Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Software News => Topic started by: DJS on March 27, 2004, 02:10:03 PM
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Elbox Computer is happy to announce availability of the new eFlasher program for the eFlash 4000 Zorro III card.
Version 1.4 of the eFlasher program and version 1.0 of the eFlashConfig script have been released today for all registered users of the eFlash 4000 cards.
The eFlasher program is the tool developed for the eFlash 4000 Zorro III cards. It helps to manage FlashROM memory contents of the eFlash 4000 card. It installs AmigaOS ROM Updates and other modules, which can be started from the eFlash 4000 memory during the Amiga boot process.
The eFlasher program features:
• supports the BoingBag-1 and BoingBag-2 AmigaOS ROM Updates,
• works with any resident modules,
• supports multiple modules in one file,
• AmigaOS updates done during the Amiga boot process are detected by the Setpatch automatically.
eFlashConfig is an easy to use script to enable managing contents of memory in FlashROM of the eFlash 4000.
About the eFlash 4000 card:
eFlash 4000 is an autobooting Zorro III card with extremely fast 32-bit design, fitted with 8Mb of FlashROM memory.
The on-board FlashROM allows storage of programs, which are run at the computer's boot-up process. Every resident-capable programs, libraries, devices, and AmigaOS ROM Updates can be stored in the FlashROM memory of the eFlash 4000 card and executed without reboots on a cold Amiga start. This dramatically reduces the boot time of classic Amigas.
The on-board FlashROM allows storage of programs, which are run at the computer's boot-up process. Every resident-capable programs, libraries, devices, and AmigaOS ROM Updates can be stored in the FlashROM memory of the eFlash 4000 card and executed without reboots on a cold Amiga start. This dramatically reduces the boot time of classic Amigas.
The eFlash 4000 card can also initialise PCI cards installed in Mediator-equipped A3000 and A4000 computers before the AmigaOS system starts. The computer could be booted from mass storage devices connected through various PCI controllers, e.g. Spider Hi-Speed USB 2.0 cards and Ultra-ATA/133 PCI controllers, when drivers are available.
Users of the AmigaOS4.x operating system will have an additional benefit: the eFlash 4000 card will give them a possibility of definite shortening of the system's start time by executing the AmigaOS code from the FlashROM memory.
Thanks to the extremely fast design and the linear memory addressing, the eFlash 4000 card can be also used as a very fast non-volatile memory for storing the data, whose reading is time critical. FlashROM memory installed on the eFlash 4000 card allows also direct execution of programs stored in this memory without the necessity of copying programs code to the system Fast memory.
The FlashROM memory installed in the eFlash 4000 Zorro III card is directly available in the Zorro III Amiga memory space. This FlashROM memory can be read at the full speed of the 32-bit Zorro III bus.
The access time to the FlashROM memory of the eFlash 4000 Zorro III card is over ten times faster than the access time to FlashROM of the Flash Zorro II cards. It is not only because Zorro III protocol is much faster than offered by Zorro II. It is also because the FlashROM of the eFlash 4000 card is directly readable in one megabyte of linear memory space with the 32-bit datapatch, while in Flash Zorro II cards the FlashROM is readable through sixteen kilobytes memory window with the 8-bit datapatch.
If your Amiga is equipped with Zorro III bus, the eFlash 4000 card (http://www.buy.elbox.com/cgibin/shop?info=505EF41) is the best FLASH solution for you!
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Soooo, how fast is it? Really...
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Sorry, I can't resist some trolling...
> The eFlasher program features:
> · supports the BoingBag-1 and BoingBag-2 AmigaOS ROM Updates,
Algor/Romulus supports this since nearly one year -- also updating the
exec.library, which is a bit tricky! Can anyone confirm eFlash supports
this?
> · works with any resident modules,
Same for Algor/Romulus. Isn't that what it's supposed to do? No support for
BlizKick modules, eh? Pity.
> · supports multiple modules in one file,
Same for Algor/Romulus...
> The computer could be booted from mass storage devices connected through
> various PCI controllers, e.g. Spider Hi-Speed USB 2.0 cards and
> Ultra-ATA/133 PCI controllers, when drivers are available.
"When drivers are available"? So this doesn't work yet? Booting from USB
works for Algor since a year now.
> Thanks to the extremely fast design and the linear memory addressing,
Uuuuuuh ;)
> the
> eFlash 4000 card can be also used as a very fast non-volatile memory for
> storing the data, whose reading is time critical. FlashROM memory installed
> on the eFlash 4000 card allows also direct execution of programs stored in
> this memory without the necessity of copying programs code to the system
> Fast memory.
