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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Software News => Topic started by: Gofromiel on February 07, 2005, 04:15:41 AM

Title: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: Gofromiel on February 07, 2005, 04:15:41 AM
Feelin is an object-oriented system (OOS) for the AmigaOS. It provides two things : A small shared library, fast and powerful (the object-system's core), offering everything needed to create a complete object-oriented environnement ; And an extensible system to create and maintain GUIs. Although Feelin comes with a lot of GUI oriented classes, Feelin is not limited to that, and can be used for a variety of projects.

This is a small update. I made it because I won't be able to work on Feelin for a moment, due to a lot of changes in my life. I decided to made Feelin open-source because I received a lot of mails asking for a port of Feelin to AROS/MOS/OS4. With the source available this is now fully possible.

(http://ryanthusar.free.fr/gofromiel/feelin/images/screens/07.png)(http://ryanthusar.free.fr/gofromiel/feelin/images/people/20050120.png)

IDCMP flag are now deprecated, Feelin now comes  with  its  very  own event system (http://www.gofromiel.com/feelin/feelin_dev.html#FDEV_APTH_EVEN).

Drag'n'Drop has been partially rewritten, especially the graphic part.

Miscallaneous small imporvements.

Feelin in now open-source !

Give Feelin a try !! (http://www.gofromiel.com/feelin/)
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: platon42 on February 07, 2005, 07:39:54 AM
... and it is still a design-clone of MUI without giving credits (not a single word, while even cloning the defines and macro names!). No kudos to you for that.
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: pixie on February 07, 2005, 11:11:44 AM
Quote
not a single word, while even cloning the defines and macro names

Zune does it I guess, but in real world there's much more cases of it and no one brags about it... other had invented the grammar you are using right now... I bet if you had better things to do you wouldn't be complaining at all... ;-)
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: gnarly on February 07, 2005, 11:49:56 AM
Tell me, can Feelin be tailored to look like the rest of AmigaOS, or does it have to have that "EGS" look about it?
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: gnarly on February 07, 2005, 11:51:06 AM
Quote
Zune does it I guess
Aye but Zune is a MUI clone and says so from the outset.
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: Gofromiel on February 07, 2005, 01:04:28 PM
I'm getting really tired of "your MUI clone". MUI is just a BOOPSI extension after all ! I don't need to credit MUI ! I made Feelin all by myself over 3 years !

Feelin have it's own object-oriented system with dynamic IDs, its own memory management, its own event system, support XML applications, its own debug system and soooooo much more !! Feelin stand alone completely !

I guess people complaining about "your MUI clone" look at the screenshots and stop there. Are they real developer or just "old-time-complainers".

Anyway, what is exactly the recent evolution of MUI ?? MUI did not introduced object programming to the amiga, nor to the world ! Its only a GUI based extension. Feelin is more what BOOPSI and Reaction should have been.

Now that Feelin is open-source, you'll be able to look what's "inside" and see the differences ! I've received so many lovely mails, this snapshot and the open-sourcing is a way to thank people !

Thanks !
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: smithy on February 07, 2005, 02:07:04 PM
Feelin's great!!!  I like it a lot.  We are planning to make a version of Paihia that uses it.  Now that's it open source, we can do this for MOS, OS4 and AROS too :-)

Thanks a lot Gofromiel and keep up the good work!
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: ikir on February 07, 2005, 02:52:37 PM
@smithy
Paihia(http://www.vocinelweb.it/faccine/love/06.gif)

@Gofromiel
Keep up the good work! Looking forward for the OS4 version.
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: DeQuevedo on February 07, 2005, 04:17:04 PM
Hi All

I think its amazing.

Would be great is a MUI api wrapper could be done and which redirets the MUi calls to Feelin calls, and run all MUI soft in Feeling.

I think it would be faster and better.

BTW where to get those drives icons I can see on the screenshots?

Regards
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: Argo on February 07, 2005, 07:26:28 PM
Quote
BTW where to get those drives icons I can see on the screenshots?



http://www.gofromiel.com/feelin/download.html
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: Argo on February 07, 2005, 07:27:59 PM
Did anyone read the website, completely?
Just wondering...
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: DeQuevedo on February 07, 2005, 08:00:51 PM
Thx Argo.

I was refering to the disk icons in workbench no the Feelin logo icons were in the package you linked.

Thx anyway dude
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: cecilia on February 07, 2005, 08:19:29 PM
don't you love it when people who haven't done a lick of work whine and complain.:admonish:
shessh!
anyway, I'll have a look and see if this will work on my emulation and maybe even my peg.

