Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga.org site announcements => Topic started by: System on February 15, 2004, 01:22:52 AM
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Welcome to the new Amiga.org! We're now running Xoops 2.06, and this marks the completion of "phase 2" of our upgrades. Thanks for your patience during this process.
Thanks to Steve and Brian (Ackbarr, core Xoops developer) at PlanetXoops.com (http://planetxoops.com), phase 2 -- the upgrade to Xoops 2.x has been completed. To mark this, we've added a new look and feel to the site which, like the last one, will mutate as needed to match the community's needs and desires. I know that change is never easy for a lot of you, and indeed getting here hasn't been easy for us, but please understand that the upgrade to Xoops 2.x was a necessary one.
The big question: Why?
Because Xoops 1.x had become no longer secure. Don't Panic, we don't believe that anyone's information has been truly compromised, simply that there have been a couple of incidents where changes were made to the site lately that "we" didn't make. It is inevitable however that all Xoops 1.x sites will have the same problems, since the 1.x path has been devaluated.
To give a little history, Xoops 1.x is the code base we run. In earlier versions (the version 1.x level), code and display were integrated as one thing. To change even the background color of a table row, you had to edit the PHP code. As a result, over the last 3 years of running Xoops 1.x, our code base had been highly -- and I mean HIGHLY -- modified to add little niceties and features that users had requested to make the site run smoother. All these changes made upgrading, even to another Xoops 1.3.x upgrade, very, very difficult, as we had to replicate every hack and modification we'd ever made to the code.
About four months ago -- as some of you recall seeing -- I made the "executive decision" that
1) Since the site was no longer secure
2) Since upgrading to a more secure 1.3.x version wasn't possible (we were running the latest 1.3.10)
3) Since initial testing actually proved that Xoops 2.x was more compatible on several levels with the LATEST Amiga browsers
It was time to bite the proverbial bullet and perform the "dreaded 2.x upgrade". The trouble is, because of all the modifications and different third-party modules we had installed over the years, every attempt that *I* made met with no success. Whether this is due to the particular version of Xoops 2.0.5.2, the use of third-party additions, or my own oversight is unknown. So, I put the 1.x site back up, closed every hole I could find, and called in the professionals.
About two months ago, I began working with Steve and Ackbarr (PlanetXoops.com (http://planetxoops.com)) to establish a dev site using a copy of the live data. Using a secondary development site let the entire team get involved in the process and work towards the new site design and layout. There's still a lot to do, but we've got a list and at this point, there's no sense in delaying the upgrade when the changes which are left can be handled while live.
I will say this: Xoops 2.x is a lot more promising, but I never realized the amount of work that would be involved in a "mere" upgrade. Rather than five theme files as in Xoops 1.x, EVERY module including the system itself has been seperated into its own "templates" (which control individual aspects of the display), on top of the now eight different "theme" files (which control the overall look of the site). Imagine going from having to make five changes and being online, to needing 100+ changes.
So why didn't you just install the old Amiga.org theme?
If you've read this far, you might ask why I didn't just download and install one of the many "themes" available like all the other Xoops sites do? Well, that's both a simple answer, and the cause of most of the work. To explain, Xoops -- like almost everything else in the world -- actually supports modern Web standards, like CSS and XHTML. Unfortunately the developers of most Amiga browsers haven't had the opportunity to expand their support as quickly as the rest of the world. This is truly understandable, and not a slam at all. After all, Amiga browser developers don't have zillions of free ones to play with like Mozilla Firefox, Netscape, Internet Explorer, etc.
A big challenge for us when redesigning this site was that no "out of the box" theme for Xoops (including the stock Xoops theme) was compatible with any Amiga browser. What the team and I had to do was literally fall back to square 1 and start over, rewriting every bit of code to older HTML standards. We've been able to successfully test MOST of the site to work with the latest Amiga browsers. Most features work correctly, but let me say this with the hopes that you clearly understand my intent. If you're not using the latest Amiga browser, UPGRADE. The browser developers depend on your support by way of upgrades to make their development possible. If you're not willing to upgrade to the latest and greatest Amiga versions out there, you really can't complain if things don't work properly.
