Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: Senex on July 19, 2003, 08:47:24 PM
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In two comments at MorphOS-News.de, Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck of Genesi announced the Pegasos III (http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=388&page=6) with a PPC 970 CPU for early next year (http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=388&page=5).
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Eh.. Shouldn't Genesi at least wait after the Peg 2 has been released/sold before announcing this ? Aren't you afraid this will hurt sales ? Even a trade in isn't something lots of buyers believe in (IIRC C= Benelux and in other countries did similar trade ins but weren't that succesfull).. Also, sounds like the A500+ -> A600 -> A1200 mess...
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5 months + what the term "early" permits, with the Pegasos II unreleased. A strict timeline. Are the chips permitting the use of 970 are available?
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So this is announced as news? Some comments on a forum! :-?
That is not news. A press release is news. This is rediculous.
I allready don't read many threads anymore because I know where they will end but if this kind of thing continous, I think I will scrap reading Amiga news sites all together.
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Of course you are right. The statement has not nearly enough Officialese, and the 970 is like, totally an old-hat bore...
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@seer
Targeting different markets. The announcement of a possibility of a G5 at this time shows potential customers from outside of the Amiga community that Genesi is working on both entry-level as well as workstation-grade solutions. Even just off-handed as this comment is, it adds momentum behind Genesi's efforts to enlarge the community.
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@ PulsatingQuasar
So this is announced as news? Some comments on a forum!
That is not news. A press release is news. This is rediculous.
The Pegasos III was news to me (and really nice news too)! :-)
This is the nice thing about the community forums IMO; the close and "inofficial" contact with corporate representatives. Pretty unique and I think very appreciated by most of us.
Oh, you want more "formal communication"? Well, perhaps you missed the "see you at AmiWest! ;-)" part?
More info will follow there I suppose! Man, that is going to be one great show! I whish I could be there ...
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My vapor detector is beeping.
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Yeah, I'm not sure of the wisdom of announcing rev 3 of the product when rev 2 is not on sale yet. Especially when rev 2 is a dinosaur and rev 3 is current hardware.
Unless they're doing a 68050 and scrapping the Peg 2 in favour of the Peg 3. That would be a smart move, freeing up resources from the lesser of the two projects to beef up the better one. I mean, why buy legacy when you can wait a few months and get a current system? Since they own MOS, operating system support shouldn't be a problem either (unlike x86, which goes 64 bit when Bill Gates says it does...)
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Isn´t the STB and the handheld more important?
Maybe it should read PegIII prototype in january 2004.
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pegasos 2 is not worth buying now if pegasos 3 is going to be available and pegasos 2 is not even out and its being replaced thats more new boards than i have had in my pc.
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Hey amigamad, after the G5, there will be a G6, after the G6, there will be a G7.
oh gosh, you won't buy a computer for the next decade...sorry about that.
But seriously, the same is true of the AmigaONE, they will continue to update it with faster speeds and newer processors over time.
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BBRV rarely if every isssues press releases. They seem to find it easier to announce or let slip things in open forums.
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damn, im not sure weather i should go for the Peg II, or wait a short while for the peg III, i would much prefer the III...
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I was on a spanish singles chat forum and although
I dont speak spanish when I herd some guy from
amiga inc. say Amiga 4 I think it's obvious that
this product will be out soon...... :-o
even though the Amiga2 and Amiga3 are not
out yet I give full credit because of an official
let slip........ ;-)
Well lets just see what happens :-)
Amiga can now compete with BBRV in the
number of vapour hardware products again....
.......I'm sooooooo releaved :python:
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Hi Pantro, check it out:
Happy SuperBundle Sunday! (http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=388&page=12)
Be good now!
;-)
R&B
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Why not just port MorphOS to the G5 and be done with it?
Unless you're going to suggest the PIII will cost a lot less.
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The money is in the hardware strobe. By the G5, we assume you mean the Mac? The PIII will be alot less than that machine and the G3 version will be cheaper than the eMac. Remember, the idea is either a low cost alternate OS platform (with MorphOS as an added bonus :-D) or an ultimate inexpensive (relatively speaking) SuperGeekTweak machine.