(hopefully, it won't blow anything up)  :lol:
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: Gofromiel on February 07, 2005, 08:47:15 PM
Thanks for your comments :-)

Conserning the Icons, I made them myself, but I didn't think someone could like them :-P
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: reflect on February 07, 2005, 09:38:50 PM
I read the readme but I couldn't find system requirements anywhere? What are they?
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: Gofromiel on February 07, 2005, 10:39:43 PM
Requirements : AmigaOS 3.0, 68020 :-)
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: Twin on February 08, 2005, 03:15:48 AM
Quote
Did anyone read the website, completely?
Just wondering...


I did...

My eyes! My eyes! :-D  :-?  :-o
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: Kaminari on February 08, 2005, 05:31:59 AM
Hey Chris,

As the great author of Poseidon and the Deli14Bit genie, you should know better. I don't remember anyone complaining about you borrowing the 14-bit resolution concept from Christian Buchner ;-)

Good job, Olivier. Keep up the good work and forget about the grumpy devs :lol:
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: platon42 on February 08, 2005, 07:52:46 AM
@Kaminari:

> As the great author of Poseidon and the Deli14Bit genie, you should know
> better. I don't remember anyone complaining about you borrowing the 14-bit
> resolution concept from Christian Buchner

The difference is: I used his source, but gave credit in the about message
and in the manual. And I both know Buchner and Kunath personally and they
appreciate my work.

@Gofromiel:

> MUI is just a BOOPSI extension after all! I don't need to credit MUI! I
> made Feelin all by myself over 3 years !

Well, after copying all the design, copying large parts of the programmers
manual, copying parts of the examples, the API, the macros and so on, not
giving credit and whining that this is all your work is IMHO a bit
pathetic.

When will people learn that designing a software architecture is just a lot
more than reimplementing one existing design?

> Feelin have it's own object-oriented system with dynamic IDs,

There is nothing innovative in  that.  The  difference  is,  that  you  use
strings  for  referencing,  whereas MUI uses predefined static ID. You will
argue, that these IDs could clash, but I disagree --  there  is  a  defined
"name-space" for each class (public and private ones).

> its own memory management,

You mean  that  never-seen  FreeVecPooled()  as  in  the  Amiga  developers
examples?  Even  Poseidon  uses that kind of memory management, but doesn't
brag itself with it.

> its own event system,

You mean that clone for MUIM_HandleEvent? Did I miss something?

> support XML applications,

While I do think that this is a good idea for static GUIs, I can't see  the
benefit for dynamic GUIs with variable number of items.

> its own debug system and soooooo much more !! Feelin stand
> alone completely !

So? If it stands alone completely, why does it need to use the MUI API  and
classes and OO structure and so on (see above)?

> I guess people complaining about "your MUI clone" look at the screenshots
> and stop there. Are they real developer or just "old-time-complainers".

Well, I do consider myself a real developer. I'm not complaining about  the
work   you've   done.  I  do  appreciate  it!  I'm  complaining  about  the
work/art/design/manuals you did not do, but copied and not giving credits.

> Anyway, what is exactly the recent evolution of MUI ?? MUI did not
> introduced object programming to the amiga, nor to the world!

Where did I claim this?

> Its only a GUI based extension.

While I do respect your  opinion  on  MUI,  I  have  the  feelin'  (no  pun
intended)  that  you  disrespect the work of others. IMHO MUI is a lot more
than just a GUI bases extension.

> Feelin is more what BOOPSI and Reaction should have been.

Possibly. But IMO not by design, but by implementation.

Once again: I'm not discrediting your work/implementation as such, I'm just
a  bit upset that you copied so much stuff from MUI, but on the other side,
claim that you've done all of the stuff yourself and even go so far and say
(paraphrasing) "MUI is crap".

Then again, there is a saying  that  immitation  is  the  deepest  kind  of
admiration.
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: Aledt on February 08, 2005, 07:23:04 PM
You say its designed for OOP, does it come with classes for using with C++? , thats one of the things that bugs me about MUI is the lack of them.
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: Gofromiel on February 08, 2005, 08:03:57 PM
@platon42: Another exemple of complete ignorence !!

Did you read the documentation ? Did you look at the source code ? Did I ask anyone for money for using my work ?

Your argumentation is so overdone (and underdocumented) that its nearly ridiculous.

Quote
Well, after copying all the design


MUI is using BOOPSI design, isn't it ?

Quote
the API


Where exactly ?? Some calls are similar to BOOPSI, but did MUI create the concept of API ?

Quote
the macros


Macro concept is not perticuliar to MUI. Do you want me to name a macro that access to the width of an object "give_me_the_width_bitch" ? If you add really looked at the macros you should have seen that they are not named the same, and don't need any attribute, because FC_Area is opaque... for example.

