Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: System on May 16, 2003, 04:22:38 AM
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Someone just posted this on a local club list:
AMIGA INC
10AM - TUESDAY - JUNE 17
Preview 8-10am, Tuesday, June 17
34935 SE Douglas St, Suite 210
Snoqualmie, WA
Dot com servers, pc's, printers & late model furniture
http://www.murphyauctions.net/auctionschedule.htm
Plus I tried to go to http://www.amiga.com and it said it could not find the site. 10 minutes later, it was there.
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Hmm..... I could use a new office chair....
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Well it's possible that they're just getting rid of some old st...
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! *wipes tear from eye*
Oh, for fun. I'm sorry, I couldn't complete that statement without busting out laughing. Yeah, they're hosed. I mean if you can't get 200 teeshirts printed up...or refund $50 here and there.
Woo! :-o
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lmao 'alive and kickin' and 'on schedule and rockin' lmao...I wonder if Sun,IBM,HP, or any of the rest have similer auctions.
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It's all very zen... they must now cast off their material possessions in this transition into the promised 11th chapter.... errr..... hahaha!
Man... one really does have to wonder what the banquet at the show will consist of. I wish it were a bit more central US. I wouldn't mind driving there, but it just isn't worth the price of the airline/hotel for me.
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Y'know this is beginning to remind me of the death of Commodore - for days some folks were saying "it ain't dead!" and "Look, I can ping their VAX machine! They're still alive!"
etc.
Heh.
Alas, no floor polisher left though. Ah well.
I feel pity for those losing their jobs, the IT market sucks lemme tell you what.
In other news, I think it's downright weird that three posters here are all from Florida. You'd think the population distribution for Amiga users would dictate one in each state.
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I feel pity for those losing their jobs, the IT market sucks lemme tell you what.
Very true.... though from the sound of it, they hadn't actually been paying anyone in a while, so I guess they were essentially out of work for a while, already. :-( From the human side, bankruptcies do suck.
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BTW, the Amiga.com site is still up insofar as I can tell.
I guess they were paid up to their webhost until the end of the month.
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Very true.... though from the sound of it, they hadn't actually been paying anyone in a while, so I guess they were essentially out of work for a while, already. From the human side, bankruptcies do suck.
You got that right...
I figured this new Amiga venture was doomed from the get-go anyway. Pity the Amy couldn't have found a death with dignity.
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I wonder if Sun,IBM,HP, or any of the rest have similer auctions.
Certainly, I'm sure they do... Normally it's to get rid of 10 year old equipment, or to close down a particular operation (such as when a company has many plants).
Based on what we know of Amiga Inc's eviction, pending and awarded lawsuits, my bet is on a foreclosure and seizure of assets to cover unpaid bills. But that's just my opinion, and has been for about a year now.
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I work for a very large furnituremanufacturing company. I can fix a 20% cut of normal price now that AInc is re-decorating.. but can I have one t-shirt as a return? :-)
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@Wayne
I mean if Sun/HP/IBM close their offices and auction everything off while their 'on schedule and rockin' :)
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Certainly, I'm sure they do... Normally it's to get rid of 10 year old equipment, or to close down a particular operation (such as when a company has many plants).
I think that's mostly the case here... Unfortunatly, I think that was the only equipment and operation they had, though. ;-)
I don't think it's actually a foreclosure, though. (Wouldn't that need to be disclosed?) Just a reduction of.... well.... all material assets. Most likely in a closing of shop, or a reduction of weight and bills with a last hope for a new buyer for the bits of IP of it. (Microsoft scoops Amiga Anywhere, and Hyperion gets OS4? -- probably what they're hoping for) Then close shop and go home.
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I want to bid on the Nameplate that went on Bill's desk that says "CEO of Amiga", think it'll be there? :-P
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Sitting here thinking about this, and going back through the posts regarding the subject when they vehemently denied losing their offices, stating only that they have "relocated", I wonder if anyone will actually apologize to me for all the times I've been called a liar for bringing this stuff to the community's attention?
When they shut down the offices last year, I told you all this was happening. I was called a liar... That trend continues to this day with the Garry Hare incident...
It gets tiring being right all the time, but I'll be interested to hear the spin on this from McEwen himself at Amiwest. I'm just not paying $35 to hear it.
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I hate to sound morbid, but will someone from Seattle or the surrounding area PLEASE, PLEASE, Pretty PLEASE go take pictures for us at the auction?
Thank you.
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Yeah, transitioning into the state of a virtual corporation with cell phones and working from home.
Try searching http://courts.wa.gov/ (http://courts.wa.gov/)
I assume the State of Washington and a few others want their pound of flesh.
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Try searching http://courts.wa.gov/
Nothing there yet, but the day is still young.
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> I wonder if anyone will actually apologize to me for
> all the times I've been called a liar for bringing this
> stuff to the community's attention?
Nope, just like they won't apologise for calling you a liar when you said OS4 was at least a few months off.
I expect the lies to continue from them.
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Poster: downix Date: 2003/5/15 23:26:20
Hmm..... I could use a new office chair....
That's scary, that is what I've been thinking while waiting for this to happen.
Dammy.
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Good, i hope this means those bastards are going bust once and for all, without scum like that maybe the Amiga can progress.
So the world may know.
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Nothing to worry about! They're just becoming hardware independant!
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@Wayne
I hate to sound morbid, but will someone from Seattle or the surrounding area PLEASE, PLEASE, Pretty PLEASE go take pictures for us at the auction?
Deathbed Vigil II - The return of bad finances.
With that said: If Amiga Inc. is going down (and auctions like these are custom in those cases at least here in Sweden), I feel truly sorry for everyone who's waiting for refunds, computers, AOS4 etc. :-(
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> Nothing to worry about! They're just becoming hardware independant!
:lol: :hammer:
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You mean Amiga Inc didn't have offices?
But! But-but-but Mike Bouma told us all they DID!!! WTF?!?!? He threatened to call us all fudders on OSNews if we even questioned the possibility!
Oh, I am so shocked...
Really.
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haha...maybe they've just fully 'integrated'
themselves into the "DE"...and are no longer
in need of physical objects/space...
