Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: Cass on March 26, 2004, 03:41:28 PM
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Amigaworld.net has obtained a lengthy interview with KMOS CEO Garry Hare.
By way of introducing him to the wider Amiga community and to clear up some persistant long term queries. Garry has kindly offered to answer these questions and more below (http://amigaworld.net/modules/features/index.php?op=r&cat_id=3&rev_id=50&sort_by).
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Chevrolet kingswood estate specifications (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Kingswood_Estate)
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Forgive me if I no longer believe a single word coming from this side.
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Grrr.
Bl00dy Websense blocks it here at work. AW.net recently must have added 'games' to their metadata or something.
Oh well, will have to wait until I get in (after I've blown the froth off of a couple ;~)
Not having seen it, I obviously cannot comment on content, but at least it was speedy.
-john
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Interesting read, but I have serious issues with the business card answer :lol:
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@jd997uk
Seems you are having as much fun as me! I can't read it here at Sutton either!
Lewis
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@jd997uk
Does this (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Famigaworld.net%2Fmodules%2Ffeatures%2Findex.php%3Fop%3Dr%26cat_id%3D3%26rev_id%3D50%26sort_by&langpair=it%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&prev=%2Flanguage_tools) work?
@KennyR
Which 'side' are you referring to and why? Just curious.
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Three digits:
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Good interview. Well done. Interesting but relieving to hear the business card explanation.
I have no qualms at believing this, as it's exactly what I've thought (and said) for quite a while... While he was not with CEO of Amiga Inc, he at least for one show, represented himself to others as the CEO of Amiga Inc. (at least on cardstock).
In was inarguable to me that the card I held in my hand was "real" (as opposed to a Photoshop creation), but he did a great job of explaining it and I think this -- along with the entire interview -- will go a long way towards repairing the rift in the current Amiga community.
Now, it worries me that he is doing AmigaOS for "one customer" (is that Amiga Inc, Hyperion, or Eyetech) as opposed to the mass market, but after years of putting up with this community, I think you guys have just made me paranoid as hell..
Thanks Garry. Best of luck.
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@kennyR
Your in the right mood as always :-P
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@Wayne
It still bothers me that people who should know better are still mealy-mouthing the issue after calling you a liar.
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@rassilon
Managed to circumvent it.
A plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel*
Copied the link into the google translation service and translated it into german.
Luckily, it only translated up to 1.10 and left the rest intact.
So... Cut questions 1 thru 10 out and translated it back on the text box.
It's ok, but has mangled parts of it.
WTF rueckgespraech means I really don't know ;-P
-john
*copyright Edmund Blackadder
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@Wayne
I have not so far been able to read the interview, cos its blocked here at work.
But I am happy to admit I was wrong on the Business card issue.
Its quite amazing as the scans DID look like photoshop mods. Its getting so you can't even trust your eyes these days!!! :-D
Rassilon
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@T_Bone.
There will always be "those" who don't understand or accept that which doesn't fall into their narrow-minded views. Some times, each of us is one of "those". I'm just hoping with the official explanation that we can finally close that chapter in this soap opera and move onto another story line.
The writing on this soap opera is rivalling Days of Our Lives, and I should know. Having this time on my hands has made me an addict.
Wayne
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So, the business card palava was Bill Buck's fault?
Why do I have absolutely no problem believing that? :-D
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@Martyn
Heh, thanks, but I sorta got there in the end. I see you went down the Italian route. Seems to have give a cleaner result than mine.
Printing it now (17 pages) for the journey home.
Cheers
-john
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In was inarguable to me that the card I held in my hand was "real"
I for one am very glad this nonsense is cleared up at last.. Seems both sides told part of the truth (as usual?).. Tho I fail to see why Bill Buck did what he did.. (Yes yes, to spread FUD.. Even if this is so, he could have known it would not work out in his benefit/gain but a loss.)
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Gary:Only recently did I discover what a moo bunny was
The poor man... :lol:
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@jd997uk
the only prob is that Sutton blocks translation websites!!!!
Lewis
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Vincent,
I don't believe anyone said that exactly. It's certainly Bill Buck's fault that "the business card incident" was blown to such proportions, and I will openly admit and apologize for the fact that I was played as a pawn in respect to the card fiasco (though I did have the card for a short while).
I won't even try to defend Buck on it, but at least on my part, I can only apologize and hope that everyone understands that we all make mistakes. In perspective, it's very easy when you're already at odds with one side of the equation to accept the story presented by the other side.
The fact still remains that Garry DID hand them out, so he is at least partly responsible for the situation hence it's not 100% Bill Buck's fault. More than likely that Garry was simply unaware of the implications that handing out such a business card would create within the conspiracy mindedness of this community.
Conversely, Buck -- being the PR pusher that he is -- saw this as another way to seperate the community and drive people towards the Pegasos. In that, he succeeded, no matter the long-term "losses".
Garry even so much as said he really had no idea about the Amiga community until recently.. I only hope after such a seemingly open and honorable interview that we don't corrupt him as we seem to have done with everyone else involved.
Wayne
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I only hope we don't corrupt him as we seem to have done with everyone else involved.
We corrupt them? :roflmao:
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We corrupt them?
I certainly believe that we (the community) cause distraction which doesn't help. Look how tightly wound Gary, Ray, and a couple of others are into watching everything we type... :-)
Wayne
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/me Twitches uh oh.. more community talk... :lol:
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Don't twitch. No need. Just watch and have fun.
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Love ya Wayne. :)
Ivan
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Im happy Garry isn`t a man with big promises :-)
A down-to-earth man, with sense of humour
:-)
A good combination :pint:
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@Wayne
Because of Garry Hare's unfortunate oblivion (I mean that in a nice way) to the actual Amiga community I do agree it was partly his fault. But he has had no experience of this community, so he had absolutely no idea what the implications would be. So, I don't really blame him for the mess that was created.
But looking at his answer to the question, to me it sounds as if Bill Buck wanted to tell the world that Amiga had a new CEO, he went to a little bother just trying to get the business card and then put it out on the web.
Now, Mr William Hamilton Buck knows first hand what this community is like. He would have known full well what would ensue if the business card and the words "Amiga" and "CEO" got out to the community.
This incident just proves to me that he is not in it for the community, he's in it for Pegasos sales. Now, that is all well and good, but splitting the community is not going to help.
So I blame Buck for say, about 99% of the problem and Hare for 1% due to his outsiderness :-)
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Martyn wrote:
Which 'side' are you referring to and why? Just curious.
The 'side' thats perpetually secretive, patronising, condescending; the 'side' that deals with criticism first by first denying it then trying to turn it back and making out the accusers to be the bad ones; the 'side' that makes Q&As about products they've already sold without telling anyone. The side that will not change no matter who is in charge.
And I know it hasn't changed, just by reading this 'interview'. This to me is just like all the other statements coming from this side: accusitive, but not answering any of the real and prudent questions which we are all dying to know.
I have to love this:
""A while later we added a third category; anyone Mr. Buck had called an "idiot". In most cases these "idiots" were computer enthusiasts not industry professionals."
Well, I searched ANN, and Amiga.org, and even tried to search Moobunny, but nowhere have I found a statement by bbrv where he calls anyone an idiot - not even me, when I was heavily critical of him some year ago. Anyone who finds one can post a link, please. Such epithets are much more typical to spring to the mouths (or typing fingers) of a certain Hyperion employee and an AInc webmaster. Folks would do well to realise this before they fire up their demonization machinery.
In summary: same old rubbish, different name.
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I have no real problem with the business card explanation, having been convinced of its authenticity from the start (I saw two separate scans - Wayne's and Bill Buck's, I presume - and one of them had clearly captured what was a small pencil mark at the top of the card. It was unlikely that someone had faked that.)
What I'm less convinced about is the motivation behind the purchase, the reason for keeping it under wraps until now, and just who is involved in this whole thing. To me it still sounds very much like IP laundering is the only creditable motivation.
The explanation that the Amiga Inc investors were getting rid of non-core assets (supported by various individuals) is quite laughable. It's not so much a case of Amiga Inc getting rid of AmigaOS as AmigaOS getting rid of Amiga Inc.
As for Mr Hare, I will reserve judgement. Once upon a time I used to think that people should be given support unless they do something to lose it. Those days are gone. Now respect needs to be earned, and Mr Hare has his work cut out before he can say he has done that.
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The 'side' thats perpetually secretive, patronising, condescending; the 'side' that deals with criticism first by first denying it then trying to turn it back and making out the accusers to be the bad ones.
Hehe. That sounds a heck of a lot like it would apply equally to both "sides" involved the recent "Amiga civil war".
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Bhogget wrote:
Hehe. That sounds a heck of a lot like it would apply equally to both "sides" involved the recent "Amiga civil war".
True enough, but if AInc were a bit more open about their dealings (or at least less damning of anyone who DARES speculate in the gaping vacuum their silence leaves), the whole business card thing would have been a total non-issue.
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@Kenny,
Despite how things may look, I'm not taking any side here. There are very rudimentary problems with both Amiga Inc and Genesi, and I am not white washing or trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes here.
I can however state unequivocably that BBRV have both commonly called many people "idiots". It is, in fact, one of their favorite words apparently.
This is no different than certain other people from Amiga Inc jumping into threads any time their name is mentioned to defend themselves by calling everyone else "liars".
Face it, where the professional leaves off, the person takes up, and people (beyond professionalism) say and do stupid things regardless of their "color".
Wayne
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@Bhoggett,
That too worries me. The timing of the sale (after Amiga Inc already had existing judgements standing against them) but that is a part of the soap opera that both you and I can only sit back and watch (thanks to Rich and Sam).
What do you think for a title?
"As the boing bounces"?
Hey, at least it'll make a good title for my next editorial. :)
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This to me is just like all the other statements coming from this side: accusitive, but not answering any of the real and prudent questions which we are all dying to know.
Really ? Compared to Fleecy's and Bill Buck's postings this was a very open and informative interview, IMHO
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Really ? Compared to Fleecy's and Bill Buck's postings this was a very open and informative interview, IMHO
Agreed. I make no assumptions (maybe I'm learning) about the.. erm.. level of honesty(?) contained therein -- everyone has their own perspective -- but it's nice to be told in what seems to be a forthright way exactly what's going on.
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The thing I was surprised about in this interview was that Gary also seemed to question some of Amiga Inc's legal decisions, if he was "like all the others" he would have just attacked Genesi.. Heck, he even seems not to hold anything against Bill about the business card incident.. If he can, why can't we ? (we = red, blue, purple, pink and dark sides of the Amiga community..)
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Well, I searched ANN, and Amiga.org, and even tried to search Moobunny, but nowhere have I found a statement by bbrv where he calls anyone an idiot - not even me, when I was heavily critical of him some year ago. Anyone who finds one can post a link, please. Such epithets are much more typical to spring to the mouths (or typing fingers) of a certain Hyperion employee and an AInc webmaster. Folks would do well to realise this before they fire up their demonization machinery.
Quite right there KennyR. Moron is more the word BBRV uses. Like the time he insulted Amiga.org visitors because they showed their support for OS4 in a forum topic.
I don't want to get mixed up in such discussions but when somebody calls me a moron just for showing support for a project, well... And that for a 'business' person and to potential customers. Tss..
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So I blame Buck for say, about 99% of the problem and Hare for 1% due to his outsiderness
Hare admits misrepresents himself at a show by handing out business cards proclaiming him to be Chairman and CEO of Amiga Inc when he wasn't even employed by them.
If I dress up in a suit and go to C.E.S. handing out cards saying I am the new CEO of Apple, and somebody at the show gets my card and posts it to an Apple forum site as a news item, whose fault would the resulting confusion be? Mine, for handing out cards or the person who takes the cards at face value and posts the news?
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Hare admits misrepresents himself at a show by handing out business cards proclaiming him to be Chairman and CEO of Amiga Inc when he wasn't even employed by them.
Read it again Lando, he clearly states he said he was considering joining Amiga..
Tho IMHO he shouldn't have handed out business cards, but that's not the point in your argument
Edit; should read better myself.. :-( :-D
But to make it a bit less :-( why do people give other people's business cards away ? (Why did David Traub give away the card to Bill ?)
