Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: The_Editor on July 19, 2003, 02:20:45 PM
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Excerpt from Amiga.Com
Regrettably, my plans have changed and I will not be attending AmiWest this year. I have informed the organizers of AmiWest and they were very understanding. However, in my absence, Amiga will be well-represented at the event.
Link (http://www.amiga.com/corporate/071903-mcewen.shtml)
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Why am I not surprised.
And can someone take out the slight in his name from the topic? I want serious news, not the coy snide remarks slipped in.
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Please do NOT take off your peril-sensitive sunglasses, don't panic!
5...4...3...2...1...
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
But Jeri will be there (wooohooo!) :-D
nevermind, carry on...
I can't make it either. :-( Can someone bring back some OS4 screenshots? Damn, I really wanted to go!
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Whee, what a surprise that was!!!
I love how he says it's the first showing of AmigaOS 4.x for the world even though it's been on tour in Europe for the past 6 weeks :)
Ah, to be as out-of-touch as he is, it'd be so much less stressful :)
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And can someone take out the slight in his name from the topic? I want serious news, not the coy snide remarks slipped in.
Thank you for pointing this out, it has been fixed. I missed it this morning, I still havn't had my coffee:-)
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heh, I didn't even see that.
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Let's be totally honest - did anyone ever think for a second he would turn up, anyone at all?
Just shows that AInc is a farce, that's all. Even the name followers will have to see this by now.
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Not really suprised- just remember that the announcement that he WOULD be there was only the return salvo
in the Garry Hare-fuzzy-business-card debacle.
Amiga Inc being well represented, however?
Now that would suprise the hell out of me.
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@huronking
IIRC the attitude was "if Bill doesn't show up at AmiWest, then he's not CEO." So guess that question was answered.
Would the real CEO please stand up....
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Poster: downix Date: 2003/7/19 9:57:12
Don't you find it kinda odd that this announcement was after this Paypal (http://flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/88439.shtml) thread on MooBunny?
Dammy
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I love how he says it's the first showing of AmigaOS 4.x for the world even though it's been on tour in Europe for the past 6 weeks :)
Maybe you should go back and read what he said again, as you obviously misquoted what he said.
from Bill McEwen
This is another opportunity for the the Amiga community and the rest of the world to see AmigaOS 4.0 demonstrated for the first time.
Note the word "ANOTHER" and "REST OF THE WORLD". Remember, there are plenty of people who have not seen it for the first time yet.
As for the rest of you... I'm not surprised at all the trolling that's coming from the usual Genesi crew. You all know full well he has a court date to attend and that is mandatory. It's been talked to death already in other threads.
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As for the rest of you... I'm not surprised at all the trolling that's coming from the usual Genesi crew. You all know full well he has a court date to attend and that is mandatory. It's been talked to death already in other threads.
Genesi crowd? Is this the stock dismisal for all Amiga Inc's failures now? :-?
You really should read more. The information is out there. This has nothing to do with Genesi or MOS users.
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Genesi crowd? Is this the stock dismisal for all Amiga Inc's failures now?
How do you call missing a show because of a court date a failure? And yes, Genesi crowd... look at every single person who jumped in to get their "kick in".
You really should read more. The information is out there.
Please, enlighten me as to what it is I should read?
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@HereWeGoAgain
What trolling? If you refer to my statement above, it was pointing out a continuation of the earlier statement. Namely, the whole "Bill going to AmiWest" thing was in responce to Garry Hare's business card and statements from Mr. Moss that led many of us to believe that Bill had, in fact, been replaced as CEO. I continued by pointing out that those on the other side of the fence claimed that when Bill did show up at AmiWest it would confirm he is still CEO. I just retorted to that very old arguement with the logical counter-arguement.
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We all know he has a court date to attend, even he does, and he knew when he said he would be at Amiwest, as did everybody else... but still every volunteer at Amiga Inc said Bill would be there unless his plans changed.
Strange how his plans changed when he knew about his court date way before making his "i will attend amiwest" statement...
But of course, I'm just a Genesi troll, not an interested guy who wants to see SOME sort of new Amiga [like] thing.
Cheers,
Navvie
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Please, enlighten me as to what it is I should read?
Wow I can't search down every single threead, but Dammy pointed out a good one.
HERE (http://flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/88439.shtml)
Things are looking very very bad for Amiga Inc by their own doing. BTW court dates are set waaaaay waaaay in the future so McBill would have known he had a court date when he announced he would be at Amiwest. He knew he couldn't be there, he was just spreading FUD.
-Edit-
BTW from everything being said by MANY sources McBill won't even be at the court date, he is said to be in hiding from process servers among other things. THIS is just speculation on my part, but lately ALL of the speculation has turned out to be true, so....
-Edit #2-
Before you claim I am spreading FUD because I bought a Genesi product, keep in mind I am traveling from Florida to California next week, and I bought a banquet ticket. I was actually looking foward to what he had to say.
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Downix please shut up. If your post are only intended to attack amiga inc/eyetech.
Genesi USA? ........... :lol:
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This is so hillarious. It's just like watching the Britneyfans vs. the Aguilerafans having a showdown. I love it. Hillarious, yes, that was the word! :-D
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@ikir
Don't give none, don't get none.