Is that more clear? :-D
R&B :-)
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By the G5, we assume you mean the Mac? The PIII will be alot less than that machine
A lot less in *price* I hope, not necessarily in performance and features? ;-)
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Tomorrow Genesi will announce the G6 Pegasos 43
...........
In all cases happy to see good intention to produce new hardware.
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Breaking news:
Amiga Inc announces Fleecy gets his hair cut.
Let's breakout the champagne! ;-)
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oh gosh, you won't buy a computer for the next decade...sorry about that.
Dont be stupid 3 new boards in so little time even my pc only needs a new board every 2 years ore more .
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Well, I think the idea is that you choose
the board that suits your personal requirements.
You don't have to buy all 3. For instance many
are staying with their original PegasosI+G3 since
it performs well for them. That's why you see
several models being offered in every computer
market at all times. Choice is good, forced upgrades
are not. The Pegasos performs well from the base
model up, so all is good. :)
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But when you anounce a new version most people would rather wait for the new version instead of buying what is already out.
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Depends on how much longer you want to wait and how much money you want to spend. Especially if already the Pegasos I fits your needs.
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One happy day coming to a close here in Paris...:-)
Just posted THIS (http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=388&page=28) over on MorphOS-News. We will try to answer some of the questions above too...
TMHG, well yes, that is what we meant! :-D We should have a fairly "cool" machine running then with MorphOS and all the other OS possibilities from AROS to Zeta!
ikir, G6 Pegasos 43?! Sounds like a American football audible...;-)
realstar is right amigamad. Different horses for different courses. The focus is on the G3 and 970, not the G4. You need to understand that the information we posted yesterday was carefully considered and done intentionally. We have taken a thoughtful position. We hope it is understood and appreciated. Frankly, the Pegasos I with April 2 is a good machine. We are proud of it. Look at what has been accomplished with a few hundred motivated users! In six months we might even be ready for a broad market introduction and be taken seriously by the IT market -- at least the geeks! :-) BTW, thanks again for changing that avatar...;-)
Senex, thanks for your support. We really appreciate it. We saw the translation on Amiga-News. Great! BTW, how was our German? 8-)
AmiWest should be a memorable experience.
Happy SuperBundle Sunday!
Raquel and Bill
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True but as in the pc world its a my machine is more powerful than yours thing knowing there is a 3 will mean i will definatly wait for this before buying one . :-)
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No problem!
:-)
Just remember we are trying to eliminate CPU speed from the marketing discussion/buying decision. The issue is what WORK (activity exerted through power or faculty applied to perform a task) can be accomplished in the time allotted -- not how fast we ran to accomplish the work!
WATTS HAPPENING! PegPower!
Get it?! :-)
Power provides a measure of both the amount of work that is done (or, equivalently, the amount of energy expended), and the time it takes to do it.
power (in watts) = work (in joules) / time (in seconds)
That is where WATTS HAPPENING comes from in terms of the Pegasos! :-D We need to get people thinking this way -- power and faculty -- is more than just CPU speed.
R&B :-)
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Dont be stupid
@Amigamad
OK, I'll try very hard not to be stupid.
You act like there is a problem when someone gives you information about future products. *please please please, lie to me or at a minimum keep things hidden from me*
Whatever.
Listen, if BBRV told someone about a Peg III, and I have no reason to believe that a Peg III isn't something factual...so what? You say people will wait...well lets examine that.....
WELL GREAT. THAT'S GOOD. Maybe it's not what BBRV intended, but if people want to wait for the latest hardware. If they would prefer to buy a Peg III, if they wait, and they do buy a Peg III, just what is so bad about that?
That is their choice. If someone buys a Peg 2, and it just happens to be the day before the Peg 3 is released, they might be glad if they were told about a new product....they might be glad they could choose whether to wait, or not....it doesn't force them to wait, it just gives them more information to make the best choice.
