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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: Russ on July 31, 2003, 05:33:00 PM
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Mr. Hardware Computers and A.M.U.S.E (New York City Amiga Users Group) are happy to announce the showing of Amiga Operating system OS 4.0 next Tuesday Aug 5th 2003 8:00pm-10:00pm (EDIT - Old address removed by moderator, new one from the original poster inserted below).
A clarifaction, the building for the showing is NYU Main Building, Room 706, 32 Waverly Place (near Washington Square East).
The OS will be running on a Power Pc processor in a Amiga 4000. This is Beta version and the first showing on the East Coast. We will also be showing the AmigaOne G4XE based systems and we will have many Amiga hardware and software items for sale, held over from the Sacramento California show. All are invited. Amiga, Back for the future.
Further info call Russ Norrby 631-821-2364
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Will you be showing a Pegasos running MorphOS as well? :-D
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Question:
How on earth does:
A.M.U.S.E
equal:
New York City Amiga Users Group
?
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How on earth does:
A.M.U.S.E
equal:
New York City Amiga Users Group
New York City Amiga Users Group? :-? :-D
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AMUSE = AMiga Users Society Eastside
----- Edit -----
Nothing about the name on their old site (http://web.archive.org/web/20000925104353/www.tiac.net/users/linusly/)
Does anyone know if they have a new one?
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It would be really nice if they would do a demo in Western NY too (like in Rochester). Driving down to NYC & back is a bit of a pain. I'd rather drive to Boston.
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Good job Russ
Lou and I will try to make it for your demo. Will you let the users try out OS4? Is most of the system still 68k emulated or has Hyperion ported more PPC modules? i'm looking forward to seeing it in person...
@Darth
I demoed a Pegasos MOS 1.3 at this meeting back in April :-D
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@Magnetic:
Is there any chance you could take your video camera to this OS4 demonstrations and take some movies like you did for the Pegasos demo?
I'm interested in seeing OS4 in action - running some applications, playing MP3's while running FXPaint, and so on. Just something so we can see how snappy it is, how well it copes with multi-tasking, compatibility and so on.
Thanks!
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Its AMUSE, the New York Amiga Users' Group, Inc. in New York since 1985. We were the co-sponsorrs of the Ami-Expo shows here and in Europe and also the home of Amiga-TV, on the air since 1993.
and here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amuse-ny
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amiga_northeast
http://www.webspawner.com/users/amuseamiga/index.html
and our old webpages:
http://www.geocities.com/lshinckley/
http://amigatv.freeyellow.com/index.html
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We're here!
http://www.webspawner.com/users/amuseamiga/index.html (http://www.webspawner.com/users/amuseamiga/index.htm)
Thanks for the pointer to the old site. I didn't know it was there.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amuse-ny (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amuse-ny)
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The entire system is run using the PPC in 68k emulation.
While Almost all of the modules while having been ported to C for PPC recompilation. They have currently been compiled in 68K for rigarous testing of the 68k emulator. AOS4 features both interpretive and JIT emulation. I installed it over a 3.9 system. IDE thru emulation takes a heck of a performance hit but the rest of the system seems to perform okay Using a 200 mhz 604 and a PicassoIV graphics card. Would like to see how it performs using PPC libraries instead of emulated 68K. Sigh Maybe next month after they finish testing the emulator.
Hope to see you there Tom.
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While I would like to demo a Pegasos system in the future. They currently are not available to purchase and beside I talked to Bill Buck at Amiwest. He said that Tom Morris is the Official Pegasos dealer and I can't become one here.
Before people attack me That statement is by no means a Put down of Tom or Genesi.
All I am saying is that I don't own a Pegasos and can't currently buy one now, and Seeing as how I can't become a dealer. I have no knowledge on delivery or specs of the next gen Pegasos or Retail pricing. So if you want a demo of a Pegasos system in new york you have to contact Tom.
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AOS4 features both interpretive and JIT emulation.
