Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: Kees on August 21, 2003, 12:28:11 AM
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Bill McEwen comments on the Thendic-Amiga litigation and reminds AmigaOS users of the end-user licensing agreement.
"It has come to our attention that Mr. Bill Buck has made several statements about the on-going litigation between our firms. He has stated that he has won the case, and the we have agreed to port AmigaDE to Pegasos, as well as making certain claims that he has rights to our logos and trademarks."
Read more at Amiga.com (http://www.amiga.com/corporate/082003-mcewen.shtml) ...
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There will be one warning .. and thats this one ..
NO FLAMING and NO TROLLING !
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Ok. have to admit this was not exactly response I was hoping for
but. At least it shows one part of the story.
Expect to hear more sometime soon. I have some itch this ain't all
over yet.
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Expect a fight, expect a BIG fight.
I have coments I'd like to add to this, but I won't fuel this fire. It has enough ignition already :-x
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-edit-
Ya know, I don't want a trollfest, so I won't give them ammunition. Consider my comments retracted for the sake of peace.
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"It has come to our attention that Mr. Bill Buck has made several statements about the on-going litigation between our firms. He has stated that he has won the case, and the we have agreed to port AmigaDE to Pegasos, as well as making certain claims that he has rights to our logos and trademarks."
May we have links to such statements? Since my (and I do say myself) through look over the community forums can't find any claims to having won the case. :-?
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Downix:
Posted by bbrv (Trusted user) on 20-Aug-2003 14:04:16In Reply to Comment 259:
DaveP, it is sad that it has come to this. It certainly did not need to.
The situation is as follows:
We felt we had a valid license agreement. Amiga Inc. did not and contested this. We took the appropriate legal action to resolve the disagreement. All documents associated with the resolution of this matter will be in the public domain. In the meanwhile, as we know and are comfortable with the result of this disagreement, we have added the Amiga trademarks to our website and linked to the appropriate webpage.
If someone is being "unprofessional" in this matter, it is not Genesi.
Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill
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Posted by bbrv (Trusted user) on 20-Aug-2003 14:29:22In Reply to Comment 266:
Dave, we have someone working on the port now. They have DE and they have a Pegasos. We will shortly have all the sources and all the documentation associated with DE to further our efforts.
Our use of the tradmarks is valid.
As for Intent, we would be very happy to be working with Francis Charig and Tao, but that is a completely different matter.
Best regards,
R&B
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Posted by bbrv (Trusted user) on 20-Aug-2003 14:31:43In Reply to Comment 266:
P.S. To avoid any further confusion, the legal process has been settled in our favor.
Can we move on now
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So Downix, "settled" usually means that someone has won or there has been some legal result. Still want to mince words?
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downix wrote:
I see from this message that Mr. McEwan is misreading bbrv's statements. Mr. Buck expressed confidence in the case, not saying "we've won." It's an example of reading into statements what you either want, or fear.
Beg to disagree sir.
See for yourself, on this comment: http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1061267806&category=forum&start=251#me
ssage272 (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1061267806&category=forum&start=251#message272) Bill Buck himself says....
"Posted by bbrv (Trusted user) on 20-Aug-2003 14:31:43
In Reply to Comment 266:
P.S. To avoid any further confusion, the legal process has been settled in our favor.
Can we move on now?"
and further..
In this comment: http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1061267806&category=forum&start=251#me
ssage269 (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1061267806&category=forum&start=251#message269)
and I quote.
Posted by bbrv (Trusted user) on 20-Aug-2003 14:29:22
In Reply to Comment 266:
Dave, we have someone working on the port now. They have DE and they have a Pegasos. We will shortly have all the sources and all the documentation associated with DE to further our efforts.
Our use of the tradmarks is valid. As for Intent, we would be very happy to be working with Francis Charig and Tao, but that is a completely different matter.
Best regards,
R&B
It appears that Bill McEwen's comments do indeed appear to have some legitamacy.
Regards
Mikey C
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@bloodline
AFAIK he didn't. Wayne made a comment it was getting ported, but not in this contect IIRC.
BTW you missed the last round of A500s which went pretty cheap. Don't forget this time (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=redrumloa&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50) :-D
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@downix/Genesi
A few quotes from Bill Bucks posts from ANN yesterday:
"P.S. To avoid any further confusion, the legal process has been settled in our favor.
Can we move on now? "
"Dave, we have someone working on the port now. They have DE and they have a Pegasos. We will shortly have all the sources and all the documentation associated with DE to further our efforts.
Our use of the tradmarks is valid. "
Bill buck did more than express confidence in the case as you can clearly see from these quotes.
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-edit-
Not going to give the trolls any ammunition. I'm not a lawyer, and frankly neither are the bulk of you out there. Let's can the legal crap and discuss something more productive.
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Downix Wrote:
I don't see the conflict here, actually. You're taking 2+2 and getting 14.5 here.
Read those statements much closer, the exact terms used. "sounds like" and "is actually stated" are many times two different things, to remind you
Sorry, but to me those quotes mentioned above seem to be quite damning. I fail to see how they can be interpreted any other way.
However, it's your view point, I don't agree with it, but there you go, I guess people will have to make their mind up.
Alternatively, you could provide evidence from that ANN thread to back up your claim.
Regards
Mikey C
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I also interperate these statemenst in the same way as Mikey C.
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@Red
You can make any thread into an A500 thread can't you? :-P ;-)
Don't forget to download your copy of MPlayer! (http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44705)!
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Tse, you'd think a webmaster would know how to use an open proxy...
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Tse, you'd think a webmaster would know how to use an open proxy...
I'm still learning :-)
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I didn't mean you, Kees, I meant HMetal. I assume you were able to tell Bucket was him because of his IP. So he's not exactly l33t despite being a webmaster. ;-)
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It's one thing to post their side of the story of whatever legal shenanigans are going on this week, but I find it sad that he takes the opportunity to attack AmigaOS users.
Go after a distributer by all means (eg, a hypothetical retailer selling Pegasos machines running OS4 when it's out), but I never agreed to any EULA, so I'll legally run my legally obtained OS3.9 on anything I damn well like.
Trying to pass off EULAs as legal contracts is one of the things that I dislike about companies such as Microsoft; it's sad to see them going the same route.
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From the Bill McEwans statement:
"Therefore if the Amiga operating system is being used on a non-Amiga branded machine the use would be prohibited."
So where does that leave UAE and Amithlon/ AmigaXL ?
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@doobrey
Or the Draco? How about the Access?
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Mdwh2: those Eula:s are (among other problems on M$ policies) big
reason why I am here at the moment. IF M$ had kept it on sensible
level (like win2k) I might be willing to use their products onward.
BUT with those new Eulas (etc) I really haveto look for some
alternativies.
And IF this agressive Eula is really AmigaInc's official new policy
I'm not going to consider them much longer. What I wonder though is
have they actually consulted any laywers on all this, or do they
assume to be able to follow other bigger companies (like M$) on this
one..
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@JoannaK
I'm also wondering, what EULA? I have a boxed AmigaOS 3.1 here, don't see an EULA anywhere in the material.
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I'm also wondering, what EULA? I have a boxed AmigaOS 3.1 here, don't see an EULA anywhere in the material.
Was EULAs even invented back then? :-)
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@Dan
I got mine right after 3.5 came out, so the price had dropped. (tee hee) So yes, EULA's did exist back then.
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I to am concerned that Bill would go with an EULA threat. It's obvious that this situation is causing much stress on Amiga Inc and Bill personally. When I first read through the comments I did not understand to what "Bucket" was responding to. Though the comments did shed much more light on the statement from Bill McEwen.
@Kees
Thank you for trying to keep amiga.org honorable in all this but I think your failing
@ Wayne
I think what you did was an abuse of your power and in appropriate and make's Kees job much harder
@ Downix
Please think before you post. If your typing something which you know you will retract just don't post it.
@ Ray A Key
Snice your now perma baned from Amiga.org your welcome to send any appropriate, non flame, non trolling comments to me and I'll paste them in to any thread you wish.
@ Amigians
Give it time friends, time will tell which is the best solution. Keep the faith!
Bill "tekmage" Borsari
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@tekmage
I wrote what I wrote because it's what I believe. However, I realized after I got the material from Ray that he was not seeing things the same way I was, and that it would only cause more flaming if I fought him, so I edited to remove the logs to stoke the fire from.
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well despite this reaction from Amiga.inc I still believe what bbrv have said, the situation makes more sense from their end.
Ray is in my opinion a devious character by all accounts, devious beyond corporate or 'non-personal' level... I dont trus thim at all... not even a little...
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@tekmage
You are kidding right?
@all
Keep it clean g**d****t :-x
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@all
Yes sir...
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@redrumloa
Yes SIR!
And is 3pm saturday good with you? 8)
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@downix
Yup, I'll ink it in my calander:-D
whippie!! free some room. Wanna buy a 1993 Camaro Z28 while you are down here?
@all
Sorry for the OT :-P
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@redrumloa
Mopar or no car.
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Yeah,thats what we need ...... more (empty) legal threats by those :-o
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What Wayne did was to defuse the potency of someone who, in the opinion of those run and who OWN this site, had been acting like a troll. Not only were those actions not abusive at all, but they fulfilled the responsibilities of the positions involved.
Having been an umpire in years past, the goal is to be as transparent as possible while ensuring that the rules are obeyed. Kicking someone out of the game is never the first option that you want to take, but when it is necessary, it is necessary. It is not abuse at all.
Kees, by posting what you did on a site run and owned by Genesi employees, and demanding that there be no trolling or flaming, you succeeded in hitting the bullseye—right smack in the middle of it. You have not failed.
Anyone who considers to “cut and paste” the comments of a banned individual should seriously consider again, as they would possibly get themselves banned as well. Please think, and do not act foolishly.
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Well, we now have the official response from Amiga Inc.
The ball is now back to BBRV and co.
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redfox
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My my it all turned into a big circus during the night.
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Yup. Welcome to the Big Top!
Just wait til our Ringmaster Kees has the trolls jump through flaming hoops.
Though I do think we need more clowns.
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Mdwh2: those Eula:s are (among other problems on M$ policies) big
reason why I am here at the moment. IF M$ had kept it on sensible
level (like win2k) I might be willing to use their products onward.
BUT with those new Eulas (etc) I really haveto look for some
alternativies.
And IF this agressive Eula is really AmigaInc's official new policy
I'm not going to consider them much longer. What I wonder though is
have they actually consulted any laywers on all this, or do they
assume to be able to follow other bigger companies (like M$) on this
one..