Nice idea, but a waste of valuable flash rom memory and... is there any
software provided to actually *use* this feature?
> eFlashConfig is an easy to use script to enable managing contents of
> memory in FlashROM of the eFlash 4000.
Sounds not very user friendly to me. Compare this to a fully fledged MUI
driver flashing utility as provided with Algor/Romulus. And a long and
complete manual.
> The access time to the FlashROM memory of the eFlash 4000 Zorro III card
> is over ten times faster than the access time to FlashROM of the Flash
> Zorro II cards.
Oh right. Give some proof, will ya? Algor reads the flash memory at full
Zorro II speed, which is 2.8 MB/sec. Zorro III does >30MB/sec in non-DMA
mode? And the flashrom also attains that speed?
Anyway, reading 512KB out of the flashrom once at boot up is not really
that time critical (<0.2secs). I've been told the eFlash always reboots
once after powering up to install the rom contents? Well, the Algor only
has to if exec.library is going to be replaced. Hence, lost your Zorro III
speed gain again ;-P
> It is not only because Zorro III protocol is much faster
> than offered by Zorro II. It is also because the FlashROM of the eFlash
> 4000 card is directly readable in one megabyte of linear memory space with
> the 32-bit datapatch, while in Flash Zorro II cards the FlashROM is
> readable through sixteen kilobytes memory window with the 8-bit datapatch.
I wonder -- where did Elbox get this information from? The Algor has the
full 16 bit ZorroII datapath and reads the flashrom in 32-bit accesses,
attaining maximum copyspeed. And if using a memory window would be so much
slower, how come the Mediator uses it for its PCI boards constantly?
Again, is Elbox selling products for more than they're worth? I'd like to
see an independent review in a magazine first. User comments haven't been
positive so far.
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@platon42
Sorry, I can't resist some trolling...
No need to be sorry. Everyone here knows that you attack Elbox when you only can. You are like a puppy barking all the time when hearing that Elbox again did something for Amiga users. You must suffer knowing that, despite your 'wishes', Elbox customers may count on new updates and new products.
also updating the exec.library, which is a bit tricky! Can anyone confirm eFlash supports this?
Bad news for you: eFlash 4000 SUPPORTS updating exec.library during booting.
Oh right. Give some proof, will ya? Algor reads the flash memory at full
Zorro II speed, which is 2.8 MB/sec.
Only 2.8MB/s with Algor?
Well-designed Zorro II cards (e.g. Picasso IV) can easily reach transfers much over 3MB/s. Not to mention Zorro II cards supporting Fast Zorro II transfers in ZIV boards.
Zorro III does >30MB/sec in non-DMA mode?
Which processor card for A3/4000 supports transfers over 30 MB/s from Zorro III slots in non-DMA mode?
I wonder -- where did Elbox get this information from? The Algor has the
Who is talking here about Zorro II controllers of the outdated USB 1.1 standard?
It follows clearly from the text that the point is about Flash Zorro II cards, that is that the description refers to KickFlash cards. I saw such a card. Its producer went so far in savings in production costs that both Flash memory modules in the card are connected to the same eight data lines of the Zorro II connector. Thus he saved some 0.50 EUR on PCB costs... and at the same time cut Zorro II reading speed by half.
Again, is Elbox selling products for more than they're worth?
Who gave you right to say about the value of someone else's work?
You'd better remain with estimating value of the product in whose preparation you participated yourself? Maybe that are Algor cards (for over 100 EUR), which are sold 'for more than they're worth?'
User comments haven't been positive so far.
You can read in news lists that a definite majority of comments from users of Elbox products is very positive. I also have only positive impressions from using Elbox products, which I have many.
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@NightShade737
Soooo, how fast is it? Really...
Bustest reports 16 MB/s here.
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Ah. Finally. Let's train some rats...
Only 2.8MB/s with Algor?
Well-designed Zorro II cards (e.g. Picasso IV) can easily reach transfers much over 3MB/s. Not to mention Zorro II cards supporting Fast Zorro II transfers in ZIV boards.
Lection I: synchronous busses. Zorro II is a purely synchronous bus. This means, each bus transaction is based on a fixed clock (in Zorro II PAL machines, this is 7.14MHz). Each bus access is 4 clocks long. You cannot get faster that the clock given by the master. Picasso IV is not working as bus master in Zorro II modus.
So, enlighten me...
Lection II:
Zorro IV modus. It is not "Zorro". It's some patchwork done by Elbox (by doubling the bus clock, AFAIK). Unfortunately not even Elbox itself is supporting this patch anymore.
