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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: Palpatine on October 20, 2003, 05:22:06 PM

Title: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Palpatine on October 20, 2003, 05:22:06 PM
CyberStorm Warranty Repairs
As mentioned on the thread at Amiga.org (http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2633) earlier, all CyberStorm boards sent in under warranty will be replaced by new ones. The production of these is partly done, the PCB's are there with all lower part components fitted. The problem currently is the lack of availability of the right 68K sockets. The ones that were originally used for the Phase5 and later DCE productions were specially made for Phase5 and are no longer being manufactured. However, there are several investigations ongoing at other manufacturers to adapt existing (and available) connectors to be fitted to the CyberStorm PCB's. Once this is solved, the production will be completed and all involved will receive new CyberStorm cards under warranty.
 
Non-Warranty Repairs
All non-warranty repair customers should have had a price quote from me. The repairs that could be done have been completed and all cards have been sent back or will be sent back in the next week. There are also repairs that are pending awaiting CPU sockets (see above).
 
Please read more below ...

Non-Repairable Items
Repairs that could not be done have also been sent back or will be next week. Several cards have been sent back by DCE already, others (http://www.compcity.nl/repairs.JPG) will be returned by me from Rotterdam next week
 
Other Factors
During investigating the whole repairs issue, several disturbing things have come to my attention. There are cases of repairs not being done because they have been submitted through a reseller that has had outstanding invoices for three years, and also cases where repairs were done and sent back to a reseller, who then sold them as new products. I will not disclose specific information but just wanted to state this in DCE's defence, they're not always the one to blame...
 
Genesi Gesture
As a gesture from Genesi, there will be a new release of MorphOS for 'classic Amiga' PowerPC cards available for free. The planned release is at the end of this year.

DCE <> GENESI
Several people have opted thier concern in the Amiga.org thread about possible future repairs at DCE for Genesi products. First of all, please consider that the Amiga repairs are a special situation and it is not common for repairs to take this long, not even for DCE. Furthermore, anyone buying a PegasosII is dealing with Genesi, not with DCE. If there is a case where a Genesi product needs repair or replacement, Genesi will see to it that it happens the right way and in a decent timeframe. For reference see our history with the mainboard exchanges for April and April2 fixed boards. These were made at DCE too! :-)
 
Preliminary Conclusion
Apart from the wait for the right 68K sockets, most issues are either done or will be in the next week. There are however still some unallocated cards at DCE. Anyone that also thinks they have an outstanding repair at DCE and has not been in contact with me yet, please do so NOW, as we are working towards concluding the whole operation and at some point soon we will not take on any more investigations.
If you have sent in your repair to a reseller be sure to mention which one explicitely.

Contact - rvanherk@nl.genesi.lu

Regards,

Ron van Herk
Genesi
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: downix on October 20, 2003, 05:33:46 PM
A good job all around for this.

One puzzling thought, however, remains.  Namely, is there a possibility of new PPC cards for the classic hardware?
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: bloodline on October 20, 2003, 05:36:47 PM
MorphOS for my Blizzard? that sounds nice ;)
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Palpatine on October 20, 2003, 05:38:06 PM
Quote
One puzzling thought, however, remains. Namely, is there a possibility of new PPC cards for the classic hardware?


Not from DCE...

Cheers,
Ron
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: downix on October 20, 2003, 05:43:30 PM
@bloodline

I'd say the same thing, but I sold off my Blizzard awhile ago.  I prefer my Pegasos now anyways.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: amigamad on October 20, 2003, 05:47:05 PM
If you have amiga,s that need repair you should send them here http://www.amiga.fr/ (http://www.amiga.fr/)

most people seem to recomend them for fast and polite service.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: KennyR on October 20, 2003, 05:50:24 PM
There's something about this announcement that reminds me of the Berlin Wall coming down.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: PulsatingQuasar on October 20, 2003, 06:03:57 PM
I think it would be a shame if these cards are not build anymore. I hope these things will continue to be made in the future.

I now have 3 BlizzardPPC cards.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Madgun68 on October 20, 2003, 06:31:50 PM
Just out of curiosity, is there some reoccuring theme as to what causes these things to break down? Just wondering because it seems like the Cyberstorm cards have problems but the BlizzardPPC cards don't.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: JoannaK on October 20, 2003, 07:26:38 PM
KennyR: Everythign has to come to an end someday.. Those PPC
boards for Am1200/A4000 are years old technology and are no longer
feasible to make/maintain. And they are the only ones ever made for
Amiga, no other ever accomplished the same.