EULA: To me - If its not on the outside of the box before I buy a product it does not mean squat. :-P
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@Kees
Thank you for trying to keep amiga.org honorable in all this but I think your failing
@ Wayne
I think what you did was an abuse of your power and in appropriate and make's Kees job much harder
@ Downix
Please think before you post. If your typing something which you know you will retract just don't post it.
@ Ray A Key
Snice your now perma baned from Amiga.org your welcome to send any appropriate, non flame, non trolling comments to me and I'll paste them in to any thread you wish.
@ Amigians
Give it time friends, time will tell which is the best solution. Keep the faith!
Totally Agree. Also totally agree with MikeB.
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Grief, get back from a night's sleep and I find strong measures taken against Ray Akey.
It's looks to me as if it's still very much Wayne's Website, With Kees as a "front man".
Sad, I actually had high hopes for this site under Kees guidance.
Looks like my hopes were unfounded.
Back to AmigaWorld for me I guess.
Mikey C
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So where does that leave UAE (CUT)
UAE is usually associated with Amiga Forever 5.x CD (official licensed product). I would like to see Am*thlon like package thrown/bundled** into Amiga Forever 5.x CD suite. Thus increasing it’s attractiveness of the product.
Am*thlon still has an alien OS (e.g. Linux) to support the AmigaOS ecosystem, just like Windows/WinUAE setup except without the bloated Windows** factor.
**Windows Lite mods not included...
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The post by bucket on this thread is factual. it isn't telling any lies, just pointing out some actual comments made by Bill Buck on ANN.
Wayne wrote: The comment [above, signed "bucket"] is not at issue here. The ISSUE is that last night, comments were left on this Website which were insulting and far beyond what we would let ANY mortal get away with. You would agree, had the admins not deleted the posts.
Apperantly, there were some really abusive comments posted under HMetal's signature last night. His account was then frozen, and the abusive posts under his name was removed (I whish I had seen them). Ray A Akey and the site management seems to have agreed to that the account had been hacked, and that the extreme troll posts was written by someone else. His account was re-opened with the promise that he should take it easy in the future, and that he should stay away from this thread. He broke that promise!
I think it's funny how Ray A Akey seems to think that it's totally OK to troll and act like a ####-head at some sites, but not at others.
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Or the Draco?
Does Draco have a licensed AmigaOS Kickstart? (Rhetorical question)…
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I find it hard to believe Akey's account was hacked. Rather it seems like a quickly made excuse for a few radical comments.
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Grief, get back from a night's sleep and I find strong measures taken against Ray Akey.
It's looks to me as if it's still very much Wayne's Website, With Kees as a "front man".
I could not agree more.
I know I emigrated to amigaworld.net, but I´d rather be banned in solidarity with Akey. Wayne and his bunch needed exactly one reason to kick the (last?) amiga inc. guy out of here. Even if it was Bill Buck that started the trolling.
Wayne´s world, Wayne´s world, party time....
I hope you have a good timer in your new job at Genesis Wayne.
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Back to AmigaWorld for me I guess.
Like anyone here cares what you do.
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@Red:
whippie!! free some room. Wanna buy a 1993 Camaro Z28 while you are down here?
Uhm. I wish I could have one of those :-)
But I've decided my next big purchase will be either a house, or a Rolls Royce. Stay tuned to find out which it will be :-)
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@downix:
I'm also wondering, what EULA? I have a boxed AmigaOS 3.1 here, don't see an EULA anywhere in the material.
Genesi specifically mentioned Amiga OS3.9. Whether or not there is a EULA for 3.1 does not really matter in this case. The question is whether there is a EULA for 3.9.
The other question is if it's enforceable.
I would think MarkTime would be all over this, but I guess he's only worried about Apple loosing money from not selling enough hardware.
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Ok, let's make the first on-topic comment for a while ...
Assuming all quotes are true,it does seem to be a
discrepancy between what AInc IP Genesi thinks they can
port to the Pegasos and what AInc will allow. As I read it,
Mr. Buck says the ruling is in their favour. McEwen says
the court's still working on it.
Does anyone have an objective clue as to the status of the
court proceedings, rather than just guessing? Must there
not be some way of finding out if court proceedings are
concluded or not, even if the content of the negotiations are
not disclosed? Perhaps Genesi "won" the first round, but
AInc is appealing, and that's the cause for the different
point of view?
In short, does anyone - not having a severe bias - really
know, or is everybody just guessing as usual and base their
opinions on interpretations of obscyre comments in fora?
.
SlimJim
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Oh my post got deleted...
How surprising!
Amiga.org - the place where people can have their own opinion and post with freedom... or not.
:-D
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looks more likke Kees found out that he was wrong about Ray ... it is the Ray is banned thread that was deleted ...
But I might be wrong :-?
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Well my comment was a reply to the actual post, so I guess I must have been out of line in some way...
care to clarify somebody?
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Wow, some 40 or so comments disappeared! :-?
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@takemehomegrandma
yep... even Wayne's posting has been moderated away...
Good work Kees about keeping this a civilized place.
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Yep, that was good. That discussion didn't lead to anything constructive anyway (or how is it they say, "over there"?).
The site rules applies to *everyone*. Period.
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Though I do think we need more clowns.
Wheeee! *salutes*
I have to admit I've been laughing my $%# off reading all of this.
'Wayne is still the man in control, boo hiss', 'the site shouldn't be called amiga.org, *whine whine*', 'it's not objective *cry cry*'.
Well duh, welcome to the real world.
Unless I'm misstaken this site is owned by Wayne (n00b here, but given all the comments I think I understood that much) and seeing as this is not a company site that would mean he can (and imho should) do pretty much anything with it he likes (ofcourse keeping the regulars happy is usually a good idea).
I may not know that much yet about the circus which is called the Amiga community these days but I do know a thing or 2 about how to run sites and their accompanying forums.
I registered here because of what I read on the forums, not because of the url. And seeing as this is a site by and for people who seem to enjoy discussing certain topics one can either decide to join in or stay out.
Who cares if the forums emphasize MOS more, if you don't like it make new threads or better yet start your own site.
I have NEVER seen that much comments (here and on another site) about this one being so biased. People tend to be biased about a subject if they're willing to invest time to create and build a community/site for it.
It's amazing how much energy seems to be wasted on wanting to change A.org's direction when it's the community that powers this direction.
/me takes off the clown nose and goes back to work
EDIT: ugh, crap, now all the OT posts have been deleted. Clown indeed :-D
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Unbelievable, buck calls us a bunch of morons, and the admins lavish praise upon him. We express a simple opinion and get our posts deleted. :-x :evil:
minus kees :-) .
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I have never praised Bill Buck !
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I thought Buck in exasperation mentioned that there were a lot of morons around - and then some of you just naturally assumed he meant you ; }
I don't think he named names.
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:-D
Prove that by deleting his account! :-)
But, seriously, keep up the good work here...
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my post got deleted??
what was wrong with it?
AMIGA INC IS AMIGA , thats all..
if thats flame ware then this forum is biased!
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Back to AmigaWorld for me I guess.
B-Bye, don't let the door hit you in the ass. You only come to make false acusations and smear BS against this site anyhow.
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Poster: Wolfe Date: 2003/8/21 8:20:32
EULA: To me - If its not on the outside of the box before I buy a product it does not mean squat. :-P
It´s the same for me :-D
Has an EULA everbeen approved in a court in Europe?
Go onto court Bill McEwan I´m sure the lawyers appreciates the money :-D
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I wonder how the account got hacked so easily at this very moment...
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We think that his password was simply guessed ...
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SlimJim asked,
Does anyone have an objective clue as to the status of the court proceedings, rather than just guessing? Must there not be some way of finding out if court proceedings are concluded or not, even if the content of the negotiations are not disclosed? Perhaps Genesi "won" the first round, but AInc is appealing, and that's the cause for the different
point of view?
Good question. Unfortunately, as noted time and time again, the Washington court system is mired in... suck, no matter who's side you're on. See: http://www.metrokc.gov/kcscc/ecr/ecrsum.html (http://www.metrokc.gov/kcscc/ecr/ecrsum.html)
I think that's the right venue for some of this, anyway.
http://www.courts.wa.gov/ (http://www.courts.wa.gov/)
http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/ (http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/)
http://www.legalwa.org/ (http://www.legalwa.org/) seems the place to turn if/when a decision is made at the Appellate or Supreme level.
http://prd.dor.wa.gov/prd_getinfo.asp?traid=601983734 (http://prd.dor.wa.gov/prd_getinfo.asp?traid=601983734) might be of interest. (That's the address of the shuttered offices.)
It would be nice indeed to have any clue at all what's going on. Even SCO had the courtesy to post the text of their complaint.
---
Edit: Oh, and as far as I can tell, this isn't about "what Genesi can port," since, like them or not, I don't think they own AInc. or Hyperion at present, and probably shouldn't have access to sources to conduct their own port(s). Rather, it's that Genesi are representing a deal or settlement as final (with claims of DE and AmigaOS on PegasosPPC.com, if nothing else), while AInc. would (continue to) beg to differ.
What 'negotiations' have been going on behind the curtain, and/or what the courts have decided, seem to remain anyone's guess. A few official-looking things turned up a while back, but IIRC, that was just someone's lawyers getting sent back to square one on procedural grounds. (Anyone remember what that was, or do I have to go scrape ANN after I nap?)
DoubleEdit: Wow, okay, I missed the claim over the DE. Now, since the 'DE' barely exists in public form, I have no idea what that could consist of, but... more power to everyone. If it *is* just a set of components on top of Elate/Intent, it should certainly run atop any port of Intent/Elate (that is, after all, the point, right?), but copyright of the 'real' sources is obviously a legal matter to worry about. In turn, it's probably trivial to disassemble VP bytecode, but legally obtaining the bytecode for a 'product' that's mostly existed under tight license and NDA would be one hell of a trick. Why do I get the feeling Bolton weighs into this, somehow?
...Either that, someone's tracked down individual developers like Jarno (Ami2D) and made them offers they can't refuse, or they picked up a dusty copy of the 'SDK' out of a bargain bin somewhere. :roll:
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redrumloa wrote:
B-Bye, don't let the door hit you in the ass. You only come to make false acusations and smear BS against this site anyhow.
Very cute, you really are one funny guy.
- Ooops there goes another Rib.
You know, it's understandable when another user makes those types of comments, but when a moderator makes it, the site is brought down.
But then again we all know that you prefer the blue side of the fence, so I guess it's hardly surprising you attacking me, given my stance.
Please Keep alienating Pro Amiga people, why don't you? IMHO, your comment continues to undermine the "neutrality" claims of this site.
Wonder who's bright idea it was to make you moderator?
Mikey C
Hmm Wonder if my comment here will be romoved as well?