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Gary already said on the mailing list that this is old stuff from the offices which they no longer use.
HO NO!!!!! Amiga Inc closed there office one minute early today!!!! they must be closed down for ever!!!! :-)
give me a break.
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@Wayne
So far Ive found the following list of people that call ed you a liar over the allegation that their landlord kicked them out:
Mike Bouma
Luca Diana
Ill post the links if you want.
So what do we have so far, in the public domain:
#1 Court judgement against Amiga Inc from former employee.
#2 Court judgement against Amiga Inc from former landlord which is now resulting in a job lot sale. The fact that the equipment is still in there shows Amiga Inc was locked out and did not have a chance to hot-foot it out of there with their stuff.
Current unsolved mysteries:
#3 Garry Hare, is he the CEO or not?
-- Bill Buck sayes he handed him a CEO biz card
-- Wayne sayes he handed him a CEO biz card
-- Ray Akey sayes he is not currently the CEO of Amiga Inc.
-- Fleecy Moss sayes he is not currently the CEO of Amiga Inc.
#4 Is anyone getting paid at Amiga Inc?
-- Ray Akey sayes he is.
-- Lots of people are questioning it.
Impending court cases:
#5 Thendic vs Amiga Inc over shipping DE/Anywhere with their FatBoy device (?)
#6 Some other rumoured cases against Amiga Inc of which I have no details to hand.
Well thats 6 questions to put to Fleecy this week! Anyone got any more I can ask?
Thank god AOS4 is safe in all this. There is a point where rumours either become accepted truth or accepted falsehood. Which way will these go?
Regards,
Dave.
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> Gary already said on the mailing list that this is old
> stuff from the offices which they no longer use.
> HO NO!!!!! Amiga Inc closed there office one minute
> early today!!!! they must be closed down for ever!!!!
> give me a break.
Might want to check out some past threads on Moobunny and Ann.lu. There are no offices. Don't take my word for it, send them a pizza or call their landlord.
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Nothing to worry about! They're just becoming hardware independant!
ROTFL :lol: that's a good one :roflmao:
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Ah, Mike Bouma was calling EVERYBODY fudders who thougfht the offices had been closed. Then, some time later, some quiet news about moving to more modest digs. But no connection between the two, of course.
I wish I could say that Amiga Inc themselves were auctioning the equipment, to pay Bolton Peck. But I think that is probably not the case, at either end of the equation.
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Yes send proper hard hitting questions to that Fleecy Q&L but have you ever noticed only the mild questions get answered?
What is better
Fleecy who is the CEO at Amiga Inc?
or
Fleecy your amazing can i have your autograph?
The second one would get answered and the first one would magically vanish.
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Sitting here thinking about this, and going back through the posts regarding the subject when they vehemently denied losing their offices, stating only that they have "relocated", I wonder if anyone will actually apologize to me for all the times I've been called a liar for bringing this stuff to the community's attention?
Noone will apologize you. They never did. When I stated in 2001 august that some delay in the AmigaONE/OS4 will most probably occur I've been cried out loud a liar by Gary Peake. The very same people who cheered him then sit now on amigaworld.net and repeat the same.
I've seen you apologize if you were mistaken. Why I can't see them doing the same after all those insults?
Don't want to make it personal and listing names, but if one browses the archives will find very strong words at times.
However, I have to add that Fleecy once apologized for the false announcements at the start of the QA-s and promised that it will never happen again... Yet...
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@Paul
I have asked hard hitting questions five times now, two look like anonymous questions because I deleted my ID ( DaveW ) and the last two were in last weeks questions ( not selected ) and this weeks question ( theres still hope ).
What the middle third one was I cant remember.
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Thank god AOS4 is safe in all this. There is a point where rumours either become accepted truth or accepted falsehood. Which way will these go?
No, it isn't. Remember Haage und Partner. Being the saviour, leading SW company of the community, now public enemy. I hate to say, but if/when it will happen: I've told you months ago that this may happen. Hope I won't be right.
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@DaveP
Do you think that Q&A is rigged? (i do)
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Perhaps the stuff is obselete or unused. And saying that their site was down doesn't have any relevence - we all know how unreliable their ISP can be :-)
But with things as they stand it's still cause for concern - I wonder what A inc say :-?
BTW does anyone here live near A inc's offices? A lot of people would be interested in seeing what is happening there. And if someone does drop by, can they install a webcam?
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@Paul
Well there is only one way they can rig it, and that is the selection process.
I can see three possible alternatives:
#1 Questions get selected that won't offend Fleecy because if he is offended the Q+A might cease and it draws publicity and hits to the site.
#2 Questions get selected that Fleecy sayes he can answer, so whilst at the height of the criticism ( that only the easy questions are selected) ( but only easy ones were being asked for a while because we were all trying to work out how far we could go in our questioning before they were not selected ) some of the more negative questions were put for a week. Now that has been done they can say "see look we did what you asked".
#3 Questions get selected that do not create adverse publicity for Amiga Inc.
@Warface
According to Hyperion, AOS4 is protected in the contract. I see no reason why they would lie about that. It is possible that the contract is not failsafe but being in different countries helps - you can get protection behind geographical legal boundaries. ;-)
@All
You must remember that for a long time now we have had just peoples word to go by in order to judge the situation. Some people have taken a certain type of "word" ( say anti-Amiga Inc ) as truth without question, some people have taken another type of "word" as truth without question ( say pro-Amiga Inc ) and others ( like me and most of you ) think about who the source is, why they would say that and what the possible alternatives are. It may cloud the truth a bit while the possible alternatives are discussed and eliminated but its better than being a B*F where *=faction.
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With all that is heppening, I'm really questioning whether I should get one now :-? .
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According to Hyperion, AOS4 is protected in the contract. I see no reason why they would lie about that. It is possible that the contract is not failsafe but being in different countries helps - you can get protection behind geographical legal boundaries.
No, I didn't mean AmigaOS4.0. I meant the future versions. And Hyperion itself.