Do you mean that they've got the JIT going? That would be great news :-)
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@Darth_X
*COUGH*
:-P
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@KurtGrach
I have been demoing Pegasos and Morphos since APRIL. I also have written a complete review of Pegasos that was finished 2 months ago. Our website has the full review and downloadable MPEG videos of Pegasos running Morphos 1.3, Debian Linux, and Mac On Linux. Please go to our site:
www.magneticsystems.com for more info!
I did a demonstration of the PEG in late April early May at the very same place you are doing your demo! (NYU) I have been doing demos privately and publically for MONTHS. You had NO interest in seeing the Pegasos in action, but now that I see you do I will put you on my mailing list and inform you of the next showing.
NYCPUG (New York City Pegasos User Group) and Magnetic s will be announcing a public demonstration of the New MorphOS 1.4 Operating System, The Superbundle Software Package of NATIVE MorphOS apps such as Pro Station Audio and FX PAINT, as well as classic Amiga programs running Flawlessly on the Pegasos and Morphos... such as Image Fx, Amiga Amp, Photogenics, Pagestream, MOS MAME and more! That would be a good time for you to see how much power the PEG and MOS have! Kurt:I'm glad you see the light
of the Pegasos in flight!
:-D
I would love to see the Beta of OS4 you have, as I've only seen pics online of it. I am surprised its still in the 68k state. I thought it was going to be done by October..... what has improved since Euro Road Show? What Amigas apps run on it?You say there is a JIT 68k emu but Hyperion themselves said it is not running yet. Why on earth are you running a Cyberstorm with the IDE controller? Doesn't OS4 support the UWSCSI of the CYPPC? Its a great controller and no one in their right mind would want to run off the old and slow IDE on the 4000....
I wish you luck with your demo and I hope to be there to see it for myself. However, I'm in Cape Cod and may not be back to NYC in time. Lou Vidal of QAUG mayb e there to tape it..
Kurt, If you or anyone elese in the area, or country for that matter, want a Pegasos Board or System or Systems we can provide it. We will be stocking Pegasos2 boards and turn key setups!! How many would you like?
** Pegasos 1 boards are available NOW if you want one but ACT FAST!
magnetic :-o
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I'm sick of seeing this OS4 on tour bollocks, I just wish they'd stop pissing about and release the bloody thing....
I remember when I used to care..... honestly it's a joke.
sKy
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I'm sick of seeing this OS4 on tour bollocks, I just wish they'd stop pissing about and release the bloody thing....
Very nice and uninflameable comment. Congratulations.
For your info, the individual showings around the globe have all been organized by dealers and/or user groups. Neither Hyperion nor Amiga had anything to do with it Believe it or not, there *are* people interested, and for those interested people the organizers have done their (excellent) job. If you don't like it, just ignore it.
I am sick of seeing people slander the organizer's work.
I remember when I used to care..... honestly it's a joke.
If you are not interested, why don't you stay away from these news items, then? (No need to answer, that was a rethorical question).
You are free to go or not go visit one of the showings.
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I am surprised its still in the 68k state.
It's not stricly 68k. Some modules are PPC, some 68k. From the top of my head here's a list of all PPC modules
intuition
gadtools
input.device
cia.resource
timer.device
SmartFileSystem
CDFileSystem
icon.library
diskfont.library
ft2.library
layers.library
con-handler
exec
expansion
ram-handler
utilty.library
dos
...
I don't get them all now :-) I might have been easier to name the 68k modules...
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@Rogue:
With things moving to PPC, is there a big difference in speed? Show reports have indicated that OS4 is slow. But with more and more PPC modules, is the speed up allready noticable?
(One wonders how fast it can be with a CPPC card as it is old hardware).
Aren't you afraid that ppl will compare MorphOS on Pegasos and OS4 on cyberstorm (which is not a fair comparison). Or are you confident that, once completed, it will be fast even on CPPC?
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@Rogue
IIRC wasn't intuition 68k at Amiwest (that's why the windows wern't moving as fast as they could) - I'd have imagined that PPC intuition would make GUI far more responsive :-) And is DOS newly converted?