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"If someone is being "unprofessional" in this matter, it is not Genesi.
Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill"
I thought he stated he didn't want anything to do with the Amiga trademark in the past. ...O MG.....
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Im speechless, this may be a relief to you.
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I contacted both Bill and Fleecy about the so called settlement, the AmigaDE license etc.
They told me categorically that there was no settlement and that the court process was not concluded.
To the best of my knowledge, the judge won't rule on the case until Winter.
A succesful conclusion of the case through settlement would immediately show up in the court documents that certain parties were so keen on to produce in the past.
The case will be struck from the docket etc.
There are no indications of that.
With respect to the EULA, whether or not certain provisions of a EULA are enforceabel or not, depends entirely on the jurisdiction you are in.
To claim that EULA's are not valid in Europe is nonsense.
Courts might object to shrinkwrapped license (as opposed to say, a license where you need to click on "I accept") or might strike down certain provisions (as they have done in Germany) but there are almost no court decisons that rule that a EULA is illegal all by itself.
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Poster: Kees Date: 2003/8/21 11:48:25
We think that his password was simply guessed ...
Kees I have a lot of respect for you,
However in this case I fear you have been misled. having just chatted with Ray Akey, he assures me that his Amiga.org password was a mixture of lower and uppercase and that it wasn't a dictionary word.
So I fear that if he is telling the truth and I have no reason to disbelieve him, someone accessed his password, posted under his name and got him banned.
Which really scares the bejesus out of me, because now I'm not sure how safe my account is on here. :-(
Regards
Mikey C
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There are several points of entry into xoops.
First is the database tables, where the password can be read and deciphered quite easily. This requires someone with database read rights at the least on user tables.
Second is also the tables, where a row can simply be read and copied, and then updated and restored later on.
Thirdly are cookies. :-)
Fourthly are debug output inserted into php scripts.
Fifthly are social engineering methods and guessing.
Sixthly are man in the middle scenarios.
Finally, its not known when the password "guess" attack occurred.
So excuse me while I dispute the likelyhood of a guess. However any administrator worth his salt would go and check the contents of /var/log/httpd and trace back the users that made requests at the same time the article entries were made in the table.
That of course is just for starters.
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B-Bye, don't let the door hit you in the ass. You only come to make false acusations and smear BS against this site anyhow.
Redrumloa, he is right. This site isn't Amiga.org anymore.
I'm here since i have internet, this was a fantastic website, but now it is a ****
Thanks Genesi.
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If someone is being "unprofessional" in this matter, it is not Genesi.
I can only laugh reading this :lol:
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This site isn't Amiga.org anymore.
I'm here since i have internet, this was a fantastic website, but now it is a ****
Saying that isn't going to help change that .. or is it ?
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I agree.
You have a tough job on your hand right now Kees. Good luck! :-)
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Every single company in this waste of time community are amateurs and are actling like a bunch of clowns.
FFS you wankers are finally finishing off the Amiga.
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It's been a very long time since I installed 3.9, but doesn't the EULA appear during instalion time? If memory serves me correctly, at the point of installation there is a long agreement/disclaimer that each user has to agree to before the installation process continues. If my memory isn't playing tricks, I recall something like the same type of agreement that appears on most PC software (the type that virtually nobody bothers to read).
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Seeing as my post got deleted as it was in the middle of the thread I'll just say one more thing.
All this is brought up from ann.lu by bbrv. This is the second time a comment has been made there by bbrv and treated like a news item. Now the official word is that it's still in court.
How can people trust bbrv when they make false statements like that?
{this section was edited by me - I was not asked to edit this, but I was given good reason by a very *kind* pm}
I don't care if I get warned about this being a flame post or anything. I'm kinda giving up on this site anyway. Yet again I'm thinking about not coming back. The members and moderators are just as bad as each other when this crap keeps getting brought up (espesh when bbrv's the spreader).
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Jules
You are correct, I am searching for the EULA right now on the install CD as a plain text file.
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Who what is bbrv ?! and why is he/she/it claiming to have the rights to the name Amiga ?!
"confused" :-?
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They are in the OS-VERSION3.9\LICENSE folder. Both an english and german version.
My favorite section personally is..
"THE AMIGA SOFTWARE IS NOT INTENDED FOR USE IN THE OPERATION
OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION, COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, OR AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL MACHINES IN WHICH CASE THE FAILURE OF THE AMIGA SOFTWARE COULD LEAD TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE. "
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@ Eer0
bbrv: Bill Buck is no. 2 @ Genesi (http://www.genesi.lu) ... Raquel Velasco is no. 1 @ Genesi (http://www.genesi.lu)
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BBRV is Bill Buck and Raquel Velasco ( I think I got that right ) who are two pretty nice people that run Genesi, formerly Thendic who had a contract with Amiga Inc. to port AmigaDE onto WINCE for the SmartBoy product.
Thendic from what I can see was formerly involved in security products, for airports and the like and famously ran the "muscle" at French airports - or something.
You can use Google to look those up to see the current status of all three ;-)
The contract, according to hearsay, included a clause that stipulated that Thendic had the right to request further platforms for consideration.
Thendic somehow turned into Genesi and merged with BPlan to market their Pegasos and MorphOS product ( a competitor to Amiga ).
Then Genesi requested, using that contract clause, a port of AmigaDE onto Pegasos. This was refused and it goes to court in November 2003.
Dave.
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Kees, he's right. Wayne and Redrumloa have become puppets of Genesi. More and more persons comments and news not in favour of Genesi get moderated or removed or turn in another but "Genesi is god, AmigaInc is the devil" thread. It all started with the "Let's talk in privat and send me an email" tactics of Thendic. Bill Buck has read a good management book and focused on strategics persons and websites using the" if you're with us we'll offer you a job or Pegasos" tactic.Sites and persons who we're against them and "in favour of AmigaOS4" we're publically attacked an abused by the followers. I can even remember several comments from MorphOS supporters that Amiga.org was ####!! Because of all the BAFS!!"
People on IRC are talking about Amiga.org and they're not happy with recent "change". Wayne and Redrumloa should realize that you can't force amiga users to become MorphOS minded. The amiga community is mature enough (no childish comments please) to make their own decision based on what they see as the next AmigaOS. Banning Ray won't help either Wayne. Lot's of people say nasty things on Amiga.org. You could have mailed hij privatly to give him a warning that another comment like that will result in a ban, but something says me that you didn't and actually enjoyed banning an AmigaInc employee.
MorphOS is MorphOS, Genesi = Genesi, I can't recognize any Amiga in that apart from being API COMPATIBLE. Like WINE is API compatible to Windows. So if you really like the amiga then you should hand over your site to Kees. Not just add another webmaster.
Kees is the only moderator left on amiga.org which makes this site still enjoyable.
Maybe you should start MorphOS.org, Genesi.org or Pegasos.org, to name a view, Wayne?
--Edit Kees made me clear that there WAS contact with Ray before he was banned, so I stand corrected
-
:-?
Oh.. seems to me they are a bit unproffesional to make such statements that they have on a site like this.
-
@DaveP thanks it seems somewhat clearer now.
-
DaveP,
I would point out that with regards this:
There are several points of entry into xoops.
First is the database tables, where the password can be read and deciphered quite easily. This requires someone with database read rights at the least on user tables.
Xoops stores md5 encrypted versions of the password, so to break this would meaning running automated comparisons until you hit the combination that provides the correct encrypted format.
Mark
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@Mikey_C
Nice, more attacks and BS. i am not alienating anyone except people with specific agendas against this site.
As for me being on the blue side of the fence? Think whatever you want. You keep stating how much you want to leave like a broken record, it's tiresome. If this site is so terrible no one is going to stop you leaving. OTOH i am not going to put up with your constant 'A-Org sucks" tirades.
-
Kees is the only moderator left on amiga.org which makes this site still enjoyable.
I think Kees does a good job here.
@Kees:
You are right, only claiming that Amiga.org is biased, won't change anything. I really believe that you are trying your best to keep this site in the middle.
-
@LordOfCommunity
I find your posting very insulting. For the record I have not edited a single post in this thread and if you think I am biased because I bought an available product or a product which is not available, that is your problem.
-
@Giovanni
I agree :-)
@LordOfCommunity
Well Wayne is allowed an opinion you know :-P IMO stepping down as webmaster was the best thing he could have done - his opinions are as important as the next person's.
@Everyone
Read Kees' first post. Think...
-
Actually I shouldn't reply to your agressive post but I guess I just did.
I don't care if you bought a Pegasos, I don't care if you bought an AmigaONE, that's for every person to decide. The problem with you is that you are against the other side and that's fine with me. But as a moderator you should be aware of your own comments. But this anwer shows me that you are totally not aware of what your comments are like. You're comments can start a flamewar. And that's a bad thing for a moderator. So i'll end this discussion with you because it will lead nowhere but right into the next flamewar.
Kees keep up the good work.
-
Did he really step down? I think not....
-
Hi Dave, thanks for the review which is accurate enough. For the purposes of this discussion, we will just focus on the "amiga" issues. We will only post this one comment about it. We will do it here and not on ANN this time...
We have a license agreement between Thendic and Amiga Inc. for the use of AmigaDE. In the case where the majority shareholders are the same (us = bbrv) the license is transferable, hence the ability of Genesi to claim opportunity. In any case, Amiga Inc. denied our ability to do this and we finally (FINALLY) took them to court. Subsequently, they filed a counterclaim and then proceeded to find excuses to delay the legal procedure which includes "discovery." This phase involves asking Bill McEwen questions under oath that pertain to the matter. His excuses for non-performance here have been spectacular -- medical/heart problems that can only be handled in Montana (twice), the child labor of a friend, concerns for the safety of his family, etc. Last week Amiga's legal counsel agreed to drop the counter claims and validate the license for the Pegasos and AmigaDE. Bill was in Montana again...
Sounds like a win-win situation. We thought.
We simply announced the following:
1. DE would ported to the Pegasos and we were beginning to get things organized to do it.
2. We had purchased and therefore LICENSED Amiga 3.9 for over 500 potential Pegasos buyers. 3.9 works now through emulation. If a Pegasos owner has 3.5 or 3,9 they can legally use it on the Pegasos.
3. We said absolutely NOTHING about 4.0 except that when it is ready we would be please to support it.
We added this to our website.
In closing as we will be busy for the next two/three days, please consider the following:
1. We said there were problems with the Articia. There were.
2. We said that Garry Hare was brought in to be the Chairman and CEO. He was.
3. We said we had a valid license for DE. We do.
When the Pegasos II comes out, we will start to finally be able to produce units in quantity. This enormous waste of time and energy sparring back and forth will be once again be focused on progressively improving the platform and advancing whatever OS you are interested in. This factor alone will improve the general condition for all involved.
