Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga.org site announcements => Topic started by: System on June 30, 2003, 09:30:32 PM
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Based on questions submitted by our visitors, Kees had the opportunity to interview Genesi SARL's Bill Buck and Raquel Velasco on the future of their company and product lines.
Read it here (http://amiga.org/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=10)
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every word of it, is a lie.
OK, I haven't read it yet, just have to be quick to be the first comment, you know.....
get back with ya later...:-)
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@Marktime,
Don't feed the trolls, even if you're hungry :) Remember, I will defend Bill the exact way I tried to defend Ben in his interview.
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Ever get that feeling of impending flames? The OS4 running on Pegasos 'effortlessly' is sure to get a few hackles up at least. :-D
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I like the answer to the question about OS4 .v. MorphOS..... heh... I can smell the gasoline... heh
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OK Wayne
well now that I've read it.....
comments: thanks Bill Buck for spending the time to give an interview to our humble community.
Looking for 'well-adjusted' developers? WOW, that describes me exactly....
hehe...ermm, ahem.....cough
Well...haven't had the chance to post as much lately, been busy......
but cannot wait for that PEG II to come out.
And I had 300 dollars in a paypal account to buy a peg1, and yes, as predicted, I waited too long, at least the dealers had already pulled their summer sale ads by the time I attempted to purchase.
Oh well....I'm nothing if not patient....looking forward to september.
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To be honest, I didn't find the interview very informative. I sort of expected more, given Genesi's frequent comments in various community forums.
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I find this really interesting:
"Two weeks ago Nolan Bushnell joined Phoenix. RJ
Mical wrote us last week about a project he and
Dave Needle are working on and how that might fit in
with what we are doing. Dave Haynie posts weekly
at Phoenix, often daily, and do not be surprised if you
see Carl around again soon."
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Please check the resellers page (http://www.pegasosppc.com/purchase.php) on pegasosppc.com (http://www.pegasosppc.com/purchase.php) as many of them still have boards available!
Damien
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Damien, I checked.
I mostly tried to read the english ones, and then I was looking for a betatester or April I.
With a very bad exchange rate from dollars to euro's, 300 dollars doesn't buy the April II board.....
Vesalia had the Pegasos summer sale board listed at 410USD, too much....don't want it.
I assume they are already out of their alotment of betatesters, or have some other reason for pulling their listing of that item, which was previously listed.
Some of the nonenglish sites, like GGS Data, appear to still have stock, but I don't read that language.
Amiga Superbit was similar to vesalia in not listing the April I or betatester configuration.
As I mentioned above, I had 300 dollars in a paypal account, so I didn't have enough to buy any board that I could actually buy...that should have gotten a betatester, maybe an April I.
But...I had initially done this in an attempt to buy a betatester board from vesalia.....
anway, didn't mean to suggest that no one could buy a board, but I am telling you, I've spent about 10 times the effort it normally takes to give someone my money, and I'm just not going to try that hard.
Still looking forward to september, and hopefully wider distribution and more normalized sales channels.....and who knows, I will probably even lay down some extra cash for a peg 2.
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A very good interview . :-)
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@ Matt_H
To be honest, I didn't find the interview very informative. I sort of expected more, given Genesi's frequent comments in various community forums.
I kind of agree. I hoped for more info regarding the Pegasos II and MorphOS 1.4, but I guess we will know a lot more shortly. They propably want to make an "event" of it, especially for the Peg2.
But I thought it was an interesting interview anyway! :-)
@ DamienMcKenna
Please check the resellers page on pegasosppc.com as many of them still have boards available!
I know at least one reseller that might update their website in a near future! :-o :-)
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RJ Mical wrote us last week about a project he and Dave Needle are working on and how that might fit in with what we are doing. Dave Haynie posts weekly at Phoenix, often daily, and do not be surprised if you see Carl around again soon.
Hypothetical question for the AInc fanboys.
If RJ Mical, Dave Haynie and Carl Sassenrath all worked on the next version of MorphOS and the Pegasos boards. What would be more "Amiga"? The AmigaOne+OS4 or the Pegasos+MorphOS? ;-)
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we already know what is more amiga(in spirit)
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Heh All the comments I expected from the people I expected them from. You guys should really change the track every now and then.
