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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => General Internet News => Topic started by: angrybrit on January 20, 2004, 06:13:49 PM
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"Wired News has the 2003 Vaporware Awards (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,61935,00.html) available for your perusal. Winning the 9th place: Amiga OS 4.0 (Amiga)!"
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Amiga Inc needs to let Wired know that it's a real product.
That will happen with the commercial release.
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I wanted to play DNF! :-(
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Amiga Inc needs to let Wired know that it's a real product.
Do you mean that AInc should lie to Wired, or that AInc (?) should hurry up with the release of AOS4?
Vapourware, according to Wired (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,61586,00.html):
"As in previous years, software in a never-ending, pre-release, beta-testing stage is considered vaporware, even if it's widely available. It hasn't shipped until it's shrink-wrapped."
Uh oh, if we should take that last bit literally, AOS4 will always be considered vapourware... ;)
"Likewise hardware. Prototypes may exist in some company's lab, but it's vaporware until it hits store shelves.
And remember, if it shipped -- even if it stank -- it's not vaporware."
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"Likewise hardware. Prototypes may exist in some company's lab, but it's vaporware until it hits store shelves.
And remember, if it shipped -- even if it stank -- it's not vaporware."
If PegII didn't ship last year I would call it vapourware as well. No
matter is it being produced, being tested or developed, it is vapour
until the product is shipping for us.
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itix: It was close call woth Pegasos 2.. But they made it.
In generally, I don't understand why people are suddenly so concerned about OS4 being on that list.. Afterall, it ain't even much news because OS4 was on the same list allready a year ago...
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I don't understand why people are suddenly so concerned about OS4 being on that list..
And Amiga made the list during the Gateway fiasco IIRC.
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Perhaps Hyperion should develop MSDN style subscriptions for their WIP (Work in Progress) products....
Note that MS Windows Anvil(AMD64) beta did not make to the said vapour list since it was available as a MSDN release(a product line in it’s own right).
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I printed out a little thingy about OS 4, to put as decoration in my office, I like to add a bit of color with various computer related things of interest.
I note that the news item is 3 years old now.
OS 4 is vapor. Like some vapor products, it may be released some day. Then again, we may learn later the real truth. As a matter of fact, just now I took down the decoration and threw it in the trash. It's not pleasant to have it on my desk anymore.
its most definately not a real product, because you can't buy it. maybe someday, but I don't know anyone who is waiting anymore...maybe some folks around here.
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It is taking a long time to build. Even when the Developer CD ships it will still be in beta and still be vaporware. I agree that when after it's strink wrapped and on a shelf will it be "offically" not vaporware. However think all those Amiga One owners will be happy campers soon enought :) Us CSPPC owners are going to have to wait a bit longer.
After reading the acticle I think it's sad that of all the people to quote they picked Nate. But I'm optimistic that it got such a great responce, beating out Duke Nukem Forever and all :)
Bill "tekmage" Borsari
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put it like this , morphos for powerup is vapor , its been promised for years now , and by that i mean one which doesnt require an os3.9 install! ..
oh and last i checked morphos was beta still, or are you guys saying it aint?
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put it like this , morphos for powerup is vapor
I think you are right. There is 0.4 but it is beta and only demo (you
need a key to run it more than 2 hours). I used to be betatester but
that doesnt make it more real for you.
Hmmm.. could be funny if MorphOS (for PowerUp) was listed here with a
comment from Hyperion guys.:-D
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Then again, we may learn later the real truth.
Why not state directly that we are a bunch of liars? At least it would spare you the hassle of trying to say something that sounds like a defence.
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In generally, I don't understand why people are suddenly so concerned about OS4 being on that list
Me neither. To be honest, I am not concerned at all about being on that list. I am concerned about the usual comments I read.. Mostly because the comments come from people that have declared a vested non-interest in OS 4 in the past but cry out loudest for not being out, instead of being happy that their chosen OS is available. They rather prefer to p*** on the other people's guarden.
*That* is what I am concerned about.
But then, don't listen to me. KennyR says I'm a loon.
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Reading through all of this, I really think everyone's missing the big point. This is a list of the TOP TEN things that they were waiting on last year that didn't make it out the door.
Even listed as vaporware, I think it's a cool thing that Wired Magazine still thinks the Amiga's worth remembering as one of the TOP TEN things they were hoping to see. It isn't as though they just called it vaporware, or they called Amiga Inc idiots or anything else.
These days it's hard for any company to come out with a major technological advancement. First, you have to have;
1) A great vision.
Something to actually strive for, and money isn't it.
2) Superior leadership and management skills
More difficult than it appears usually.
3) then talent
To put it all together.
4) last but certainly not least, money. Lots and lots of money that you're willing to invest freely WITHOUT RESERVATION to make your vision a reality. People have to be free to create without having to worry whether or not they can buy groceries or make the rent.
I'm of course over-simplifying, but ANY failure along ANY of those points, and you're dead in the water and you might as well not bother. By "investing money", I don't mean buying foosball tables, an office big enough to play football in, and 100 computers for a total of 10 employees.
Wired's article may be a small slam, but at least they're still watching. I just hope that Nate doesn't hang himself with all the free rope he's given. :-)
{edit: for what it's worth, if you go by Wired's definition, OS4 may NEVER get off their list. Their definition clearly states that a product has to be "shrinkwrapped and sold on the shelves" which -- at least as I understand it -- Hyperion never intend to do. Now, if they want to list the new Amiga as vaporware, maybe that will be rectified some day.}
Wayne
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My bad, Duke Nukem beat us out :( We did get more votes then the RadioShark...
Bill "tekmage" Borsari
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My bad, Duke Nukem beat us out :( We did get more votes then the RadioShark...
We can still try if we can beat Half-Life 2...
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>Now, if they want to list the new Amiga as vaporware
No, they clearly state the hardware DID ship this year(as opposed to both hardware and OS on the list for 2002).
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Rogue: It needs a lot more than KennyR.s comment before I consider someone loon. :-)
Anyhow, It's a big archievement and finishing it will earn you a lot respect. I have no idea, if it ever becomes commercially profitable project, but that does not diminish it's other values.
Wayne: a good point.. I Agree
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@starbird80
While I don't like the A1, same as I did not like the Teron when I messed with it way back when, can't deny that it arrived on the market.
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Not shipping, lot of times it was said it was shipping then, sounds 100% vapor. I think it is safe to say that they would not make the 2004 list. I mean, by then it has to be out.
Coder
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Poster: lempkee Date: 2004/1/20 23:09:05
put it like this , morphos for powerup is vapor , its been promised for years now , and by that i mean one which doesnt require an os3.9 install! ..
oh and last i checked morphos was beta still, or are you guys saying it aint?
The last I checked this was off topic, or are you saying it isnt?
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@Coder
Let's be fair, it *could* still not have arrived by the end of 2004. It *could* be a limited beta at that point.
Face it, developing an OS is not an easy task. Add in the fact that none of the developers on OS4 have any OS experience, and the task is even more challenging. 4-5 years is fairly normal on OS development.
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>Why not state directly that we are a bunch of liars?
Why not check first what you told Ben Yoris what he
is a few months back on ann.lu?
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Looks like some of you out there gave some feedback on the article.
Rants & Raves (http://www.wired.com/news/rants/0,2350,61978,00.html)
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Please define "any OS experience". Do you have it? Did Laire have it?
Do you know exactly the people developing OS4?
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Add in the fact that none of the developers on OS4 have any OS experience,
Operating Systems was one of the topics I studied at university.
OTOH, games programming wasn't.
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Operating Systems was one of the topics I studied at university.
OTOH, games programming wasn't.
Nice point ;-)
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@Rogue
I stand corrected then.
Then would you agree or not that OS development is best measured in terms of years rather than months?
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Awesome list of vaporware products, my favourite being the RealPC emulator for Mac OSX - after Amiga OS4 ofcourse.
The amusing honesty from the new President of FWB that "not a single line of code" has been written, despite promises that the project was at beta stage was particularly funny.
Finally I love the comment here that AInc should let Wired News know that OS4 is a real product.
Assuming that it was in their interests to do so, and assuming that there is anyone left at AInc that could be bothered to respond to the article, how would you propose they go about proving OS4's existance?
A better solution would be to permanently remove themselves from the list (9th place two years running is a dubious distinction) by actually releasing products within a couple of years of the given release date.
BTW, I think a new animation would be appropriate for the AInc corporate website, maybe a tumbleweed blowing throw the empty desert to reflect the lack of anything substantial, or in fact the lack of any real people, being found at the mythical Amiga headquarters building.
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@zacman
You mean "not qualified to state such an opinion in public" ?
Read this: http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=1945&forum=3&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0
First comment in that page by Rogue ( do a search on Rogue ). Tells you everything you need to know about that.
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AmigaOS seems to be waporware for a long time now. It's difficult not to make laugh users form other plateforms. I'm trying to inform MacUsers but without concrete thing it's very hard.
Amiga OS 4 and serious hardware (with design different from PCs) is needed urgently !
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Then would you agree or not that OS development is best measured in terms of years rather than months?
It depends. I'd rather say "man-years". It always depends on where you start off, and surely we didn't start off at zero.
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Why not check first what you told Ben Yoris what he
is a few months back on ann.lu?
I knew that this would come back at one point. Yes he was right and I was wrong. I was being over-optimistic, plus I didn't forsee some trouble that would strike in the course of 2003. Don't tell me he spoke out of technical knowledge - he just wanted to contradict a dealer on a french forum.
Why did he say anything? Didn't he step down as Hyperion PR before that? Or did he? Rather confusing, don't you think? "Fired" by Hyperion in spite of having stepped down before?
The Ben Yoris affair was a bit different, though. I've stated this elsewhere, I didn't want to drag it into public again, but you may follow the link that DaveP posted if you wish.
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>Why did he say anything? Didn't he step down as
>Hyperion PR before that? Or did he? Rather
>confusing, don't you think? "Fired" by Hyperion in
>spite of having stepped down before?
"Why not state directly that [he is] liar?
At least it would spare you the hassle of trying to say
something that sounds like a defence."
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@Rogue
Neither did the Chicago team (you know, Windows 4.0/95?) yet it took them close to 5 years to deliver their update.
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Why dont you just read what Rogue posted and make your own mind up rather than trying to trip Rogue into saying whether or not he wants to label someone a liar or not?
Can you honestly say you have never lied?
If not, do you think the label "liar" is appropriate?
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"Why not state directly that [he is] liar?
I already said that he was right and I was wrong.
It's even worse. I don't think you read that posting I did on AW.net, otherwise you would know what happened. And I didn't even tell everything there.
So simply shut up. You don't have any idea what you are talking about.
@DaveP:
Give it up, man. He's not interested in hearing it. It doesn't fit his agenda.
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>I don't think you read that posting I did on AW.net
I read this nice disclaimer which tells a lot about
truth and lies.
>So simply shut up.
Maybe you should ask a moderator to delete your
account again. (Would be the first time in the new
year wouldn't it?)
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@Rogue
If you've admitted that he was right and you were wrong, how about you do something unprecedented in the history of this gigantic flamewar?
Appologize to him directly.