck does he think he or his company is? All it ends up doing in the end is prolonging the suffering death of our beloved Amigas and our community.
Related to this, I have to say that I met Mr. Jens Schoenfeld (sorry for the spelling if it's wrong) and his partner Oliver at AmiWest this year (PS. More of you loud mouths should come next time, just so we can make more noise). It was a great opportunity, because I'd never met such hardcore and true Amiga engineers and fans before. All I can say is that this guy keeps our gear and machines running, and also moving forwards. Of course with Mr. Bills attitude he'd have no chance to help en-masse the entire Amigadom. But such are the sad affairs of the Amiga. These are the heroes that keep the Amiga spirit (and body, aka chips) alive, and yet very few thank or even help these guys. Even the pungent smell of the rotting corpse of the once great Amiga community around you cannot wake up some of you poor souls, so that you to realize that we're SOL: $hit out of luck. We're on our own. There's no messiah in the form of a big (Amiga/Commodore) company to help us out. We have to help ourselves out, and we can very well start by supporting fellows like Jens and others making REAL, TANGIBLE effort and products. One more great guy I met there: Matthew of AmigaKit. I met the guy, what a fantastic chap, as you Brits would say. True Amigan. Thanks to all these guys for coming all the way to this side of the world. And a local: Carl Sassenrath. This guy is THE MAN. Certified, guaranteed, registered, whatever have you! Period. And many if not all of us guys left our girlfriends and wives (you know... family...) at home and spent the night there. Finally and just in case you didn't know, or hear, Mr. Bill never showed up. You know... Family... issues...
One more thought I had, and I know the words "conspiracy theory" have been brainwashed into everyone's head as an inseparable couple, but really, not every conspiracy IS a theory. Just because you and I don't know it's true or false, doesn't make it theoretical. Anyhow, from reading all this mumbo-jumbo, it seems very certain that Amiga Inc tried changing "identities" because it had legal troubles. Either with former Amiga Inc members (Bolten Peck) or even with current "partners" (Hyperion). Anyhow, so here's a thought that popped into my mind, especially after reading amigadave's diacritical view on the affairs: Amiga Inc might be purposely making the "finding PPC hardware" situation hard, because after having clashed heads with Hyperion, figures out: this is how I will force Hyperion into submission: make it so that no hardware will exist for their product, thus no sales possible for Hyperion. Now think about it. If Hyperion did all the work, why wouldn't they want to release it? What is their reason, their rationale? Of course getting (more?) money from Amiga Inc is one reason to keep it back, but from the looks of things, they're never going to get any of that money. At least that's how I would be seeing it, if I was them. So perhaps they're thinking of releasing it and making that money back on their own. On the other hand Amiga Inc never created the OS, so they aren't feeling the "pain of stunting their newborn", but are unhappy (I don't know the exact reasons for this, Mr. Bill never mentioned them), and so they might have to decided that if they can't take it from Hyperion, at least they won't let them have any piece of the cake! Sounds very plausible.
Thanks for reading. May I end with a wish, that all that I thought and assumed are totally wrong, and that there's a new future for the Amiga out there.
Creds/respect:
--------------------
Thanks for your efforts Wayne. Sad to see the desperation for hope, but it's not like I'm not hoping either... We all are, that's the problem many times. We're just hoping, not helping.
Pierre: In general the comments rhyme with me, but please learn how to spell or use a Mac :) It hurts when reading! Also, I can sympathize with your aggravation when you're trying to explain to people (like Legerdemain, what a head-case...) that Amiga Inc's LACK OF DOING (or hindering) has not helped but further weakened the Amiga community by offering false hope, at which point many members just "move along", or basically give up. He and others don't see the connection, but I'm certain deep down inside they feel the Amigadom shrinking like a shriveling organ of an old person (perhaps their brain?). I also like to say the "after some thought" list was well constructed. Loved the part about "When was the last to time you fired up a classic amiga just to check it out? watched a demo or ran a game?". Too bad we won't be getting any answers for those questions. Interesting thoughts on AmigaOS going open source... Perhaps someone on the inside would care to leak it on our behalf? Love the "HUGE NEWS!" post as well.
