Amiga.org

Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => General Internet News => Topic started by: amigamad on October 15, 2003, 11:51:28 PM

Title: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: amigamad on October 15, 2003, 11:51:28 PM
NTL has cut off Linux users from its Freedom dial-up ISP service after imposing new dialler software that only runs on Windows and the Mac OS.

Read more at  The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/33404.html) ...

Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: Kees on October 15, 2003, 11:52:57 PM
Thats just ridiculous ....  :-o
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: The_Editor on October 15, 2003, 11:56:39 PM
*Bastards* ... Just as well I'm on BT !!
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: Ryu on October 16, 2003, 12:02:42 AM
aye, I was told that a few days ago when I had to phone up NTL to inquire about the dialup number change. I was furious with the guy on the other end of the phone. He was like a robot and didnt have a clue. All I wanted to know was what was the new dialup number... He tried to get me to go through setting up a temporary dialup account to download the new "super software". After following his instructions for a few minutes before completely loosing my rag and telling him where he could shove his help I went on my travels around the net and fould a wonderfull place known as www.nthellworld.com (http://www.nthellworld.com) I found that there was really no need to change the dialup number at all rendering the "super software" completely useless.

Well thats my rant over with now so I shall leave everyone to sleep.... :-)
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: bhoggett on October 16, 2003, 12:04:04 AM
Heh. Got an NTL advert leaflet dropped through my letterbox today, offering me broadband at half the speed I get now and nearly the same price.

Wan#ers!

Since I use Linux (and other non-Windows systems) I'd have to be nuts to even consider them after this, even if their broadband does work with Linux. One week's notice that your service is being terminated is hardly sufficient.

Boycott NTL.   :-P  :-P  :-P
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: GadgetMaster on October 16, 2003, 12:05:39 AM
Quote
*Bastards* ... Just as well I'm on BT !!


Hmm.... It seems like you've learnt to *swear* :-P  :-D

Unlike some:

Quote
Wan#ers!
;-)
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: KennyR on October 16, 2003, 12:21:51 AM
NTL suck anyway. No-one would use their service unless they had to or didn't know better. They offer a very poor service, they have a 1GB download cap, and there is a lot of downtime. Also the proxy service they offer is often as slow as hell, but you'd probably have to use it to get around their enforced proxy.

In case that's not clear enough:

AVOID NTL!!!

BT is almost as bad, but not quite. In fact, in the UK, internet is in the stone age.

I strongly recommend Telewest's Blueyonder service for anyone living in cable areas in the UK. They don't enforce proxies, there are no caps, there is no downtime, you always get your full bandwidth, you can connect with any system that supports DHCP, and they don't spam you or profit by sending your email off to all and sundry. In fact their service is almost perfect. In other words, the opposite of NTL.
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: AxE on October 16, 2003, 12:22:25 AM
iv had almost no trouble with NTL Kenny must just have been listening to RobinC too much, he certainly has never used it

i`d also recommend http://www.nthellworld.com/ (http://www.nthellworld.com/) :-)
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: mdwh2 on October 16, 2003, 12:30:15 AM
@KennyR

Do you have any data to back up your claim about downtime?

My NTL cable connection is fairly stable; it might be down for a couple of hours every few months (and things seem to be improving), and I don't ever get random disconnections. OTOH I've seen people on other ISPs (including blueyonder) suffering from downtime and disconnections fairly often.

NTL do have their problems - things like the 1GB cap (which they didn't even bother to tell their customers), and the customer service is useless. But the actual connection seems pretty good for me.
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: KennyR on October 16, 2003, 12:38:00 AM
Quote
AxE wrote:
iv had almost no trouble with NTL


You're one of the people who tell me all the bad things about NTL, like the proxies. :-P
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: KennyR on October 16, 2003, 12:41:01 AM
mdwh2, don't listen to me, listen to the users (http://www.ntlhell.co.uk/).
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: AxE on October 16, 2003, 12:46:41 AM
thats a XP and/or cnet.device issue nothing to do with NTL
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: Paul_Gadd on October 16, 2003, 12:48:43 AM
Quote
they have a 1GB download cap


Been downloading something around 3-4 gigs per day for months now and not had a warning yet, i did get a warning for uploading stuff to newsgroups but that was my own fault.

