Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga.org site announcements => Topic started by: Kees on October 01, 2003, 07:10:15 PM
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The staff of Amiga.org are proud to release this great interview we did with Dave Haynie.
In this interview Dave takes the time to tell us all about the time he spent with Commodore and his work on the Amiga. He also shares his views on the current situation in the Amiga community -- and of course he talks about Merlancia.
Sit back and read all you ever wanted to know about this well known Amiga designer from the good ol' Commodore days.
Check out the Dave Haynie Interview (http://amiga.org/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=15) ...
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Wery interesting! And long! :-o :-)
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I don't get Haynie sometimes. He's got this idea in his head that if it's called Amiga, it must rule. It doesn't matter to him that OS4 and A1 isn't done by any of the original people and aren't anything like the original Amiga. It doesn't matter that Amiga Inc. are simply a millstone around further advancement of the Amiga community.
He'd rather play with OS4 than MorphOS, even though MOS will almost certainly have a more original feel to AmigaOS.
Sad.
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Well overall I can see where an ex-merlancia worker and original commodore guy is brand loyal, but I do think he's wrong to dismiss MorphOS/Pegasos as 'wannabee' amiga based on the fact that they dont have the name, wich is the only thing the AOA (Axis of Amiga) has in its favor.
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To me (and this is a sore subject)
Morphos and pegasos are way more Amiga then Amiga OS4 and AmigaOne.
These folks created the entire widget, unlike Amiga where one group owns the name, one has the hardware in monopoly, and the last has the OS who refuse to properly port is around.
If anything the Amiga crew sound like a bunch of Mini-Microsofts, tightly controlling their own little kingdoms via EULAs and custom boot chips that don't add functionality, but instead protect a monopoly.
Time will tell, but in the case of Amiga, God only hope that one of the three falling under won't drag the other two with it.
-Alex
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Phew.. finished!
That was a good interview (fix the dates though!), you have to respect that guy!
I agree with his Amiga/Pegasos views. I expect both products could be as good as each other (when they are finished), but the brand will help A1/OS4.
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Very nice reading.
A big thank you to amiga.org for makeing it and to Dave Haynie for takeing the time to answer all the questions.
This is THE Amiga person i would want to talk to IRL. He seems so nice and a cool guy :-)
But i guess there will be alot of MOS followers that will be dissepointed by some of his comment :-D
Tnx Again.
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Would you trust this man?
Dave Haynie (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/photos/570.JPG)
:-D
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@Nickman
>But i guess there will be alot of MOS followers that will be dissepointed by some of his comment
Naah.. as he said he haven't tried either of them.
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@KennyR
He'd rather play with OS4 than MorphOS, even though MOS will almost certainly have a more original feel to AmigaOS
Almost Certainly? :lol: :lol:
Man, sometimes I think the DOOMMASTER makes more sense to me? :-?
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I dont think it'll look/feel MORE like original AmigaOS because MorphOS's vision isnt to stay a 1980's OS.
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Interesting. I'm not too surprised by his Peggy/MOS comments. He has stated in the past he doesn't have much more than a curiosity towards OS4/A1, so why would he be interested in a variant? His curiosity in OS4 comes from a nostalgia stand point.
At least he shoots straight and from the hip.
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@ Nickman
Very nice reading.
A big thank you to amiga.org for makeing it and to Dave Haynie for takeing the time to answer all the questions.
Indeed! This is more than an Interview, this is a ... **document** (of history?).
Thanks to Dave for taking the time and putting down the effort, and thanks to amiga.org for making it happen! :-)
But i guess there will be alot of MOS followers that will be dissepointed by some of his comment
Not me! :-) It's very obvious that he has a lot of emotions attached to the "name", heck, "the name" is probably a big part of his self identity. There is where he made his fame, there is where he made his great accomplishments. I would probably feel exactly the same if I were in his shoes (even though the brand is pretty fücked up by now).
But that does not make his words the "truth" in any way. He has not tried OS4, neither MorphOS, yet he "knows" a lot! ;-) But the explanation to that can probably be found in what I wrote above. Emotions connected to the brand, not facts. I'm OK with that, and I hope he will have an opportunity to try MorphOS soon, I know he will feel right at home!
I also don't agree with his views on "open" platform (á la the x86) vs "proprietary". There is only one reason to why Apple still exists, and that is thanks to their "proprietary" strategy. They are selling one product, one entity, not an OS alone, not HW alone. If they should have stopped doing that and, say, moved over to the open x86 platform, I am pretty sure they would face the same faith as Be did.
It's interesting that he still follows the Amiga platform, at least briefly. I hope he will continue doing that! :-) And thank you again for this very nice interview! :-) :-)
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Interesting. Dave Haynie was involved in the PIOS project AFAIR, which was practically pissed off by Amiga users. Now he does the same. History repeats itself? Or he has learned something?
I agree with him though - the name is a power not to be underestimated.
EDIT
Maybe interesting read, even today:
DH -
The goal with the PIOS One is basically to make an A2000 for the late 90s, which is shipping close to the 10th anniversary of the A2000 (it even says "Haynie/Fisher" on the motherboard). No one today can rightly claim they're building "the next Amiga", that's only possible if you buy the Amiga assets, and even then, it's as much for the market to decide. But this system is designed to do what the A2000 did well. My goal on the 2000 was to build a platform system, something that started out basic, but was easy to add to or expand.
Change a few names here and there... And... Wow! What a pity.
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Nice interview. Congratulations Kees. It is very interesting.
even though MOS will almost certainly have a more original feel to AmigaOS.
???????????
My Amiga don't crash 3 times on 6 (Pianeta Amiga experience), and my Amiga can play Audio CD without crush the system.
Always spam here?
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@takemehomegrandma
Not me! It's very obvious that he has a lot of emotions attached to the "name", heck, "the name" is probably a big part of his self identity.
Actually, most of you are misreading Dave. He does show a certain preference for the Amiga branded solution as opposed to the Genesi one, but that's most likely because he has a certain distrust of some of the personalities involved. There's some sort of history there.
His point regarding the name itself is a valid one. Dave is basically saying that he sees little to recommend either PPC system at the moment, except the attachment to the Amiga history. Remove that sentimental factor, and neither concept has anything that makes it stand out in the cold light of day.
Since many in the MorphOS camp feel they are part of something revolutionary, Dave's comments won't necessarily be welcomed. For my part, I tend to agree with him.
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but that's most likely because he has a certain distrust of some of the personalities involved. There's some sort of history there.
and there isnt some sort of history with the AOA personalities? gimme a flippin break..
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@ ikir
You know, just becase there is a bait, it doesn't mean that you **have to bite it**!
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Since many in the MorphOS camp feel they are part of something revolutionary, Dave's comments won't necessarily be welcomed. For my part, I tend to agree with him.
Can we have a revolution in a small pool somewhere deep within a tiny forest? I doubt that. :-) If it's revolutionary, it's only revolutionary in it's current Amiga environment. Many years of exhaustive investment and work may make it a small revolution in the PPC market. But to have a real revolution today in the aging and dying IT sector, which will sooner or later suffocate in the the marketing hype instead of real innovation... Dunno. It probably requires some divine intervention.
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@ bhoggett
Actually, most of you are misreading Dave. He does show a certain preference for the Amiga branded solution as opposed to the Genesi one, but that's most likely because he has a certain distrust of some of the personalities involved. There's some sort of history there.
