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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: Mikey_C on June 02, 2003, 11:10:28 PM
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Hyperion-Entertainment BPPC Survey
As Amiga OS4 for AmigaOne and CSPPC based machines nears completion, Hyperion is undertaking a survey to gauage demand for the BPPC version
Therefore if you are an Amiga1200 owner with a Dual Blizzard PPC card and would like to see OS4 ported to this machine, please send an email to:
timdg@hyperion-entertainment.com
Please note: Ensuring that OS4 will work on the BPPC is a momumental task which will require enormous effort in both Time and Money. Therefore only email us if you have every intention of purchasing OS4 for BPPC.
Your support is very much appreciated in this matter.
Ben Hermans.
Hyperion-Entertainment
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:-) Stop. Back up. Think "Elbox Shark," thank you. That's how I want OS4, served up with a nice tasty SharkPPC.
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Please note: Ensuring that OS4 will work on the BPPC is a momumental task which will require enormous effort in both Time and Money. Therefore only email us if you have every intention of purchasing OS4 for BPPC.
You would like us to make a decision about a product purchase with the above conditions - about a product of which we know very little, not even a price estimation?
Never the less, I'd like to see OS4 on my BVPPC, but not at all costs and not without reaching up to my expectations.
If you provide a decent OS for a reasonable price - you will have my money :-)
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To Hyperion
I am very sure that there is a big demand for OS4 for Blizzard cars. From what I understand there are more in circulation.
Do you intend to eventually release OS 4 for SharkPPC? Do you even have any Elbox products to develope with?
magnetic
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OFCOURSE I want OS4 on my Blizz.
It's the only reason I'm holding on to this crappy Frankstein duct tapish machine.
Email underway :-).
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As far as OS4 for shark goes, it's gone very quite. Not just at Hyperion's end, but most importantly at the Elbox end? Where is it?
Warface.
If the survey is positive, OS4 for BPPC will have nearly all if not ALL the features that will come with the A1 or CSPPC machines.
As to the price, i'm not Hyperion, but I'm willing to put money on the fact that it will cost the same the A1 or CSPPC version.
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For everyone else's information, Ben Hermans has too much to do atm so I volunteered to post the announcements to various news sites and Mailing lists on his behalf.
For those of you who are not quite up to date with what Hyperion have said, they have stated in the past that they could do a relatively straight port to A1200 BPPC machines. The problem is the wide and vast range of peripherals/add-ons for the A1200 that make writting such a port a major headcahe
Thus why they are conducting the survey, they are aware of the amount of work required in incorperating all those gadgets. Before they start they want to make sure it's worth it.
Understandable don't you think?
Mikey C
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I agree Targan 100%. Bring on the SharkPPC card Elbox please.
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"Big Shark, Pretty Shark...."
Yeah, any news on that? Is Elbox still planning on producing it?
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Fleecy mentioned it in one of his Q&A's over on miggyworld.
Apparently they have a "gentlemans agreement" about not speaking about elbox's plans.
My mediator has a spare pci slot waiting for a sharkppc.
OS4 SharkPPC please.
Money for you... Money for Elbox...
Work Together.
Both of you benifit.
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What I want to know is, will the shark PPC be usuable in a PCI slot in my x86 box? That would be cool! I'd buy OS4 for that. I'd pay US$100 for it too.
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OFCOURSE I want OS4 on my Blizz.
It's the only reason I'm holding on to this crappy Frankstein duct tapish machine.
And I am totally against the BlizzPPC OS4. I'm not even so happy with the fact of OS4 being developed for CyberStormPPCs. Why? Because I have enough of this "Frankenstein" machines - sandwitch computers with 1,000 interfaces and converters (IDE, Keyboard, PCI, Zorro, DC supply...), cables wrapper around the mainboard which looks like some DIY-clone :-o . I think we need a fresh kick of soft AND hard, not a modern OS on a obsolete machine :(( Come on! Buy yourself an A1 or Peggy and stop reviving the zombie over and over again... :-?
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I sure wouldn't mind knowing what hardware will be supported or how much it's supposed to cost before I make any sort of firm commitment on this.