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If you refer to my statement above, it was pointing out a continuation of the earlier statement. Namely, the whole "Bill going to AmiWest" thing was in responce to Garry Hare's business card and statements from Mr. Moss that led many of us to believe that Bill had, in fact, been replaced as CEO.
Well, I must have missed that one, because I never saw any post where Fleecy gave an answer that indicated Bill had been replaced.
And about "what trolling?", if you cannot see that from statements like "even the name followers", etc...
You know what, forget it... this site is not even worth me wasting my time with anymore....sad that it's turn into the degraded state that it has.
Wayne, feel free to delete my account.
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Ok... for the record, I'm not a Genesi dude. I frankly
know nothing about their platform, other than they
compete for the same market as Ainc. (Which is
about the size of the 8-track tape market- maybe smaller.)
To explain myself for the record I am just a run-of-the-mill
disillusioned Amigan who has listened to the lies
since 1989. I have the old A500 and box of
"Amigaworld" magazines to prove it.
Genesi has nothing to do with the fact that I'm pissed
about the $50 I sent a year ago for AInc's club crusade and got nothing in return. If they deliver,
I will buy- but until that time, I paid for the right to
complain about their shennanigans to my heart's
content.
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@HereWeGoAgain
I tend to overlook KennyR's stuff, honestly, so I didn't even notice that snipe earlier. As a result, I assumed, incorrectly, you were intending that toards me. Sorry about that.
And the statements from Mr. Moss are the reference to Mr. Hare working for the investors in some capacity. Anyone with corporate knowledge will know that the primary members of a company to work directly for the investors are the Chairman and CEO positions, so it gave some weight to the arguement.
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You know what, forget it... this site is not even worth me wasting my time with anymore....
So you want to shoot the messanger because you don't like the message?
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The neverendiiiiiiiiing stoooooooooooory... lalala lalala lalala...
It's extremely comfy to just sit back and wait. Or, correction, not actually WAIT... more like thinking "when something happens it happens, and if I am interested then I am interested then".
So far I am not interested. Neither in Pegasos nor AMiGA One. Too much money involed. Maybe Pegasos 2 will change that. Maybe not. Maybe the release of the 970 will lower the G4-prices and thus making the A1 cheaper. Maybe not. Maybe AMiGA OS 4 will be kicking arse. Maybe not. Maybe AMiGA Inc. is going down. Maybe not. Maybe people, the followers, are being of the edge of exploding due to the tension and thus making the reason for the trolling very apparent. Maybe not.
Until anything concrete: *yawn*
Oh, let me repeat that: *yawn*
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@redrumloa:
So you want to shoot the messanger because you don't like the message?
Oh, he's obviously just a blind zealot who likes to be lied to and therefore decided to head for AmigaINCworld.net - right?
I wonder what has to happen until the aorg team realizes that something is wrong here (I'm not just talking about this particular thread).
Amiga Inc. suck. But most of us don't visit websites to watch brainless trolls, MorphOS developers (Neko) or Genesi employees (downix) stating the obvious over and over again.
I think Mike Bouma is the most annoying propagandist left in this scene and I don't trust him that -><- much when it comes to moderating other people's postings. Yet the only thing that still makes me prefer amiga.org over amigaworld.net is the bigger amount of visitors.
But what the heck - I guess I'm just an Amiga Inc. fanboy, right?
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This is fuc*ing amazing... Then the announcement of coming to amiwest was probably just some stunt to remove the rumours of gary being new ceo....
How can they do this?
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Let's be totally honest - did anyone ever think for a second he would turn up, anyone at all?
Did not really believe it, but really hoped he was.
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Oh, he's obviously just a blind zealot who likes to be lied to and therefore decided to head for AmigaINCworld.net - right?
But what the heck - I guess I'm just an Amiga Inc. fanboy, right?
Please don't put words in my mouth.
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*YAWN*
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What has always amazed me is the passion that some MorpOs users have for AmigaInc. Amazing ! :-)
About the news, no surprise there. What would AmigaInc be doing at Amiwest anyway? The poor lads probably don't even have money to buy a plane ticket.
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Let's be totally honest - did anyone ever think for a second he would turn up, anyone at all?
Me for one. To be honest, I still don't know what to think about the CEO dispute. And I thought Bill McEwen and Bill Buck (althought most of the nasty statements were made by trolls in the original ann thread, not by BB himself) meeting at AmiWest will result in a more than interesting conversation.
Fleecy told us when the Q/A started they are sorry about those unrealistic announcements, and they will not make new ones. I've deleted my account on amigaworld.net a month or two before now, the bias and hatred was hardly bearable.
The opposite starts to build up here as well, but those complaining forget the reasons, and blame the effect itself. Well, I say: they DESERVED it.
What else to say? *shrugs*
I don't dare to say, that I understand the process, as I'm less and less interested in whatever Amiga Inc has to say, but there always be people who will back them up whatever comes, just for their belief's sake. And hate everyone who criticizes the subject of their religion.
(There are hair raising statements coming from both sides, for those believing me a Genesi fanatic. And it seems I might be involved in OS4 as well to some degree. So have a good day, and finish blaming Genesi and their little army (Mike B's own makeup) for everything.)