I didn't know that, but I am not surprized since **everyone** still standing in this community seems to have issues with one or more other community members (I include corporations in my definition of "community members"). That is kind of interesting! ;-)
Remove that sentimental factor, and neither concept has anything that makes it stand out in the cold light of day.
That depends on which day it is! :-P
What I meant was, it depends on what you are comparing to. Sure, neither MorphOS nor OS4 can compete with Windows on the desktop market as it is today (and will they evere be able to do that? Is it even worth spending resources in that direction?), but certainly there are a lot of areas where a lean operating system is more suitable than Windows! And it has no M$ tax to it, so it's cheap (I'm not talking about end users here, I'm talking about Genesi and companies alike). I believe you can make a device (of any kind, a STB, an "Eclipsis") and make it profitable and durable, but only because (and here it comes): it's **proprietary**! So I don't agree with you there ...
Since many in the MorphOS camp feel they are part of something revolutionary, Dave's comments won't necessarily be welcomed. For my part, I tend to agree with him.
We **are** part of something revolutionary! We are taking part of a new platform emerging! And that is exciting, I can tell you! :-)
In any way, this is more revolutionary than the "Umilator" you know ... :-P :-P ;-)
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Well Haynie is a technical consultant of the OS4
project according to Hyperion. So his opinions
should not surprise anyone.
(I wonder why he doesn't know much about A1/OS4
then though).
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Dave Haynie, the man, the legend. He rulez beyond this world.
He does take that interview not light, what a reading.
Bill Buck, if your reading, get that man a free Pegasos on the double. Don't make me send mine to him. Better yet, get him on your team.
Coder
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He says AmigaOne and Pegasos are nothing special.
I agree if you compare them to the A1000 which was a revolution.
On the other hand the piosone project was a really similar product to the Pegasos or Amigaone. Nothing really special, just a cool upgrade path for Amigans: an Amiga wanabee project (they did not have the Amiga name) like he says about the Pegasos.
He is accusing Genesi to split the community while the PiosOne would have done the exact same thing.
He is also harsh with the AROS effort.
Reading him I can see that he prefers beos which is as JLG said "Amiga 96" but still keep interest on OS4 because it has the Amiga name.
Neither Amigaone, nor Pegasos are revolutionary hardware, neither MorphOS nor OS4 are revolutionary OS. The only revolution may come to what you can do with such small footprint OS running on a such scalable CPU as the PPC.
Also I think Dave failed to understand Genesi plans wich are not to be the new Amiga, but to take the best of the Amiga to make new end user products that may be a start for a new revolution like the A1000 was.
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Bill Buck, if your reading, get that man a free Pegasos on the double. Don't make me send mine to him. Better yet, get him on your team.
The first sensible thought here. Pagestream will have a MorphOS version - a few weeks before at Grasshopper they couldn't care less for MorphOS. Experiencing it can change ppl's mind.
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@Warface
My thoughts! :-)
I mean before I had my Peg and MOS I really did not like it. Why? Because it was not Amiga like. You know the first thing I noticed? It gave me that "old" Amiga feeling.
Coder
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ikir wrote:
My Amiga don't crash 3 times on 6 (Pianeta Amiga experience), and my Amiga can play Audio CD without crush the system.
Always spam here?
Spam, yes - but not from me.
MorphOS on Pegasos is more stable than AmigaOS3.9 on an Amiga, period. I have both. And I can play audio CDs too, as well as play ogg, mp3, divx, use warp3d and warpup apps. All stabler and *much* faster than using an Amiga. OS4 is simply not finished and is years behind this. If it runs stable on A1 by Spring, I'll be surprised.
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Okay everybody, most people already know each others views on A1/Pegasos. Lets try and talk about the rest of the interview.
I particularly enjoyed reading about the stuff he has done since Commodore, its a pity those companies could not have been more successfull as some of the ideas were cool.
I also would love to get one of those A3000+ machines :-D
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Cracking interview, cheers Dave/Kees
@KennyR et al.
People are allowed to think for themselves you know. Just because someone doesn't share thier views with you doesn't mean they are wrong.
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And my apologies for looking like I'm trolling - it's just the whole Haynie thing brings Amiga user stubborness to view. It's irritating, just like watching the crew of a sinking ship ignore the speedboats on the side and all pile into a rickety, half-inflated dingy just because it has a nice name written on it.
I just won't allow lies to be told about better paths. Crash 3 times out of 6? Haha!
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@cdfr
Also I think Dave failed to understand Genesi plans wich are not to be the new Amiga, but to take the best of the Amiga to make new end user products that may be a start for a new revolution like the A1000 was.
Well, Dave's not the only one that doesn't undersand that. Perhaps that's because so far no one has managed to explain it in a coherent, clear, technically competent and unsentimental manner.
I've read the explanations and seen the enthusiasm, but looking at the cold hard facts leaves me unmoved about both Genesi and Amiga branded solutions. New? Maybe. Revolutionary, innovative or even merely better than the alternatives? Not unless you restrict your comparison to decade old solutions like AmigaOS 3.1.
Take away the jumping up and down and the clapping, and there's not much underneath.
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Really great interview and well done to all involved, and big thanks to Dave also of course, is he the man or what :-)
Nothing else to say really, boing! ;-)
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And my apologies for looking like I'm trolling - it's just the whole Haynie thing brings Amiga user stubborness to view. It's irritating, just like watching the crew of a sinking ship ignore the speedboats on the side and all pile into a rickety, half-inflated dingy just because it has a nice name written on it.[/and]
KennyR for once we see eye to eye on something.
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I had nothing, zero, zilch, nada to do with this article. I'm afraid if I was in on this one it would have been skewed a bit. (no, nothing to do with mos/os4.)
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Dave,
Thanks very much for giving Kees and the Amiga community your time and energy to produce such a great interview.
I understand your history with Commodore and the Amiga and I believe most of us here (including myself) hold you with a great deal of reverance. Being one of the key members of Commodore and probably the biggest "celebrity" that we have left, your opinion carries a lot of weight and you're generally seen as a "larger than life illuminary".
In relation to your history,
"Illuminary" == Original Commodore Engineer == One of the founding fathers of the Amiga == open-minded.
Without you and a few precious others, we wouldn't even be having this conversation and I for one have always been grateful of the contributions of the original team.
That being said, there are a couple of things about your interview responses that I would welcome the chance to discuss. In particular, you state that while you're watching, you don't really have time for the Amiga community any more. You then address Genesi and other alternatives to the classic platform as "wannabees". I personally find that the wording you chose is a little.. disappointing. Especially for someone I hold in such high regard as being open-minded.
Now, considering that you're -- self-admittedly -- a little out of touch with the community and what's going on, I find myself wondering if your perceptions might change if you actually had an opportunity to use a Pegasos with MorphOS?
To be honest -- and I believe most Pegasos owners here will agree -- a large majority of current Pegasos owners started out thinking exactly as you do now. It's only through many events and shows where people could actually touch and feel MorphOS and the Pegasos that they realized what a truly cool system it really is...
