Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: Kees on August 28, 2003, 10:01:59 PM
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In a press-release (http://www.merlancia.com/newsandpr/MIND27082003.html), Merlancia has announced two new Merlancia Amiga computers.
The Amiga MCC 1000 (http://www.merlancia.com/mcc/amdspecs.html), wich will be available in September, and the Amiga MCC 1200 (http://www.merlancia.com/mcc/ppcspecs.html), wich will be availble on October. Both computers based on the Pentagram 'MCC' Designs.
At this point it is unclear if an OS will be delivered with these new computers.
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Don't be fooled by our competitors' products.
I'm very confused - I guess that they are referring to the A1 and the Peg, but the MCC doesn't appear to run any of the Amigoid OSes (OS4 isn't ported and wouldn't run on the x86 anyway, Genesi say they don't have a deal and MOS isn't ported, and I haven't heard anything from the AROS team). To me, it sounds like a standard x86 or slightly custom PPC board in a nice case - not aimed at the same market (ie Amigans) at all :-?
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Oh boy this is getting weird. Care to clarify RC?
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I would not buy one to me it will always be the empty case that gateway fobbed us off with. :-?
maybe its a case for an a1200 .
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I have found that in anything Amiga related it's a good idea to look
and test system yourself before even considering purchasing it.
Of this Merlancias new PPC system there as a thread about a week a ago
speculating on possibility it woudl be upcoming Pegasos 2 motherbaord
in ab box. But I don't think that's giong to be likely.
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One has an Athlon, the other has a PPC? Now this is truly weird.
On second glance, though, I have to say I wouldn't want one of these things on my desktop. Then again, I'm a dedicated tower use with a 21" monitor. For compact, non-tower systems, I can't imagine using anything but an iMac-like case.
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that ppc one....heh..what os will it use?
the price is quite nice though its merlancia ...
yet another hoax?
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To me its to little mile to late i cant see there being a market for it with the amigaone and pegasos already available . :-)
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To me its to little mile to late i cant see there being a market for it with the amigaone and pegasos already available .
The Pegasos and A1 are motherboards. These are systems. And it's not any everyday PC tower either, it is a custom design that both has an interesting history and some personality.
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It calls itself "Merlancia AMIGA MCC," so it should be Amiga. It has an Amiga floppy drive. But what runs on X86? UAE? Amiga Forever? Bernie's newest creation???
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@Marky_D_Sahd
After his experience with H&P, do you honestly think Bernie would get remotely involved with the likes of Merlancia?
What you are seeing here is a sad attempt at getting some attention. There is no product.
(I love the bit about purchasing all the IP associated with the MMC. It sounds like special carpentry skills were used when they made that pathetic mock-up model)
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@bhoggett
How about we wait until September is here and gone before we make such a snap judgement. September's only a few days away, after all.
I've never seen the point in automatically saying that everything Merlancia is either bad or a hoax. I hope Ryan sells a million of these things, especially if there's real Amiga stuff inside.
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Ryan answerd a few questions about the OS that will be used on www.amigaworld.org
we do plan on including both AmigaOS and Amiga-alike OSes with our products.
I'll believe it, when i see it ...
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I asked some questions to Merlancia at my website, and one of the interesting things:
"We do have plans on an Amiga styled keyboard layout in the future (TouchSmart model) and we do plan on including both AmigaOS and Amiga-alike OSes with our products."
You can read more on: www.amigaworld.org
Regards,
Michal
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As a side-note, the dropping of this site-fued is turning out great, as scoops on one site are picked up on the others.
Thanks one and all for this.
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:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
This is the best hoax yet!
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redfox
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At this point it is unclear if an OS will be delivered with these new computers.
At this point, I'd say it's unclear if the COMPUTERS would be deilvered..... but some call me skeptical. ;-)
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@weirdami
I would agree with you, if it was any other company than Merlancia (o.k. AInc too ;-) ),
but as it stand, we are talking about an completly "unclear" product, by a
company only known for hoaxes and fooling partners (in cases where those
weren't just invented) :-P
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so bbrv said they don't cooperate with Merlancia, don't have any
partnership with them etc. (as it was stated on M.'s site recently).