Never the less, I still has respect towards Haage und Partner despite the negative attitude towards them. Just as I respect Hyperion. (as some may have noticed this by now this Haage saviour/public enemy theory is a fixa idea of mine, sorry for that :-))
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Strange how all this coincides with the release of Matrix 2. Maybe Bill took the green pill and woke up to find Tim Rue telling him "welcome to the real world"?
AI dont need furniture any more because its not real. We are all not real. We are all just tools in a giant digital environment.
Seriously though, this has me a little concerned. Seems strange though just after the game packs are released. Maybe the game packs are making them millions and they are flogging the old rubbish to buy titanium and diamond encrusted desks?
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I think Bolton Peck lived near the offices (in Puget Sound commuter terms)...
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@Warface
IIRC Hyperion clarified in public that if AInc went tits-up.com then they had the full rights to continue to develop AOS beyond AOS4.
@Bodie
Given this is unlikely to impact the A1 or AOS4 in any way whatsover I wouldn't let it impact your purchasing decisions in that respect.
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@HMetal
Alas, no floor polisher left though. Ah well.
Damn!!!! I soooo wanted one after the deathbed vigil
BTW, do they pay you extra for all the PR work? Or are you on fireman's wages already?
Cache Ya,
Craig.
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@Wayne
Sitting here thinking about this, and going back through the posts regarding the subject when they vehemently denied losing their offices, stating only that they have "relocated", I wonder if anyone will actually apologize to me for all the times I've been called a liar for bringing this stuff to the community's attention?
Sorry. No apologies from here. But then I have nothing to apologise to you for.
Cache Ya,
Craig.
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@Bodie
If you're worried, just wait until OS4 is
out before you get it.
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@Desom
I think you got confused by the avatars :-D . (Ie bootdisk and hmetal)... Don't worry I thought the same thing :-D .
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I cannot see hmetal saying:
I figured this new Amiga venture was doomed from the get-go anyway. Pity the Amy couldn't have found a death with dignity.
In fact, he's only replied on the ANN thread - A inc have been fairly silent. But it looks like Amigaworld.net are going to ask fleecy.
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@Paul Gadd
Do you think that Q&A is rigged? (i do)
Rigged huh? From the (upcoming) Q&A:
4) Tigger: Where you unaware of what Bill McEwen was going to say in the Bolten Peck case about not being the CEO, or were you intentionally misleading the Amiga Community with your post that Bill McEwen was still the CEO??
You guys simply have no idea what you are talking about -
or do want to claim Tigger is asking an easy-peachy "I love
fleecy" question here?
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SlimJim
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"A inc have been fairly silent"
You just noticed? Like, on public forums until "ask fleevy" came along Amiga Inc - with the singular exception of Ray - hasn't said jack for ages and a day. The stock answer is probably that they are too busy ... I'm guessing this is because without the floor waxer they have to get down on hands and knees and do it the old-fashoned way.
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@Bodie
I think you got confused by the avatars . (Ie bootdisk and hmetal)... Don't worry I thought the same thing.
Thanks for pointing that out.
I still don't owe Wayne an apology. :-D
Cache Ya,
Craig.
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@SlimJim
Moss gets easy questions, anyone can type hard questions but they NEVER get passed on and as for Tiggers question will that get answered? i doubt it.
10 weeks of easy questions, either rigged or that is some coincidence, the wool can not be pulled over everyones eyes.
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@SlimJim
That still does not mean that Paul is incorrect, it could
fall into category #2 of my three possible rigging scenarios ( Fleecy sayes he can answer it - and the pressure to answer an adverse question is there ).
You can answer that without resorting to "you guys don't know what you are talking about" or "fleecy loving" ( which no one suggested ).
Regards
Dave.
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IRC Hyperion clarified in public that if AInc went tits-up.com then they had the full rights to continue to develop AOS beyond AOS4.
Just as Haage und Partner holds right to OS3.9. That's why Hyperion couldn't use the 3.9 sources for OS4. So it's not that "good thing from all sides".
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I'd expect Fleecy would definitely be asked about it. I doubt that it'll be in the wording that Tigger used as that only gave three fairly similar options.
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@Paul Gadd
Well the question IS put forward to fleecy this week.
Perhaps your criteria for a "hard" question is more
constrained than mine, but I would consider this to be a
"hard question". If fleecy chooses not to answer it, it will
say "No comment" below. How does that make the
question in itself "rigged"?
@DaveP
Mr. Gadd proposed that only questions in the vein of
"Fleecy your amazing can i have your autograph?" are the
ones that would be asked whereas harder ones
vanish. I summarized this attitude as only "fleecy loving"
questions was assumed, and presented an example I felt
contradicted that claim. I stand by my feel that many in
here haven't got the slightest idea what they are talking
about but bash the Q&A just for the sake of it. If you felt
included in that group, it will have to stand for you, but it
was not my intention.
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SlimJim
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@SlimJim
Fair enough. But unless there was completely random selection of the questions then the system is open from everything to mild bias right through to "rigging".
I understand now where the Fleecy Loving came from.
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Oh well. Hopefully this will be the last Amiga company with no products and only the name. I've watched them come and go since '94. Time to carve another notch.
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I would think the Q&A is rigged. If it wasn't, it would consist almost entirely of trolly questions from Darth_X. ;-)
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Oh well. Hopefully this will be the last Amiga company with no products and only the name. I've watched them come and go since '94. Time to carve another notch.
They haven't gone bankrupt yet. We'll see. (What more damage can they make?)
Damn, as for the PPC OS split is one thing, but splitting the amiga.org community... That was a real ugly move.
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@Paul_Gadd
You really take the conpsiracy theory to new depths.
All the AW staff pick the questions not just MikeB. (I think thats what your trying to imply)
I can only pick from whats there and I pick questions about the HW and OS4, questions I would like answered personally.
Besides, how do you know what questions are asked, you never come to AW right? ;-)
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@L8-X:
Sorry, you are a good man, but many on amigaworld.net resembles to King Arnuf and his citizens from Monty Python's Eric the Viking: (sorry for the long quote)
KING ARNULF Now, I know what some of you must be thinking... the day has
come.... we're all going down, etc. etc. But let's get away
from the fantasy and look at the FACTS.