Quite simply stated, the more we worked to adapt the old Amiga.org "Blue" theme, the more we realized that it was incompatible with the theme/template split in Xoops 2.x. Besides, what's the use of an upgrade of this magnitude if no one notices the change :)
Okay, what's next? What's "Phase 3"?
Phase 3 of our upgrades is literally "expansion." Once Phase 2 has been completed, and all the kinks have been worked out, Kent Seaton and I will begin writing and looking for new modules which will help expand Amiga.org's feature set to make us truly unique amongst all the copycats out there. This may include:
- Personal address books, link lists, and such
- Expanded personal messaging,
- IRC Interfacing for the #Amiga.org channel
- Adding the ability for users to have their own personal Web pages (though the potential for abuse and the heightened overhead for the staff makes this a little less likely in the immediate future),
- Team project management abilities (such as an Amiga version of "sourceforge")
and more. We truly want to make Amiga.org a very useful and meaningful experience. To do that, we'll invite everyone's input as soon as the current upgrades are considerably complete. We hope you'll bear with us in all this and begin to share the enthusiasm that the staff has for the potential future of this site.
Finally, a recommendation
I would be remiss if I didn't point out the excellent work, assistance, and support of the staff at PlanetXoops.com (http://planetxoops.com). If you're considering running a site, for any reason at all, please consider them your first stop along the way. They've been instrumental in these upgrades and I really believe that Amiga.org wouldn't be possible today without their help and support.
Best regards,
Wayne Hunt and the staff at Amiga.org
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I hope you don't mind me saying, but the new theme sucks somewhat.
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It's changed again in two minutes... (edit: no it hasn't - at least not majorly - I just didn't realise my bookmark was taking me directly to the news section) and I lost "Post Comment" temporarily. I think it is going to be adapted pretty quickly but the important thing was to get the site back on-line I guess.
One thing: I've just noticed my email address in my profile is wrong, but it doesn't seem possible to change it now. How do I get it updated? (edit: still waiting for an answer for this one :ranting: you've got three months before my old address expires :roll:)
Chris
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huff this looks horrible :-o , i hope this is just temporarly!..
good luck team! , i have used this site for many years and there have been bad and good themes!
cheers
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Aye - I'm sorry to say I dont like this new theme one bit.. The last design was the best incarnation yet.. and this new layout... The new banner is horrible - ditch the bold sans serif font - and the copper colour - it looks very 1980's..
Sorry - just me oppinion.
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Hmmm. Not sure I like the tan and glowing menu.
But --> NOTIFY <-- !!!
That's seriously most excellent.
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The fonts look a bit screwed (appears to have defaulted to the usual serif font and size in most places, which looks naff). However, I do like the layout of the news articles on the front page, it looks more like a proper newspaper or magazine than a website.
It needs serious amounts of tweaking though.
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Blimey govenor, this is pretty different! I suppose you get so used to a particular layout a new one throws you totally.
It's gonna take some getting used to!
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Hmm not so sure I like it. I dont like the way messages are listed for sure. Why not just list all replys in a thread like before? Its a pain to dig through them all one at a time!
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I assmue you Read the article. There will be tweaks. The big thing was getting the site upgraded to Xoops2 and live. Everything is modified (formatwise) by templates and there are templates for everything. That's alot of templates.
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I'll reserve judgement until it is totally completed...but as an interim comment...I have to say...
I don't like it.
I'll keep an open mind though...
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This is going to take some serious getting used to. I find this inordinately difficult to read compared with the past incarnation....which was the best ever on Amiga.Org.
Times makin changes....
Steve
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The new look threw me for a loop for a bit...I will not out right say I don't like the look. It seems to have a old school Amiga computing feel to it, the color scheme of the title area atleast. I would like to see the colors of the combined Amiga logos in the upper left to be brighter though. Lets see how it turns out when "done".