Lection III:
Speed. Reading 1MByte (or 8MBit as Elbox is proud to say) in Zorro II mode takes 1/3 second, in Zorro III mode is claimed 1/16s. Wuha. Add the mandatory reset time needed by the eFlash, and compare again. Or leave it out - can you distinguish between both times without a test program ?
It follows clearly from the text that the point is about Flash Zorro II cards, that is that the description refers to KickFlash cards. I saw such a card. Its producer went so far in savings in
Did you just "see" it or backward engineer it ?
production costs that both Flash memory modules in the card are connected to the same eight data lines of the Zorro II connector. Thus he saved some 0.50 EUR on PCB costs... and at the same time cut Zorro II reading speed by half.
Wow. I'm impressed. You don't know a thing about synchronous busses and are able to draw such conclusions ?
I also have only positive impressions from using Elbox products, which I have many.
It is normal for someone working at Elbox to have their products...
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>Oh right. Give some proof, will ya? Algor reads >the flash memory at full
>Zorro II speed, which is 2.8 MB/sec. Zorro III >does >30MB/sec in non-DMA
>mode? And the flashrom also attains that speed?
Platon, the Delfina Flipper uses a trick to do 5,2 MB/sec. So saying that full Zorro II speed is 2.8 MB sec is slightly incorrect.
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Platon, the Delfina Flipper uses a trick to do 5,2 MB/sec. So saying that full Zorro II speed is 2.8 MB sec is slightly incorrect.
The trick you mention is to use address lines as additional write lines (hey, people did this on the Atari ROM slot once a while :). This works in only one direction, which is writing. For reading, there is no way of doing such a hack, as address lines are always set by the busmaster (in this case, the CPU).
For Delfina this is a very nice way of enhancing the write throughput for playing back sound.
So Platon is not wrong here, talking about read speed.
A remark on Zorro II bus speed: you have 7.14MHz clock, with four clocks building up a standard bus cycle. There is no block transfer mode in Zorro II, so add one clock to divide the bus accesses. You end up with five clock cycles of 140ns each => you can transfer a 16bit word in 700ns (assuming that nobody else wants access to the bus).
Here we go: (5x 140ns)^(-1) x 2bytes = 2.72 MB/s
(for rats: ignore it, may contain too many facts)
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@Platon
I do think that what you have just done is a bit childish.
Now you may be correct in your various assumptions about the eFlasher, I don't know, I not up on ZII/III, but attacking a press release is stupid.
Elbox don't do it. They may have made indirect stabs at a competing product, but they have not named it, unlike you.
I do think that your comments put you in a bad light, and do not do you any favours.
Rassilon
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I have an A4000 desktop, PPC MKIII, Cyberstorm
Graphic card that works great until I plug
my eFlash 4000 in. No matter what I flash, if
the boot jumper is set nothing works. I cant
even get the MKIII's rom settings screen.
It look's llike I spent $66.00 on a tshirt
and aquired another piece of hardware that
doesn't do what the ad's say it does.
Bob Reising
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@Rassilon:
Why should Elbox get away with their fairy tales and other product bashing? They've been playing their game of deception long enough. This is just a warning to people not to believe all the {bleep} they're posting in their "press releases". If you they want competition, they should do it in a fair way and not by claiming things, giving wrong and unproven numbers or using puppets like Rat.
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@rat:
> Elbox customers may count on new updates and new products.
Yeah, they're counting... like the number of months that have passed after announcing products like the SharkPPC, which will never see the light of day with working software, or the eFlash1200, which was announced in Aug2003. Or the MPEG decoder TV drivers, announced last year. Or any functional (!) (that means, not mere bugfixing) driver update within the last six months. Or are they counting the number of lockups of the 100mbit drivers, or the lockups that occur with Warp3D?
>Bad news for you: eFlash 4000 SUPPORTS updating exec.library during booting.
Any proof for this? You don't have any credibility here. Any user that can confirm this? E.g. by turning on the machine, booting without startup-sequence and entering "version exec.library"
> Only 2.8MB/s with Algor?
Yeah, bloke, that's the max the bus supports.
> Well-designed Zorro II cards (e.g. Picasso IV) can easily reach transfers much over 3MB/s.
Du träumst auch von den nackten Weißwürschten in der Nacht, heh?
> Not to mention Zorro II cards supporting Fast Zorro II transfers in ZIV boards.
Zorro "IV" is not Zorro, but a hack.
> Which processor card for A3/4000 supports transfers over 30 MB/s from Zorro III slots in non-DMA mode?
Well, didn't Elbox say that their card does over ten times the bandwidth than other zorro II flashrom solutions? As this includes the Algor, and the Algor does 2.8MB/sec, Elbox claim to have about 30MB/sec transfer rate.
