Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Software News => Topic started by: whabang on February 03, 2004, 01:35:19 PM
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There are new OS4 screenshots available!!!
Click on this LINK (http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1186).
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You really want to dribble water over the sand . . . .
infront of a fellow prostrate in the desert with a dry throat and tongue? :-?
-vortexau; who's still waiting! (-for AmigaOS4! ;-) )
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whoohoo! getting better and better! hope powericons will be in the contributions folder on the OS4 cd :-)
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I hope so too, or getting a new version of GlowIcons out with 32 bit 2 frame support. Would be great :)
Regards,
Michal, www.amigaworld.org
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The size of the swap partition worries me a little :-)
Generally looking better, though the lack of window backdrops suggests they haven't optimised the graphics drivers yet.
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Looks great! Come on hyperion, let this out, it's been veeery looong :-)
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It reminds me a bit of Windows XP (not necessarily a bad thing). Those window titlebars HUGE!! There seems to be an excessive gap between the top of the titlebar and the top of the text, and between the bottom of the text and the bottom of the titlebar. The titlebars look almost twice the height of the fonts.
This is a real waste of space - and it'll be awkward to use with 800x600. This is why I use Windows XP in classic mode... there is too much dead space on the screen.
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@smithy:
uhm, almost everything is customizable, dont forget that
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looks good! Now hurry up and ship it to A1 owners.. there's a guy in Austin that has one..would be cool to see it in person.
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smithy:u can configure that as u want, personally i like em wide and big , and for window bars i like em tiny, thats how i like it, you can use default of make your own in a few clicks! .
have no fear :)
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mikeymike: troll bait? , please explain further what ur on about , are u meaning the mui skins ? , does this mean that mos isnt optimized either? seen several screenshots of mos with no mui skin (like 4play's mos1.4 shots here on A.org! )
please explain , i am most interested in hearing your statement!..
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Looks great :-)
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9MB out of 1GB+ of available virtual memory! :-D
Its a cool feature to have implemented properly - that is used if needed - unlike Windows which a) always needs it, and b) uses it anyway....
Plus 256 colour icons with their own independent pallette! Its not png - but we wont really be able to tell the difference.
Fully customizable Workbench - even the title bar is fully customizable! Man I cant wait to play with this beta. Roll on Micro A1! may part with some of my aus money...
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Generally looking better, though the lack of window backdrops suggests they haven't optimised the graphics drivers yet.
Huh? Window Backdrops? Do you mean in workbench and reaction windows? If you use a magnifier, you'll see that there *are* window backdrops. They're subtle, but that is intentional. Compare them to the shaped layer window.
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enter the blue trolls.....
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This is a real waste of space
GUI prefs has an item "window border height" with two separate fields (upper and lower)) where you can adjust the added window height.
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Amazing! 8-)
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I like the new titlebar memory monitor! :-) I was a little worried when the older screens only showed about 23MB free.
Hooray for Hyperion! Looking forward to playing with the prerelease!
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It reminds me a bit of Windows XP (not necessarily a bad thing). Those window titlebars HUGE!! There seems to be an excessive gap between the top of the titlebar and the top of the text, and between the bottom of the text and the bottom of the titlebar. The titlebars look almost twice the height of the fonts.
This is a real waste of space - and it'll be awkward to use with 800x600. This is why I use Windows XP in classic mode... there is too much dead space on the screen.
Why it is good OS4 is fully customizable :-D
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Nice shots ...
Although they would look even better if they we're on my screen :-D
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Looking forward to release some nifty replacement skins and gadgets for OS4 :-)
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Edit by Kees - Uncalled personal attack on team member.
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framiga: not the first but then again i was questioning him if it was trollbait or not, he never replied to me on it.
anyway rouge posted an answer and thats hows it should have been done , instead of making a big flamewar here..
respect to everyone for beeing calm!
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This thread is about New OS4 Screenshots .. nothing more nothing less. I removed a few off-topic comments.
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Looks really good. Can't hardly wait.:-D
goes back to work on his windows machine :-(
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Nice shots ...
Although they would look even better if they we're on my screen :-D
I couldn't agree MORE, Kees. Right now, those shots are more sexy to me than a woman. :-o
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Right now, those shots are more sexy to me than a woman.
If they really are ... then something is seriously wrong with ya ... :-D
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No, I don't like these screenshot business at all!