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OS4 on Tour was a preview. I expect a much more finished product now (default look set in stone, plenty of devices and progs ported to ppc)
Personally, I couldn't care less where Bill McEwen shows up, and I find it ironic that those who care most about it is those who has already bought a Pegasos and should really not be affected in any way...
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We are speaking about Amiga Inc CEO here. I find it interesting, how ppl blur or sharpen the differences between the Amiga, Amiga Inc, and the creation of OS4 as their agenda dictates.
Bill McEwen has little to do with the creation of OS4 except some da*n unrealistic announcements of it's release date, which we still don't know that these were his own makeups or suggested by Hyperion.
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I have to laugh. One gets called a brainless troll if one criticises a company that has done everything to deserve such criticism. Seems to me the brainless ones are not the critics, but the foaming-mouthed apologists that queue up to defend AInc when as every lie, sham and revelation of its incompetence is open for everyone to see.
And the big irony is, by protecting AInc the apologists are perpetuating their damage on the platform they like so much - the Amiga.
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But on the other hand... not talking about anyone in particular here... there is a big difference between criticism and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. I do often tend to see more of the latter on forums of the like...
I mean, noone gets anything concrete out of being called, or calling someone, a brainless moron. Noone gets anything out of talking negatively about someone or something which he/she doesn't know jack about. But to point out mistakes, talk in sense of "oneself" and being open for discussion and also keeping in mind to hold the discussion on a, so called, mature level, that is far more constructive than jumping names, flaming or whatever the like.
And this I do not point out to lecture anyone, I simply point it out since I do feel that it needs to be said every once in a while (even though it is obvious).
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We are speaking about Amiga Inc CEO here. I find it interesting, how ppl blur or sharpen the differences between the Amiga, Amiga Inc, and the creation of OS4 as their agenda dictates.
Yes, very true.... And, in fact... (I probably shouldn't say this, but what the heck??) Most of the people who want Amiga Inc to die aren't necessarily fans of any other platform... They just recognize Amiga Inc as a cancer that the rest of the Amiga market can't support.
How can I say this? Well look at it. What has Amiga Inc done. Designed hardware? nope. Designed Software? nope. Written some documentation? nope. They've at least done some marketing, right? not really....* (They hob-nobbed with a few people about Amiga Anywhere, but that's about it.) Yet Amiga Inc are poised to try to take a cut of whatever (miniscule) revenue Hyperion can manage to take in.
If Amiga Inc managed to fall out of the scene, Hyperion may almost be able to make enough money to avoid their OWN bankruptcy over this ordeal. (Maybe. I wouldn't guarantee it.) But Amiga Inc is sticking around and flapping it's jaws like the Black Knight, or something. (Come back here! I'm not dead, yet!) Amiga Inc is mortally wounded. Anyone who doesn't believe that just hasn't had their eyes open. The CEO situation is the final proof anyone should need. The scans of all the lawsuits stacked up... There's no way out of it. The quicker they keel over and drop off, the quicker other things may start happening, perhaps even for the better.
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Bill McEwen not appearing at AMIwest
Oh! I thought something interesting had happened for a minute. :roll:
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@KennyR:
One gets called a brainless troll if one criticises a company that has done everything to deserve such criticism.
I wonder what describing people as "Name followers" or "foaming-mouthed apologists" has to do with critisizing a company?
but the foaming-mouthed apologists that queue up to defend AInc when as every lie, sham and revelation of its incompetence is open for everyone to see.
Which part of "Amiga Inc suck" didn't you understand?
@redrumloa:
It was not my intention to put words in your mouth. I was just exaggerating to achieve a dramatic effect.
However, each time somebody declares to leave Amiga.org, the moderators regret that "he has fallen for MikeB's propaganda", "it's sad to see him head for Amigaworld.net - given the agenda at play there" or "he shouldn't shoot the messenger, if he doesn't like the message".
Whatever way you word it, it always implies that the guy leaving is at fault, because he has been fooled into something.
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He didn't sign with CEO. Just a mistake or someone else is the CEO.
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I wonder what describing people as "Name followers" or "foaming-mouthed apologists" has to do with critisizing a company?
The connection is simple. Go to Amigaworld.net and start an account. Start a new thread with the title "Why you should think twice about Amiga Inc." with some very mild accusations. Then sit back and watch the foam fly.
Which part of "Amiga Inc suck" didn't you understand?
I don't understand your point. You say they suck, then say you'd rather not hear them criticised, although you have the ability to stay out of these kind of boring troll threads if you choose to exercise it.
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i dont know what to think about this, but it aint making me like pegasos more anyway.
wars and disputes has been a trademark of AMIGA users , and now its a genesi/pegasos trademark..
bad #### is beeing told, then it affect both parties... if it wont end...both will die...
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*SIGH*
:-(
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*YAWN*
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lempkee, you're blaming the symptom. Look for the cause. Not everyone who thinks AInc have had their shot and blew it wants you to buy a Pegasos. ;-) Hell, I still thought that when I was going for the A1 and OS4.
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@KennyR:
The connection is simple. Go to Amigaworld.net and start an account. Start a new thread with the title "Why you should think twice about Amiga Inc." with some very mild accusations. Then sit back and watch the foam fly.
And what his this got to do with this thread? The topic is "Bill McEwen will not attend AmiWest". Way before the first "fanboy" has contributed to this discussion, you feelt the need to insult a whole group of people in advance. That's just annoying.