Is it me or was there a lot more on the Ben Herman's intereview? There just doesn't seem to be much here at all (including a couple of one word answers). Seeing as it took ages for the interview to happen I'm very disapointed.
I'm also a bit dissapointed that some of the better questions weren't answered, like my question about organised posting, still I was expecting it to be ignored, and I suppose my employee question was answered very consisely.
Thanks to Kees for doing the interview and hopefully future interviews will be a bit better.
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Hi Uncharted,
Post your questions here. We will answer them tomorrow.
Thanks for your interest!
Raquel and Bill :-)
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@BBRV
Seeing as you kindly offered here are my original questions again (Q2. has already been answered)
1. You announced that you were working on a Superbundle with various authors. Are you worried at all that this might impact the small market sales negatively?
2. How many employees does Genesi have working towards MOS/Pegasos?
3. Would you support AOS 4 in the same way as you do other OSes (Like AROS)?
*Controversy Alert!!!!! (Mods edit if you wish)*
4. In your emails with SamFace (as seen on ANN) you mention something at the end about many people posting on certain forums on certain threads. This could be taken that there is some kind of organised posting on forums. Is this the case or is there another explaination?
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If RJ Mical, Dave Haynie and Carl Sassenrath all worked on the next version of MorphOS and the Pegasos boards. What would be more "Amiga"? The AmigaOne+OS4 or the Pegasos+MorphOS?
OS4... Just because they worked on the original doesn't make everything they touch an Amiga, no more than having Nolan Bushnel there would make it an Atari.
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@uncharted
I hope you know that you now have the best avatar of all time.
(http://amiga.org/images/avatar/users/936.gif)
:roflmao:
PRICELESS!
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OS4... Just because they worked on the original doesn't make everything they touch an Amiga, no more than having Nolan Bushnel there would make it an Atari.
Of course not. Everybody knows that they have all moved on to their own respective projects. But they are great minds and their new projcets is probably great too, and it seems like they are interested in the Pegasos platform for their projects. Thats cool! :-)
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nah mine was better
(http://users.volja.net/habatter/animgifs/936-9.gif)
;-)
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I remember you stating that a Pegasos with a G3 would outpreform an AmigaOne with a G4. No one has reported any speed issues yet.. Can you elaborate a bit more on this?
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Of course not. Everybody knows that they have all moved on to their own respective projects. But they are great minds and their new projcets is probably great too, and it seems like they are interested in the Pegasos platform for their projects. Thats cool!
I wish them all the luck... But to be honest, those who worked on the original Amiga have been involved in several failures since...."The Atari Lynx", "3DO game console", "Rebol" (although that one is not really a failure, I don't see it burning up the industry like at first it was thought would).... I'm sure there are others. Of course, they may have had some sucesses too, you just never hear about it when things go right.
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OS4... Just because they worked on the original doesn't make everything they touch an Amiga, no more than having Nolan Bushnel there would make it an Atari.
I absolutely agree with that, but want you to extend it in every direction. To a lot of people, Carl and Dave's projects would be 10,000 times more "Amiga" than those of a truck driver, ex-marine, and guy with some sheep weird sheep fetish.
I don't say this to be trollish, or to start an argument. I say this to bring up the point that this eternal argument TOTALLY depends on your perspective.
It truly reminds me of the Red Dwarf episode where "Cat" found out he was a god to the other hats. 1/2 of which thought the hats should be red, 1/2 who thought they should be blue. My, how appropriate...
The problem is, much like us, the "cats" on Red Dwarf ended up killing each other off with holy wars.
My point? Oh yeah, I almost forgot... Relax. Realize that while we do have MULTIPLE alternatives to the Classic Amiga, there is no winning any argument against one or the other. Hell, buy both hats, or at least play with both (when the red hat is available) THEN make up your own minds. Taking such a firm stance, ready to fight to the death on a product that we haven't even seen yet is sadly laughable.
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@jahc
I'm looking for that quote now, so if I find it, I'll be glad to share it. I do not EVER recall seeing BBRV saying that the G3 would be faster than the G4. I believe this has been paraphased into myth, beyond recognizability by those with agendas.