How many screenshot sessions we've seen until now? Well, I've got just as many defunct keyboards laying around. Put out of order due to excessive drooling from my humble mouth! This A1/OS4.0 matter is getting expensive even before it's out properly. This should come to an end.
Even the missus is complaining about lack of interest from me towards her now that those pics apeared. Lucky me she's a temporary member of the Red Cross at the moment. :-D
Can't wait to see it on my own machine! :-o
Keep on moving guys (M/F)!
Tjitte
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Wow!!! Fantastic screenshots! It looks totally amazing!
Well done Hyperion, and thanks for all your hard work.
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very nice OS, shame there wont be anything new or modern to run on it
[/lostfaith]
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Well done Hyperion, great Job :-)
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are u meaning the mui skins ?
Yes.
And no, I'm not taking it as a definitive indicator, but I know that if I noticed a lack of responsiveness, the first thing I'd probably think about losing are MUI skins.
How my comment qualified as "troll bait" I don't know! Guys, it's me, remember, a guy who wants OS4 to happen! Cannot believe some people sometimes.
(re:VM) Its a cool feature to have implemented properly
I'm not saying it isn't, but 1GB swap should be overkill, no matter what operating system + software you're running!
Huh? Window Backdrops? Do you mean in workbench and reaction windows? If you use a magnifier, you'll see that there *are* window backdrops. They're subtle, but that is intentional. Compare them to the shaped layer window.
Oh ok, hadn't noticed. :-)
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Very nice screenshots .... :-D
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redfox
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mikeymike:it just sounded like trollbait , i didnt say u where trolling, i just questioned it.
happy to hear i where wrong :) in doing so.
anyway its not slow, and they are skinned allready (reaction), the mui ones aint , but then again i know of many (like me) who hate to skin by hand!
its just the default colors rouge choosed, i prefer blue though :)
cheers
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I just cant wait to see this on my screen at home!! Do any of you know/think they will release the pre version to CSPPC users as well, or will it be an AmigaOne thing only?
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WHY do people have to post crap here all the time?!?!?!?! I understand why Hyperion generally keeps away from this site! :-x
About the screenshots:
WOW! This is amazing! The Hyperion-guys have turned OS3.1 into THIS! :-o
I can't wait until I can afford an A1!!!
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Do any of you know/think they will release the pre version to CSPPC users as well
No. Its for AmigaOne earlybird purchasors only.
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WHY do people have to post crap here all the time?!?!?!?! I understand why Hyperion generally keeps away from this site!
?
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mikeymike:it just sounded like trollbait
Then you or anyone else is very much over-reacting.
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Edit by Kees - Uncalled personal attack on team member.
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I know that if I noticed a lack of responsiveness, the first thing I'd probably think about losing are MUI skins.
Maybe, but when I do screenshots, would I care about the speed? After all you can't see that in the first place :-)
Yes, as I said on AW.net Picasso96 is still 68k (graphics is PPC now but of course is still patched largely by P96) because of certain delays and other things that came up, although work is underway. However, I can assure you that there is nothing sluggish or unresponsive about OS 4 even with emulated graphics system.
How my comment qualified as "troll bait" I don't know!
Well, I didn't take it as such. I've seen MUCH worse.
I'm not saying it isn't, but 1GB swap should be overkill, no matter what operating system + software you're running!
I had my problems under Linux/x86 with 512 swap when playing some games like UT2003. I'm rather safe than sorry. 1 Gig is overkill, but then, the disk has 40 gigs so I was in a generous mood when I partitioned it.
(You should see my Linux swap :-) )
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Maybe, but when I do screenshots, would I care about the speed? After all you can't see that in the first place
True, but looking at a lot of the more recent screenshots, they look like they've been done more "on the fly" rather than carefully prepared, so that was my guess. I imagine you position things a bit to get the best view of certain elements, and maybe fire up a demo.
Yes, as I said on AW.net Picasso96 is still 68k (graphics is PPC now but of course is still patched largely by P96) because of certain delays and other things that came up, although work is underway. However, I can assure you that there is nothing sluggish or unresponsive about OS 4 even with emulated graphics system.
Well, I'll be at the OS4 demo in Newcastle, and be warned, I'm a picky bastard when it comes to GUI responsiveness :-) Btw, do you have any idea whether that'll be a recent build they're using there? I just don't like the idea of travelling a few hundred miles to see a build that is way behind the current working status of the product.
Btw, I'm not saying it should be fully optimised now, the product is still in development, the people developing it knows what needs the most work and they'll do the work in the order they see fit.