I was hoping to move BB provider but will wait for NTL to send a downloading warning first.
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: Mad-Matt on October 16, 2003, 12:52:01 AM
ntl generaly works fine although like any isp it has its downtime which usualy isnt that long.

as for the 1GB cap, its only enfoced if ya getting more then a gig a few days in a row, then ya lose the net for a day.   nothing much to worry about unless ya doing non stop downloading ;)Too many times and ya get a formal warning ;)
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: mdwh2 on October 16, 2003, 12:58:01 AM
@KennyR

Sure, there are NTL users who have problems. Is there evidence to suggest that these outnumber problems on other ISPs?
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: lempkee on October 16, 2003, 01:10:30 AM
as i said before "NTL ROXX" ,  PC ROXX , LINUX SUXX , AMIGA SUXX , MAC SUXX.

internet belongs only on pc , all providers should follow NTL on this , SMART MOVE!!!


[/sarcastic]
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: Ryu on October 16, 2003, 01:41:26 AM
http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40882&page=6&pp=15 (http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40882&page=6&pp=15)

oh yes and I forgot to mention, when I was arguing with the customer support guy I did ask about linux support and he told me "oh the linux community is only small, we wont loose out on many customers"

I was told I HAD to download this new software to obtain the new dialup number otherwise they couldnt provide me with a service.
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: mdwh2 on October 16, 2003, 02:04:35 AM
Does anyone know what this software does, and is it actually needed?

I remember a while ago they changed their dialup services, and if you chose one of the options, you have to use a different number. Except instead of telling us the new number, they provided a Windows-only program to edit your settings appropriately. I mean - why?? Aside from the problem of it being Windows-only, and being a ridiculously inefficient method of transmitting a few bytes of information, I'd be reluctant to run something that might mess up my system (either accidentally, or possibly more maliciously, eg, things like spyware). Thankfully I'd just switched to cable, so it didn't matter to me..
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: KennyR on October 16, 2003, 02:24:12 AM
As a guess (and *only* a guess), I'd maybe say they're switching to a new custom dialup protocol. Why they're doing this I have no idea, but improving services for their customers sounds like a line of bull, especially since their service is hardly famous for customer support, and other ISPs with better services seem to manage ok on PPP, PPPoE and DHCP.



My favourite is that MS is paying them to eliminate non-Windows users. But then, Apple users can still use it, so there goes that one. ;)
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: the_leander on October 16, 2003, 06:27:47 AM
Quote
As a guess (and *only* a guess), I'd maybe say they're switching to a new custom dialup protocol. Why they're doing this I have no idea, but improving services for their customers sounds like a line of bull, especially since their service is hardly famous for customer support, and other ISPs with better services seem to manage ok on PPP, PPPoE and DHCP.


Do you actually want to know what this "Super Software" actually is?? Do Ya??? Well all it is is a custom dialer with NTL stuck on the front of it, nothing more, nothing less, oh, and it occationally hangs, its the same software Tesco.net use (whose service coincidentally hangs off of NTL). So, copy down the number, discard buggy software, tap in your details and vioala! Instant internet connection. I do however feel that providing second rate software when there are perfectly capable built in systems (indeed, the built in Windows Dialer pops up when you get disconnected and can be set to automatically reconnect - the ntl dialer doesn't have that option) astounds me. Also, the software forces your browser to go to the ntl homepage (as the tesco.net one sends you to the tesco homepage) wether or not its actually set as your homepage when you first connect...
Freeserve lost my custom because they were forever messing me around with poor service and ever changing numbers... ending up with... you guessed it - a custom dialer...