But M. could still act as a simple reseller for the Peg II and put
them in those boxes, couldn't they?
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Theoretically, Merlancia could sell the Pegasos motherboard bundled with a special version of AmigaOS (would mean there would have to BE such a thing, but given some time it's at least theoretically possible).
Practically:
I wouldn't trust Merlancia any further than I can throw a lorry. Which isn't TOO far, I don't mind admitting.
But if it means Merlancia are trying to get their #### together I am at least willing to give them a chance. The case design is ok, and a unified look is sometimes good for recognition. Think IBM, HP, Apple and you'll know what I mean. The AmigaOne is currently lacking this, unfortunately.
Actually, I would rather have a desktop case with AOne on the front, styled after the A3000 or A4000.
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Hi,
I have no doubt they will come out with those machines. As for the OS, tricky. I do not think OS4 will be running on it. Don't think Eyetech is keen on others to come out with certified OS4 hardware. If you read the next:
"Don't be fooled by our competitors' products. The Amiga MCC series products are fully retail packaged multimedia computers and servers, not just bare logic boards like our competition offers. Don't settle for a system that you have to piece together with parts that you have to purchase after the fact, or spend frustrating hours setting up. The MCC is ready to use right out of the box with a variety of specialized platforms available including a general use desktop, a multimedia/video composing station, and advanced servers."
So wich OS? I think Linux for the x86 machine. Maybe BeOS like OS's. But even from reading the above about the competitors', I would say that on the PPC machine we will have MorphOS. Pretty sure about that, ;-) And if not, Bill: jump on that wagon there.
Coder
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@alx:
To me, it sounds like a standard x86 or slightly custom PPC board in a nice case
The x86 is probably standard, but the PPC sounds like the Pegasos. Bill Buck commented recently that someone else would buy Pegasos boards and license AmigaOS4, I've speculated that this would be Merlancia for over a year now...
I still don't _trust_ Merlancia, but it would make sense to license OS4 for Pegasos and sell it as the MCC.
A different question is if there's any Pegasi left or if we're talking Peg2.
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this should be added to the current poll :-P
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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@Coder:
I don't think Eyetech has any say in the matter. If someone wants to license OS4 for alternative hardware Hyperion/Amiga Inc are NOT in a position to turn them down without some real consideration.
But if the hardware is a Peg, Hyperion WOULD need some kind of copy protection to ensure that only Amiga branded machines (sold with OS4) will run OS4. Otherwise you're looking at a huge piracy potential which Hyperion are NOT willing to accept. But all this is speculation, no reason to go off the wall until it's been confirmed/denied officially :-)
(OS4 on the Peg with a proper licence kinda WOULD prick a hole in the balloon of a certain petitioning Swede, though).
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Hi,
I can understand that some companies would not be happy if OS4 would run on "not certified" hardware. I mean, those companies pay Amiga so that OS4 runs on their hardware and there you have some other hardware were it runs on. Not right.
But like I said, I am pretty much sure that the Amiga MCC 1200 will have MorphOS to run.
@olegil
I don't think Eyetech has any say in the matter.
I agree. But would be nice for them to be the only one. :-)
Coder
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As a side-note, the dropping of this site-fued is turning out great, as scoops on one site are picked up on the others
Yep :-) That's how it should be.
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Despite all this, I like the case design, and I'd even buy one. I mean the case, not the systems. Are the cases available separately?
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From Merlancia ... I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, no way.
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www.amigaworld.org have asked Merlancia some questions and so on. Read on if you want to. Is this a hoax, weve asked about that to.
I am not against theme or love them, just that I wanted to know if there is any activity at all.
Well, I hope it gives something.
Regards,
Michal, www.amigaworld.org
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@Ole-Egil:
I don't think Eyetech has any say in the matter.
They shouldn't, but some things (http://amigapop.8bit.co.uk/reply021203.html) really make you wonder...
(OS4 on the Peg with a proper licence kinda WOULD prick a hole in the balloon of a certain petitioning Swede, though).