> Who is talking here about Zorro II controllers of the outdated USB 1.1 standard?
Elbox is talking about "flash solutions" and "flash zorro II cards". This of course also includes the Algor card (or the highway with romulus extension), which offers so much more for the price, than just simply blocking a valuable zorro slot with a mere flashrom functionality. And for $66,00 that BR has paid for his eFlash4000, you nearly get the complete Algor board with the nice and working USB1.1 controller and actually even more FlashRom space (due to the optional compression). And the software works quite well and is user friendly, compared to some other Zorro III flashrom product (hey rassilon, I managed not to mention the product name!).
> Who gave you right to say about the value of someone else's work?
Who gave that right to YOU? You were the one that started all that constantly non-Elbox product bashing! You don't have a CLUE about the time and effort that was involved in those products and how much they are worth, but instead, you use every single chance to bad-mouth them. So I'm just shooting back.
> You can read in news lists that a definite majority of comments from users of Elbox products is very positive.
Give me just ONE positive statement from a user with a working eFlash4000 card.
> I also have only positive impressions from using Elbox products, which I have many.
Blimey! How come I am not surprised!
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@Chris
The difference between Elbox's post and your own, is that you named competing products and they didn't.
They may well post adverts that you don't agree with, dispute, or believe to be a downright lie, but you do yourself no favours by replying the way you did.
I had a look at the press releases for the Algor/Subway/highway etc. I didn't see anyone from Elbox jumping in and bashing your post!
Just calm down, and do what you do best - i.e.continue writing a bloody good USB stack!!!
Rassilon
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The difference between Elbox's post and your own, is that you named competing products and they didn't.
Don't mention a competing product by name? :lol:
Tojaz has a habit of attacking every competing product by name with outright lies and half truths. I'd take what he says with a grain of salt to say the least.
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This is realy funny :-D! Everyone gets blinded by his own needs, considering everything else useless...
These products are wonderful, and are directed to different buyers:
The eFlash 4000 card can be used on the spare Zorro slots of the Mediator PCI. The GFX/Sound/Ethernet needs are accomplished by the PCI solutions.
On the other hand, a FlashROM/Zorro card combo is a MUST for the classic Zorro Amigas.
As for the matter of speed, this is the funniest part: whatever this is, it's not perceptible: less then a second to initialize all the ROMUpdates and the patches/drivers...
The whole thing brings to my mind the kids dispute: "mine is better than yours", "no it isn't", "yes it is!" and so forth...
________
FFM XXX (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/19/ffm/videos/1)
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@Rassilon:
> The difference between Elbox's post and your own, is that you named competing products and they didn't.
No -- they prefer bashing products without naming them (but as there are not too many other products out there, it is evident which products are meant). Which is legally safer, but morally equivalent.
> They may well post adverts that you don't agree with, dispute, or believe to be a downright lie
Some just *are* plain false information. Like:
> FlashROM memory installed on the eFlash 4000 card allows also direct execution of programs stored in this memory without the necessity of copying programs code to the system Fast memory.
This is plain wrong -- because 99,999% of the programs on the Amiga are *not* PC relative binaries and need to be relocated. And this needs to be done in the target memory (and don't come and tell me -- hey, this can be done, /before/ flashing the data into the FlashRom, because this gets really messy with chipram and BSS hunk).
Another example? They claiming that booting off USB mass storage devices works. Poseidon cannot be flashed into the eFlash. I won't tell why (and no, this is no provision added on purpose to make it NOT work for the eFlash).
> I had a look at the press releases for the Algor/Subway/highway etc. I didn't see anyone from Elbox jumping in and bashing your post!
Elbox never do this dirty work themselves. They have Rat aka Tjaoz for this purpose. As a recent example, see the thread about redrumloa buying the Prometheus stock on amiga.org and ann.lu (also ann.lu contains various comments threads with Rat bashing other products without agitation).
> Just calm down, and do what you do best - i.e.continue writing a bloody good USB stack!!!
I think we agree in this point! All this {bleep}ing does not yield anything positive -- Moreover, Elbox will be gone at the end of April anyway, so these things are not too important ;)
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@mboehmer_e3b
Ah. Finally. Let's train some rats...
Referring to somebody's family name in the way you are doing it does not give you evidence of culture and education.
What else could one expect from a baloon-mind like you?
Lection I: synchronous busses. Zorro II is a purely synchronous bus. This means, each bus transaction is based on a fixed clock (in Zorro II PAL machines, this is 7.14MHz). Each bus access is 4 clocks long. You cannot get faster that the clock given by the master. Picasso IV is not working as bus master in Zorro II modus.