Way to go F%cktards....
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: olegil on October 16, 2003, 07:41:43 AM
You forget that Microsoft supports MacOS with some of their products. No?
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: JurassicCamper on October 16, 2003, 08:57:42 AM
Quote
NTL suck anyway.


Only ever had a bit of trouble due to a faulty modem. I've had a cable modem for 3 years.

Quote
They offer a very poor service


Thats only since they moved the helpdesk to one call centre in swansea. Saying that they spend most of their time answering calls from people who realy should just put the PC back in the box and send it to PCWorld.

Quote
they have a 1GB download cap


But it is not enforced. ntl: home is split into six companies (regions). I can't speak for other regions but its not enforced in NE.

Quote
I strongly recommend Telewest's Blueyonder service for anyone living in cable areas in the UK.


Same stuff different name... beside ntl: and telewest are soon to merge. That will please you  :-P
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: Linchpin on October 16, 2003, 11:06:17 AM
Only ever had a problem with NTL once - faulty cable modem. Was replaced within 48 hours. Amazin :-)
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: bhoggett on October 16, 2003, 11:41:30 AM
@the_leander

It's the same everywhere. Tiscali do it with their broadband service. Of course, all this does is make the connection and log you in, plus forcing the Tiscali page to come up on every connection.

You are quite free to connect without the dialler too, but they refuse to offer "support" in any such cases. I guess the same goes for NTL, but they don't want to advertise it that way.
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: kd7ota on October 16, 2003, 01:51:15 PM
Meh,

Most linux users are really smart, so if they do that software to block them, then they will soup up their own software to log in. :-D
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: amigamad on October 16, 2003, 03:19:17 PM
Quote
1GB download cap,


Bt also have this :-?
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: amigamad on October 16, 2003, 03:23:11 PM
Quote
Been downloading something around 3-4 gigs per day for months now and not had a warning yet, i did get a warning for uploading stuff to newsgroups but that was my own fault.


My sisters boyfriends brother got a letter from ntl but then he did have the computer on non stop for days at a time downloading films.
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: Seehund on October 16, 2003, 03:31:42 PM
Insanity!

BTW, of course this does not only affect Linux users, like the headline suggests. The members at this site should know that there are other OSes than Windows, MacOS and Linux... ;)
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: KennyR on October 16, 2003, 04:04:11 PM
Quote
JurrassicCamper wrote:
But it is not enforced. ntl: home is split into six companies (regions). I can't speak for other regions but its not enforced in NE.


It's my understanding that if you overstep the 1GB cap too much, you get lettered. If you continue to do it, you get lettered some more. If you keep on doing it, you get cut off.

If that was the case with my ISP, I'd have lasted a month and not 12 months!

Quote
Same stuff different name... beside ntl: and telewest are soon to merge. That will please you :-P


ARGH
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: the_leander on October 16, 2003, 08:14:49 PM
Quote
It's the same everywhere.


I wouldn't mind so much the poor service that I seem to have universally recieved (IE, every time I've ever phoned up customer support I have had a really bad time of it - they surely can't be this thick in real life???) doesn't justify the costs, also with dialup the "two hour cuttoff" would be entirely unnecesary if they bothered to invest in enough equipment in the first place. I wouldn't mind paying £20 a month for dialup provided that the service that went with that was damned good. But no one seems to recognise this need for a good service anywhere in this country, everything is "on the cheep"...
Title: Re: NTL turns back on Linux users
Post by: theTAO on October 18, 2003, 05:09:16 AM
I'm in the US, so know only what I've been able to read.  If this "dialer" is a simple front-end to their access number database, I wonder if someone will break the database and post the numbers on a public web site (what NTL should have done in the first place)?

Alienating non-Windoze/Mac users won't kill their business, but I do hope it buys them some really bad publicity. ;-)

Todd