How so?
(I assume you're referring to me, or any of the other Swedes, who are petitioning AInc on this matter.)
I mean, what has changed?
Has the compulsory trademark licensing + OS bundling + hw-vendor supplied dongle requirements been revoked? If that had happened, it'd be a GOOD thing, and it'd show that AInc listened to its market. No popped balloons in that case, maybe popped champagne bottles. But this hasn't happened.
If anything, this farce serves to yet again illustrate how absolutely worthless and counterproductive this supposed "customer protection" and "quality/compatibility assurance" nonsense really is.
It would mean that the freakshow ran by that kid Ryan, Merlancia(!!!), arguably the company with the worst track record (vapour-ware wise, legally, and so on...) in the silly former Amiga market, is considered Good Enough for us stupid customers by AInc, that this parody of a company (Merlancia, not Ainc this time) should be trusted to wield the "Amiga" trademark, that their vaporware product has passed through AInc's strict quality assurance procedure, that AmigaOS4 has been found to run flawlessly on the Pegasos mobo that this vapourbox allegedly would contain...
"From the top of the company to the bottom, we are committed to championing the cause of quality for the consumer and will ensure that substandard products do not make it into the Amiga market where they can do irreparable damage to the reputation of the platform. Licencees will have to develop and resource a full customer solution, with guarantees on product quality, delivery, and most important of all post sales support, with firm commitments to repair, replacement and turnaround, elements that have blighted the platform over the last five years. (http://os.amiga.com/corporate/041202-mcewen.shtml)"
In light of what we all have seen, all of that is nothing but a sick joke.
Let's see what reputation the "Amiga" trademark has gained with AInc's trademark licensing.
AmigaDE: It's been three years, and it does not yet exist. It hasn't been demoed. No product has ever ran it. The company behind the licensed technology has said it can't be used to build what AInc announced.
AAPlayer/AACE/whatever: A whole lot of former "partners" with changed minds. Two sets of games from third parties that only run on embedded Windows versions, and that mostly are of worse quality than the Java games that people download for free.
AmigaOS: First discontinued ("it's dead, DE is the future"), then luckily picked up by a third party. When it's released people won't be allowed to buy it, unless they at the same time buy overpriced hardware from a restricted subset of a third party market, for no other reason than to artificially create a source of income from trademark licenses.
"AmigaOne 1200": Discontinued vapourware, while promised to be "on schedule and r...". Oh well. You all know Dammy's favourite. ;)
Teron CX/"AmigaOne SE": Flawed hardware and firmware, severely overpriced by the licensee, never ran AmigaOS, never tested by AInc, was never meant to be a consumer product, discontinued right under the nose of the licensee.
The "Amiga" trademark has so far been haphazardly slapped on ONE functional, useful and released third party product - The Teron PX ("AmigaOne XE"). But AmigaOS still doesn't run on it (yet it's passed AInc's compatibility tests), nobody at AInc has even seen a board (yet it's passed their quality certification, even though it didn't even have Gerald Carda's "wire-fix" at the time it was first sold as an "AmigaOne"), it's never been sold with AmigaOS nor a firmware dongle as required, there are obvious delivery problems, it costs $300 more from the licensee than what another more reputable dealer was going to charge before they changed their minds during their hardware testing, the licensee has no control over the future of the product, and customer support seems to mean "there's a Debian manual with the latest boards, and haven't you been signed up to that customer-created Yahoo mailinglist yet?".
And at the same time, another license applicant (apparently very capable, experienced and with a good track record) has been turned down or plain ignored (http://ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1061874058&category=forum&number=8#comment), while judging by this story Merlancia (a clown operation that most sane people wouldn't trust to supervise the drying process of a newly painted wall) would have gotten a license!? I know it's been said that Merlancia has borrowed money to AInc, but COME ON!
If you'd want to buy AmigaOS for a Pegasos(II), you'd not be allowed to buy your hardware anywhere but from Merlancia[/i]! How wonderful...