And nowdays.. those peope who did original designs have new plans and
new products to make.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: System on October 20, 2003, 08:29:57 PM
While new PPC boards for Classic Amigas would be rather cute, in my eyes, it does seem more like a labour of love-style venture (like the Coldfire accelerators) than a real business venture.

Considering how much a new PowerPC board would cost these days - the original phase5 boards cost well in excess of £600 when brand new. Even with lowered costs of parts, without the m68k, without scsi, even without any special peripherals (USB, ATA), I doubt you could find a way to make a board that complex - and remind yourself this is just a PPC and a DIMM socket - for very cheap.

If you do look at the costs in a realistic way you will see that the best solution is...




.. by far ..




.. and by no mistake ..





.. buy a Pegasos!

For $299 you can get a 600MHz "Amiga", and run most of your old software over it. It'll be 10 times the performance of any accelerator hack, and you get goodies like ATA100, USB, Firewire, commodity RAM support (no more ZIPs and SIMMs - DDR is here, baby!), networking, and the ability to use AGP graphics cards (yay!)

Keep your old Amiga to the side to run all those old games on. Hell - pass the composite video cable into your Radeon AIW, and play them on your MorphOS desktop (I hope that's implemented now I said that ;)
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: bloodline on October 20, 2003, 08:33:13 PM
Neko!!! your avitar looks just like you ;-)
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: amigamad on October 20, 2003, 08:40:32 PM
Quote
For $299 you can get a 600MHz "Amiga


But thats the point its not an amiga. :-?
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: takemehomegrandma on October 20, 2003, 08:50:02 PM
Quote
Keep your old Amiga to the side to run all those old games on. Hell - pass the composite video cable into your Radeon AIW, and play them on your MorphOS desktop (I hope that's implemented now I said that ;)


 :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o

 :-)
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: takemehomegrandma on October 20, 2003, 08:51:08 PM
Quote
But thats the point its not an amiga.

That's why he wrote "Amiga"  :-P ;-)
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: FarQuad on October 20, 2003, 09:15:47 PM
@amigamad,

Quote
But thats the point its not an amiga.
In case you haven't noticed, no one makes Amiga computers any more.  I don't care how you want to defend it, and it doesn't matter whether you want Eyetech's solution or Genesi's.  The only possible solution that you can get now are "Amiga Compatible" systems.

If Amiga Inc fails tomorrow, are you going to still rabidly defend the AmigaOne because they licensed (and some say killed) some intangible piece of paper which was labelled "Amiga trademarks"?

AmigaOne != Amiga just because someone wants to call it that.  MorphOS runs Amiga software, AmigaOS 4.0 reportedly runs Amiga software.  There is *NO* AmigaOS 4.0 software, so what the hell is the big fury over that?

The only safe bet here is to back the company who is actually producing something and have the money and business plan to back it up.  Bill Buck is meeting with Senators and Wall street attorneys.  He's also showing off the Pegasos to high tech businesses and selling the boards by the hundreds.    What's Bill McEwen doing these days aside from hiding in Montana getting his nails done?

//FarQ
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Warface on October 20, 2003, 09:18:28 PM
Nice Gesture as always.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Ryu on October 20, 2003, 09:42:30 PM
as ever the same only argument goes on.... I really do wish you lot arguing over the same things day in day out would just STFU once in a while....
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Hooligan_DCS on October 20, 2003, 09:47:22 PM
>AmigaOne != Amiga just because someone wants to call it that. MorphOS runs Amiga software, AmigaOS 4.0 reportedly runs Amiga software. There is *NO* AmigaOS 4.0 software, so what the hell is the big fury over that?



The same old: lacks the Name
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Damion on October 20, 2003, 09:49:07 PM
Definately a nice gesture from Genesi...and also
the availability of MOS for the older systems for
free.

Quote

There's something about this announcement that reminds me of the Berlin Wall coming down.


:lol:
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: amigamad on October 20, 2003, 09:58:27 PM
Quote
The only possible solution that you can get now are "Amiga Compatible" systems.


Your wrong the amigaone would not be called an amiga if it was not an amiga that would be plain stupid. :-?
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: cdfr on October 20, 2003, 10:14:24 PM
@Amigamad

Does this mean that if AmigaInc goes down and Eyetech has to sell an EyetechOne running HyperionOS4 all of the people using this argument will not buy these and wait for someone producing new Amigas ?  :-o
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: FarQuad on October 20, 2003, 10:16:00 PM
Quote
Your wrong the amigaone would not be called an amiga if it was not an amiga that would be plain stupid.
It can't be any more stupid than your argument.  