FACT ONE - The threat of total destruction has kept the peace
for one thousand years.
FACT TWO - The chances of it failing now are therefore one in
three hundred and sixty-five thousand.
FACT THREE...
By this time the water is up to people's knees, and several have
crowded onto the lower steps to avoid getting wet.
KING ARNULF FACT THREE - Our safety regulations are the most rigorous in
the world. We are all nice to each other, we never rub each
other up the wrong way or contradict each other, do we?
CROWD No.
Rumble. The buildings sink and masonry falls.
CITIZEN We... er... do seem to be going down quite fast, Your Majesty
- not trying to contradict you, course.
KING ARNULF No, of course you're not, citizen. But let's stick to the
facts. There has NEVER been a safer, more certain way of
keeping the peace. So whatever's happening, you can rest
assured, Hy-Brasil is NOT sinking. Repeat, NOT sinking.
ANOTHER CITIZEN May I just make a point in support of what King Arnulf's just
said?
KING ARNULF We'd be delighted - wouldn't we?
CITIZENS Yes, we'd certainly like to hear what one of us has got to
say...
ERIK What are you all doing?
CITIZEN AT THE BACK (cheerfully) It's all right. It's not happening.
ERIK (urgently) The place is sinking!
CITIZEN AT THE BACK Yes... I thought it was too, but the King's just pointed
out that it can't be.
CITIZEN (still speaking in support of the King) ...and, of course, we mustn't
forget King Arnulf's EXCELLENT eye for flower-arranging.
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if fleecy chooses not to answer it, it will
say "No comment" below. How does that make the
question in itself "rigged"?
The questions passed on to Moss are rigged (ie easy as hell ones), you must see that, 10 whole weeks of easy questions and those Q&A sessions still get praised.
Ok lets see 10 proper hard hitting questions to Moss as the mild crap is getting boring, that is fair?
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@Paul_Gadd
So obviously Tigger doesn't ask tough enough questions for
your taste. Or are you deliberately avoiding the example of a
"tough question" I put forward?
-edit -
Bah, just forget it. It's off topic anyway.
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SlimJim
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Tiggers question is spot on (never said it was mild) and it is about time proper questions about the company is asked and i am glad you have put it forward.
Tough proper hard hitting questions is what the Q&A needs and your comment here (http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=490) 2003/5/16 9:20 says it all.
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Gary already said on the mailing list that this is old stuff from the offices which they no longer use.
Hmmm. Don't know how to feel about that. Technically he's not lying but skating in a circle on thin ice isn't smart.
They no longer use it because they were locked out of their offices according to the court documents displayed by Rich Woods. The material possessions were seized to pay for something like $40k in back rent.
A 3 year old corporation doesn't have surplus equipment yet guys. There is no positive spin for this, so stop the bullshit and accept it.
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"A 3 year old corporation doesn't have surplus equipment yet guys. There is no positive spin for this, so stop the bullshit and accept it."
Oh man, the damage controll spin that they're pulling is hilarious!
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They were thrown out of their offices around AmiWest last year (July/Aug 2002) for non-payment. This auction has been expected for months now.
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So obviously Tigger doesn't ask tough enough questions for
Personally, I don't care what questions people ask "Fleecy". He will not directly answer the question, nor has he directly answered (yes or no) a lot of questions. He'll have some long, drawn out explanation -- like Gary who says that "the equipment being auctions is no longer being used" -- while carefully leaving out any similance of facts (in the case of the auction, it's not being used because they were evicted and the equipment seized, but God save the facts).
When he does, I will be certain to point out the inaccuracies of his statement.
As a matter of fact, 10 weeks in a row now I've been able to see through the "Fleecies" to the real answers. I guess someone should actually start posting the translations of "Fleecies" to reality here.
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Wayne,
Not being able to recall all of my posts, if I owe you one, then you have it...here.
That being said, and recalling a previous post on related subjects, whatever else happens I will stand by my friends. That includes those at Amiga, Inc.
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Why are you all celebrating?
I suppose the chance of this (and the implied AI is bankrupt) being true is very high, but how is that reason for joy?
I think you are acting (or are you indeed acting?) very young and spoiled, gloating as you are about the demise of an amiga company and decent (I believe they are) human beings.
I think you are acting incredibly immature, and I probably am too as I could not bring myself not to the the reply-button on this thread (though, in all modesty, I believe I am usually quite good at that).
Sincerely,
-Kenneth Straarup.
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Elendil: Sometimes seeing the truth has funny effects to humans. I think this is one of those moments.
To me it's nothing.. ... just more or less logical part of what's been obvious long time ago.
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@elendil,
Why are you all celebrating?
There's a saying about dying on you feet or living on your knees. I suspect a lot of those posters who are celebrating the auction because they think it means they're safe again.
In Canada there's a similar story: the Avro Arrow. Basically it was a jet interceptor designed around 1953-57 that (would) have beat just about anything flying till probably the early 1970s. The thing is, it was cancelled before it went into production and the final prototype never flew (arrowheads: sorry if I've left a lot of details out).
I see this as a metaphor for the Amiga community: if Amiga fails, they can always talk about how good it was, how far ahead of everything it was- and they'll be no-one using Amigas to point out when they're wrong!
Or maybe another example from The Simpsons: Lisa is given a choice at the end of one episode to either move up to grade 3 and be a small fish in a big pond or stay in grade 2 (as a "big fish in a small pond") where she's smarter than most of her classmates. She yells: "Big fish, big fish!". Some Amiga owners are like that- they like the Amiga market because it's so claustrophobic, if it got bigger they'd feel they'd be drowned out. If this auction is anything to worry about, then, congratulations, you're spot in the small pond is safe. Just watch out for those C64 users- who knows maybe they'll port UAE to the C64 one day :)
I personally disagree- someday you'll have to move to the big pond, even if we have to drag you kicking and screaming for "AAA, SuperDuper-Agnus, 16-bit Paula, Hombre...mommmmie save me from reality!"
Zoltan
(who spends too much time on amiga boards)
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Poster: elendil Date: 2003/5/16 10:12:36
Why are you all celebrating?