We will not be changing our website.
Best regards,
Raquel and Bill :-)
-
This won't really help stopping the flamewar on this thread ... :-D
-
I pose this statement and questions to each and every one of us.
AMIGA was about ideas, innovation, thinking outside the square, participation, listening, experimenting
(including success and failure).
What we have now is 2 groups of people and investors rising from the ashes of the original AMIGA , both investing money, personal commitment, IP and desire a to further those initial ingredients of our beloved platform. Both parties have great call on the community, both deserve in some measure (even that measure will be debated the way things stand) success.
Here is one question.
WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT?
We can all sit back and take sides and fall into (no offence intended to people) a MIDDLE EAST situation.
NEVER ENDING WAR.
My next question. Is that really what we all want?
I bet overwhelmingly the answer is no. We have extremely talented coders sidelined whilst the community slides into oblivion.
We are the end users, if we choose to believe one party or the other and act accordingly we are dead in the water and we will drown even after that!
My next question.
What can we do about it?
If the community can put it's pettiness aside, I believe we can do a lot. We can make BOTH parties aware that we will boycott ALL related products unless they come to an arrangement, We ARE A VERY SMALL COMMUNITY, defiance by the masses should help.
Once again I ask you all to look at the past, understand both players have put up their hands up, both came at different times of the AMIGA history, that has to be understood but both are infected by the same bug "THERE IS SOMETHING HERE ". They have also both put their money where their mouths are ( to what extent we all really do not know) but that is for later.
LET'S ACT TOGETHER.
This proposal is for those of us with open minds and a deep desire to once again advance "IT thinking"
I propose the following:
1. Support for this proposal be gauged on this site (read further). I don't want debates, just say supported or not supported. Perhaps the Webmaster could put a poll up but copy this psot to other areas.
Tell me shut up and I will go away, respond positively and commit to it I will follow through.
2. If there is a positive feedback, I will post this to other sites and seek the same support.
3. If we get an OVERALL agreement, we elect a Community representatives to forward a community response to BOTH parties,.
4. Strategies are agreed that will impress on both parties the desire for collaboration, interaction and out of court resolving of issues.
This community is small but so talented, there are many who want to return, where do you think we are going now? We have very talented Webmasters running sites, we have coders, we have ideaspeople, but we don't have cohesiveness with those who count they are the ones who are splitting us.
I am not a coder, a Webmaster a BETA tester. I am an end user, I have a couple of very high end PCs, I don't have a current "PPC" solution BUT I do want one, or two but nott MAC and not LINUX (but it is an alternative), I want something Amiga or-ish).
Amigaseus (I don't even know how to use the smiley things!)
Can I please indulge the Webmaster to gauge my proposal or initiate a poll depending on response.
SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE DOESN'T IT. WELL I REMEMBER BEING TOLD BY A PC NUT IN ABOUT 1994 THAT DOOM WILL NEVER WORK ON AN AMIGA.
:-)
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The problem with you is that you are against the other side and that's fine with me.
I am not against anyone and i am not entrenched in any side. I do not work for any Amiga related company.
But as a moderator you should be aware of your own comments. But this anwer shows me that you are totally not aware of what your comments are like.
You make insulting, flame provoking comments against my character which i probably should have simply moderated. i didn't. I simply responded my displeasure.
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Hi Bill! (and Raquel)
We have a license agreement between Thendic and Amiga Inc. for the use of AmigaDE. In the case where the majority shareholders are the same (us = bbrv) the license is transferable
That sounds quiet logical. But is the licence transferable to other devices? (smartboy->peg->peg2)
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@bbrv
I note the following from your post:
1) Amiga Inc's counsel have dropped the countersuit against you.
2) Your case against Amiga Inc has not yet been decided.
3) Your announcements on your website are in accordance to your beliefs and in anticipation of a favourable outcome, and NOT as a result of a court decision or agreement betwen the parties.
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MorphOS is MorphOS, Genesi = Genesi, I can't recognize any Amiga in that apart from being API COMPATIBLE. Like WINE is API compatible to Windows.
Oh please, not that old one again! It doesn't even make sense, considering that the "real Amiga" is a TeronCX with a dongle! Ever heard the phrase, "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?"
Wayne and Redrumloa have become puppets of Genesi.
That's right, and so are the Stonemasons and the US and European governments. And the IT sector. And the market controllers. In fact, everyone's against you. The fact that your niche is shrinking has nothing to do with its fanaticism, it's because everyone's out to get you. Because you are the righteous.
:roll:
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bbrv: and what is this telling us? , u had right answers for 3..but what about the million others?
like , WE aint a competetior to amiga etc..bla bla ..
also why do mos users still need os3.x ? ,
and where is this contract? and aint that like saying , hey i am making windows XL but u will need XP cd .., sounds DUBIOUS!
also , articia problems was NOT stated in the beginng, it was announced way after XE 800 (a1) was released , it was we (THE USERS) who said it was buggy , also why dont u post on ann.lu ? , this is amIGA.org ,u always used ann.lu till now , why did u stop ? ...
sure i know amiga.org has turned but this looks like what i said 1 year ago...go read old posts where i said that there should have been made a pegasos.org or something.
why do u think amiga survived or stayed warm for all theese years with disasters ? , it was because we loved it and used it , you are dooing exactly what pc and mac tried to do with us so what makes you better?..
anyway that wasnt a flame , but i NEED some real answers here as i am about to blow...
cheers
-
-Edit- Deleted upon posters request.
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@bbrv
If that is all correct then why do you noty post it on your website then post it as official NEWS?
The way you are doing this is not business-like at all. You are helping to spread the paranoia and fud about certain companies including yourself.
If you conduct yourself as a proper business with official news and announcements maybe people would believe you more instead of just jumpoing on another flame wagon.
With this thread I have lost respect for at least two people here at A.o (I'm not naming them as I'll be accused of personal attacks), but I have new respect for one person. Not good odds that is it? :roll:
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Well, sometimes the truth hurts.
Somehow I think this will be my last post here.
The site is great, but with so much bias which is showing pretty much everywhere, it just doesn't have much to do with what it used to.
It's kinda scary to think about the Kernel Wars times as "the good ol' days", but they were GREAT compared to today.
Well, in any case I guess this is actually the second round of the aforementioned wars.
I can't blame people for taking sides. I've chosen my side from technical preferences as well as personal. However I don't feel like there's much reason for me to keep coming back here. Even ANN is more neutral than here.
"Thanks", Genesi.
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jose: i totally agree with you!!!
I will also leave this place, but not until i gets some answers..
vince: cheating and decive is the way to go , atleast thats what we are led to belive theese days , first say 1 thing...then do it totally opposite and walk around it for years and years and just light up the fire..
ohwell i guess there will be a "BBRV"'s account was hacked , spam next up....
or maybe not?
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trezzer: well this is mos land so u should stick around... its your choice...
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@lempkee
Please stop trolling.
-
Small community, untrustworthy companies, lies, scams, more lies, all Amiga/related companies MUST be ignored all together and just buy the product if you like it.
So the world may know these companies suck.
-
My status reached Cult Member during this, ironic isnt it? :roflmao:
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@ACEFNQ
Somehow I doubt there will be any possibilities of agreeing
on a joint statement from this community to the companies
involved.
But I agree it's a nice idea. By all means, post your ideas
(i.e. as a proper thread and not deep down among the
comments where noone can see it) over a few different
sites and hear what people say. Miracles do happen from
time to time. :-)
.
SlimJim
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@Mark
Correct, although it doesn't stop a person with DB write access from overwriting the row entirely with their own password.
@bbrv
Thanks for the clarification, the situation is as I thought it was.
@thread
Chill. Its not worth it.
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Mikey_C wrote:
"So I fear that if he is telling the truth and I have no reason to disbelieve him, someone accessed his password, posted under his name and got him banned.
Which really scares the bejesus out of me, because now I'm not sure how safe my account is on here. "
I don't believe for a minute that the site was hacked and the password accessed. Please carry through with your threat to leave.
RLFrost
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@Paul_Gadd
You said that too strong, you know it. Reword it without the insults and it won't be edited.
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@ LordOfCommunity,
Kees, he's right. Wayne and Redrumloa have become puppets of Genesi.
Everyone, including you, has the right to their own opinions. I respect that. I also respectfully disagree with your statement above. Wayne has effectively stepped down from his position on this site. He's not a puppet, he simply works for Genesi.
... realize that you can't force amiga users to become MorphOS minded
We're not trying to force anyone to become anything.
Banning Ray won't help either Wayne.
As far as I know, Ray was banned because he violated the acceptable use policy of this site. Whomever banned him did not enjoy it. The action was simply a matter of policy. If I am wrong, then I stand corrected in advance, and I apologize in advance.
So if you really like the amiga then you should hand over your site to Kees. Not just add another webmaster.
The site is already handed over to Kees and the team of moderators.
Kees is the only moderator left on amiga.org which makes this site still enjoyable.
I don't work for Genesi. I don't work for Amiga. I am an I.S. consultant currently working in the IT department of an insurance and financial services company (Northwestern Mutual to be exact). If that is not neutral, then I don't know what is. I have never moderated any posts in any forums, mainly because I don't have the time to take part in the sparring back and forth due to taking care of my 3 month old daughter. Again, you are entitled to your opinion. I am a moderator here. Please realize that what you type can be hurtful to others.
@all,
Let's all get along please! :-)
I will step back into the shadows now as I refuse to take part in any more of the sparring than this post already does. Thank you for your time.
-
I gotta point out, that I was the messanger that was shot over how angry some people are about Amiga.org.
-
What? Who call us Mormons?
-
I gotta point out, that I was the messanger that was shot over how angry some people are about Amiga.org.
Well it was only rocksalt that was shot at you, and we cleaned the wounds :lol:
-
@rlfrost
Mikey_C wrote:
"So I fear that if he is telling the truth and I have no reason to disbelieve him, someone accessed his password, posted under his name and got him banned.
Which really scares the bejesus out of me, because now I'm not sure how safe my account is on here. "
I don't believe for a minute that the site was hacked and the password accessed. Please carry through with your threat to leave.
Indeed. Considering where this claim comes from and who is making it, I think it can be discounted out of hand.
Some people will stoop to any level of dishonesty and lies to promote their cause, and Mikey_C is one of them, as a quick browse through his posts on that other website will reveal.
Anyway, I thought he and his friends had already "left" Amiga.org when they accused it of being owned by Genesi (which is an accusation Mikey_C continues to make).
