Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: System on March 18, 2004, 02:25:51 PM
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The motion by Genesi in their case against Amiga Inc was granted in part, but denied in other ways. Specifically, Genesi is granted rights to AmigaDE (source code access is not specifically mentioned), but denies them access to AmigaOS. Read more to get to the actual file and description.
ORDER granting in part and denying in part 49 Plaintiff's Motion to Modify Order re 47 Court's Order Granting Specific Performance, by Judge Robert S. Lasnik.(AF, ) (Entered: 03/17/2004)
Get it here (http://www.merlancia.us/amigabk/modifiedorderamiga.pdf)
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Well, I for one am glad that OS4 is not under the control of Mr. Buck, however this whole affair has been confusing, entertaining, twisted and frankly bizarre...
I wonder whats going to happen next? :-?
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This subject is being discussed on Morphzone (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=1670&forum=3&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0). So far it seems to be a pretty positive discussion with Amigaworld.net's staff participating.
Fences being mended?
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This means that MOS users will be able to run Java applications (via Intend - up to version 1.4) pretty soon.... yeeeeeeeeheee :-D
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I wonder whats going to happen next?
See my last post:-)
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This means that MOS users will be able to run Java applications
Not necessarily; the contract specifies that the AmigaDE must be ported to the Pegasos, not MorphOS; the Peg also runs LinuxPPC...
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"This means that MOS users will be able to run Java applications"
Not necessarily; the contract specifies that the AmigaDE must be ported to the Pegasos, not MorphOS; the Peg also runs LinuxPPC...
If I understand it right, the porting of Intent
would be done by Genesi and/or TAO, and the contract merely allows AmigaDE to run on top of that. Atleast that is what I thought about it before..
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Does anyone have any idea how much work is required before AmigaDE will run on either MorphOS or AmigaOS4?
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Xeron wrote:
Well, I for one am glad that OS4 is not under the control of Mr. Buck...
It's doubtful that Buck actually wanted OS4, since there's probably little in it that MOS hasn't implemented already. Though he would have taken it if he had the chance, of course. Also, DE has little value itself.
It was more probably a war of egos, but anyway it's past. Genesi might get the right to put a "Includes Amiga technology" sticker on MOS, and Hyperion get to sell their AmigaOS clone.
But as for fences being mended...I doubt it.
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If he did not want it then why apply for the ammendment? Just to {bleep} people around? you bet!
With the OS he thought to have control and earn money from work that was not his, as well as being able to destroy eyetech in the hardware market if he so chose.
Not want? I bet he could barely contain the drool every time he thought about it
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Also, DE has little value itself.
DE will be the foundation of AG2 if Fleecy's Q/A sections are to be believed. I just hope DE is well supported by the time it is released in an unhosted form.
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IonDeluxe wrote:
With the OS he thought to have control and earn money from work that was not his
You mean like exactly like Amiga Inc were doing?
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Van_M-
This means that MOS users will be able to run Java applications (via Intend - up to version 1.4) pretty soon.... yeeeeeeeeheee
But . . . won't they have to install WinCE first? :-o
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We have normality. I repeat: We have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem. Please relax.
Btw, what's Java got to do with AmigaDE?
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I thought that the Itend thingy that AmigaDE runs on, is able to run Java byte code up to versio 1.3. I also thought that AmigaDE is a multiplatform solution and runs on Windows, Linux and CE so far.
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java? ..heh ok dream on...
anyway didnt bbrv promise a big suprise around this? , if this is the suprise then...ok.. what a big suprise....NOT!..
anyway that said , anyone who gets DE atm is good news but the bad news is that there is no engine to be ported so my guess is (keep in mind its just a guess) that they will just port the linux DE to ppc linux DE ..
cheers
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@ KennyR
It's doubtful that Buck actually wanted OS4, since there's probably little in it that MOS hasn't implemented already.
are you sure about those statement?
There are a "couple" of think that BB would like to have. . . . me too :-)
Ciao
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I thought that the Itend thingy that AmigaDE runs on, is able to run Java byte code up to versio 1.3
That would require licensing from Sun.
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Hi mikeymike,
Tao's intent, and therefore DE, does indeed run Java, and they of course must have a Sun licence to do so. :-) I think it's up to Personal Java 1.3 ATM. In fact it's Sun certified (or some such) that means Sun have endorsed it as being a good Java VM, especially as it runs Java pretty ok I fast (ok I don't have any benchmarks, but people always reported good things about it).
Rob
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Now I might ask stupid, but I really don't know:
What is AmigaDE? Ihave tried to find something abuot it, but I only find things, there tells out from, that you know a little about it. Which I DON'T.....
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Hi brutus,
Like most interesting technology it's difficuly to explain DE in a short way (now now, let's not have anyone suggesting a single 4-letter word summary - resist!)
Basically it's an environment that you can write applications for, and this environment can run on many different systems, so once your app runs in the environment (think of it like a media player) then it runs everywhere the environment runs, without you needing to re-build it.