:roll:
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@skipp:
What difference does it make to you what hardware people run OS4 on?! :-?
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For those of you who are not quite up to date with what Hyperion have said, they have stated in the past that they could do a relatively straight port to A1200 BPPC machines. The problem is the wide and vast range of peripherals/add-ons for the A1200 that make writting such a port a major headcahe
hmmm, I'm not sure it that makes sense... Lets run a thought experiement:
1. I have a BlizzPPC in my A1200 with x,y and z peripherals.
2. At the moment the machines runs AOS3.0 on the 68040.
3. Everything runs fine.
4. I install AOS4 (which is supposed to be compatible with AOS 3.1, right?).
5. The drivers for peripherals x,y and z are still in 68K code, but the hardware has not changed.
6. The PPC runs the PPC code, the 68K emulation runs the 68k code, and everything works fine...
Ok, where's the problem?
1. AOS4 isn't compatible with AOS 3.1? Which defeats the point.
2. AOS4's 68k emulation doesn't allow low level access? Which defeats the point.
Any other ideas?
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I have to aggree with skipp604 on this one ;). Amigan's stop being so tight! Buy a god damn A1. Throw away that old BPPC. I mean what's the point in porting OS4 to it. It's got a slow bus speed poor memory access and your stuck with AGA, Permedia 2 or PCI equivalent graphics chips.
Come on guys it's time to put your A1200's to bed and buy something a bit newer.
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I have to aggree with skipp604 on this one ;). Amigan's stop being so tight! Buy a god damn A1. Throw away that old BPPC. I mean what's the point in porting OS4 to it. It's got a slow bus speed poor memory access and your stuck with AGA, Permedia 2 or PCI equivalent graphics chips.
That's really unfair!!! I spent a lot of money on my BlizzPPC, we are talking about saving for a couple of years... for what? Basicly an FPU that gets very very hot and has little support...
If there were no plans to support the existing PPC user base, why the hell didn't Hyperion just choose a decent CPU, with serious bang for buck...?
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I wouldn't even want to speculate. Given the CyberStorm runs on machines which have a plethora of drivers available and "differences" I don't actually follow their logic in this matter.
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I haven't got a PPC so it's not up to me to decide.
But if it was me, i wouldn't do a Blizzard version. I even think they should not have done a Cyberstorm version.
Why? As Skipp604 says, we need a new start. A new modern OS supporting new modern hardware. The old Amigas have been hacked, mutilated and are having expansions sticking out of every possible hole. I think the end is reached there.
I do have a lot of respect for PPC card owners because they took a big risk to support the Amiga platform (even thought about buying one myself to watch demos). But these cards are, one have to admit, a hack, something that will never have optimal performance.
OS4 + new modern PPC hardware. That is the only solution to have a future. The rest is history...
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OS4 + new modern PPC hardware. That is the only solution to have a future. The rest is history...
Then I'll ask the question again, why choose such an antiquated system, as the G3 (and G4) if there was no intention to support the existing userbase?
The PPC range of chips are very nice, but they are very expensive for their performance, and require a lot of "custom" technology, that is not only buggy it's also fussy and it takes ages to be developed.
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Then I'll ask the question again, why choose such an antiquated system, as the G3 (and G4) if there was no intention to support the existing userbase?
Well, i think there is quite a difference. i'm not talking about the CPU alone, but the whole architecture (RAM access,harddrive access,...). Something entirely different than two very old cpu's on an expansion card which goes into a motherboard that is 10 years old.
What you were probably hinting at is x86. Well, i would have loved to see OS4 on x86 but that discussion has been done over and over. It's their decision and i understand the reasons behind it.
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What you were probably hinting at is x86. Well, i would have loved to see OS4 on x86 but that discussion has been done over and over. It's their decision and i understand the reasons behind it.