Anyone, please feel free to share the link if I can find it, but I believe BBRV's ORIGINAL quote was something like "the Pegasos II with a G3 chip based on the new Marvell chip will be faster in a lot of ways than the G4 chip on an older Articia-based motherboard."
I am of course paraphrasing, and I desperately want to find the original quote, and I say again, I might be incorrect in what was said, but that's what *I* recall seeing him say. I remember it because my first thought was "cool!".
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I wish them all the luck... But to be honest, those who worked on the original Amiga have been involved in several failures since...."The Atari Lynx", "3DO game console", "Rebol" (although that one is not really a failure, I don't see it burning up the industry like at first it was thought would).... I'm sure there are others. Of course, they may have had some sucesses too, you just never hear about it when things go right.
Product failure != Bad product. I thought the Lynx and 3do were quite cool for their day.. They just didn't make it for one reason or another.
Same is true with the CDTV.. It pretty much flopped but it wasn't because the machine sucked.
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But to be honest, those who worked on the original Amiga have been involved in several failures since....
Yes, but so has many others too (like Fleecy and McEwan). There is nothing bad or shameful in trying and failing, and there can be thousands of reasons to failures other than personal qualities (like you insinuate). I would NOT call Nolan Bushnell, RJ Mical, Dave Haynie, Carl Sassenrath loosers if I were you (neither is Fleecy & Co after their Amiga DE flop, but while the others have moved on to new endeavours, Fleecy is still trying to answer questions about OS4 week after week which never was their product and was not part of their plan).
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I think a good question would have been to ask about the 5000 Pegasos set top boxes. I'd like more info on these. Like if they are planning on using MorphOS as the OS or something more for the embeded market. Also, price and about what time this year they are expected to ship. What sort of video connectors will they have and if they will support NTSC or PAL or both.
The seventh comment down:
http://ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1049810851&category=news&start=1&70 (http://ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1049810851&category=news&start=1&70)
AmigaGuy
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I am of course paraphrasing, and I desperately want to find the original quote, and I say again, I might be incorrect in what was said, but that's what *I* recall seeing him say.
"The quote is out there ..." ;-)
Anyway, my own recollection goes more towards jahc's version in this case. And I think it was meant something like "if you downclock/degrade different components of the system until it runs *100%* stable while the Northbridge is shoveling huge amounts of unique data criss cross between different PCI/IDE units for a looong period of time, without a single case of data corruption, then the overall system performance of a Pegasos G3 with April2 will outperform the A1 with G4".
But that's just as much speculation as yours, and my interpretation is probably wrong anyway ;-) ...
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I'm looking for that quote now, so if I find it, I'll be glad to share it. I do not EVER recall seeing BBRV saying that the G3 would be faster than the G4. I believe this has been paraphased into myth, beyond recognizability by those with agendas.
No, he definately said that on ANN a while ago. I've been trying to search for the exact quote as well, but have been unable to find it either. Btw, I dont have an agenda. :)
-Edit- This was months before the Pegasos2 was announced as well.
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The guy's abit of a name dropper isnt he?
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I FOUND IT I FOUND IT.. I *thought* they posted this before the Pegasos2 announcement, but I guess I was wrong. Ok here it is:
http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=222&page=32
The first patch that Gerald and Thomas developed works as we know, but there were still bugs. The new Articia (and Teron) is still very likely to have trouble as more problems were detected after the Aachen Show and well after the joint work Gerald did with for the new Articia in October and November with Mai. The April2 brings the Articia fully to the performance levels it claims to achieve. We have purchased the remaining worldwide supply of the old Articias and will make 400 more Pegasos main boards with the G3 CPU. Our G3 Pegasos performs better than the G4 Teron with the Articia. This will be common knowledge soon (let the others understand this on their own our word will stand as testimony to our knowledge and skill). Once produced, we will stop (we may license production of this version of the Pegasos to Plexuscom or others). These machines will easily satisfy the Amiga market and give us the machines we need to seed our developer base while Gerald and Thomas switch out the old Articia to a much more attractive alternative (details later). This could be ready by the summer. The RAM speed of the Pegasos will be as high as any offered in the market and this WILL attract considerable interest.