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I'm heartened by his accolades for Neely Gardner for his ethics. But can a guy who worked for Disney, and advised Fortune 100 companies about Latin American "investments" really be that ethical? Latin America has had all kinds of oppression since wayyy back, with much, if not most of it due to corporate interests rolling over the democratic interests of the residents there. I hope he was advocating *ethical* behavior.
I liked the BallBlazer and Fractalis references.
"KMOS, Inc. acquired the Operating System from Amiga, Inc. to bring full cross-platform, multimedia functionality to wired and wireless devices."
Sounds not so good.
When exactly, did Amiga Inc agree to sell the AmigaOS rights and when did they do so?
Itec has been an investor in Amiga since the purchase of the assets from Gateway. It remains an investor today. Itec is also the Senior (first place) Secured Creditor of Amiga Inc. KMOS purchased the OS asset from Itec.
Sounds like Itec got tired of waiting for Moss/McEwen to start shipping products and making a profit. So they had to sell the OS.
It's going to get weird if Amiga Inc owns the name, but not the AmigaOS. Thank you Fleecy and Bill. WTF!?
And doesn't Hare check his spelling or syntax or grammar before sending his replies back to the interviewer? Not professional looking, especially from an academic. Hope he is more careful in the future.
If I remember correctly, it was a horoscope title
Sounds more like a Mac community bit of crapware. Horoscopes..WTF!??
I quickly responded that as long as there was litigation between the companies he would have to communicate through legal counsel.
Maybe I'm unwashed but that seems a tad unfriendly.
What exactly did the business card look like or say? If Hare was not the Amiga CEO, did he, and why would his card say he was the CEO back in 2003? I don't know who to believe here. I don't think any of this bruhaha would have come about if Hare's cards were accurate and honest. I can't see how one can blame Buck for Hare's questionable self-made business card calling himself Amiga CEO.
What would Neely Gardner do?
DE running on Linux could open a broader market. It could be a good thing for Amiga and the DE developers.
But is it good for the Amiga as a computer? If it pays for hardware development, fine.
I do think it's worthy of note that so far, the PegasOS fleet is closer to being a success than anything else from other companies so far.
Early the next morning we got going. The work group asked what I would like to see. Proving I had no idea what I was talking about, I asked for every post on every board from the November 2000 date of the original agreement. There was a very long pause. One of the guys finally asked if I had any idea how many posts that meant. I guessed, "probably a couple hundred".
Uhhhh. This guy hasn't got a clue about the Amiga, does he?
Greg's posts were always thoughtful, well written and useful. His, "Who is the OEM?" post became the foundation for an entire legal argument
Open source legal strategy? :-)
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I'm more concerned about the customers who were burned over the T-Shirt deal. If the dates are correct, the T-Shirts were still being sold after the acquisition (though not the lifetime membership). This would put KMOS in the precarious position of knowing that another company was using their product to push a fraudulent item, and it wouldn't bode well for them.
Everyone knows I'm using blue's clues, but that doesn't mean my friends on the red-side don't deserve to get what they paid for. IMHO, this is more important than any misunderstanding about a business card.
I'm sorry Wayne; I know the business card issue is something of a sore spot with you. I really didn't want to take away from that, but I am concerned about those friends of mine who bought into the T-Shirt thing.
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Interesting.
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> Read it again Lando, he clearly states he said he was considering joining Amiga..
I think that he actually accepted, or made it known that he was going too. Remember, Bill McEwen testified in tronmans court case that Garry Hare was the CEO. Either Bill was blatantly Lying, or Garry was fully expected to BE the CEO.
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Either Bill was blatantly Lying, or Garry was fully expected to BE the CEO.
Could be, the interview doesn't say really.. Maybe they (Gary and Amiga Inc) to signing a contract when something else happened..
Anyway, like Gary said; why are we still talking about it ? :-)
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Question 53: Is the mere possession of a fake ID (but not the use of one) a crime?
Answer: Yes it is a crime to possess a fake ID. Using the fake I.D. is also a crime and getting caught using it will get you arrested.
The definition of a crime is doing something that is against the law. By holding a fake I.D. you are committing a crime and therefore breaking the law.
The guy outright broke the law and everyone seems to defend him.
Q: Are you the Amiga Inc CEO as stated on this card?
A: Garry says No (he broke the law end of story)
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Well, I have always maintained that the card was a fake.
Although it actually physically exists, it is still a fake. I have never called Wayne a liar, I just always maintained the card was a fake.
If I gave the impression I did, I apologise.
Having said that, we only have one man to thank for causing so much trouble with the original fake story.
No, I don't mean Garry Hare. I mean the man who called the people who supported Hyperion, Morons.
It's sad that it took so long, for the truth to come out, but as Michael Garibaldi said, the Truth does always come out, sooner or later.
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Wayne
It's certainly Bill Buck's fault that "the business card incident" was blown to such proportions, and I will openly admit and apologize for the fact that I was played as a pawn in respect to the card fiasco (though I did have the card for a short while).
Not your fault, you were misused by Bill Buck and what he said about the card which he obtained.
Garry's story rings true. He only printed a few - small scale, hence the poor quality, hence the people that said it was a photoshopped card printed out and then scanned in again! (the ones claiming it was a photoshop straight out were nuts, of course).
Shame on Bill Buck though. He knew that Hare wasn't the CEO of Amiga Inc, and that there was only an option of him becoming that. Yet he decided to play Wayne, and then the whole Amiga community, by claiming this. The whole point was to reduce trust in Amiga Inc, to waste their time having to deny it, and to presumably cover up issues that Genesi were having with hardware and money themselves.
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I don't know all of the answers but something doesn't make sense. I've tried to find out more about KMOS but they seem to be non-existant. No website, no other references to them on the net other than the Amiga.com press release. What kind of company doesn't have a web presence?
Taken from the press release at amiga.com (http://www.amiga.com/corporate/150304-amigaos_sale.shtml) they state KMOS is a corporation, which formed in Deleware.
KMOS, Inc. a State of Delaware licensed corporation develops and distributes enabling technology, software applications and specialty content to the wired and wireless communication market.
If you go to the Delaware Secretary of state site here (https://sos-res.state.de.us/tin/GINameSearch.jsp) and type KMOS into the search engine.
We find out when the corporation was formed:
Incorporation Date / Formation Date: 10/07/2003
(note/disclaimer: I don't know if this is the same KMOS as in the interview so I may be wrong. But it is the only KMOS Inc. registered in Delaware according to the Secratery of State Site)
October 7th, 2003? How can you build up a successful business in just 5 months?
Well, maybe they were a private business until then. This quote casts some doubts (for me) on that.
Garry: Good question. I asked it myself. Corporate documents needed to be filed while I was in Asia. I returned home to find that the Company, that I had agreed to build, was named KMOS. Like many of you, I asked what's a KMOS, what does it mean? I was told it is sort of like Xerox, it doesn't mean anything but with use will become a positive brand. I pointed out that Edsel (an old auto brand) also didn't mean anything and it went bankrupt. I hated the name. I lost.
I'm sure it was a seperate company that asked him to be CEO when they incorporated. Still, there are too many wierd things going on to not really trust KMOS. The interview clears up some stuff and I hope they are legit. The Amiga brand needs a definate and good shot in the arm to boost it up. :-?
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if AInc were a bit more open about their dealings [..] the whole business card thing would have been a total non-issue.
To be fair, Fleecy last year did say that they had approached Garry Hare, but nothing happened in the end. That is open, and it appears to collaborate today's interview.
That leaves the population of ANN and Amiga.org who kept on poking around the business card issue itself that actually made the whole thing into an issue. Wayne has said that he was used by a pawn by a certain individual to get this result. I think the person to blame about making the issue what is it is quite clear.
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Hattig wrote:
Shame on Bill Buck though. He knew that Hare wasn't the CEO of Amiga Inc, and that there was only an option of him becoming that.
To jump to that, you only have the word of two men you don't know. One, Buck, who is known to take an unholy delight in tormenting AInc (not that I blame him), and another, Hare, who you do not know and who has remained totally silent since the purchase of the OS rights *last year*.
Not really a situation that reflects well on either man, and may well be a case of the devil and the deep blue sea.
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Hare admits misrepresents himself at a show by handing out business cards proclaiming him to be Chairman and CEO of Amiga Inc when he wasn't even employed by them.
This is quite an ANN spin on events.
He gave a few cards to people. He explained the current situation to them regarding the CEO-ship.
One card gets into bbrv's hands after a lot of wheedling. bbrv is told by Garry Hare the situation. bbrv holds onto the card for a bit, and then generates the whole business card drama knowing completely the entire truth of the matter beforehand!
Yet you don't blame bbrv?! lol
whose fault would the resulting confusion be? Mine, for handing out cards or the person who takes the cards at face value and posts the news?
The person who didn't verify the details on the card, namely the person who takes the cards at face value. Sadly Wayne was misused and hence the card was misrepresented when he posted about it all that time ago.
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Having said that, we only have one man to thank for causing so much trouble with the original fake story.
No, I don't mean Garry Hare. I mean the man who called the people who supported Hyperion, Morons.
Interesting. You appear to condone the attempted deception involved in creating a fake card, but condemn those who draw conclusions from the existence of said card?
The reality is that those who were adamant the card was a fake - and even Amiga Inc employees were coy about making such a definitive statement at the time - made no bones about who they thought faked the card: Genesi employees or their supporters.
No explanation was given as to why - if the card was fake - did Amiga Inc not publicly criticise Mr Hare for issuing it? Why did they not confirm that the card was issued by Mr Hare, that it was invalid, and that they addressed the matter with Mr Hare and made sure it would not be repeated? No such statement was made despite Amiga Inc being given the express invitation to place the blame squarely where it belonged and condemn the issuer of the 'fake' card. Instead we had only suggestions and innuendo designed to put the blame for the incident on the Blue side, who admittedly made the most of the opportunity, but did not cause it.
As far as I'm concerned, I still regard KMOS with extreme suspicion despite this interview. Let's face it, when Amiga Inc bought the rights from Gateway, not that many people felt negative about that transaction, but look where is got us, so we all know the limited value of positive early interviews.
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@KennyR
Not really a situation that reflects well on either man, and may well be a case of the devil and the deep blue sea.
Absolutely agreed. There is little doubt Buck made the most of the situation - and yes, he used Wayne for best effect - but equally there is little doubt that there is absolutely no excuse for handing out business cards with fraudulent information or making court declarations in anticipation of events that never happen. Garry Hare handed out cards that we are now told were essentially fakes. This is VERY unprofessional. Bill McEwen declared in court that he was NOT CEO of Amiga Inc. That was a lie. Neither can be explained away by saying that some form of deal was in the offing, but then fell through.
It's quite typical to see certain individuals being totally blinkered when it comes to criticising those they regard as "on their side", even in the face of freely admitted wrongdoings.
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I don't think that there was any deception regarding the business card. The intent at the time was for Garry Hare to become CEO. The few people that got business cards directly were told that this was pending, not finalised. For whatever reason, it didn't actually happen.
Amiga Inc made it quite clear many times last year that Bill McEwan was CEO. That is all they had to say! It shows that the information on the cards is incorrect.
Put the blame on the person who misrepresented the business card to the community. Who claimed that it was the real state of play. Who abused everyone on ANN and here in the end.
The 'faking' of the card in my opinion is how it was represented by Bill Buck. The card captures a moment in time where the information on it was about to become true, pending anything that came up. Something came up, Hare didn't use any more of those cards. He didn't bet on a card getting to Bill Buck's hands, and even then and telling Bill Buck that the information was incorrect that Bill Buck would then claim on ANN and Amiga.org that the information on it was true, and then the resultant loss of trust against Amiga Inc, and the people that gave up on Amiga Inc because of that, etc.
Anyway, lets talk about other things in the interview. All those people that claimed that Amiga Inc, Bill McEwen, Fleecy were shareholders in KMOS - even stating it as fact, and that KMOS was an IP offloading company. Not a peep about the fact that isn't the case eh? Silence! It's deafening.