Well, not exactly, I have no love of the x86 (maybe the x86-64, but that's another story)... I just don't see why the PPC was chosen if there were no plans to support the existing userbase. The PPC isn't a great choice for the user... why not choose the ARM for example?!!? Cheap, low power consumption, plenty of hardware, I'm sure high performance versions would be avaiable if there was demand... Or even MIPS?!?!? (or what ever the PS2 uses)
-EDIT- Back on topic, I don't understand why porting AOS4 to the BlizzPPC is so simple, but supporting Hardware that already has drivers and works is so hard?
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I have a towerized A1200, mediator, ethernet, some other cards....on the way.
And I was about to order my Blizzard, with 060 and 210mhz.....found a good price on one.
But hold the BUS.....they had already promised OS 4 for Blizzard, people made purchases based on their promised...now they are running a survey to see if they are going to do it.
Ya, ya, ya....no I won't participate in the survey, and I'm cancelling any plans to get a blizzard....can't trust people in this market.
It's OK though, Hyperion....I got my miggy at a good price and I can still sell it.
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Porting OS4 to BPPC will drive up the initial price.. right ?
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I'll also remind people that they said, the blizzard port was a two week job.
You know, I feel the most sorry for people who bought Blizzard's new, from DCE, or recently got them repaired, believing OS 4 was imminent.
How can some of you sit and there and not be outraged. People in this market are tired of getting taken for money based on false promises.
Now OS 4 for Blizzard has suddenly gone from a done deal to a big maybe, and soon from maybe to NO, and we never promised it, are you crazy????
lol
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Porting OS4 to BPPC will drive up the initial price.. right ?
Well according to the release from Hyperion, "A Blizz PPC Port would be simple".
The question is why, if AOS4 is AOS3.1 compatible and the Real Amgia hardware is avaiable and AOS4 includes 68k emulation, will be there be issues with periphirals?
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You know, I feel the most sorry for people who bought Blizzard's new, from DCE, or recently got them repaired, believing OS 4 was imminent.
Sorry but when have Hyperion said that OS4 would run on BPPC? I think the main reason it runs on CPPC is because they needed something PPC to develop it on.
I know alot of people would have saved up money etc but look at it this way. If you'd bought a PC back in 1999 would you be expecting to WinXP Pro on it?
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if Microsoft said WinXP would run on that machine, then I would expect WinXP to run on it, and WinXP would run on it, because for whatever else Microsoft may be, they aren't liars.
As for you not remembering that Hyperion promised a Blizzard version...I have decided to not make any mention of where they made the promise.
You have 'Amiga memory' and there isn't much more to say about it.
I'm selling my Amiga as soon as it arrives, and going back to waiting for the troubled waters to settle down.....
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I know alot of people would have saved up money etc but look at it this way. If you'd bought a PC back in 1999 would you be expecting to WinXP Pro on it?
Actually it does (not to defend Windoze here)... and this is a totally different point...
-EDIT- I'm not sure it it is there now, but last time I looked the official Amiga.com website clearly stated that AOS4.0 would have full support for "PPC cards for existing Amiga Classic computers"...
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If you'd bought a PC back in 1999 would you be expecting to WinXP Pro on it?
Ok stupid comment there! I'll shut up :-D
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ok all...I've calmed down and decided to take the intellectual approach after all. Many of you legitimately do not remember any promises from Hyperion, and think some of us are crazy.
Here is how I remember things:
What they said:
1/26/2002, Interview with Ben Hermans
http://glames.online.fr/infos/itw_hermans.html
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We will support AmigaOne, Cyberstorm PPC, Blizzard PPC (99% sure).
5/14/2002, Interview with Han-Joerg Frieden of Hyperion Entertainment:
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9. Is the situation with BlizzardPPC hopeless?
No, quite the contrary. We're quite positive that OS 4 will run on the BlizzardPPC.
How it was used by retailers to sell products:
Amiga.org, software hut update July 4th, 2002:
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OS 4 UPDATE
...we will begin taking orders on the Mediator, Amiga One and OS 4 for existing owners of the Cyberstorm and Blizzard PPC boards
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People bought Blizzards and Mediators
believing they had an OS 4 platform. It was a good
excuse to keep investing in classic hardware.