To that point, I would like to make you an open offer. I will, today if you so desire, crate up and send you my personal MorphOS 1.4 system (sans heavy monitor) and SuperBundle for your evaluation if you would be willing to clear your mind and give it a fair shake. Alternatively, *if* I can manage to scrape together the funds, I would *personally* BUY you a round trip ticket to our DC Technology event in a couple of weeks, or any of the Technology events that we have scheduled in the next few months (list is at http://pegasosppc.com/community.php). This is how much I believe in the Pegasos and MorphOS.
I'm *not* asking that you change your mind about the future of the systems or anything else. You make some good very points about having to fight for our own future, but I am inviting you to step up to the plate, open your mind, and at least experience -- first hand -- what you're so willing to denounce as a "wannabe". I honestly think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
What about it? Feel up to the challenge?
Wayne Hunt
Web Presence Manager
Genesi USA
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the whole Haynie thing brings Amiga user stubborness to view. It's irritating, just like watching the crew of a sinking ship ignore the speedboats on the side and all pile into a rickety, half-inflated dingy just because it has a nice name written on it.
I just won't allow lies to be told about better paths
Let me just say this, it is better in your view, not necessarily everyones. I've had a play with MOS and I wasn't overly impressed with it. MOS info, screenshots etc. just don't get me excited.
By contrast, I find both AROS and AOS 4's progress extremely interesting and (for want of a better word) exciting. I will spend ages looking at the latest AROS screenshots (more due soon I hope) and AOS shots.
Maybe I'm totally wrong in my choices, but AmigaOS 4 seems closer to what *I* want than MorphOS does currently. Surely I'm allowed to be "wrong" if I want to be? I'm not doing any harm am I? I'm not stopping anyone else from enjoying thier prefered system.
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@ all
Please feel free to talk about Dave's views ... but please don't turn this thread into a OS4 vs MOS thread ...
@ Wayne
Maybe you should 'talk bussines' with Dave in private :-)
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@Kees,
Not trying to be abrasive, and I don't want this to turn into a MorphOS versus Amiga thread either.
Despite my sincere and deep respect for Dave's history with the Amiga, I simply feel that some of Dave's expressed opinions -- or at least the terminology used in that interview -- are abrasive and reflect someone who isn't fully informed.
Hell, my opinion couldn't even be considered "informed" until I tried MorphOS. I have however at least tried AmigaOS 4.0 (at AmiWest). The tendency of most people is to form opinions by listening to other people. It's much easier than forming opinions of your own. :-)
I'm simply welcoming the opportunity to work with Dave to make sure that he remains as open-minded and informed as someone of his stature needs to be. Nothing more, nothing less.
There is certainly nothing wrong with making an offer.
Wayne
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Interesting stuff about Merlancia and the inner workings of a sham..
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@ Wayne
Your right ... I stand corrected
Kees
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@Wayne
That is funny, I was thinking the exact same thing. I'll split the cost of the ticket with you.
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@downix
No one made me that offer, I had to learn on my own :-o
The closest I got was Kronos' heckling:-P
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@uncharted
Each to his own, but if I came forward and started posting that OS4 was unstable and couldn't even play a CD, you'd get annoyed too, right?
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@Kees
Don't be silly, the questions given lead Haynie into the MOS/OS4 topic. It is natural that people would want to discuss it. Just be thankful that there isn't any roasts ;-) Speaking of roast, it's dinnertime!
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@ Targhan
Yes .. but that doesn't mean that a thread should end in a flamefest ... wich it hasn't this far ... but you know how things go.
Kees
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@uncharted
Each to his own, but if I came forward and started posting that OS4 was unstable and couldn't even play a CD, you'd get annoyed too, right?
You do regularly.
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@Kees
Oh yeah :-P Sometimes it takes a bit of work to "keep it civil."
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He'd rather play with OS4 than MorphOS, even though MOS will almost certainly have a more original feel to AmigaOS
Um? how is it possible that MorphOS will feel more like AmigaOS than AmigaOS? :O
And btw, what does MorphOS have that os4 wont have? :-?
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Amazing interview by the way! Makes a bit sad to read though, how certain people slowly killed off the whole company.
But thanks for this interview :-)
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@Tomas,
As much as I would like to jump into this and start listing the current advantages of MorphOS over AmigaOS 4, Kees is absolutely correct. This is not the time, or thread for it. This thread is about Dave's interview, not the average "which stick is bigger" conversation which pretty much consumes this community.
If you'd like to talk to me about the advantages of MorphOS and the Pegasos, just leave me an e-mail message and I'll be glad to discuss it off forum.
Wayne
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@Wayne
Ok
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@Paul_Gadd,
Off-topic. Please send me a private message or e-mail.
Wayne
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@Tomas
See PM.
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wayne: me too
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@lempkee
"Me too" ???
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i respect davie for the interview , very well .
and i agree totally to what he have said , we wont be able to go mainstream as it is today , look at the comments in here..., people stating they can run DIVx*ogg etc on their pegasos, wow i am amazed! , not really but sure its a + .
remeber software determines if a plattform is alive or not, especially at times like this if u need new people on board! .
anyway send davie an pegasos , i am pretty sure he wil try it , then post a new interview just to get your answer if it rule or not.
and for os4 and a1 , can't do that as dave aint a beta tester so there ya have an big + .
lets wait and see and i am pretty sure this will happen, if not i will be dissapointed .
cheers
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@Tomas,
As much as I would like to jump into this and start listing the current advantages of MorphOS over AmigaOS 4, Kees is absolutely correct. This is not the time, or thread for it. This thread is about Dave's interview, not the average "which stick is bigger" conversation which pretty much consumes this community.
If you'd like to talk to me about the advantages of MorphOS and the Pegasos, just leave me an e-mail message and I'll be glad to discuss it off forum.
wayne: that :)
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kennyR: u wrote...
Spam, yes - but not from me.
MorphOS on Pegasos is more stable than AmigaOS3.9 on an Amiga, period. I have both. And I can play audio CDs too, as well as play ogg, mp3, divx, use warp3d and warpup apps. All stabler and *much* faster than using an Amiga. OS4 is simply not finished and is years behind this. If it runs stable on A1 by Spring, I'll be surprised.
what are you saying here, this is not good for the peg community, there is users who crash alot still, and i havent actually seen it running like you say here, but then again maybe your amiga with os3.9 never was actually stable, seen alot of them.
but sure there is no ways of telling , since you probably use your system for other things than the other users , and yet again people still claim windows is rocksolid, its a discussion for the very long run and it will never stop .
meet up at a show in the future with your wonderfull machine and we can do a race , pegasos vs pegasos if you like that and we can time it.
beyond that do we really need to hear about how buggy your a1200 is? , you have told us this so many times , anyway i hope that after xmas 2003 that everyone's pegasos will be as stable as yours.
for os4 , well time will tell about that ...now wont it?.
cheers
pps: not any insults here , but i feel you tried to say something which aint right, not acording to other users anyway (nor me)
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Ok, maybe AROS, now that the seem to actually, finally, have decided that it’s ok to really pursue AROS; I kind of got excited by the early prospects of it, then disillusions and, finally, disinterested by the lack of committment and fear-of-reprisals that seemed to be attached.