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Yes, but so has many others too (like Fleecy and McEwan). There is nothing bad or shameful in trying and failing, and there can be thousands of reasons to failures other than personal qualities (like you insinuate).
Let's get this one straight... I've not insinuated anything. Just replying to the comment where someone else is making insinuations about a product being "more Amiga" because these people are interested in it... that is all.
I would NOT call Nolan Bushnell, RJ Mical, Dave Haynie, Carl Sassenrath loosers if I were you
Get it right, those are YOUR words. I never once said any of them are loosers. Don't try to bait with your trolling comments. That's not what I said and you know it.
Fleecy is still trying to answer questions about OS4 week after week which never was their product and was not part of their plan).
Care to elaborate on how you know what Amiga Incs. plans for the future are?? Do you have inside info? If not, don't speculate.
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Product failure != Bad product.
Well, I don't agree with that. Beta was superior to VHS, Amiga was superior to PC and Mac.... there are surely others. That doesn't make Amiga a bad product, but it did fail as a major solution in the computing industry.
Which, of course, you just stated (in a round about way) in the last sentence.
:-)
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@jahc
Ok, I stand partially corrected, but you've answered your own question as well. :-) Since there's no way for us mere mortals to ever test the speed of an original Teron board to an April2 Pegasos, I guess we'll never know.... Doesn't really matter anyway, because as I said, he NEVER said that "a G3 is faster than a G4" (which is what most claim was said).
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Care to elaborate on how you know what Amiga Incs. plans for the future are?? Do you have inside info? If not, don't speculate.
He is talking about the change of policy towards OS 4. Back in 2000 Amiga Inc. considered the classic OS line dead and obsolete and DE was the way of the future.
Then in 2001 there was a U turn and OS4 suddenly became central to the plans as they couldn't turn DE into a desktop OS as they had planned. OS 4 has never been a in-house project at Amiga Inc. and was never planned as a future path.
This is all very well documented.
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Then in 2001 there was a U turn and OS4 suddenly became central to the plans as they couldn't turn DE into a desktop OS as they had planned. OS 4 has never been a in-house project at Amiga Inc. and was never planned as a future path.
I know that...but it is now (part of thier future plans at least as far as we know). But why beat a dead horse even more?
People need to get out of the past and look at the present and future. Quit trying to stir things from years ago... People, and companies, make mistakes...get over it and move on. (Not talking about you, Uncharted, but those who continue to try and stir these same old tired topics over and over)
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Interesting interview. Bill Buck and Raquel Velasco are somewhat less talkative in this interview than they are on the forums.
Thanks for taking part in the interview Bill and Raquel.
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redfox
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People need to get out of the past and look at the present and future.
I would agree with this, except that there are things which have happened, and are STILL happening which Amiga Inc has done which very badly damaged the Amiga community in the past. Let's be honest here. We, as a community, do not really know Bill McEwen, Bill Buck, Raquel Velasco, Fleecy Moss, Gary Peake, or any of the current "leaders of the pack".
We -- as a community -- can only judge these people (and companies) on what we perceive that they've done to us as a community versus their ability to do what they've promised. The past is a very crucial part of how we've ended up here today and is never, ever to be discounted.
So, I think it would be correct to say that we need to study the past, to learn from the mistakes that we all know have happened and to avoid allowing us to be taken in by the same mistakes in the future. At the same time, we cannot cry over spilt milk, or live in the past.
With this community and even moreso in this business, your words are your bond. They are a promise. It was that way, even when Commodore was at it's peak. So far the odds of survival based on the weight of words versus action are stacked very, very strongly against the "home team".
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Very nice interview, I would like to add some clarification to the comments about the future of Mozilla in light of the recent settlement between Microsoft and AOL. Included in the settlement was a request by AOL to still be allowed to use Internet Explorer embedded in their Windows AOL software like they have done for years. AOL made this request to keep all their options open for the future. This does not mean AOL is no longer interested in the Mozilla effort or their purchase of Netscape Inc. They in fact have increased funding to these efforts recently. AOL could embed Mozilla at anytime in any of their products like their AOL 8.0 Windows software. They already do this in their CompuServe ISP product for Windows and the Mac OS X version of AOL 8.0.