:-(
-
Thats OK I needed something to put on my chips
:-)
( fries )
-
My god... I'm away on vacation, and find a bunch of well known amigaworld.net trolls howling here when return... I don't know what has happened, I was not here, but from the remains it seems you are here to destroy a once beautiful amiga site completely.
In that you resemble to your "sacred" mother company...
As to the credibility of Bill McEwen posts is NONE. Threatening me with some EULA is hilarious. And not at last, it's pretty hard to misinterpret it: FUD just as the illegal sources accuse concerning MorphOS.
Ain't it's enough of the "MorphOS is illegal" this way or the other suggestions?
Congratulations to the Community and our mighty leadership. Some ppl are unbelieveable...
Kees will have a hard time. In his place I'd immediately resign and leave you alone.
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@Warface
Kees will have a hard time if people continue to bring further old arguments into the sphere of discussion just for the hell of it, like you just did.
-
@bbrv
If Garry Hare is Chairman and CEO why is/was he not the one to appear in court defending Amiga Inc, after all if he was Chariman/CEO the buck (no pun intended!) would stop with him!
Rassilon
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Kees will have a hard time if people continue to bring further old arguments into the sphere of discussion just for the hell of it, like you just did.
I sadly agree. Mine is not an inch better. Yet this thread (as I see it from the remains, and I repeat, I haven't seen everything) is stuffed with "Thanks Genesi" for all the hardships and wrong we have. We leave now. We'd stay, but we won't. You are all ugly here.
All that after six days of relaxation and life in some peaceful place. With ordinary, nice ppl all around. I think I'd go back instantly if I could.
-
Sounds like how I feel after I take a break from the "scene" :-)
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@Warface:
I don't see that Bill threatened end users at all. But I would say it is a bit odd to see Genesi claim you can run AmigaOS 3.9 and Mac OS 9x/OSX on the Pegasos when all three of these would mean breach of EULA. You as a person aren't really doing anything bad, but Genesi is deliberately tricking people into breaking the EULA. And the legality of breaking that is NOT up to Genesi or you as an end user to decide.
Again, I don't feel I'm doing anything wrong running 3.5 on an Access, but I would say it is something else entirely if it came bundled with it. Licensing isn't done to end users, it's done to OEMs, mkay?
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@Warface
Take it easy.
@Others
This is one of those issues that wasn't handled professionally by either of the companies. Buck giving BS at ann.lu, followed by far the lamest executive update.
Buck:
Pyrenees-dog-owner to ex-Pyrenees-dog owner: Please have another vacation of forums now, or at least check the background so it's 100% and not a hunch.
McEwen:
If that is the best you can come up with, you better shut up aswell. You can't imagine the amount of laughter towards your executive update, not only from Amigascene but from Win/Linuxscene aswell.
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Bill Hogget
When I met you last year at WOASE you were only too happy to talk to me. Supporting Amiga inc, etc, Now I find you making personal and unwarrented attacks on me.
for the record, I publicly object to your personal attack calling me dishonest and a liar etc.
You sir have sunk to a new low, I could reply in Kind, but out of respect for Kees I will abstain.
Mikey C
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I just wish he'd quit signing off with "God Bless" - it makes him sound like my Granny... :-P
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Poster: rlfrost Date: 2003/8/21 14:59:40
I don't believe for a minute that the site was hacked and the password accessed. Please carry through with your threat to leave.
RLFrost
Gee you signed up to Amiga.org under an alias (make your first post in this alias) Just to troll me?
Thanks I didn't think I was worth all that effort
Think I'll stay now and ruin your day.
Mikey_C
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Well for once, I didn't see much to fault with the Executive
update (but it's a sad state of affairs that it has to be posted
in the first place). It simply stated that the court decision is
still in flux. If that is AInc:s view of the story, it should be
heard.
I feel the EULA business was perhaps a little unnessecary
to include, but to me it more feels like this "reminder" is
more aimed at Genesis possible new bundle rather than
already present offerings.
.
SlimJim
-
The interesting thing about the flame wars between Amiga and Genesi supporters is that both sides have optimism in buckets.
What is it about either solution that will make them into profitable markets? What is the 'killer' factor that will grow the user-base?
Believe me (you may well not of course), I would like to see the 'amiga' community grow again, but what is going to fuel the growth to significant numbers?
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@Mikey_C
I talk to anyone, but that doesn't stop me calling a spade a spade when I see one.
You sir have sunk to a new low, I could reply in Kind, but out of respect for Kees I will abstain.
Whatever. I don't make blatantly false accusations - which you continue to do on AmigaWorld.net - and I don't tell lies in support of one faction or another. If that offends you, tough. This place was better for your absence, and your return has lowered the tone once more.
Why don't you go back to your natural home with all the other sycophants?
-
Trouble is ,
when one side does eventually win the court case ,
will this community believe or accept it?
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@DaveP
so what do you suggest? we just forget all that we've heard about Amiga.inc and give them the credit we would any other company???... that sounds a bit insane comming from you of all people who professes to be soundly grounded in 'logic' and 'moderation' and whatnot... how can you expect people to ignore and stop referring to past events?... thats part of life... you're judged by your record...
if the soda tastes like poisen its probably poisen and if it continues to taste like it... stop drinking it, stop buying it, and warn others about it!
thats a good metaphor for this current situation.
@All
the biggest fault with this update is 'why now?" if Bill could have posted updates and is indeed in contact with all etc etc etc... why hasnt he been making updates regulerly? why havent we heard more about others things?... I dont trust it one bit....
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Poster: bhoggett Date: 2003/8/21 16:26:15
I talk to anyone, but that doesn't stop me calling a spade a spade when I see one.
Indeed even if by doing so you come across as a pathological hypocrite?
As to your other points, I have decided that my post count on here is too low, so I guess i'll stay and see it rise a bit more.
BTW, Would you be so kind as to produce some of my "Blatantly false accusations" that I make at Amigaworld.net?
A few links perhaps?
Mikey C
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Tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk...
That's all I'm gonna say on this site...
:-(
-
Oh, BTW, I lost ALL interest in MorphOS and Pegasos as of today. True story.
-
If your going to leave then leave instead of going on with yourself and attacking this site.
-
the sad thing that NOBODY seems to realise on the red side is that by getting AmigaDE on Pegasos/MOS it makes the Peg/MOS actually a gainful product for Amiga.inc, they would make money from AmigaDE sales to Peg/MOS users, I dont see where the anger against it comes from. It seems childish and backward minded.
-
To everyone posting complaints about this site, and complaints about
those complaints being deleted from this thread:
Why don't you start a new thread on that topic? Do that, post your
criticisms without any swearwords or personal attacks, and I'm sure
they won't be deleted. This thread is about something else, get it?
Two observations about bbrv's post:
1) Note that he says that AInc's legal counsel "decided to [...]
validate the license for the Pegasos and AmigaDE."
About the Garry Hare statement: Note that bbrv writes that "Garry Hare
was brought in *to be* the Chairman and CEO. He was."
(my emphasis on "to be")
The only reasonable interpretation of this statement is that whoever
is in the power to do this, intended to put Garry Hare as Chairman and
CEO, but that this never happened. Why not? I don't know. Maybe
because Garry Hare did not want to defend AInc in court?
-
Where has all the fun gone? :-?
-
Poster: tekmage Date: 2003/8/20 21:23:42
I to am concerned that Bill would go with an EULA threat. It's obvious that this situation is causing much stress on Amiga Inc and Bill personally. When I first read through the comments I did not understand to what "Bucket" was responding to. Though the comments did shed much more light on the statement from Bill McEwen.
@Kees
Thank you for trying to keep amiga.org honorable in all this but I think your failing
@ Wayne
I think what you did was an abuse of your power and in appropriate and make's Kees job much harder
@ Downix
Please think before you post. If your typing something which you know you will retract just don't post it.
@ Ray A Key
Snice your now perma baned from Amiga.org your welcome to send any appropriate, non flame, non trolling comments to me and I'll paste them in to any thread you wish.
@ Amigians
Give it time friends, time will tell which is the best solution. Keep the faith!
Bill "tekmage" Borsari
DAMN!!!
Can I join your fan club, plz? :-)
I knew at least someone would keep the Amiga faith going! Rock on, dude! :-D
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Poster: Kees Date: 2003/8/21 5:02:43
I have never praised Bill Buck !
AMEN!!
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Amiga.org? this site is the most biased 100% pro Genesi site ever to grace the Amiga scene, with sites like that it shows what sort of measures some wacky people will go to protect/praise a company to the death.
So if your going to be staying on this site then do it but don`t make yourself sound even worse by going to a worse site unless of course you get a stiffy for Genesi, which you clearly do so this place will suit you and the rest of the zombies.
Mikey C
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@ Mikey_C
It's just not worth it.
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the sad thing that NOBODY seems to realise on the red side is that by getting AmigaDE on Pegasos/MOS it makes the Peg/MOS actually a gainful product for Amiga.inc, they would make money from AmigaDE sales to Peg/MOS users, I dont see where the anger against it comes from. It seems childish and backward minded.
Well, for once I agree with you, despite your unfortunate
behaviour of labelling people this or that. A wider user base
for AmigaDE is always good and Pegasos/MOS users seem
a natural group to include, being such a close branch of the
native AmigaOS community. I can only assume this "deal"
has some inbuilt financial drawbacks for AmigaInc, or that
is takes resources they cannot spare. In short, there must
be some drawback we don't know about.
I've still not understood exactly what the deal is about -
McEwen says "We have not agreed on porting AmigaDE to
the Pegasos", this suggests the deal is that it's
AmigaInc that is to do the work of porting. How come
bbrv claimed (apparently) that "porting was already under
way"? Or did I misunderstand that?
.
SlimJim
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Poster: Mikey_C Date: 2003/8/21 6:15:39
having just chatted with Ray Akey, he assures me that his Amiga.org password was a mixture of lower and uppercase and that it wasn't a dictionary word....
So, GOD wasn't the password...
*fingersnap*
damn... :-D
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@Merko
Two observations about bbrv's post:
1) Note that he says that AInc's legal counsel "decided to [...]
validate the license for the Pegasos and AmigaDE."
No, no, you misread it. AInc's legal counsel decided to drop the counterclaim. They have not decided to validate the license. There's a big difference.
About the Garry Hare fiasco: I think neither side has revealed all they know about that episode. Certainly I don't think the story from Genesi is complete, and Amiga Inc have pussyfooted and avoided giving a proper answer to a ridiculous extent..
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Bobsonsirjonny
No you are right it isn't worth it.