I completely accept that Dave can have a bad opinion of AROS, but I certainly cannot accept he bases that opinion of faulty assumptions: there's no lack of committment (unless he thinks that to be really committed one should work full time on it), and there's no fear-of-reprisals at all, although I can understand that is what may have appeared by reading some of Aaron's statements some years ago - but that was it all, and they were due to some actions by Amiga Inc. All in all, we're doing pretty well, managing to slowly make AROS grow while running our full-of-other-things private lives.
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>>MorphOS on Pegasos is more stable than AmigaOS3.9 on an Amiga, period.
Depending on the sets of application pool. Did you factored in compatibility issues as a factor for stability (cited as an example)? I recall there was a list (both unofficial and official) of compatible applications for MorphOS.
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Kees is absolutely correct. This is not the time, or thread for it. This thread is about Dave's interview, not the average "which stick is bigger" conversation which pretty much consumes this community.
Yeah, totally agree, did not read that before after i had posted.
if you'd like to talk to me about the advantages of MorphOS and the Pegasos, just leave me an e-mail message and I'll be glad to discuss it off forum.
It was not really mean as discussion, more like a quesiton, since i have personally no experience at all with MorphOS
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All in all I liked it.. there were some comments that did show some
prejudice but IMHO it's only human. But eanyhow most important and
relevant are his talks of those times (and incidents) he's been there
to see it.
What he's lkely be right is that non of these systems is likely to
become mainstream on dekstops. I have heard rumours of some people
'dreaming' on selling 5 Million Neo-Amigas just like that.
EDIT. For future clarification.. Neo-Amiga = Aone and it's variants ..
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My personal opinion is...
I also studied EE (electronic Engineering) and this man in my eyes is a legened.
You have to expect some predjudice for a bloke woh phisicaly worked on H/W and helped shaped software for a extremely important PC of our era.
I tend to agree with him, Morph OS was targeted at the ami community, otherwise we wouldn't have it, weather it's called Morph or OS4 or BeOs is irrelevent. I don't like the way Morph has further split the community up when it's already way to small but hey, it has, it's here is it any good, who knows. I'm going to look at BeOs as it will run on a platform I don't need to shell out for so who knows. The thing is, OS4 is going to keep AMIGAs being made and built, it carries the legacy behind it and tries to maintain it. The H/W orrigionaly designed was the OS's base, they were designed in tandum to comliment each other and lead to radicle new designs being implemented, even Dave sais it's origional design was so ahead of it's time and helped him florish as an engineer.
I can't claim to be an engineer but I Still marvel at what was achieved at the time, even now things like the antiquated Zorro design still amazes me. It was never dubbed 'Plug and Pray' as the OS worked with it in a way that PC users are only starting to come to expect. This was the computer we now debate.
The platform may change but the AMIGA, it's the origional OS of choice, the clones, are that, clones of an idea. The H/W like Dave sais when designs are good and are standards, USE THEM. PCI was excelent!, VESA sucked I was horrified because it was in debate with PCI to be the standard. I'm SSSOOOO glad PCI won, because it seemed to be another VHS/BETA scenero but for the PC industry, coming forwards.
I for one would like to see how much better than the clones and other OSs on offer the new AMIGA OS can be. It's long overdue and people Like Dave H and Carl S are and can be only of benifit to the community, they have all had a major part in keeping this small but continued community together. Remember, they helped make the PC and OS. There would be no community without them and they are still willing to be a part of it, like you just read.
They are a wealth of information and ability. This community can only benifit from them in my eyes, ther are the godfather and not grandfather, they still make contributions to the IT world and they are not behind in ideas, they have a lot of knowledge and think in radicle ways thanks to the amazing work done in Mexico.
I still regard Dave H with awe, he and his are amazing in what they achieved in computing.
Dave, your a legened, and one of the reasons I took an interest to study !
Great Article, thanks!
Now back to the books. End of personal opinion.....
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Thanks, Dave!
Re: The 'historical document' aspect -- that one instance of '2001' is... 1991?
---
When it comes to 'reading' this, I won't pretend to speak for him, but the mention of KOSH (http://kosh.convergence.org/) should be a flag. That was/is Fleecy's project (in the sense that it was his focus, I'm not sure where he did or does live with it organizationally), and whether or not it could ever fly - so far it obviously hasn't - you can't say it wasn't an attempt to be forward-looking. AInc. has kept its sights on the same goalposts (portability, modularity, network-abstraction), even if they keep changing the playing surface and their gear. [The original 4.0 plan with the Escena AmigaOne was actually the odd duck out, the 'Fine, we give up, let's do what the community thinks it wants' project... Given the dramatic success there, the hobby-hardware approach ended up on the floor anyway, and the much-delayed 4 is of a form that can at least serve a base for an 'AG2' if there's anyone left to write it. Back to square one, but at least it's a nice, self-righteous square to be at.]
So that's AInc.'s recurring theme. Genesi's recurring theme, if there is one, seems to revolve around becoming a a rocking convergence/entertainment company; MorphOS looked like it was going to be "the stable one" up against 4, but as soon as the pressure turned up and the spotlights came on, running everything, or at least the UI (which everything has to touch, especially the sort of conveniences and toys likely to come as untrusted code*) in one memory context became a feature?
Enh, I'm being a jerk. ;-) But the thing is, AInc. set itself up to at least try to look like an 'OS' (okay, 'runtime,' for a brief period) company. Barring apparent or actual acts of stupidity, their own plan promotes getting it right and keeping things open (the most dramatic missteps have happened when that's failed, as with the NDA'd-forever SDK updates, or the PR stumble with the 'certification ROMs' and OS bundling**); Genesi are going the 'platform' road, tackling a different and orthogonal set of problems; a few months ago it was improving and lightening the STB space, this week it's saving the music industry, all well and good while nearly unrelated to the design of the underlying OS. The code just has to be good enough to run the 'platform.'***
Problem is, if they end up against the wall, they'll be in the same position Apple was in with the CHRP market.**** The services, the XPerience are become the product, the OS is just that thing that makes it happen, and maybe maintains some hacker appeal for people who want to write snazzy demos fast without putting up with current tradeoffs for stability. [C vs. LISP, anyone?]
---
*All I can say is one compound word, starts with the letters "B-o-n-z..."
**Yes, it sucks that it's cheaper for a strong company to be 'ethical' and able to ignore the impact of piracy. The corrolary problem is that, right now, the 'name' needs to attract as many people as it can who'll at least *think* of happily exchanging money for goods and services at some point. If the main intention was to piss off Thendic/Genesi, sheesh, just say it -- "We work on royalties here, call us when you have a platform where a port will be worth more than our development time?"
***I'm trying to use 'platform' to connote the sense of interally developed/organized projects here, in the sense of iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, iChat, iBoughtaMacforthisstuff sowhatiftheFindercorruptseverytenthtimeitgoesintosleepmode? More seriously, I don't see Genesi getting quite as tight as Apple here, but that 'added value' is the fun part to the management. Which itself is cool and all, a computer is only as useful as the stuff you can do with it, but then you've got guys like me who'd rather not waste any more brain cells on technology unless there's some vague hope of making it set-and-forget. Both products are evolving, I'm sure the architectural issues will all get touched and shuffled around at some point...
An Apple-type "platform" arrangement does have more 'freedom;' as-demonstrated, you can kick your customers from one OS to another and a majority won't complain as long as the artwork is shinier and iTunes still works.