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@all
Hmm, suddenly the winds have changed?? It seems to me like it's not a very stable community at all, the Amiga one, but everyone is on their toes, ready to shift side, at any time?
This is not an accusation, just an observation. I too found Gary to be a pretty decent and nice guy, from the interview. But it's pretty surprising to see that just a few comments can make a whole community shift?? Unstable, to say the least.
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So the card WAS a fake and the strong possibility is that either Garry himself or the person producing the short run of cards used a layered tool like Photoshop to run them off.
I did accuse Wayne and A.org of conspiring in this affair - and for that I apologise unreservedly.
It was great fun while it lasted though - eh? :lol:
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Incorrect information on a Business Card is not Fraudulent! The intent was not to defraud anyone. Hence it isn't a fraud.
Still waiting for someone to give me a link to the court document where Bill McEwan says he isn't CEO though. People are all too willing to make these claims, but very reluctant to prove them.
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Wayne,
Just get some aluminum foil and make a hat. Once you put it on it will keep out all the mind control waves and psychic energies form the community.
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@KennyR
"Trust NoOne!"
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Well, finally someone who might actually be able to do something with Amiga OS. I just hope it's the RIGHT THING, whatever that is.
I just might take him up on the fake business card for t-shirt deal! :-D
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Very interesting, I thought.
Wasn't there a posting about The Chinese government effectively banning the monolpoly of certain OS's. As a certain company (Micro$oft) seems to have a stanglehold on most countries. Is it posible that Garry may have found a market for Amiga.
The other thing that he continued to mention was the development of the Asian markets. Asia is so far behind, technologically speaking, that Amiga would be the perfect brand to push forward, especially following it's success in the west.
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Incorrect information on a Business Card is not Fraudulent! The intent was not to defraud anyone. Hence it isn't a fraud.
It amounts to impersonation of a company official, which may not be fraudulent but is certainly illegal.
As for the intent behind the issuing of the cards, that remains a matter of debate until the persons who received those cards come out and verify Mr Hare's claim that he fully explained the situation to them.
Either way, irrespective of whether he did or did not explain it, handing out such cards was unprofessional in the extreme, as they contained untrue information. That he may have been considering a position with Amiga Inc at the time is no excuse.
You'd all be flaying Bill Buck alive if he did something like that, so why are you so prepared to defend Hare's actions?
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@bhogget:
Who`s going to sue Mr Hare then? Drop the issue, it`s not an issue at all.
Can`t believe all the uprising about this at all :-?
All you nitpickers makes a mountain of a small rock.
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and that KMOS was an IP offloading company. Not a peep about the fact that isn't the case eh? Silence! It's deafening.
Silence?
Absolutely not. I see nothing at all to dissuade me from my belief that the KMOS/Itec AmigaOS deal is nothing more than IP laundering. None of the questions regarding WHY it was first bought by Itec then KMOS have been answered, or what value was put on the IP, or what the actual plans for it were. Nor has an explanation been given for the many supposed months of secrecy, or why Amiga Inc employees were allowed to represent themselves as people with control over the future development of AmigaOS4.
In short, there is nothing to indicate that this is not primarily an attempt to divorce AmigaOS from the liabilities of Amiga Inc.
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@restore2003
As I said on ANN: "If a tree falls in the forest but there is no one to hear it, does it make no noise?"
It is an issue, because it reflects (no pun intended) on the character and honesty of Mr Hare and consequently that of the new owners of AmigaOS.
We had enough half-truths and dissembling from Fleecy and Co. Are you now prepared to swallow more of the same?
Let all the facts come out, properly verified as such. Then - and only then - will people be in a legitimate position to pledge their support or not.
Why am I not surprised that those who are most adamant that this is a trivial matter are the same ones who would mount a huge campaign to "expose" Bill Buck if he was guilty of the same. What is trivial from one side would be inexcusable from the opposition, isn't that right?
Wake up, drop the emotional investment and take a step back before considering which are facts, which are claims, and what does and does not make sense in the cold light of a business environment.
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It amounts to impersonation of a company official, which may not be fraudulent but is certainly illegal.
Well go and sue him then for doing it.
Do you see Amiga Inc. complaining? No. They'd be the ones who would have to complain. If BBRV claimed to be CEO of Amiga Inc, I'm sure they would complain about his impersonation! They haven't complained about Garry Hare's mistake because it was a mistake.
THE WHOLE THING IS A NON-ISSUE.
If the blue camp want to take it further, then fine. Take him to court to get him to prove that what he said is true, and get the people to whom he gave cards to to collaborate his story.
Until then, YOU have no right or need to know.
It is down to Garry Hare's word against Bill Buck's. I know who I certainly don't believe out of these two!
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As I said. The winds have changed. Suddenly it's obvious that we ALL have something in common. The future of the Amiga platform.
Let's forget what has been. Let's focus on the new things to come. Let's hope that Garry is as good to the Amiga as his interview is to this commutity!! Because if he aint;) We'll all be hard judges, right;)
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@Hattig
Until then, YOU have no right or need to know.
Says who?
I have the exclusive right to decide what I need to know or not, not you. I may not be able to extract information others are not prepared to divulge, but that being the case I have every right to draw my conclusions on the basis of the information I do have, and no one, specially you, is in a position to prevent me.
It is down to Garry Hare's word against Bill Buck's. I know who I certainly don't believe out of these two!
So? I don't believe either. Are you saying your belief carries more weight than mine? What makes you superior, hmmm?
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I'm glad that whole coupon/t-shirt thing was covered. One problem with his offer of a trade of a business card for the coupon is that nobody even got a coupon, so even if they wanted to do the trade, they couldn't. :-( But, I guess technically, it wasn't a coupon for a t-shirt, so the terms of the trade would need to be renegotiated. :-)
About the business card. I was never fully convinced it was authentic, and so didn't believe McEwen had been replaced. I will now concede it's authenticalness :-), but will also be content with knowing I was at least half right about something. :elvis:
Garry seems goods beans. I now have much less trepidation about the recent situation. Especially since he said that thing about honoring the coupons even though he isn't legally obliged to do so. That's just good beans. Everyone have a large coffee! :pint: ...and dance like a banana if ya feel like it! :banana: teeheehee!
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Absolutely not. I see nothing at all to dissuade me from my belief that the KMOS/Itec AmigaOS deal is nothing more than IP laundering. None of the questions regarding WHY it was first bought by Itec then KMOS have been answered, or what value was put on the IP, or what the actual plans for it were. Nor has an explanation been given for the many supposed months of secrecy, or why Amiga Inc employees were allowed to represent themselves as people with control over the future development of AmigaOS4.
In short, there is nothing to indicate that this is not primarily an attempt to divorce AmigaOS from the liabilities of Amiga Inc.
Now I know this does not directly answer your questions, but Garry did explain who Itec is in relation to Amiga, as quoted here:
Garry: Itec has been an investor in Amiga since the purchase of the assets from Gateway. It remains an investor today. Itec is also the Senior (first place) Secured Creditor of Amiga Inc. KMOS purchased the OS asset from Itec. There is no formal relationship between the companies (KMOS and Itec). I am not involved in Itec in any way.
Now it is obvious from this that Itec was not simply a company thought of to "save the IP", since they were investors from the beginning. As Garry states, they are Amiga's "Senior (first place) Secured Creditor". Not being a corporate attorney and not owning a corporation I can only guess what this means, but I imagine I can make a good guess just by paralleling it with my life. I have a primary secured creditor on my house loan, if I go bankrupt, they are the first ones who get money from the bankruptcy sale of my house, if there is any money left, my other creditors, whomever they may be (credit cards, non-secured personal loans, etc.) will get dibs on the cash.
I would imagine the same is true for business, although probably much more complex. I imagine that if Itec was the "Senior Secured Creditor", they probably get first dibs on Amiga Inc's assets over everyone else (employees, airborne, etc.). Therefore it may be perfectly legal for Itec to claim ownership of Amiga OS in april and yet Bill McEwen still state that it is one of Amiga Incs IP. Since Itec are Amiga Incs primary secured creditor, it may also be perfectly legal for them to sell it to KMOS in October. Perhaps the sale of Amiga OS and Amiga Inc. concentrating on DE was a requirement for Itec to supply more funding. However, this is something that we will probably never know and it is really none of our business. That is between Amiga, Itec, KMOS and the Federal Government. If the Feds say they have not broken any laws, then they have not. We have no choice but to wait and see, the only way it becomes our business is if the courts make a public ruling stating illegal activities occurred. (Even then it is really none of our business, just an interesting read for us average Joes and a means for some to prove their conspiracy theories accurate.)
Again, to clarify, I am not a corporate lawyer nor do I own a corporation, therefore, this is all speculation. I could be wrong, and if there is a corporate lawyer out there who could validate/invalidate any of my speculation, that would be much appricated. :-)
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Poster: Paul_Gadd Posted: 2004/3/26 10:46:03
Quote:
Question 53: Is the mere possession of a fake ID (but not the use of one) a crime?
Answer: Yes it is a crime to possess a fake ID. Using the fake I.D. is also a crime and getting caught using it will get you arrested.
The definition of a crime is doing something that is against the law. By holding a fake I.D. you are committing a crime and therefore breaking the law.
The guy outright broke the law and everyone seems to defend him.
Q: Are you the Amiga Inc CEO as stated on this card?
A: Garry says No (he broke the law end of story)
A business card isn't legal ID in the United States. I certainly hope it isn't in other countries either. No law broken here. It was possibly a minor ethical transgression.
Andrew
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@Paul Gadd
Question 53: Is the mere possession of a fake ID (but not the use of one) a crime?
Answer: Yes it is a crime to possess a fake ID. Using the fake I.D. is also a crime and getting caught using it will get you arrested.
A business card doesn't constitute a legal ID card. Not in a single place in the world, to my knowledge. You can't walk into a police station and be identified with a friggin' business card. Don't confuse the two, you'll just make a fool out of yourself.
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Well having been out of the community for so long I have not been as disappointed or soured on everything as most, so this interview was quite good to me. I like the guy as a person based on his very factual answers and can appreciate why in this environment today they would have kept a lot of this secret. Announcing anything in the tech industry as a whole before there is anything to back it up has become a VERY bad trend and one that ruins names and people. Amiga has had this happen more times than anyone can count so anyone that follows this community should be able to appreciate that. I haven't been back in for very long and even I have learned.
I left the interview with a positive feeling, so now it's time to just wait and see. I feel after reading a lot of the history of Amiga while being armed with a large amount of hindsight that this is probably one of the best interviews I've seen with anyone related to post Commodore Amiga. It answers some very tired issues and doesn't promise the world. Best of all, it doesn't throw anyone to the sharks either.
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@SirLancelotDuLac
You have a good point there, but the questions still remain. You see, Itec's position does not explain why they would acquire AmigaOS, particularly at that time, or why no announcement to the effect of the sale was ever made at the time. If Itec is Amiga's Senior Secured Creditor, then they would get first dibs in case of bankrupcy anyway, so there would be no need to acquire the assets in advance.
Also, the description of KMOS as a successful company etc. is a bit suspect considering their formation date and what appears to be a complete blank when it comes to track record, partnerships or other products.
Of course, my impression that we are looking at IP laundering is purely speculation on my part - given what evidence is available to me - but while it is true that the Feds have not found anything to complain about, it is equally true that they haven't looked.
Sooner or later Amiga Inc will go to the wall, and then I assume there will be an investigation in the deals carried out for a set period prior to bankruptcy. I don't know about the US, but in the UK when a company goes into administration there is a compulsory investigation into its dealing for the three previous years, with all persons who held a directorial post over that period being obliged to make themselves available to the investigation. Any of the directors found to have knowingly acted against the interests of the company can be declared "unfit to hold a directorship" (or something to that effect) and barred from holding such a position in future. Presumably any such "bad" deal would also be investigated to check that it was legal. I expect something similar would be in effect in the US.
Now, looking at the Itec deal, that could be seen as suspect, because it transfers assets to one creditor therefore reducing payments to others. Even as Senior Secured Creditor, it is not clear if Itec are the sole creditor to hold that position, or if that entitles them to transfer assets to themselves without the agreement of the other creditors prior to bankruptcy proceedings.