And note that I did not defend Amigaworld.net (in fact, I attacked Mike Bouma personally), I just stated that I tend to find its "extremely harmless" nature to be less annoying than some of things happening here recently.
I don't understand your point. You say they suck, then say you'd rather not hear them criticised,
I did not say that I don't want to hear them criticised. I'd love to have a sensible discussion about the matter, but certainly not with a Genesi employee that feels the need to accuse a french Amiga user of software piracy (just because he released the OS4 presentation on the web), certainly not with individuals that start the discussion by insulting a large portion of the readers in advance, and certainly not with a MorphOS developer who gets kicked from #morphos because of lack of good manners.
Besides, I was not talking about just this thread, but Amiga.org as a whole.
although you have the ability to stay out of these kind of boring troll threads if you choose to exercise it.
And that's my whole point: People (e.g. Herewegoagain) choose to stay out of all this - and the response is "don't shoot the messenger, if you don't like the message" or "he now belongs to the foaming-mouthed apologists".
I was just trying to point out that people may have valid reasons to abandon Amiga.org. Not every amigaworld.net reader belongs to the MikeB cult.
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@Neko
Methinks you need your glasses checked there, friend. He did not say "first showing" he said "another chance to see," which asserts that there was already a previous viewing.
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"Personally, I couldn't care less where Bill McEwen shows up, and I find it ironic that those who care most about it is those who has already bought a Pegasos and should really not be affected in any way..."
Exactly my thoughts. Whata f*ck has their financial problems to do with the attacks that are being made, it's ilke blaming them of having problems cause they want to. Some MOS users call people that don't like the sh*t they spread "blind zealots" but you don't see that yourselves are being used too. Sure, you're a customer of a product and you say you're satisfied. So why da hell do you have to be whining about stuff you don't know about (which is almost say 80% of cases?).
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@KennyR
"The connection is simple. Go to Amigaworld.net and start an account. Start a new thread with the title "Why you should think twice about Amiga Inc." with some very mild accusations. Then sit back and watch the foam fly."
Been there. Done that. Nothing of what you said happenned. It problably happenend with some people that spread all kinds of FUD and they got there with the same nick. It was at least suspicious what they were trying to do.
"Quote:
Which part of "Amiga Inc suck" didn't you understand?
I don't understand your point. You say they suck, then say you'd rather not hear them criticised, although you have the ability to stay out of these kind of boring troll threads if you choose to exercise it."
So let's see, if Genesi starts having financial problems you guys are just gonna back stabb on them as much as you can? I now I wouldn't. Sure , AmigaDE has nothing to do with AmigaOS, but what's the problem with that? I think if some other company was using "the name" for anything else you woudn't be attacking them. You're just attacking them cause you've been induced to do so. Maybe they shouldn't have licensed others to do AmigaOSPPC and just let it die. You would be more happy them? It's amazing some people even attack Eyetech or Hyperion cause they are related to AInc. All because some other company also has a product?. I don't like much thing about AINc. They announced AOS dead in the beginnnig if you remmeber. But the level some of you take things here is, to say the least not healthy ....
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@dammy
Please tell me it is you that is running around making these claims about me.. I'd love it if you were the one that I have served when I find out the name of the original poster.
Of this I am serious, as this is something you DO NOT accuse someone of without some proof other than the brainchild of a wild night of fantasia.
So, for the people who really want the truth, know me and know my word:
1. Amiga Inc. owns the Amiga paypal account
2. I do not have access to withdraw or deposit from/to the Amiga paypal account, other than make purchses as a regular customer if I so choose to buy products.
3. The email address of the paypal account is paypal@amiga.com as anyone who has paid via paypal knows.
4. Yes, I have access to view paypal transactions, as one in my position must have in order to grant access to Club Amiga Membership, features and electronic downloads, etc.
5. I have my own paypal account ray@codemain.com if anyone needs to send me money, which is also the same account used to collect transaction monies for my wife's business at http://www.makecrafts.com
There you have it, if you want to start a lawsuit, bring it on, I'd be most willing to attend with my lawyer and countersue with additional claims for court costs and damages.
So, dammy, shut your fat trap and stop propagating this slander or get yourself a lawyer and bring it into a courtroom where I'll be glad to sue your ass in a countersuit. This paypal crap is pure bullshit to put more fear into people who support Amiga. Well, here's a clue for you, you aren't going to do it any my expense and get away with it. And that, you poor misdirected soul, is one of those promises that you people insist that Amiga makes and breaks. Unfortunately for you, this is a personal promise from me, not Amiga Inc, and one on which you can bank.
Onlookers, please excuse the tone here but this just must stop.
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Personally, I find it amusing that I can call Amiga Inc a cancer, and no one bothers to defend them... Yet anyone who laughs at the thought of Bill McEwen hiding from lawsuits and skipping a convention he personally assured everyone he'd be at (as CEO, no less!)... is obviously a MorphOS fanboy.
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@Markus Biehler
He didn't sign with CEO. Just a mistake or someone else is the CEO.
That was my accidental omission, that got lost in the transcription and has since been corrected. The signature as it exists now, is the signature in the original document I received from Bill McEwen.
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So let's see, if Genesi starts having financial problems you guys are just gonna back stabb on them as much as you can?