But in the end...I think you buy what you need at the time you need it. Computers lines are always rev'd...thats life in the computer business.
I take your comments as if they are genuine, because its the most interesting thing to assume....you really were concerned that someone informed you of information?
It's such a familiar theme around here...please, don't tell me....please not the truth....please I can't handle it! LOL, sorry amigamad, but I don't know why amiga fans seem to have low self esteem, almost across the board....
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True if you are happy with something or have already bought a pegasos 1 or 2 you wont go and upgrade as soon as a new version comes out .with me its if its fast enough then why upgrade while it does what you want the pc im using at the moment is limited to 266 bus athlon xp 2600but the only thing i will change will be the old geoforce ti4200 and get a dvd writer.When i buy a pegasos it will be built into a small atx case to save space something wich is cool with mini sized motherboards. :-)
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Hey amigamad, after the G5, there will be a G6, after the G6, there will be a G7.
Yeah, but the G5 is such an overall improvement to the PPC line that his argument has validity. The G3/G4 has been crippled for years. Going from a G3 to a G4 is an incremental improvement, at best. Going from a G3/G4 to a G5 has alot more impact.
Why get a system based on a CPU that is 6 years old (G3 was introduced in 1997, I believe) and still crippled by a FSB from 1999 (introduction of 100 MHz FSB)? I must claim some ignorance, but is the G3 available at higher that 100 MHz even now?
The G4 harkens back to 1999. 4 years old. The G4 finally got a 133 MHz FSB back in the first month of 2001. So that's basically 2 and a half years old. But hell, I guess the Pegasos is reaching back to 1999 for its processor bus as it's listed at 100 MHz anyway:
http://www.pegasosppc.com/tech_specs.php
So please tell me again, why is waiting a few more months for such a generational increase in power (PegPower, right?) and overall system performance such a foolish notion?
Now if, say, it was "wait 5 more months for a faster clocked G4", ok, you got a good point there. But it's like saying, "you're stupid to wait 5 months for a 64-bit CPU with one of the best FSB's on the market and some of the best performance currently shipping." Especially when you compare it to the under-performing G3/G4 line which has stagnated for years.
But hey, I guess low power consumption is also an issue. The question then is, will the Pegasos 3 be underclocked to lower the power requirements? I mean, there's got to be SOME reason that Apple's throwing in a 450 watt power supply even for the low-end 1.6 GHz G5/PPC970/GPUL/whatever you want to call it.
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Developer_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G5/PowerMacG5/PowerMacG5.pdf
Page 12 for details. Maybe it's the AGP Pro slot that's sucking all that extra juice, eh?
Well, as long as you don't go over 1.2 GHz (18 watts) you should be ok. If you want performance? 1.8 GHz is sucking 42 watts. That's more in line with the 1 GHz G4e at 30 watts.
So should people not wait because of such an improvement? Or should people say, "oh, it won't be as power efficient for performance as the G4s and G3s will, I'll just get a G3 instead?"
Or will that timeframe put the Pegasos 3 up against cheap systems from IBM themselves?
http://arstechnica.com/archive/news/1058761450.html
Perhaps Mr. Buck is trying to schmooze with IBM and convince them to supply 'em with cheap CPUs and chipsets or something?
http://arstechnica.com/archive/news/1058552694.html
Economies of scale, after all.
But Mark, you certainly cannot fault anyone for holding off when the next product is such a monumental improvement over the current generation of PowerPC products? Can anyone, honestly, justify getting a G3 when there might be a G5-based Pegasos only months away? And probably selling for around the same price point?
Most of y'all have been using tricked-out Amigas for years. YEARS. What's another few months for an actual cutting-edge product?
I'm not saying the AmigaOne is a good buy, either. But if I were an Amiga loyalist and AInc announced the AmigaPPC970 due in the next half year or year, I sure as hell wouldn't waste my money on an AmigaOne.
