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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: minator on January 22, 2004, 06:50:36 PM

Title: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: minator on January 22, 2004, 06:50:36 PM
According to IBM the new 90um die shrink of the PowerPC 970 (new revision is called 970FX) cuts the power consumption pretty severely. Previously the 1.8GHz 970 used 51 Watts whereas now the 2.0GHz 970FX uses only 24.5 Watts.

At 1.4GHz it's only 12.3 Watts, I can see a Powerbook upgrade pretty soon...

Another change in the 970FX the bus speed which has risen to 1.1GHz from 1.0GHz (giving 8.8 GigaBytes per second).

Intel on the other hand are having the opposite problem, their die shrink is sending power consumption UP.  The major difference seems to be IBMs use of SOI (Silicon On Insulator) which is preventing transistor current leakage, Intel are not using SOI so are suffering as a result, not that they appear to care.

According to rumours a while back the 970FX could go to 3GHz now if IBM wanted it to, the older 970 can go up to 2.5GHz but sucks something like 90W in the process.  I'd guess the new revision could do 3GHz but it's power useage will be something in the same region.

Future is looking good for the PowerPC.

...as is overclockability!
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: downix on January 22, 2004, 07:01:07 PM
Oh wow!

LAPTOP TIME!
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: iamaboringperson on January 22, 2004, 08:20:15 PM
Come to my new Pegasos, baby!!

I don't care what everyone else thinks, IBM definently have better technology than Intel.

Very good news :-)  :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)  :-)
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: Argo on January 22, 2004, 08:25:27 PM
Sounds like Intel will soon be selling 4GHz Ez-Bake Ovens. :-)
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: JoannaK on January 22, 2004, 08:31:12 PM
IIRC some of Intel 'soon' products were supposed to use about 150 Watts... So they don't only need totally new cooling, but new power supply and motherboard desing.

Looks good for PPC.. If we only get 970 supporting northbridge out sometime this year (summer I hope).
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: SilvrDrgn on January 22, 2004, 08:38:38 PM
Wow!  This sounds like a kick butt chip!!   :-)
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: mikeymike on January 22, 2004, 08:48:32 PM
It's good that two manufacturers are getting an idea of what the public want now.

AMD's Athlon 64 chip can clock down to 800MHz (from 3.2GHz) and not need a fan running... well, it's a start :-)
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: Hammer on January 22, 2004, 09:11:28 PM
Quote
IBM definently have better technology than Intel.

Note that Intel still has “Pentium M” as its 2nd backup plan. “Pentium M” is now clocked at 1.7 GHz using .13 micron process.

Also, the double pumped integer units effectively clocks some parts of Pentium VI twice the marketed rated speed.
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: VidarL on January 22, 2004, 09:25:36 PM
You can't compare those numbers with Intel and AMD numbers.. Those are typical power usage. Intel and AMD use TDP- Therman Design Power. The absolute maximum power they can draw.

I believe MicroDesignResources' estimation of a TDP close to 90W for a 2Ghz G5 (0.13 micron) processor is close to the truth. Which is why Apple delayed the introduction of a 1U Xserve-G5 until 90nm G5s were available.. AMD have had Opterons in 1U servers from day one.


Vidar
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: Hammer on January 22, 2004, 09:26:30 PM
Quote
IIRC some of Intel 'soon' products were supposed to use about 150 Watts... So they don't only need totally new cooling, but new power supply and motherboard desing.


I recall, “BTX” specs was required for some high speed Prescotts… Lower speed Prescotts (i.e. speed similar to current Northwood) would still use current Pentium IV infrastructure.

Also, SocketT has similar pin count as the AMD’s Athlon 64 processors.
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: JoannaK on January 22, 2004, 10:15:15 PM
According netrumours.. Prescott will be slower (on same ClockFrequency) than Northwood, so it'll need to be clocked higher to gain comparable speed..
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: Hammer on January 22, 2004, 10:38:10 PM
Why not try "http://www.pconline.com.cn/pchardware/tpylab/cpu/0401/298500_1.html"

http://www.pconline.com.cn/pchardware/tpylab/cpu/0401/298500_5.html
(It's in Chinese, sorry)
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: Methuselas on January 22, 2004, 10:55:36 PM
Quote
Why not try "http://www.pconline.com.cn/pchardware/tpylab/cpu/0401/298500_1.html"


Still a good read, for those that can. Looks quite interesting from what I could translate. :-)
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: Hammer on January 23, 2004, 01:17:44 AM
Quote
According netrumours.. Prescott will be slower (on same ClockFrequency) than Northwood, so it'll need to be clocked higher to gain comparable speed..

IF you are referring to ZDNET’s article on Prescott (1) then some its details is not quite right. ZDNET should stick to benchmarking the said processors…

References
1. http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-5144907.html
2. http://www.chip-architect.com/news/2003_09_21_Detailed_Architecture_of_AMDs_64bit_Core.html

PS; ZDNET(1) also got AMD's pipeline details wrong i.e. K8 should have a slightly longer pipeline than the K7, not the other way around (2).
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: minator on January 23, 2004, 10:21:34 AM
Quote
Those are typical power usage. Intel and AMD use TDP- Therman Design Power. The absolute maximum power they can draw.


No, TDP and absolute maximum are two diferent figures, the absolute maximum is usually quite a bit (up to 30 Watts) higher and is virtually impossible to find, at least from Intel.  Absolute maximum is a theoritical figure which may be impossible to reach in any case.

They all quote some form of average figure.
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: Melaure on January 23, 2004, 11:07:24 AM
The PowerPC is regaining its normal rank in the processors war.  Motorola era is ending and IBM make what should have been doon years ago ...

Hope the Amiga platform will benefit of this work.
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: VidarL on January 23, 2004, 06:58:35 PM
Quote
No, TDP and absolute maximum are two diferent figures, the absolute maximum is usually quite a bit (up to 30 Watts) higher and is virtually impossible to find, at least from Intel. Absolute maximum is a theoritical figure which may be impossible to reach in any case.

They all quote some form of average figure.


Sorry, but you are wrong.

Intel and AMD have a different definition of TDP IIRC, as Intel quotes the maximum power usage when using a power virus, while AMD is quoting the maximum power the CPU can theoretically consume:

Quote
Thermal Design Power (TDP) is measured under the conditions of TCASE Max, IDD Max, and VDD=VID_VDD,
and include all power dissipated on-die from VDD, VDDIO, VLDT, VTT, and VDDA.
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: DanDude on January 23, 2004, 08:19:38 PM
DAMN!!!

This IS serious news between IBM and Intel.  Now I KNOW what I want for my next 'puter!   :-D

Intel's power consumption scares me.  Now you'll need a freakin liquid-coolant system just to keep your egg-cooking platter's temp. down.  :-P
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on January 23, 2004, 08:32:21 PM
Is it a military grade CPU? ;-)
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: minator on January 23, 2004, 09:20:51 PM
Quote
Intel and AMD have a different definition of TDP IIRC, as Intel quotes the maximum power usage when using a power virus,


Not according to Intel...

Quote
Thermal Design Power, Ptdp
Maximum sustained power, across a set of realistic applications, drawn under normal operating conditions, nominal Vcc and realistic ambient (use) temperature.

Maximum Power, Pmax
Maximum power drawn under normal operating conditions, worst case (Vcc,T) corner, executing worst case (synthetic) instruction set.
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: VidarL on January 23, 2004, 09:36:25 PM
Quote
Thermal Design Power, Ptdp
Maximum sustained power, across a set of realistic applications, drawn under normal operating conditions, nominal Vcc and realistic ambient (use) temperature.


Ok, so they Intel determine TDP by using a number of applications instead of a power virus. The fact remains that the TDP Intel gives out is MUCH higher than average power consumption. If IBM gave out a TDP number, it would be a lot higher.

Vidar
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: Valan on January 24, 2004, 04:08:04 AM
Note: this is just an idiots suggestion.

Is the power consumption related to the clock speed?
If so then IMHO it would be good if the OS could manage this so that if the user is doing wordprocessing or accessing the www then power and clock speed are kept low but then if more speed  is needed then the power/clockrate can ramp up.

Like I said just an idiots idea


Valan :-)
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: minator on January 24, 2004, 09:48:42 PM
Quote
Is the power consumption related to the clock speed?
If so then IMHO it would be good if the OS could manage this so that if the user is doing wordprocessing or accessing the www then power and clock speed are kept low but then if more speed  is needed then the power/clockrate can ramp up.

Like I said just an idiots idea


Must be a lot of idiots working at Intel, AMD and IBM then.
They do exactly what you said...
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: whabang on January 27, 2004, 11:07:32 AM
@Valan
One word:
Speedstep

It's a good idea, however Intel's poor implementation makes the experience less worthwhile.
Never tried AMD's or IBM's versions though...
Title: Re: New PowerPC 970FX, 24.5 Watts at 2GHz.
Post by: yssing on January 28, 2004, 08:11:53 AM

Why get all that excited, it's never going to get used in amigas anyway. We don't even have a new AmigaOS.


This is great news, less power consumption is really great. Can't wait till I have a superfast very slick and cool amiga laptop..