I suppose the chance of this (and the implied AI is bankrupt) being true is very high, but how is that reason for joy?
I think you are acting (or are you indeed acting?) very young and spoiled, gloating as you are about the demise of an amiga company and decent (I believe they are) human beings.
I think you are acting incredibly immature, and I probably am too as I could not bring myself not to the the reply-button on this thread (though, in all modesty, I believe I am usually quite good at that).
Sincerely,
-Kenneth Straarup.
Is this a joke? Where were you when Amiga Inc was calling Wayne a liar both directly through employees and by proxy through it's inner circle fanatics? I didn't see you defending poor Wayne from baseless attacks! Now the shoe is on the other foot and FACTS are coming to light and you blame Wayne? :-o
-edit- I saw in the threaded view this was a response to Wayne.
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I wonder if there's anything important to the Amiga - documentation, notes, source code, or whatever in those offices that could be lost....
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why am I happy? , well I'm not happy about them going under... I'm happy about the truth comming out and people finally having an unbiased view of them... its good to see the truth come out and the 'FUD" and 'Troll' tellers get a taste of it..
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Why are you all celebrating?
I suppose the chance of this (and the implied AI is bankrupt) being true is very high, but how is that reason for joy?
We're glad the truth is out?? I dont see parties starting, many in the community are hoping that the lies told by Amiga Inc will stop now, or at least not be believed. Last year Amiga Inc told us at least a dozen lies about what was really happening in their offices remember when:
1) The phones were hacked
and then
2) The phone numbers were changed because we were getting too many calls
Someone posted they had been locked out of there building, they said it was untrue, I and others (T_Bone was one I believe) send pizza to the building, guess what they werent there. They still are telling people we are working there, things are rocking, plus of course (Buy coupons, coupons are good, we'll send you a free T-Shirt). How many fewer coupons would they have sold if everyone knew that they had been locked out of their building by there landlord. Now the landlord is auctioning off the contents of Amiga Incs old offices (at the offices) and we have the Amiga Inc crew claiming that its just some old stuff we dont need anymore. By there own admission, they havent been in those offices for months, why are "Amiga Inc" holding an auction at the offices they moved "everything' out of months ago if we believe their official stance. The truth is they arent holding the auction, its being done by there former landlord, and there isnt alot of way to spin this in a positive vein.
-Tig
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Hi,
Why all the fuzz? There is really nothing going on at all. Why talk about Amiga being bust and all? Amiga is there now and also tomorrow.
Coder
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@Coder
Good one buddy :roflmao:
By the way where you been Coder?
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Poster: Coder Date: 2003/5/16 11:11:29
Hi,
Why all the fuzz? There is really nothing going on at all. Why talk about Amiga being bust and all? Amiga is there now and also tomorrow.
:-) Coder, hope you and Imation are doing good, we havent heard much from you two since you returned to Thailand (a country I had alot of fun exploring in January btw).
-Tig
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Why are you all celebrating?
No one is celebrating atm but if Amiga Inc do go bust then it is worth celebrating the end of the cancer in Amiga users and Amiga companies sides.
So the world may know.
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@redrumloa
Good one buddy
Well, I got info from Fleecy wich tells different. And I believe him. :-)
By the way where you been Coder?
Getting settled in here in Thailand. Wich is pretty much a done deal now. Ohh and some holiday time.
Coder
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@Tigger
Coder, hope you and Imation are doing good, we havent heard much from you two since you returned to Thailand (a country I had alot of fun exploring in January btw).
We are doing great. I do come here everyday. Also we posted about us but that is on the thread that does not show up on the mainpage and is easily missed.
And also it's more like a holiday now. Doing nothing all day long. :-) But slowly I am getting back to doing my work I wanted to do. And that is making games.
Coder
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Well, I got info from Fleecy wich tells different. And I believe him.
if/when they do go absolutely bust... I hope you dont mind when I laugh at you and say 'see I told ya so' a few times...
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The most tragic thing about all of this is the number of people that devote countless hours debating over who is right and who is wrong. Why bother?
No matter how you slice it, blind faith or cynicism don't change the situation. Looking at the user community who in their right mind would want to market products to such a fickle bunch?
This information isn't good but it's clear a lot of people have self-serving motives that are equally distressing. Everyone has all the answers but virtually no experience in delivering. It's a lot easier to call the shots when you're sitting from the sidelines.
Instability is bad for everyone - thriving competition is desperately needed, not more deathbed vigils.
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My opinion as co-webmaster here: This is good stuff! Lot's of things to talk about, and we can enjoy a few more debates for a while over this one!
My opinion as a person: I hope that McEwen is gone, and that he has to work for Chris Aldi, Juurgen Haage, Felix, or any of the guys he's screwed-over in the past. I want him to eat out of the same plate a lot of developers had to eat out of.
Yeah, btw, I'm a Genesi employee now too. But guess what? I don't have an "official" opinion. My opinions expressed here are MY OWN.
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I think you are acting (or are you indeed acting?) very young and spoiled, gloating as you are about the demise of an amiga company and decent (I believe they are) human beings.
Th eproblem is that, that those who are right and telling the truth are called "FUDders" "Trolls" and "Liars" as long as the Actual Amiga leadership (not just the actual one) can make people believe the opposite. When the bubble bursts and it turns out you're right then you're the worst kind of wrongdoers, harming those poor ppl.
They dig their grave for themselves. Just to be clear.
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as a person who learned to walk with the amiga and recently started to look into the community again I can say that we have a wire fraud in the making or as we say in Sweden "bedrägeri" there are obvious signs of bankrupcy and if that is'nt the case it is probably a corporate reconstruction (??)
But my personal opinion on the matter is that the unfortunate people over at Amiga inc are head over submerged in water.
they seriously need to rethink what they are doing and as far as this netventures thing goes, they should exercise their shares. Kick the people that can be coerced into it, board meeting, get a good-handson-team in there to rebuild and salvage what can be salvaged.