If Microsoft (Amiga Inc's "major partner", remember?) were to create an x86 system and call it "an Amiga", would that make it "an Amiga"?  Of course not.  How does Eyetech calling their repackaged Teron motherboard "an Amiga" make it an "Amiga"?  Hyperion doesn't even have an Operating System and if they did, it will be HyperionOS, so I won't even fight that section of the argument.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: bloodline on October 20, 2003, 10:27:56 PM
FarQuad is right, there is no such thing as an Amiga any more. Other than Price there is almost nothing to tell the Pegasos1 and the AmigaONE apart (Firmware is not an issue since, Any OS could be bootstraped by any firmware)

There aren't any real computers anymore, just a collection of interchangable parts.

The Computer has become a commodity! All the internal components are commodities!

A badge/lable/sticker does not make an Amiga. There are no more amigas, just as there aren't any more spectrums or amstrads etc...

Imagine if one were to have clung tothe C64 (I know many did) and refused to look at the Amiga, unless it had been called the Commodore1000... it's weird, raelly weird.

Amiga is now about the community, and it should be about the community taking control of it's own ideal of how a computing platform should be, be that PPC or x86... be it closed source or open source... be it custom hardware (does that exist any more) or industry standard...

We get to choose now! not some company!! Enjoy it, it may be your last chance!!!
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Hooligan_DCS on October 20, 2003, 10:32:49 PM
My two cents.

first cent:
AmigaOne is not an Amiga until AmigaOS4 is finally being ran on it. And I don't mean quick-grab-together-it-runs-lets-have-a-party, but a real enduser Operating System which can be used in every day use.
(Yes, this hold even if some people would want to run Linux on it after OS4 is released, for some obscure reason :-) )

second cent:
If MorphOS were to be called AmigaOS4 today, pretty much everybody would be happy happy joy joy praising how good it is. But as it's not, we're always facing these same comments and semi-discussions. In the end the only thing it really lacks is the name.


the name of the game -abba
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: opi on October 20, 2003, 11:22:52 PM
@TheHooli

 Aaaaaaamen to that!
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Floid on October 20, 2003, 11:33:19 PM
KennyR said,
Quote
There's something about this announcement that reminds me of the Berlin Wall coming down.
Between this and OS4, you know the world's about to end.  :-o

Hats off to people doing the right thing.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: System on October 20, 2003, 11:47:23 PM
Quote
Neko!!! your avitar looks just like you :)


I know, it's great isn't it? :)

My nail varnish is blue today, though ;)

=Neko=
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Acill on October 20, 2003, 11:49:10 PM
@Ron
Awsome news! I decided yesterday that I was not going to be getting an AmigaOne and ordered a new G4@1000 Pegasos II system. MOS is so clean and it runs all the Amiga Apps I like to use, plus new stuff made just for MOS. It has the feel of an Amiga I love so much and more. I cant wait to get my CSPPC card back and now be able to run MOS on that as well!!

I know a lot of you love Amiga, but I think Amiga Inc. has lost touch. They have no OS out yet, the system they sell is way out of date now, and I have yet to see any good developers. Genesi is on a mission and sprading the word all over the world showing ACTUAL systems with the ACTUAL OS you will get with that system. Something Amiga Inc.should have done from the start!
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: System on October 21, 2003, 12:21:12 AM
Quote
Your wrong the amigaone would not be called an amiga if it was not an amiga that would be plain stupid


Well.. slap me with a haddock and call ME an Amiga.

If I wanted a Linux box, I'd have one. As it stands, I don't quite like Linux (BSD rules more) so there's little chance of me buying a box simply to run some boring KDE desktop.

I have a Pegasos not because I slavered and drooled for one and had to spend my money on it asap, I have one because I wrote Amiga software once, and migrated to writing MorphOS software - and I got one as part of my job  at Genesi, which was good, since my PPC Amiga died a hideous, drive-scorching death. I loved that bit of kit, having a PPC A1200 was something unashamedly geeky yet cool (and I had the best one too, onboard SCSI and a BVision and everything.. yeaaahhh!!!)

The Pegasos is a neat replacement for it, but I know it's not an Amiga. I don't expect it to be. I don't hanker for that Amiga feeling. I just need to do my work. If I can create something neat on it, that is what makes it cool. Not "how Amiga-like" it is.