Stop there. If they had financial problems, no, nobody reasonable would suddenly pile on top. But no reasonable people did that with AInc after the DE flopped either. I didn't. But if Genesi pulled the same kind of sh1t AInc have done over the years since, then I would - a lot. I owe no loyalty to Genesi and will criticise them without hesitation when they deserve it. I would hope that most other people would do the same. I would be a fool to think Genesi's aims were convergent with my own.
So I'm not attacking AInc because I've been 'induced to say so'. I criticised both AInc and Genesi a lot in the past, when I was determined to get an A1 and to hell with the Pegasos. I attacked AInc then because they are harming the Amiga, and I still do now.
PS: I have never, to my knowledge, attacked Hyperion or Eyetech. At least they are actually providing a product.
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@KennyR
Harming?? So, what are these wild suppositions of unproven crimes? Please refer to the paypal bullshit - which WOULD be a crime if it were true. This is slander, since it is baseless and ficticious and directly harms my character.
Is this little game having the opposite effect? Is this helping the cause of Amiga detractors? No, all it is doing is feeding Woods' fantasies and those of his small group of followers in the never-ending soap opera of "let's create a scenario and see if it sticks."
All that is doing is making the normal, realistic people out there see that the people that make and propagate these outrageous claims are a bunch of stark raving lunatics. I agree with them, these people are sad, depressed trolls with no lives of their own so they try to destroy others'.
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Poster: HMetal Date: 2003/7/19 14:20:57
Please tell me it is you that is running around making these claims about me.. I'd love it if you were the one that I have served when I find out the name of the original poster.
Of this I am serious, as this is something you DO NOT accuse someone of without some proof other than the brainchild of a wild night of fantasia.
Hmetal, it's not me. If it was, I would put my name behind it.
There you have it, if you want to start a lawsuit, bring it on, I'd be most willing to attend with my lawyer and countersue with additional claims for court costs and damages.
It's NOT me so you may apologize to ME now.
So, dammy, shut your fat trap and stop propagating this slander or get yourself a lawyer and bring it into a courtroom where I'll be glad to sue your ass in a countersuit. This paypal crap is pure bullshit to put more fear into people who support Amiga. Well, here's a clue for you, you aren't going to do it any my expense and get away with it. And that, you poor misdirected soul, is one of those promises that you people insist that Amiga makes and breaks. Unfortunately for you, this is a personal promise from me, not Amiga Inc, and one on which you can bank.
So you may stop the libel of my character any time, but you love to rant away so I doubt you can control yourself. Perhaps I may have to find Todd and apologize to him. I'm starting to see what he had to put up with. I may have completely misjudged the man.
Dammy
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"I attacked AInc then because they are harming the Amiga, and I still do now. "
I don't trust all that SG (second generation) stuff they talk about for AmigaOS too. But hell if they are almost going bankrupt how can they do anything? I don' think they are harming anything, they're just not doing much for the classic stuff, wich is what most of the fans stick to IMHO.
But at least they licensed others to continue it.
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*LOL*
This is just getting worse and worse. Never ever have I seen such kindergarden behaviour. The language is just getting worse and worse, and people are saying more and more rude stuff to each other. Higly amusing!
But then again...
*YAWN*
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Harming?? So, what are these wild suppositions of unproven crimes?
That is best left to the hordes of lawyers and debtors currently running around after AInc.
I agree with them, these people are sad, depressed trolls with no lives of their own so they try to destroy others'.
Then again, they could just be people who are sick fed up of Amiga Inc's apathy, incompetence, cynical delaying tactics, empty words and general bullsh1t.
Today's announcement is typical grade A 100% Amiga Inc.
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MetalH wrote:
Harming??
I think that it's fair to say that Amiga, Inc. are harming the Amiga.
It's not so much about what they do, as what they don't do:
* Putting out a new Amiga platform.
* Coming to shows.
* Putting a stop to community FUD.
Of all the above, they have done none.
Amiga, Inc. have had the Amiga IP for several years, yet Amiga G2 is several months from completion.
It's been so long since they attended a show, either a general IT trade show or an Amiga one, that I've forgotten whether they've ever gone to one.
There is always fear, uncertainty and doubt about Amiga, Inc. and the Amiga itself. Amiga, Inc. has not only contributed to this F.U.D. at times, their current strategy is to stay tight as a clam, which makes us even more insecure. What is Amiga, Inc. doing, where do they live, do they even exist? These questions have been beaten to death, without any serious effort from Amiga, Inc. to clear our doubts.
Now, this Bill McEwen fellow says that he won't be able to attend AmiWest, despite having said so two months ago. OTOH, he promises that Amiga, Inc. will be well-represented at the show. Since this is coming from the pen of someone who says himself that he is the boss, the word "well-represented", in the context of his abscene, must be interpreted as meaning that one or more of his subordinate bosses will be there. Who will come, from Amiga, Inc.? Fleecy is the only Amiga, Inc. name I know, and he works with the technological side, while still holding a boss position, so his presence at the show would probably be appreciated.
Now, who will be at AmiWest to act as a stand-in for McEwen? Will it be Fleecy? Will it be you, anonymous Amiga employee, and if so, does your attending of the show really carry the notion of a well-represented Amiga, Inc, seeing as we were expecting the big boss? I think, that for each step you go down into the hierarchy from McEwen, you'll have to increase the man count by at least one in order to account for the decrease in pondus.
