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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: System on August 14, 2003, 05:37:19 PM
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From Morphos-news.de (http://Morphos-news.de) : In the text that follows we have shared a few ideas. We decided to post them here because it was easier for us. The Corporate Staff, Core Development and WebDev Teams are too busy doing other things and this is really more of a message to the broader community of MorphOS and Pegasos users. We like posting our thoughts like this and we appreciate the feedback we get (here or directly by email). Thanks for all the interest and support.
Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill
bbrv@genesi.lu
Genesi
The First Computer Revolution of the 21st Century
Change comes hard to people. It takes courage, dedication and intelligence to be different. Leaders change things. Most people do what everyone else does. Most people do not ask ³why?² With change comes confusion. Sometimes confusion itself brings change, but most big changes come incrementally. Opportunity can also occur. It is a good thing to be ready when opportunity comes calling.
Microsoft and the hundreds of companies worldwide that make computers and applications that work with Windows have generated more opportunity through the Internet in a given period of time than arguably any other human creation. The telephone or television and the car or airplane, each introduced change, which led to other developments, but none has introduced as much potential for a massive shift in communication, education and commerce as the Internet. Incidentally, communication, education and commerce are the three most important ingredients that lead to change.
The Internet has introduced a new sort of freedom. Naturally, freedom can inspire both ³good² and ³bad.² This is human nature and no rule or technology alone will change this. We have email; we have spam. We have file sharing; we have piracy. The question becomes: is the freedom to do what you want still freedom when it violates the freedom of some one else? If we talk about the future of the Internet we have to start there and this is where responsibility steps in. Freedom and responsibility work together. Said another way (by someone much smarter): vigilance is the price of liberty. Have we forgotten why homes have doors, or why doors have locks?
Surely, this is the study of Governments, but the Internet transcends government because it can theoretically involve all humanity. How to get so many, so different to agree in union to a code of behavior? Well, it could start here with the Pegasos and MorphOS. There are machines in 34 countries. The first building blocks are in place.
We have to be different if we want to create change. We have to be more than a computer, an OS and applications. We have to be about change. At the same time, we have to be about the same things people have always done; we just have to do them in better ways more conveniently, easier, faster. The car took us places faster. The airplane further and faster still. We can stay right where we are with the television and ³be there.² And, the telephone, well there is nothing new there people talking to people. Now, people talk to each other with the convenience of not ³being there² and from wherever they are.
So, where are we going with all this?!?!? :-D
Where we are. It is our feeling that change begins one person at a time. So each of you reading this can be part of the change. We have some plans for the near and mid-term future and a vision for what comes after, but we cannot do it all by ourselves. We are looking to create big changes and we need lots of people ready to propel and promote this change, but just before
you think we are asking for charity, keep reading.
With the introduction of the Pegasos II we will be launching a number of old ideas in new ways. For example, the Pegasos II will come with MorphOS and the ever evolving and improving SuperBundle. We will not charge for the operating system and we will do everything we can to insure that the SuperBundle remains free to Pegasos owners. This means that we will favor an application that we can offer for free as part of the Pegasos. We want to extend this possibility as far as we can, not just for the "lite" version of an application, but for the fullest and latest release too. That goes for other operating systems as well. We think there has to be enormous "value" in what can be done with the Pegasos. The latest improvements for applications or operating systems must be available to all Pegasos owners. For MorphOS, we want to create an open-source mentality and support system for a closed-source operating system. For the Pegasos, we will offer a EULA-free hardware platform, again drawing innovation to the other object of our commercial interest, the hardware itself. The difference is that Genesi wants everyone who contributes to the success of the Pegasos and/or MorphOS to participate in the success as well.
Step #1: Make it a business
Genesi is not a profitable commercial operation. But, we are looking for like-minded people who want to share the risk and opportunity to turn it into one. The foundation has been laid. We have spent a considerable amount of money and effort just getting to the point where we can now transition it all into a business the first venture phase is almost over. We have gathered a core team. We will continue to recruit others. We have licensed a host of applications and core operating system components to get the package to a point of minimal credibility. Today, we have accomplished this much and we now find ourselves on the threshold of opportunity.
Step #2: Carpe Diem
The Pegasos has been initially targeted at the computer "geek" market. Computer software developers, embedded system technicians and suave computer users that enjoy developing unique computing solutions define this market. In the next marketing phase, we intend to leverage the worldwide interest in the Linux, as HP, IBM and Sun, to further draw attention to the Pegasos. Linux is available for the Pegasos platform from a growing number of distributions, giving the Pegasos owner several choices from which to choose. There is a move away from Microsoft based products, particularly in Europe, where a number of governments have mandated that Linux or another fully featured possibility replace Windows for official computer use. On the Pegasos, MorphOS will be present and exposed to users through the notoriety of Linux. MorphOS will remain our sublime focus. We will ride the Linux wave to bring MorphOS to solid ground.
Simultaneously, there are a number of other very strong trends in the IT market that will positively contribute to a successful broader market introduction of the Pegasos II including: 1) market saturation, where the reasons to upgrade are beginning to sound increasingly empty why upgrade if you cannot notice the difference, and 2) the growing emphasis on mobility which remains dominated by power consumption and efficiency (i.e., heat) issues as they relate to cost and use.