BTW I see that the news has been edited and the JIT isn't mentioned now - I guess that means it isn't running :-(
Keep up the good work with OS4 :-D
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With things moving to PPC, is there a big difference in speed? Show reports have indicated that OS4 is slow. But with more and more PPC modules, is the speed up allready noticable?
Sure there is a big difference. Right now most of the rendering code used to be 68k (especially intuition and reaction). Intuition is PPC now, reaction is following.
Aren't you afraid that ppl will compare MorphOS on Pegasos and OS4 on cyberstorm (which is not a fair comparison). Or are you confident that, once completed, it will be fast even on CPPC?
Well, it takes a huge amount of ignorance to compare a CSPPC against any modern machine and saying "hey, the Pegasos is faster than that". I mean, there isn't only a differently clocked chip at work, the whole architecture has changed dramatically.
Not that I wouldn't expect these comparisons :-D
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IIRC wasn't intuition 68k at Amiwest (that's why the windows wern't moving as fast as they could) - I'd have imagined that PPC intuition would make GUI far more responsive
Yes, the Amiwest version was already a week or two old. We never show the latest stuff because we don't like surprises :-) So the Intuition at Amiwest was 68k, as was diskfont and ft2 (both of them make a big difference in rendering speed and font loading).
And is DOS newly converted?
Yes, DOS is only a few days old on the PPC. I never dreamed it was possible, with all the BCPL legacy stuff to be thrown out. Colin did a tremendous job at cleaning the code out and still staying compatible to old startup codes... Porting to PPC, after he finalized the code, was just a matter of hours. Cheers to Colin and Jörg for this.
BTW I see that the news has been edited and the JIT isn't mentioned now - I guess that means it isn't running
Well, like I said we never really show all the latest stuff, only if we know it runs stable. This is the reason why most of the time OS 4 didn't crash on these shows. (and yes, on the europe shows, people could actually play with it)
In the case of the JIT, it's got a few minor issues to be taken care of. Petunia is finished, it's just a matter of the integration into OS 4.
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Thank you Rogue for all the comments.. It's always nice to hear someone say there is progress.. Not just knowing there is.. If you know what i mean. ;-)
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@Tom
Yes it supports the UWSCSI controller but I have lots of spare IDE drives. So it was easier not to mention cheaper. To Stick the SCSI.device V50 into the new kick. Then to break open a NEW SCSI drive. I might transfer things over to the SCSI bus for the demo. I have to see how things work out. I Just got some more PPC parts to replace the 68K code. Much of the code I believe has been ported from assembler to C.
So to do the switch from the current emulated 68K to full blown PPC is just a simple recompile of the existing source.
I did not mean to say I will be showing the JIT all I meant to say is that when released AOS V4 will have both types.
The AOS V4 I will be showing is a mixture of PPC code and Emulated 68k code all running on a 200 Mhz 604. The A4000 is not my Tower but an A4000 desktop provided to me from Mr Hardware Computers. I just helped him out by intstalling AOS V4 on the A4000. I now currently testing the system out and installing a few programs to demo.
Tom I have played with MorphOS. I have always had an interested in MorphOS. I did not make your two earlier demos because like you. I used to travel allot for my job. This is now no longer the case. :) I am also well conversant in what MorphOS is capable of.
All I wanted to say is if you want to see a
MorphOS demo is contact Tom and he will arrange one for you.
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magneticsnyc is not out there, magneticsystems domain is for sale, but this one is registered:
Registrant:
magnetic systems (LXTKXLZYND)
918 metropolitan ave
brooklyn, NY 11211
US
Domain Name: MAGNETICSYSTEMSNYC.COM
Administrative Contact:
Morris, Thomas (35352375P) metro.realize@verizon.net
918 metropolitan ave
brooklyn, NY 11211
US
718.599.0001
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What i'm curious to see is how the various PPC system emulating a real Amiga compare to the x86-based Amiga emulators. In terms of speed, flexibility and reliability. If one can get x86 boards for cheaper and run an Amiga emulator on it that's as fast or faster, then I hate to say it, but there goes a big reason to go with a PPC solution. Word that OS4.0 is kinda slow- even on a 66MHz PPC, let alone more modern PPCs... well that's just depressing.