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KennyR:
So I'm not attacking AInc because I've been 'induced to say so'. I criticised both AInc and Genesi a lot in the past, when I was determined to get an A1 and to hell with the Pegasos. I attacked AInc then because they are harming the Amiga, and I still do now.
PS: I have never, to my knowledge, attacked Hyperion or Eyetech. At least they are actually providing a product.
(This reply isn't totally directed at KennyR. but what he said sparked a few braincells and this is the result.)
Why attack anyone? What do you get out of it?
I think the point that is being made here is that criticism is fine, and Amiga Inc deserve it. But what is going on here is a little more than criticism. In some cases it's plain rude and uncivil.
Looking through the forum I see every Amiga Inc related thread (and a lot of the others) full of people (including KennyR and others present here) attacking Amiga Inc. Most of the people doing this are pegasos owners and genesi supporters. So no surprise some folk may reason there is an agenda behind the crap.
Old arguments are dug up over and over and it's boring. Do you really think everyone would forget about Amiga Inc's wrong doings if you didn't keep reminding us?
The most annoying thing is that among all the rubbish on this site there are some intelligent and rational things being said that I am interested to read, but it's getting harder and harder to find. Some people are giving up and going elsewhere. What do you expect?
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Well said zudobug.
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Actually, if I were AMiGA Inc. I wouldn't bother about coming to the boards and trying to stop the FUD. It may be that lack of information and updates starts rumours... or "FUD"... or whatever the like... and it may be that AMiGA Inc. themselves have made some very illogical statements or whatever (I'm not into it, can't say anything about it), but in the end... the ones talking "FUD" or starting rumours, why should they be "updated with the truth", since they are the ones that "mainly" helps spreading the "FUD" and the "rumours".
It's a little bit like "hell, yeah, let's talk bullshit about the king and the queen, because then they have an OBLIGATION to dement what is said". It doesn't really work that way.
I'm still so utterly fascinated by this thread... this is actually a first for me, being able to see it all... and man, this is way more interesting than whatever the AMiGA One or the Pegasos may bring in the near future...
...but then again...
*YAWN*
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@zudobug
I think the point that is being made here is that criticism is fine, and Amiga Inc deserve it. But what is going on here is a little more than criticism. In some cases it's plain rude and uncivil.
I've tried to remain at least an angry-civil; I'm not going to lower myself to the level of personal insults like others here. And I won't start throwing wild accusations about like the paypal stuff I know nothing about. What I have (vaguely) cited as AInc's failings is hardly controversial: its common knowledge and only the most shortsighted or stubborn can refuse to acknowledge it. Yet they do. And they do it a lot. And before you know it there is a tide of totally misplaced optimism that always crashes and burns in the worst possible way, and at the end thousands of good people just decide to give up and go to another platform. This happens again and again and again so often it's heartbreaking. It's happened since '94.
The irony is, that when when anyone tries step in to try to remind people about how misplaced their trust is, they get called FUD spreaders and trolls. It's as if its some kind of defensive mechanism that acts in leiu of any reason or common sense. They can't properly defend AInc because they have become indefensible, so they use excuses and counter-accusations instead. There is nothing wrong with criticism as long as it is not just FUD - even if it is old arguments. I reiterate that people who are fed up of hearing about this should just stay out of these threads. Seriously. I think saying that it is boring or stupid to criticise is just one of the forms of defensiveness I outlined above. It's the only way to support AInc and still look semi-credible. And that goes for *YAWN* guy too. If he's so tired he should go to bed.
Most of the people doing this are pegasos owners and genesi supporters. So no surprise some folk may reason there is an agenda behind the crap.
Admittedly this is true. Many of these people picked their side years ago. But many were blonde cheerleaders like myself who just turned sour in the face of yet more broken promises. Many of those kind of people love Amigas for what they are and what they were, and its no real surprise that many went to MOS. MOS is the closest thing to the real Amiga experience you can get in the current day. And Genesi have spent lots of money and time and effort recruiting people - something AInc have never done and never will. Another good thing about the 'Genesi crowd' is that they keep it real - they don't think that their OS will save the Amiga and make it popular again or other such deluded nonsense.
Old arguments are dug up over and over and it's boring. Do you really think everyone would forget about Amiga Inc's wrong doings if you didn't keep reminding us?
I know you won't forget, as most other intelligent people won't. But I can say that some others have either very short memories or they are very forgiving. Or they really are blind to what's going on, intellectually revolting as this may be. It's hard not to comment when you see yet more AInc bull and people swallowing it up like good little zealots or apologising for massive AInc blunders or coverups. My personal bugbear is when people think AInc are beyond any kind of reproach just because they have the name. Most of these people wouldn't care if I insulted Microsoft in the same way - my avatar pees on them and I've had no complaints of being a troll yet for that!
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@KennyR
They can't properly defend AInc because they have become indefensible, so they use excuses and counter-accusations instead.
I think saying that it is boring or stupid to criticise is just one of the forms of defensiveness I outlined above. And that goes for *YAWN* guy too.