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i like it . . .and the most important think, it works.
"Notifications", really useful too.
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I'm sorry, it's really horrible. Maybe I just need time to get used to it, but I preferred the old Amiga.org
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I actually think the retro 80's theme is kinda cool...although I can see why others might not like it.
Anyhow, nice job...change is a good thing.
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Now that I've played around with it a bit, I like it even more...the
site feels "cleaner", and easier to operate. Seems to be more responsive
as well (although that could just be my new "T1" connection:-P).
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If I said I liked the theme, I'd be lying. But I like the new features, and most of all I like the fact that it's now far more compatible on Amiga browsers. After all, it is Amiga.org, and you shouldn't need to use a PC to get the most out of it. Even though I know most of you do. Hah, losers! :-P ;-)
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Unfortunatelly I agree with you - new theme looks very ugly and unprofessional [yellow mouse-over glowing text!?] :(
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I bet you hate glow icons.
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Actually, the tan colours remind me of the 1970s era, which doesnt fit into the Amiga theme. And, as for the glow icons, I do like glow icons, but I don't like them as links, especially on a tan background - it makes the webpage look dated...
The message navigation system also involves too much scrolling and clicking, which is quite off-putting...
Anyway, I understand that work is still being done on this website, so I know that this website will look good again... Afterall, I still remember what Amiga.org looked like when it was transformed from Nuke to Xoop..:)
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glow icons
Urgh!
;-)
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Hi All,
I don't use all that many features at A.org. I don't know what's under the hood either then or now.
However as far as the look and feel goes, if this is an upgrade, please downgrade as soon as possible.
I'll echo an number of others. The home page looks like it was meant to confuse and put people off.
The news page is a bit better. However when reading this thread I was disgusted to find that the default setting seems to be SlashDot style threading. Sorry, but that turns me off like a switch.
I often pass by the site to check news and read comments on certain topics without logging in. I hope I don't have to use a personal profile to see things in some form that I like.
And what happened to my avatar? I had a stock one that I liked. Do I need to select it again? Or do I have to go grab the little Gif from AmigaWorld?
BTW, Suse Linux 7.2 with Mozilla 0.9.4.
I try not to be negative, but, so far, I'm far from impressed.
Best,
Bob Kennedy
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I actually like this new style. Good work! There is allways people complaining about new designs.
After a while you will be used to it :)
Good luck. And a news from me!:
I will never post news more, before its really a fact. I've dont to much promises and looks as I was going the same way as Amiga Inc does now.
From now on, I will give you the news when its on amigaworld.org
Regards,
Michal, www.amigaworld.org
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Sorry, I must have come to the wrong site! :-D
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site looks awful at the moment although i like the new features
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It's deja vu, we just altered the matrix.
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Welcome, Betatesters! :-)
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Are there no more Xoops avatars? I used to have the waggling tongue face and now I have nothing.
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Different, and refreshing. It'll take some getting used to, and I'm sure as new features are tinkered with that further changes are inevitable. Still, I look forward to watching the new Amiga.org grow and prosper.
Targhan
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OMG go back to old look, quick quick quick!
April Fools day went already!
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I must say that I did prefer the old theme - this actually reminds me a bit of some of the really old ones on the Wayback machine :-D
But I'm sure we'll get used to it and that it'll gradually change over time, so I'm not that worried ATM considering how many hacks and patches were on the old site. What's really important is that the site's secure, and readable on Amiga browsers :-) Oh, and that the groaner's corners threads are still somewhere :lol: I see some new features that look quite nice as well...
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Looks awful. I thought for a second that Amiga.org had been hijacked by a spam website. Kudos for the Xoops migration, but I truly hope the theme will be reworked (or alternative themes proposed).
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support of the staff at PlanetXoops.com.
Amiga.org is now in their top links... Nice to be noticed on a forum dedicated to erm.. forums..
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Don't forget to change the RSS feed logo, it is yet a Xoops one.