And as far as this thing is going with the person known as samface and the other Swedes:
"grabbar kika på dokumenten och bestäm er, det är väl trots allt bättre om vi går ihop och gör något vi kan göra något åt alt. med än att vi försöker blåsa liv i något eller hur!? "
and to all the others, leave it be, the documents basically say one of two things, nothing to really argue who's right or who's wrong about;
Lets just take this journey where it goes and if it ends, let's begin another!
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The Amiga inc. website is up and running and the news page was last
updated yesterday.
Amiga inc. are autioning some furniture, so, maybe they're
refurbishing their offices?
Why do people insist on this scare mongering?
Amiga Inc. are clearly not out of business - selling off some old
furniture doesn't mean they've gone bust.
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I remember alot of people jumping for joy when commodore went under.....and look where that brought us.
These kinds of threads do nothing but harm the comunity.More people get turned away from amiga, which means less sale for eyetech and Genesi(even if genesi do not have a product for sale at this time) and less sales for hyperion which in turn leads to less developers, less applications.
I am personally disgusted by the lot of it, both Genesi and Amiga Inc.Both of these parties have provided poor examples of integrity and behaviour, and certain behaviors in both camps do nothing but tarnish the already rusty image that the amiga community provides to the rest of the world.The rest of the world that we need to bring amiga back from the edge of the grave.
We can see the truth of this by Bodie rethinking his decision to buy amiga.What is a someone newly interested in the amiga going to think?
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The way i see they got eyetech to do the amigaone boards and hyperion to do os4 so what has amiga got other than amiga anywhere and amiga de and a bunch of failed contracts ie nokias setop box the sendo smartphone, apart from microshaft they cant have any money coming in they have nothing else.
so they must be screwed :-? :-o
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@Tarhgan
My opinion as a person: I hope that McEwen is gone, and that he has to work for Chris Aldi, Juurgen Haage, Felix, or any of the guys he's screwed-over in the past. I want him to eat out of the same plate a lot of developers had to eat out of.
I wouldn't shed any tears of sympathy for Mr. Haage, that's for sure. While the popular perception seems to be that Amiga Inc treated H&P very badly, the evidence tends to suggest that throughout Amiga Inc's existence H&P have sold Amiga Inc IP in several of their products (OS 3.5, OS 3.9, Amiga Dev CD 2.1, StormC, AmigaOS XL), and not a single cent of this ever made its way back into the Amiga Inc coffers. If anyone got screwed, it sure as heck wasn't Haage.
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@cockney_dave
I'm currently working for an Internet consulting company which is not doing well at all (the difference here is that the employees who's left are getting paid, and that the financial state is official). The company is not broke yet, maybe it's never going be, but we're currently selling perfectly good furniture and computers which are just a couple of years old. This is stuff left over from people who's gotten laid off. What I'm saying is that no company with a healthy economy would dream of selling three year old stuff.
And if Amiga Inc. is just refurbishing, how come they're selling computers and "dotcom servers" as well? The technology is moving fast, but a server or office computer doesn't just get old and unusable after three years.
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Redrumloa:
I am too stupid to figure out that threaded thingie, so I am usually simply replying to the bottom post, no matter what I am replying too. It was not a reply to waynes post.
Sincerely,
-Kenneth Straarup.
-
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-
I don't get this Mr Sheen thing... Someone care to explaing?
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I think you are acting (or are you indeed acting?) very young and spoiled, gloating as you are about the demise of an amiga company and decent (I believe they are) human beings.
You mean decent human beings like "tire mechanics"...? Or don't they figure into the equation? If you will not pay people up to the date of termination, how decent are you, REALLY?
And really, nobody owes it to anyone else to support a poorly-run business like a charity just because they have put up a few posters of themselves in wheelchairs from time to time under the guise of Executive Updates or pleas for support through the rough times in a very expensive exclusive newsletter - a newsletter that closes off information in a community that is supposedly starved for actual information.
If anything sounds like gloating here, it is probably being heard by ears that have tuned themselves mainly to only a certain range of voices. Meanwhile, other people have recognized the spin coming out of the company orifices time and time again, and have no longer enjoyed the attendant sensation of feeling it coming up behind them. Through pain and frustration and exasperation perhaps these are the ones who have learned not to trust those issuances.
What you are hearing is NOT gloating: it is however the sound of people who have been wronged and mislead, and perhaps wish to be vindicated for the lumps they had to take when attempting to be frank about what they have seen and experienced.
But I realize also that some supporters of Amiga Inc hope they will get some stock options or something. Or they have programmed for DE (insert current name?) and wish to see some returns on that investment. Others believe it might impact OS4's future.
Others feel their friends matter more than someone else's friends. So if push comes to shove let someone else's friends be the ones to be victimized. Yes, there will continue to be justifications available to convince oneself that some people are nice and deserve to be paid, while others are NOT nice and deserve to be shafted.
But those justifications become less powerful as the evidence becomes more obtainable.
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I don't get this Mr Sheen thing... Someone care to explaing?
Wipes away your worries and financial problems?
Or perhaps A inc used inferior cleaning products which left "streaks and sticky residue" on the furniture they're selling?
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Poster: IonDeluxe Date: 2003/5/16 19:36:55
I remember alot of people jumping for joy when commodore went under.....and look where that brought us.
These kinds of threads do nothing but harm the comunity.More people get turned away from amiga, which means less sale for eyetech and Genesi(even if genesi do not have a product for sale at this time) and less sales for hyperion which in turn leads to less developers, less applications.
I am personally disgusted by the lot of it, both Genesi and Amiga Inc.Both of these parties have provided poor examples of integrity and behaviour, and certain behaviors in both camps do nothing but tarnish the already rusty image that the amiga community provides to the rest of the world.The rest of the world that we need to bring amiga back from the edge of the grave.
We can see the truth of this by Bodie rethinking his decision to buy amiga.What is a someone newly interested in the amiga going to think?
Yep lucky that ppl did not pick on the original amiga ppl when they were strapped for cash before CBM came in, as then there would of been no amiga at all.
No one here is doing anything to make things better,its just making us look stupid bunch of back stabbing gits to the world as soon as things dont go as we like.
We know amiga.inc is cash strapped. The rest of the world knows as well.