Genesi¹s business plan is based on continuing to seed the "geek" market with a flexible, forward compatible and scalable technology, while progressively targeting the markets that are driving the penetration of the PowerPC into the broader consumer market. For example, the worldwide state-of-the-art in the satellite television technology is a set-top box based on the PowerPC.The Nintendo GameCube and the TiVo are both consumer products based on a PowerPC. These are consumer electronic products AND computers that are restricted to specific functions to reduce cost. It is Genesi¹s position that when these market forces are coupled with the upheaval triggered by Linux in the computer industry, the PowerPC is poised to become a commodity component at a much lower cost that will soon challenge the dominance of Intel-based processors because they are more efficient and powerful cycle for cycle. The Pegasos and MorphOS are well positioned to take advantage of the changes anticipated.
Recently, a large European media company commissioned Genesi to develop a low cost PowerPC based digital terrestrial television set-top box based on the Pegasos platform and MorphOS. In turn, Genesi developed a new kind of device that achieves both consumer electronic television related requirements and computer industry performance standards. On the low-end the device manages digital television viewing with expanded interactive features using instructions embedded in the digital television signal that can modify the information stored in the memory of the device. On the high-end given the addition of a broadband Internet connection, the device combines all the features of a computer and the Internet with all the possibilities created by the huge amount of data that can be transmitted by the digital television signal, whether terrestrially or by satellite. The features available can be scaled as a function of cost and performance from Euro 69/unit to Euro 299/unit. At Euro 299/unit the device is a fully functional computer that can be used as a home server to find and play music or movies (irrelevant of the source), operate with a web cam as a videophone, or supplemented with WIFI features to feed multiple devices in the home.
As the core technology of the Pegasos/MorphOS is more efficient and powerful the total system cost requirements for components, memory, and power can be reduced. *More can be done with less and for less* that sounds like the old C64 marketing sloganS;-). Genesi owns MorphOS and develops and modifies it internally. There are no royalties to be paid to third parties, further reducing the cost of use when compared to other available systems. Certainly, once the Pegasos is fully refined the hardware itself can be reduced to a handheld device, which corresponds to the evolution IBM has fashioned for the PPC. MorphOS is ideally suited for this environment and the future we envision. We can and will create a VERY competitive offering.
Step #3: Make it better; make it the best
Good, better, best. These are comparative terms. They are measures of relative value. To be better than anything else, we have to be the best! How? All the established players have more money and more resources. To be better, we have to change the rules. To draw an analogue from science, think about the electron orbital levels in atoms. As the Periodic Table number increases, the number of electrons and sophistication of electron orbitals found increases. We need to bump things up to the next "orbital". To be better, we have to change the definition of the "best." We have to add another "level." We have to be "next."
Here are a few general areas where you will see our focus. All these issues will be addressed at the right point and be integrated by design step by step into our future product offerings.
1. Security and Privacy issues will be balanced along with a number of existing tools to create a safer computing/internet experience. As the citizen of a country you have certain rights and responsibilities. Think about what is required to vote in an election or obtain a passport. Why should the Internet-based Community be any different?
2. A digital distribution and an online micropayment system needs become a function of the platform itself. Piracy won¹t end with music. Movies are destined to be ³napsterized² next. The system is broken. We need to find a solution. Smart cards will have a role here.
3. Communication, information and entertainment are the keys to success. We want a built in videophone, online mass multiplayer game environments, and easier ways to use the Internet.
In fact, we want something completely better than what exists. We do not need to re-build it, we just need to leverage what is mostly there already and improve it. We have to be inexpensive and we have to provide "value." The platform needs to become invisible to the experience. When you are write a letter, have a conversation, watch a movie or play a game -- the computer is helping you to do something. What you are doing should be the focus, not the computer. The computer is a means to an end. The objective: make the user¹s life better. Make doing anything that can be done with a computer easier to do from anywhere, anytime.
Want to be part of it? We will be offering a way for anyone who has the skills that we need to accomplish these steps the opportunity to earn shares of Genesi stock during the next phase of our corporate development. We will be focused on making as many of you that deserve and want to be shareholders just that. Of course, all the Genesi employees/contractors will have the opportunity to be shareholders. There are plenty of millionaires working for Microsoft thanks to the same concept. We will even extend this opportunity to the Community. In this way we will create the incentive for increasingly broader and more fully committed long-term support. If there are applications that work on MorphOS, we want them integrated into the platform and we want the revisions and improvements coming as quickly as possible. There are websites that can be developed and maintained to promote the platform in one way or another. There are Moderators and online Help Teams that will be needed. We want all to have a chance to earn a stake in the success. We will have plenty of needs and there will be plenty of opportunity.
We understand that this kind of incentive is not for everyone and we respect this. We also respect the fact that without the support and involvement of the Community we would not have the success we are having today or the success we are destined to have in the future. This is our way of acknowledging our appreciation for all the benefit a vibrant, intelligent and participative Community can bring. Please consider this: it is not about creating a great game or an application that will bring a developers success. It is about many developers doing many things and all benefiting from the work of each other that will bring the greatest success. It is the total package. And remember, to be the best it will take much more than "developers." We subscribe to the Phoenix Developer Consortium definition here. There will be many things for many different kinds of people to do!
If you are interested in leading the charge to change and to getting the revolution started with your own contribution, please let us know. We will be happy to hear from all interested parties.
That¹s enough for now. Have a great day!
Raquel & Bill
bbrv@genesi.lu
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**wild applause**
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Interesting, very interesting.
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There's so much crowd-pleasing double-speak here it's very difficult to see the truth. Read it with a critical eye. There are concepts in here that are crowd pleasers and that will draw in the unwary, but which simply will not work as stated. Hold out for the truth.
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****Standing ovation****
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fluffy, very fluffy.
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So is this genesi's IPO (Initial Public Offering)? One thing in that sounded strange.
Genesi is not a profitable commercial operation. But, we are looking for like-minded people who want to share the risk and opportunity to turn it into one.