The other potential motive involves the fairly reliable rumour that Ben Hermans of Hyperion was instrumental in securing Amiga Inc's original capital investment. Now, with Itec being original investors, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that there may be a connection between Mr Hermans and Itec. Since Hyperion have a strong motive for divorcing AmigaOS from the trouble of Amiga Inc, I don't think I need spell out the possible conspiracy theories.
Now, with KMOS having no trading record and there being no evidence of considerable amounts of money having changed hands, one cannot help but wonder if this isn't just another step in distancing the IP from the Amiga company. (In fact, didn't the amiga.com announcemnt state that KMOS acquired Itec? Mr Hare says there is no formal relationship between KMOS and Itec. One of them would seem to be wrong...)
Yes, it's all just a conspiracy theory, but they sometimes turn out to be right. Certainly it is not a scenario that can be dsicounted out of hand without more evidence than is available to us now.
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Hey KennyR,
Just try www.google.com and search for "BBRV idiot". I think you'll find atleast one instance.
Bill "tekmage" Borsari
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"Asia is so far behind, technologically speaking"
In my trips to Japan and to South Korea I would say neither of those are very behind, in fact they are someway ahead of the USA. But then Asia is a large place :)
Bill "tekmage" Borsari
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Ya know, someone should fill Garry in on the history of Ford Motors sometime. The Edsel was named after Edsel Ford, Henry Ford's son and the founder of Lincoln Motorcars.
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"A business card doesn't constitute a legal ID card. Not in a single place in the world, to my knowledge. You can't walk into a police station and be identified with a friggin' business card. Don't confuse the two, you'll just make a fool out of yourself."
True, but representing yourself as the CEO of a corporation is a crime. I, however, don't believe that actually happened. I strongly suspect he was CEO for an instant, and things changed.
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Hello,
There is a serious credibility problem with Garry Hare. If you want to attract Investors, don't lie or try to fool them with fake identity.
Amiga Inc, KMOS are IT companies, therefore website IS IMPORTANT.
Perhaps Garry Hare can fool investors for 1 week by quoting delay in website update, but after 1 week NOBODY would believe him.
Does Garry Hare know how to search Internet using Google or other search engines?
What Amiga Inc really need (at that time) is a good CFO and financial plan/ strategy to rescue the company and convince investors, NOT by just changing the CEO.
New CEO may help if the new CEO is from a powerful financial group (who buy Amiga Inc and pay alll debt), but such CEO did not need any new Investors.
When the whole fake card blow up, it's better for Garry Hare and Amiga Inc to make joint statement and post the explanation on Amiga Inc website.
>KMOS - Name
It's strange that a CEO CANNOT EXPLAIN the meaning of the name of his own company. Can he change the name to something else or ask the person who coined / created the name? Is he IN CONTROL at the creation of the company?
BTW XEROX is from Xerography (see dictionary).
EDSEL came from "Excel".
>Future - Asia
If Garry Hare / KMOS can port Classic or new AmigaOS to V-Dragon CPU with Transmeta 68K code morphing, it will be a great news.
>Bill McEwen statements in the court (under oath)
1. Amiga Inc is the owner of AmigaOS IP.
(August 2003). Why ITEC or KMOS did not inform the judge about transfer of IP ownership?
2. I am not the CEO of Amiga Inc
(One of the labour case). Who is the REAL Amiga Inc CEO at that time? Can Garry Hare explain this matter? Is there any court documents about this statement?
>Fleecy Q&A.
Why Garry Hare/Kmos or ITEC did not stop Fleecy Moss from making statements/promise about the future of AmigaOS, when Moss/Amiga Inc is no longer the owner? Does Garry Hare/KMOS approve and still follow Fleecy Moss plan for future AmigaOS?
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True, but representing yourself as the CEO of a corporation is a crime. I, however, don't believe that actually happened. I strongly suspect he was CEO for an instant, and things changed.
That's not the case here iirc, I can go around saying I'm the CEO of blahblah, and unless blahblah charges me for impersonation, nothing will happen. It's not illegal if they don't mind, so to speak.
I remember Amiga Inc was quite enthusiastic about the possibility about having Garry Hare aboard their team.. so I doubt they would mind a tiny bit, and perhaps he would have joined.. but that's speculation.
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That's not the case here iirc, I can go around saying I'm the CEO of blahblah, and unless blahblah charges me for impersonation, nothing will happen. It's not illegal if they don't mind, so to speak.
Not true. Whether something is legal or not does not depend on whether the target for the impersonation minds or not. Impersonating the CEO of a company is no more legal than impersonating a police officer or a doctor.
Don't confuse being legal with lack of prosecution. A lot of minor but nevertheless illegal acts go unpunished every day because they are often not worth prosecuting, but that does not make them legal or the perpetrators innocent.
I suspect T_Bone might be right and Hare did genuinely consider himself CEO when he produced and handed out the cards. However, I also suspect that what happened next is so murky that Hare and Amiga Inc would rather explain it away with some vague misdemeanour rather than admit the truth.
Just how much of this Buck knew about is questionable. There is no proof (except Hare's word) that Buck knew about it all in advance, OTOH I doubt that knowing about it would have stopped Mr Buck anyway.
Trust Hare, McEwen, Buck, Moss & co.? I think I'd rather roast my balls over a slow fire. I see no evidence of an honest man amongst them.
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handing out a card does not constitute impersonation either. if that were the case, it would be illegal to give out cards which held another name than your own.
You, Bill Hoggett, seem to judge him before hand, not even knowing what happened. Innocent until proven guilty? Doesn't look like it.
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@reflect
It's not Bill H's fault that this confusion exists, it's Garry's fault. The card said "Garry Hare, CEO Amiga inc." and handing out those cards IS representing yourself as CEO of Amiga Inc.
Add to that that Bill Mcewen even testified to it in court.
Like i said, I believe he wasn't misrepresenting himself, I believe he was anticipating being CEO, and I strongly suspect he held that position for at least an instant.
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Funny. Garry Hare business card is proven to be real. Not that it is news for us but... Oh well, I join to KennyR party: loons loons loons....
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Trust Hare, McEwen, Buck, Moss & co.? I think I'd rather roast my balls over a slow fire. I see no evidence of an honest man amongst them.
:roflmao:
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"The other potential motive involves the fairly reliable rumour that Ben Hermans of Hyperion was instrumental in securing Amiga Inc's original capital investment."
This categorically untrue.
Quite frankly Bill, it's time for you to start making your own way in life.
What I am seeing is a lot of criticism on people like Garry Hare with proven track records outside the Amiga community.
What have YOU ever accomplished?
What degrees do you hold?
What positions have you held?
What job are you in now?
Being a pundit spreading nonsense on Amiga related sites is a rather poor substitute for a career.
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Just try www.google.com and search for "BBRV idiot". I think you'll find atleast one instance.
idoits (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=BBRV+idiot&btnG=Google+Search)
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> What positions have you held?
> What job are you in now?
Do business cards count?
:-)
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> Not true. Whether something is legal or not does
> not depend on whether the target for the
> impersonation minds or not. Impersonating the
> CEO of a company is no more legal than
> impersonating a police officer or a doctor.
Right now, if I were Rory Bremner, I'd be quaking in my boots ;-)
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This categorically untrue.
OK. The rumour comes from someone who has always passed himself off as an ardent Amiga Inc supporter with close ties to McEwen and Co., so I had no reason to doubt him.
You, I have every reason to doubt, but let's say I accept your word on this occasion.
Quite frankly Bill, it's time for you to start making your own way in life.
Frankly, my life is none of your business and I'm not trying to sell you anything either, so kindly butt out!
What I am seeing is a lot of criticism on people like Garry Hare with proven track records outside the Amiga community.
I'm not questioning his past track record. I'm questioning his current involvement.
What have YOU ever accomplished?
What degrees do you hold?
What positions have you held?
What job are you in now?
Being a pundit spreading nonsense on Amiga related sites is a rather poor substitute for a career.
It's not a career. It's a hobby. Irritating pompous arrogant individuals who think they own the community and resort offensive remarks is a bonus.
:-D
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Right now, if I were Rory Bremner, I'd be quaking in my boots.
LOL! :lol:
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You, Bill Hoggett, seem to judge him before hand, not even knowing what happened. Innocent until proven guilty? Doesn't look like it.
Sorry, I've exhausted all the "good faith" and "benefit of the doubt" when it comes to things Amiga. After more than a decade of ****, can you blame me?
If I thought the explanations were comprehensive and entirely credible, I'd have said nothing and waited. But the stories are incomplete, and there is conflicting evidence everywhere, so I stay suspicious. Frankly, if you don't like it, bite me! :-D
BTW, does anyone know who this naughty Australian ex-Amiga employee is supposed to be? I didn't even know Amiga Inc had Australian employees involved with classic AmigaOS development, never mind someone who sold IP for profit. (There was a suggestion on the Bunny, but that was so silly I think I'd better discount it before I do Mr Hare an injustice) :-P
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{rant alert} -- don't read below if you're squeamish.
That's it.... I'm done. I'm out... I'm not playing any more....
Ya know? Watching all this is like watching two fat kids fight over a dry-rotted basketball. You don't really want to watch either fat kid play basketball, but the fight's kinda amusing.
In this case -- from transcripts and all other accounts -- both parties have acted very much like children, both have lied in court (or at the very least been a little creative with the truth), and I honestly don't really care any more which "company" "wins" the lawsuit lotto for the remains of the long-dead horse. This has become a lawsuit of egos, and stupidity nothing more.
Who would have thought that this {bleep} between now at least three questionably honorable companies would be even more attractive as a past time than the Amiga computer itself ever was?
After re-reading the interview, comparing facts and dates from ALL the available documentation, then assimilating it all, I can safely say that the only thing they've accomplished with any success is that a great number of people here have lost interest in EITHER solution.
So, with that being said, I digress from commenting further. Someone wake me up when it's time to turn out the lights and go home. You can find me at http://spookychick.com hanging out with the wife and a few friends, talking about horrible things.
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Nice interview by the way. Some things I'd like to write about:
Mr Hare talked about new "strategic partners" etc. I hope this is good for Amiga in general and not some KMOS telecommunication industry business... (Although KMOS is a company, and companies are about money whatever the source might be).
I also really liked the way he addressed the developers issue/support. With no s/w a platform is dead.
On the other hand, the hardware is still the same it was a couple of years before. Nothing bad with that but the prices are high as if it was the cuting edge h/w on the IT sector... Even with a little market you cannot expect to counterbalance the expenses by selling at higher prices! A 20-30% higher prices over the corresponding present solutions on the sector might be tolerable, but over that, its just absurd. This is shame, and he should realise that there must be alternatives, and possibly following the technology advancement by keeping the pace (that's where the "strategic partnerships" count!;-)).
That's all from an amiga user's point of view. The rest is just telenovelas scripting :-D
________
Marijuana Hemp (http://marijuanahemp.com)
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@T_Bone
Do business cards count?
:lol:
What's really funny is that Mr Hermans' little attempt at belittling my opinions is almost a carbon copy of Mr Buck's. I always thought the two were much more similar than they'd like to admit.
;-)
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Hey Wayne, not a bad idea.
Altho I'd replace the basketball with a ripped speedo.
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I am probably wrong, but quite a few people seem to have lost any interest in the 'Amiga' and only hang around to pick at the corpse and score a few points.
Shame :-(
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I am probably wrong, but quite a few people seem to have lost any interest in the 'Amiga' and only hang around to pick at the corpse and score a few points.
Less of a case of losing interest and more of a case of losing faith and hope. One can only hang around waiting for that which never arrives for so long.
The interest is rapidly turning more into morbid fascination. It's like watching a bad wreck and wondering how many more ways the victim will find to hurt themselves.
We may be seeing a change in the cast, but they're still acting from the same script.
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@bhoggett
Think they're going to go after the Mouse Trap's record?