http://devedge.netscape.com/central/gecko/
There is no reason to educate Microsoft that this is their ultimate aim though. Getting a nice big fat check from M$, using some of that money to help their Netscape/Mozilla division and keeping Microsoft scratching their head at the same time is very smart and noble of AOL. We are thankful that the comments of support coming from Genesi are nicer and more supportive than the ones coming from Fleecy Moss that state Amiga Inc. will in no shape or form support the AmiZilla effort because it also represents a port of Mozilla to MorphOS. Bill Buck does not have such a narrow or limited view of the project and he would like to see it on MorphOS and Amiga OS. We feel as always that mainstream/standard/popular software like Netscape being available for MorphOS and Amiga OS will help Genesi and Amiga Inc. sell more systems to a wider audience of customers.
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Here is a list of vendors that already embed Mozilla in their products. This shows how important the AmiZilla effort is for Amiga/MorphOS users. Even the failing great company SGI considers Mozilla vital and include it with thier OS Irix.
http://www.mozilla.org/university/HOF.html
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@Wayne
I do not EVER recall seeing BBRV saying that the G3 would be faster than the G4.
Oh he definately said it ( G3 on ArticiaS will be faster than G4 on ArticiaS ), in an attempt to justify why Genesi would not be producing G4 based cards for the Pegasos1 ( this has since changed ) after the relationship with Mai was terminated.
There were also remarks in the same paragraph that were clearly designed to "spoil" the A1XE market. Alls fair in marketing they say.
If I get idle time today, Ill go look for you.
Oh and given I now know how April works I quite understand why he made that claim.
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Hmmm... A question to you Bill, I hope you can answer it.
... everybody keeps asking 'will AmigaOS 4.0 be available for the Pegasos?' But, what about the other way around? I Have an AmigaOne, but no OS to run on it, that suits me. Will MorphOS 1.4 be available for AmigaOne? I am sure that just about every AmigaOne owner would be very intrested in running it, I would even spend some bucks for it!
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Thanks for the interview :-) I wonder who will be the next? :-)
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@Wayne
he NEVER said that "a G3 is faster than a G4" (which is what most claim was said).
No, but he said:
Our G3 Pegasos performs better than the G4 Teron with the Articia.
http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=222&page=32 (http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=222&page=32)
Strange how fast you forget somethings, but never forget other things. Guess it has to do with what you like and dislike. ;-)
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There were also remarks in the same paragraph that were clearly designed to "spoil" the A1XE market. Alls fair in marketing they say.
[Insert goose and gander saying]
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About the "Pegasos April 2 + G3 faster than A1 + G4", I think you're all mistaken...
I rather think bbrv implied that Pegasos A2 + MorphOS is faster than A1 G4 + Linux, in terms of reactiveness etc etc.
I even thought bbrv said it but I'm not sure.
But I must admit what I first understood is that with April 2 the Pegasos G3 is faster than a buggy A1 with G4 where things have to be desactivated ?
Dunno... BBRV.. ?
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@Madgun
No need thats what "Alls fair in marketing they say." means.
@Mahen
Care to supply proof that the A1XE is "buggy" and that things need to be "deactivated"?
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@ mahen
Does it really matter? The A1 owners seem to be happy with their systems (the few who have spoken in public about it), and isn't that the main point (that they feel happy)? Let's move on!
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>Oh he definately said it (G3 on ArticaS will be
>faster than G4on ArticaS)
But DaveP, shouldn't that actually read something
like "G3 w/fixed ArticaS will be faster than G4/
without fixed ArticaS"...that's how I read it...
And now that I think about it that may actually
make sense...Maybe not faster "completely" or
'entirely" but faster in certain areas like
memory access (becasue of the previously? buggy
Artica).
Let's put this statement in context here, he
was clearly discussing aspects of fixed vs.
unfixed Articas, NOT raw CPU performance of
G3's and G4's.
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Does it really matter? The A1 owners seem to be happy with their systems (the few who have spoken in public about it), and isn't that the main point (that they feel happy)? Let's move on!
Exactly. Even on ann, mostly PEG/MOS fanatics and such AONE/OS4 believers fighted over the issue, who don't have AmigaONEs.
The meaning of this? One may just guess.
