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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: IonDeluxe on May 22, 2003, 12:01:10 PM

Title: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: IonDeluxe on May 22, 2003, 12:01:10 PM
As there is no factual information I have created two polls to find out just what the community thinks.
you can find the polls here. (http://os.amiga.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=13492#13492)



Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: JoannaK on May 22, 2003, 01:05:27 PM
IMHO.. it's too early to ask. After OS4 is running nicely on Aone, then it'll become more valid question.
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: System on May 22, 2003, 01:18:47 PM
Yes, I do.

I will pay as much as a boxed copy of Windows XP Pro costs for it too.
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: bhoggett on May 22, 2003, 01:46:12 PM
Don't care, since I don't want a Pegasos any more than I want an AmigaOne. Any other options?
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: Warface on May 22, 2003, 02:07:04 PM
What was your purpose with these polls? And what do you think, how will it succeed?

If you wanted to know, if current Pegasos owners want OS4 on their machines, then you will fail. I presume a serious degree of "Do you want OS4 on pegasos?" NO answers will come from actual AmigaONE owners who have emotional bias towards the Pegasos as a platform.

The same goes, in an even higher degree for your question "What do you think should happen to get OS4 on Pegasos?". Do you think AmigaONE owners will self restraing themselves and not vote "Genesi Should obtain AmigaOne certification as it is" but "Amiga Inc. should drop the dongle and\or relax the lisencing fees"?

Another issue, someone mentioned " If the peg2 comes out, then consider it if the manufacturer is willing to put in the proper support infrastructure to pass the licence requirements."

Excuse me, what are the licence requirements? We have absolutely no knowledge about it, so we cannot judge about it. Those which were publicly available ages ago were such, that not even the current AmigaONE matches the requirements.

The third problem, you'd like us to decide on something which we know very little about. I'll definitely wait the release, or at least a decent demo of OS4 with my answer. (As I have a blizzppc and a pegasos too, I can wait)

The fourth problem is, why can't the poll be on Amiga.org?
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: KennyR on May 22, 2003, 02:10:18 PM
Sure there's another option - use a PC only and forget AmigaOS ever existed. But I guess you do already, Bill. Your loss.
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: redrumloa on May 22, 2003, 02:10:54 PM
@Warface

You are right that you will not see an accurate poll when it is hosted on Amiga Inc's website.  :crazy:
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: ikir on May 22, 2003, 02:14:28 PM
Useless poll
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: Kronos on May 22, 2003, 02:41:41 PM
@ikir
100% aggreed !

I have said it long ago, and now I will do it again:

Holding the finger into AInc&Hype's faces over the
licence-issue was the smartest thing Genesi could do.


And for those whining "but there are only 600
Peg-owners, I also got something to say:

What does a "new" plattform need to succed ?

Zealots who take the Amiga as a religion (literally) ?

Or enthausatic bedroom-coders ?

No I don't think that all A1-owners are like that,
but a great portion of the vocal part IS.

And there are atleast 100 bedroom-coders who own a Peg.

Also have a look at the current RAM-prices, and you will
find out SDR allready costs more than DDR and it ain't
hard to guess how it will look in 1 or 2 years, when
(if) OS4/MOS have evolved enough to become more "mainstream".

Selling a SDR-based mobo in 2002 was hard, in 2003 it
needs fanatics, and in 2004 it will be a joke.

So what option will Hyperion have to get their OS
on a really modern HW ?

TeronXX ? Forget it, MAI haven't even finished
the Sa-design, how long till the P will be really
ready for mass-production (if ever) ?

Apple ? Yeah, sure nice HW, but also 100% not cooperative.

Peg2 ? Oh no no no, they are evil, evil, evil ....  :-P

I also don't see why anybody should licence OS4 for
an STB or similar, as these costumers either won't
a full package (HW+SW) or full controll over the OS.

So :

Useless poll  ;-)
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: MarkTime on May 22, 2003, 02:56:14 PM
>>what is the purpose of these polls?

to visit os.amiga.com, I'm sure.
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: Warface on May 22, 2003, 02:59:33 PM
Another matter, if it wasn't your, but - let's say - Amiga Inc's or Hyperion's poll on how many would like to see OS4 on the Pegasos I'd vote in an instant with YES. But it's not the case.

(Or Genesi's "How many are out there wanting to cover the extra cost the licencing means for Genesi AND buying OS4 in addition" to which my answer is a definite NO)
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: amigamad on May 22, 2003, 03:05:39 PM
There should be some sort of agreement that will get morph os and os 4 on both hardware platforms  so people can make there own choice. :-)
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: Wilse on May 22, 2003, 03:05:59 PM
@red:
Quote
You are right that you will not see an accurate poll when it is hosted on Amiga Inc's website.