Oh yeah, I feel great being protected like this! :P
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>this should be added to the current poll
Actually, the (original) MCC was my reason for answering "other" on the poll.
I'm firmly in the "see it to believe it" camp. I won't seriously consider an AmigaONE without seeing one, running AmigaOS4, in a dealer first either.
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From what I have read about Merlancia in the past
month, my only comment would be
Iwin 2 - The Revenge
:-)
Varthall
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Don't expect a full reply, Seehund. Way too much text there for a friday ;-)
But those who bought the SE while it was still shipping will be able to run OS4 on it when it is ready. I don't see what you're on about the firmware about either. What's wrong with it? I have mine right here, just so you know. Yes, there's been updates, but surely you don't expect there to never be firmware updates?
Or did you not hear about the lack of 82c686B support in the Softex firmware, which is the REAL reason the developer SE version shipped with the wrong firmware compared to the end user version 3 months later?
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I quite liked the MCC style case, it could have popularised Amiga once again with it's cool aesthetics in much the same way that Apple did with the IMac. However, the hard part is designing the hardware inside, and the MCC was probably nothing more than a lump of hand-crafted clay - much like a static concept car at a motorshow.
Back to Merlancia though, before we all get too cynical, we should at least give them the benefit of the doubt and see what happens in September.
In all honesty, I don't really trust A.Inc (please note, as distinct from Hyperion, Eyetech, MOS etc) any more than Merlancia, so I'll be interested to see what happens.
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@fnord
Merlancia is not listed as a reseller for Genesi. Not anyone can just be a reseller it must be approved. Judging from their trackrecord, I doubt Ryan and Merlancia would qualify.
magnetic
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olegil: There is also another alternative to PPC board. I have not
followed Mai as closely as I used to but didn't they announce
some micro-atx variant? Was is something like Aone-lite? If Merlancia
woudl get those (assuming those boards are available) there could be
way to get OS4 ...
Neat, easy and...Well, there would be no problem with names etc..
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@JoannaK
I remember Ben H discussing Mai's MicroATX board design at Amiwest. If Ryan has partnered with Mai for using this or even Mai's Mini-ITX motherboard, then he's taken a good step in the right direction to establishing himself as a serious business.
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BHoggett: (I love the bit about purchasing all the IP associated with the MMC. It sounds like special carpentry skills were used when they made that pathetic mock-up model)
Not only that, but the photo of the MCC on Merlancia's website is one of the original photos from when Gateway was in charge. Do they even have a real mock-up? ;-)
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The MicroATX and the AmigaOne G3-Lite are not the same board. The MicroATX is an XE shrunk to mAXT, the Lite is an SE shrunk to double-eurocard (220x160mm or so, I believe). Details are furry, but don't think the mATX will be sold by Eyetech.
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Hmm.. so Mai mATX board could be available to others willing to make
compatible systems? Would fit to MCC-box and should be easy to port
OS4 too cause it's essentially identical on chip level to current
Aone.
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@olegil&@seehund
olegil, the only reason I can see that you just say 'it's too much text for a Friday' is you just don't have a better response. Seehund's talk of the discontinued SE product, was just part of his larger discussion of the licensing program.
His letter was a very detailed, very appropriate response the earlier person who took a potshot at him for his petition efforts.
I have to say, it is so overwhelmingly obvious that the 'quality assurance' reasoning that was publicly given by Amiga, Inc. as a defense for the licensing program, is very clearly wrong. All the licensee's, all 1 of them, got their licenses before products were ever tested on OS 4 (which has not yet every booted on these products)...and many of the licensed products never made it to market or were yanked unexpectedly....they were never tested for quality by Amiga, Inc.
I didn't sign Seehund's petition. The reason was simple, Amiga, Inc. should have the right to have a licensing program. The reason for this licensing program is to generate money for Amiga, Inc.
Unfortunately, Amiga, Inc. forgot that its OK to just tell the truth, and in the long run, thats the best policy. This particular lie, (just one of many)....hasn't done anything but hurt them. Their fans would have approved of a purely income driven licensing scheme...but some of their fans, now former fans, got tired of all the misdirection and lies.