****But hey, it's not hard to be smarter than Apple, and Genesi have the opportunity here. Just bundle all the cool 'free' services to the hardware rather than the OS, and let cloners run with it; charge (affordable but profitable) entrance fees for everyone without the hardware-buy season pass, and you're bringing in the dough either way. [Edit to acknowledge that this is, in fact, what Apple's doing right now, except they've figured out how to stick it to their own customers, too. The Music Store is conceptually orthogonal (ain't that a fun word?) to anything that has to do with OSes, though in practice, they're making it easy on themselves by keeping it limited to platforms with strong DRM.]
Plus, that makes the peons who'll stick with *NIX happy, and convinces them to invest in your platform as open, friendly hardware. ;-)
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@ uncharted
> You do regularly.
And you respond to it regularly, wasn't that the point?
:-D
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@red
>The closest I got was Kronos' heckling
My pleasure :-D
Don't know, but somehow Dave sounds like on of those former 1-hit-wunders
playing his only song in barn-discos to small crowds overand over again.
Everything he touched after C= turned out to be a complete failure
(hope his current company doesn't follow that trend),sohe has only his
old fame to clingon :-(
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Hey, you can't force feed someone your point of view. I just can't believe you posted that. Why? cause it's SO cheerleaderish.
Oh, no he called the other Amigaish solutions "wanabees". He seems to have the same lack of knowledge of Morphos as Amiga OS 4.0. The only reason, it looks like, he wants to try Amiga OS 4.0 on the Amiga One is to see how the Amiga Legacy he was part of is continuing on. He sees that as a straight like of IP ownership sucesssion. His opinion.
He see anything currently Amigaish (ie. the new stuff) as nothing special and only of interest to those in the community. Not to mention at a great disadvantage to be competative in the big wide world of the computer market.
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yes, it Dave finds the time and has the interest he will look into it. It seem quite obvious that he's abit out of touch with current Amiga happenings.
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Poster: falemagn Date: 2003/10/1 19:20:12
I completely accept that Dave can have a bad opinion of AROS, but I certainly cannot accept he bases that opinion of faulty assumptions: there's no lack of committment (unless he thinks that to be really committed one should work full time on it), and there's no fear-of-reprisals at all, although I can understand that is what may have appeared by reading some of Aaron's statements some years ago - but that was it all, and they were due to some actions by Amiga Inc. All in all, we're doing pretty well, managing to slowly make AROS grow while running our full-of-other-things private lives.
As I read Dave's post, it seems, atleast to me, he was referring to the time when AROS went underground (in other words, laying low and out of Amiga Inc's sight) when he was dissapointed in AROS after getting excited. Today, by what he wrote:
Ok, maybe AROS, now that the seem to actually, finally, have decided that it’s ok to really pursue AROS; I
reads to me that he sees AROS is in a positive light now as he sees it is indeed moving along. Unless he is not reading threads on TeamONE ML about AROS in the subject line, he is being kept up todate on the major happenings of AROS.
Dammy
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Overall, a good interview. I too have to agree with his assessment on the OS4/MorphOS issue.
- Mike
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- My Pegasos/MorphOS can play any Audio CD without problem
- I don't have that much crash (expect if I code a big bug :-) )
There is a problem with Radeon. when moving window (opaque, or big
text scrooling) it distroy the sound when playing. but only with
Radeon, works great with others gfx card (Voodoo, SIS ...)
Well, can you play big Divx with your Amiga :-P
I invite you to test more MorphOS, you will certainly notice it's very
fast ond really like the AmigaOS.
MorphOS is a stable OS, but it's AmigaOS API compatible this implied
no real Memory protection then MorphOS is not robust ( a nasty
software can nuke the system).
But this is the same on AmigaOS 68k, and should be to on OS 4.
Bye
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As I read Dave's post, it seems, atleast to me, he was referring to the time when AROS went underground (in other words, laying low and out of Amiga Inc's sight) when he was dissapointed in AROS after getting excited.
Actually, I myself have realized that sometime after I made my post, but was too much in doubt and too much sleepy to push the edit button :-)
Well, yeah, re-reading that quote it seems like he actually said we're doing ok now... Sorry.
However, you must agree it's not very clear :-)
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Now that's one good interview. His views are of course just the views of one guy. He sees things pretty much from a engineering angle.
What I take from the interview is the whole Merlancia "scam" as Dave sees it. Also interesting is his take on the classic Amiga line. I don't think there's anybody who doesn't see that the A4000 is not as special as we, or Dave would have wanted it to be, still it's the Amiga I did most work with and it could do all sorts of things the A2000 and A3000 couldn't do. Today all that is irrelevant. All classical Amiga's are technology from the past. Interesting to see that C= would probably have ended up with PCI and other off the shelf components in the longer run. The future for the Amiga is whatever is coming. Neither Aone, nor Peg are revolutionary hardware, neither MorphOS nor OS4 are revolutionary OS. I think, for now, both can be sold only to Amiga fans. I do see a future though. Mini and nano ITX seems to be an interesting evolution, a powerPC based mini/nanoITX plus a small footprint OS makes me see possibilities. Even if their native OS doesn't make it, both the Peg and Aone will allow for other OS's to run on their hardware.
My position so far is unchanged, wait and see. And if all goes wrong we always have Aros...
;-)
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What he's lkely be right is that non of these systems is likely to
become mainstream on dekstops. I have heard rumours of some people
'dreaming' on selling 5 Million Neo-Amigas just like that.
Actually JoannaK you shouldn't believe everything you hear on amIRC. Last night on #amigaworld, I was having an argument with tarbos over the Dave Haynie interview.
tarbos claimed that Gerald Carda is a better engineer than Dave Haynie, since he claimed Dave Haynie is a failure. I countered that given the no's of Amiga's that were sold when Dave worked for commodore, that couldn't be the case.
I also went on to say that I *believed* Dave Haynie was also involved in the AGA chipset, and that I *believed* something like 5 million A1200's were sold worldwide. (I think that's about right)
At no time did I say Gerald Carda was a bad engineer, I do not mean to imply he is a failure etc. I'm sure he is a fine engineer
In my honest opinion, if 5,000 A1's are sold, it will be a miricle. That's 5 thousend not 5 Million.
Just setting the record straight.
Mikey C
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@T_Bone
And you respond to it regularly, wasn't that the point?
Not really, I don't post here often enough to.
I think I've asked Kenny why he feels the need to troll a couple of times, only because he never used to be like that. Never got a response though. I think my last comment was something about Kronos and Kenny getting thier knickers in a twist about the A1 booting OS 4 or something along those lines.
I'm amazed how personally some people have taken it, and how one guy's opinions (and attemps at his reputation) were ripped to shreads, just because they differ.
It will probably die down now, as it seems Wayne et al have managed to turn this into a fine marketing opportunity.
I'm so bored with this. I'm only really here to talk ideas, not politics.
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In my honest opinion, if 5,000 A1's are sold, it will be a miricle. That's 5 thousend not 5 Million.
Seeing the increasing rate with which the old hardware dies on local mailing lists, those who decide to remain have 4 choices: buy a classic again, or an AmigaONE or a Pegasos . Chances are that those purchasing AmigaONEs and Pegasoses may reach more and more as time passes by. This is however, just an opinion.
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I certainly believe Dave's comments about being "out of touch" are backed up by his comments relating to AROS.