Quote
You mean that never-seen FreeVecPooled()


Are you serious, you didn't even had a look at the documentation or what ? Try to FreeVecPool(12,32) then try to F_Dispose(32). Then of how stupid you were.

Quote
You mean that clone for MUIM_HandleEvent? Did I miss something?


DOCUMENTATION AGAIN !!!! Feelin doesn't use IDCMP flags, but ITS OWN EVENT SYSTEM (http://www.gofromiel.com/feelin/feelin_dev.html#FDEV_APTH_EVEN) !!

Quote
So? If it stands alone completely, why does it need to use the MUI API and so on


Are you drunk or something ?? What is MUI without BOOPSI ??

--- end of pissed mode ---

I don't disrespect MUI, it did a loooot for the Amiga, but I'm fed up of people talking soooo smartly without knowing anything. THE SOURCE OF FEELIN IS AVAILABLE, CHECK IT OUT !!!

--- end of end pissed mode ---

English is not my native language. Today is the first day of my life in London. Maybe I'm exausted, but I'd work so hard on Feelin that sometime I experience difficulties with deprecation (if it's the correct word :-))

Anyway, enjoy, walking peacefully among the things !!
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: blubbe on February 09, 2005, 12:04:14 AM
Man, you are truly delusional.
Calm down an look at your work.
Then look at MUI.
Lookat your documentation,
look at MUI documentation.

Now tell me you havent made a MUI-clone,
called it your own invention, copy-pasted
the documentation, only replaced occourences of "MUI" with "Feelin", renamed methods with "F_" instead of "MUI_", And YES, removed BOOPSI
and replaced it with something similar.  

And DONT tell me to read the documantation,
or that I just look at the pictures, or that I am drunk, or anything like that. I have {bleep}ing
read your documentation, looked at your examples (also from MUI btw), and coded a bunch of stuff with MUI.

And NO, I dont have a problem with you reimplementing MUI.
I have a problem with you copy-pasting the documentation (documentation,autodocs)
withiout a single notice
pretending you did it yourself.
I have a problem with you calling MUI crap.

Also, I dont see what the hell Feelin actually
improves on compared to MUI, besides a few
details that doesn really make that much difference in
the end anyway. maybe if it was actually compatible with MUI.
And the argument that you have just made it look like MUI to make MUI-programmers more easily
start programming for it is also bull. It soesnt make it easier to code for, but instead the programmer thinks he is coding MUI, but it doesnt work because of many small incompatibilities,
the biggest beeing the basic way methods are called. If you want to create something revolutionary then give it its own API instead.
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: AmiXDel on February 09, 2005, 06:17:43 AM
Gofromiel: This is an interesting piece of work, and you have an interesting way with words, kinda reminds me of:

http://www.realultimatepower.net/

for some reason.

Anyhow, ignore those other guys, you're doing a VERY good thing, and I'm most interested to see where it goes!

Good luck!
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: Argo on February 09, 2005, 08:10:13 AM
Okay, guys we get the idea. Have you thought of contacting the author of MUI? He would have the only true reason to complain and/or take action.
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: Gofromiel on February 09, 2005, 02:03:25 PM
Does AMD copy Intel ?? Or are they just compitible, so people can use AMD processors ? Feelin is compatible with MUI in the way that programming them is similar. Being a new comer, I can't ask people to learn a different thing AGAIN. That's why Feelin is similar, just to be simple for people search better...
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: bloodline on February 09, 2005, 03:20:31 PM
Welcome to London Gofromiel :-)
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: platon42 on February 09, 2005, 07:10:44 PM
Well, with your attitude, there is no sense in having a reasonable discussion. If yelling, name calling, and taking nude photographs is everything you can do, just go ahead with it. Go play with tjaoz.
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: cecilia on February 09, 2005, 07:50:15 PM
Quote
nude photographs
WHAT!!!, how did i miss this????   :-o
Title: Re: New snapshot of Feelin
Post by: Gofromiel on February 09, 2005, 09:29:52 PM
@bloodline:
Quote
Welcome to London Gofromiel
Thank you !! 2 days now, still surviving :-)

@platon42:
Quote
If yelling, name calling, and taking nude photographs is everything you can do, just go ahead with it. Go play with tjaoz.


Is this the reason of your angryness ? :-) I think we will be enemies for life :-) Just kidding, think what you want I don't care, I have a fantastic aura :-) Cheeeeeers !!!

PS: I do videos too !!! (http://www.gofromiel.com/videos.php)