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@ -D- and mahen
Bill Bucks exact wordings can be found here:
http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=222&page=32 (http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=222&page=32)
And his challange directed towards Hyperion (Hyperion?? yes Hyperion!!) can be found here:
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1046031327&category=news&start=1&192 (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1046031327&category=news&start=1&192)
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Poster: Warface Date: 2003/7/1 11:31:05
Thanks for the interview I wonder who will be the next?
I suggest an interview to Mr. Dellert :-D
The only problem is . . . to find him
Ciao!
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This whole thing to me, regarding BBRV's earlier g3/g4 comment only goes to prove that EVERYONE here apparently reads different things into the same text. So far, it's been a perfect example of one piece of text, written by one person, that we have at least four different interpretations by four different people.
It's simply amazing to watch.
By the way Bill/Raquel, thanks for taking time to speak to Kees (and by way, the site members) here at Amiga.org.
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Yep, you're right. I don't care about controversies, who is good, who is evil etc... It's the job of fanatics from both "camps". And it's useless trying to convince a MOS or an OS4 (or ...) fanatic.
- mahen enjoying his MOS 1.3, looking forward to MOS 1.4 & OS4 to see more clearly
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> that we have at least four different interpretations by four different people.
Yep, one makes his/her interpration according to whether he like bbrv or not, according to whether he/she considers him/herself a pro OS4 or MOS or neutral person etc...
(whether there's an articia bug or not, whether bbrv lied/is right or not, etc etc etc)
--> all this is ridiculous !
However, bbrv should pay attention to avoid making such strongs statements when they're ambiguous.
Why can't we just all live in peace and enjoy all the enthusiasting things currently happening, and take some distance with the events ?
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@ bbrv
Thanks for the T-shirts you send us :-)
Kees & Jacqueline Witteveen
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
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@-D-
Well Im not sure about that the old revision Articia-S that caused April 1 to be developed for the Pegasos and the "unbranded patch" that Eyetech used on the SEs would not, from the information I have been given, have impacted overall performance of the system ( although the system would have been unreliable ).
With April 1 ( and I have no information about Eyetechs patch modus operandi or post April 1 ) the more the ArticiaS and April 1 combo get called the slower the overall system becomes because of the way April 1 is forced to patch Articia S.
So I can understand a claim that sayes "an unfixed Articia S with April 1 would actually go slower with a faster CPU" ( although that does not logically follow - it CAN go slower if the workload saturates the bus ).
However this was shortly after claiming that the new Articia S ( which claimed to fix the problem ) still had the problems - at least when used with the Pegasos.
Ergo if the new Articia S needed to use an April style fix then at least with the Pegasos the faster the maximum throughput of the CPU the more the problem gets exposed ( through the way the April handles the problem as much as the original problem itself ).
The press release extrapolates that this will be true for other chip users - like the A1-XE. We have since found out that this is not actually the case and who knows if the later April revisions do not contain a more elegant solution which solves the problem the Pegasos has with Articia-S.
Thats as good as I can go for wording without revealing sources and IP that is not mine to reveal.
Of course the caveat being if the information I have been so generously given in my search for the truth about Articia S is accurate and I have no reason to doubt it at this stage.
Our G3 Pegasos performs better than the G4 Teron with the Articia.
Which clearly, from the performance stats we have so far, this is not true for the A1XE. So unless there is something else we need to do to substantiate these claims I would suggest they are related to the pre-fixed-Articia Teron with G4.
How also this can be extrapolated to "Our G3 Pegasos running MorphOS is a faster ( per unit work ) machine than the G4 AmigaOne running Linux" I don't know.
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@spotUP
If you are willing to work at it, you can run MorphOS on your A1 now, according to some felgercarb I heard on the net.
The only reason MOS cannot run on the A1 is that little uBoot BIOS. If you were to, say, flash an OpenFirmware to replace the uBoot's FlashROM, it would then theoretically be possible to get MorphOS onto the A1.
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If RJ Mical, Dave Haynie and Carl Sassenrath all worked on the next version of MorphOS and the Pegasos boards. What would be more "Amiga"? The AmigaOne+OS4 or the Pegasos+MorphOS?
OS4... Just because they worked on the original doesn't make everything they touch an Amiga, no more than having Nolan Bushnel there would make it an Atari.