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Impersonation huh? it is impersonation if he said he was CEO, or said nothing. But he said he was not yet CEO of AMiga Inc and is thereby not impersonating a CEO. That is the "evidence" we have.Now so many people choose to ignore this "evidence" saying its not reliable, and then go on about waiting for other "evidence" to present itself.If you are going to use the "evidence" line then ALL evidence must be considered true and correct until proven otherwise.
I think that his offer to take up the burden of honouring the coupons a much greater telling of the character of the man than this rubbish over a business card.
With all the evidence available there is nothing to put doubt on what Gary Hare has said, therefore on the evidence we have available we must conclude that what Gary Hare has said is the truth.
There is no evidence either of IP laundering,and lack of any evidence to the contrary is not evidence in and of itself.
Quite simply there is not enough evidence available to prove anything other than what Has been claimed by Mr Hare so all this wasted text is nothing more than stirring up trouble.
It would be alot more conststructive no say nothing until such evidence comes to light, and/or such law officials that are responsible for such thing tell us otherwise.
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Ya know? Watching all this is like watching two fat kids fight over a dry-rotted basketball. You don't really want to watch either fat kid play basketball, but the fight's kinda amusing.
didn't I see that on a South Park episode???:roflmao:
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Does Garry Hare know how to search Internet using Google or other search engines?
You do realize that you are talking about a person that has just stated he's turned in to a SUIT in the last decade and carries a Mac Laptop to meeting for the look. He's a Business Man, not even close to being Joe Hacker CEO.
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Trust Hare, McEwen, Buck, Moss & co.? I think I'd rather roast my balls over a slow fire. I see no evidence of an honest man amongst them.
"Chestnut roasting over an open fire, Jack Frost nipping at your nose..."
Sorry, couldn't help it. I just read that and now I can't get the damn song out of my head. Thought I'd share.
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not even close to being Joe Hacker CEO
at least he admits it - instead of lying!
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Being a pundit spreading nonsense on Amiga related sites is a rather poor substitute for a career
Makes an even worse hobby.
How about we talk about something other than the "Riddle of the Card"?
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You can find me at http://spookychick.com hanging out with the wife and a few friends, talking about horrible things.
I though that's what was happening here. :-?
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@bhoggett
It's a nice change up. This addition of the Outsider character. I hope it's just not a sweeps gimick!
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Reflect: A business card doesn't constitute a legal ID card
My feelings exactly. Hare made a mistake, passing out a prototype card saying, "hey, lookit!" Some people just got over-excited and jumped to conclusions. That happens a lot with Amiga. An error, but saying it is fraud or criminal is a stretch. Still, it doesn't make much sense of McEwen saying in court that he was NOT CEO, as T_Bone points out (I don't follow court drama, so I don't know the truth to that). Given how Amiga, Inc. has handled things since day one, I wouldn't be surprised if McEwen was taking advantage of the situation. I'll only care if Amiga actually releases something, and the courts are still sniffing about and Amiga people are still waiting for their "free" stuff.
Frankly, I'm just sick of the business card issue. There's not a doubt that Hare made a mistake, and he'll have to live with it. At least we have his side of the story, now.
I still intend to bash Amiga, Inc. about the coupons, though. That will never cease to be fun. At least it's amusing to know I (technically) already own OS4, even if I don't have hardware on which to run it. ;-)
Amiga Inc, KMOS are IT companies, therefore website IS IMPORTANT.
When it's time... when it's time.
Because, you know, I thought websites were about content, not linking to other sites.
He's a Business Man, not even close to being Joe Hacker CEO.
Leave the hacking to those who can hack it. One only hopes that a true manager steps out of the way and gives his team credit for intelligence now and then. Seeing how Mehdi Ali is now my dad's boss (no, really), the company is in serious financial trouble, and he might well lose his job before the year is out, I'll be pleased to see *any* CEO in charge of Amiga technology that knows buisiness but lets engineers do their work in peace.
I don't know what people hate about suits, anyway. I love to dress up when going to work!
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Funny how some people learnt absolutly NOTHING over the past 10 years ....
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@Iondeluxe
"Impersonation huh? it is impersonation if he said he was CEO, or said nothing. But he said he was not yet CEO of AMiga Inc and is thereby not impersonating a CEO. That is the "evidence" we have.Now so many people choose to ignore this "evidence" saying its not reliable,"(snip)
it's not reliable... We have heresay saying "I wasn't CEO" and then we have sworn testimony in federal court saying "Garry Hare is CEO"
When you have a contradiction of this nature, simple word of mouth is not reliable. Frankly, with the information available, one would be a fool to be certain either way. That's a lesson that should have been learned with the business cards themselves, and Amiga Inc's attempt to discredit them.
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Glad to see the card Issue put to rest.
Good interview. :-D
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I have no problem with you venting your underresearched opinions although I disagree with most of them.
I do take issue with you presenting pure speculation as near fact.
Let's take that last example of yours, the claim that Ben Hermans would have helped with raising the funding for Amiga.
That claim is total nonsense and anybody with a grain of intelligence would understand that Hyperion would have acquired the Amiga assets in that case, not Amino.
I apologise for interjecting a note of logic here.
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You mean from incidents like the Viscorp fiasco?
Yes, indeed.
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Very nice reading in my opinion.
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HyperionMP wrote:
You mean from incidents like the Viscorp fiasco?
Way to deflect, Ben. Although you did forget to criticise the poster's intelligence/knowledge that time. You're slipping.
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@Ben
That would just be one minor incident in the long line from the
C=-UK-buyout-fiasko to the we_will_do_OS4_in_a_few_months_fiasko ...
And the lesson that was to be lear6ned is:
Words are cheap, so don't trust anybody who tries to tell you the
future is so bright, but refuses to actually tell you how to do it.
Especially when that someone takes >1000 word to basicly say nothing.
Allways expect the product to stay the way it is right now. You may
hhope for updates, but you should never pút yourself in
a position where you have to rely on those updates to make your
investment worthwhile.
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Hare's chronic usage of first name's is annoying. Instead of saying "Bob" why can't he say "Bob Public, chairman of Company XYZ". Not all of us know who is contact are. yeesh.
As usual, the good stuff needs no comment, so I'll respond to the things that concern me.
After Amiga's first filing, I received a call from the CEO of, as far as I could tell, a Company completely unrelated to the Amiga/Thendic dispute. He was very upset that he didn't get to file a Declaration. I explained that his Company wasn't involved in this dispute. He said, "so what", and offered to pay part of the legal costs. Interesting.
Well that's nice to tweak us and then not tell us any more. :-(
I like Amiga's DE product and, particularly their distribution agreement with Microsoft and, I trust, others. Given my content background it is a natural interest. But I am focused on the requirements of a specific customer.
MS? Ick. You get too close and they Borg you. Anyway who is thie specific customer? i ask because he didn't say SQUAT about the ex-Amigans who want a modernized Amiga.
Really, I think it bites that there's even an issue about the PegasOS computer. If the AmigaOS4.0 runs on it, great! No license should be required. This is as insane as the USPO allowing software methods to be patented by software companies (like the guy with the patent on using the XOR logic function to do reverse video for cursors, etc.). Corporations and lawyers are making a mockery of the common sense that was supposedly once the bedrock of innovation.
One of the features that attracted us to the Amiga OS in the first place is that, by definition, it is cross-platform. Improvement in any one market should improve the others, including the desktop. If the same application played across all platforms and devices, so much the better.
Uhhh, does this guy even know what the Amiga is, or what the Amiga OS is? It was converted to mostly C by 1990 (with notably slowdowns) and here it is 2004 and we still don't have it ported. C being portable or even easily ported has always been a glib claim. Cross assemblers and transassemblers, that's the way to go.
Hey whatever happend with that Chinese Lotus Amiga?
A while back I was in China talking with one of the ministers concerned with economic development
How about asking about human rights while you're there? Just asking. :-)
I've never owned an Amiga Computer and, as far as I can remember, never touched an Amiga keyboard.
Freaking wonderful. He's an unwashed heathen? At least Fleecy had an Amiga, albeit belatedly and he was just a software guy.
Its a free country - at least mine was until a few years ago.
OK, well at least we're on board with the Bush and Ashcroft thing.
I know many of you reading this might consider buying a computer due to the operating system installed.
Some of us care most about novel hardware. Then comes the good OS. A good OS on merely-adequate hardware is a waste of effort.
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"Sorry, I've exhausted all the "good faith" and "benefit of the doubt" when it comes to things Amiga. After more than a decade of ****, can you blame me?"
Actually, I think so. There's no reason to leave civilized behaviour behind. Even if your words are not categorically uncivilized the semantics are.
Of course you are not the only one as most have or will lose their temper at some point. That doesn't really make it acceptable though.
Some of the people who go ballistic in one way or the other seem to have lost their mind to outsiders. I guess only other Amigans will have any way of understanding them - even if they don't sympathize with them.
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We have heresay saying "I wasn't CEO"
Its not hearsay when it comes from the source.
and then we have sworn testimony in federal court saying "Garry Hare is CEO
I have not seen this, can you provide a link?
and Amiga Inc's attempt to discredit them.
Amiga Inc never tried to confirm or deny that the credit card was legit. They only said Bill McEwen was CEO and no more.
Frankly, with the information available, one would be a fool to be certain either way
I agree, if you read my post carefully I have said we do not have enough "evidence" to prove anything.
It really amazes me that whenever anyone says anything in this community, like this interview, it is attacked, rediculed and flamed so hard and in so short a time.
Its time people started worrying about themselves thier choices and thier platform rather than trying to burn others down. Each side has plenty of its own stuff to worry about thats for sure.
It's high time we became constructive rather than destructive. Try it guys, you might even like it :-o
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@Trezzer
There are people who regard anyone who dares speak their mind, or makes the suggestion that someone is not telling the truth, as uncivilised.
Whatever. If saying "I don't trust these people's motives" is uncivilised, so be it.
As for various individuals, since they show no respect, I see little reason to give them any in return. I think the debate here has stayed civilised and largely flame free.
If you want to be fawning to this new guy so that he'll like you, be my guest. As far as I'm concerned he has to earn the respect and the trust of the rest of the community, and he has to do it with actions, not past reputation.
There are many unanswered questions, and many unexplained and conflicting factors about this whole business. Despite the long interview, none of those things were answered. There are two ways to do business: transparently and covertly. Many think that being secretive and saying nothing at all is "professional". Well, it is in fact no more professional than being transparent about your dealings, and secrecy engenders far less trust than transparency does.
Is it uncilivilised to suggest that this is most likely an IP laundering exercise? No, I think it is just being realistic.
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@Paul_Gadd
Once I gave a business card that said that I was a Senior Design Engineer while I already was a Specialist. What is the law that I broke?
btw. I think many people did not even read the interview but still they post comments.
IMO: The interview gave load of good explanations and some not that good. In the end, it seems that he might be the most sane manager of all Amiga related companies. (Nothing to be too proud, though. ;) )
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Guys?
This is rediculous. He might have been a little naive as to the extent of paranoia in this community, but no *law* was broken by Garry Hare handing out a falsified business card, regardless of the information contained therein. If there was, please define it for me here, in United States law so that I might better research this issue.
Wayne
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Impersonation huh? it is impersonation if he said he was CEO, or said nothing. But he said he was not yet CEO of AMiga Inc and is thereby not impersonating a CEO. That is the "evidence" we have.
It's interesting, how the very same persons who took as FACT that Bill Buck forged the card, now, as it turns out to be genuine take it as FACT, that GH explained to each person he handed the cards out that it's not real.
The only FACT we have that GH produced cards which contain false information. Everything else is hearsay, and we are unable to check.
I know, it's a custom to bend the reality until we can blame everything Bill Buck for on one side, and another custom to bend it so much that everything can be blamed on the red side.
How come the closest supporters of Amiga Inc shouted and suggested loudest that the card is a forgery made up by Bill Buck? The very same, that tell us now the card was indeed genuine, but all is still Bill Bucks fault. *scratches head* Can someone explain how you got to that conclusion?
(RANT)I tend to read BBRV's statements with certain scepticism, and always strip the marketing twist and hype, but it's IMHO still better than living in a distortion field where despite any evidence, always the blue side is the obvious cause of each and single trouble on the way(/RANT)
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Is it uncilivilised to suggest that this is most likely an IP laundering exercise? No, I think it is just being realistic.