Amiga is what you make of it. For a lot of people, a Pegasos running MorphOS is as Amiga as it gets these days - certainly a lot more Amiga than running Linux and UAE with MacOnLinux minimized in the background.

But if Linux and UAE and MacOnLinux was my job, I'd run it anyway, whatever they called it.

=Neko=
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Tomas on October 21, 2003, 03:33:50 AM
Quote
AmigaOne != Amiga just because someone wants to call it that. MorphOS runs Amiga software, AmigaOS 4.0 reportedly runs Amiga software. There is *NO* AmigaOS 4.0 software, so what the hell is the big fury over that?

AmigaONE=An amiga because it is officially supported and licensed by AmigaINE, it does not make it better though, but it is an amiga, wheter you like it or not. Pegasos is not an amiga, but pegasos heh   ;-)
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Tomas on October 21, 2003, 03:37:30 AM
Quote
If Microsoft (Amiga Inc's "major partner", remember?) were to create an x86 system and call it "an Amiga", would that make it "an Amiga"?

Yes, if amigaINC supported it yeah offcourse it would... Why is an ibm a ibm? why is a gateway a gateway? It is just the name... the name has nothing to do with what kind of hardware it is.. even a mac is mostly a standard ppc clone this days..
Quote
Hyperion doesn't even have an Operating System and if they did, it will be HyperionOS, so I won't even fight that section of the argument.

Well, dont you think that Amiga os 3.5-3.9 is a AmigaOS? AmigaINC did not produce that OS themself either,  Haage & Partner did... The orginal AmigaOS was not done by commodore either, it was done by some british company...
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Damion on October 21, 2003, 03:54:35 AM
This whole 'name" argument is null anyhow...if Commodore
had stayed afloat, let's not forget they were going to
DUMP the "amiga" name, and release "Hombro"
(or whatever) and what after?? 'Diego'? or "Burrito 98million -
fifty?"

Chances are that the LAST thing we'd be seeing in 2004
from C= would be a 'new amiga'.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: yssing on October 21, 2003, 07:57:19 AM
Change the PCB abit, add a standard CPU socket for both the PPC and the 68k.
And then add a 300 MHz+ PPC
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: porneL on October 21, 2003, 10:10:51 AM
These days behind "Amiga" there is company that prefers working for microsoft. They are total failure, they weren't even able to produce t-shirts!
So the legal entity that bears amiga name is not worth having it.

What else is left? "Hyperion" and "Eyetech". How much more amiga is that than "Genesi" or "bPlan"?
It isn't! They all are amiga-related companies but none of them is that true, original amiga/C=.

What is amiga for you? For me its simple and nice OS, its community, its software that I like, its alternate way of looking at computing, big-endian machine, etc.
But these things apply equally well for both Peg+MOS and A1+OS4.

Look for machine that has amiga look'n'feel you like, not the machine that has amiga sticker on it that you got used to.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Kees on October 21, 2003, 10:17:11 AM
It seems that almost every news post or forum thread ends up in an Amiga vs Genesi thing ... Lets stay on topic !
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: ikir on October 21, 2003, 10:19:07 AM
A friend of mine has sent in the past a BlizzardPPC+Ram to DCE for repair. After a year, he received the blizzad card back without ppc cpu and without ram.

Any plan for this thing? DCE really sucks, instead nice point for Genesi.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: bloodline on October 21, 2003, 10:29:12 AM
Quote

Well, dont you think that Amiga os 3.5-3.9 is a AmigaOS? AmigaINC did not produce that OS themself either, Haage & Partner did... The orginal AmigaOS was not done by commodore either, it was done by some british company...


Don't talk about stuff you don't understand.

AmigaOS was developed by the Commodore-Amiga team, only some parts of CAOS were behind schedual, so MetaComCo (some British company as you put it) grafted parts of the TripOS Kernel into AmigaOS, this became what is now known as the dos.library.

research your facts before you post.

Sorry for this Off-Topic rant on a subject most of us already know.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: bloodline on October 21, 2003, 11:10:29 AM
Just a quick question....

Is it possible to switch the 68040 on the Blizzard Card off?
Mine gest VERY VERY VERY hot, and since MorphOS won't need the 68k (I assume we get the 68k JIT) it would be best to not have it running.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Palpatine on October 21, 2003, 11:21:52 AM
Quote
AmigaOS was developed by the Commodore-Amiga team, only some parts of CAOS were behind schedual, so MetaComCo (some British company as you put it) grafted parts of the TripOS Kernel into AmigaOS, this became what is now known as the dos.library.


Pop quiz: which company created Amiga Basic for Commodore? :-D
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: bloodline on October 21, 2003, 11:47:36 AM
Quote

Pop quiz: which company created Amiga Basic for Commodore?


hahaha, funny you should mention that. I found the A2000 AmigaBasic manual...

I was horrified to notice that it has no mechanism for waiting for events, one has to construct a busy loop to poll all the events your program handles!!!

No wonder it was so lame.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Framiga on October 21, 2003, 01:01:10 PM
Quote
Poster: Kees Date: 2003/10/21 11:17:11

It seems that almost every news post or forum thread ends up in an Amiga vs Genesi thing ... Lets stay on topic !

I agree, Kees.

How to destroy an important and Official Thread (at least for some of us) in an annoying, unuseful and . . . in the time of one morning :-(

Cheers
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: JurassicCamper on October 21, 2003, 02:28:18 PM
Usual suspects took it of topic  :-(

JoannaK: turned the steering wheel a bit
Quote
And nowdays.. those peope who did original designs have new plans and


Followed up superbly by neko grabbing the wheel and turning a into YA-Amiga-Genesi Thread

Quote
.. buy a Pegasos! For $299 you can get a 600MHz "Amiga"


 :smack:  :roll:
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: downix on October 21, 2003, 03:18:33 PM
@Bloodline

I do not believe so.  You still need to boot the system with the Kickstart first, so you need the 680x0 CPU for that.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: bloodline on October 21, 2003, 03:30:45 PM
Quote
I do not believe so. You still need to boot the system with the Kickstart first, so you need the 680x0 CPU for that.


Ahh but, and Ralph is the best person to ask I guess, can the 68040 be switched off once the PPC has taken control? I know the 68060 has power management modes, does the 040 have these?
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: magnetic on October 21, 2003, 04:20:08 PM
Hey Ron
  Good job with this whole DCE repair project. I think Amiga PPC board owners should be very thankful that Genesi took care of these matters for them. LIke all companies, resources are limited. This was a Community support effort by Genesi. Everyone here with the OT Amiga vs Genesi thing should give it a rest. Everyone knows what technology is more advanced, funded, and developed. The future is now!  Time will tell who is really carrying on the Amiga legacy.
  I have an Amiga 4000T PPC with every possible upgrade and OS 3.9. It seems slow and unstable compared to my Pegasos and MorphOS. I only turn on the 4000T for Video Toaster and old NTSC only software. The Pegasos computer is THE most exciting computer I've ever owned. And I have been using since the 8bit days!

 BTW THe answer to who made BASIC for Commodore is: NONE OTHER THAN MICROSOFT THEMSELVES - AND I HAVE A COPY OF IT WITH ORIGINAL MANUAL TO PROVE IT  :-D
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Palpatine on October 21, 2003, 05:13:22 PM
@magnetic:
Quote
BTW THe answer to who made BASIC for Commodore is: NONE OTHER THAN MICROSOFT THEMSELVES


You've won a guided tour at the DCE plant ;-)
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: Tomas on October 21, 2003, 05:30:24 PM
Quote
AmigaOS was developed by the Commodore-Amiga team, only some parts of CAOS were behind schedual, so MetaComCo (some British company as you put it) grafted parts of the TripOS Kernel into AmigaOS, this became what is now known as the dos.library.

well... who cares about who made it? It turned out to be a damn good OS, and that is not just because of its name.

I still ask again, is AmigaOS 3.5/3.9 not a AmigaOS?
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: bloodline on October 21, 2003, 09:05:21 PM
Quote

well... who cares about who made it? It turned out to be a damn good OS, and that is not just because of its name.

I still ask again, is AmigaOS 3.5/3.9 not a AmigaOS?


well, AROS, MorphOS and OS4 have all done away with the TripOS dos.library and implemented solutions that fit the AmigaOS design better.

AmigaOS 3.5/3.9 are IMHO just standadised AmigaOS3.1 hacks.
Title: Re: Report on DCE Repairs
Post by: JoannaK on October 21, 2003, 11:24:34 PM
Jurassic Camper: Please.. don't blame me if you don't like the way
things happen in real world.

I only mentioned that those old PPC-turbos are no longer produceable
and the same people are not likely to make new ones. Tough luck
is, that They still happen to be only ones with proven tallent for
such job.

If you are willing to donate considerable amuont of cash... then
perhaps... I'm sure there are others who could do similar card. But it
would require serious investment and good sales. (100 ain't good)