I would have been fine, had it not been for the fact that first of all Ray Akey gets banned for something Trivial. Bill Buck posts here with impunity, despite his "morons" comment
Then I get all the personal attacks against me. I came here to partake in discussion. However, it has now turned into a personal attack against me.
You watch, second, I over step the line against someone, I'll get banned. Yet when I'm being victimised, it's open season.
Mikey C
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I didn't misread, but I misquoted, bbrv wrote "agreed to" rather than
"decided to".
But yes: bbrv DID SAY that the counsel agreed to validate the license!
Whether this happened or not, I cannot say, but this is what bbrv
writes above. Read again!
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@Merko
But yes: bbrv DID SAY that the counsel agreed to validate the license!
You are correct and so you have my apology.
I must declare my doubts about that last bit of bbrv's claim though. If the counsel had agreed to the licensing, then there would be no need for the case to go further, yet the records show that the case is still open and scheduled to be heard in court.
It sounds like a case of one side giving an inch and the other claiming a mile.
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@Mikey_C
Don't play victim, you know why you are here. How long have you been banging the 'AO sucks" drum? get a new tune already. Stop acting like a troll and you would be most welcome here.
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Amiga.org? this site is the most biased 100% pro Genesi site ever to grace the Amiga scene, with sites like that it shows what sort of measures some wacky people will go to protect/praise a company to the death.
Laughable hypocracy.
Look, the Amiga community has changed, not AO. People want to use MorphOS, want to use emulators and amiga-like solutions. They've waited too long on the On Schedule and Rockin' crowd and they're sick of it. They don't want to pay enormous fees for hardware, they don't want to wait ages for an OS. They've moved on. But they still want to investigate other solutions. Get over it already.
So if your going to be staying on this site then do it but don`t make yourself sound even worse by going to a worse site unless of course you get a stiffy for Genesi, which you clearly do so this place will suit you and the rest of the zombies.
More silly hypocracy.
For those who can't change and get angry because they we won't bow down and worship their company of choice, just bugger off. We'll be better off without you all, honestly. This goes for all sides. When will such people get over the fact that others have their own choices to make, and when they choose a company that's actually producing hardware and software, aren't some kind of puppets just because they don't choose AInc?
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@KennyR
When will such people get over the fact that others have their own choices to make, and when they choose a company that's actually producing hardware and software, aren't some kind of puppets just because they don't choose AInc?
When?
I suppose just as soon as some other "such
people" get over the fact that people aren't "some
kind of puppets" just because they do choose to
go with the AmigaInc line...?
(not referring to you personally).
.
SlimJim
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I understand this view, Slimjim, and so my rant was aimed at all trolls, including those that constantly rant at and belittle A1/OS4 supporters for the simple crime of making a choice. It cuts all ways. There is a world of a difference between a site not reporting some side's news because there is so little to report, and not reporting them because it is biased. I know which one of these two AO is, and I know what one AW is.
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my below sarcastic opinonated rant is here to show the mind of a true red zealot... :)
no KennyR your wrong!, we're supposed to ignore all we've seen and follow Amiga.inc down the gutter as far as the swill stream goes and if we dont like it and we decide to go the alternate route we're a bunch of 'blind zombies' and emulator people are 'killing amiga' and amithlon was 'against amiga values' ... the name 'Amiga' matters above all else aswell as a little checkerball... if we dont see that we're idiots! the name matters above all else! the name!...its not hipocritical to expect everyone to follow amiga.inc !!!! ... your bieng a troll! stop spreading FUD... go buy coupons!!!... blah blah blah... mass exodus from this site!!!.... its to 'moderate' for any TRUE amigans leanings! moderate = pro-genesi ... genesi=baddies, fud spreaders, anti-amiga!
blah blah blah...
EDIT: On Schedule and Rockin!!!! :-D :-D :-D
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kennyr:and you state that you are an amiga'n ?
thats hypocracy , if it was about cheap #### every one would have been on amithlon ages ago,
so stuff that solution.
everyone knew amithlon was a dead end from the start , with pegasos it aint that obvious but a hunch woul be genesi's first opening comments "WE DONT WANT THE AMIGA bla bla bla" or did you forget that bit? , you are really bullshitting yerself when posting such posts dood.
anyway to all who thinks AmigaDE would be good on pegasos bla bla , well ya missed one crucial bit in this and thats the most important one.
AMIGA INC made it , they are entitled to do what they want , no one can copy they're idea or sell it without the creators approval , sure they signed something for smartbox , we dont know what they signed did we? , and for all i know DE on pegasos wouldnt grace the moneybin at AmigaInc anyway... no matter what.
turn back into history of genesi to see that.
-
:-)
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aolmurder: sorry ,i didnt see yer post until now.
ok i will try to strain myself,but it aint easy.
though i aint trying do be evil... nor too personal.
cheers
pps: slimjim , yes but heh parting has never done amiga good, also imho i would have been more calm if bbrv wouldnt spam us like he do , pointing out facts with his posts wouldnt hurt anyone, but as every post come i get more and more "IS THIS A LIE?" , same goes for ainc posts but heh they tend to come from time to time only...not everyday/week.
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dan:smask i wanna kiss you now :) rofl
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kennyr:and you state that you are an amiga'n ?
Yes I do, but not your kind of Amigan, it seems.
thats hypocracy , if it was about cheap #### every one would have been on amithlon ages ago
And? With all the users, community, developers and stuff it did attract and would have attracted, how would it have been bad? Sure, I wouldn't have wanted to use a PC, but who the hell am I to dictate what other users want? I did actually critisice Amithlon strongly in the past, but I regret it now. I really thought that it was a danger to getting the Amiga back on its feet. But it turned out that my efforts were being counter-productive and only making me a troll. Amithlon was never a danger; it was only a niche, just like MOS, just like OS4, just like AROS. A choice among many. Much of the software written on Amithlon could have been used on OS4 and MOS. Some of it still is.
everyone knew amithlon was a dead end from the start , with pegasos it aint that obvious but a hunch woul be genesi's first opening comments "WE DONT WANT THE AMIGA bla bla bla" or did you forget that bit? , you are really bullshitting yerself when posting such posts dood.
Maybe they don't want the dirt that spattered on the Amiga name after chronic inaction, or the scum that's stuck to it while skimming through the gutters for all those years. But to be serious, Genesi are just a business. They do business. Taking personal offence at certain loudmouths in it/supporting it isn't really going to help. Anyway, I certainly don't support Genesi or bbrv in this recent statement. I only came into this thread to defend AO and its moderators against people blaming it and them for their own failings, and to vent some at the "you're not with us, you suck!!1111" crowd.
anyway to all who thinks AmigaDE would be good on pegasos bla bla , well ya missed one crucial bit in this and thats the most important one.
AMIGA INC made it , they are entitled to do what they want , no one can copy they're idea or sell it without the creators approval , sure they signed something for smartbox , we dont know what they signed did we? , and for all i know DE on pegasos wouldnt grace the moneybin at AmigaInc anyway... no matter what.
You seem to be mistaking me for someone else, lempkee. I've never made any statement about the DE on Pegasos or any of that silly nonsense brewing now, and I'm probably not going to.
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Poster: lempkee Date: 2003/8/21 12:56:34
AMIGA INC made it , they are entitled to do what they want , no one can copy they're idea or sell it without the creators approval , sure they signed something for smartbox , we dont know what they signed did we? , and for all i know DE on pegasos wouldnt grace the moneybin at AmigaInc anyway... no matter what.
Amiga Inc may have added some content to DEad, but Tao owns the core. The contract calls for certain Thendic/Genesi devices, as well as future devices, to have Amiga Inc port DEad and being paid for their time in porting it plus royalities fees per unit.
If Amiga Inc was a real company, they would be gladly holding their hands out for royalities from Genesi. Since Amiga Inc is a farce, they can do without additional revenue streams, right?
Dammy
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kennyr: i aint amidelf .. i belived u knew that.
anyway its a shame that u have turned yourself into this , but anyway its typical.
a last note would be about the.... AMIGA name etc, well heh do u know what bbrv is on about then? , thats what they want atm.. the AMIGA name, the prods,everything.
so you are wrong again really (read the last bbrv post + executive)..
anyway...PLEASe dont mix me with amidelf.
cheers
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@KennyR
And? With all the users, community, developers and stuff it did attract and would have attracted, how would it have been bad? Sure, I wouldn't have wanted to use a PC, but who the hell am I to dictate what other users want? I did actually critisice Amithlon strongly in the past, but I regret it now. I really thought that it was a danger to getting the Amiga back on its feet. But it turned out that my efforts were being counter-productive and only making me a troll. Amithlon was never a danger; it was only a niche, just like MOS, just like OS4, just like AROS. A choice among many. Much of the software written on Amithlon could have been used on OS4 and MOS. Some of it still is.
Having criticised you heavily for your stance in the past, I now bow deeply in respect.
I wish more people would wake up to the reality of the Amiga situation.
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dammy: yes/no ...
the whole thing is , sure DE should be on every plattform around, thats what it was intended for (tao).
but as we know that never happened , but as soon
as they have DE (IF) on pegasos , genesi will yet again USE the amiga name and that aint always good, for many reasons.
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bbhogget: so basically you mean MOS,AROS,AMITHLON etc are all 100% WORTHY as a AOS successor? , or just living on the brand? or just making it look worser/better ? .
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Sorry lempkee, it must have been one of those cases where the eye catches a word and it goes into the mind. I've corrected my mistake, apologies to both of you. It's quite funny that the words before it were "you must be mistaking me with someone else..." ;-)
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As people have brought up Amithlon, Amithlon and WinUAE are without a doubt the best products ever to grace the Amiga scene in years and deserve respect instead of ppl bitching and moaning about products what clearly got loads and loads of people back to the platform.
So what if someone wants to emulator an Amiga, at the end of the day the revenue rocketed with those types of products but as usual good things for the Amiga get killed thanks to cowboy companies.
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@KennyR
If the community has changed then why do they still frequent a site for AMIGA users? As an Amiga user I often get annoyed with all MOS talk on this site. Not that it can't be mentioned, but it has become overwhelming. It is great that some people here have a new computer or even new jobs. But why do we have to keep hearing about them? This is (or was) an Amiga site, is it too much to expect it to be Amiga oriented? It doesn't have to blindly follow Amiga inc, but it surely should have very little to do with MOS or any other OS for that matter.
So until the powers that be here change the name and focus of this site, maybe people who no longer are interested in the Amiga should "bugger off"!
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@lempkee
Stop putting words into my mouth.
What I mean is that the "Amiga community" has already split into various groups according to their own preference. The community, and the market, can only survive if we are all able to embrace those who have made a different choice and work together to move things forward.