Or any other website, for that matter.
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: Kronos on May 22, 2003, 03:10:31 PM
The only accurate poll on this would need to
be held on the Beta2-mailinglist .....
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: Warface on May 22, 2003, 03:13:40 PM
I know that it's strict business secret, but may we know what were the licensing terms Eyetech could and Genesi couldn't accept? It's told, that it's the same for everyone. I'm just curious, but not expecting an answer. :-)

And what are the expectations a board must conform to in order to be called AmigaONE? Were those changed as AmigaONE is an AmigaONE, despite that it has neither DE nor OS4?
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: yssing on May 22, 2003, 03:16:19 PM
Sticking to amiga sepcifik HW si the way to go, as it have always been.
To much different HW, will only give us the same problems as the Windows world have today.

Maybe We will have to buy our HW at a higher price, but it will most likely never run into the same incompatibily problems as with the wintel HW.

So for me, a big NO.

Hope I am making sence. :-)
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: Kronos on May 22, 2003, 03:21:52 PM
@yssing

Only because one extreme causes problems (really ??)
ain't enough proove that going the other extreme will
be a good idea.

One of the major reasons for the death of Amiga
was and is that there were no companies to produce
new Amigas, after C= (and later Escom) collapsed.

So who would build/sell HW for OS4.x if something
goes wrong with either MAI or Eyetech ?
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: yssing on May 22, 2003, 03:28:48 PM
@Kronos

I can see your point, and it really was to bad, that no one made any new amigas since the demise of Commodore, except for a few clones.

But I am just saying amiga specific Hardware is a better way.
This day, no one really makes any new ZII or ZIII stuff any more, does not really  matter.
Then certify some hardware as amiga specific HW.
Say something like this "This HW we know 100%, this we will support". Ofcourse new HW are build all the time, but that does not mean we have to use it.
Stick to a selected few, that would IMHO be better.
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: dammy on May 22, 2003, 03:35:23 PM
Poster: KennyR Date: 2003/5/22 9:10:18

Quote
Sure there's another option - use a PC only and forget AmigaOS ever existed. But I guess you do already, Bill. Your loss.


And AROS runs on?

Dammy
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: Warface on May 22, 2003, 03:39:03 PM
Quote
Stick to a selected few, that would IMHO be better.


That's why Amiga set a standard (Zico?) before all the hassle begun. They have also set a set of rules of which describe when can a machine be called AmigaONE.

The Pegasos not matched the criteria, the planned AmigaONE (the old Eyetech/Escena design) was a perfect match. Never the less, that AmigaONE remained that - a plan.

Whatever, Amiga Inc is free to say YES and NO's. They hold the IP. I'm just interested in the policy/licensing/etc. changes occured since.

- EDIT -

And the original licensing terms of course :-) I know, it's secret, but you know the human curiosity :-)
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: Kronos on May 22, 2003, 03:48:06 PM
@Warface

Actually the other way round:
The Peg is the only one that would have been "Zico" ....
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: Warface on May 22, 2003, 03:52:12 PM
Quote
The Peg is the only one that would have been "Zico" ....


No. The original Zico spec required 4 PCI slots, the Pegasos has 3 AFAIR. However, now neither the Pegasos nor the current AmigaONE matches the Zico criterias.
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: amimonkey on May 22, 2003, 05:37:12 PM
@MarkTime

Now that's what I call a conspiracy theory! :-D

Ian
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: meerschaum on May 22, 2003, 06:36:34 PM
so one missing PCI slot makes it not 'zico' ... I consider the rom to be more divergent from zico then a missing PCI slot... who cares if it has 1 less PCI...it has more integrated features to make up for that... and its smaller....people complain about that one PCI slot... I dont get it
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: seer on May 22, 2003, 07:22:44 PM
it has more integrated features to make up for that... and its smaller....people complain about that one PCI slot... I dont get it

What I don't get is that people are still "discussing" this A-One vs Peggy crap.... We had these BS since the Atari wars, and you people still haven't had enough of it
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: IonDeluxe on May 22, 2003, 08:38:45 PM
Whats the poll all about?
Simple, I was interested to know.
Why is it posted on that website?
Because thats the only website I am aware of that is amiga\computer related that allows me to make a poll as nothing more than a registered member.

There are alot of people passionate about pegasos here, and also a number for the other team, and this is why I posted the news item here.The polls are certainly NOT there to bring more people to that website.

I have initiate discussion on this topic with BBRV, but realized it was pointless without any indication of what the community wants and thinks, so hence the polls.

I encourage people to post a link on as many pegasos and amiga related websites as possible, the more people that answer the polls from different places, the more accuracy the polls wil have.

The other part of the poll is the bit thats not asked.If few people answer it, that shows a lack of interest in the subject.If alot of people answer it, it shows a great deal of intrest

If there is not enough intrest in it, then there is not point in my continuing to persue this discussion with BBRV, and I will stop wasting his time.
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: Warrent on May 22, 2003, 08:58:57 PM
@ Kronos

Quote
What does a "new" plattform need to succed ?


Money and this point and time I do not see anybody having the money to make it in the "main stream market"  As Bill Gates learn, making money is in the software, not the hardware, so if someone would like to have a real shot at the "main stream market" then making new mother boards is not where it is at.  Let's face it neither the Peg or Amiga is going to make it in the "main stream market".    