Yet it is funny you mention me at all, even drawing me INTO the discussion, even though I haven't said A THING about anything concerned the REAL issue this thread is dealing with. It's impressive how you've managed to get me involved, even without me having made one single statement in this issue (besides not really bothering at all, but anything but the behaviour of the people involved in the discussion).
Or did I misread your post? Have you not placed me in the "I defend AInc"-category? Are you just tired of me making comment on peoples behaviour on the board?
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Or did I misread your post? Have you not placed me in the "I defend AInc"-category?
Then I must have you wrong. What exactly is your reason to come into discussions you're not interested in and print *YAWN* a lot? Or if you're fascinated, why not join in?
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@KennyR
The irony is, that when when anyone tries step in to try to remind people about how misplaced their trust is, they get called FUD spreaders and trolls.
However good your intentions may be, have you considered the option that these people know the same facts and came to another conclusion how unlikely that other conclusion can be in your eyes ?
I'm neithe pro Amiga Inc or Pro Genesi.. I dislike both to be honest, tho at least Bill and Rachel come in the forums, something I regret the other Bill doesn't (Fleecy seems to come sometimes tho).. Wheter IU will buy a new Amiga or a Peg.. If I could I would buy both, as of now, the BS both sides spew just don't make it worth the risk (IE will either of them be around next year)
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@KennyR
My reason is that I find constructive criticism being one thing, criticism another.
Also, I find it strange that people can't use proper language on the board, behaving, not calling people names, not flaming.
Furthermore, I find it my legal right to comment on this behaviour, yawning just to point out how ridicilously low I think the discussions are running (not talking about the unquestionable facts, but the way of having the discussion).
So, that is my reason for yawning. To make a statement, but apparently not regarding the newsposts real issue.
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"Old arguments are dug up over and over and it's boring. Do you really think everyone would forget about Amiga Inc's wrong doings if you didn't keep reminding us?"
Honestly? Yes. The 'Amiga Inc. "lies"' thread is a perfect example.
Not everyone followed from day one their moves. I have, and I liked them back then, had mails with Fleecy, sent them suggestions, and I even believed in them.
What is tiring that every intentional/unintentional deception they make is a "first" for many.
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I'm neither pro Amiga Inc or Pro Genesi..
It's a good thing to base judgement on products and service rather than what you think of a companies politics when making purchasing decisions.
The majority of computer users are neither stupid nor fickle for chosing Microsoft products. They do it mainly beacause it is less trouble to go with a usable mainstream product. They do not bother about the corporate politics nor the personalities of Microsoft Corp. (Which many many people dislike btw).
I have come to the conclusion that any emotion positive or negative is wasted on any organisation in todays business climate.
If you want ethics and morals then you need to go to religious groups not financially oriented companies. Every business is out there to make money, it's as simple as that.
I find it a bit funny how these terms 'Blue Troll' & 'Red Troll' have become commonplace in forum discussions.
The most intelligent remarks I have ever seen around these forums are by Gary_C. If there were more rational people around here I would presume that there would be less flame wars.
But then again maybe if i'm neither blue nor red I run the risk of being called a 'Purple Troll'.
I can live with that ;-)
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It's a good thing to base judgement on products and service rather than what you think of a companies politics when making purchasing decisions.
I agree with this point, however, how can I expect the service to be good of a company with all this BS going around, some generated by a CEO (Or someting like that title) of one copmany while the other is.. Well.. hiding ??
How can any other copmany take either seriously ? If the current support from other parties is all there is, well, neither will survive (IMHO).. and I don't see any bigger supporters coming anytime soon, not with the current way of things.. (See below)
The majority of computer users are neither stupid nor fickle for chosing Microsoft products. They do it mainly beacause it is less trouble to go with a usable mainstream product. They do not bother about the corporate politics nor the personalities of Microsoft Corp.
Sure.. But that's indeed only because they know about it.. "Everybody" else has got one, if I buy a Windows PC now, I'm 99.99% certain it will still be supported in 3 years time..
It's getting harder and harder to know who to believe..
It's not just that I don't like the companies politics, it's the companies politics that make the future of both platforms uncertain.. I'm not going to spend 600 or more on a platform that might truly be death next summer..
For some the Amiga is a Hobby, for me, it WAS my only choice for a Computer untill the death of my A4000.. I didn't buy a new one cause a new Amiga was just around the corner and I didn't have the money to buy an A4000 and later a next gen Amiga.. I bought a second hand PC (Real cheap, but more powerfull then an A4000/060/PPC/CVPPC) and waited like so many... Only to be dragged into the FUD WARS..
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@Seer
I hear you.
I am sure there are many of us concerned about the long term future of our chosen platform.
It is ironic that things look the bleakest at a time when most options have actually materialised.
As Amigans we should be used to the rollercoaster ride by now :-P ;-)
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As Amigans we should be used to the rollercoaster ride by now :-P ;-)
I'm getting to old for rollercoasters... :-o ;-)
Still, I waited for a long time.. I survived the Amiga vs Atari wars, the Amiga vs the Console wars.. I might just survive the "Fud Wars".. I guess I can wait another year to see who will survive..
The Amiga is death ! Long live its succesor ! (Be it AmigaONE/OS4, Pegasos/Morphos1/x86/AROS)
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What, only 70 comments?
:-)
Does this mean that there wont be anymore ask Fleecy at the amiga inc cheerleader site? :lol:
I like I care.
