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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Software News => Topic started by: Lu0ma on May 26, 2004, 06:08:29 PM
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A new original Amiga title, d3GNOP is out!
Features:
- Stunning 3d gfx (Warp3D/MiniGL)
- 16bit stereo sound with speech (AHI)
- Versions for 68k and WarpOS
- 1 or 2 player game
- 10 different bonuses (multiple balls, obstacles etc.)
- 100 levels
- 10 different 3d backgrounds
- Automatic savegame
- Selectable detail of gfx
- Joystick support
- And it's freeware!
Screenshots and download:
http://www.nic.fi/~varsa/d3gnop/index.html
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Um... catchy name. ;-)
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I just love their games! I just wish the Morph team would release the 3D drivers for Radeon cards!
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Hmmm...#80000003
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very innovative :-)
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cant innit joystick is what i get ...
get that on alybox etc aswell , had this prob for a while, anyone know why?.
ps:i havent tried the -nojoy command yet as i was told right before i went to bed...
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Ooo... Works with MOS + Voodoo here. ;) (I'm glad I switched. :P)
What version is the lucyplay.library included with this game? Is it 68000? Just wondering if I'd be better off using any of the other versions of lucyplay?
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Um... catchy name.
I think Pong 3D Wouldn't have have quite the same effect :-P
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Works with MOS + Voodoo here. ;) (I'm glad I switched. :P)
Using MiniGL on anything but official AmigaOS violates the MiniGL license.
Not that anyone would care about such details, though.
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> Works with MOS + Voodoo here. ;) (I'm glad I
> switched. :P)
^^ Meant I'm glad I switched from a Radeon to a Voodoo (for the moment). :P
@Rogue:
> Using MiniGL on anything but official AmigaOS
> violates the MiniGL license.
Interesting... Is MiniGL a statically linked library? I wonder if the license is included in the readme file? The author also just compiled for 68k and WOS, not MOS native so I guess the author isn't in violation of the license. But if the license hasn't been brought to the user's attention then how are they supposed to know... :P
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yet another example of how everyone gives a {bleep} as long as it suits them self .... ohwell
have fun
and thanx to the author for giving us this AWESOME amiga game!!!
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@rouge:
lol :-D
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Using MiniGL on anything but official AmigaOS violates the MiniGL license
What is MiniGL license?
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I like it!
A couple of questions on Warp3D (I have a CV3D -virge- ):
-I get false colours :-( (I read that is a virge limitation on th 16/24 bit screenmodes). Is this only on CV3D?
-I get a "No ZBuffer: Memory shortage" error message when I open a full screen mode. Checking the free mem left, is about 37 MB. :-?
________
AUSTRALIA (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_Australia)
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cass:the memory problem (zbuffer) is gfx memory! and not fast memory , so free up some gfx memory by turning off or down yer wb settings/patterns etc.
luckily i have a mediator with 16mb gfx mem so it wont dry out as fast as a cvision or a bvision BUT! there still is some issues though but not with this game :)
anyway i like trhe game alot and im on level 19 atm, nice feature that it saves level 1 by one ..
cheers
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@Lempkee
I suspected that, but I also was thinking about the 1MB reserved by the CGX for textures and 3D stuff. I use P96, and all the 4 MBs are available for any use.
By the way welcome back, nice to see that your miggy is OK now :-) (what a relief, eh?).
________
Mac games (http://macgame.org)
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Is MiniGL a statically linked library?
Yes.
I wonder if the license is included in the readme file?
Yes. The readme is included in the archive that can be downloaded from our web site.
The author also just compiled for 68k and WOS, not MOS native so I guess the author isn't in violation of the license. But if the license hasn't been brought to the user's attention then how are they supposed to know... :P
I didn't want to imply that the author is in violation. But the licence of MiniGL prohibits the usage of the library on non-AmigaOS systems. This includes all MiniGL games (including Heretic II and Quake II).
look here for the MiniGL License (http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/_amiga/news_000416.html).
@tokai:
@rouge:
The name's "Rogue".
lol
That wasn't meant to be funny. I did 90% of the work on MiniGL.