I had my problems under Linux/x86 with 512 swap when playing some games like UT2003. I'm rather safe than sorry. 1 Gig is overkill, but then, the disk has 40 gigs so I was in a generous mood when I partitioned it.
On Windows, half a gig of RAM available, I have 100MB swap, and I'll be annoyed with anything that is using swap over physical. I'll quite happily complain to software manufacturers rather than burden myself with even a potential performance degradation. But this is all point of view on the problem. For all I know, the swap partition is also used for debugging logs or crash data during testing.
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Argh, WHEN? "I want that Ship"! (Darth Vader) err that OS I meant ;-)
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I think I won't comment on the pictures, as everyone seems to be trigger happy here.
Nice pictures though.
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just to have it said, i am very picky also when it comes to responsiveness , thats why i aint on a PC! using windows!
i wasnt amazed the first time i saw os4 demo'd , but the second time it started to get interesting, 2 months later (around december) i was blown away.
huge changes between theese dates (goes for a1 only ofcourse) , and i cant exactly say its dissapointing to see how its now atm :D
anyway its like an taste, hard to say and its based on your own opion etc, so i think u have to see it to belive it.
as for the demo on the 8th of feburary,i guess thats the pre release they will show, and as far as i know that aint even final (still sorting out stuff) ... its just a guess and not a quote my point is, if it had been final pre release then everyone of the a1 owners would have it by now, or?
cheers
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Well, I'll be at the OS4 demo in Newcastle, and be warned, I'm a picky bastard when it comes to GUI responsiveness Btw, do you have any idea whether that'll be a recent build they're using there? I just don't like the idea of travelling a few hundred miles to see a build that is way behind the current working status of the product
See you there... I'm hoping you'll be impressed .
Don't forget its people like me and sicky etc. who are also driving hundreds of miles and giving up a weekend, so you can get to have a look at it. :-)
You'll get to see the latest beta build.
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I think I won't comment on the pictures, as everyone seems to be trigger happy here.
Nahhh... Just remember to use lots of superlatives and exclamation marks and you'll be fine ;-)
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@warface
I said the same thing to myself. Keeping comments quiet.
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Wow.. gotta say Hyperion and the dev team are doing a great job.
If only I could afford an A1 to run it on :-x
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@Rogue
Does window scrollbars dissappear when not needed (window content is fully visible) or do they stay?
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I find it very sad that people are jumping on anyone who says anything worse than "wow! how amazing!".
Especially considering how probably the same crowd were complaining that this site is "MorphOS only" and they were being shouted out and flamed every time they said anything contrary to "the belief".
Perhaps you guys ought to look at yourselves before accusing/flaming others.
If your belief about Amiga-related stuff is so sensitive that you can't take a contrary opinion to your own, then why are you here? If I had said what I said initially about Windows, or BBC Micros instead people wouldn't have been up in arms, because really there wasn't anything to go up in arms about in the first place!
OS4 is in BETA. That means it isn't perfect. There are going to be issues, like possibly graphics responsiveness. If you don't think you'd complain about such things, then perhaps Hyperion should have just released it a year ago and reaped the financial benefits of such a move. But you wouldn't have liked them or it if they had done that. So then you have to admit that it's not a perfect product, and anything that isn't perfect isn't above criticism. If your conclusion to that scenario is that it still is above criticism, you shouldn't be on a discussion forum about it.
OS4 is product I want to use, as I've said many times before. I'm not sure there are that many people around who troll about something that they're a fan of. Perhaps you guys ought to have thought about that before you accused me of trolling.
I would like some apologies, but I guess my opinion of some people is a little higher than it ought to be. People who admit they were wrong stand a chance of earning a little respect.
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Oh, I admit it, I was wrong and I'm sorry about it:)
Not that I have critisized you but I'd just like to cheer you up;)
I also think that we must be able to critisize any product, how else can it improve? People are probably just very edgy from previous experiences.
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Nice screenshots, but is there any mention of real applications to go with the fancy OS or are we suppose to just play aroung with the new OS and old software running on an emulator?
:-? :-? :-? :-?
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@Warpiper:
There must be some surprises that hyperion got for us :-)
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As before it looks like OS 3.9 with a few more pieces of eye candy basically. Guess I'd actually have to use it to understand how much better this is going to be compared to what we have.