So, enlighten me...
If you want it, I will try to enlighten you:
Just imagine there are backplanes, which in the Zorro II mode support block transfer mode. They do not add any additional clocks to divide the bus accesses during longword reads.
How Zorro II cycles look like in such backplanes you can see in this (http://www.schoenfeld.de/timing/RBM32r.gif) drawing from the Individuals website.
A well designed Zorro II card achieves over 3MB/s in such backplanes.
Lection II:
Zorro IV modus. It is not "Zorro". It's some patchwork done by Elbox (by doubling the bus clock, AFAIK). Unfortunately not even Elbox itself is supporting this patch anymore.
Anymore?
As far as I know Elbox has never produced any Zorro II cards. Elbox all the time supports ZIV busboards, producing cards/boards, which are to be installed in much faster ZIV slots: Mediator ZIV, FastATA IV.
Lection III:
Speed. Reading 1MByte (or 8MBit as Elbox is proud to say) in Zorro II mode takes 1/3 second, in Zorro III mode is claimed 1/16s. Wuha. Add the mandatory reset time needed by the eFlash, and compare again. Or leave it out - can you distinguish between both times without a test program ?
I have already heard it. Why should one make a USB 2.0 controller if one can make slow USB 1.1 one?
Does it matter that USB 1.1 (it means without Hi-Speed mode) are no longer produced to other computers?
You show that accessories to computers may be sold like antique goods. The slower this thing, the more you can ask for it ;-)
Did you just "see" it or backward engineer it ?
Connection Flash data lines to the half of the Zorro data lines is clear from the first sight.
You would rather need backward engineering to find it out? :-)
Wow. I'm impressed. You don't know a thing about synchronous busses and are able to draw such conclusions ?
Again you seem to be omniscient to yourself.
It is normal for someone working at Elbox to have their products...
I do not work in Elbox. I do not know if anyone from Elbox uses Amiga at home.
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@mboehmer_e3b
A remark on Zorro II bus speed: you have 7.14MHz clock, with four clocks building up a standard bus cycle. There is no block transfer mode in Zorro II, so add one clock to divide the bus accesses. You end up with five clock cycles of 140ns each => you can transfer a 16bit word in 700ns (assuming that nobody else wants access to the bus).
Here we go: (5x 140ns)^(-1) x 2bytes = 2.72 MB/s
As I wrote you earlier, there are Zorro II backplane implementations where the busmaster does not need to lose the 5th clock cycle when reads are done in longwords.
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@Rassilon
Don't you know that Hodges is severely obsessed with Elbox?
He attacked them even in his own homepage. Since December his website news read:
'Registration process is open again, mainly for ArakAttack, but poor Spider sods won't be rejected anymore. I hope a certain company will go out of business anyway soon.'
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@BR
No matter what I flash, if the boot jumper is set nothing works.
So the problem arises when you switch on the eFlash booting option?
What programs have you stored in the Flash?
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@platon42
Yeah, they're counting... like the number of months that have passed after announcing products like the SharkPPC
You have not notices that OS4 has not been released so far?
They made it clear many times that there will be no Shark before OS is released.
Or the MPEG decoder TV drivers, announced last year.
Yes, they have been working on this support for months. I know how much time their programmers devoted to it.
One think you can be sure: such support will never appear for any other Amiga PCI. Noone else is willing to spend so many time and efforts on preparing new drivers.
Or any functional (!) (that means, not mere bugfixing) driver update within the last six months.
Funny you are.
You are running so fast that you have not noticed that you comment on a news informing about new software from Elbox.
Or are they counting the number of lockups of the 100mbit drivers
I have a 100Mbps card and I have not had any lockup for over a year. You must change your anty-Elbox FUDs' issues. That one is very outdated.
or the lockups that occur with Warp3D?
Elbox paid for preparing Warp 3D for Mediators, but Warp 3D was prepared by Hyperion and not by Elbox. So if you want to spread gossips about bugs in this software, you should rather find a different thread.
Any proof for this? You don't have any credibility here.
Your credibility is null in your attacks against Elbox. You have proved many times that public spreading of lies on them is your best part.
Well, didn't Elbox say that their card does over ten times the bandwidth than other zorro II flashrom solutions?
Read again the Elbox statment. Elbox did not write 'other flashrom solution'.
Elbox wrote about 'Flash Zorro II cards' and, which is clear from the description, thought about Kickflash cards, which run at half the Algor's speed, that is up to 1.4 MB/s.
As this includes the Algor, and the Algor does 2.8MB/sec, Elbox claim to have about 30MB/sec transfer rate.