@cass:
I get false colours
The ViRGE cannot render to a 16 bit screen. Anything using 16 bit will most likely fail to work on the ViRGE. It's not a big loss really since the ViRGE's hardware "acceleration" is mostly slower than a software renderer. There is a software renderer for Warp3D, done by Stéphane Guillard.
I get a "No ZBuffer: Memory shortage" error
The ViRGE aka CV64/3D only has 3.5 (in Z2 mode) or 4 MB (in Z3 mode) local video ram. A fullscreen mode plus workbench plus Z buffer is likely to fill this up. The ViRGE is really mostly unusable, if you can I would recommend getting a Prometheus or Mediator with a Voodoo 3.
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sorry, i interpreted your comment as some satire, because you added this line:
> Not that anyone would care about such details, > though.
my fault.
regards,
tokai
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MiniGL may only be compiled for/ incorporated in code running on AmigaOS.
As I see MiniGL code can't be incorporated in MorphOS binary. But there is nothing wrong if I run AmigaOS executable in MorphOS and it contains MiniGL code.
However, it doesnt work here due to lack of Radeon 3D drivers.
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@itix.
But there is nothing wrong if I run AmigaOS executable in MorphOS and it contains MiniGL code.
You can't use it on MorphOS. You can't use it on WinUAE or Amithlon or anything else but genuine AmigaOS.
I'm sure that others would like to interpret the license more liberal.
Not that I would be going after you. I just thought I'd mention it.
@tokai:
sorry, i interpreted your comment as some satire
It was meant to be cynical because usually no one cares about such "details".
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"You can't use it on MorphOS."
I think you mean, the licence says you can't. Whether he can legally or not is another matter entirely, and thankfully "EULA" writers do not make the law.
"It was meant to be cynical because usually no one cares about such "details"."
Including the courts;) (At least, I'm not aware of courts enforcing so called "agreements" that were only claimed by one party, and also, I believe that emulation has been upheld as legal - eg, when Sony tried to stop a Playstation emulator).
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Genuine AmigaOS died with C=.
@rogue:
and anyway:
"MiniGL may only be compiled for/ incorporated in code running on AmigaOS"
does only say that the code has to run on AmigaOS. It does not say in any word that it is not allowed to let it run on other systems which are able to run/emulate code which works on genuine AmigaOS (that includes UAE/Amithlon (they are using genuine AmigaOS actually) and MorphOS).
Btw, "MiniGL" was first used by 3dfx MiniGL ( http://www.3dcenter.de/downloads/3dfx-minigl.php (http://www.3dcenter.de/downloads/3dfx-minigl.php) ). I assume that's only a coincidence, or?
regards,
tokai
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Quoting the license code:
MiniGL may only be compiled for/ incorporated in code running on AmigaOS.
I understand that as restriction for coders, that they may only compile their programs/games for AmigaOS.
However, in my opinion it doesn't say, that end users may not use the compiled binary on other systems able to run AmigaOS executables (MorphOS, UAE, Amithlon etc...)
EDIT:
And I sure can't see any mention of such restrictions on my Heretic II box...
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Hmm...
Oh well the MiniGL license wasn't included n the games' archive (d3gnoP)... No big deal, I can simply erase it and not play it again. I'm just wondering if I should box my Hyperion software and send it off for a refund? ;)
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You can't use it on WinUAE or Amithlon or
anything else but genuine AmigaOS.
Oh, but WinUAE and Amithlon run genuine AmigaOS!
Maybe you should have reworded it like "you are only allowed to run it on genuine Amiga hardware".
Sorry for being "your enemy" here, but please don't talk yourself into a bag when battling over your legal rights. :-(
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Whether he can legally or not is another matter entirely, and thankfully "EULA" writers do not make the law.
It's my code. If you think it legally unenforcible, at least show some respect for that.
Oh, sorry, I know, I'm red and bad. I shall not be respected because I am evil.
Sigh.
@tokai:
I assume that's only a coincidence, or?
No, not really. When we started Heretic II we felt that StormMesa would be too slow (more so because it used the bad idea of indirect Warp3D). The original Quakes used MiniGL. The idea was to have a GL that is so small that it isn't encumbered by the functionality that the Quake 2 engine doesn't use. MiniGL was the result.