Well, for that matter, Jay Miner was a designer of the Atari 8-bit series before his work on the Amiga. So it *could* be argued the Amiga was originally an Atari...
Those of us who migrated from the Atari 8-bits to the Amiga were following Jay's product family, even if we didn't know it at the time.
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:-D
We are reading all this and will be present here with a good response! It is just not this one...;-)
Long day today; be back tomorrow!
:-)
R&B
P.S. Your welcome Kees & Jacquelin...you just keep those two shirts together now!
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As i have my a1 i can tell you what it is like so far with only debian linux to run and uae with liciesed kickstart roms it is not that much difrence from turning my pc on and running linux, only linux on x86 hardware seems more upto date and better. A1 has a weird bios i would not even know what some of the settings mean or do .A large full sized board like my asus pc motherboard .What i will say is this bbrv has spent more time answering questions and getting software and hardware support for the pegasos and even upto date websites with a professional layout. + there will soon be a a 1gig cpu card at the moment i have just an 800 mhz g4 cpu with no news of any upgrades and with morphos being suplied with all boards you have a proper os to use with updates going on all the time so you can use your amiga software .the mini atx board is great for fitting in many retro computer cases .I myself do want a pegasos 2. My a1 will be hardly used until os4 comes out with the pegasos i could be using it now. so well done to bbrv who must spend hours in forums getting to know the people who will buy there boards and os. :-)
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@fjudde
Thanks for the links, they back up my previous
points nicely. Judging by the entire surrounding
context of BB's statement, it seems obvious
he was comparing a "fixed" G3 to an "unfixed"
(April - less) G4 Teron. But who knows/cares...
maybe he was 'really' comparing chickens or
ducks...
@DaveP
I can understand (some) of the different angles
involved, although admittedly the whole subject
of "G3 vs. G4" is a bit silly. As always, I
appreciate your sound reasoning and insight.
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1. If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.
2. The most outrageous lies that can be invented will find believers if a man only tells them with all his might.
While we won't recognize anyone else specifically in this thread we had to tip our hat to Robert with a couple of Mark Twain (MarkTime) quotes since he got this started in such a "humorous" way...;-)
First, about the Articia and the G3 vs. G4 debate...
Comparing the rated speed of two processors in MHz is virtually useless unless the processors are exactly of the same architecture. Even processors within the same family cannot be directly compared (Pentium I vs. II, III vs. IV, G3 vs. G4, etc.). For example, the enhancements made to the Pentium II gave it far better performance characteristics than the Pentium. The difference in MHz alone could not account for the improvement. The increase was due more to a number of architectural changes, including cache sizes and algorithms, pipeline organization, memory access, etc. If you cannot compare the MHz "rating" of CPUs from the same family (hint: Altivec) as it compares to the relative speed of the entire computer, you really cannot compare the clock speeds across two distinct families (IntelWhatever and PPC). The clock speeds of CPUs reminds us of the marketing hype that goes into selling vacuum cleaners or blow dryers -- which machine has more amps? Anyway, back to computers...what "sucks" or "blows" more? Pressed to take a stand we did because we knew more about how the Articia worked last fall than the supplier themselves. We knew that as a function of the WORK that could be done that the G3 WAS faster than the G4 available at the time. This is not a question of how fast you can "huff and puff" around the block. This is a function of what work is accomplished during the "run." There will not be any public retraction about the Articia. You are entitled to believe what you want. We have made our position clear. We have been very straight forward about the problems.
Next...We are willing to support the OS4 effort as we have AROS, LinuxPPC, OpenBeOS, NewOS, etc., etc. The "bouquet in the Pegasos vase"...remember? :-) The Pegasos uses OpenFirmware, an industry standard applied by IBM, Sun, Motorola, etc. To be successful in a broader market this is a key feature we have promoted and are finding is essential to broad acceptance. A1 uses something different. When the A1 (remember this is a hardware discussion) can achieve an OpenFirmware standard running MorphOS will be easy. We have tried MorphOS on the G4 A1. It works as well as the Articia allows it to work.