Argus: Love the "If I ever think in the future my toaster or coffee maker needs 'digital convergence', then I guess we could talk about your AmigaAnywhere/OS5 (dumb name though imho)" comment!!!!! (among others)
Plaz: agreed with you: Mr. Bill show us the screenshots, or anything! Give us a real bone... As for pulling the plug, if you don't have a Plan B, you don't pull the plug after investing time and money, and even so, AmigaOS 4 is still there, real, tangible, even if not fully completed. Makes no sense logistically or from a business perspective. Now, from a "I've got a bone to pick with you" perspective, then I can see pulling the plug as an alternate option...
Jahc: Make it easy on yourself: Mac OS X and Linux. They're the closest to the Amiga that I've found.
Dammy: Ram it in (to them)! :)
narcea: "same old regurgitated junk" - same feeling here, as well as your other paragraphs.
weirdami: "It's a little unusual that there had been no leaks or even rumors of OS5 being worked on at all. They must be a dedicated crew that keeps at it instead of going" - Dedicated crew? My dear fellow human being, isn't it obvious? Do you prefer a sledgehammer for beating it into you? I'm sorry to snap you out of the dream, but there is no OS5, that's why there aren't rumors about it. Look at Apple. One of the most tight-lipped companies, ever, about their products. I have many friends that work at Apple, and honestly guys, they don't tell me jack! But yet rumors can always be found on the net, and most of them are spot on. You know why? Because the products EXIST. When you have to send off a certain product so that it will be photographed or whatever, because they're preparing the printing material and what not, that's how the rumor mongers find out about these things... With AmigaOS 5, well, there won't be any rumors as it's vaporware. I'd even go as far as saying that it's inside someone's demented head... As for Petro selling off $75k of inventory... I really like how the response was: "when I learned that...". How do you MISS something like that? Incompetence is not even close to the right word here.
gary_c: There's not reason at all. I was hoping as well nobody's hopes went up, but it seems apparent that many had...
Desler: Great points, well said. We should buy their (Amiga Inc) corpse out and get this mess over with.
Turrican: I agree with your list, except 3). Amiga Inc is moving forward into lunacy, not having anything to do with Amigas or AmigaOS, not in any real, tangible sense at least. PS. awesome game patrioti :)
cpfuture: Definitely not in our reality :)
Trezzer: Fully pardoned :)
fjudde: Interesting point. So Mr. Bill was forced more or less to answer the questions, else refusing to deal with someone from amiga.org would have been PR-suicide, of sorts.
Srbin: He gives a fsck about old ROMS because he's not yet done milking the cow (the Amiga community, me, you, yeah you the reader!)
Wayne: I mentioned the same issue to some of the people at AmiWest: let's have it for 2 days. And one more thought of mine was: to shake off this "dead feeling" that Amigans seem to have, why not invite Atari (ha!), C64/128 and pre, old Apple, TRS80, Spectrum, BBC, etc communities, so as to have a larger "fair" type event for the first day, or the first hours of each day, and then focus more the actual "meat" of the event on Amiga, since we, the Amigans, would be the instigators and organizers. I'm trying to say that if it was a fair like the ones I used to go back in the east coast, where there would be hundreds to thousands of people, it'd be more lively and perhaps we'd have even greater Amiga attendance (and of course try to get the rest Amigy-fied, muhahaha!). As for "Bill is aiming higher than this tiny hobbyist market", what would you call me if I told you that I aim to have a rocketship built in my back yard that can reach Alpha-Centauri (you know, the star system), powered only by my garbage? Perhaps "delusional" would be the first word that'd come to your mind. Or maybe "mad" would be the first? Also as to the "he was a marketeer before this" comment, I think he's shown very well that he still is to this day :( Finally about the "lawyer" stuff, let's be honest: if the guy was honest, he'd ignore his lawyers and he'd speak straight forth. Not the case.
Tomas: He (Mr. Bill) can expect these things if he's delusional. Wait, someone already pointed this out. From your second post: No one would. You're right. What made you change your tune further down? We're open minded, but we won't also bend over backwards and wait for the humping to begin. No thanks!
redrumloa: Well said. Too bad I wasn't aware of Anachronism Industries at the time :(
uncleted: Agreed. Allow licensing, and stimulate growth in the already dwindling Amiga world. But alas, no! Lawyers and their cronies want to make more cash...
snowman040: So it seems... How else can these guys make money? They obviously don't have any Amiga product, or had one for the past 7+ years now...
amije: I think he's an alien... oh wait, extreme capitalist, that's what their planet is called...