Actually its just spreading FUD as there is not any real proof of this.
Hearsay evidence (Law), that species of testimony which consists in a a narration by one person of matters told him by another. It is, with a few exceptions, inadmissible as testimony. --Abbott
As it comes directly from the source it is NOT hearsay.It is also interesting to note BBRV has not refuted this claim.
Of course, if one of these guys that recieved a card directly comes forward and verifies Gary Hare's story, all these BBRV supporters will claim that the new "witness" is in on some plot to discredit BBRV.
I find it interesting how quickly the focus of the "blue side" has changed from Amiga Inc. to Gary Hare.Hardly a word has been spoken about them, are they bo longer the greatest evil to the Amiga scene since the inception of time?
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@BillH
You really need to take a chill pill.
The vitriol you are spouting out does not become the intelligence you've previously shown.
OK, you don't have to trust Garry Hare, but at least stop being the bloody nightmare you accuse everyone else of being.
-john
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@Iondeluxe
>As it comes directly from the source it is NOT hearsay.
Nothing you read is directly from the source. We are 3rd parties to the written word.
> I find it interesting how quickly the focus of the "blue side" has changed from Amiga Inc. to Gary Hare.
Garry Hare isn't a new topic, it's hardly the fault of any "side" that it's taken a year for these questions to be addressed. Add to that the bomb that was dropped when it was discovered he's owned the IP that Amiga hasn't owned in a year, and it's not surprising it's a hot topic. :-)
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I thought this was an interesting interview. Garry Hare seems to be a down-to-earth guy. I wish him well.
---------------
@Wayne ... I would like to apologize to you ...
I thought you and some buddies created the business card (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/photos/970.jpg), to support BBRV's claims.
I was wrong.
---------------
redfox
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Is it uncilivilised to suggest that this is most likely an IP laundering exercise? No, I think it is just being realistic.
Actually its just spreading FUD as there is not any real proof of this.
it's a reasonable suspicion, in light of Hyperion and Amiga publicly announcing that they would take measures to isolate Amiga's IP from hypothetical bankruptcy during the time this transaction had taken place.
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@IonDeluxe
Actually its just spreading FUD as there is not any real proof of this.
Hyperion have repeatedly stated that they will own AmigaOS in the event of Amiga Inc bankruptcy. Since any such contractual clause is legally unenforceable, logic says they must have had a plan by which to do this so that AmigaOS is not counted as an Amiga Inc asset should push come to shove. You may think it FUD that this could be the reason for KMOS acquiring AmigaOS, but I think it is quite a logical deduction given what we know rather than what we are told.
I'm not saying it is legal or otherwise, since I do not know the US legal system, but the underlying purpose seems clear. Certainly it makes more sense than believing that someone with Hare's obvious lack of understanding of the product he owns just decided to form a company to buy AmigaOS.
Are Hyperion or Ben Hermans directly or indirectly involved? I don't know, and I seriously doubt they'd admit it if they were. Either way, the whole episode looks particularly shady from where I'm sitting.
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If you actually had a life to speak about, you would know better ;-) I dont care if im being rude, im just sick and tired of all this nitpicking of things that dont matter, if you love the amiga, and its community you would wish it the best, instead of all this BS! :-x
Its time to stop! We`re here to push this platform forward, not bury it 9 feet undergound :-x
No wonder we have not seen any progress with all this bulls#"#!
Just move forward! forget about the past! If this was microsoft were talking about we would find much more dirt! :-x
Just stfu and contribute with anything useful instead! :-x
You dont know this man yet, but still u want to drag him into the dirt! Why not give the man a chance??? Let him prove himself a reputation before you make him into the devil himself!
Enough said! :-x
(heavily drunk and speaking with great confidence :-D)
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Are Hyperion or Ben Hermans directly or indirectly involved? I don't know, and I seriously doubt they'd admit it if they were. Either way, the whole episode looks particularly shady from where I'm sitting.
Nevertheless, this is still hearsay, and still without any proof to back it up and as such is still FUD.
since I do not know the US legal system
You say you dont know the system yet you still dribble this:
Since any such contractual clause is legally unenforceable
Thereby destroying and credibility this statement had.
but I think it is quite a logical deduction given what we know rather than what we are told.
And finally we dont know anything.Do you know what contract Hyperion had with Amiga Inc? Do you know what that contract entails. Considering that you "do not know the US legal system" can you seriously tell us that this contract is illegal?Do you know the details of the sale of this to itec or the details of the sale of itec to KMOS, who set KMOS up, where the money came from that Amiga Inc. now seems to have?
YOU DONT KNOW SQUAT!
Anyone can pull a few dates and statements out of the air to make it fit any kind of conspiracy theory they like.This is nothing more than conjecture, supposition, assumption put together with a good deal of trouble making and nothing else until you get some proof to back yourself up.
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@Wayne ... I would like to apologize to you ...
It takes a big man. :pint:
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T_Bone said:
@Wayne
It still bothers me that people who should know better are still mealy-mouthing the issue after calling you a liar.
? ? ? Ah - but wasn't Wayne claiming it to be a 'genuine' card in ALL particulars rather then allowing for the possibility of it being an 'example' card?
If Garry Hare actually created THAT card rather than it being run-off by AmigaInc's own business printing customers . . . then Wayne - by claiming that the card was, in ALL ways, genuine - was not debating that issue on firm ground!
Was Wayne just too ready to accept the party line provided by that[/i] individual who passed the card on to Wayne?
. . . . . . . . . . . .
notice- Found below: Edit by admin : trolling and argumentative
That's it then - show where Wayne is getting bested in an argument and that he's resorted to name-calling in response will result in your well-reasoned post being deleted! "it's clearly convenient" how THAT can be done! Good thing that I didn't raise the fact that 2 years ago he was quite dismissive of the PPC processor . . .
Funny, in spite of accusations against AW where that might rarely happen -- win an argument HERE and you'll get deleted for sure! :lol:
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Ah - but wasn't Wayne claiming it to be a 'genuine' card in ALL particulars rather then allowing for the possibility of it being an 'example' card?
No, but it's clearly convenient of your memory to think of it that way.
I stated, from the beginning, that I personally did not know whether or not he was actually CEO of Amiga Inc, but that he did -- at least on one occassion present himself as such to the public. He did -- as publicly stated now -- hand out cards stating it as fact. It was, in fact, a "genuine card".
I was defending against those who slammed me for stating that the card was a real card (as opposed to the photoshopped {bleep} that certain people claimed). For this, I was called a liar and have had to put up with months of character assassination.
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@Wayne
Forget it. They accused you of putting forward a faked card, and now that the card is confirmed as genuine it is still your fault for showing it. Damned if you do...
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Wayne Posted: 2004/3/29 3:12:23
:
Ah - but wasn't Wayne claiming it to be a 'genuine' card in ALL particulars rather then allowing for the possibility of it being an 'example' card?
No, but it's clearly convenient of your memory to think of it that way.
I apologize if my perception of the WHOLE afair has become settled on YOUR shoulders, Wayne, but YOU shouldn't blame me for accusations that others made!
I stated, from the beginning, that I personally did not know whether or not he was actually CEO of Amiga Inc, but that he did -- at least on one occassion present himself as such to the public. He did -- as publicly stated now -- hand out cards stating it as fact. It was, in fact, a "genuine card".
I was defending against those who slammed me for stating that the card was a real card (as opposed to the photoshopped {bleep} that certain people claimed). For this, I was called a liar and have had to put up with months of character assassination.
. .. "it's clearly convenient of (MY) memory to think of it" as being presented as an unverified[/i] article!
@Wayne- Did YOU in fact seek verification that ALL of the details on that card were genuine before YOU posted of the 'affair' on this site? IOW, did YOU have Garry Hare's confirmation as to the card's contents?
The trouble is that there are some very impressionable folk (like bhoggett) who are inclined to believe any 'spin' presented to them.
(In fact, it seems like that very forum 'spin-meister' still believes that the CARD is, in all ways, quite genuine)
My "memory" has that my thoughts on that ocassion centered around the possibility that THAT card had been created in an office, and not in a regular production run at a printing establishment!
THAT was why I posted THIS (http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~vortexau/images3/BusinessCard1.png),THIS (http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~vortexau/images3/BusinessCard2.png), and THIS (http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~vortexau/images3/BusinessCard3.png) image . . . Images that I created when I was enrolled in a business course and required to create a "business plan" for course credit!
I POSTed those images to show how things shouldn't always be taken at face-value! :-o
. . . . . . . . .
(NOTE- Quite nasty Edit by admin : below with misrepresented reasons!)
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@Bill,
Yeah, I know, damned if I don't...
If anything, what I want EVERYONE here to understand with perfect clarity is this;
Things are not nearly as crystal clear as people are wanting to believe. There is deception all around us, and I'm not talking about the paranoia aspect. Here we have a situation that was blown completely out of proportion by the community (spearheaded by Bill Buck) which -- 1+ year later -- we're finally learning that the truth is actually somewhere in the middle.- Was it a real card? Yes.
- Was it valid? No.
- Did he hand them out? Yes.
- Was he CEO of Amiga Inc? No.
- Did he have what could be considered a decent reason for handing them out? Maybe.
etcetera....
So in the end, everyone is right, and everyone is wrong. The only people who have "won" in this situation are those who haven't bothered to pay attention in the first place.
-
My personal pet theory was that you had been sent something knocked up quickly in a business-card-u-quick booth in 10 minutes by bbrv. :lol:
Turns out I wasn't far from the truth... except it was Garry Hare in the booth .... :-o
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I've gone back over WHAT you said here, Wayne, and you claim that the Card is (in your words) "genuine", and you say:
but that he did -- at least on one occassion present himself as (CEO of Amiga Inc) to the public. He did -- as publicly stated now -- hand out cards stating it as fact. It was, in fact, a "genuine card".
whereas Garry Hare states:
In February, 2003, Bill McEwen asked if I would consider joining Amiga as Chairman and CEO. Ultimately I agreed, contingent on Amiga securing a minimum investment and operating capital
. . . I printed 25 business cards with the Amiga logo and my personal contact information.
. . I met with four companies where I know the senior management quite well and one where I did not.
. . In every meeting I told people that I was considering joining the Company and proceeded with a business discussion.
. . I told David (Traub) I was considering joining Amiga. David asked how to reach me, I gave him a card. At the end of this conversation David said he was associated with Bill Buck . . .
At about the same time I ran into an old friend who publishes a well known gaming magazine. I mentioned I was thinking of joining Amiga and he asked if he could announce it if I did. I gave him a card and promised to call and send him a press release if and when, I joined. There was no such announcement.
(Mr. Buck) specifically knew that I had not taken the CEO position.
I'm really wondering how bhoggett can-
'still claim that the card is (in ALL ways) genuine'?
and
'that the Card's presenter was misrepresenting himself, or using a false ID'?
How can a CARD run off by the individual be a quite genuine article, and be a false-ID, at the same time?
How can someone say that they're considering joining Amiga to a FEW select known individuals, and be afterwards described as present(ing) themselves to the public as CEO of Amiga Inc?
I think of the Public and certain individuals as quite different groupings.
. . . . . . . . . . . . .
@bhoggett,
I used the term unverified, not false!
My AirCamCo Card Images DO exist, but I've never claimed that the information on those card designs is true information! There you are - I've just verified that (in fact) the information on THESE Cards is not genuine! :lol:
......................................................................
and please recall that I said above:
"My "memory" has that my thoughts on that ocassion centered around the possibility that THAT card had been created in an office, and not in a regular production run at a printing establishment!"
and compare that to Gary's: "I printed 25 business cards . . ."!
HOW have I mis-represented the origin of that card?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
(NOTE- Quite nasty Edit by admin : below where with he deteted it because he was shown to be name-calling,- making false accusations,- and revealed to be using faulty logic!)
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The only people who have "won" in this situation are those who haven't bothered to pay attention in the first place.
YEAH!!!! I WIN!!!!
:elvis: :banana:
When do I pick up my prize?