The thing I TOTALLY don't understand is this:
Amiga OS has always been for the 68k CPU family. And it has always ran VERY VERY well on those CPU's even on the very low end stock Amiga's with only a 68000 and 1 Mb or Chip RAM. As long as you did not have a fancy back drop with a lot of colors going at once, things ran smoothe, but if you have a 50 Mhz 030 and turned up the GFX, you could add some eye candy and still run smoothe.
The part that gets me is when you see a Demo of OS 4 which is running on a PPC CPU of some kind which can run circles around a 50Mhz 030, that and PLENTY of RAM, yet the responsivness of the OS seems absolutly horrible!!!! Even when there are no fancy backdrops being used or anything. Is this a temporary bug due to how complicated it is to port something from 68k to PPC, or is Amiga OS on a highway to BLOAT hell!?!? They say better drivers would fix this, but did classic Amiga not have hardware accelration like we have today, and still respond very smoothly?!?!? Come on, we're talking PPC here not 68000!!!
Please someone explain this madness to me. I really look forward to OS4, but at times I begin to freak out about the whole deal.
P.S. is MorphOS suffering the same nightmare?
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@XDelusion
Don't worry. I'm using the latest version, and it is very responsive. Once Picasso96 is PPC, it will get even faster still. I wish I could post a really interesting benchmark that was placed on the betatesters list by one of the Friedens in the last couple of days, but I can't... anyway... responsiveness will not be a problem.
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s before it looks like OS 3.9 with a few more pieces of eye candy basically. Guess I'd actually have to use it to understand how much better this is going to be compared to what we have.
Uh? Are you joking? OS4 have a lot of thecnical and graphical evolution than 3.9. Moste of them can be spotted in these screenshots.
If you say this,also MorphOS, WinXp, MacoS can be 3.9 with a few more pieces of eye candy basically :-? :-? :-? :-?
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XDelusion, I think you'd be equipped to put your argument a lot better if you were in possession of the relevant facts.
Such as - OS4 was originally intended to run largely under 68k emulation, but when it was seen to be unacceptable performance-wise, Hyperion started writing the code and compiling as PPC native.
Having a graphics driver running in emulation is going to suck royally for emulation. For something really basic like my WinUAE setup it might work well enough, but my PC's spec would probably outrun the best of the G4 series by at least 150%. Then there needs to be "room" for other applications, applications which want to use a powerful processor for what its worth.
Also, OS3.1 and previous were written to directly hit the hardware. This means assembly code, and probably custom-written compilers to directly hit the chipsets. If Windows' or any other GUI was designed for a single graphics chipset and no other, they would fly. That is something we have to trade in now to get advantages such as upgrading to decent graphics cards, because no-one is going to fund an Amiga hardware startup to produce the latest and greatest hardware, because it would probably cost billions.
If you think OS4 is just eye candy, I suggest you read the featureset documents available at os.amiga.com. I also suggest you read past news articles on it, and I think you'll realise that 'under the trunk' it is very different and much more capable than predecessors.
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Please someone explain this madness to me. I really look forward to OS4, but at times I begin to freak out about the whole deal.
The reason behind crippled responsiveness of the early version of OS4 is down to two keywords: 68K code and static emulation. There was no JIT emulation of system parts, and some elements of the OS are still 68K. Once all key elements will be PPC native the OS will regain the responsiveness of the Amiga.
P.S. is MorphOS suffering the same nightmare?
No. MorphOS is PPC native for a very very very long time, and has awesome responsiveness. But it's off topic.
OS4 will perform regarding the responsiveness to the same degree once all work is done, I presume.
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True, but looking at a lot of the more recent screenshots, they look like they've been done more "on the fly" rather than carefully prepared, so that was my guess. I imagine you position things a bit to get the best view of certain elements, and maybe fire up a demo.
Yeah, very much so. I just positioned a few windows of what I have installed and started up SGrab.
do you have any idea whether that'll be a recent build they're using there?
I'd guess they have the recent beta stuff. One problem with shows is that you cannot really install the latest stuff a day before the show, since you never know what might hit you...
On Windows, half a gig of RAM available, I have 100MB swap, and I'll be annoyed with anything that is using swap over physical
I take it you don't play "Operation Flashpoint", then :-D
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Nice screenshots, but is there any mention of real applications to go with the fancy OS or are we suppose to just play aroung with the new OS and old software running on an emulator?
There are.
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Please someone explain this madness to me. I really look forward to OS4, but at times I begin to freak out about the whole deal.