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yepp, the logo is not the well known AO one :-/
imho the theme isn´t that bad - tho the old ....
(was written often enough by now :-) )
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I understand the reasons behind the upgrade, but I really hope that you will "tweak" this appearance a lot. I hope I don't hurt anyones feelings here, but this is just ugly; the color selections (I mean *brown*!!?), the font size selections (inconsistent at some places), the mix of serif and sans serif fonts (does not work well IMO, choose sans serif (works very good for on-screen reading) and be consistent about that all the way), the font alignment selections in some places (centered instead of aligned left), etc.
I also tried to search for "A1 lite", but that was not possible, since both the words "A1" and "lite" has less than 5 characters. I tried to write "Amiga" instead, but guess how many hits I got? ;-)
Also, when I click on a topic in the "Recent Topics" list, I'd like to begin reading at the top of the page with the first post/comment.
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Hm, I got my previous "wayne inspired" avatar back I see! ;-)
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:-o My goodness! :-o
I had a heart attack when I got the new layout right in the face! :shocked:
Sorry to say that, but I hate it big time :-(
Not enough separation between news and others columns, no more picture to introduce news items, monochromic background, and the top logo... Arrrrrrggggg!
I must say I loved the old look much more than this one :-(
Hoppefully it will evolve, quick please :-)
BTW, I thanxs all the team for the montruous ;-) amount of hard work you had to make the upgrade possible :-)
Now I must go to take my heart pills ;-)
Amigalement,
Jean-François, Amiga ONLY since 1985.
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Welcome to Happy Computing : Amiga! (© 2K4 voxel)
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I don't like it very much, but i'm sure that this is not the final version.
Good work to Amiga.org team.
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Note : the automatic inclusion of signatures does not work?
Amigalement,
Jean-François, Amiga ONLY since 1985.
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Welcome to Happy Computing : Amiga! (© 2K4 voxel)
(added manually)
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@Neko:
I agree completely. The new layout is crap. And the title is horrible. Why news item space has been canibalized by the other sections?
The text has too much antialias so it's slightly blurry, the glow effect shouldn't have been applied to the dots.
And I don't like the colours of the title. The previous title looked much better.
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Excellent, the email address is changeable now. However the profile edit keeps adding dots to the signature and extra info when saved.
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As I recall, I BEGGED for someone to step up and help with the graphics for a header. No one did, except one of the admins. This is what you get. If you don't like the color choices, feel free to create and suggest a new banner.
I knew there would be some hesitance towards something new, but I NEVER expected this amount of whining.
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Poster: djnick Posted: 2004/2/14 18:33:21
"Unfortunatelly I agree with you - new theme looks very ugly and unprofessional [yellow mouse-over glowing text!?] :("
Except for the Alt Image tag I think 99% of 'mouse over' events are unnecessary bells & whistles. I guess my browser is old enough to be immune from them.
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Well Wayne, I'm not the best at graphics, but I'll help if I can. I have Photoshop and many other graphics programs that I've been known to play with.
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And why you didn't simply use the previous header?
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I guess it's too much to ask for that people actually READ things before bitching and whining.
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It takes less amount of work to copy and paste the graphics from the previous title than create the new header.
I'm not talking about fancy code, it's just a matter of using the old GIFs.
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Crumb,
As I stated -- which you're obviously unable or unwilling to comprehend -- the old theme was incompatible with Xoops 2.x. This INCLUDES THE HEADER. The header under the old site was custom written and dynamically generated. That is not possible under Xoops 2.x
Wayne
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I admit, I don't like the new look either, but I don't wanna whine ... so here is a constructive question ;-)
Will the old links to amiga.org (http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=link%3Aamiga.org&meta=) work ever again (you know, those without the www. in front!)?
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I can't see the problem. Open photoshop, load the few gifs that you used in the header, join them in a big GIF and put it in the header. Then you put an img src="mynewimage.gif" and that's all.
It's not so difficult. The header IMAGE, Title IMAGE or whatever you want to call it doesn't require any special php code.