BTW, when Apple's Steve Jobs pulled the Apple clone licenses the reason was 'It doesn't generate enough REVENUE'
He made up no bull@##$# reason about it being for quality assurance.
I point this out, because the hero worshipper's who are worshipping business FAILURES (I won't say the name for fear of 'trolling')....should actually take a look at business SUCCESSES for once.
They are not 'pragmatists' who will do 'anything' to survive. They conduct themselves with honor.
I sincerly hope that our business leaders Bill McEwen and Bill Buck realize (someday) that some very successful business folks, like Steve Jobs and yes, even Bill Gates, are not pragmatists who will do anything for a dollar. No, they are very tough people, and with very clear visions, BUT they have LIMITS. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates both will honor a contract. They both can enforce a EULA with a clear conscious knowing they do their best to respect the EULA's of other companies.
I know for a fact, with direct knowledge that some of our business leaders will violate a EULA in a heartbeat at the same time they will attempt to enforce their own IP rights...its called hypocrisy, and its really not necessary, even if they believe it is...and the worst crime of all....it's not even going to make them a business success, ...worse, it will ensure they fail.
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@MarkTime:
I've been in and out of doctors offices and hospitals trying to find out what's causing my pains this week, yesterday was NOT a good day for long texts. Today hasn't been much better.
Also, it is NOT my job to defend Eyetech/Hyperion/Amiga Inc. I just don't happen to disagree with Hyperion in this case. Also, much of the argument falls flat on its face when you consider the fact that OS4 hasn't even been released for ANY platform yet. Not much point in yelling about lack of support for other systems when it doesn't even support the targetted system, no?
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JoannaK asked,
Hmm.. so Mai mATX board could be available to others willing to make compatible systems? Would fit to MCC-box and should be easy to port OS4 too cause it's essentially identical on chip level to current Aone.
Yes, that's the whole point, *BUT* Eyetech is also Mai's official sales partner for the Western market, sort of. See http://www.mai.com/news&events/PressRelease070902_2.html (http://www.mai.com/news&events/PressRelease070902_2.html), though I think the release was 'softened'/'clarified' slightly after the initial announcement. If you ask Mai *where else* you can buy a Teron, at least when "the Amiga scene" has ever been mentioned in communication, they point you to Eyetech.
So it depends whether Mai releases the mATX/ITX(?) designs as references (the 'Teron mPX' or whatnot does make it sound like *that* design will be 'open'), how many after-the-fact tweaks will be needed to make them runnable (Eyetech's runs presumably have the few subtle improvements routed in, and Eyetech probably footed the bill for the manufacturing changes, while Mai are happy to point back to the slightly-bugfixed product as a Teron), and how many other companies are interested. Not necessarily in that order.
After that, to boot OS4 it'd need two basic things:
*RDB support in the firmware - IIRC, I brought this up to a Terrasoft representative I was quizzing, and they seemed a bit surprised... Though maybe I only got as far as the history of the BoXeR name with the rep, and I'm thinking of the side thread I had going with Thomas (Frieden.. gah, can't keep track of the avatar names!) as per his involvement in U-Boot... An independent project not thinking of the Amiga scene probably wouldn't bother including that support in their ROMs.
*Whatever dongle code/mechanism/??? is supposed to exist to prevent this from happening without AInc.'s sanction.
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@Floid:
The official firmware for the Teron is UBoot, which Hyperion wrote. They included RDB support (I'm booting Linux from a boot partition in an RDB right here), and thus all Terons got this ability. It's not like each and every reseller of Teron boards has to write their own firmware...
The dongle code is another matter. That isn't part of UBoot, it's just code placed in the same flashrom by an external program...