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@Dammy
I am man enough and will apologize to you, if I am incorrect. I will consider this forgotten when you apologize to me for propagating the original post and refrain from further propagation and refrain from continuing the crusade about this paypal account nonsense, which I have flatly and firmly denied from day one, and am fully prepared to back my claims up in a court of law.
The reason I ask for the apology is because if you were not propagating it, then it would forever remain in the post on that "other" site where the majority of lunatics hang out and not on what I hoped would resume to be a normal Amiga community website, and I mean community both in the "red" and the "blue" sense.
If this continues here on amiga.org then it once again becomes "YAHFLA" (yet another haven for lunatic accusations). This is an image Wayne and his moderators were getting away from and I, for one, would like to see it remain free from nutjob accusations. I'm sure the sensible members of both the "red" and "blue" sides would agree with me on this.
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I'm staying outta this one, its gotten to personal and to weird...I dont like Amiga.inc but I'm not about to get personally offensive over it....
(I know this may sound stupid BUT) did you try the guys email off MooBunny HMetal? it may be a legit email... if so... you can figure out who he is maybe...
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@KennyR
"The irony is, that when when anyone tries step in to try to remind people about how misplaced their trust is, they get called FUD spreaders and trolls. It's as if its some kind of defensive mechanism that acts in leiu of any reason or common sense. "
I don't think the majority of people has the Amiga as their life saviour as you're painting. It's just a platform that they like. If it goes wrong well, shame. What you're calling "defensive" is just the reaction of some exagerated posts, that are not just talking about the apparent situation at AInc., as you know. Generally speaking of course.
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@meershaum
Thanks for doing the right thing. I appreciate it.
Yep, his address was was the first thing I checked against our database. There isn't even a match for *nyc.gov in our database. It's a dead end unless Bill or Fleecy knows but I'll be checking with them, for sure. :-)
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I agree with everything Ilwrath said. Amiga Inc. is a cancer and it seems to be hanging around just long enough for the release of AOS4.
Which is kind of ironic when you think about it :-D
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I hope Amiga.inc pull through and get their act together to put their wrongs right once they have the funds to do so as then there is no excuse for them to not show more support once Aos4 is out on the AmigaOne.
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Zudobug is right. THIS IS AMIGA:ORG not f**k genesi.org!!!!!!!!
Genesi want to crate a new paltorm? right, don't blame us!!
I'd like pagasos and morphos but GENESI AND most Pegasos supporter are really stupid and ridiculous
iF YOU AREN'T INTERESTED IN Amiga Inc, AmigaONe, AmigaOS4, please don't post useless atack... SHUT UP
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KennyR,
Thanks for the reply, you made many interesting points. This is the sort of constructive criticism I have no qualms with reading. :-)
It's not worth me banging on about things I have already mentioned in my previous post, I think I made my point quite clearly. But I must address this:
I think saying that it is boring or stupid to criticise is just one of the forms of defensiveness I outlined above.
Of course I think you are right, criticism is fine. But I think it is boring and stupid to repeatedly attack. That's the thing I don't understand. Why attack? Are the more vocal people really so personally and emotionally involved? Why can't we keep things civil?
Also, the anti-amiga inc threads I have read contain many personal attacks aimed at and coming from amiga inc supporters/cheerleaders. If such contempt is felt between the Pro and the Anti, why try and help these people? I say let them follow their beloved name and suffer their own fate!
I am not a name follower. I'm simply a fan of the classic miggy keeping up-to-date with Amiga news. And if at some point in the future MorphOS or OS4 seems to be something I might like to own, I'll make the necessary purchases. ;-) At the moment I am playing about with AROS, which seems very cool. :-)
You suggest I (and people who feel like me) stay out of the threads that contain attacks, trolls and flames. On the surface this seems like a wise idea. But what does that leave? There are so few peaceful threads for rational discussion. And I'd miss interesting posts like these.
edit:
oh yeah...
Most of these people wouldn't care if I insulted Microsoft in the same way - my avatar pees on them and I've had no complaints of being a troll yet for that!
...And you'll get no complaints from me. ;-)
But M$ is a truely evil, dominating multi-national corporation that breaks laws and gets away with it to keep their monopoly. We should unite and bring down these bastards. But if these forums were polluted with messages like this in the same quantity as anti-amiga inc and anti-genesi comments, I think it would get annoying.
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At the moment I am playing about with AROS, which seems very cool. :-)
It is :-)
Remember to keep your snapshot fresh, lots of work has been put into it recently!!
"Just be nice to people" (Being nice is free, just like AROS) :-D
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Bill McEwen not appearing at AMIwest
Laugh it up Fuzzballs :roll:
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But M$ is a truely evil, dominating multi-national corporation that breaks laws and gets away with it to keep their monopoly. We should unite and bring down these bastards. But if these forums were polluted with messages like this in the same quantity as anti-amiga inc and anti-genesi comments, I think it would get annoying.
I agree. Fighting against each other is pointless. It is no wonder that Microsoft does so well. It is wasted energy and probably scares of potential new users of Amiga related technologies. :-o
Oh, and Kudos to the AROS team. You guys are doing great work. ;-)
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Anyone in Washington who's driving to AmiWest want to pick him up on the way? Would be an interest car drive if nothing else. ;-)
Damien