It's just a matter of doing some copy&paste with your favourite paint package and put all the old gifs in a bigger one. Or if you prefer smaller gifs make a table with 3 cells and load 3 gifs separately...
There's no magic code in the header...
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I can't see the problem. Open photoshop, load the few gifs that you used in the header, join them in a big GIF and put it in the header.
Or simply take a screenshot of it from a browser window and base it upon that (since it's all graphic anyway) ...
I'm not saying that the old one was the ultimate choice (especially not since the webmasters at "anotherworld.net" has let themselves be "inspired" by the old amiga.org color scheme and layout), but it's definitely preferrable over the current one.
Something light and fresh would be nice. Without any brown colors and the black border. I'll see if I can come up with a suggestion myself, if I get the time later on ...
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yes, that's is :-)
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Look.
It's not #OOPS#ing possible. Drop it.
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@Wayne
Sorry you're getting the grief over the new top-bar. I kinda like it. It looks like copper. Copper reminds me of _the copper_, which is something really classic Amiga! :-P
Besides, it's not often a top bar is so clean, free from a mess of slogans, who-am-I's, and other such nonsense.
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Any one is welcome to go to http://wiki.xoops.org/wakka.php?wakka=XoopsThemesDoc and learn about theme development for Xoops.
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The "Recent Topics" thing is Xoops. Apparently, alot of people asked the developers to have it work that way. No reason our members can't got to http://www.xoops.org and request features. Having the developers make changes is better than us hacking the current install to the point where further upgrades are nigh impossible.
If you have any suggestion on the layout or format, beyond "It Sucks!!!, Change it! Change it!", please be specific about where and what you have an issue with. You can post it in the feedback forum, pm an admin, or email kees at amiga.org.
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Wayne,
Wayne Wayne Wayne...
You're trying to smack people around for doing what forums are all about. If you want to see bitching and whining, try stepping into a MajorMud forum for a while. I see no bitching and whining here. These are just opinions with the occasional suggestion thrown in. Yes, they're tactfully lacking in some cases and are radicalliy different than yours. You've got to expect a certain lack of tact with people who visit. It's just part of the job. That certainly doesn't give you the right to call people incompentent and accuse them of lacking basic comprehension. You've got good people here and yet you just can't help kicking them in the teeth. It's possible that you didn't get any help with the banner because it's an art form, and you're asking for someone to dedicate their effort with no guarantee of reward. You can't throw mud in everyone's face just because you didn't get any takers.
There's a responsibility on the part of a moderator, no matter what, to keep a cool and level head. I do it daily with some of the most rowdy forum visitors you'll ever encounter. You've got to have the right attitude, and quite frankly, you don't. If I had the same attitude you do when it comes to running my server, I'd have two people left on it: myself and Kent. I care greatly about the service I provide. I take pride in it, and I realize that its success is a teetering balance. Things I say and do determine whether or not I still have a service to offer tomorrow.
You cannot constantly insult the people who make your site what it is and expect everything to be hunky-dory forever and ever. You have a tendency to read into a lot of things, take things personally and just badger people for little or no reason. The first two you need to avoid at all costs. The latter is an absolute sin. Gracefully accepting what's being said and maybe asking and accepting a little advice once in a while will get you a lot further than the replies you've made in this thread and others.
Hopefully you'll take this in the spirit intended rather than as someone trying to belittle you. Believe me, I know all the headaches of the responsibilities of being host of a forum, especially the more active and hostile ones. It's important that you not take every criticism as a personal insult. I know they're not meant that way, at least on AO.
Roj - Moderator, Admin and General Housekeeper of CrestviewBBS, host of MajorMud, the greatest and most hostile gaming environment in the world.
P.S. I just got done talking to Kent about the old banner not being possible with the new layout. He's in the process of reworking it. This is just another example of your hard-headedness getting you into more trouble. I understand the problems with the old banner, but they're not that drastic. Geez, these are computers you're using. Anything is possible.
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Not for news comments. Never has.
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READ the News Item above, Please.