Those coupla sentences just sound scarry for me. Dont give me a lot of faith :)
Now, most of that, which i wouldnt call a problem seemed like a huge marketing ploy to get people to buy shares... ?? Donesnt really matter if it was, all companies do it, im not having a go at them.
Sounds like they're getting their stuff together. I had no idea that they considered themselfs a non profitable commercial entity... I guess it'd be plane to see with all the R&D shows and promotion they've been doing. But it still surprises me. It makes me think how successfuly they could be when they move to a more commercial side of things and start making money out of it.
But that makes me wonder, how are they going to start making money? Sure they have a lot of good things planed, but have they got any solid contracts?
Well, as it tends to go, things with the highest risk are often the largest providers, but they can be the oposite, being the least providing.
Good luck Genisi, i'll be watching from the sidelines.
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Nothing is profitable out of the door, not even microsoft. However, many people became rich holding onto AmericaOnline stock. I'm all for it.
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seemed like a huge marketing ploy to get people to buy shares... ??
If you re-read it, they're looking to reward people in the community for their hard work, not asking for hand-outs.
As for profitability, with the amount of money they've put into the business, and with the little return, you hardly think they're rolling in the money just yet? It will take them several years to recoup all their startup costs. That is expected in a business today.
Damien
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There are concepts in here that are crowd pleasers and that will draw in the unwary, but which simply will not work as stated.
Such as?
The entire computing industry has become boring.
When was the last great innovation?
There seem to be platforms which appear in a blaze of innovation and just evolve thereafter, the Amiga is a perfect example of this.
Any alternative platform has to be innovative just to be noticed, it's no coincidence that the Mac is where the action is now - and they're not doing anything radical aside from interesting cases.
We have the start, hardware and an OS(s). Now we need to take it somewhere, down a new un-travelled road. Is asking for people to support and participate really worthy of such scepticism?
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we will offer a EULA-free hardware platform
What do they mean ? (Guess they mean any OS can run on the Peggy, but I'm not sure)
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sounds great bbrv! the future seems good!...
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Wow, definitely a visionary (Both of them?)
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@minator
Maybe someone should buy the Walker rights from Merlancia. 8)
(ok, down with the boo'ing. I happen to like the Walker, k?)
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**wild applause**
****Standing ovation****
I don't see anything spectacular in this letter. Single pleasant words for the listener.
Lately alone this web or peg/mos news are come or when they leave amigaone/os4 news the genesis users they leave to remember that the peg/mos also exists.
Amiga.org every day that passes seems but to one it paginates propagandist of peg/mos. I don´t understand cause you ends up losing the impartiality. :-(
It is alone a personal opinion without desires of creating any breakage, but it is something that saddens me and he/she needed to say it.
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Billsey,
I am hard-pressed to see what you are seeing as regards "truth" or "crowd-pleasing". Or the "fluff" that someone else mentioned, either. This is not Amiga Inc talking publicly about going to IPO when it was clearly illegal. This is not a company asking for handouts or community "good will".
Neither is it especially about the post-CBM Amiga community, which clearly can not sustain resellers or developers or publishers.
This is about building business relationships that can place product in a larger world. That means that Genesi needs strong partners with some common vision who can leverage their understanding, connections, and finance. Genesi can only do so much of this in-house, and one might view the GLADIATEUR thread to see some examples of what much of this statement is talking about.
Genesi is not asking for mercy sex because they don't have the cred to get anything real going (which is the approach we have seen all too often in this neighborhood for years). How crowd-pleasing is it, really, to ask that anyone who can contribute in the expanded definition of DEVELOPER begin to think of a larger world in BUSINESSLIKE terms, and to stretch out their expectations of themselves and their abilities? How crowd pleasing is it to mention much of what is said there? ... We are talking some ambitious planning and work, and stepping beyond the comfortable, the secure (a security that has been largely based on low expectations and ultimately failure), and the known.
And with that comes risk, and the need to think past noble failure in the Amiga marketplace that comes with just making an app and expecting to sell a few copies. Larger projects with wider scope built on realistic understanding of the markets and the opportunities and risks are needed for anyone to truly enjoy a long-term future.
Genesi is saying where it wants to go, and offering others a clue on how to participate for bigger stakes. There is no "don't worry be happy" here. The rewards mentioned do not come from simply sending some money. It comes from participation at a very ambitious level, and one needs to grok fully the implications to have a shot at succeeding.
BBRV's statement is not especially geared for people who want to play armchair analyst. It is for people who might consider participating at any level, and so they might understand a larger picture - one that ups the risk but also widens the field of opportunities.
As for PROFITABLE, I've said it all along: Genesi is planning for a long campaign wherein selling a thousand or few boards has little to do with success - unless you are putting those boards into more useful hands, they are wasted. The so-called Amiga market will never matter unless it is tied into a larger view of computing. Which means rethinking what methods to COMPETE are available, and what technology itself implies about the future.
I don't expect that everybody will really see those implications since the field up to now is riddled with failures of vision and commitment, and because people tend to think that what they are familiar with is all there really is to the future - only thinking that the future will be faster and cheaper.
Well, it takes all kinds of development to support this kind of a roadmap that BBRV is presenting, so I expect that developers of all levels can find something to do on a large number of OSes and distros that will satisfy them, and all of it will contribute to the larger picture.
But people who have the ambition to go farther will likely help redfine the context and the geography. I think BBRV and Genesi are working on that angle and already have some partners to get this rolling. These people rightfully understand that the way it is right now is NOT ENOUGH, or they are convinced that the risk of their financial alliance is well-considered. Again, see the GLADIATEUR threads to get an example of the synergy of partners we are looking for.