You've probably seen a different OS, because I cannot see what you are talking about.
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I take it you don't play "Operation Flashpoint", then :-D
Nope :-)
I used to be really in touch with the latest games (I have no idea if that's a "latest game"), I think I must be getting old :-)
My gaming reportoire goes something like this now: Q3, CS, Tomb Raider games, Colin McRae Rally 2, Jedi Knight series, many of my old Amiga games over WinUAE, Dopewars, and that's about it IIRC..
Just port those games and you'll make me very happy :-)
Actually, if you ported those games, I'd probably steal most of my PC parts for an A1!
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I wan't meaning to Troll.
I really have little technical understanding of how all this works, let's take JIT for instance, I have no idea what it stands for or how it works, I just know it makes UAE a pleasent experience.
When I say that all I notice is eye candy, I don't mean that in a bad way AT ALL, so long as it does not bog down the OS itself. Rather what I was getting at is all I see are screen shots, and that is a pretty exciting thing, but what I REALLY need is a hands on experience so that I can compare the new Amiga OS experience with that of the past. I know it is no longer written for custom chips, and that it is being ported from 68k assembly to PPC C code, so that is a tough thing and will hit performance a bit, but...
...I still expect Amiga OS 4 to FLY when it is done, that is what I am anxious to see. I don't doubt that it can happen it is just that the videos I have seen looked BAD, as in SLOW, and being that I am not overly informed on all the technical jargon, it is hard for me to uderstand why the videos looked like OS 3.1 running on a stock 500 with icons turned on! :) I'd expect the icons to draw themselve out in like a milisecond, and all Amiga apps (being as tiny as they are) to launch in a milisecond as well. None of this Winblows/Linux/Mac crap where we have to wait five years for the screen to draw itself, because I know the OS for once is not Bloatware, so it should not run like it.
Some of your explenations have helped so far thankx!
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I wan't meaning to Troll.
I didn't think you were. IMO, trolling means something someone intentionally says specifically to annoy people.
OS4 has quite a history already, and a bizarre but backwards-logical that could be applied the other way development phase. One benefit certainly will be that the 68k emulation will be far more tried and tested than people would have thought when OS4 was originally announced.
I really have little technical understanding of how all this works, let's take JIT for instance, I have no idea what it stands for or how it works, I just know it makes UAE a pleasent experience.
JIT means "just in time". I'm not sure exactly how it works, but I think it's a method of queuing and processing stuff better, so that when the end result is happening, it is being done more smoothly.
IIRC, the concept of JIT came originally from the Java world, and the same sort of idea was thought beneficial in emulation as well.
IMO OS4 has a lot to live up to, but it has the advantage of not having to drag around half a hundredweight of legacy, unlike Windows and MacOS.
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JIT means "just in time". I'm not sure exactly how it works, but I think it's a method of queuing and processing stuff better, so that when the end result is happening, it is being done more smoothly.
IIRC, the concept of JIT came originally from the Java world, and the same sort of idea was thought beneficial in emulation as well.
AFAIK, it's like emulating a CPU with a 8 meg L1 cache, instead of one without cache at all (which, IIRC, is the "normal" way of emulating). This is said in extremely simplified terms, and I'm no coder, but that's how it was explained to me... :-D
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JIT, is basicly a Dynamic recompiler. One cannot just convert the who 68k code into PPC code (or x86 or whatever) in one go because there is no way the recompiler can know how the code is actually going to run (condtional branches, self modifying code etc...). So the JIT has another solution it only recompiles upto the next branch. and then executes the code block of code that has been recompiled. When it reaches the brance it can then jump to there the branch pointes to and recompile that block upto the next branch. It can do this untill the entire program (or at least as muh of the program that has been executed) is converted into the native code :-) Simple really.
An interprative emualtion just emulates each instruction. No recompilation occures. even if the emualtor is only executing teh same three instructions each one has to be emulated each time.
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Sooooo... So I wans't that wrong, then? :-D
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Yeah, you were pretty close ;-)
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Wow that's it Im ordering my A1 this month:) and I better get a copy of os4 soon after if not with it, I can't wait any longer, give it too me.
By the way it looks really nice and ahhh!! Descent 2, what a fun game, i just loved all of them.
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Decent 2?
I'd still like to see an Advanced DOOM engine such as DOOM Legacy, JDOOM, or ZDOOM instead.
Of course Marathon 1 and 2 would be nice, Duke Nukem (or do we already have that one) ect.