1.4 MB/s x 10 = 14 MB/s if you cannot count it yourself...
Elbox is talking about "flash solutions"
Can you indicate the place in the announcement where this is used?
You haver a strange habit of declaring others stating things they have never stated. Only for the reason to immediately criticise them for this not existing statement.
Who gave that right to YOU? You were the one that started all that constantly non-Elbox product bashing!
Was I the first one to talk?
No. As usually that is you, who started bashing an Elbox product in this thread.
Many times in the past I saw your statements on Spider prices. It was always you who started bashing.
So I'm just shooting back.
You speak exactly like Mr. Bush a year ago.
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@a rat aka tjaoz:
> They made it clear many times that there will be no Shark before OS is released.
Because the Shark is never going to work? In which dream world are you living that Hyperion is going to port OS4 to a card that has a ZERO user base and that will not support mainboard access, thus is as valuable as a PC running a Sonnet card? And sorry, IMHO no one at Elbox is capable of writing complex software.
> You are running so fast that you have not noticed that you comment on a news informing about new software from Elbox.
About features that should have been there right from the beginning and 90% advertising and other products bashing.
> I have a 100Mbps card and I have not had any lockup for over a year. You must change your anty-Elbox FUDs' issues. That one is very outdated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/messagesearch?query=lockup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/messagesearch?query=100mb
Nice try, Rat :-P
> Elbox paid for preparing Warp 3D for Mediators, but Warp 3D was prepared by Hyperion and not by Elbox. So if you want to spread gossips about bugs in this software, you should rather find a different thread.
Strange that these bugs only occur on the Mediator, huh?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/messagesearch?query=warp
> > Elbox is talking about "flash solutions"
> Can you indicate the place in the announcement where this is used?
Sure, if you have problems with reading, just look at the last line. I'll quote it again for you:
> "If your Amiga is equipped with Zorro III bus, the eFlash 4000 card is the best FLASH solution for you!"
You seem to have the strange habit of talking elbollocks. Moreover, I'm really disappointed about your efforts -- you were better in the past. Getting a bit old, huh?
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Yes, only when the boott jumper is on.
The only thing I've flashed is what the
installation script asks if you want flashed,
the OS Rom Update.
Bob Reising
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You speak exactly like Mr. Bush a year ago.
Sigh. Wasn't Poland in the "Coalition of the Willing" ? Didn't Poland get its own sector in Iraq ? Come on, guy, Mr. Bush is your big friend.
Anyhow, this is a little bit offtopic, so take it as a comment, nothing else.
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A well designed Zorro II card achieves over 3MB/s in such backplanes.
Did you benchmark the ALGOR in such a non-Commodore backplane ? No, I'd guess.
You know, a well designed card doesn't care about such things, it just works at the speed given by the bus system. Like the ALGOR does.
I do not work in Elbox. I do not know if anyone from Elbox uses Amiga at home.
Fore sure they do. They all are working on Shark PPCs with OS4 :lol:
Always a please to read your comments here. Gives me a laugh or two :-P
Michael
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I have seen that people are using my site (logic analyzer shots) for false claims.
There is no "backplane" that supports burst accesses in Zorro II mode. What the quoted shot shows is a single longword-access that is automatically split up into two word-accesses by the processor card (not by the Zorro board!!). The distance between the two accesses is short, yes, but the distance to the next longword-access is the same as between two single word accesses, so the gain is minimal, and the gain is the same on *all* Zorro II implementations. If you quote me, please quote me correctly.
Also, let me clean up with the rumor that Z-IV is an Elbox invention: It is not. The concept for the Z4 busboard is made by Steffen Christ (Mr. Apollo) and me (see how many clockports the thing has? ;-)). Elbox bought up the rest of the boards when Steffen stopped making them.
Now let's go for some content: Elbox claims that executing code is possible without copying into memory. Sorry guys, the Amiga roms *always* copy the Zorro-roms into ram, and execute it there. Your claim might be right for hardware-hacking, but it does not apply to the application you're selling. Your card can be relocated in the address space of the Amiga, so the code also has to be. As long as you don't have a software that relocates *in the flash*, you should leave this claim out in order not to lose credibility.
It's like an oil company praising the burning properties of their gas in the gas tank of your car. Man, my car still burns the gas in the combustion chamber, so I don't care about anything else.
Double-standard: Mediator1200 uses banking, and that's OK. My Kickflash uses banking, and that's bad. I wonder why.
Speed: Kickflash has 1MB, and copying that to memory takes a little over half a second. It saves you a reboot, meaning on some systems it saves a good 40 seconds. Now let's translate Elbox's wording: eFlash4000 saves you 40.4 seconds, while other products only save you 40 seconds.