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This is a very solid decision; employees are
much more apt to take a "personal interest"
in their jobs when they own part of the
company - and can be directly responsible for
their own success. In the end everybody
benefits. I think it's a great idea bbrv! :)
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I'll comment later, when I've filtered the substance away from the soundbytes. :-P
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hi, greenboy! don't worry about Billsey. he always talks like he has secret knowledge. :-D
I was very impressed with Bill and company when I was at AmiWest and i continue to be impressed with the professioanlism I see from all involved with Genesi.
I'va always gambled on myself because I know I wouldn't lose and I think that's what all you felles are doing with your own talents and ambitions! I say, good luck and if I can ever be useful, here I am! :-P
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An interesting gesture, but why not extend an olive branch and create technology partners rather than soliciting dreams from end users?
I can't help but believe that Genesi is a hardware company that invested in the development of MorphOS to provide a delivery platform. In the absence of any alternatives this made sense -- 5 years ago. But today we have a fickle industry and a user base that is decidedly indifferent.
What's especially strange is that politics always seem to take a priority over commercial viability.
Here's a suggestion: agree to licensing terms with Amiga/Hyperion & Eyetech and open up a market. This doesn't discredit MorphOS, it simply offers choice.
Here's another: develop a low-cost micro system/consumer appliance that people keep *begging* for - the MegaPC is a perfect example. This market needs a $500 platform - unless we hit that critical threshold it will remain a curiosity.
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Here's a suggestion: agree to licensing terms with Amiga/Hyperion & Eyetech and open up a market. This doesn't discredit MorphOS, it simply offers choice.
Speaking completely off the record and unofficially, everything is not as simple and straightforward as you seem to want to present.
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Give greenboy a prize for being the jerk who brings Amiga, Inc. into a post where it clearly shouldn't have been. Agenda showing once again.
Too bad Genesi is associated with it as it makes them look bad even to people who were starting to be won over.
You don't boost your product and plans by hoisting it up over another.
Try sticking to merits and you'll do better, greenboy.
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@HMetal
There is nothing to compare merits to except business plans and prospects. In that regard, Genesi sure seems to be in a much better posistion than Amiga. The hardware and software comparisons are largely irrelevent at this point.
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@HMetal
Give greenboy a prize for being the jerk who brings Amiga, Inc. into a post where it clearly shouldn't have been. Agenda showing once again.
Too bad Genesi is associated with it as it makes them look bad even to people who were starting to be won over.
You don't boost your product and plans by hoisting it up over another.
Try sticking to merits and you'll do better, greenboy.
:-?
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After this announcement and previous ones I still don't quite understand the need for Genesi to continue to invest in MorphOS. First, you have all those other *nix-based OSs at your disposal. Second, you have QNX and maybe you could get VxWorks on Pegasos for the embedded market. I think that would be a lot cheaper and faster than producing your own unknown OS from scratch. Shipping MorphOS with every board is good but I think corporate customers need a much better reason to switch to MorphOS other than it's cool and free--so is Linux for that matter. So I'm curious, where is the big differentiator? Why would a company want MorphOS over the alternatives?
I think all potential investors should know how MorphOS factors into the potential rate of return considering the amount of investment going into it. I know I'm going to get in hot water for all this but isn't MorphOS just dead weight going forward?
Curiously Yours,
Potential Investor
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I'm glad I'm not the only one that liked the walker.
Add some louvre vents in the sides a better faceplate & colour keyed drives ... Cold cathode tube inside...
Lovely ol job !! :-D
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There is nothing wrong with providing an example of a fairly recent IPO strategy that was proposed within this community - and died just as quickly. That attempt to involve people of the community was a good example (at the best), of clueless research and strategizing - and at the worst, the willingness to entrap people in the community in a non-legal situation.
Several posts above supplied the need to make such a comparison; to make it clear that BBRV is NOT mentioning IPO or stock in the same context whatsoever. Indeed, the mere mention of stocks by one of the above posters made it imperative to make sure that nobody confuse Genesi's intentions with your company's unrealizable intentions of several years ago. Those Amiga Inc announcements and forum posts of "going public" were not legally realizable, and have NOTHING to do with the HOW WE SEE IT item above.
So. I want to make it perfectly clear that Genesi is NOT proposing to place any burden on users, and that Genesi DOES understand legally what is possible... The last thing this community needs is more half-baked "send in your money" evangelism to dent its resolve.
HOW WE SEE IT is another large slice of the roadmap that BBRV shares with the community from time to time, revealed in mostly general terms so that those who might choose to participate in some way are not later shocked by where things are going and how they are getting there. We do not want people to think this is just about some Amiga desktop replacement and that it ends there, or either that it is about servers and home gateways without memory protection, or any of the dubious and poorly researched things Amiga Inc have said in slideshows and voice and print since their first tradeshow.
Your company was either misleading the users or was incapable of researching the simplest technical issues, and bungled the job of leading the community as it proposed to also do. We are attempting to do better. We've made mistakes and we've had obstacles, but we are going to do our best not to misrepresent what our plans are, regardless of the chance of not always looking like we made the full goals. To work with others at this level has a terrible responsibility with it, and we want everybody involved to have open eyes about the risks.
So, yes, I am going to mention Amiga Inc. It is simply the most relevant example of multiple apparent changes of face and strategy - and the community has paid dearly for all of the incidents, those remembered and those forgotten and overlooked. Blaming all downturns on the market for I.T. has been disingenuous. The root of Amiga Inc problems are deeper and more troubled.