@jupp3:
And I sure can't see any mention of such restrictions on my Heretic II box...
The H2 EULA says something like "grants you a license to run on AmigaOS" (only with more words). But then, EULA's aren't enforcible through the courts anyway.
@sdesros:
I'm just wondering if I should box my Hyperion software and send it off for a refund? ;)
On what basis? Our games are written for AmigaOS. It clearly states so on the box.
Go on using MiniGL on MorphOS, I don't mind. I just wanted to bring this minor fact to attention for the next round of Hyperion badmouthing. Maybe you'll find that certain things would be missing if it wheren't for us.
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There must be several implementations of miniGL for several platforms. Here is one for PalmOS: HERE (http://www.dsbox.com/minigl.html)
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@rogue:
Go on using MiniGL on MorphOS, I don't mind.
Very good.
Also let me quote your former boss:
(hermans in feb 2001)
My main worry about MorphOS in the past was the fact that our stuff wouldn't run on it and that this would further shrink the already tiny Amiga market.
[...]
Now you seem to have a working WarpOS emulator which means our games will run on MorphOS.
Case closed I would say. As long as your emulator works and I have no reason to doubt that at this point, users can buy and enjoy our product without us having to spend extra time on development.
or
Good to hear that there now is a WarpOS emulator so people wanting to play Hyperion games are not left in the cold.
see here: http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=0982207755&category=news&109 (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=0982207755&category=news&109)
rogue, I'm looking really forward to your new game releases for Classic, OS4 and MorphOS. Thanks for your support in this market even in this hard times. Ty!
regards,
tokai
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On what basis? Our games are written for AmigaOS. It clearly states so on the box.
Its a good thing you don't use or run mac-on-linux. Perhaps run Windows on a "whitebox" PC not hardware approved by Microsoft. Or PCtask on Amiga. Or any game emulator for that matter. That would be just plain WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNG!!!! ;-)
Go on using MiniGL on MorphOS, I don't mind. I just wanted to bring this minor fact to attention for the next round of Hyperion badmouthing.
Instead of badmouthing morphOS and Pegasos all the time, you guys should be developing for MorphOS and Pegasos, the same way Microsoft develops for the Mac platform. Wouldn't that make sense?
Maybe you'll find that certain things would be missing if it wheren't for us.
No respect for the original AmigaOS coders?
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You can't use it on MorphOS. You can't use it on WinUAE or Amithlon or anything else but genuine AmigaOS.
Excuse me but if you are running AmigaOS 3.9 legally on your machine you are running genuine AmigaOS and MiniGL license restrictions do not apply.
Btw. you can use FindResident("MorphOS") to detect and reject MorphOS.
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"It's my code. If you think it legally unenforcible, at least show some respect for that."
People use my code, but just because of that doesn't mean that they are obliged, either legally or ethically, to abide by whatever conditions I like.
I'm not sure where respect comes into it.. you're not showing any respect for their personal circumstances and hardware setup, either.
"Oh, sorry, I know, I'm red and bad. I shall not be respected because I am evil."
? Not sure what you mean here.
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>You can't use it on MorphOS. You can't use it on
>WinUAE or Amithlon or anything else but genuine
>AmigaOS.
>I'm sure that others would like to interpret the
>license more liberal.
1) Are you saying that a user using a MiniGL
program (such as Heretic2) agrees to the license
agreement of the MiniGL by starting and running
this program?
2) Are you saying that a user running a program
that falls under MiniGL license vilolates this
license by running it on another OS than AmigaOS
such as MorphOS?
3) Are your answers provided here but not limited
to the questions above the official position of
Hyperion Entertainment?
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Instead of badmouthing morphOS and Pegasos all the time
You never cease to amaze me.
Where did I badmouth Pegasos or MorphOS please? I just stated my (very general) view about the usage of code that was mostly written by myself. I specifically didn't say "Pegasos is bad" nor "MorphOS is bad" - if you can point me to such a comment then please go ahead and do so - in this or any other thread, for the matter.
No respect for the original AmigaOS coders?