I agree with his comments relating to AROS, had they been made when I first joined AROS. But now, I've not seen more commitment from a bunch of people than the AROS project. And the project is more excting now than any other in the Amiga community (For me only). I agree that I might be the only person in the world who finds runninng an AmigaOS clone on a 2.6Ghz CPU exciting... :-D
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It always puts tears in my eyes reading of what machines were in developement :boohoo:
I really hate Commodore for some decisions they took :madashell:
Well its all history anyway, and as Dave Haynie said, the chances for a revolutionary design as A1000 was, is near 0 these days...
-
Either I missed something, or Dave moved some event 10 years in the future:
---------------CUT-----------------------------------
That's about the time (2000-2001 I guess) Ed Hepler left the AAA group and went
on to start the Hombre project.
------------------------------------------------------
maybe it's 1990-1991 ?
-----------------CUT-----------------------------------
sometime after the A3000, around the Spring of 2001. That's when Ali grabbed
the ropes, and one-by-one, group by group, starting making the company his.
-----------------------------------------------------------
maybe Spring 1991 ?
-----------------CUT---------------------------------
than revive the "A1000+", which was Joe Augenbraun's project to build an $800
AA-based, 25MHz entry-level machine for April 2002 release, he gets Greg Berlin
to build a scaled-down A3000. This is dubbed the A1000jr -----------------------------------------------------------------
April 1992 ?
Anyway, this was a really great interview, as it always happens when Dave speaks!
But also the questions were good!
:-)
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uncharted:i couldnt agree more , but still people will always try and force something on you, and you might love it in the end , thats the good thing, though all the nagging in the wrong places does piss u more off that it actually should have and that is a bad thing.
i am still very open minded with pegasos vs amigaone , but i stayed with amiga through tick and thin and i wont bend just for pegasos just like that.
Aros is nothing for me, its like air .. i dont want a x86 plattform and i couldnt care less.
i will probably get an peg2 + an amigaone lite and try em out for a longer period and then say which is best FOR MY USAGE , i was pretty uncomfortable with pegasos in the start and i am still so but that is beause of the way it was introduced and still beeing marketed, but since last version of mos, i can't really say its ugly and un useable but it still has issues which i wont live with for now.
hence, i stick to my only computer which is my amiga 1200 , and i do have an XE (a1) but i dont use it much , my gf uses it for inet and browsing/mail .
cheers
pps:competetion is always good and this we will be able to see not too far from now, prices , campaigns etc and hopefully a bigger market + actual software will be produced.
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It will probably die down now, as it seems Wayne et al have managed to turn this into a fine marketing opportunity.
That comment is aweful sharp, was it really necessary? Just like all other members, Wayne is allowed to speak his mind.
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Aros is nothing for me, its like air .. i dont want a x86 plattform and i couldnt care less.
I certainly hope air is not nothing for you. I don't wantyou to die.
But Remember AROS != x86. AROS is just an OS that can run on the x86, as it can the PPC and the 68k...
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That was a great interview! Thanks Dave, Kees/amiga.org and those who submitted questions!
Yes, it does seem like Dave is - self-admittedly - a bit out of the loop regarding current Amiga events. Since when is that a crime? :)
As for the "wannabe" comment, I think the ensuing discussion to a great deal arises from people's personal preferences, and that stinking old factionism. Personally, I don't see "wannabe" to necessarily have negative connotations. MorphOS is a wannabe AmigaOS. But hey, I thought that was a good thing, I guess that's primarily why most of us are interested in it (in whatever way, positive or negative) - otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it so regularly and fervently.
He also said that the excitement (in our little "market") over the Terons is AmigaOS4, "pretty much start and finish." Dave also sees the obvious that there won't be any new Amigas (unless someone's got "$250 million" laying around... ;)). A pragmatic view of hardware being a commodity, already out there and continuously being sold and developed by those who already have that capability, it's ready to be used. So if you're trying to sell an OS and don't have $250M or any weight to throw around in hardware development, then make it run on the hardware that people want.
In that perspective he didn't really diss the Pegasos hardware per se, it's just that AmigaOS won't be allowed to be sold for it. AmigaOS has been turned into a sales-pitch for Terons; a compulsory for-old-times'-sake charity fundraising action for Eyetech. He wants AmigaOS, so he has to buy an "AmigaOne".
I don't quite get the "Pegasos splits the market" bit. More hardware options is a prerequisite for market growth. "I’m pretty much not going to spend $1000 or so just to taste out this new OS", as Dave said, and to see market growth that statement can be applied to any OS, including AmigaOS. The split, for AmigaOS's part as that seems to be a common interest of mine and Dave's, comes from the artificial divide created by AInc's licensing idiocy imposed on 3rd party hardware. In contrast, both parts of the MorphOS/Pegasos package are controlled, developed and sold by one company. I could see MorphOS sold for other hardware, like Macs or Terons, if Genesi can keep the Peg competitive in the geek PPC niche - they'd still be selling Pegs at the same time as they'd get MorphOS users (and thus possible future Peg customers) elsewhere.
I'd like to run the "official" AmigaOS. I know and like the current AmigaOS, and an updated version will no doubt rock on more modern hardware. I'm however not as "faithful" as Dave seems to be, I'm not prepared to pretend there's a reason to buy my hardware more expensively on a restricted "Amiga market" just to continue to run AmigaOS.
Given that AmigaOS4 and MorphOS/ABox seem to offer current AmigaOS users roughly the same things (I'm sure someone will now post a detailed list of reasons why one r0x0rz and the other sux0rz...), the main marketing point of AmigaOS4 indeed seems to be the Name. It's "official". Takemehomegrandma wrote a good summary IMO in the forums on just how the Name has been devaluated, especially over the last 3-4 years. To level the playing field, AInc needs to realize that their product, what they should be selling (maybe that's a strange concept...), is AmigaOS, not other people's hardware or trademark licenses for such. AmigaOS4 is but one alternative among others for current and future users interested in AmigaOS. Make people choose your alternative by making it more attractive, not with comradery and lenience to irrelevant former partners, futile hopes for short term license income, restrictions and lockouts. A couple of thousand stalwart fanatics is nothing to fight over.
Stop me, I'm rambling! ;)
Anyway, nice interview, if nothing else from a historical anecdote perspective.
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That is probably the best interview I've read on this site.
As for his views on OS4/MOS/AROS - it's the guy's *opinion*, which he openly admits is a little out of touch. even still, I don't think he was too wide of the mark.
@Kenny:
I can't comment on OS3.9 but I can say that my Pegasos crashes more often than my OS3.5 A1200.
"*Application is meditating*" is something I see more and more. Graphics corruption happens a lot too, although I guess that could be down to my Radeon 8500. My A1 had problems with it too.
I still love the system though but it ain't perfect by a long shot.
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@Mikey_C
5000000 A1200s ??? :lol: :lol:
220000 sold under C= and 190000 produced at ESCOM (lots of them never sold).
The A500 was sold about 4500000 times, but most of them only after the prices
dropped to console-level.
And what has sold them were the chips and the C=-badge,not some obscure
college-rock-references inprinted on the PCBs :-P
Or do you think BE would have sold more units if they had been designed by Dave ?