So, who really cares what the Peg or the Amigaone does??  Just some small groups?  Both sides can say whatever they want and to who does it really matter??
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: Hammer on May 23, 2003, 01:54:12 AM
IF Pegy camp just obtained a license like Eyetech one wouldn’t even ask this question.

I don’t think Amiga Inc would change their licensing policies. The poll is just a futile exercise.
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: gary_c on May 23, 2003, 02:21:21 AM
I think it's too early to decide. After we see how  AmigaOS4 and MorphOS compare, how the application support turns out, etc., then we would know if there's something to be gained from AOS on Pegasos. Ideally, I think it'd be neat.

Seems like Genesi wants to promote Pegasos as a multiboot board, so AOS would join the lineup of OSs for it. But as a practical matter it might not make that much difference if the apps are mostly already available on MorphOS and features are more or less equal.

-- gary_c
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: legion on May 23, 2003, 06:32:19 AM
Uh hmm.. lets try to go back to the original topic, yes?

"Would you like to see OS4 on the Peg?"

Me?  yes.  Support as much PPC hardware as possible.  Get us away from this x86 dominated market.  I don't care if its cheaper!  Its an old, outdated, "ready-for-the-boneyard" architecture.  Jesus Krispy-Kreme Christ, even Intel knows this.  Can you say PA-RISC?

Anyhow, as much as I hate to see Big Blue reclaim any sort of title (you think MS strong-arms the market?  heh.. IBM *invented* IT strong-arming), you have to admit its a better platform... especially PPC970, which should take RISC back in the right direction.  

The same goes for MorphOS.  Their head is in the right place, but they are trying to beat OS4 to the punch with whip cream on the top (ambient) but crap underneath.  IMO they should have waited util the OS was a bit more stable before a 1.0 release, but... oh well.  Its just my opinion.  Regardless, I hope MorphOS supports as much PPC hardware as they can get their hands on, even BeBox's.  Hopefully, it will bring true competition back to the marketplace.  

Its ironic.  IBM couldn't do it with their OS, but... will they be able to do it with hardware???   :-?
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: legion on May 23, 2003, 06:42:00 AM
gary_c:  Actually, Eyetech is promoting the same thing.  They are trying to sell the A1 board as low power consumption, linux-running server board as an alternative to those x86 blast furnaces.
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: dammy on May 23, 2003, 01:49:54 PM
Poster: Hammer Date: 2003/5/22 20:54:12

Quote
IF Pegy camp just obtained a license like Eyetech one wouldn’t even ask this question.

I don’t think Amiga Inc would change their licensing policies. The poll is just a futile exercise.


I agree.  AO4 is vaporware and Genesi needs to focus on OSs that are here and now.

Dammy
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: redrumloa on May 23, 2003, 02:52:45 PM
Zico? LOL what a bad thing to bring up to help a pro A1 arguement:-) Zico required firewire which the Pegasos has built in. The A1 does not. This is just one example.
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: takemehomegrandma on May 23, 2003, 03:31:36 PM
Quote
Selling a SDR-based mobo in 2002 was hard, in 2003 it
needs fanatics, and in 2004 it will be a joke.

So what option will Hyperion have to get their OS
on a really modern HW ?

TeronXX ? Forget it, MAI haven't even finished
the Sa-design, how long till the P will be really
ready for mass-production (if ever) ?

Apple ? Yeah, sure nice HW, but also 100% not cooperative.

Peg2 ? Oh no no no, they are evil, evil, evil ....  

I also don't see why anybody should licence OS4 for
an STB or similar, as these costumers either won't
a full package (HW+SW) or full controll over the OS.


That is so true. The question isn't about what Genesi has to do in order to get OS4 running on the Pegasos, the question is what *Hyperion* should do in order to get their OS running on modern hardware (PegasosTwo). The answer is: Port the OS to Pegasos!
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: bhoggett on May 23, 2003, 05:08:53 PM
Here's an interesting arstechnica article (http://arstechnica.com/cpu/4q99/risc-cisc/rvc-1.html) which should make educational reading for all those RISC evangelists out there.
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: greenboy on May 24, 2003, 04:21:58 PM
The mere mention of 'zico' makes me laugh all over again! The cocktail napkin spec that pretended to be a real live spec! Just like Pinochio! Oh, and don't forget D'Amiga ; }

Really.
Title: Re: New Poll: Do you want OS4 on Pegasos
Post by: greenboy on May 24, 2003, 04:28:57 PM
Hey Legion,

Some like whipped cream on top! And the recent MUI thread kinda says a little bit of how that whipped cream is being improved ;  }

As far as crap underneath, well, actually the MorphOS team has some incredible time put in to make sure that the design itself has a future. The current implementation might be a little rough but it SURE AIN"T CRAP ; }

After AmigaOS4 comes out {the OS whose owner has made hundreds of first impressions regardless of what he says ; } I think that almost everybody will have a more realistic perspective on just how hard this is.