I thought Hyperion was a cut above Amiga, Inc. in terms
of being trustworthy/open/ and honest. I hope
they still are, but somehow they've gotten the idea
its survey time, instead of deliver on promise time
and that makes me quite worried.
EDIT
by the way, I can't find the sources for all the things
I remember being said, like 'of course we will
support Blizzard PPC, that's been the Amiga market
for the last two years'
ETC.....I'll stick with what can be verified, sigh.
but I'm not crazy! and yes, at times they showed
some doubt, but they kept back tracking on the doubt......and reassuring people...WHY....
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I want OS4 on SharkPPC!!!!!!!!!!!!
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by the way folks, I'm not just defending
people who can't defend themselves, like
Slovenians without internet connections...
but also I took a hit this time myself...
these posts made just hours! before this survey
announcement:
OK, I'm so serious about my porting work on the Mozilla project, I actually bought a real amiga
Towerized A1200, Mediator*, Ethernet...
and in a second post:
But then again, they already promised a Blizzard version so this is definately OS 4 upgradable in theory
obviously, if anyone reads the whole posts I made, I was entirely full of doubts that anything would be real, and I speculated I would have to turn around and sell the amiga a few days after buying it.
That's why I don't feel too sorry for myself, after all I warned myself, and I didn't listen to myself, so I have only myself to blame...pthfthtllthht :-o :-o
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I would buy it but i think the a1 version is more important the amount of blizzards available would not make it worthwile :-? :-? :-?
SHark ppc version is more important blizzards are onlly 233mhz maximum .
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SHark ppc version is more important blizzards are onlly 233mhz maximum .
Except mine, that runs at 240MHz...
-EDIT- Back on Topic: Why is is so hard for them to support AOS4 on the BlizzPPC?!?!
I suspect there are thing we are not being told... I really don't like that!!!!
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@MarkTime
But on the other hand, how come you are now so sure
there will NOT be AOS4 for the Blizzard? I understand you
thought it to be more "certain" than it is, but how come this
polling thing now makes you feel it's completely out of the
question?
Everyone says there are so many BPPC:s running out there
and that Hyperion would be stupid to miss out on selling to
the many people interested. Well, then this poll is a
non-issue, isn't it? Hyperion should get plenty of responses
in no time, easily assuring them people are really interested
in a version for that ancient piece of hardware.
I guess Hyperion looked over the work thay had to do - now
that they could actually do it, I suppose - calculated the
time, cost and support needed and got cold feet - "better
make sure people are really interested in this before we
start putting effort and resources into it", they thought. Fair
enough I say. Let's just hope a BPPC version does not
detract from the A1 version in any way. That's the only real
future for the OS, after all.
As for me, I was never interested in running AOS4 on my
old computers anyway, so I never read the status on them
all that profoundly. But for the last six months or so, I'm
pretty sure I have read "We will make a CPPC and A1
version, and *eventually* BPPC" in various postings. But I
could be dreaming. I know though that I've always
considered the BPPC version to be a lot less certain than
the other two.
.
SlimJim
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@SlimJim,
How about, they said quite clearly, that the order of ports was Cyberstorm, AmigaONE, and then Blizzard PPC.
The fact that AmigaONE comes after Cyberstorm makes it less certain??? Is that what you are saying?
Why do you even begin to defend this absurdity.
That type of reasoning is wrong. The poll, for one,
just is nonsensical. The constantly changing directions of Amiga, Inc. caused lots of developers
to abandon interest in Amiga, Inc., as Bill P. can tell
you....
Hyperion should not mimic the behaviour of classic amiga companies with their ridiculous amateur 'polls', and 'guaging interest', and 'prepayments' and all that jazz....
And suddenly stopping to decide on a 'poll' cause
the Blizzard version will be' hard', strikes a blow
to their credibility. They promised it, they better deliver it.
They aren't drumming up support. They are doing the opposite. I will NOT BUY a BLIZZARD PPC or
OS 4, as a result of their waffling. One sale lost.
I bought the dang hardware just two days ago, LMAO....with the exception of the blizz card.
