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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: downix on December 04, 2003, 05:55:59 PM
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Genesi today announced a new, PowerPC®-based, modular MicroATX mainboard release that brings flexibility and efficient processing power to performance-intensive applications, including desktops, workstations, servers, and communications products.
This latest MicroATX board is the most powerful and cost-effective hardware foundation for Genesi’s popular Pegasos platform, with over 1,000 users in 34 countries around the world.
The new motherboard features an IBM PowerPC 750CXe microprocessor and supports industry standards software such as Open Firmware, and multiple operating systems including distributions of Linux and BSD.
"Genesi's new PowerPC-based computer brings effective and flexible processing power to the desktop, low-end server, firewall and pervasive space at an affordable price," said Bill Buck, CEO of Genesi.
Looking forward, Mr Buck also revealed that Genesi would be working closely with IBM to release a 64-bit Pegasos workstation in 2004, based on the new IBM PowerPC 970 microprocessor.
“Today’s Pegasos release is a starting point that will enable all the operating systems developed for the PowerPC environment to begin to move in this direction with confidence and purpose," he explained.
The new Pegasos Platform is also the core for Genesi’s first commercial product designed to support the increasingly-important security infrastructure requirements of Fortune 1000 companies and large institutions.
The Pegasos Guardian provides: border protection of networks; proactive protection of network assets; and logging and auditing of suspicious network traffic.
“IT Managers must know exactly what is happening on their networks, and why,” said Buck. “The Guardian gives you a very high level of control and the new MicroATX board provides the performance platform for them to achieve this.”
Choice of the PowerPC environment enhances the security that Guardian offers: “Much of the office and network IT infrastructure in use today is x86-based,” explained Buck. “The Guardian runs on a different processor platform and is not as susceptible to the common buffer overflows that are the main entry point for security breaches.” Any element of security begins with people, procedure and enforcement, but with tools such as the Guardian IT Managers can audit and build their own code. Customers need a total security posture, and this is one component of a total security system.
Genesi developed the Guardian with partners ShopIP (http://www.shopip.com) and Diginexus (http://www.diginexus.com). The interface design and border-level protection is based on the acclaimed ShopIP Crunchbox.
Proactive protection is based on the security scanning features of Nessus (http://www.nessus.org) and the internal invisible IDS scanning features were developed and contributed by Diginexus.
Buck added, “this collaborative effort is an example of the partnerships we expect to develop in the months ahead and indicative of the many and varied potential uses for an open, powerful and efficient hardware platform.”
“IBM has worked closely with Genesi and its partners to ensure that the Pegasos platform can be configured to cover the rich variety of applications over multiple operating systems that Genesi and its partners are developing,” said Ray Bryant, Director PowerPC Products at IBM Microelectronics. “The integration of the IBM PowerPC 750CXe offers developers further opportunities to extend Pegasos’ use into the evolutionary path we have chartered for the PowerPC.”
Based on industry standards, such as Open Firmware, the Pegasos supports multiple operating systems including varieties of Linux and BSD. The Pegasos platform also comes with Genesi’s own non-UNIX, Quark-based MorphOS. Recent releases supported on the Pegasos include OpenBSD 3.4 and Debian-Installer Beta 1.
Buck added, "in the meanwhile, the strategic value of moving to a Linux Desktop is becoming increasing clear and a migration to Linux has begun. Every major commercial or non-commercial version/distribution of Linux on the market today runs on the Pegasos, including SuSE and the Novell® Nterprise Linux Service package. Getting on the network with the Pegasos Guardian and on the desktop with the Pegasos, now and in the future with the PowerPC 970, places Genesi at the forefront of these major market developments."
Genesi has served the computer hobbyist since the first Beta release of the Pegasos in 2002. Trialed and tested by over 1000 users in 34 countries, enthusiasts have configured the Pegasos in variety of fashions with over a dozen different operating systems. The Pegasos was awarded the Amiga Award 2002 by Falke Media Verlag and recently, the Pegasos was acclaimed as the future home of the Linux desktop by German Linux site PPCNUX.
The Pegasos-Guardian will make its public debut with ShopIP and Diginexus at Infosecurity 2003, at the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center in New York, December 8-11, Booth 126 and be distributed by Pegasos Resellers worldwide through the IBM Global Solutions Directory.