You should not pick on someone for being skint, ether you help them out or you keep out of it, as kicking them when their down has never helped anyone ever as all your doing as adding to the problem.
Thats why i stay Quiet on the Subject most of the time.
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Dot com servers, pc's, printers & late model furniture
Hmm... Didn't someone mention something about selling computer equipment second-hand and getting pennies for it? Even an ancient computer makes a good server... if you run Linux. :)
Furnature does not just become obsolete. In fact, the aucion includes printers. Since when do printers become obsolete? I use dot matrix printers at work, for crying out loud. They serve their purpose!
I feel truly sorry for everyone who's waiting for refunds, computers, AOS4 etc.
True. I feel no sympathy for those who bought coupons, however. Serves you all right.
I got seriously burned with the SDK. At the time I figured paying for it was an acceptable risk, because it was a product, not a promise. The SDK turned out to be mostly Amiga-branded Java apps, which didn't even have much VP in it, never mind DE. That was the end of my faith in Amiga Inc.
Now, I'm just around because of the curiosity factor.
Paul Gadd: Good, i hope this means those bastards are going bust once and for all, without scum like that maybe the Amiga can progress.
Well, it can't get any worse. With OS4 in the hands of Hyperion, it doesn't look like anything new will come out from a post-Amiga Inc. company. You might as well build a whole new computer, and then, it's "not Amiga".
Really, I had no interest in Amiga Inc. revamping the 68K systems. PC hardware has moved on, and there are hundreds of companies that can make effecient hardware better than anything Commodore could dream of doing. Volume tends to weed out the weak like that.
The Amiga and its hardware principles died with Commodore. I wanted a brand new machine that works *LIKE* the Amiga, but running on common PC hardware. Since I'm a big fan of interpreted programming languages, VP really got my attention. But then, there was endless silence.
ALX: But with things as they stand it's still cause for concern - I wonder what A inc say
All companies are built on reputation. You wouldn't buy a BMW and expect Kia quality. Amiga has no reputation as a trustworthy company; they are unprofessional and ignorant. I could care less what they say.
zee4: I personally disagree- someday you'll have to move to the big pond, even if we have to drag you kicking and screaming for "AAA, SuperDuper-Agnus, 16-bit Paula, Hombre...mommmmie save me from reality!"
PC hardware, anyone? Oh, that's right. Piracy is a problem. Well, we should just make proprietary hardware for the hell of it.
A lot of good that did, and Amiga still says they're a software company!
Coder: Well, I got info from Fleecy wich tells different. And I believe him.
Why don't you give Fleecy a good Q&A session? Why is everything an insider's club? NDA's are popular practice these days, but you can't tell me a lack of Amiga.com website updates is due to NDAs. Anyone looking for investors (or customers), is not going to do the stuff Amiga Inc. is doing.
ne_one: It's a lot easier to call the shots when you're sitting from the sidelines.
Bad PR shoos away investors and drives customers to other companies. Amiga has probably the worst PR I've seen in a while. What people see from the sidelines *IS* important.
The purpose of the sidelines is to watch the show. There's just not that much to watch.
Carls: The technology is moving fast, but a server or office computer doesn't just get old and unusable after three years.
Yup. A lot of my friends turn 5+ year old computers into Linux boxes and use them for servers. There's a role for everything.
A three year old server is junk, but people are *perfectly* willing to use an AmigaOne based on PC standards several years old -- and pay top dollar for it, right?
Greenboy: You mean decent human beings like "tire mechanics"...? Or don't they figure into the equation? If you will not pay people up to the date of termination, how decent are you, REALLY?
You know, I wonder if Bill is going to be in the poor house along with his employees.
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We know amiga.inc is cash strapped. The rest of the world knows as well.
You should not pick on someone for being skint, ether you help them out or you keep out of it, as kicking them when their down has never helped anyone ever as all your doing as adding to the problem.
Aw, hell! Let's all preorder products from upstart companies! Once people realize Amigans are all suckers, investors should dive right in!
There's something called, "proof of concept", and that's how you earn funding for future projects. If you can't get money because nobody is interested in your concept, then that's your fault.
No, I don't think all companies fail because they are morons. Some people get lucky and others are not. But selling coupons as a fundraiser is not the answer.
Suckers!
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@Paul_Gadd
The questions passed on to Moss are rigged (ie easy as hell ones), you must see that, 10 whole weeks of easy questions and those Q&A sessions still get praised.
I dunno about that. The only question I've posted (week 6, Amithlon situation) at least got asked.
Ok lets see 10 proper hard hitting questions to Moss as the mild crap is getting boring, that is fair?
That'd be fair, except they'd only get answered with the same old rhetoric and politcal bullsh!t.
Quite honestly, I think the PTBs at Amiga.inc wouldn't know if their collective arses wee pointing skywards. Their only hope of salvaging any respect from the kommunity would be to get 100% behind the products WE want and are willing to pay good money for, while forgetting such things as the AmigaNowhere crap.
Cache Ya,
Craig.
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@cockney_dave
The Amiga inc. website is up and running and the news page was last
updated yesterday.
Amiga inc. are autioning some furniture, so, maybe they're
refurbishing their offices?
When you read "auction, police seizure" it doesn't mean the company is auctioning off their own furniture.
Why do people insist on this scare mongering?
I think you're reading more into their posts than they wrote.
People are just seeking the truth.
It's obvious to me (in this case) that the company has had trouble paying their rent and have been locked out of their world headquarters. In lieu of the back rent, the landlord has had all the contents of the building seized and has put it up for auction in order to recoup his due payment.
Now why won't Amiga.inc just admit that? Everyone would be happy and the so-called scaremongering would stop.
Cache Ya,
Craig.
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I liken it to the Bends...
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@alx
Thanks. I never was good at symbolic stuff. That's why I like Charles Bukowski so much :-)
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@Desmon
When you read "auction, police seizure" it doesn't mean the company is auctioning off their own furniture.
It doesn't. Read further down on the page, next to the Boing Ball and Amiga logo :-P
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Aw, hell! Let's all preorder products from upstart companies! Once people realize Amigans are all suckers, investors should dive right in!