Well, lucky for me, I won't lose money on trusting
Hyperion, but its only because I'm not going to trust
them again.
From the OS 4 feature list:
Support for the onboard SCSI controllers of the Cyberstorm PPC and BlizzardPPC
GEE MA, I wonder how they were going to support the BlizzardPPC without an OS4 release for BlizzardPPC.
Another reason this poll is ridiculous, besides shooting their own sales in the foot before they get started, is many Amigan's don't participate in these polls or amiga online forums.
If they did, all those Slovenian's would have been chastising me for my remarks yesterday..but since there are none of them here, you had to do it for them.
(good point on the Slovenia thing..btw).
mark
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Or maybe it is just because exec now runs on PPC and not on m68k this can gives problems for hardware drivers. Writing a user program emulator for running emulated exec is much easier then writing a m68k emulation that allows to run hardware drivers written to run on an m68k machine taking into account interrupts, MMUs and things like that. I think it is not difficult to understand that this is much harder.
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@Marktime:
I´m normally not the type of person with an "amiga" memory as you call it, but as far as I remember, hyperion stated from the very beginning, that a version of OS4.0 for BPPC wasn´t 100% sure, as they couldn´t get the needed hardware-specific information from DCE/Phase 5.
Personally, I feel like, I have waited so long, that I wouldn´t mind buying a version for my BPPC, and then when I buy an A1, also be paying a version for that one too.
Many of you states that it´s a question about supporting the new hardware. If you ask me, then it´s a matter of selling so many copies, that they can work full-time on supplying us more, and more. A version for BPPC wouldn´t be a bad idea.
One email goes from me to hyperion..
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@Hardboy,
You need to understand I've been trying to deal with these folks for sometime now. Yes!!!!
Yes, you are right, they occasionally casted doubt on the Blizzard PPC project. 99% certain is not 100% certain. But anytime you tried to suggest BlizzPPC is not going to happen, they fired right back, but IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
HOW CAN YOU SAY OTHERWISE, WE ARE 99% SURE. We have no reason not to do it. BlizzPPC *IS* the Amiga market. THIS WILL TAKE TWO WEEKS.
You understand....do you?
Everyone, please keep buying Amiga hardware, spend your hard earned cash, we need you to keep all Amiga dealers afloat, but then if we turn tail and supply you with NOTHING that is OK too.
It up to you, the Amigan, to keep spending money...we, as a highly respected company, are obligated to do nothing.
The most frustrating thing about all this, is the
constant defense of these companies...
but I do respect Wayne, for taking a stand against
Amiga, Inc....who was, after all the main offender,
hyperion is heaven sent by comparison...
but its still not a good way to do business, and until
a developer knows what to expect, well...its very
hard to bother.
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Mine BPPC runs on 300MHz with 66MHz BUS.
Lots of people still use their 200MMX or
Celeron 300MHz.
BTW stop makeing unpleasent jokes on small countries! I'm online for 7 years, and I live
in Croatia(4 million people live there)
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@MarkTime
I'm sorry that you obviously feel so agast by this poll thing
and that you feel your newly bought Blizzard no longer
holds any value to you. Since I have/had no absolute
interest in AOS4 for the Blizzard, I always considered it
something they would do last - after A1 release even. It
seems I was mistaken in that regard, it does appear
Blizzzard development would start right away if this poll
has a good turnout.
I fail to see why this woulf influence your desicion so. The
Slovenians are a more forgiving bunch than the
Blizzard-owners you know ;-) - if there is interest, the poll
will show it, and you'll get your AOS4 for Blizzard. If not,
well - apparently the interest for a Blizzard was bigger
when Hyperion last decided on it - more than a year ago
and today it would be a loss for them. What do I know?
Only speculating here.
Similar to your loud outrage over the "prepaying" of
AmigaONE:s, I feel you are being overly melodramatic over
this. At any rate, if you were serious enough to buy a
Blizzard, at least wait to see if the version comes before
selling it. You are not dealing with a day-to-day stock option
here. The prize will not drop if you don't sell it right away.
.
SlimJim