Now if the new "Amiga" had some special hardware that gave it clear advantages over the emulations- even just a way to assist AGA compatibility or emulation, then we'd have a good reason to stick with the corporate plan.
As it stands, we have no compatible hardware (at all! neither processor nor chipset), When it comes to that point, one has to ask if there's any benefit in going with AI's plan, as opposed to say, X86 running an emulator. Sad but true. Nobody hates x86 more than me. But one has to ask where the benefit is in paying more for a system that's no faster at running existing Amiga programs than wintel running UAE or similar.
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>Much of the code I believe has been ported from assembler to C.
Cripes. Weren't these Amiga Inc guys around in 1990 to remember how the transition from Assem to C caused 2.04 to be slower than 1.3? C has proven to be nowhere near as portable as the hype of the early 80's promised, and it sure as heck is harder to deal with, and the compilers out there aren't even close to what could theoretically be reached (in terms of creating executables that are lean and fast).
Come on people. Get yourselves some cross-assemblers if you have to. Relying on a compiler to create fast code has always been a mistake. Sure if you could trade speedy executables for faster development time, it might be worth it in a pinch. But it's been over a decade and everybody is still struggling with C portability issues. C is crap. Stick a fork in it.
BTW the Apple community has several fast 68K emulators. So why are we reinventing the wheel instead of licensing one of them?
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Hi!
>Cripes. Weren't these Amiga Inc guys around in >1990 to remember how the transition from Assem >to C caused 2.04 to be slower than 1.3? C has
Most of the OS was still ASM at that point.
Believe me. Maybe you talk about that some
BCPL (predecessor of C...) code was replaced
with C-Code ?
>Come on people. Get yourselves some cross->assemblers if you have to. Relying on a compiler to
Nonsense. Do you know how DIFFERENT various
ASM (for different CPU families) are ??? For example
on 68k you have an extremely fast 16 Bit shift
instruction (which leaves the other half-word unchanged). On PPC such an instruction does not
exist, and has to be emulated by using a whole
bunch of commands, being much slower.
The only reason for ASM is to be very close
to a SPECIFIC hardware. If you want cross-platform
that's an argument for C, not ASM.
ASM is not for Cross-platform developement, get
the message. If you translate an ASM-Source for
CPU-Family 1 to ASM-Code for CPU-Family 2
you might even end up (under certain circumstances) with something slower than a C-Rewrite. Of course you could do a complete rewrite (not 1:1... instead a complete reimplementation for the new hardware) in the new ASM-language. But why no Rewrite in C, then ? It has only advantages.
Ah, on a modern CPU there is no such huge speed-difference between ASM and C-Compiled code anymore (while on the 68k there is a huge difference...). This is because modern CPUs (like
the PowerPC) were designed with taking into account that very efficient C-Compiled-Code should
be possible.
>struggling with C portability issues. C is crap. Stick >a fork in it.
Fine, you like ASM. But still
this does not require a C-is-crap attitude. Try to
stick to the reality - and check out the facts first :)
BTW: Sometimes I am using ASM too, so *I know*
the facts...
>BTW the Apple community has several fast 68K >emulators. So why are we reinventing the wheel >instead of licensing one of them?
Why spend money for an Emulator if we have an Emulator of our own ? Be also aware that
"just a command-by-command Emualtion" - like
in UAE - is not possible to use in an OS. The
Emulator needs to operate on a very low level,
and I am not aware of Emulators who provide this
publicly available on the Mac... the only one I am
aware of is the Emulator from Apple, and I do not
think it is available for licencing...
Steffen
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Thanks to all for coming - we had nearly 30 of you for the meeting, considerably more than is usual these days. Some photos are here:
AMUSE - photos of OS4 meeting on Aug 5 (http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/amuse-ny/lst?.dir=/Amiga+OS4+NY+debut+at+AMUSE&.src=gr&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/)