Both Gerald and Dave did/do use pre-existant chips (Gerald, 3rd-party ones,
Dave had them inhouse). Both build great HW with them,but also none of
that HW was ever 100% perfect (or why do you think we get all the "my xxxx
doesn't work with my revision_y Azz00 ?).
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(Not aimed at Seehund as it applies to most of this thread)
I can't help but wonder whether it's Dave Haynie who is out of touch with the Amiga scene, or the Amiga scene which is out of touch with the Real World (tm).
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>I also went on to say that I *believed* Dave Haynie
>was also involved in the AGA chipset, and that I
>*believed* something like 5 million A1200's were
>sold worldwide. (I think that's about right)
Ok here are some more realistic numbers. These
were posted by Dr. Peter Kittel and only cover the
total sales of Commodore Germany until
31/12/1993:
Amiga CD32 25.000
Amiga CDTV 25.800
Amiga 500 1.081.000
Amiga 500+ 79.500
Amiga 600 193.000
Amiga 1000 27.500
Amiga 1200 95.500
Amiga 2000 124.500
Amiga 3000 8.300
Amiga 4000/030 7.500
Amiga 4000/040 3.800
The sold machines in the first half of 1994 by
Commodore Germany have been:
Amiga CD32 25.000
Amiga CDTV 1.800
Amiga 500 21.000
Amiga 500+ 9.500
Amiga 600 43.000
Amiga 1200 52.000
Amiga 2000 2.500
Amiga 3000 700
Amiga 4000/030 4.000
Amiga 4000/040 800
Interesting to see that even in 1994(!) the numbers
of sold A500/600 have been higher than all sold
other machines (A1200-4000) together.
I guess in other countries the A1200 must have been
sold very well then (if 5 million was true) ;-)
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Incredible.... we're given a lengthy in depth interview, covering a multitude of topics and this thread is almost entirely preocupied with the fact that Dave Haynie isn't particuarly interested in Morphos.
Very sad indeed.
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I concede to your superior facts. If they are accurate.
However the point I was still making to tarbos is that The Stuff Dave Haynie was involved in, sold more units than what Gerald Carda has been involved with so far.
tarbos was trying to make out that Dave Haynie is a failure. I was defending Dave. I appreciate that not all MOS users are as short sighted as he is.
That is all I will say on the matter, I was being misquoted by JoannaK into saying that AmigaOne`s will sell around 5 million. This is not the case and I have never maintained that it is.
Mikey C
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@Red
That comment is aweful sharp, was it really necessary? Just like all other members, Wayne is allowed to speak his mind.
I'd say I was just being blunt. There was need need to throw down the gauntlet to Dave online. This situation has been turned around from a potential disaster to a unique opportunity to pursuade the community to buy Genesi.
Perhaps if Amiga Inc. had that kind of PR cunning, they wouldn't be where they are now.
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>sold more units than what Gerald Carda has been
>involved with so far.
AFAIK (and in this I might be wrong) Gerald Carda
has been involved in hw products with sales
numbers higher than 100 000 and that isn't that bad
after all.
-
interesting to see that even in 1994(!) the numbers
of sold A500/600 have been higher than all sold
other machines (A1200-4000) together.
I have no idea on how many A1200's sold total but i do know it done OK in late 93/94 timeframe.
Your comment doesnt make sence though, surely you meant 1993? when the A500/A600 outsold them all, of course the a600 would have high sales then as it was new, the a500 alone did sell high when compared alone to the A1200 for '94. '93 figures is not surprising, given that the sales figures was taken late '93, the A1200 wouldnt have had a full sales year, you can see the difference the following year made for the A1200, it was easily the biggest seller, but granted sales could have been better accross the board
Past history though, we aint gonna even skim those sales figures with the A1 or Pegy combined for 2004.
Who knows what lays further down the line, i do hope they can at least approach that on future conceptions/updates
-
>Your comment doesnt make sence though, surely
>you meant 1993?
No the timeframe for this comment was (as said)
first half of 1994 and not 1993.
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@Calen
The A1200 was introduced in Frankfurt (WOC) october or november 92 (and yes
you could pick one up and take it home from there). I got mine dezember 24
(no,not a present ;-) ),so yes the A1200 had a full sales-year by the end of 93.
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Mikey_C : funny. I was not even talkin about you with that 5 million
comment .. But apparently numbers accidently looked too similar and
caused reaction.
That 5Mil was (by some rumours) a given sales estimation to these new
AmigaOnes.. (Story don't mention models nor timeframe.. )
Beliving everything I hear? Hell no.. :-D
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@Kronos
Yeah my mistake, had my dates a touch mixed up.
Was indeed released UK anyway around Nov '92, i picked mine up early '93 from a well known high street electronic store, Dixons, finally got a 100% working one after 3 attempts :-) ah those where the days...
-
everybody sane should know this , amiga1200 started to sell 11th november 1992 , but for other countries like norway it was 11th january and then delayed to mid feb 1993 (too big demand?) , the a1200 didnt get the boost it should have in the opening as at that time amiga had allready released 3 clones based on ECS chipset and to a normal user, not much differences and tbh there wasnt actually any software with the a1200 in its first months to actually drag customers.
but if its beating the sales in europe (all not only germany).
by selling i mean , products came and made the a1200 superior , that was like in mid 1994->1995 . after that it was downhill iirc.
cd32 sales raised after commodore died, pretty weird but it also dissapeared to fast , ie people who wanted it couldnt buy it unless they looked for stores far away.
anyway i belived uk/sweden and denmark was the top countries for a1200, wasnt it? i remeber DMZ (sswedish mag) had lots of numbers about this in the past.
oh well what a discussion...... ;(
cheers
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I can't help but wonder whether it's Dave Haynie who is out of touch with the Amiga scene, or the Amiga scene which is out of touch with the Real World (tm).
I think the latter. I'm as much out of touch with the Real World as anybody else in this community, and as much of an Amiga fan as anybody who is still sticking around. I realise that neither MorphOS or OS4 and their respective hardware platforms are going to make any sort of dent in the desktop computing market any time soon, but - like everybody else - hope that somebody can pull a metaphorical rabbit out of the hatstand's collection of Amiga companies. This is unlikely to be in the form of desktop computing, and is more likely to be in the realms of embedded systems. Unfortunately this doesn't help the Amiga desktop users with the small issue of software. I do however believe that the Amiga has the potential to get a reasonable sized desktop market, but most people won't even give it a glance.
Great interview though. I never realised that quite so much was going on at Escom, but then they only had around a year to prove themselves (which isn't really very long when it comes to engineering). Escom were the only ones that really had a chance to continue the Amiga line in the way Commodore might have done. It is now far too late to do that, and the momentum from existing users - which would have ensured good sales - has largely faded away leaving only a small subset.
Chris
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Great article.
Actually I agree with Haynie, and not because I'm into hero worship...I'm not, but he's right about most things.
Even the Amiga Name argument, and hey, when he was at PIOS proclaiming his company was the next Amiga, I was actively, telling everyone on c.s.a.m that Dave Haney and Kitel were splitting the Amiga market, and they were the usurpers, and despite his credentials, why should we bother with the PIOS One, since its not a true Amiga.
What's changed, is the markets has gone from 200,000 to 100,000 to 50,000 to 10,000.
Who the heck cares if MorphOS is splitting the market.....the market is not even 5% of what it was 4 years ago....split away, it hardly matters anymore.