Pardon me if I don't see the connection here?
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Btw. you can use FindResident("MorphOS") to detect and reject MorphOS.
I never did, nor do I plan to do so, use any lockout mechanism. I am not really in the ScreenSemaphore mood, you know.
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People use my code, but just because of that doesn't mean that they are obliged, either legally or ethically, to abide by whatever conditions I like.
I'm not sure I understand - this could certainly be used as an excuse to condone piracy. Note I am not saying you do so, but this is how this comes across.
I'm not sure where respect comes into it.. you're not showing any respect for their personal circumstances and hardware setup, either.
I don't understand what hardware setup has to do with it. Or is an x86 user going to complain that he cannot run PPC software?
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Are you saying that a user using a MiniGL
program (such as Heretic2) agrees to the license
agreement of the MiniGL by starting and running
this program?
Heretic II comes with its own license stating that the license is valid for an Amiga computer. I think there had been people here complaining that it is illegal to run MacOS on MOL.
Are you saying that a user running a program
that falls under MiniGL license vilolates this
license by running it on another OS than AmigaOS
such as MorphOS?
I'm no lawyer (although it sometimes seems the web is full of them) but from my feeling, yes. I already stated that I don't mind, though.
Are your answers provided here but not limited
to the questions above the official position of
Hyperion Entertainment?
Nice try.
The answer is no. I am not a spokesperson of Hyperion Entertainment, nor does Hyperion Entertainment provide such statements on public forums. I think I specifically said "I" in the postings above. They reflect my own opinion. If this where a normal forum thread, it would show my signature below my posting which clearly states that all opinions expressed in my comments are my own and do not represent the opinion of Hyperion Entertainment.
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@Rogue:
Go on using MiniGL on MorphOS, I don't mind.
Thank you. I would respect your wishes by not using MiniGL in a "MOS Native" binary.
I just wanted to bring this minor fact to attention for the next round of Hyperion badmouthing.Maybe you'll find that certain things would be missing if it wheren't for us.
I don't believe that I've ever badmouthed Hyperion. If I have, then I'm sorry.
I just get quite testy when I am told what platform I am allowed to use applications I've spent money towards (considering that I don't distribute them, I don't disassemble and reuse code/images found therein. I also don't expect any technical support from Hyperion.)
My classic amigas were definatly not in shape to run Quake II, Freespace and Heretic II. If it weren't for my current platform, I would not have bought the software, which in turn would mean that I would not have supported my local dealer and not supported Hyperion in return.
I must confess that I might not have waited for OS4 (congratulations on the pre-release by the way).
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>Heretic II comes with its own license stating
>that the license is valid for an Amiga computer.
This topic is also about d3GNOP. So do you think
that the user agrees to the MiniGL license by
running that program?
>The answer is no.
That's a bit strange. As the link you gave points
to the official Hyperion Entertainment homepage
where you get the impression that MiniGL is a
Hyperion Entertainment product.
1)Are you now saying that MiniGL does not belong
to Hyperion Entertainemt?
2)If not, why are you making statements about the
MiniGL license which might contradict the
official Hyperion position regarding this matter?
3)You're part of Hyperion so why would you have
a different opinion about that topic than
Hyperion?
And if so, aren't you just saying that your
statments above are null and void as it wasn't
the position of Hyperion?
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"I'm not sure I understand - this could certainly be used as an excuse to condone piracy. Note I am not saying you do so, but this is how this comes across."
Except piracy is illegal. That is something which is dictated *by law*. However, emulating or otherwise running under different OS is not illegal.
"I don't understand what hardware setup has to do with it. Or is an x86 user going to complain that he cannot run PPC software?"
If there was a way he could run PPC software (eg, emulation), but you were saying that he's breaking the law or acting immorally, I'd completely disagree with you on both counts.
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"I didn't want to imply that the author is in violation. But the licence of MiniGL prohibits the usage of the library on non-AmigaOS systems. This includes all MiniGL games (including Heretic II and Quake II)."
I had a read of your link, and it says:
"MiniGL may only be compiled for/ incorporated in code running on AmigaOS. All other rights reserved. This applies only to MiniGL, not to your application, i.e. It's OK to port the application to another platform using OpenGL."
So where on earth does it say that end users can only use this library on Amiga systems - nevermind that such a restriction has no legal weight, it doesn't even say it in the licence.
What the licence says as far as I can tell is that someone can not use it to compile something for a platform other than AmigaOS (and then distribute it). This is legally enforceable, because to distribute a program based on this library, you're distributing some of the code, and so must abide by any terms.
But if the program is compiled for AmigaOS, but someone emulates that on another OS, that's touch luck (unless Hyperion are able to succeed in court better than Sony and Microsoft?)
Now, let's RTFA:
http://www.nic.fi/~varsa/d3gnop/index.html
"Requirements
"Amiga with at least 68040 (PPC is supported via WarpOS) or compatible"
Suggests it's been compiled for AmigaOS. And to be sure, "The game should also run on other compatible platforms/under emulation with right setup (MorphOS, WinUAE)." Note, *emulation*.
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1)Are you now saying that MiniGL does not belong to Hyperion Entertainemt?
Care to explain how you get that idea?
2)If not, why are you making statements about the MiniGL license which might contradict the
official Hyperion position regarding this matter?
How can you know that I contradict the official Hyperion position? AFAIK no official Hyperion statement has been given.
You're part of Hyperion so why would you have
a different opinion about that topic than
Hyperion?
Some Hyperion members vote left-wing, others vote right-wing, other vote liberal. What does that say about the official political stance of Hyperion?
You guessed it. Nothing. So don't try to put word in my or Hyperion's mouth.
Do all Americans agree on the war in Iraq? I don't think so, in spite of their government. Do all germans condem the war? I don't think so, in spite of their government. So where does your statement lead?
And if so, aren't you just saying that your
statments above are null and void as it wasn't
the position of Hyperion?
No, because I explicitly make them as my personal opinion. If a US citicen says that the war in Iraq was wrong, does that make him a non-American because he has an opinion that differs from his government? I don't think so. Does that make his statements null and void? I don't think so either.
That is all I am going to say about it. Your blatant attempts to trick me into some official statement on Hyperion's behalf are quite obvious, although quite clumsy.
Again, I speak on my own behalf, not on behalf of Hyperion. Believe it or not my opinion on some subjects is allowed to differ from the official Hyperion position.
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Note, *emulation*.[/quite]
So, is MacOS emulation legal?
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I never did, nor do I plan to do so, use any lockout mechanism. I am not really in the ScreenSemaphore mood, you know.
They both reach the same result anyhoo.
As the saying goes.. "Vote with your pocketbook."
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>Again, I speak on my own behalf, not on behalf
>of Hyperion.
I'm not asking you if you speak on behalf of
Hyperion but if your opinion differs from the
official one of Hyperion.
If it did, your statement is null and void. If
not, why not just say that you have the same
opinion? Of what are you afraid of?
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Note, *emulation*.
So, is MacOS emulation legal?
Well, that's completely different matter.
afaik, MacOS has license, that grants permission to run it only on Macintosh hardware.
Minigl license permits developers to compile only for AmigaOS, but no matter how I look at the license text, it doesn't seem to forbid running resulting code on other operating systems...
(Of course developer could make his own license)
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"So, is MacOS emulation legal?"
As far as I know, emulation is legal. Do you know of any court that has declared otherwise?
And as Jupp3 says, even if EULAs were legally valid, the MiniGL licence does not forbid emulation.
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Hi Rogue
Mr Hans J. Frieden, Senior Developer ;-)
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Go on using MiniGL on MorphOS, I don't mind. I just wanted to bring this minor fact to attention for the next round of Hyperion badmouthing. Maybe you'll find that certain things would be missing if it wheren't for us.
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I think perhaps you, or perhaps Hyperion, have to make up your mind if you like, or if you dislike, that MiniGL software can be used, or not be used, on any system that can run such software.
Also the link you gave above leads to Nowhere land (http://www.hyperion-software.com/downloads/minigl-r1.lha). :-o
And to you also... looking forward to fiddle around with OS 4 and ExecSG... :-)
Gunne G. Steen