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Ray and Greenboy,
Now that you've had your first say in the matter, please stop now before this devolves into yet another pointless AI versus Genesi debacle.
I say this as an innocent bystander, not as anyone official to Amiga.org. Please feel free to ignore me, but please also think about the consequences of the continued POINTLESS arguing going on.
Wayne
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So, yes, I am going to mention Amiga Inc. It is simply the most relevant example of multiple apparent changes of face and strategy - and the community has paid dearly for all of the incidents, those remembered and those forgotten and overlooked.
And you honestly didn't think nobody was thinking "flamebait" ?? Sorry, but HMetal has a point, this is news about MOS, no reason to jump on Amiga Inc.. (A good example why some people are going to amigaworld and don't look here anymore...)
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I happen to be an official to Amiga.org and i also urge you not to turn this thread into another battlefield.
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So I'm curious, where is the big differentiator? Why would a company want MorphOS over the alternatives?
Smaller then *nix (less resource hungry), closed source (Which for some people can be a big +), perhaps more stable (Don't know) and more end user friendly... Maybe not a reason a big bussines makes it decision on..
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seer,
It's not a bad thing to have an in-house, light footprint OS in constant development, one that incidentally has Amiga 3.1 API capablities to start with (though that also carries its burdens - stability truly comes only from running apps that are REALLY clean). Owning the IP and thus being royalty-free has benefits that some would prefer, and some will also like the simplicity (as you noted).
If one is selling complete solutions in various smaller form factors and besides desktops, this can be of increasing value. Again, thinking in longer terms, MorphOS has the potential to morph into much more than a legacy replacement with extensions... and the developer cross-pollination is desirable as well.
Horses for courses, etc.
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@Greenboy,
It's not a bad thing to have an in-house, light footprint OS in constant development, one that incidentally has Amiga 3.1 API capablities to start with (though that also carries its burdens).
? I wasn't saying anything about this (..being bad..), I was trying to answer ssollie's question on why a compagny would want to boot into MOS... I just forgot to put an @ssollie above it..
Again, thinking in longer terms, MorphOS has the potential to morph into much more than a legacy replacement with extensions...
The potential... That's the keyword.. As long as MOS hasn't reached that potential yet (It may be fine for the average home user now, or the non mainstream user) but for a bussiness it's to risky to gamble on a platform this young and unproven..
Like the dual boot Windows "problem", what would you do ? Boot Linux and run major office packages and industry standard software or boot into an "unknown" OS with very little support so far while the competion and "your" would be customers use the industry standard sollutions ?
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>>It's not a bad thing to have an in-house, light footprint OS in constant development, one that incidentally has Amiga 3.1 API capablities to start with (though that also carries its burdens).
>? I wasn't saying anything about this, I was trying to answer ssollie's answer on why a compagny would want to boot into MOS... I just forgot to put an @ssollie above it..
seer, I was not arguing your point, I understood fully who you replied to. I was simply supplying more, along similar lines : }
>>Again, thinking in longer terms, MorphOS has the potential to morph into much more than a legacy replacement with extensions...
>The potential... That's the keyword.. As long as MOS hasn't reached that potential yet (It may be fine for the average home user now, or the non mainstream user) but for a bussiness it's to risky to gamble on a platform this young and unproven.
Understand MorphOS itself is really not the platform here, not what one is required to gamble on. Pegasos is the platform, and solutions built around it may use MorphOS or use a variety of other OSes. And this allows MorphOS to become more than what it currently is. This allows funding, and cross-pollinating. The potential is not entirely dependent on our little neighborhood's buying habits or needs - which I'm sure many will agree is a GOOD thing ; } - though the intention is to meet those long-desired needs and lots more besides... The MorphOS development team LIVES to that ideal and I doubt anybody will change their obstinant work habits or their ideals.
And as far as gambling and risk: if nobody gambles, nobody wins. The spoils will continue to go to the established high rollers for sure then. But rather than fold and take up careers in knitting there are people who would decide to stay at the game. Maybe it is foolish to try, but there you have it - that kind of foolishness is also usually the start of something new. Without trying and persisting where would the bumblebee or the Wright Bros be?
>Like the dual boot Windows "problem", what would you do ? Boot Linux and run major office packages and industry standard software or boot into an "unknown" OS with very little support so far while the competion and "your" would be customers use the industry standard sollutions ?
We really are not shooting at dual boot machines in a world that really won't care. There are many more interesting things that can be done in developer terms and in business terms - with Linux or any other OS - and the Linux community or companies looking at Linux have known this for years. There have been many products and solutions built around Linuxes or BSDs or QNX, etc, and some have succeeded, and others have been promising enough to make it worthwhile to keep trying. That there are communities behind all of these, and even proven businesses to work with already gives us some hope.
Of COURSE we could fail! But it would be even more foregone if we just stopped seeing goals worth achieving.
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Is it the heat or did they get a 'Lattenschuss'? Or both?
ciao...
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Nice point Hmetal.
Ps: why it is a "beginner" but he has 190+ posts? Because it isn't a MorphOS user?
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@ikir
Please don't troll, no smiley makes it look like a troll.
Anyhow, it is that because the other members of the crew took to heart
all the complaining about user ranks with company names. Thus "Amiga,
Inc" rank was removed and apparently it screwed up the script to start
over.
Bend to hostile comments and just get more:-?
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Note that ALL the company ranks have been removed and not only the ones from Amiga Inc.
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Recently, a large European media company commissioned Genesi to develop a low cost PowerPC based digital terrestrial television set-top box based on the Pegasos platform and MorphOS. ....
At Euro 299/unit the device is a fully functional computer that can be used as a home server to find and play music or movies (irrelevant of the source), operate with a web cam as a videophone, or supplemented with WIFI features to feed multiple devices in the home.
I sure want one!
When will it be released?
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Will that be $50 per share? ;-)
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@redfox
That my friend is a function of supply and demand...;-)
R&B :-D
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Wow, definitely a visionary (Both of them?)
Being a visionary isnt a hard thing to do. Well all have the power. Its knowing the right people or having enough money and the confidence to put your visions to work and make them successful...
Thats what sets others apart. bbrv seems to be doing just that.
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If you re-read it, they're looking to reward people in the community for their hard work, not asking for hand-outs.
They're asking for people to invest(or thats what it sounded like). The rewards they're talking about are financal gains. Notice how they said it was a risky oportunity, it is, Especialy in a firm that does not have a strong revenue.
Yes they'll reward you, but only if their plans go to plan and they start making money. Im not saying their trying to diseeve you. Im just telling it how i see it. They put a lot of eye catching statements in amoungst the fact that they want/need money :).
If however this is a kinda of, become an employee and get some stock as well, then... weird :) Dont flame me, im just telling you how i see it. Im not saying its unordinary and inmoral or anything, im only trying to figure out what the article was about, out aloud and possibly get some feedback..
A few have done just that, and i thank them. Ie greenboy...
As for profitability, with the amount of money they've put into the business, and with the little return, you hardly think they're rolling in the money just yet? It will take them several years to recoup all their startup costs. That is expected in a business today.
Thats what i said... or atleast ment to say! Thats why it doesnt surprise me that they asking for investors... At least thats what the article was sounding like ... risky opportunity?
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Hey Rodney,
It's really no more about looking for investors than it is about getting people to consider in investing in their own companies, to be partners in various project ventures, as well. At least from my angle. The post is so dense with general information on so many fronts that we could extrapolate about the specifics well into next year. And that is probably desirable - to maybe get beyond this mess of "modest apps running on my desk" mentality and really stir the BIG pot might be the way to get a lot of LESS-modest apps running on our desks, eh? Imaginations are one investment...
We are trying to establish many levels and types of investment (time, money, imaginations). And truthfully the investments with individuals and smaller established Amiga-favoring companies are already going. And then there are collective efforts with high finance beginning, like the one behind GLADIATEUR. This is some ambitious stuff.
Somewhere, we know, there are entrepreneurs or would-be entrepreneurs who are not ready for that yet, but who might have big enough plans and ambitions to work in concert with others on such concepts as the internet ideas alluded to in BBRV's post : }
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deja vu ?
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The platform needs to become invisible to the experience. When you are write a letter, have a conversation, watch a movie or play a game -- the computer is helping you to do something. What you are doing should be the focus, not the computer. The computer is a means to an end. The objective: make the user¹s life better. Make doing anything that can be done with a computer easier to do from anywhere, anytime.
or
Increasingly it will be the digital content and the digital activity itself that becomes the only concern. This is a traditional sign that a technology is maturing, as the underlying technology becomes invisible to the user. Digital Living will finally deliver on its promise of Whatever, Whenever, Wherever.
Sounds familiar rather than innovative.
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quote]Give greenboy a prize for being the jerk who brings Amiga, Inc. into a post where it clearly shouldn't have been. Agenda showing once again.[/quote]
Do I get a prize for mentioning AROS?
Oh, yeah. AROS Rocks!!!! :-D (Just wait and see it on the Pegasos)
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I have a couple of programs I wouldn't mind submiting. However, ofcourse there are the programs that I will not give away, and I have a rather large app. Im working on on the Amiga. That one I will be selling.
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omigod bloodline - your agenda is showing! ; }
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iamaboringperson : I have a couple of programs I wouldn't mind submiting. However, ofcourse there are the programs that I will not give away -
Hmmm. Evidently someone didn't write what I read ; } Sheeesh, maybe I didn't read what someone didn't write. Or something.
Do you get fries with that?
...Anyway, commerce is encouraged : }
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After this announcement and previous ones I still don't quite understand the need for Genesi to continue to invest in MorphOS. First, you have all those other *nix-based OSs at your disposal. Second, you have QNX and maybe you could get VxWorks on Pegasos for the embedded market. I think that would be a lot cheaper and faster than producing your own unknown OS from scratch. Shipping MorphOS with every board is good but I think corporate customers need a much better reason to switch to MorphOS other than it's cool and free--so is Linux for that matter. So I'm curious, where is the big differentiator? Why would a company want MorphOS over the alternatives?
Try it out. Linux tends to have a slightly sluggish, more robust feeling (modern OSes alike) - where MorphOS has somewhat of an "instant" feeling. It gives a way faster OS impression. MorphOS has some points lacking compared to the leading OSes out there, but (even taking into account the last year) it evolves in huge steps from it's original base. I expect it to become something comparable to OSX, XP or Linux in a year or two. (Given that the current development rate remains)
Pure IMHO thought. The vision's cope is slightly broad for my taste, so I judge from what I already have instead. :-) I grow suspicious to announcements like these, wherever they come from :-) We will see how they turn out.
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@Wayne
I didn't intend on replying to greenboys follow-up response as I knew what that would be. The same old bog standard for type. :-P
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@HMetal
Nice to see though, that Amiga Inc keeps up to date on Genesi announcements and visions :-)
May we see a new, updated business proposal of cooperation towards them someday, or the situation is way too poisonous for any cooperation?
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oh so life is not just about the allmightly euro...maybe there are things like values...
hmmm, maybe
I hope 'EULA free' doesn't mean, 'pirate platform.'
ZING......not fair?
Oh I don't mean you are planning on a pirate platform, what I mean is I don't see the moral fortitude to stand against it...and without even that much courage, you don't have enough courage to succeed.
Genesi can take an official stand against running Mac OS X on Pegasos II, because currently that is illegal and a violation of Apple's IP and licensing terms.
Then, all the values arguments fall into place.
(I won't predict what Genesi will do, because
unlike Amiga, Inc. they aren't so predictable)
Nevertheless, until then, sounds like marketing hoo ha ha from a valueless money grubber. (I just had to go negative, wink ;-))
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@Marktime
At least you are impartially negative towards everyone. I start to appreciate that :-)
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greenboy:
omigod bloodline - your agenda is showing! ; }
thats just sick. you're banned for a day. LOL :-P
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@Marktime
At least you are impartially negative towards everyone. I start to appreciate that :-)
:roflmao:You have a bloody good point there, Warface.
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SlimJim
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Bend to hostile comments and just get more
Bad choice of wording, sorry if I offended anyone:-(
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Do I get a prize for mentioning AROS?
No you never stop mentioning it although that is a good thing . :-)
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@MarkTime
Breaking an EULA does not make a product illegal. Breaking any contract does not render something illegal. It is not illegal to run Mac OS X on any machine, even non-Apple ones. It is, however, against the EULA, but even then there are limits to the EULA that can allow users to run Apple's OS on any platform, if you've ever read the actual EULA.
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Most of HOW YOU SEE THINGS seems "ok" with me, except that one thing:
1.Security and Privacy issues will be balanced along with a number of excisting tools to create a safer computing/internet experience. As the citizen of a country you have certain rights and responsibilities. Think about what is required to vote in an election or obtain a passport. Why should the Internet-based Community be any different?
I really don't like that paragraph! Words like "Microsoft", "Paladium" and "RIAA" instantly come into mind. This looks like M$'s vision of controlling the user, the internet and eventually the whole World!
Internet was meant to be FREE and everybody I know likes it that way. An attempt to restrict what the user does with his/her computer (either on the on the internet or locally and on any level) would be the worst thing IMO. (http://amiga.org/images/subject/icon13.gif)
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Turrican said:
I really don't like that paragraph! Words like "Microsoft", "Paladium" and "RIAA" instantly come into mind. This looks like M$'s vision of controlling the user, the internet and eventually the whole World! Internet was meant to be FREE and everybody I know likes it that way. An attempt to restrict what the user does with his/her computer (either on the on the internet or locally and on any level) would be the worst thing IMO.
Yes, this worries me a lot too. I clearly feel this is unavoidable, "they" want to implant changes to law, hardware and software, so "they" can finally control it: The Internet.
My suggestion is to not let them do what they want. They will give excuses like copyright preservation to increase control over citizens. Instead, we have to give an optional route, so they get empty of excuses.
My view is to effectively enforce a system in which copyright is perfectly defined for digital content. Add to it an infraestructure of identity and e-commerce that WORKS and is REALLY SECURE.
Well, now avoid doing it too much restrictive, so pirating is still possible, but it becomes something without sense because you can easilly pay e-money for intelectual property, giving you rights to play music or movies EVERY TIME you want.
You pay ONCE you have it forever.
The system must include features such as giving information of how what you pay is split between the author, the producer, etc..
The system must be built in such a way as to make it so decentralized that anyone can sell its copyrighted material without intervention of big organizations. THIS is true capitalism. Anyone can buy, anyone can sell.
My view is to establish a system which turns P2P into legality, with the added ability to provide means to normal people to create content that can be sold without the hassles of being tied to a big company.
Consequences: With time, I am sure that big players of music will loose its place because of their mediocre quality. Modest artists will be as powerful as them and will rise from the obscure places they are now.
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I hope 'EULA free' doesn't mean, 'pirate platform.'
Well, since EULA merely means "End User Licence Agreement" I would tend to argue that the statement actually means Bog All.
(I won't predict what Genesi will do, because
unlike Amiga, Inc. they aren't so predictable)
O ye of little faith... :-D
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@xisp
There are two ways to regulate data:
1) per-machine
2) per-user
Microsoft is solidly in the 1st method, with Palladium. Genesi is for the 2nd, using user-identification to allow for DRM to be handled on a per-user basis. Meaning that once you buy something, it's yours. Like my copy of 1984 sitting right here that I just finished, I paid for it, so thereby I own it. I do not own the copyright, but I own the book.
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Well, as I read it they have fallen a bit short of truely revolutionary. They have a vision, and a plan, and now they are attempting some guerilla marketing, but the structure is still built around corporate self interests.
So here is my challenge. Go it one step further and restructure as a cooperative. Individuals entering into the Genesi Family will have shared interest in success, and a say in the future. This is the ingredient that the Community has lacked since commodore.
The hardware and the OS made amiga a machine of great potential. Potential that was wasted due to the natural tendency for corporate entities to choose profit over quality. But the community made it all durable. The community has provided more support for the Amiga than any of her corporate owners ever did.
Now, Genesi seems to be trying to Co-Opt that spirit and create a computing revolution. Seems to me like they should be offering more than an employee like status.
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Some of this does sound extremely similar to what another company has said....
Giving employees shares is the same strat M$ has used for many many years, and is really just an alternate way of paying any said emplyees, replacing currency for something that *might* be worth far more in the future, thereby keeping the hard cash within the company.
The privays issue sounds completely TCPA to me...SAY NO TO TCPA!
Once again its stated the pegasos is nothing more than a development machine for thier other enterprises, which is where thier focus is.
This VIsion(tm) is remarkabley similar to that other company, with the exception one has chosen a software route, and the other a hardware route.
All fluff and cheering aside, the meat of this "announcement" is really that Genesi have spent huge amounts of resources promoting themselves, and now the wallet is beginning to look a little dry.They are now simply doing an "investment drive"
The validity of thier statements on thier self claimed strong position has yet to be proven, and something only time will tell.
All in all it is a pretty speech, inspiational to the believers.My only question is:
What is a Genesi promotional/investment drive announcement doing and an Amiga website?
I would be just as astonished to see a Toyota promotion in a Ford fan magazine.
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(http://amiga.org/images/subject/icon13.gif)
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* more applause ( and slight whooping ) *
The current computing world is fast becoming stale with so many immitation products and more rehashes of old software. It IS time for the next computer revolution - and for that, somebody needs to increase the competition against the dominant 'boring' superpowers. Remember just 15 years ago, there were numerous computers all offering their own solutions to computing : Spectrum, Atari, Commodore, Tandy, BBC, Amiga...
The greatest strength of the Amiga ever since way back was the innovation of the solution, and the community!
If we pooled our community together into an open forum where everybody discusses ideas and suggestions for implementations of the future of computing, these ideas would become refined and flaws spotted, new iterations developed and new ideas sparked....
Genesi should be applauded for understanding that selling to only a niche market will never change the world. We need new solutions, and as the most opinionated user group in the world - we need community input!
stop bickering like bitches and commit yourselves to improving the computing world rather than tearing apart the community that is all we have left.
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@IonDeluxe
AOrg is an Amiga community website, not an Amiga, Inc website. They even went so far as to get their own web hosting after Amiga, Inc started to put pressure on them to be AInc-exclusive. It is to have material covering the whole gambit of the Amiga community, from UAE to even AmigaDE. Heck, I've even seen things like the CommodoreONE or the XGamesStation on here quite a bit. They all relate to the community, or are a part of the community, thereby they should be covered. Genesi is part of the community, not only from it's employees (who are, for the most part, from older Amiga companies, including Commodore itself) but from it's direction, which was set out to include the community. Sure, they don't have the brand name, but then again, neither did the Draco or the WonderTV, but they are still Amiga's in at least spirit if not name.
If AOrg were to go with strictly Amiga, Inc news, it would cut into a third of it's information. No more news about 3D0, no more information about what Milan computers with it's Atari-clone is doing, won't hear a peep about Petro and his new business. In short, we'd become a closed community, and closed systems suffer from entropy, a gradual decay to oblivion. I'd rather keep things open, and sure I'd see stuff I'm not going to read (like the XGamesStation for good example) but there are stuff that I will read (like the C-ONE). It makes things more interesting, and gives us a larger view of the world. We Amigans are part of a greater world, and we must understand that only by seeing the similarities rather than the differences can we grow as a community again.
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BBRV and Genesi -
What you have all accomplished in just this past year is more than ANYONE has done since Commodore. It has been very refreshing to see your innovative concepts and designs come to life. The Revolution has Begun! You have vision of the future and a roadmap to get there. This whole Amiga vs Genesi has been put behind us. The only people holding on to it are the "amiga zealots" who actually seem jeoulous of your success. It is clear to people in the know that OS4 and MOS are going in different, although somewhat parellel directions.
However, Genesi has a huge advantage as we have a complete Native App Suite and a very robust and effecient Working OS. I actually look forward to using my Pegasos and it is much more stable than my 4000T PPC which hasnt been powered on in a month!
What you need to do now is get the production of Pegasos 2 going and keep refining the OS. We need BurnIT Pro for DVD burning/backup, Intergrated TCP/IP stack, and a Firewire Video Capture/Edit solution and we are off to the races. I recieve email almost daily inquiring about when Pegasos2 will be for sale. People are waiting for the Revolution! We are so far past this OS war its not even funny. Many people outside the MOS community dont really know what is going to happen in the future, and I can say as a Long Time Amigan (1988) this is the most excited I've been about a Computer in my Life!
Keep up the good work and keep dreaming and realizing!
magnetic
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Downix wrote:
They even went so far as to get their own web hosting after Amiga, Inc started to put pressure on them to be AInc-exclusive.
Nate, that is pure nonsense. No one here pressured Wayne to be Amiga, Inc. exclusive. If he's telling you that, then he is a liar.
The fact is, the pressure on Wayne was from community members, not Amiga.
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@HMetal
The fact is, the pressure on Wayne was from community members, not Amiga.
Yes, and we know exactly who those community members are and how close their relationship to Amiga Inc is.
I put it to you Ray that Amiga Inc employees not only knew about the pressure those "community members" were putting on Amiga.org, but also actively encouraged it.
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Ray --
Let's not open that can of worms again, shall we? You are very well aware of what they taste like, as well as the true origins of this situation and people involved.
It only remains to be revealed that those specific people are -- in fact -- being employed or supported (well at least in the same sense as you are being 'paid') by Amiga Inc in some fashion.
In the end, irrelevant. I no longer work here.
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@Wayne
Considering that you and Nate both work for Genesi, I think it's absolutely appalling that you, on what many believe is a very upstanding "community site," state something like this without undeniable and unverifiable proof.
I know that no one with direct contact to me had ever intended to or had never harassed you in any way. Again, Vince and I went out of our way to make sure you and the site were happy.
It is Vince and I who have/had 100% control of the servers outside of HQ and no one else, and you knew that.
As for this "can of worms," I will keep it open until I am satisfied that it is settled once and for all, either way.