What matters now, is who expands beyond this market.
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I think one of the better things mentionned in the interview was the need to foster creativity in engineering (and hopefully elsewhere.)
In order to create something revolutionary, you need to be able to approach it by other angles. Flexing your creativity muscles at other tasks can make you tackle a problem using a unique perspective.
(Edit: Eek... edited my lousy english. :P)
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@ Skyraker
Incredible.... we're given a lengthy in depth interview, covering a multitude of topics and this thread is almost entirely preocupied with the fact that Dave Haynie isn't particuarly interested in Morphos.
Very sad indeed.
I agree!
As I mentioned early in this thread, I think it was a great interview, even though I question some statements that obviously was made without knowledge of facts. But I am not troubled with that! The efforts that Dave put down in this document (because that is what it is - a document) is great, and it was indeed a very interesting reading.
(The following is not directed to you, Skyraker)
I also notice how suddenly some people crawl back to the various community forums (not only amiga.org) from whatever corner of the Internet they have spent the last six months or so, just to **fuel the fire**. The fire does not need fuel, it needs a Fire Estinguisher. But actually there is a company that benefit from the split in the community, a company that wants segregation, and thus some people have their agendas ...
Pathetic! I wish those bugs would just silently crawl back under the rocks were they are living these days ...
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Seriously, I really liked this article! it was really a great read, I hope Dave contributes more!!
AO staff, I am really suprised, you guys have done a really good job here, any chance of grabbing a Carl Sass one??? hint hint Or perhaps one of Dave's contacts can help, you obviously have a finger in a pie :))
Really, well done Guys/Gals, really good stuff!.
Thanks AO!
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We already did an interview with Carl Sassenrath ..
Check out the interview section on the left of the main site :-)
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Great interview. It's always interesting and funny to hear what Hayz means. He even answered my question. :-)
But this thing shocked me a bit:
"So boy, did I feel stupid, being fooled by a kid, even if, as Skal guesses, he’s from Gypsy blood."
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Sounds like Dave hasn't even tried Morphos,
if he had I think he would be more interested and excited by it. (my opinion)
I think the Amiga feel is captured and enhanced
on the PEG.
Being a long time Amigan I was skeptical until I really seen it in action. :-D
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tormedhammaren said,
Great interview. It's always interesting and funny to hear what Hayz means. He even answered my question.
But this thing shocked me a bit:
"So boy, did I feel stupid, being fooled by a kid, even if, as Skal guesses, he’s from Gypsy blood."
I noticed that myself. If it's insensitive, try to remember that the whole idea of 'gypsies' is far removed from us Americans; we only get exposed to the stereotype out of fairy tales, or as genealogic trivia over a few beers. (This coming from a guy who's only knowledge of his ancestors has them as "horse thieves." A lot can get lost, or just stops mattering after a generation or two.)
So while it'd be great if we'd wake up and remember there's a planet full of people out there, it can easily seem like a vague pejorative to us; same reasoning that makes "raised by wolves" or "born in a barn" seem okay, we don't expect the target groups to exist. Dumb and probably awful, but people manage to do worse. (http://www.engrish.com/adultsonly.php)
Maybe Skal should've known better?
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After reading those creepy stories about Commodore and un-released Amigas (A3000p, A1000p, A300...) I made a trip into that historic repository that is The Dave Haynie Files (http://www.thule.no/haynie/).
I downloaded the whole 10MB archive and there is a very interesting paper in the /devcon93 folder with some ideas in it about improving the User interface.
There are some already implemented things in hacks and third-party gui toolkits. Major stuff is about enhancing the looks, and there are a lot of details never done before on an Amiga, perhaps on any system. (Menus that transform in windows with controls on it??).
Visions of future from the past... A future that never happened.
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Interesting. I'm not too surprised by his Peggy/MOS comments. He has stated in the past he doesn't have much more than a curiosity towards OS4/A1, so why would he be interested in a variant? His curiosity in OS4 comes from a nostalgia stand point.
This pretty well sums up my point of few towards OS4 and that's why I am going to the BeneluxAmiga Show: I'm just curious (as an ex-Amiga user)
If OS4 turns out to be nice I MIGHT even buy one of those mini-itx AmigaONE's...just for fun....
My opinion about MorphOS (not Pegasos: that's 'just' hardware): it's not real Amiga, just as WinUAE is not (ow...I feel flames/trolls coming) ;-)
As someone that's looking into the today Amiga-market (or what's left of it) it's plain SILLY that it's divided into two camps...it's like two dogs fighting for 1 small crumb of food...and both starving...
I also understand that OS4 is not going to run on a Pegasos-board: another SILLY thing...
If things continue like this both AmigaONE/OS4 and MorphOS/Pegasos are going down the drain... :-(
This is just my humble opinion....
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WONDERFUL! Thank you, it was great to read it, and I'm saving, printing, and spreading copies. Yay!
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This threead made for very interestin reading.
Is there a way to see the original interview, as the links are all broken (probably stuck on Xoops)
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I hope this got migrated to the new system, but there's the Wayback Machine (http://web.archive.org/web/20031226140010/http://amiga.org/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=15) in the meantime.
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I hope this got migrated to the new system, but there's the Wayback Machine (http://web.archive.org/web/20031226140010/http://amiga.org/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=15) in the meantime.
I'm not sure if it did as the link still points to an old xoops article id. As a rule, the migration scripts updated links in posts to point to the correct place after stuff was imported.
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This threead made for very interestin reading.
Is there a way to see the original interview, as the links are all broken (probably stuck on Xoops)
There is new interview with Dave Haynie in the latest Amiga Future magazine. I read it and it is very interesting - he talks about how he got involved with the Amiga, what projects they had and what got on hold by the Commodore managers. It is much more recent than the one linked here.
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I can't read this. Tried both Firefox and Chrome.
The requested URL /modules/sections/index.php was not found on this server.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
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I can't read this. Tried both Firefox and Chrome.
The requested URL /modules/sections/index.php was not found on this server.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
See here:
I'm not sure if it did as the link still points to an old xoops article id. As a rule, the migration scripts updated links in posts to point to the correct place after stuff was imported.
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There's an American bloke working here who has Romani blood in him, so it can't be so rare as that or were all the American Gypsies driven force driven to Oz?
tormedhammaren said,
I noticed that myself. If it's insensitive, try to remember that the whole idea of 'gypsies' is far removed from us Americans; we only get exposed to the stereotype out of fairy tales, or as genealogic trivia over a few beers. (This coming from a guy who's only knowledge of his ancestors has them as "horse thieves." A lot can get lost, or just stops mattering after a generation or two.)
So while it'd be great if we'd wake up and remember there's a planet full of people out there, it can easily seem like a vague pejorative to us; same reasoning that makes "raised by wolves" or "born in a barn" seem okay, we don't expect the target groups to exist. Dumb and probably awful, but people manage to do worse. (http://www.engrish.com/adultsonly.php)
Maybe Skal should've known better?
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There's an American bloke working here who has Romani blood in him, so it can't be so rare as that or were all the American Gypsies driven force driven to Oz?
You are aware that you here directed questions to a posting that is more than 7 years old? :laughing:
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Who last checked the board 22/06/10, so it's possible he'll see the message!
You are aware that you here directed questions to a posting that is more than 7 years old? :laughing: