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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: Elwood on October 22, 2003, 04:02:13 PM
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After my review (http://elwoodb.free.fr/articles/AmigaOne/) about the AmigaOne you have probably already read (available here (http://elwoodb.free.fr/articles/AmigaOne), Alan Redhouse sent to me a reply that should be interesting for everyone.
From Alan Redhouse, Eyetech:
"UBoot is under constant development and refinement by Hyperion, But documentation has been difficult to obtain and I, particularly, have been pushing Hyperion to press on with OS4 rather than continuously tinker with and polish UBoot - there are only 2 Friedens! The k/b reset problem only occurs with out of spec keyboards in our experience. Typing 'reset' at the UBoot prompt always works with a Radeon 7000 card in our experience.
There may be some problems with a Voodo card - I don't know - we do not have one!
A second problem is that it is only practical to flash UBoot at the factory, so there is an inevitable several week lag between us submitting the boot code (which comes from us, not MAI) to the factory to build a batch of boards, and those boards reaching earlybird users such as yourself. This period can be typically 6-8 weeks. It is for that reason that that we have now asked the factory to remove software protection from the ROM so it can be reflashed by earlybird purchasers.
Finally please do not fall into the trap so frequently set up by some people - that this is really a MAI designed and produced product and that we merely resell what we are given.
MAI contracted out the original design, and jointly we have drawn up specifications for the current (and future) board versions to ensure that they are cost effective and saleable. This spec has then been given to a third party specialist to design into a manufacturable board. Our supply contract is directly with the factory, not with MAI. Although we have a close working relationship with MAI, we have materially dictated the board design and specifications, and have placed and funded the build.
Cheers
Alan"
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I don't think anyone "set up" traps or feelings that Eyetech is merely a reseller of MAI boards.
But it is no lie that the Teron CX, PX, and Eyetech's AmigaOne lines are very very similar, perhaps barring some cost-efficiency changes, and a few extra minor features.
It is one thing to tweak a motherboard design that someone else made and get another company to bring it to profitability for you.
It is another altogether to design one from scratch, in-house, and produce it using your own means.
This is the difference I think people are "setting up", and believe me, it is not a trap to build your machines not far from your head office, and have your chief engineers stand over the production lines!
Eyetech are doing the A1-Lite, via a 3rd-party outfit, with close collaborations with MAI. That doesn't change the nature of the AmigaOne - a tweaked reference board, built in Taiwan, 2 weeks away shipping time..
AmigaOne-Lite is going to be a new board, but currently is merely a shrunken version of the A1, with a Radeon stuck in the middle.
Drawing up specifications is a lofty task indeed!
I can do that, and I'm no hardware designer. Even Fleecy can do it!
PowerPC!
PCI slots!
AGP!
64MB of Memory!!!!
.. which footballer shall we name it after? :)
=Neko=
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Another Day Another anti Amiga & Eyetech Bash :roll:
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> .. which footballer shall we name it after?
Gazza. :-P
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@JurassicCamper:
Another Day Another anti Amiga & Eyetech Bash
You didn't seriously expect Matt to praise them did you? ;-)
BTW, cheers for the Voodoo info - appreciated.
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It is after reading this post that I have decided I haven't a clue about the hardware or software of computers. as long as it runs lovely playable games I'm alright.
As far as I know voodoo is something evil and part of black magic and should never be touched. Good for eyetech for not dabbling with it! ;-)
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Neko said:
But it is no lie that the Teron CX, PX, and Eyetech's AmigaOne lines are very very similar, perhaps barring some cost-efficiency changes, and a few extra minor features.
They are identical. Even Alan has quit pretending otherwise by now.
I don't see why Eyetech sees people stating this simple fact as "setting up traps" or whatever.
Why do some people apparently see this as "trolling"? The hardware is identical, and there's nothing "bad" about Eyetech "merely" (Alan's wording) being a reseller. It's a good thing of course. Does anyone really think that Mai would choose to sell older revisions, or revisions with less features, than a reseller like Eyetech? Mai still owns the design.
The division of markets is an artificial creation, it has nothing to do with imagined differences between hardware. That artificial division between an "AmigaOS hardware market" and the "hardware market for everybody else" is where the smaller volumes come from. That's where the higher price for Terons (or any future licensed hardware) when sold by Eyetech (or any future licensee) comes from. Et c.
Alan Redhouse said:
The k/b reset problem only occurs with out of spec keyboards in our experience.
The specification I believe is PS/2. Are people trying to use non-PS/2 keyboards, or is there an additional secret specification?
A second problem is that it is only practical to flash UBoot at the factory, so there is an inevitable several week lag between us submitting the boot code (which comes from us, not MAI) to the factory to build a batch of boards, and those boards reaching earlybird users such as yourself. This period can be typically 6-8 weeks. It is for that reason that that we have now asked the factory to remove software protection from the ROM so it can be reflashed by earlybird purchasers.
6-8 weeks? Maybe they should look into transferring the firmware images by FTP or e-mail, instead of shipping them saved on floppies by rowboat to Taiwan? FFS, doesn't he understand himself how ridiculous this sounds? It'd be quicker to solder a *PROM burner from an Aminet description and flash the chips inhouse at Eyetech before shipping each board!
Is he honestly suggesting that they have until now sold Terons with the firmware chips DELIBERATELY write protected? Part of that "added value", I presume... :P
There's a trait of paranoia to the whole text. Who set a "trap" to make people believe that Mai manufactures anything? Very confusing. Doesn't everyone know that Mai is not a manufacturer?
we have materially dictated the board design and specifications
:D
That's cute. And so flexible to interpret. Does Eyetech's hardware design department share offices with AInc's legal department? ;)
One word: "Zico"
:P
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Gazza.
But will Gazza have a "next generation Matrox graphics card"?
:D
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AmigOne is a blah, blah, blah...
A Mercedes is a Volkwagon under the bonnet.
An MG is a sports tuned Rover 75....
Does it matter. OS 5 is intended to be hardware independent.
Personally, I wouldn't have cared if they had taken a really nice X86 board and dongalised it and wrote OS 4 for that.
Hardware is fast enough now for most people's needs. Bottom line is give it a few years and it'll all blend into one soup of irrelevance :-) - Its the OS that counts,...
Though that isn't strictly the only reason why we back our respective horses, and have these disscusions.....
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@Bobsonsirjonny
I agree.I Just hope os4 or os5 make it to the PC or
even Mac and AmigaDE takes off as it makes sense .
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OS 5 can run on a vacuum cleaner for all I care. As long as it works and is good and sells millions...
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Personally, I wouldn't have cared if they had taken a really nice X86 board and dongalised it and wrote OS 4 for that.
Doesn't that defy the point of running it on x86?
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@Neko:
>Drawing up specifications is a lofty task indeed!
I don't see how this comment is related to Eyetech work. It's not a post about AInc.
@Seehund:
>Are people trying to use non-PS/2 keyboards
I don't think "specification" is precise enough to think it describes the PS2 interface specification.
Anyway, this Uboot problem is far from being a pain. It's just annoying and it will be corrected in the future.
>6-8 weeks? Maybe they should look into transferring the firmware images by email
??? It's not only transfering the bios file. Alan said it is the time needed to produce the complete board + shipping them. Please read again.
Bye
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Another Day Another anti Amiga & Eyetech Bash
:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(
W A1 :-)
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@elwood:
Btw regarding your review you wrote some time ago... When I read your
review first time I recall you mentioned on-board audio there. Later
on I was going to make a question about it but could not find this
audio from review at all.
I just wonder if my memory is weak and I remember wrong? Or did it
change? :-D
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It is for that reason that that we have now asked the factory to remove software protection from the ROM so it can be reflashed by earlybird purchasers.
Probably a good thing....
Would not be good to have to wait 6-8 weeks for a reflash...
Can hardly wait for OS4....... Please tell us shipping is in Dec '03 or Jan 04... please.... :-) :-) :-) :-)
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The specification I believe is PS/2. Are people trying to use non-PS/2 keyboards, or is there an additional secret specification?
Some keyboard's reset times are so long that the firmware thinks there is nothing connected. If there isn't an ACK from the keyboard controller after a specific time, it will assume that there is no keyboard connected.
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@Elwood:
I don't see how this comment is related to Eyetech work. It's not a post about AInc.
When Alan Redhouse says this:
Although we have a close working relationship with MAI, we have materially dictated the board design and specifications
I can make jokes about how they dictated specifications. Alan Redhouse "materially dictating specifcations" is just as bad, if not worse, than Fleecy doing it.
I like the idea of a Gazza <-> G2 Amiga platform, it fits well, better than "Zico" :)
=Neko=
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@Seehund:
In Eyetech's defense, there are some relatively dodgy PS/2 keyboards out there, and more intriguingly, some even dodgier KVM boxes (unfortunately I own a cheap 4-way KVM, and they cause havoc with my Pegasos - hold down shift, and tap an arrow key to jump to end of line or whole pages in GoldED or a Shell, and the entire input system goes haywire.. this is a keyboard issue, I'm told, because my KVM is screwing everything up)
=Neko=
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@mikeymike
Not at all, as it would be Cheaper and Faster than the 2 PPC options the Amiga Community has now. And there wouldn't be any supply problems.
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Bobsonsirjonny said,
A Mercedes is a Volkwagon under the bonnet.
You mean Audi. Mercedes are Chryslers now, though more vice-versa, as we'd like to hope it goes both ways...
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The k/b reset problem only occurs with out of spec keyboards in our experience.
Har. This is PC hardware we're talking about. What on earth is "in spec"? :-)
But will Gazza have a "next generation Matrox graphics card"?
Hopefully not. By the time OS4 is realeased, the price of the Parhelia may actually drop below $300!
Hardware is fast enough now for most people's needs. Bottom line is give it a few years and it'll all blend into one soup of irrelevance - Its the OS that counts,...
It already has been that way for years. When I bought my A1200, I tried to convince my family that the Amiga had a better, more effecient architecture, and blah blah blah. My uncle said that PC's are so fast it doesn't matter. Ten years later, millions of PCs sell every year.
Yes, hardware is just a means to an end.
Doesn't that defy the point of running it on x86?
No, just the point of running it on vanilla PC motherboards. You should see how many x86 machines I use at work that have hardware dongles, not only to make sure you don't run the software on another computer, but also so you can't upgrade the CPU, memory, hard drive, or whatever, without completely breaking the software. *ALL* upgrades must be official and authorized, or else the machine won't boot. This is the norm in the workstation market, something most consumers don't ever have the pleasure of experiencing.
Kodak charged us $5,000 to upgrade our dual 450 Mzh Xeon system to dual 800 Mhz processors, without changing ANYTHING else. That's the world of hardware control, for you.
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You mean Audi. Mercedes are Chryslers now, though more vice-versa, as we'd like to hope it goes both ways...
Volkswagen is a HUGE company, and owns several chains of auto labels. But, that doesn't mean every car sold under their management is a Volkswagen.
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A Mercedes is a Volkwagon under the bonnet.
You mean Audi. Mercedes are Chryslers now, though more vice-versa, as we'd like to hope it goes both ways...
Mercedes are still designed and built completely
independant of anything Chrysler (essentially,
the original merger consisted of the Daimler -
Benz corporation 'buying out' 51% of Chrysler).
The official word was "the product lines
will remain separate."
From a realistic perspective, I imagine that
technologies will be shared between the two
where cost effective...but you will not be
seeing rebadged Chrysler products in your
Mercedes ala Ford/Jaguar. I imagine the closest
example may be the M class, but they aren't
"real" Mercedes anyway...if you want a real
Mercedes utility vehicle buy a G - Wagen or
Unimog. ;)
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@-D-
Don't go to your local Chrysler dealer then. They have this little coupe called the CrossFire, it's got a Merc motor under the hood.
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@-D-
Nope,you buy an old MB-Trac ;-)
(a tractor, no truck that is)
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@downix
Pretty cool for Chrysler fans! But you won't see
Chrysler designed drivetrain products in a
Mercedes (thank god!)...
@kronos
LOL! :) M-B tractors are a rarity over here :)
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If we were to talk about the creation of the world I'm sure there are those eager to expound at length on what shoddy work He did and how it could have been done in six days, or even five. I'm sure we'd hear that a dachshund is really a poodle with shorter hair ... ad infinitum.
There is really no way to convey to these guys how tiresome they are and how unwelcome, trivial, and tedious their speculations are.
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@ itix:
I don't remember any mention of "onboard audio" myself ! I talked about the sound driver for Debian not yet done.
@Rogue:
Thanks for the information.
Have a nice day everyone....
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@-D-
It is sacrilidge. (and actually next year you will find Chrysler motors in Mercedes)
They're merging the two motor lineups together. Already previously Chrysler-only features (such as polyheads) are showing up in Mercedes motors.
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I don't remember any mention of "onboard audio" myself ! I talked about the sound driver for Debian not yet done.
Hmm.. But it is this on-board (AC97) audio not working in
Debian, right? :-D
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(and actually next year you will find Chrysler motors in Mercedes)
Downix do you have a link for that?? ...Chrysler is in
a much better position to benefit technologically,
...and I still imagine you will NOT be seeing an
American designed and built engine in a Mercedes
(or I will eat my f-ing shoe, I promise!! :)
Already previously Chrysler-only features (such as polyheads) are showing up in Mercedes motors.
Well, the "polyspherical" head was basically
Chrysler's custom take of the "hemi", really nothing
special. Mercedes has had it's own "hemi" shaped
heads long before the "big three" (as well as other
niceties, like overhead cams/valves, use of light
alloys -even magnesium- and fuel injection (1954
300SL, or 1936 if you count Diesel injection...actually
you saw all of the above in the 300SL;)).
But Chrysler and Mercedes had been in bed long
before the "merger"...even in the '70's M-B used
some of Chrysler's A/C components. But my main
point is that you will not find a rebadged, American
designed and built Chrysler motor or chassis in a
Mercedes.
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@-D-
http://www.autoworld.com/news/Chrysler/SLR.htm (http://www.autoworld.com/news/Chrysler/SLR.htm)
The motor being used is, from all reports, the bigger-than-big block that Chrysler introduced 3-4 years ago for it's racing teams Of course that has been reworked by the German company.
In the end, there won't be "Mercedes" nor "Chrysler" motors. They are being blended, making a much more powerful design in the end..
Now, JUST RELEASE THE FRIGGIN CHARGER!
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Hmmm...no Chrysler engine in the SLR, it looks
like Mercedes is giving AMG "carte blanche" on
this one (besides MB build their own kick - ass
V8's). Believe me dude those snobby German
engineers would never have it in "their" cars..;)
Dig this:
AMG Supercharged V8 Power
Under the SLR's hood lurks a supercharged V8 engine developed and built by Mercedes-AMG. Delivering well over 600 horsepower for 0-to-60 miles-per-hour acceleration of about 3.7 seconds, each SLR engine is hand-built at AMG's manufacturing facility. The engine's dry-sump lubrication system -- originally developed for race cars to prevent oil starvation during extremely hard cornering -- includes a remote oil tank that eliminates any conventional oil pan or sump, allowing the engine to be mounted lower in the frame for better aerodynamics and an even lower center of gravity. The powerplant is also mounted in a front mid-engine position, largely behind the front wheels.
http://www.womanmotorist.com/index.php/news/main/2431/event=view
http://www.twistgrip.co.za/cars_SLR_engine.htm
This is actually pretty cool. The old 450 SEL 6.9's
also used dry - sump lubrication (for a giant, 4 - door
sedan!).
Now, JUST RELEASE THE FRIGGIN CHARGER!
Now we are in complete agreement on something!:-D
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@Seehund
The specification I believe is PS/2. Are people trying to use non-PS/2 keyboards, or is there an additional secret specification?
Out of spec or not, it does appear that there are some keyboards which misbehave. It's been an issue on Amithlon too, with the blame similarly thrown at development rather than out of spec hardware by those who would have the developer look bad.
6-8 weeks? Maybe they should look into transferring the firmware images by FTP or e-mail, instead of shipping them saved on floppies by rowboat to Taiwan? FFS, doesn't he understand himself how ridiculous this sounds? It'd be quicker to solder a *PROM burner from an Aminet description and flash the chips inhouse at Eyetech before shipping each board!
I think you failed to read what he wrote. He didn't say 6-8 week for the code to reach Taiwan. He said 6-8 weeks before boards based on that code reach the users. This is not unreasonable really.
Yes, there is a hint of paranoia in the statement, but then there's a whole siege mentality to the entire "red" camp when you look at it dispassionately. Then again, it would help if people cut them a little slack and didn't attack every single word they say. Face, both "red" and "blue" camps put a lot of "spin" in their announcements.
(and no, I'm not jumping into the "red" camp or defending Eyetech. Certainly their product is the least attractive to me as a buyer, but they don't deserve to be flamed for that reason alone)
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It is for that reason that that we have now asked the factory to remove software protection from the ROM so it can be reflashed by earlybird purchasers.
Does this mean that non-earlybird purchasers will not be allowed to compile and flash their own versions of the Free Software U-Boot firmware? If so, that's... infuriating :madashell:, not to say... alarmingly stupid :crazy:.
I know of no other board as mainstream as the AmigaOne with Free firmware. It has no competition in that regard. To lose such a major selling point (at least for some of us) by artificially crippling the board for the sake of some useless "software protection" cannot be the plan of a sane business person.
Am I right or am I wrong?