Somehow this reminds me of a bad German movie "Manta Manta", where drivers of some wannabe-sportscar argue about the top speed being 209.3 or 209.5 km/h. Hell, they're going way over 120 miles per hour, what's the point?
Jens Schoenfeld
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I don't think you're trolling, Chris. I think this post is very
respectable, for three reasons:
1) It's factual. By that I don't mean that all you say necessarily is
true, but that if someone finds an error or mistake, it's possible to
prove you wrong.
2) You're not hiding your identity, you stand for your words.
3) You're naming the product you criticise. Yes, this is definitely a
plus, as again it means you're willing to stand for your words. Taking
cheap shots is safer, perhaps.. and more cowardly.
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@platon42
Some just *are* plain false information. Like:
FlashROM memory installed in the eFlash 4000 card allows also direct execution of programs stored in this memory without the necessity of copying programs code to the system Fast memory.
This is plain wrong
What is wrong? eFlash 4000 card hardware allows this.
-- because 99,999% of the programs on the Amiga are *not* PC relative binaries and need to be relocated.
Do you really not understand what Elbox is about in this text?
This is a HARDWARE feature that eFlash 4000 FlashROM memory area is available in the processor data and program space. This allows preparation of such programs/procedures, which may be executed directly in the Flash memory. Of course, this does not limit starting programs in the standard way with copying them to RAM.
I get from your tone that no FlashROM Zorro II offers such capacity :-)
Algor FlashROM is available ONLY in the processor data space?
Another example? They claiming that booting off USB mass storage devices works.
What a cheat of you.
In your first comment for the news you wrote:
"When drivers are available"? So this doesn't work yet? Booting from USB works for Algor since a year now.
Now you are writing that they are writing it works. You contradict yourself.
Schisofrenia?
Elbox never do this dirty work themselves.
Dirty work is what you are doing. I saw many places, where you attacked Elbox. I never saw Elbox attacking you.
To recall one of your attacks on them: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/highway_usb/message/847
And their response: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/highway_usb/message/870
They have Rat aka Tjaoz for this purpose.
I'm a free person and I live in a free country. I am fully responsible for my statements and opinions.
If any company tried influence me, well, Michael Boehmer from E3B tried to frighten me in his private email to make me change my words on Algor. I do not want to listen to him. I always try to base my statements on verifiable facts.
read about redrumloa buying the Prometheus stock on amiga.org and ann.lu
Prometheus *stock* is still in the ITR company in Warsaw, which assembled them 3 years ago.
All I wrote in amiga.org and ann.lu about Prometheus cards is true. (Amiga.org has censorship and delete all negative posts about Prometheus.)
Moreover, Elbox will be gone at the end of April anyway
Elbox "will be gone at the end of April"?
Are you planning an attack? Bombing them or hitting a plane in their building? I always thought you were a terrorist.
Are you from Al-Qaida?
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@platon42
> I have a 100Mbps card and I have not had any lockup for over a year. You must change your anty-Elbox FUDs' issues. That one is very outdated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/messagesearch?query=lockup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/messagesearch?query=100mb
Nice try, Rat
You entered "lockup" in the search engine and you think no-one will check these posts?
These posts found by you confirm only my words:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/message/16974
'When using DHCP in MiamiDX there is a known bug with lease renewal. I had this problem myself. You need to get a router and disable lease renewal or set it to its max time. I had to set mine to 9999999 in the time. Since I started using the router and did this I havent has a single lockup problem or a disconnect with my 8039 card.'
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/message/16975
'I used to have lockup problems but as Elbox have upgraded their drivers over the past year or so I no longer have any problems at all.'
Strange that these bugs only occur on the Mediator, huh?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/messagesearch?query=warp
Only on the Mediator?
No wonder, if you are looking for posts on Warp3D in the Mediator ML, you will find there posts on Mediator.
Search other MLs and you will find Warp3D problems with other hardware. Check the G-REX ML, you will be amazed how many problems are there.
Or, instead of posting comments on wrong operation of Warp3D, contact Hyperion - they are responsible for Warp3D...
You do not have a Mediator or Warp3D to it?
Oooops... I forgot that you are mostly in spreading gossips.
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@BR
Yes, only when the boott jumper is on. The only thing I've flashed is what the installation script asks if you want flashed,
the OS Rom Update.
Try to program FlashROM from Shell. First do this: eFlasher ROMUPDATE. Then switch ON the eFlash booting. Is it working OK?
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@Schoenfeld
The distance between the two accesses is short, yes, but the distance to the next longword-access is the same as between two single word accesses, so the gain is minimal, and the gain is the same on *all* Zorro II implementations.