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I'd say probably not. The "www" must be included.
If you remove the last bit before the last / they work fine. It just takes a small change to make links not work.
You do need the "www" in front for cookies to work.
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You've got to have the right attitude, and quite frankly, you don't.
You are absolutely right. I don't. I take this site very, very personally after 9 years of running it -- despite the multiple attempts to destroy it by hackers, rival sites, and even the main companies involved in the Amiga community.
Over the last month or so, I poured a majority of my time and heart into this MANDATORY Xoops upgrade. I invited literally dozens of people in to take a sneak peak (and to solicit feedback) and everyone seemed to LOVE the changes. I put them online, and I'm being attacked on a very personal level for my efforts, so forgive me if I seem a little disgusted by the responses to the new site.
Once again, I am *forced* to wonder exactly why in the hell I bother to try and support this community any more. It seems the more effort I put into this site, the more I am made (by admittedly a few users) to regret it and I simply don't know what to do from this point.
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Moderator Edit: Removed personal attack.
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If you remove the last bit before the last / they work fine.
Sorry, I don't understand...
You do need the "www" in front for cookies to work.
Just use a RewriteRule to make them work and everything will be fine...
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The information those links are pointing to no longer exists at those address.
Don't worry. Those google links will be update the next time we get spidered.
IE. http://amiga.org/forums/classifieds.php
http://amiga.org/forums/classifieds.php
Chop off the last bit and it works.
Why use rewrite rules for Google links that will change on the next site index?
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all though i dont like the color of the top bar im sure i can live with it i did not like it when it was blue at first, but soon got used to it .I also remember wayne asking for people to contribute their own graphics for the site so if no one did then how can anyone complain. :-? :huh:
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Wow! New look. I like it!
keep it up guys. :-o :-D
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Thumbs up!
The new theme is a little 80's, but so is Amiga. :-D
Besides, looks aren't everything.
I love the new "PDA-news" section. Simply great!
So far I haven't got anything negative to say, except that the favicon now resmbles the freggin' xoops-icon instead of the older, but much cooler, AO-square.
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@Admins: If you want to use the previous graphics instead of the current ones send me a PM and I'll do it for you. Send me the current theme and the previous xoops one and I'll modify the current header.
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I knew there would be some hesitance towards something new, but I NEVER expected this amount of whining.
I won't be whining. What do I care what color the banner is. I'm a text person. I prefer less graphics. Gimme plain text anyday.
Speaking of text. Will those icons on the 'post comment' page (quote, url, etc.) return to being text? A picture of the word "quote", etc. would do. :-)
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Hey, if Amiga Site needs to upgrade for reasons that they listed, then my HAT is off to them for making an improvement for the Amiga Community.
Sure some people may not like the Banner colors but I am sure if we ask in a positive way MAYBE they can change the look.
Like someone mentioned.... something new is not always appreciated, liked , etc. I for one seem to be a crtic for things that have changed, but I don't always appreciate the reasons why "it" changed.
True the new site is somethng different from the past (oh btw, this is not the first time they have changed amiga.org site) but at least I am going to try to check it out and try to understand why they changed.... and now I do....
Just my Opinion... And nobody likes to hear whining.....
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You are absolutely right. I don't. I take this site very, very personally after 9 years of running it -- despite the multiple attempts to destroy it by hackers, rival sites, and even the main companies involved in the Amiga community.
. . . .even from "the main companies involved in the Amiga community" !!!
i can't beleive it :-(
Sad . . .very, very sad
no words . . .
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All: the sheer amount of complaints here is astounding to me. Quite honestly, Wayne worked his ASS off getting this site off the ground in Xoops 2.0. The header is the easiest thing to tweak later, so we ran with it as-was just to get the site up. We'll work on the header; in the meantime, please give Wayne Hunt a break. If it weren't for Wayne you wouldn't have an Amiga.org to complain about.
Wayne: Great job; the site works well and in the very few cases it doesn't, I know you and the rest of the AO staff is on the job.