I actually believe that someone who buys a Teron to run Linux on it would do himself a favour by looking into using RDB instead of MBR. I've been trying to improve amiga-fdisk so it's easier to create a valid RDB, and Sten Luther (has a Peg, does Linux work) is including the v50 (OS4) bootloader extensions in libparted, the partitioning library used in the upcoming Debian Sarge installer. Now all I have to do is finish my changes to "kernel-package" and submit them. Then we port the AmigaOne "boot-floppies" changes into "debian-installer". From there on, anyone who installs Debian Sarge on a Teron/AmigaOne will have the option to use RDB :-)
(remember that they would have to use the amigaone linux kernel as well ;-) )
Edit:
Ok, they didn't _write_ UBoot. They ported it and added x86 emulator, menu, RDB support and CatWeasel keyboard support. Possibly more.
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@Varthall
Iwin 2 - The Revenge
lmao
I remember that Iwin hoax :-)
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Olegil wrote,
@Floid:
The official firmware for the Teron is UBoot, which Hyperion wrote. They included RDB support (I'm booting Linux from a boot partition in an RDB right here), and thus all Terons got this ability. It's not like each and every reseller of Teron boards has to write their own firmware...
Agreed/understood. But with everyone so x86-centric and the RDB fdisk just now coming out from under the radar (where did I see you complaining about trying to convince Debian to allow/host/sponsor/acknowledge a RDB-centric install image?), one wonders if resellers smart enough to poke at the firmware might remove the option to avoid confusing people (while, say, putting in a splash screen to 'productize' it or something). That point is, of course, moot until they find a second company interested in selling the designs as 'something elses' instead of 'Terons.' ... since 'Teron' sort of implies whatever configuration Mai wants to impose on their brand. In the same sense as buying a Gigabyte board implies such-and-such BIOS as is meant to ship with that model, while the same thing sold as a Gateway is going to have a splash screen, maybe some customization in the configuration menu or options hardcoded out, maybe some of the 'recovery partition' - or now, 'EULA partition' :-o "added value" that Wintel OEMs like to slip in...
Serious question - who's holding the current sources to fulfill the GPL end of the bargain? I flipped through the Sourceforge CVS to remember which Frieden I was badgering ;-), and didn't see anything marked "-XE," but then, that might not have been necessary given the similarities, and there were semi-recent commits. Is Sourceforge current with what's shipping on the boards, and if not, who's door would the next party in line have to knock on to get them, MAI's or Eyetech's? I can imagine a firm with no interest in "Amiga" patches not bothering to buy a board from Eyetech to entitle them to the absolute current sources. (Not that I think obfuscation is anyone's intention, but... at least from what I remember around the Terrasoft time, 'best practices' for this hardware/firmware combo might not be as clear as Mai or any Amigan wants to think.)
The dongle code is another matter. That isn't part of UBoot, it's just code placed in the same flashrom by an external program...
Yep. And the obvious 'political' reason/answer...
I actually believe that someone who buys a Teron to run Linux on it would do himself a favour by looking into using RDB instead of MBR.
[...]
Agreed. I was hoping Terrasoft was going to roll with their Boxers, use the RDB code (since their Mac customers are used to more flexibility than the Wintel scheme, and if I remember right, the RDB is actually simpler and more flexible than whatever Apple's been using), and get at least one Amiga-originated spec discussed among 'real-world' techies again. Free advertising and all that.
But people do silly things.
(remember that they would have to use the amigaone linux kernel as well )
Okay, editing this after I bothered to read things... Good to hear there's cooperation between "sides" happening, but does that mean there's no Grand Unified PowerPC Kernel happening? ...and if so, is that off the radar entirely, or just something that hasn't been worked towards yet? It'd be a little bloaty, I'm sure, but it'd be nice to have one .ISO that works on both platforms. (Then again, I'm not down with the Debian install procedure, and haven't tried in four years... You guys don't copy your kernel off the bootfloppy set, do you?)
Hope you're feeling better, by the way... Sorry to make you slog through this if you're not!
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I can't beleive that an Amiga hardware is done on x86 hardware. It will kill the Legend !
And the OS dilemna is weird. Can't it be OS 4 ?
If it's not a new hoax , I hope the PPC one will have success. Else I will consider that Amiga World is starting to roaten on x86 ...
By the way, the design is not really pretty. The old box from Merlancia was nicer ...
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Ooooooooooo....
I gotta see this when they come out :-)