Genesi's "Ready for IBM Technology"-validated Pegasos systems signal the advancement of the IBM 750CXe PowerPC microprocessor family into the broader global marketplace for embedded industrial controls, military, multimedia, consumer electronic appliances, blade servers, thin client systems, storage, networking, firewalls, and communication applications. With leading edge CPU bus speed capabilities and enhanced AGP, PCI-X, SDRAM and DDR support, the combination of the Marvell Discovery II chipset and IBM PowerPC 750CXe processors offers a most desirable solution to the performance-intensive applications marketplace.
Genesi is an IBM Business Partner and carries the Ready for IBM Technology mark on five of its products, the Pegasos Guardian, Pegasos, PegXLin, MorphOS, and OpenBSD for Pegasos. The basic Pegasos featuring the IBM PowerPC processor can be purchased online for 299 Euros at http://www.pegasosppc.com (http://www.pegasosppc.com) while the Pegasos-Guardian is priced between 5000 and 15000 Euros depending on the configuration and the associated service contract. Genesi is based in Luxembourg and can be found on the web at http://www.genesi.lu. Details on the Pegasos Guardian are presented at http://www.pegasosppc.com/guardian.php (http://www.pegasosppc.com/guardian.php)
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I bet Genesi will name it the MicroPegasos :lol: :-D
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Nessus is the bomb! =)
Dammy
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@CD32Freak
This isn't about a new motherboard. Sorry for that impression. This is about a professional level network security solution using the Pegasos.
Click here to actually read about it (http://www.pegasosppc.com/guardian.php)
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@Wayne:
Well, to be perfectly fair that reads like a press release for an all-purpose computer, not a custom security solution (if all I want is a strong firewall, what do i care about all the OSs I can run on it and what impact it's going to have on hobbyists?)
That said, his emphasis on "PowerPC is not x86 and therefore more secure" is a bit naive. Security should be based on strong software auditing procedures (ie go over your code with a magnifying glass to make sure there are no buffer overflows, use of software complexity metrics, etc), not some vague assertion that the script kiddies won't know how to r00t a PPC box. Sooner or later they will, and a determined hacker won't be put off by a different instruction set.
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It's not naive, it's true.
PowerPC processors are just that little bit harder to produce exploits on than x86 processors. You have to do a LOT of legwork that x86 does for you.
There are some nice articles about this on the internet by a guy named Chris Shepherd. It's all very technical and all very true.
Granted, PowerPC isn't 100% unhackable, but.. it's not AS hackable and therefore MORE secure.
Running OpenBSD, most of those hackable bits are intrinsically protected and checked anyway, so the software backs up already superior hardware.
=Neko=
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@CodeSmith
You're absolutely right, you must not forget strong software auditing procedures even when the architecture is not x86.
However, the truth is that having other than x86 architechture limits the impact of found buffer overflows and automated worms/scripts/viruses.
Also most of the script kiddies (using exploit apps created by real hackers) are not familiar with PowerPC and are unable to root them with known buffer overflow (and in most cases the PPC instruction set limits the buffer overflow, for example it is very hard to embed PPC code to a null terminated string).
So IMO not being x86 can be seen as an additional value.
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Poster: Neko Date: 2003/12/4 15:55:59
PowerPC processors are just that little bit harder to produce exploits on than x86 processors. You have to do a LOT of legwork that x86 does for you.
So sparc or MIPS based security box should be even better then?
Granted, PowerPC isn't 100% unhackable, but.. it's not AS hackable and therefore MORE secure.
That would might be true if PPC and x86 (guess that would leave out IA-64) were running the same software. That isn't the case. Now, how about doing a nifty demonstration for us. This security device vs x86 running Linux/FireWall1-NG and let's see who can configure the which firewall with minimum problems. Afterall, the best firewall on the best hardware is worthless if it's not configured properly. :-D
Dammy
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That would might be true if PPC and x86 (guess that would leave out IA-64) were running the same software.
Why wouldn't they be?
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PowerPC processors are just that little bit harder to produce exploits on than x86 processors. You have to do a LOT of legwork that x86 does for you.
There are some nice articles about this on the internet by a guy named Chris Shepherd. It's all very technical and all very true.
http://www.belgo.org/propeller/ppc-stack-1.html (http://www.belgo.org/propeller/ppc-stack-1.html)
Assuming that it is this Chris Shephard that you mean, and after having read the three articles I can't really see that there is that much to it. Offcourse there are improvements over plain x86, but nothing that will stop a competent attacker. So IMHO using PowerPC over x86 is just security through obscurity, and nothing more.
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his is about a professional level network security solution using the Pegasos.
Cool.....
:-D
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Trialed and tested by over 1000 users in 34 countries
Correct me if I am wron but there were only 6-700 Pegasos produced.The pegasos II has been available for order for only a little over a month so that cannot add to this particular group.
This is just crap, if you are going to do this kind of advertising, make it truthful, not exageration hype and half-truths.
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Correct you if you're wrong? OK: in addition to the 600-700 Pegasos boards, Pegasos IIs have been produced and shipped to corporate customers. 100 were sent to IBM Japan, which was made public. Some obviously were sent to IBM in the US, and maybe some to other corporations. So if the "over 1000" is an exageration, it isn't much of one. But keep in mind that this is a press release, not a spec sheet or legal deposition.
-- gary_c
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Dammy wrote:
That would might be true if PPC and x86 (guess that would leave out IA-64) were running the same software. That isn't the case. Now, how about doing a nifty demonstration for us. This security device vs x86 running Linux/FireWall1-NG and let's see who can configure the which firewall with minimum problems. Afterall, the best firewall on the best hardware is worthless if it's not configured properly.
The Pegasos Guardian will be running ShopIP Crunchbox (http://shopip.com/index.html) on OpenBSD.
-- gary_c
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Poster: gary_c Date: 2003/12/4 21:29:53
The Pegasos Guardian will be running ShopIP Crunchbox on OpenBSD.
And that will do what compared to Linux/FW1-NG? How about PEg/SHopIPCrunchBox vs VPN-1 Edge (http://www.checkpoint.com/products/connect/vpn-1_edge_chart.html)? Note the prices on the latter.
Dammy
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You're absolutely right, you must not forget strong software auditing procedures even when the architecture is not x86.
Yer but thats why their using OpenBSD!
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@ dammy
I think what the press release was try to say is that the buffer overflows that break x86 boxes wont work on a PPC box. This is not the same thing as saying, PPC doesnt have buffer overflows, just that, you have to do it a lot differently.
Much of the office and network IT infrastructure in use today is x86-based,” explained Buck. “The Guardian runs on a different processor platform and is not as susceptible to the common buffer overflows that are the main entry point for security breaches.”
"x86-based" exploids wont work on PPCs. This is commensence but for some reason they wanted to spell it out. I guess everyone doesnt know the differences between the two platforms. But the point is, in an x86 world people are going to assume that you'r box is x86 and if they try to exploit it, they're not going to succseed. They only way they will is if they know the box is PPC and they change the way they exploit the box. Thats how i read it anyway!
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Dammy wrote:
And that will do what compared to Linux/FW1-NG? How about PEg/SHopIPCrunchBox vs VPN-1 Edge? Note the prices on the latter.
Those prices seem to be just the application software; the Peg/Crunchbox prices are for a complete system. Otherwise, I don't know much of anything about the pro net security market. On the plus side, it's good Genesi is getting some real-life products out, and the partnerships are real. As for the relative merits of the product, I guess that's for the market to decide. You're right -- it has to be competitive; the Guardian seems to have some positive points and presumeably a competitive price will be charged.
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Poster: gary_c Date: 2003/12/5 2:03:17
Those prices seem to be just the application software; the Peg/Crunchbox prices are for a complete system. Otherwise, I don't know much of anything about the pro net security market.
No, that's including hardware, see here (http://www.checkpoint.com/products/protect/sbcp_overview.html#smalloffice).
You're right -- it has to be competitive; the Guardian seems to have some positive points and presumeably a competitive price will be charged.
Checkpoint is the clear leader, there is nothing better then those guy's products. If Genesi with their partner are going to get in that same market, they have to have a better product and a MUCH cheaper level then what Checkpoint is offering. Edge1 appliances are something new from Checkpoint and it's going to be damn hard to compete with those pricing levels. :-o
Dammy
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I checked their site again, and see what you mean. Well, I assume the Genesi and ShopIP guys are aware of their competitors here and are lining up their product advantage ideas. Guess we'll see what happens, eh?
-- gary_c
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@dammy
I looked at Checkpoint, they do not offer the same performance level nor even close to the same features. Please compare like with like, don't grab a machine that can do only 1.5Mbps and compare with one going Gbps+ and wonder why the price is higher on the latter.
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Poster: downix Date: 2003/12/5 10:07:50
I looked at Checkpoint, they do not offer the same performance level nor even close to the same features. Please compare like with like, don't grab a machine that can do only 1.5Mbps and compare with one going Gbps+ and wonder why the price is higher on the latter.
True, these are the embedded devices which CheckPoint has recently (I had no idea that they had released these yet and shocked to see the low pricing) released for the small business needs that do not require FW1-NG. For most small to medium, those embedded VPN-1 Edge devices is overkill. For $300, the S8 delivers Firewall/VPN throughput of 22/3 Mbps, allows 8 total users to traverse the gateway, and provides 1 remote access tunnel at one time. If your looking at the upperend, the XU delivers Firewall/VPN throughput of 150/30 Mbps, allows an unlimited number users to traverse the gateway (no license limitations), and provides 25 remote access tunnels at one time.
Now, if your looking at enterprise level, CheckPoint's bells and whistles are alot highier then $15K for server/management software. Then again, out of Fortune's 100 list, 97 are CheckPoint customers. For a list of what enterprise level apps and supported hardware, check here (http://www.checkpoint.com/products/choice/platforms/platforms_matrix.html).
Dammy
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@Gary_C
even if you include the pagaos II, you are maybe hitting the 1000 mark of machines produced, but that hardly meets "trialled and tested"
In any case he is talking Pagasos, not Pegasos II or Pegasos line and/or product group.
At best it is exaggeration and inaccurate statements at worst it is blatant lies.I dont care if it is not a "deposition" or not, it IS advertising, a public statement and as such must be accurate and concise.
Quite frankly this continuing misleading conduct by BBRV/Genesi should not be tolerated! As a small business breaking into the market one would expect them to ensure there is absolutely no room for doubt and that thier integrity is beyond reproach.If it by design or mistake it basicly boils down to lies, and I am astounded why people put up with it.
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even if you include the pagaos II, you are maybe hitting the 1000 mark of machines produced, but that hardly meets "trialled and tested"
That's your interpretation. Keep in mind that these boards were sent to people who are mainly developers, who are using them actively with the intended OSs.
it basicly boils down to lies, and I am astounded why people put up with it.
No, I don't think it boils down to lies. At the worst it comes down to how you want to interpret what is meant by "Pegasos" (note the spelling, BTW) -- i.e., does it include both the original run and the Pegasos II? Things like that. I don't think this PR is any less truthful than other companies'.
-- gary_c
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I bet Genesi will name it the MicroPegasos
LOL :lol: funny :-D
Anyway, nice idea (strategy). Good luck.
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OMFG somebody dared to make a spelling mistake! Quick alert the world defense forces to this serious threat! Sheesh, get a life.
I did not "interpret" anything.
By your own words they MAY have sold 1000 boards.
Yet BBRV says that over 1000 have been trialled and tested.You say they have gone mainly to developers, BBRV say they have been supporting the hobbyist community.
Something said, something stated which is not true is a lie, be it intentional or otherwise.Hence such statements in the before mentioned press release are lies.Furthurmore either you or bbrv are lying as well as your statements are in conflict.
Considering you have never intentionally spoke mis truth and also considering the track record of bbrv i will assume bbrv is lying some more making that entire section of the press statement little more than wishful fabrication.
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And where is that conflict between those statements ?
"hobbyis community" and "developers" aren't mutal exclusive, and I'm
sure I can do a lot of trialing and testing :-P
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@Ion
You say they have gone mainly to developers, BBRV say they have been supporting the hobbyist community.
To be quite blunt, most of the hobbyist community ARE developers. While VERY talented, the Amiga community doesn't have any developers left which would not be classified as hobbyists. After all, none of the developers, including Nova Design is able to make a real living off of Amiga software.
Remember very clearly however that the community that we are discussing isn't necessarily just the Amiga community. I can state unequivocably that there have been over a thousand sold, most are in the hands of real users which happen to be developers as well.
In regards to the community support issue, we have spent a GREAT deal of time, sweat, and money over the last year or so supporting this community (and others). See the events calendar at http://pegasosppc.com/community.php (http://pegasosppc.com/community.php) if you care to doubt that fact.
In fact, the amount of attention and support that Genesi is giving this community (and others) by FAR outweighs any other prospects at the moment, so in my mind, your argument regarding community support is a bit of denial.
Wayne Hunt
Web Presence Manager
Genesi USA
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I think what the press release was try to say is that the buffer overflows that break x86 boxes wont work on a PPC box. This is not the same thing as saying, PPC doesnt have buffer overflows, just that, you have to do it a lot differently.
Buffer overflows is programming structure issue. For example, the deployment of PowerPC doesn’t rescue the flaws of Samba. It doesn’t solve the issue IF people just copy the source code and port it on their preferred ecosystem.
x86-based" exploids wont work on PPCs. This is commensence but for some reason they wanted to spell it out. I guess everyone doesnt know the differences between the two platforms. But the point is, in an x86 world people are going to assume that you'r box is x86 and if they try to exploit it, they're not going to succseed. They only way they will is if they know the box is PPC and they change the way they exploit the box. Thats how i read it anyway!
No quite common sense IF one looks into an open source ecosystem.
In most cases, buffer overflows has nothing to do with HW i.e. refer to
http://www.itworld.com/nl/lnx_sec/12182001/
http://www.secunia.com/advisories/8533/
Note the inclusion of MacOS X i.e. a PowerPC box.
It’s an issue with sloppy programming...
Also refer to
http://www.ciac.org/ciac/bulletins/l-104.shtml
-104: SuSE Linux, xinetd Buffer Overflow
July 3, 2001 23:00 GMT
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PROBLEM: SuSE Linux, xinetd has a buffer overflow vulnerability
PLATFORM: i386 Intel Platform: SuSE-6.3,6.4,7.0, 7.1, 7.2 Sparc Platform: SuSE-7.1 AXP Alpha Platform: SuSE-6.3,6.4,7.0, 7.1 PPC Power PC Platform: SuSE-6.4,7.0, 7.1
DAMAGE: The buffer overflow vulnerability allows a remote attacker to execute arbitrary code at all privleges.
SOLUTION: Apply patches supplied by SuSE
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VULNERABILITY
ASSESSMENT: The risk is HIGH. The vulnerability results in a root compromise, it is remotely exploitable, and is widely publicized
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Assuming that it is this Chris Shephard that you mean, and after having read the three articles I can't really see that there is that much to it. Offcourse there are improvements over plain x86, but nothing that will stop a competent attacker. So IMHO using PowerPC over x86 is just security through obscurity, and nothing more.
PPC was not a guarantee to shield from Samba buffer overflow issue i.e. refer to
http://www.secunia.com/advisories/8533/
MacOS X was also hit by Samba's buffer overflows.
Related References
Buffer Overflow Attacks and Their Countermeasures
http://www.home.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6701
gcc bounds checking patch
http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/Haj.Ten.Brugge/
Stackshield
http://www.angelfire.com/sk/stackshield/index.html
StackGuard
http://www.immunix.org/stackguard.html
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@wayne
as usual your "facts" are a little on the cream cheese side of hard.I can state unequivocably that there has actually been fewer than 200 sold.Does not make it true does it.
Where I *might* believe 1000 pegasos I and pegasos II machinrs have been produced combined, I doubt that figure is too close to how many have actually been sold.Yet that is neither here nor there.
The fact remains, this board has been available for order for little over a month.(The Pegasos II board) and bu the time you get those boards to customers, then they put it together and THEN "trial and test" the thing, it leave a bit to be desired for anything approaching acceptable "rigorous testing" you could barely make a premliminary power consumtion test in that time. THEN you have to assume every customer that has recieved one of these boards has "tested and trialled' them. By this I mean a formal test and trial procedures with results recorded and so on.
Sorry has not happened.
Community support? I never mentioned anything about community support.Also please define what you consider is "This community"
I agree, you guys have spent alot of time and effort in this community, "there is no Mai with out April" "Gary Hare as CEO" and a courtcase I believe. Thats real constructive stuff, and just the tip of it.
FInally, I never said impled or inferred that a hobbyist is not a developer, if you really wanna get pedantic you could say that everyone that uses a computer is a "developer" as everyone that uses a computer is developing something.
Now finally, I never said anything about community support and my entire comment is simply that the press statement in question was, and still is at best exageration, and at worst a further attempt to mislead the public with misinformation in the same way it so often has done in the past.This boils down to its just more lies and I dont understand why the community puts up with them.
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That's ok. I for some reason thought that you were not an idiot. Shows what I know.
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Well, you are doing a great job for Genesi!
Shows once again the integrity of Genesi that it's employees and even the guy (according to his previous signature) responsible for web presence, has to go around insulting and name calling people.
Great job, I am sure this is just the image your employers want.