You may wrongly understood what your logic analyzer showed or you do not understand what we are talking about here.
You can see from this image (http://www.schoenfeld.de/timing/RBM32r.gif) that reading of the longword from PIC in this backplane lasts for 8 clock cycles. If, as you say, the break from the end of longword reading to starting the next reading is standard, that is one clock cycle, it means that readings of longwords start every 9 clock cycles. The speed of reading the PIC card in this Zorro II backplane is:
4 (bytes) * 7.14 MHz / 9 cycles = 3.17 MB/s
3.17 MB/s is rather higher from 2.8 MB/s, which Hodges thinks is the maximum possible Zorro II reading speed...
Now let's go for some content: Elbox claims that executing code is possible without copying into memory. Sorry guys, the Amiga roms *always* copy the Zorro-roms into ram, and execute it there.
You misunderstood that text to which you are referring. Read it again and read my post to Hodges on it.
Double-standard: Mediator1200 uses banking, and that's OK.
Mediator 1200 must use banking due to the design of turbo cards for A1200. If A1200 turbo cards had all 32 address lines led to the CPU connector, then there will be no banking in Mediator 1200. Fortunately, the window is quite large, 8MB, so its switching in normal operations is quite rare.
My Kickflash uses banking, and that's bad. I wonder why.
The window in Kicklash is very small (16kB), but I think it does not matter. The BASIC thing is that both Flash chips are in Kickflash connected to the same 8 data lines. This reduces the maximum speed of reading from Kickflash to 1.4 MB/s.
Speed: Kickflash has 1MB, and copying that to memory takes a little over half a second. It saves you a reboot, meaning on some systems it saves a good 40 seconds.
Could you specify the config in which Kickflash saves 40 s?
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Ah... Rat's back...
You may wrongly understood what your logic analyzer showed or you do not understand what we are talking about here.
Funny you are. Ever worked with a logic analyzer? Ever built any hardware yourself?
No, I'd guess. And now you start pissing at somebody's foot who is in hardware business for years now.
BTW, if talking about bandwith... busses usually are shared, so you won't be able to do bus hogging for too long, which means that you normally get about 80% of bus bandwidth in ideal cases.
Mediator 1200 must use banking due to the design of turbo cards for A1200.
Even if there were 32 address lines, you would have to do banking, as PCI address space itself is 4GB, and 32 address lines are exactly 4GB.
The Amiga itself needs some of this address space.
AFAIK, the Mediator is mapped into the system as Zorro card, and the size of Zorro cards is limited again (Zorro II: 8MB, Zorro III: 1GB).
Michael
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Ah... Rat again...
Algor FlashROM is available ONLY in the processor data space?
Another proof of your knowledge... how do you access memory without address lines ? Good god...
If any company tried influence me, well, Michael Boehmer from E3B tried to frighten me in his private email to make me change my words on Algor. I do not want to listen to him. I always try to base my statements on verifiable facts.
Well... nice try. But unfortunately you always fail with your attempts to give any proofs for your statements.
What you refer about was simple (you may look in the corresponding mail): if you think you found a mistake on a web page, contact the webmaster of the site. You didn't. You started spreading public accusations on mailing lists.
Are you planning an attack? Bombing them or hitting a plane in their building?
I don't think such dramatic action is foreseen. And I don't think it is necessary :-) .
What I could think here is that with Poland joining the European Community same laws apply to all of us. Laws regulating unfair competition, dealing with advertisements and warranty issues.
Some cheated customers might just be enough.
Are you from Al-Qaida?
Are you from Al-Buggs :lol: ?
Michael
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@Schoenfeld
You may wrongly understood what your logic analyzer showed or you do not understand what we are talking about here.
ROFL... Now I`ve read it all, Tjaoz telling Jens that he doesn`t know what he`s talking about..:lol:
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@Tjaoz,
Why do you flame others for not understanding your replies, when you clearly don`t understand them?
This is a HARDWARE feature that eFlash 4000 FlashROM memory area is available in the processor data and program space. This allows preparation of such programs/procedures, which may be executed directly in the Flash memory
Executed directly in the flash memory????
That`s dangerous. As others have pointed out, the majority of programs **MUST** be loaded into RAM before execution.
What would happen if the program contained a BSS hunk (and there`s at least one in the 3.9 RomUpdate that does) and was executed directly in flash?
The program stored after it in flash would get overwritten and corrupted.
So either you`re wrong and don`t understand how programs are loaded an run, or you`re right but the eFlash is likely to keep corrupting it`s contents.
BTW, care to explain what you mean by "processor data and program space"