Just a bit more background information... as we have said before and as it will CONTINUE to become progressively evident the Articia still has problems. We purchased 24 A660BNGE Articia S Chipsets in February 2003 and nothing has changed -- the Articia is not reliable. The A660BNGP is what was used to produce the Pegasos I. To ignore this situation is at best a distortion of reality and in the worst way, dishonest. Whether people have the capacity to accept this is no longer our problem. We did our best to make sure everyone understood the issues, starting with Mai themselves. This is part of the reason we replaced at no cost the Betatesters we sold and why we are offering a couple 200 Euro upgrade options from the Pegasos I to the Pegasos II. This was also one of the reasons we decided to hold the Summer Specials...
A last word about this subject...we produced the last batch of the Pegasos Is with the April2 patch two weeks ago. The first 1Ghz+ G4 CPU cards work, but guess what? THEY ONLY WORK WITH CERTAIN BOARDS!!! We will only be selling them as a matched sets and we will NOT make as many as we intended because ONCE AGAIN the majority of the problems can be attributed to the Articia. We are counting the days to the Pegasos II release.
About the SuperBundle package... it is designed to fuel the fire we have started with the Pegasos. We need plenty of satisfied users! We are doing are best to do that. :-) There is plenty of activity behind the scenes and we will be announcing a few things in the next 10 to 12 days. We are still trying to get organized...;-)
The idea today is to begin to build up credibility outside the Community. We think OSNews is a good place to do this, so we will begin to rally folks from here there more and more. Remember whatever the OS, you need hardware to start with, then an OS and applications. In the end, the applications are what drives everyone back to the hardware. There is a delicate juggling act to manage. If we can establish credibility in a number of OS Communities things will start to move ahead with more than the sum of the parts...:-)
What we feel some have missed in this process is that in the end the Pegasos supports many operating systems. This associates more developers to the platform and more "brands" at the same time. This gives credibility and creates an environment for innovation and cross-OS pollination. For example, we already have some neat BeOS features being ported to MorphOS. When you have the hardware, OS, and applications conveniently interconnected things can happen faster and more closely coordinated. That is the secret here. In the end, MorphOS benefits because it is the "smallest" common denominator for each Pegasos through Genesi. There is no one else in the market that can do this...
Our positioning?!
Why Choose A Pegasos? Why The Dell Not! :-D
We are the "ultimate Geek machine!" :-D Do Geeks want to support clone outfits that benefit from pumping out the cheapest boxes with the least innovation?!? No, they want to go with a Company that - for all its faults - is ready to innovate like crazy -- WITH THEM! Dell are parasites making commodity products. They do not advance the state of the art of the industry. They just make it a bit cheaper and you get what you pay for (and pay for, and pay for...). There is a MAJOR Geek factor working here that will serve to raise all OS boats...;-)
We think the First Computing Revolution of the 21st Century is about to begin. The Pegasos will be what kicks it all off -- freedom, flexibility and value! Cool Computing! :-D
Just a last word for now...have a look at Micro Warehouse (http://www.warehouse.com). When we get them distributing the Pegasos will this Community complain or understand the implications? Remember Linux and the Trojan Horse (MorphOS partitioned on the harddrive) ...and remember the bootable CD for Mac owners. Mainstream!!! Bringing something new to the market demands you leverage off things already there.
More later. We will finish the answer later, but get this posted now.
Have a great day!
Raquel and Bill :-)
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We will only be selling them as a matched sets and we will NOT make as many as we intended because ONCE AGAIN the majority of the problems can be attributed to the Articia. We are counting the days to the Pegasos II release.
Aaaaw:-( I so wanted to buy a G4 upgrade at Amiwest:-(
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Hey redrumloa, you can!
Just bring your old board...;-)
R&B
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@Wane
It truly reminds me of the Red Dwarf episode where "Cat" found out he was a god to the other hats. 1/2 of which thought the hats should be red, 1/2 who thought they should be blue. My, how appropriate...
Actaully it was Lister (Cloister the great who was frozzen in time so as to save the virgin mother "frankenstein") who discovered that he was the god of the Cat people, half the cats thought the hats should be red, half thought they should be blue, and they were kill out by holy war over this dissagreement, which was Ironic as the hats were supposed to be green... :lol: I love Red Dwarf...
@Hearwegoagain
!= means "not equal to". FYI :-)