Those people who say "my way or no way" - no matter which camp they support - have their heads stuck up their backsides.
As for 100% worthy successor? Do you think I care? To me, "Amiga" is just a label, a five letter word starting with A. Nothing more. The people that made the "Amiga" something like a cult ten years ago are long gone. The current crop have nothing in common with them.
People need to stop looking back and start looking forward, preferably after they have removed the blinkers they've been wearing for years.
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Walkernyranger wrote:
If the community has changed then why do they still frequent a site for AMIGA users? As an Amiga user I often get annoyed with all MOS talk on this site. Not that it can't be mentioned, but it has become overwhelming.
I can understand your irritation, having felt it myself. But what you're seeing now is a flowering of MOS when OS4 is still a bud. Next year it could all be different, with OS4 projects hogging the news. Last year it was Amithlon. It's just the way things go. We all try to keep to people who share our interests, but sometimes we go too far and the only interest left is criticizing all perceived threats to one's own solution, and getting extremely defensive and bitter against any attacks, no matter how mild. My advice is to do what I did - just let it go. Let people do what they want. If their interests are not your interests, well fine, move on to another article. There's no need to take it personally, since everyone has a bad day when that happens.
It is great that some people here have a new computer or even new jobs. But why do we have to keep hearing about them? This is (or was) an Amiga site, is it too much to expect it to be Amiga oriented?
The problem is that "Amiga" is no longer a solid term. We have people putting the label on PPC motherboards, users calling emulators Amigas, and users calling Pegasos Amigas. Only one is official, of course; but since when did officiality tell people what to call things and what not? We live in a free society. And there are those who won't accept anything but the original Commodore Amiga machines. Isn't diversity a good thing?
Wayne quite clearly stated that AO would support all of these alteratives, and would allow each to be hosted. And I believe he was right in doing so.
So until the powers that be here change the name and focus of this site, maybe people who no longer are interested in the Amiga should "bugger off"!
There isn't a person who comes to this site who isn't interested in the Amiga, but their reasons are not always the same. It's a free site, why would you want to limit everyone to seeing things your way? There are still lots of articles for Amiga/AOS4 users. Not much news; this is a pity, but we they can't make it up, if its not there then it's not there. I don't believe there is any focus. Others may feel differently.
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bhogget: hmm i never inteded to put them into yer mouth , it was a question, though it wasnt the best i guess..
anyway i will add that "yes i agree with your opinion at some terms , but for me Amiga is Amigaos and i live more or less in retro land,though i do look very forward to os4 for amigaone)
kennyr: yes now i feel with you , the term amiga is too easy to call on everything theese days (mos,aros,amithlon,uae etc).
And atm genesi is going for the name and the logos etc... , so it wont calm down for a long time yet... i guess..
cheers
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this is 'Amiga.org' not 'AmigaName.org" .... Amiga covers the whole genre of 'Amiga' ... MOS/UAE/Amithlon/etc 'Amiga Compatible OS's" sure they have their dedicated sites but this place is kind of the 'mixing ground' for it all... if you think this site should censor out news/etc of everything else then maybe you need to question yourself... this site has been and probably always will be... the 'middle ground' of the community.... you want to close your eyes/ears and live in fantasyland? go to a pro-Amiga.inc only site... and stop bugging other people about how we're all wrong for not likeing their solutions or choosing another one. this is 2003 a classic Amiga isnt cutting it, alot of people emulate and some even look for other solutions the ones that exist i.e MorphOS/Pegasos
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Poster: WalkernyRanger Date: 2003/8/21 20:51:59
@KennyR
If the community has changed then why do they still frequent a site for AMIGA users? As an Amiga user I often get annoyed with all MOS talk on this site. Not that it can't be mentioned, but it has become overwhelming. It is great that some people here have a new computer or even new jobs. But why do we have to keep hearing about them? This is (or was) an Amiga site, is it too much to expect it to be Amiga oriented? It doesn't have to blindly follow Amiga inc, but it surely should have very little to do with MOS or any other OS for that matter.
I have quite a simple answer. Amiga.org is a news-site, and there no NEWS about Amiga, except for some bad ones which no-one would like to see anyway.
Look man, it's not Genesi's fault things are rolling, news are appearing daily, software is ported etc.
Ask Amiga Inc. to do something instead of bitching here for the lack of Amiga-related news.
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Classic Amiga Rocks!!!!!!!!! :flame:
Everything else is crap.
:flame:
Now which color does my camp have?:roflmao:
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Please view the following sites
www.microsoft.org
www.ibm.org
www.apple.org
www.hp.org
www.bmw.org
www.homedepot.org
Ya...thats right..they either don't work...or get routed to the actual company that owns the name.
Its to bad that this website doesn't respond in the two ways noted above.
The responsibily of this website should NOT BE to both sides of the amiga/Genisi.....but just to Amiga. Like it or not....they still hold the name, and trying to use this website for other companies to try and gain ground....is morally wrong if anyone actually cared. This I mean as far as advertising/not opinions.
k
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[What happened to the Quote button? Hmm, anyway]
LordOfCommunity wrote:
"MorphOS is MorphOS, Genesi = Genesi, I can't recognize any Amiga in that apart from being API COMPATIBLE. Like WINE is API compatible to Windows. So if you really like the amiga then you should hand over your site to Kees. Not just add another webmaster."
Hmm, perhaps we should have a different website/forum for every single company, Amiga-related or not, and heaven forbid anyone who doesn't post to the right one ;)
WalkernyRanger wrote:
"If the community has changed then why do they still frequent a site for AMIGA users?"
Perhaps for one, because they run Amiga software? Not to mention having an interest in Amiga affairs.
If more than one AmigaOS successor appears and remains in use (be it OS4 and MorphOS, or something else), and they diverge (ie, no future compatibility between them), then I'm sure that new forums will appear, and the userbases will become more diverged as the systems have less in common - but at the moment, there are things in common.
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K wrote:
"Ya...thats right..they either don't work...or get routed to the actual company that owns the name. "
www.microsoft.org and www.homedepot.org don't exist. www.apple.org does, but doesn't go to a webpage.
As for the rest, well that's probably because the actual company that owns the name also owns the domain names in question, and not because some fan site has decided to dedicate their domain to some company because they felt they had a "responsibility" to them.
If you believe that Amiga Inc should have rights to the domain www.amiga.org, then this is a separate issue (and imo, they should have no such rights since this is a .org site, and there is no trademark infringement going on). What would your view be if this was eg, www.amiganews.org - or possibly a name that didn't say Amiga at all, but this was still a site that had historically still been dedicated to the Amiga?
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K: Looks like some old troll has found a new name to himself.
Moderators.. Would it not be time to close this thread.. afterall
there is allmost 200 messages and quite plenty of them are waste of
net net bandwidth..
if there is a need to ths discussion then perhaos a new thread???
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@K
what your saying would be alright if Amiga.inc where an actual company that had been around since this site has been around...but this site was around long before them. They may own the trademark but this wasnt a squatter job, this site they have no claim on... this site has been a community portal for ages...and with any luck it will be for ages...
If the governments/etc let flash in the pan companies have the right to
1:find successful website
2:register name and spend 500 getting .inc with it
3:go take website
things would not be good... wich is why this site still stands...this site is for the 'AMIGA COMMUNITY" not for 'Amiga.inc' ... get that through your head... its been here before Amiga.inc it'll be here after...and if Amiga.inc wanted this site they could just buy it...after all as the Amiga.inc supports say 'things are on schedule and rockin' ...what was the going rate for this site? 20K?...thats a drop in the bucket to a 'rockin' company...
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@K
Also, as a counter example, http://www.mac.org/ doesn't redirect to any official Apple site.
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Everyone - just stop it. Please. Its gonna be going round in circles before long.
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The whole idea of the .org root domain is that it's for organisations,
not companies, right?
IMO it's sad that companies are allowed to take over, and that they
sometimes threaten fans who are becoming too independent with
scare-stories to make them believe that you can't even talk about
product X without breaking some "copyright" about the X trademark.
Mind you, I'm not really talking about Amiga here, but in general.
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Jules wrote:
"It's been a very long time since I installed 3.9, but doesn't the EULA appear during instalion time?"
I'm not sure - I ended up doing a manual install, so I never clicked "Okay" to anything, let alone agreed;)
(Though no doubt, the EULA-police will insist I agreed simply by reading it in the instruction manual).
@HyperionMP
Well yes, EULAs might not be illegal (I don't think anyone's suggesting Amiga Inc be taken to court because they had a EULA;), but the question is, have they been upheld anywhere? (And if so, in what form). Otherwise, it's all a matter of speculation.
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@JoannaK
I don't troll...I just don't post because...seriously...as you can tell...it never gets anywhere.
@meerschaum(wayne)
'AMIGA COMMUNITY" not for 'Amiga.inc' ... get that through your head... "
whatever you say....If thats how you want to justify your site...fine. Maybe you should post "borrowed" MP3 on this site as well...
What this site is doing is taking a registered trademark 'Amiga' in their DNS. Using the 'I was hear first' calling it an "Amiga Community" then advertising an OS/hardware that isn't even Amiga Approved....but in Direct competion with Amiga. Ya...and I need to get it through my head?
All one has to do is pretend that they are the CEO of Amiga for one day and ask yourself if this website is helping the "Amiga" and the "Amiga Community". Oh let me guess the next phrase you are going to tell me is that this website is helping the current situation?! LOL
Sorry for those that think that I may be trolling...but everyone has a breaking point.
k
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Yeah right, Amiga Inc only site more like.
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K: Ok. I'm sorry for my hasty words.
It just happens time to time that when someonejumps in with brand new
account it's later found out to be someone allready well known person.
I was wat too hasty to jump on this.
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LOL
Edit by Kees - trolling
k.
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@K
Your attempt to divide will only cause grief, and shrink an already diminished community. Do you want half, if not more, of the community gone? All for what?
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If you call this a community... What good is it doing right now? Can you say that the current situation is good?
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If Amiga Inc was a real company, they would be gladly holding their hands out for royalities from Genesi.
I recall, Apple is a ‘real business’. Note that Apple revoked/not renewed most of MacOS licenses (for use in MacOS PC clones). A licensor has right to control their property(contractual obligations not withstanding).
I wonder if "contract" between Amiga Inc and Genesi is a “voidable contract”…
Since Amiga Inc is a farce, they can do without additional revenue streams, right?
It's Amiga Inc’s call for assessing their own financial position.
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Oh please, not that old one again! It doesn't even make sense, considering that the "real Amiga" is a TeronCX with a dongle! Ever heard the phrase, "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?"
Note that Draco** (licensed AmigaOS compatible solution) doesn’t have PAD/ECS/AGA chipsets...