As a comparison, the Linux OS runs on lots of different CPUs (Intel x86, PowerPC, and lots of other CPUs). You can write an app for x86 Linux, but it won't run straight on PowerPC Linux - you have to rebuild it, which isn't always as easy as it could be! Note that in comparison to DE, Linux is a vast beast, whereas DE is not. A bit apples 'n' oranges really :-D
DE is actually built on top of the 'intent' environment, from a company called Tao. The AmigaDE part is extra functionality on-top of that.
Right now DE is good for developers because they can write an app (mostly games right now) and have it deployed on several different systems. In the future it should also be good for the user/consumer because they will be able to run the programs they've purchased on a wider variety of hardware. So you can imagine a situation where you're not tied to upgrading your x86 box to another x86 box because all your software is x86 only. The dream is that you'll be able to buy whatever the best hardware is at the time.
Does that help (or have I hindered?)
Rob :-)
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Tao's intent, and therefore DE, does indeed run Java, and they of course must have a Sun licence to do so. I think it's up to Personal Java 1.3 ATM. In fact it's Sun certified (or some such) that means Sun have endorsed it as being a good Java VM, especially as it runs Java pretty ok I fast (ok I don't have any benchmarks, but people always reported good things about it).
Could you back up what you're saying with a reasonable source? I don't see anything on the Amiga website about it running Java.
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HI mikeymike,
Sure :-)
The easy bit is that it runs Java. This is an extract from www.amigadev.net front page:
"The environment provides a high performance, low resource development service set that allows for the development of Assembler, C/C++ and pJava content, whether it be simple utilities or screaming multimedia games. To see some examples, please visit the Amiga-Anywhere Shop or the website of one of our AmigaDE developers, Zeoneo."
As for the Sun certification I'll need a few more minutes....
Rob :-)
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@mikeymike
...as for the Sun certification:
I actually found this using google:
Sun Java Platform Resellers Deliver Java Technology for Embedded Devices (http://java.sun.com/products/consumer-embedded/whitepapers/javaresellers-wp.html)
If you go to the 'Tao Group' bit (about 3/4 of the way down, just before 'Access') the last line reads:
"Tao's product is a Sun Authorized Virtual Machine and is certified against the PersonalJava specification test suite."
As for the performance, that might take me a bit longer to find. All I can say is that I was convinced that the people saying it was speedy were quite trustworthy. My opinion of course :-D
Rob :-)
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You mean like exactly like Amiga Inc were doing?
Please explain.Put in a PM as it is going off topic, and dont hold back on the details.
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I don't need to put it in a PM. Amiga Inc. didn't do any of the work on OS4, but were set to skim a sizeable portion of Hyperion's sales profit margin. If that's not getting money from someone else's hard work, I don't know what is.
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DE will be the foundation of AG2 if Fleecy's Q/A sections are to be believed. I just hope DE is well supported by the time it is released in an unhosted form.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Thanks man, I needed that! :lol:
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@ Nybbler
I don't see any mention of AmigaDE on the Tao website, nor the Sun website, and:
"The environment provides a high performance, low resource development service set that allows for the development of Assembler, C/C++ and pJava content"
could just be a text editor.
I'm not saying "it definitely isn't" anything, I just want to know what it definitely is, because I've never seen or heard anything that conveys its capabilities in a definitive manner.
And this especially worries me:
"The first step in developing for the AmigaDE is to purchase the AmigaSDK, which will involve the signing of an Amiga Developer's NDA available here"
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Does that help (or have I hindered?)
It helped me a lot - Thanks
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@mikeymike
I don't see any mention of AmigaDE on the Tao website, nor the Sun website, and:
I was going to say "I know, that's odd", but then I re-read it. If you look at that link I gave earlier, then the 3rd paragraph under Tao has the text "...Tao's implementation is also at the heart of the new Amiga system, which capitalizes on its comprehensive multimedia capabilities...". Admittedly it doesn't explicitly say AmigaDE, but it's in relation to Tao's intent, so it must be. :-)
As for the Tao website, well I couldn't find anything except Amiga Incorporated has entered into a strategic relationship with Tao Group for the New Amiga (http://tao-group.com/news_events/press_release_archive/press_release.php?RefNo=59) from back in 2000. There might be more, but I coudln't find a search function on their site.
"The environment provides a high performance, low resource development service set that allows for the development of Assembler, C/C++ and pJava content"
could just be a text editor.
Yeah, I suppose that is rather vague, but it definitely is not just an IDE. I've had the SDK from early on, and although I'm not using Java very much, I have seen and run Java apps under AmigaDE. If you're still not convinced then I'd have to just show you! :-D
And this especially worries me:
"The first step in developing for the AmigaDE is to purchase the AmigaSDK, which will involve the signing of an Amiga Developer's NDA available here"
Yeah, that's an odd one. You don't actually HAVE to sign the NDA, if you can find a copy of the original SDK in a shop, but if you do then you can have access to much more info.
I was quite happy to sign the NDA as it's an emerging technology, and as such they don't want to publish all their work-in-progress without protecting themselves. It's what lots of IT (and I guess other) companies do. It may be that the data from Tao would require an NDA anyway? (I don't know, maybe not).
Have you even seen a demo of the SDK first-hand?
Rob :-)
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mikeymike asked:
Could you back up what you're saying with a reasonable source? I don't see anything on the Amiga website about it running Java.
See Why do you need intent? (http://withintent.biz/index2.php?Cat=1) . . .
intent's high performance solution, which is independent of hardware, operating system and language, includes an unmatched level of audio and graphics capabilities and is now the ratified contents platform of the Open Contents Platform Association, an organization formed by world leading technology corporations in 2001. The intent platform can also incorporate Tao's Sun Microsystems branded and authorized Java™ specifications for client devices, running multimedia applications many times faster than even the most effective alternatives.
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I still see a definite lack of the name "AmigaDE" in conjunction with all that :-)
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I still see a definite lack of the name "AmigaDE" in conjunction with all that
Maybe I don't understand it right myself, but I thought AmigaDE was a layer on top of intent. Thus if you've got AmigaDE you've by definition got intent and, therefore, Java.
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Amiga Inc. didn't do any of the work on OS4, but were set to skim a sizeable portion of Hyperion's sales profit margin. If that's not getting money from someone else's hard work, I don't know what is.
Thats called a contract.Both parties feel they get something out of it or it would not be signed.
BBRV on the otherhand is trying to use legal wranglings to effectively steal other peoples work.Thats a big difference in my book.
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@IonDeluxe
BBRV on the otherhand is trying to use legal wranglings to effectively steal other peoples work.Thats a big difference in my book.
BBRV never wanted to steal other people's work. He even offer to pay for the port to the Pegasos. :roll:
Why do you want to see harm be done to MorphOS users?
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What he was doing was trying to take OS4 from those that own it. Thats stealing in my book.
We all know what BBRV offers and what he actually delivers are two very different things. Go ask Hyperion for thier pegasos board for example.
I have never wished harm done to Morphos users.
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I have never wished harm done to Morphos users.
I have never heard of BB wanting to steal AmigaOS4.
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but were set to skim a sizeable portion of Hyperion's sales profit margin
:rtfm:
You know that for a fact KennyR?
I don't think you are right, because it contradicts with many things that I know.
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I still see a definite lack of the name "AmigaDE" in conjunction with all that
Not AmigaDE, but "Amiga" is still mentioned in the latest intent whitepapers available linked here (http://tao-group.com/news_events/resources/resources.php), (the international one, I'm not a US resident.. ;-)) page 13 as providing a "specific gaming engine and emulator" alongside Criterion, Hi Corp, Spectrum, .. What else should that refer to but AmigaDE?
Further, Amiga, Inc. is yet on the partner links page.
Ironically, AmigaInc. is now back to what they were at the beginning of 2000, developing the "Amiga operating environment" aka "Amie" aka "AmigaDE". If, I say if, they are considered to have made a u-Turn in between they now have completed their 360 degree turn and whilst spinning the AmigaOne (I type this on) and AmigaOS4 were catapulted out through the centrifugal power.. ;-) (both of which otherwise would not be there, realistically)
Ciao, Alex
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@IonDeluxe
And what would you call those famous coupons ?
Everyone (except you offcourse) knows that AInc
will never ever pay those back, and in the light
of current findings it even seems rather obvious
that AInc allready knew it at a time the came up
with the "I am Am^H^H KMOS"-scheme.
What remains to be seen is wether they stole that
money from costumer, or if it will somehow cripple
Eyetechs/Hayperions profit-margin.
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I have a new nickname for Billy Buck, but I probably lose my posting priveledges if mentioned it public, so I'm not. It comes to mind how narrow-minded these people are when they cry and beg, and later sue your pants off. :bigcry: Amigaworld's staff participating in MorphOS' site discussion? Hmmm....
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have never heard of BB wanting to steal AmigaOS4.
Well let us consider that he *knew* Amiga Inc was out of money, knew that could not defend himself and still moved forward with a spurious application to get the source (OS4 is AMiga DE according to him) and so on which he *knew* would be unopposed and hence default to him.
That is stealing in my book and if you disagree thats your right, but it is an attempt to take something which did not belong to him.
And what would you call those famous coupons ?
I call them unrelated to the subject at hand and as such off topic.
Everyone (except you offcourse) knows that AInc will never ever pay those back
Got a crystal ball do you?
Phsychic perhaps?
Maybe Fleecy send Bill Buck a letter telling him so?
and in the light
of current findings it even seems rather obvious
that AInc allready knew it at a time the came up
with the "I am Am^H^H KMOS"-scheme.
this just does not make any sense
What remains to be seen is wether they stole that
money from costumer, or if it will somehow cripple
Eyetechs/Hayperions profit-margin.
Make up your mind, either they have or they have not stolen that money. After all "EVERYONE KNOWS".
Even if they did not pay, it would not cripple Hyperion or eyetech as they have absolutely NOTHING to do with any offer Amiga Inc. had had or possibley will have in the future.
If they do not fork out the cash when Hyperion releases OS4 then I may very well join the mindless mob after thier blood for such a dishonest practise, but not before.
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have a new nickname for Billy Buck, but I probably lose my posting priveledges if mentioned it public
It wouldn't bother me if you lost your posting priviledges :-D