Fats: VERY interesting comment about Amiga Inc shooting themselves on the foot as they switched identities to get rid of (annoying or deserving pay promised) employees, and thus opening the door to Hyperion taking back their own work, for righteous or selfish reasons, I don't know. Excellent insight Fats. I truly wonder what's true...
amigarules2k: Right on brother! Yeah, I love how all these claims about working with the community and building things together, but then there's never any "showing the community what's going on behind the scenes". If that doesn't smell fishy, then I don't know what does... I'll give you my paycheck too, if he proves something is true about this OS5 and other mumbo-jumbo.
Jose: These are not even wishes. People, nerds, want to give them money for a product. We've not even gotten to what we WISH for in that product, because if you ask me, what I want (something beyond OS X), they can't even FANTASIZE in their full-of-bs marketing brains, that's how far ahead or wishful my nerdy thinking is.
JKD: Hahaha, I love it! "low flying time wrap"
recidivist: Indeed it's fux0red. I recently had to deal with such things, and it's unbelievable the amount of evil that's contained within.
Argo: ...and then vote thinking that your decision has any meaning, is that right Argo? Does "Argo" come from "argos" ? (the accent on the o)
platon42: No, haven't seen it, but surely it fits here squarely :)
Insanity: Yes, everyone should ponder that. Please also ponder that it's 2006 and the last Amiga or AmigaOS that came out was in the last millenium.
ne_one: Just like it's "too easy to be a naysayer", it's also much easier to be a gullible naive neophyte.
-D-: Exactly: LOL.
Tron2k2: "marketroid drivel", hahahha. It sounds like fraud, although I'm no expert. But certainly not normal. Unbelievable, if what you said is true, about shutting down Amiga.org's t-shirt thing at Cafepress. If it wasn't (mostly) for Amiga.org I and many others wouldn't be hanging around the Amiga world anymore...
-
:-D Does anyone know what the Friedans' said during the IRC?
Is there any record of the IRC chat with the Friedans'mentioned here on Amiga.org? Where can I find out
-
:-D Does anyone know what the Friedans' said during the IRC?
Is there any record of the IRC chat with the Friedans'mentioned here on Amiga.org? Where can I find out
-
This is quite simple in my view. From time to time i have checked up on Amiga inc. to see if they have finally been able to deliver anything. I have done so now for, oh, 10 years or so? :roll:
During all that time, the only true action that has taken place. And with action, i mean work that has produced anything tangible, or even anything at all - has been OS4. Like many i even bought the development SDK for intel X86, hoping that things would change. But it was a complete waste of money. Im still pissed about that. :madashell:
So, how did Amiga Inc become the bad guy? Because they have not delivered on any of their goals and promises. As a "potential user", i should not have to care about their legal issues. They either deliver, or they dont. Since they did not i put my money into a PC and a powermac. It's that simple.
As far as i'm concerned, the only product Amiga has that anyone can hold in their hand - is OS4. By denying that, and trying to push the idea of OS5 or OS6 :lol: , is not only to underline that Amiga inc. has been reduced to a fancy idea on paper -it is also discrediting to the makers of OS4, who sat down and got the work done! :pissed:
Look at the company profile for god's sake! The website looks like it's buildt in russia during the cold war! Does it make an old amiga fan feel at home? Does it give him flashbacks to the houres spent in front of his A500 or A1200 as a teenager? No. The sad part is that it would not require much to fix this. But it does require ACTION!
The first thing they should do, IMO, is to give what they have. They should also focus on their retro options, such as emulators - and make it easy for people to download older software directly from their website. They need revenue, i know that, but you dont get revenue unless you give revenume! That's how the game works.
Would it be easier for Amiga inc. to grow if the Amiga marked was growing? Ofourse! So the more copies of OS4 that ships, regardless of platform - will automatically strengthen the intellectual property value of the company.
Hell, sit down and check the copyright on all the older Amiga games. Most of them can be given away without any legal implications - and Amiga inc should be the one to do it.
While Bill would be excused on account of his tragic loss, that indeed would kneel any of us, i still feel that the company is a mess. You should set smaller goals. Expecting to get back to the glory days in only a couple of years is not realistic. Drop the ideas of easy money, and focus on making a living.