**68K based PC with VESA style graphics chipset.
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@K
It is doing a lot of good, actually. It is growing, evolving, changing into something stronger than the force that originated it. Yes, it is growing, new members drift back in, old geeks with faded memories as well as new kids with high hopes and stars in their eyes. They come for Amithlon, MorphOS, AmigaForever, AROS, AmigaOS 4 and even Amiga, Inc's own AmigaDE.
I am legion, for we are many.
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@Hammer
Indeed, and the Draco is an example of where we can go and still remain the same. It lacked the chipset, but held the idea.
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Indeed, and the Draco is an example of where we can go and still remain the same. It lacked the chipset, but held the idea.
It may not have the PAD/ECS/AGA chipsets but the Draco has a valid AmigaOS 3.x licence. Intangible assurance can be a big thing for the end users.
Note that; 'bastardising' a standard may not be the liking of the licensor and which may result in the refusal of giving out the licence to the potential licensee.
The problem with AInc’s vs Genesi (in relation AmigaDE) is the lack of public disclosure(in my POV) in regards to “the terms” in the contract (I assume a contract exist between the two entities). (PS; it’s their right keep those terms in private)…
How could Genesi obtain the Amiga and the Amiga logo IF it's held in AMIGA Development LLC? (I assumed "AMIGA Development LLC" and "Amiga Inc" to be separate legal entities.)
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@Hammer
Depends on which Amiga trademark and logo, I would guess. But then, how would Hyperion have gotten it in that case either.
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Poster: lempkee Date: 2003/8/21 13:31:42
dammy: yes/no ...
the whole thing is , sure DE should be on every plattform around, thats what it was intended for (tao).
Well, we can agree that the object for Amiga Inc is to get DEad to everything possible, that includes the Pegasos. Sales = profit.
but as we know that never happened , but as soon
as they have DE (IF) on pegasos , genesi will yet again USE the amiga name and that aint always good, for many reasons.
If you step away from the emotional kneejerk reaction of Genesi being (which they are) a DEad license holder, and look at it with a business mind, it's a good thing. If you can hold your nose while M$ defiles the Amiga name buy pushing Amiga DEad (which REALLY grates on my nerves), you should be welcoming a fellow Amiga Community member of Genesi to push sales. Even better if Amiga Inc can get royalities off every Peg produced. MIght suck for EyeTech, but they could even rebadge a pegasus so they are not out of the picture entirely. But that isn't Amiga Inc's concern, profit and survival is.
If I was Bill M at this moment and Bill B wanted to deal and buy say, 250,000 USD worth WB disks and would put DEad on every Peg2 and all follow on Peg, I'd buy the man alot of beers regardless on how much I loath someone. That means payoff of old employees and some cash left over for cellphone bills, and maybe a morgage payment or two. If the two million comes from M$ in a few months and I have royalities flowing in from Genesi, it's party time.
The point I'm trying to make with the above, real business men deal with eachother if it's to benefit their companies, regardless of their personal dislikes. Unfortunetly, it appears that Bill McEwen is once again showing that a good and rational business, he ain't.
Dammy
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@Kees
I find funny that my post is called trolling....yet I was responding in the exact same manner as Paul_Gadd
's post. Doesn't get better than this
Good job.
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My post what not trolling at all unless pointing you to a Amiga Inc fan site is trolling, so you want a Amiga biased website? then go to Amigaworld..net which will suit you perfectly.
Funny how you people keep attacking this site but continue to use it, if you do not like this site then dont visit it, the way you guys carry on as if someone is putting a gun to your head or something.
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@k
All i can say is that the moderators can't see everything that is beeing posted .. Amiga.org is a pretty big website with alot of posts coming in every minute.
We are doing our best, and thats all we can do. Don't forget that we are all doing this for free ...
Regarding Paul his comments, i do recall editing one of his comments yesterday.
Next time when you disagree with one of the moderators dicisions feel free to mail me or one of the other staff members.
-k
Edit - Check out our posting guidelines (http://amiga.org/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=6)
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Regarding Paul his comments, i do recall editing one of his comments yesterday.
I did too. If you would have read the entire thread you would have seen my obvious edit. Anyone who steps over the line gets edited. Paul isn't happy getting edited, but he doesn't blame the site for bias when he is.
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@redrumloa
[edit]
lol sorry didn't mean that to sound harsh... Just that he speaks with alot of profanity at times..
[/edit]
As far as bias goes all sites are biased. If you don't like the bias of this one There are plenty of other sites to cater to your personal bias. :-D
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@red
I don't have a problem getting edited.
I have a problem being called a troll when I was responding to a comment above that had not yet been edited.
@Kees
Works both ways man....you want to call me a troll in the forum...I'll tell it how I see it in the forum. You want to email me and tell me what the problem is...you'll get a lot better reaction from me.
k.
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@ k
Last time i checked, it was us (the Amiga.org staff) who are making the decisions on this website.
One rule is:
"No trolling
Don't make posts that are inflammatory just to get people angry."
This rule aplied here ...
If you don't agree with the decision i made, you can simple mail me or another staffmember and complain about it.
These are the rules on this website ... you can accept that and live by it ... or leave.
Again, read our posting guidelines (http://amiga.org/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=6)
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@KennyR and Mdwh2
I understand that the MorphOS crowd is mostly made up of current and former Amiga users. And that MorphOS runs Amiga software under 68k emulation. I also have a Win XP machine that runs Amiga software under emulation. Do you want me to continually come to Amiga sites and "evangelize" you on the benefits of Win XP! :-) I have nothing against Pegasus, MorphOS, or Genesi, except we can't seem to discuss anything AMIGA, without someone suggesting we buy a Pegasus or try MorphOS. There was a post I saw a few days ago from someone interested in coming back to the Amiga. He asked some questions about the Amiga. What were the first responses to him? You should look into MorphOS and buy a Pegasus! Come on at least anwser his questions about the Amiga before trying to convert him to dark side! :-)
There is no problem with carrying news items that pertain to Amiga users. However most people come here to learn more about Amiga computers and OS, and less for systems that emulate them.
It is OK to be an Amiga fanboy, on an Amiga fan site isn't it?
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@Walkernyranger
And what is so not-Amiga about MorphOS? Or Draco? How about the Access? Amithlon anyone?
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Poster: downix Date: 2003/8/22 13:53:39
And what is so not-Amiga about MorphOS? Or Draco? How about the Access? Amithlon anyone?
Damn it Downix! You know better to use logic against irrational dislikes based on emotional tendencies! Jeez, what is this world coming to!
Dammy. :-o
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@Kees
Are you reading my posts backwards and coming up with a new meaning?
My problem was an Infammitory remark was directed at me in a post...and edited with no remark. I responded back...mine was edited with a troll remark.
The easy way would be to just walk away from this "Amiga Community" site because I don't agree. However...this will not happen....sorry..
People here can continue on talking about how Genesi is great...And I will continue to tell them they aren't.
So suck it up everyone...cause 5 years of viewing....is coming to an end. :-D
k.
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@Dammy
Damn it Downix! You know better to use logic against irrational dislikes based on emotional tendencies! Jeez, what is this world coming to!
Please don't get the wrong idea. I do not care what computer, OS, or anything else people like or want. There is nothing emotional or irrational about my decisions or statements. I have looked into MorphOS, contemplated purchasing a Pegasus machine and decided against it. I do not have any bad feelings for any MorphOS, Windows, or Mac user. I am typing this on a Windows machine now. While I do consider myself an Amiga zealot, it is because I have used other systems and would prefer to have the latest Amiga system on my desk. Since my A3000 is a little slow for my tatses now I use my Windows machine or WinUAE for most things. I will buy an AmigaOne when available.
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@WalkernyRanger
Windows XP doesn't run Amiga software "transparentely" (ie, from the user's point of view it's indistinguishable in its behaviour to native software). Also there are other points - eg, I didn't think that Windows' API was very compatible with the Amiga's.
So I don't see how the situation is even vaguely analagous. Also, there are Windows related posts here, but ones that are still related to the Amiga (WinUAE being the most obvious example).
"except we can't seem to discuss anything AMIGA, without someone suggesting we buy a Pegasus or try MorphOS."
Yep, I agree here - though just to add that it happens the other way round (and with other things too, like Amithlon), and it's annoying whenever it happens.
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@Downix
And what is so not-Amiga about MorphOS? Or Draco? How about the Access? Amithlon anyone?
How is MorphOS an Amiga?
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@mdwh2
My PC runs OS3.9 beautifully, in fact better than my A3000 ever did. And while I currently have my set up load into XP and I manually launch winuae, it would not be difficult to have my system automatically load winuae at startup. I don't own Amithlon yet, but as I understand it will boot a PC directly into AmigaOS. I really don't see the difference except that on a PC I am using a real Amiga OS and not an OS that also runs Amiga programs.
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@WalkernyRanger
You don't have to convince me of the benefits - I'm running WinUAE on Windows 2000 here. Nowhere have I suggested that posts about WinUAE, Amithlon etc shouldn't be allowed here. But your description of a system which runs WinUAE automatically most certainly does not fulfill what I said about being indistinguishable from native (ie, x86 Windows) software.
WinUAE, Amithlon, AROS, MorphOS, AmigaOS are all systems that allow running of Amiga software, through various different methods (be it emulating AmigaOS as a whole directly, or providing a compatible API and emulating the programs).
Windows does none of this. It can't even be claimed to be Amiga-like in its behaviour (which, AIUI, MorphOS can).
If the only way MorphOS could be made to have any Amiga-like relevance was to install an additional software, and the Amiga-stuff only ran within this software environment, then you would have a point, and I'd agree that Windows/MorphOS posts woudl only be on-topic here if it was with respect to this additional software. But this isn't the case.
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@WalkernyRanger
It runs Amiga software natively. It was to be the next-gen AmigaOS till an agreement could not be reached between Thendic (now Genesi) and Amiga, Inc. From a design standpoint, it is everything a next-generation Amiga's operating system should be to win back customers that have left for greener pastures.
It may lack the name, but it has the spirit.
(not slighting AmigaOS 4.0 here, mind you. I'm just answering what makes MorphOS an Amiga to me)
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And what is so not-Amiga about MorphOS? Or Draco? How about the Access? Amithlon anyone?
One shouldn’t compare Draco with MorphOS. The Draco is just the hardware with the licensed AmigaOS 3.x operating system. A valid comparison with Draco is the Pegy (whatever number) hardware with a licensed AmigaOS (whatever number) operating system (speculative scenario**) .
I don’t think users of MS Windows will refer IBM's OS/2 Warp as “MS Windows” (setting POV @1995).