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@vortexau
Boy, do you go for serious misquoting and misrepresentation to back up your claims!
I'm really wondering how bhoggett can-
'still claim that the card is (in ALL ways) genuine'?
It is 'genuine' in that it was handed out by Garry Hare. If the card did contain false information, then the person to blame is Hare and no one else.
'that the Card's presenter was misrepresenting himself, or using a false ID'?
Does the card say he is CEO of Amiga or not? Yes.
Was he CEO of Amiga? No.
Does the card therefore contain false information? Yes.
Did Garry Hare hand out this false information? Yes.
These are facts. We have verbal claims that he passed himself off as Amiga Inc CEO, and verbal claims that he told every recipient of the card that he was not CEO. Both claims are unverifiable.
What possible explanation is there for someone claiming that he is "considering joining Amiga" while at the same time handing out cards that proclaim him to be CEO already? Contrary to claims in this thread, that is not common behaviour.
You seem to want to blame everyone who took the cards as genuine for accepting them at face value, but at the same time want to completely absolve the person who handed out these cards which - according to his own testimony - contained false information.
As Wayne said, deception is everywhere. No one, not even Hare, can expect to have his claims taken as gospel.
I said this before and I'll say it again: if Bill Buck pulled this kind of stunt you'd be leading the lynching mob, and everyone who is still absolving Hare of blame would be following you howling for blood.
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@cecilia
Your prize consists of not being flamed. :-D
Prize it greatly for it is a rare gift.
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Your prize consists of not being flamed.
As I must have been working (and therefore not paying attention) when this whole dumb card-thing 1st began, I read this interview with some objectivity.
And I have come to the conclusion that this is so stupid and ridiculous as to be a giant waste of time.
my real "prize" is being smart enough to know what to spend my brain cells on. And what not to!
I don't know anything about this garry person. He hasn't done anything bad. at least not yet. I hold NO emotion about him. And I will simply wait to see what he will do.
I expect nothing. I still believe that the only people we should "believe" in is each other. The people who have been around for years. the people who have made programs and web sites and whatever that have helped other Amiga users. Everyone else is simply a stranger who has to prove their worth.
Stop looking to a "daddy" that will "save" the Amiga. Haven't we already kept it alive by our own love of it? we don't need anyone. I know I don't.
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@vorteaux
While not intending to make this personal, your reply is very indicative of EXACTLY what's wrong with this community. Too many people having pedantic little opinions without knowing or bothering to understand the reality of the situation.
- Hare created false cards. True.
- Hare handed them out to individuals. True.
- Those individuals are part of "the public". True.
THEREFORE, he handed those cards out to the public, representing himself as the CEO of Amiga Inc. Inarguable. Stop trying.
Now. What *is* debatable is whether or not he gave a disclaimer to every individual that received a card. I'm not questioning the man's honesty, but it would be very difficult to distinctly remember every word to every individual card receiver.
Like I said, you're wrong, I'm wrong, everyone is right in some form of conclusion. Now, what was your point, other than trying to prolong the argument by picking apart someone else's comment?
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This is rediculous.
My God, They've gone plaid!
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I think people should read up on quantum physics and see just how truely weird reality is at the base level.
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@vortexau
> Wayne, and you claim that the Card is (in your words) "genuine",
Yes, it's a "Geniune" business card. The card exists. It's not a "fake business card" but in fact, is actually a real business card that you can hold in your hand. it's not made up, it exists.
What did you think he meant?
If Garry Hare had personally handed you the card, and people called you a liar and said you photoshopped the card, how would you describe the card? Seriously?
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It matters not. Gary claims that he "gave a disclaimer" and no proof exists otherwise.
So the claim he misrepresented himself as CEO of Amiga has no basis to stand on.
Saying those individuals are part of the public is a stretch. Offering those cards to everyone at the shows he attended and putting them in a dish free for all is public. Handing them out to a certain few individuals is not.In any case, Gary Hare claims he gave a "disclaimer" and none of the people he gave them to have said otherwise.
The person who represented Gary Hare as CEO of Amiga to the public is those who posted that he was, namely BBRV, and Wayne, pawn or not, you assisted in this deception.And this is a matter of public record that IS proveable.
It is NOT Gary Hare we should be chastising(though he deserves a smack on the wrist for giving those cards out prematurely) but BBRV who tracked down and specificly asked for this card, then with full knowledge of the truth misrepresented Gary Hare to the public as the new CEO of Amiga Inc, and even claimed credit for pushing out B McEwen.
It is his behaviour that is deploreable, dishonest, untruthful and outright lies in an attempt to besmirch someone as they came on the scene. Throw enough mud and some of it will stick goes the saying.
BBRV is an expert at throwing mud thats for sure.
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Edit by Moderator: Line Removed - Personal Attack
I'm no longer interested in discussing this [moderated] attempt to keep the blown proportion of this situation expanding.
Have a nice -- or suitably your choice -- day.
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> It is NOT Gary Hare we should be chastising
I somewhat agree. I place the blame squarely on everyone who KNEW the truth, and never spoke up while they watched people who were telling the truth be called liars. That's a damnable offense, quite literally.
What saves Garry is that he doesn't read the forums, so I can't say he participated, but we all know a few people that HAD to know, that watched these threads and even participated in them, while knowing the truth.
Both Fleecy and Bill Mc were certainly aware the card was real, and remained silent as people were called liars, and said nothing. I find comfort in the fact they will no longer have anything to do with AmigaOS because I never want to be in the position to have anything to do with them ever again. I suspect BB knew too, but I can't be positive, but if he did, the same applies.
Remaining silent while watching others being called liars, when you know the truth is right up there in the top 3 on the stone tablets.
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Only a few cards were passed out. I doubt Mr. Hare thought it would be such a big issue. He made a personal mistake. LEAVE IT AT THAT. Rather than {bleep} about the cards some more, could we possibly talk more about this "business partnership" between KMOS and Hyperion, and what the existing, tiny Amiga community expects for a product, so maybe, possibly, they can actually release something?
If KMOS is just a shell game for covering Amiga's legal woes, well, that's not going to affect me, since I don't buy "coupons" and such crap. I consider my $100 for the Party Pack to be a wasted investment, so I'm just watching for product demonstrations. In the meantime, I'll continue to use Win2K, learn Linux and PHP, and spew out a few ideas and features I'd like to see in a next-generation OS, like a REAL scripting language, a brand new quarantine-based security model that puts JAVA to shame, and a complete, competent GUI toolkit "out of the box". These are the things that should be commonplace on PCs, but are either done very, very wrong, or are non-existent. GUIs, in particular, are a huge pain in the butt. I'd really love to write my own front-ends to command-line programs without having to learn C++, or move to Java, which offeres a terrible user interface and belittles the GUI resources of the host OS.
Speaking of scripting languages, whatever happened to SHEEP? Will it be in OS4, is it intended for DE, or is it no more?
It is NOT Gary Hare we should be chastising
Has anyone considered the possibility that Mr. Hare won't BOTHER with a second interview, after the crap that has been thrown around in this thread?
Remaining silent while watching others being called liars, when you know the truth is right up there in the top 3 on the stone tablets.
I have to admit, that asking Amiga, Inc. to remain silent for legal reasons, doesn't quite cut it. There had to be more going on here. But, since when has silence been out of the ordinary for Amiga, Inc.? It's been four damn years since they "aquired" the name and they've publicly announced squat.
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Remaining silent while watching others being called liars, when you know the truth is right up there in the top 3 on the stone tablets.
Silence is gold, just wait and see ;-) :pint:
Here is a cold beer for all those in this community with patience, and dont get overheated over things that have happened.
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IMHO Garry seems to be a guy who isn't caught up in the "Amiga Religious fervour".
I only shudder to think what he'd make reading the rabid rantings on the Amiga boards.
I just hope he keeps above all this and runs the business like a proper normal business. Not like the fubar "companies" that have owned Amiga over the last ~10 years.
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(In fact, didn't the amiga.com announcment state that KMOS acquired Itec?
No it did not, it said the following:
On April 23, 2003 Amiga entered into an Agreement with Itec LLC, later acquired by KMOS, Inc.
Unfortunately, that is a bit vague, does it mean the agreement was acquired by KMOS or that Itec was acquired by KMOS?
The answer to this question comes from Garry Hares declaration:
On October 10, 2003, KMOS entered into a Stock Purchase and Sale Agreement and Agreement of Assignment of Intellectual Property Rights (the "Agreement") under which it acquired all Itec's interest in Amiga's Amiga OS family of products.
This shows that KMOS only acquired Amiga OS from ITEC and did not acquire ITEC.
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Edit by admin : trolling and argumentative
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> MY dictionary states:
> 1 really coming from its stated, advertised, or
> reputed source.
And it DID come from the stated source. it's not rocket science. This is what I mean about the mealy-mouthing.
This is reduculous! Garry prints up cards saying he's the CEO of Amiga, and it's WAYNES fault that it's false information. Unbelievable.
It's like Bizarro World.
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@T_Bone
Let it be. There are those here who aren't interested in reality or logic, they just want to argue...
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Edit by admin : Trolling, Personal Attack
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Edit by admin : Trolling, Personal Attack
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Edited by admin: argumentative without point
At this point ladies and gentlemen, all that needs to be said on the irrelevant subject of invalid business cards, has been. Any further attempts to sit here and pedantically argue over a non issue will be removed by admin.
If you want to discuss relevant issues such as Amiga's omission of the sale from the court and hiding it from the public, OR the fact that all companies involved are seemingly allergic to the truth, then fine, but the business card {bleep} is done. It's over.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
This is great! I've never seen such obsession with a trivial issue. A General of the Armies obsessed with the placment of a single tank in 10,000 tank battle. :-D
I for one am willing to give someone a chance to get what's left of the Amiga back into the technology industry. Gary likes to take a Mac to a meeting to look cool, GREAT! Guess what everyone, thanks to Microsoft's corporatizing (is that a word?) of technology (including Microsoft Speak), that is just the kind of person you need to have running a modern tech company (YES, a "suit").
The age of the Amiga and the technology market of it's time is long passed. It needs to change with the times or die and in this day and age that means lots of long words that mean nothing strung together and flung at corporate "suits". I see it everyday and it's a VERY sad state of affairs, but very true.
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I think you guys need to look at a few dates to understand the issues with Garry's take of events.
December 2, 2002 - Bolten Peck wins his court case
December 6, 2002 - Amiga Inc officially receives the Peck paperwork (Bill McEwen did not show up in court).
December 13, 2002 - Itec LLC is incorporated. (This is interesting because Garry describes this company which is 3 years younger then Amiga Inc as the source of Amiga Incs funding) In truth, Amiga Inc has been broke and officeless since before Itec was incorporated.
April 10-18, 2003 - A number of email and conversations between Bill McEwen and Bolten Peck's lawyers, emails are included as part of the Thendic case. All about funding happening soon, Bolten will get his money soon, and all a stall tactic leading up to April 23rd.
April 23, 2003 - Bill McEwen gives 2 hours notice that he will not be attending his depostion about financial matters (both of Amiga and of McEwen) in the case of Peck vs Amiga Inc, instead he apparently sells Amiga OS to Itec on this day.
April 30, 2003 - Bill McEwen gives his delayed deposition, claims ownership of the OS, says Amiga Inc is broke, says Garry is new CEO.
August 7, 2003 - Bill gives his much delayed deposition in the Thendic case. He again claims ownership of Amiga OS, an item he and Garry Hare now claim was sold in April.
October 2, 2003 - Amiga Inc loses its lawyers in the Thendic case.
October 7, 2003 - KMOS is incorporated.
October 10, 2003 - KMOS acquires Amiga OS from Itec. (Interestingly, Itec apparently is financing KMOS as well).
Feb 19, 2004 - Thendic wins their case against Amiga Inc.
Feb 27, 2004 - Rumors of KMOS and Garry Hare appear on 3 major Amiga websites as a press release.
March 1, 2004 - Bill Buck asks for a rewrite of the judgement.
March 15, 2004 - The big announcement on Amiga.com
March 15, 2004 - Amiga Inc files court documents claiming several things including KMOS now owns Amiga OS and has owned it since October when they acquired it from Itec who got it from Amiga Inc in April.