And certainly, Mark, it's not like only a few people here have expressed more interest in a G5 version of the Pegasos. Mr. Buck linked to an explanation of why they are pursuing this line--very lackluster response to Pegasos 2. And a larger demand for a Pegasos 3, I'm assuming with something other than a run-down G4 as the CPU.
I must admit, though, I have a hard time grasping this concept:
Just remember we are trying to eliminate CPU speed from the marketing discussion/buying decision. The issue is what WORK (activity exerted through power or faculty applied to perform a task) can be accomplished in the time allotted -- not how fast we ran to accomplish the work!
What work we can accomplish in the time allotted. Versus how fast we ran to accomplish the work.
Would it not seem, from a requirements point of view, that needing X amount of work done in Y amount of time would require at least Z speed? If Pegasos or Pegasos 2 do not supply at least Z speed, should you settle for less work done in the allotted time?
Why are you trying to eliminate CPU speed from the buying decision and marketing aspect? Amount of work done in a set amount of time is intimately tied to the speed of a system.
I guess you're trying to turn expectations on their head, i.e. getting people to look at it from an end-product perspective (you got something done, aren't you happy?). But it seems that most people tend to look at things in a "how fast can I get this done so I can move on to other things" perspective (you got something done in half the time it would have taken you if you had used a competing product, aren't you happy?)
Next thing we know, the Pegasos will come with PR ratings like the Athlons. You know, to take speed out of the equation.
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Ah, and to compare with the x86 world--their products haven't had such a leap in development through time. As in, they didn't get stalled at one FSB or MHz rating for a few YEARS.
Thus, going from a 3 GHz P4 with a 400 MHz FSB to one with an 800 MHz FSB isn't as big of a leap as, say, going from a 100 MHz FSB G3 at 600 MHz to a 1.2 GHz G5 with a 600 MHz FSB. Same thing with AMD's offerings, even they are at a 400 MHz FSB with their next product offering 800 MHz.
And before someone jumps on my back, yes, I've simplified it. Instead of saying the Athlon uses a 200 MHz DDR FSB for an effective rate of 400 MHz and the Athlon64 uses a hypertransport link with an effective bandwidth different from what you'd expect with an 800 MHz signal, blah blah plus it integrates the memory controller on-die, blah blah P4 uses double pumped FSB, etc. Hopefully that will head criticizms that I'm mistaken on the technical details off at the pass. Remember: I simplified only to get the point across and for readability. I could throw in technically exact details into this post and the one above but it would make the long-ass posts even LESS readable.
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It'll be interesting to see what chipset BBRV will be using with the PPC 970. Mainly because the frontside bus is designed by Apple! So, if you want to use the high speed bus, you have to get either a chipset from apple, or a licence from apple.
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well full mark for moving ahead inspite of production
nightmares!!
how ever I do see a potential for miss-hap (although
I hope not)
you must be very confident to anounce the peg3
BEFORE the peg2 is out (corect me if wrong)
Is the peg2 simply a bug fixed mobo update?
My point is that you should not look like the vapore
claims you point at.
-Panthro
PS you should be proud of your northbridge testing
PPS I'm always good just no everybody likes it
;-)
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It'll be interesting to see what chipset BBRV will be using with the PPC 970. Mainly because the frontside bus is designed by Apple! So, if you want to use the high speed bus, you have to get either a chipset from apple, or a licence from apple.
http://www.arstechnica.com/cpu/03q2/ppc970-interview/ppc970-interview-2.html
Hannibal: You guys worked with Apple on the supporting logic--the chipset--for this thing, right? Or is this something that you did that is going into Apple boxes?
Peter Sandon: The chipset is an Apple design, and we're fabbing it.
Hannibal: So what are you guys using in the blades, then--the 970 blades? A chipset of your own design?
Peter Sandon: I haven't kept up with what we've announced about that, so I guess I don't know.
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So maybe IBM will have their own chipset solution, as well. Then again perhaps a 3rd party will magically make yet another solution, too. I think that's an issue that's more of a "wait and see" kind of thing. There's just not enough info at this point.