March 26, 2004 - Garry Hare interview hits Amigaworld.net
If after reading the timetable, you still believe everything is on the up and up, I have beautiful beachfront property in Florida and a nice bridge in New York I am trying to get rid of, biggest donation to Lord Karma Kitty gets you first pick.
-Tig
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Thanks Tig,
A lot of work involved, but that puts things into perspective very nicely where this shell game is concerned.
Wayne
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> This is great! I've never seen such obsession with a trivial issue.
It's not a trivial issue. people were accused of lying, while people who knew the truth let it happen. These people who sat in silence are despicable.
For me, it's not about "Who's the CEO" or any other angle that's been argued. It's the act above that's pissed me off. It's inexcusable.
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Just because a corporate entity was incorporated on a certain date does not mean that the business did not exist prior. It just means that it wasn't a corporation before that.
Finding out what state they operate out of, you could then check for tax id or other business filings that may indicate date of inception.
Itec may have incorporated for various reasons. Maybe they thought it was a good business move and would fit in with future plans. They might have needed one or more of the benefits of being incorporated. Liability comes to mind.
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I absolutely loved Garry Hare's response, and I don't care if they were chummy with Amiga, Inc.
I still have serious questions about the integrity of that operation...
BUT, that is not going to sway my enthusiasm for the team over at KMOS and the honesty and forthrightness of Garry Hare. I don't regard myself as a fool, I call them as I see them, and I think this is a wonderful turn of events.
It's just good to see, this change of ownership over the Amiga OS 4.0 platform. I don't know if I care about this mysterious partner that they are building their business plan around, and I don't know if those interests intersect with my own.
However, I do, just get a warm and fuzzy feeling, and its great they are continuing OS 4.0, and the guy just seems real smart.
Respect is the most important thing, and Garry Hare just commands it.
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I guess I should get my rants straight. I was referring to the business card thing. Nobody has been honest, which is why I'm suprised anyone is obsessing over that one issue. There are so many bigger ones. It's a wait and see thing, though I don't think many will be happy with the future KMOS is working on as I think it will have little to do with the Amiga as a PC type platform. Just my opinion.
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> This is great! I've never seen such obsession with a trivial issue.
It's not a trivial issue. people were accused of lying, while people who knew the truth let it happen. These people who sat in silence are despicable.
For me, it's not about "Who's the CEO" or any other angle that's been argued. It's the act above that's pissed me off. It's inexcusable.
T_Bone I agree 100%.
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@Dalamar
I think the earlier post referring to the situation as "Bizarro World," probably describes it best.
There are claims, counter claims, facts, facts that seemingly reverse other facts, which are, in turn, countered by yet even more facts. There are misrepresentations that are collaborated by by what appears to be credible sources, and truths that should be self-evident that are devistated by some document or another. What's worse, is that this paragraph could easily describe any one of the "activities" we've seen in this community over the last two years. All I can really say is, "pass the popcorn."
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@Dalamar
" I don't think many will be happy with the future KMOS is working on as I think it will have little to do with the Amiga as a PC type platform. Just my opinion."
We do not know the future. But you could be right.
So far it seems that AOS4 for for "desktop Amigans" is ok as far as it takes nothing away from fullfilling KMOS needs.
I think Hyperion has the AOS desktop "ball" for AOS 4.1 and 4.2. After that... WE need to SHOW KMOS that it is important to continue AOS in a way that it suits for desktop use also in the future.
Most likely (also desktop) AOS continue to live. Only the speed of development varies.
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I somewhat agree. I place the blame squarely on everyone who KNEW the truth, and never spoke up while they watched people who were telling the truth be called liars. That's a damnable offense, quite literally.
What about people who knew the truth, but perpetuated the lie? BBRV is the root cause of perpetuating this into the community and using it for nefarious purposes.
@Wayne
people in glass houses. You were [moderated] enough to believe BBRV's {bleep} and bull story and dense enough to turn it into a personal crusade, and also to blind to see you were nothing but a pawn, as so many others have been.Funny, after your tirades, that now this is all out of proportion when you were so instramental in the initial blowing to begin with.
I am also getting very tired of moderators letting Wayne call others idiots when others get the mod stick applied.
Edit by Moderator: Missed that - situation rectified. Thank you for pointing that out.
@Tbone nobody said it was waynes fault for being false information, it has been said it is his fault for perpetuating this whole drama.
Bill McEwen gives his delayed deposition, claims ownership of the OS, says Amiga Inc is broke,
Claims possesion there is a difference
(Interestingly, Itec apparently is financing KMOS as well).
What is your source on this?
Itec LLC is incorporated. (This is interesting because Garry describes this company which is 3 years younger then Amiga Inc as the source of Amiga Incs funding) In truth, Amiga Inc has been broke and officeless since before Itec was incorporated.
this has no relevance, a company can invest in other companies if they are incorporated or not.
Thendic wins their case against Amiga Inc.
incorrect, Thendic win a default judgement in thier favor. There is a big difference.
I find it interesting how a company that went bankrupt and does not exist any longer can win a case, and how another company can claim to be affilliated with this non existant company and have any claim in this case, especially when the pegasos is made by a third company again.
Bill Buck asks for a rewrite of the judgement.
this is alot more than a simple "rewrite" what Genesi wanted and what the judge gave them are two vastly different things, even though genesi are not signaturies of the contract, and the company that is no longer exists.
A lot of work involved, but that puts things into perspective very nicely where this shell game is concerned.
Give one piece of solid evidence that this is the case.No co-incidences show me the money trail, show me that the same people registered these companies, that they are both owned by the same holding company. Show me anything that provides concrete proof, not opinions.
Why these people are so determined to mix Gary Hare and KMOS up with the percieved wrongdoings of AMiga Inc. and its spokespeople is beyond me at times.Could it be that they are just sore that it appears that AmigaOS and/or DE will escape the grasp of BBRV?
This continuing harrassment of AMiga Inc and now KMOS by percieved affiliation is just rediculous when BBRV has managed to run at least 3 businesses into bankruptsy, has non paid employees, created this entire business card fiasco, cancelled health insureance for the employees as well, and generally screwd up most of everything and everyone he has touched. Yet these same people treat him as the messiah.
Look to your own backyard is what I say to them.
This business card thing really pales into triviality in comparison to non paid employees and cancelled health insureance.Thats real lives and real pain and real suffering we are talking about there, not just a bit of pride.
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@iondeluxe (or should I say Vorteaux?)
What part of my previous apologies for my unwitting part in the business card situation are you having trouble understanding?
I realize fully the position that I was placed in, and I feel bad for it, and I've apologized for it. Once again, you are continuing a {bleep}ing argument that doesn't {bleep}ing matter.
If it continues, you will be joining Vorteaux in a timeout.
Let's pay attention to the fact that Amiga Inc is potentially guilty of perjury and fraud here and stop the stupid bullspit over fricking business cards.
> Quote:
>---------------------------------------------
> Bill McEwen gives his delayed deposition,
> claims ownership of the OS, says Amiga Inc is
> broke,
>---------------------------------------------
> Claims possesion there is a difference
Claiming ownership (not possession) in a Federal Courtroom when in fact you don't have ownership of is called PERJURY. It's a Federal Crime.
> incorrect, Thendic win a default judgement in
> thier favor. There is a big difference.
Incorrect. A default judgment is a win, period. The fact that McEwen didn't even show up doesn't make it any less of a win. Perhaps less satisfying for Bill Buck than beating an actual attorney, but still a win.
> this is alot more than a simple "rewrite" what > Genesi wanted and what the judge gave them are
> two vastly different things,
Agreed. I don't think Bill Buck has any rights to AmigaOS.
> even though
> genesi are not signaturies of the contract,
> and the company that is no longer exists.
The "Thendic == Genesi" thing has already been addressed by the courts and the judge accepted Genesi as the rightful party in this case. Otherwise, the case would have been dismissed long ago.
> Give one piece of solid evidence that this is
> the case.
You don't want evidence. You don't want the truth. You want to {bleep} and argue about stupid {bleep} like business cards.
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Thanks, Tekmage! It brightened my day today! :-D
Heh, heh, heh. Take a look at this, guys! (http://pulp.wrongpla.net/news/index.php?module=poll&poll_op=result&poll_id=5) :lol:
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@wayne
No I dont want to argue about business cards, but I am not going to let you or anyone else keep dribbling this rubbish unopposed.
BBRV is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for misrepresenting Gary Hare to the public PERIOD. Gary hare did not go to shows handing out cards willy nilly, he gave them to a specific few people only.BBRV's claims were bogus, and he knew them to be.
Before you go digging up pergury claims have a look at BBRV first, he is not short on that line either.He says whatever suits him at the time and worries about the truth of things after the fact.OMG the "DE operating system" has been grafted onto AmigaOS to make it an OS, give me a break.
A default judgment is a win, period.
Depends on your point of view.A "win" implies that there was opposition to the claim and thier agruments were found to be in the right.This did not happen so they got "default judgement" which means whoever was right was never established.
The "Thendic == Genesi" thing has already been addressed by the courts and the judge accepted Genesi as the rightful party in this case. Otherwise, the case would have been dismissed long ago.
Maybe they have, but that does not mean they were not lied to again. Ihave not seen any court documents describing thier affiliation to Thendic, nor have I see how they can claim affiliation when Thendic is Bankrupt and no longer exists.If you have a link to this I would be most interested to see it.I seriously doubt you HAVE any evidence of this, or you would not have gone back to the business cards again..btw shut up about the business cards
@iondeluxe (or should I say Vorteaux?)
Just another example where wild claims take the place of truth if left unanswered.You are the webmaster, check the IP and you would realize we are not even in the same hemisphere.
Finally, dont go telling me what I do or do not want, you dont seem to know that yourself the way you bounce around, let alone anyone else.
I did not bring up the business card thing, but I will defend it, nor did I bring up perjury, which is offtopic anyway so no I wont concentrate on that either.
And finally, your apology had been accepted for what its worth, now if you look closeley you will see that what I was talking about in my comments there is: dont go around calling other people idiots when BBRV has taken you for one and used you to that end. Mr pot, stop calling the kettle black. Even if this was not the case there is no cause for it.
If it continues, you will be joining Vorteaux in a timeout.
I do not repond well to threats, even meanigless ones like this one. However this threat makes a mockery of the claims this is a "free" board in comparison to the "Amigaworld nazis"
Now do you want to talk about the rest of the interview and actually want to try to find some positives in it, or are you so soured you no longer have the ability to do so?
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Trolls ought to be barred, whether they like it or not. Particularly those who are incapable of discussing matters withour resorting to personal insults and pedantry.
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>> Give one piece of solid evidence that this is
> the case.
You don't want evidence. You don't want the truth. You want to {bleep} and argue about stupid {bleep} like business cards.
Additionally we deride your truth-handling skills. No truth handler are you! Fie on you and your lack of ability to handle truth! Fie we say!
:D
Kermit
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Trolls ought to be barred, whether they like it or not. Particularly those who are incapable of discussing matters withour resorting to personal insults and pedantry.
I agree with the first, the "pedantry" is a bit laughable for two reasons.
1. No one ever admits to it.
2. We sometime have to resort to it to get a point across.
Pedantry for its own sake is another matter.
BTW is there such a word as "pedanrty" ? :-D
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BTW is there such a word as "pedanrty" ?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pedantry
Actually, there is, and it has four different definitions, if that's not being too pedantic :-)
ped·ant·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pdn-tr)
n. pl. ped·ant·ries
Pedantic attention to detail or rules.
An instance of pedantic behavior.
The habit of mind or manner characteristic of a pedant.
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pedantry
\Ped"ant*ry\, n. [Cf. F. p['e]danterie.] The act, character, or manners of a pedant; vain ostentation of learning. ``This pedantry of quotation.'' --Cowley.
'T is a practice that savors much of pedantry. --Sir T. Browne.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
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pedantry
n : a ostentatious and inappropriate display of learning
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University
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pedantry
pedantry: in CancerWEB's On-line Medical Dictionary