No where in my post did i sugguest to preorder anything.
IS Insulting All amiga users the only way you know to get your view across.
There's something called, "proof of concept", and that's how you earn funding for future projects. If you can't get money because nobody is interested in your concept, then that's your fault.
I agree
No, I don't think all companies fail because they are morons. Some people get lucky and others are not. But selling coupons as a fundraiser is not the answer.
I agree
Suckers!
Who is that aimed at ?
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No one here is doing anything to make things better,its just making us look stupid bunch of back stabbing gits to the world as soon as things dont go as we like.
It's a pretty untrue accusation. But most of us work for the community and not Amiga Inc's sake, that is true. IMHO they called for it: they splitted then alienated the bigger of the community, and now you expect that part of the community to rush and help out your favourite vapour company? I'd say no way.
They are on their own. If they deliver products, keep their words and PROVE to be honest then the community will help them too.
Helping and praising the Inc, whatever happens, whatever it does, lies, promises, ignores is not a god given duty of the community in all circumstances as you insist.
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It's a pretty untrue accusation. But most of us work for the community and not Amiga Inc's sake, that is true. IMHO they called for it: they splitted then alienated the bigger of the community, and now you expect that part of the community to rush and help out your favourite vapour company? I'd say no way.
Its Pretty untrue to you maybe but not to me or others that i know.
they splitted then alienated the bigger of the community
Bigger part you must be jokeing. and where did the other half spilt too.
Where did i say that amiga.inc is my avourite vapour company.
Stop putting words into my mouth.
Just because i say i dopnt like apples that does not mean that im saying i like oranges.
Not likeing one does not mean you must like the other.
They are on their own. If they deliver products, keep their words and PROVE to be honest then the community will help them too.
Agree
Helping and praising the Inc, whatever happens, whatever it does, lies, promises, ignores is not a god given duty of the community in all circumstances as you insist.
I Agree, but not with me insisting that ppl should help & support amiga.inc.
I never said that.
What i am insisting on if you dont want to support amiga.inc for what ever reason then dont.But that dont mean you have to attack them as much as you can either.
There are 3 choices in 1)Support 2)Obstain 3)Against
Im at 2) i have not supported Amiga.inc in anyway nore any other Amiga IP owner in the past. but that does not mean i have to be against them.
Fare to many of you will not allow ppl to be at 2)
If your not against amiga.inc them you must be for them. WRONG.
I just dont feel the need to waste time on them either way,let them sort out there own mess.
But no most of you cant live with that you have to try to make things harder for them by making a bigger mess all over the forums.
So say you want them to sort them selfs out then if you do just that leave them to it.
I bought amigaos3.9 because i wanted Amigaos3.9 i would not ever buy anything that i did not want just to help out Amiga.inc.
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@Alkemyst
I bought amigaos3.9 because i wanted Amigaos3.9 i would not ever buy anything that i did not want just to help out Amiga.inc.
Just as well, since Amiga Inc would not have profited in any way from your puchase. They got no revenue or license fees from sales of OS 3.9.
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Well if AI does go bust, I hope Gateway will to the right thing and put all Amiga related intellectual poperty under GPL... Give the thing to the community, and let us do what we want with it.
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Well, it can't get any worse. With OS4 in the hands of Hyperion, it doesn't look like anything new will come out from a post-Amiga Inc. company. You might as well build a whole new computer, and then, it's "not Amiga".
Really, I had no interest in Amiga Inc. revamping the 68K systems. PC hardware has moved on, and there are hundreds of companies that can make effecient hardware better than anything Commodore could dream of doing. Volume tends to weed out the weak like that.
The Amiga and its hardware principles died with Commodore. I wanted a brand new machine that works *LIKE* the Amiga, but running on common PC hardware. Since I'm a big fan of interpreted programming languages, VP really got my attention. But then, there was endless silence.
Waccoon just said the only accurate thing about the Amiga since the demise of Commodore. I salute him.
Unfortunately, nobody's going to listen. I mean, hell's bells, Dave Haynie has said as much and nobody listens to him, either.
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He will not directly answer the question, nor has he directly answered (yes or no) a lot of questions. He'll have some long, drawn out explanation -- like Gary who says that "the equipment being auctions is no longer being used" -- while carefully leaving out any similance of facts (in the case of the auction, it's not being used because they were evicted and the equipment seized, but God save the facts).
When he does, I will be certain to point out the inaccuracies of his statement.
Excerpt from "Weekly Q&A's with Fleecy Moss - Week 10"
4) Tigger: Where you unaware of what Bill McEwen was going to say in the Bolten Peck case about not being the CEO, or were you intentionally misleading the Amiga Community with your post that Bill McEwen was still the CEO??
Fleecy: Bill McEwen is still CEO. He was CEO before I posted that statement, he was the CEO when I posted that statement and is the CEO today as I type this answer to you. I have no comments to make about any on going lawsuits.
That seemed pretty direct to me, but go ahead and point out the inaccuracies...
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@quiesce
He didn't answer the question.
He was asked if he knew what Bill mcEwan was going to state in the
case regarding Bolton Peck.
In return, Fleecy just went on and on stating that Bill is CEO.
In short, he didn't answer the question (if he knew) at all.
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He didn't answer the question.
He was asked if he knew what Bill mcEwan was going to state in the
case regarding Bolton Peck.
No, but he addressed the question directly by saying he would not comment on law suites. He also addressed the implication behind the question for the benefit of everyone who kept saying he did not directly say that McEwen was still CEO, which needless to say, still won't be satisfactory for them.
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No, but he addressed the question directly by saying he would not comment on law suites. He also addressed the implication behind the question for the benefit of everyone who kept saying he did not directly say that McEwen was still CEO, which needless to say, still won't be satisfactory for them.
No, he acted as if the Peck suit is still in doubt (its not) so he couldnt comment on what Bill said. Obviously it was interesting to hear that despite Bills sworn testimony that he is no longer the CEO of Amiga Inc, that Fleecy still believes he is. Of course I believe Fleecy is lying with his answer, he knows what Bill said in his deposition, he is just playing cover up. Ray, Fleecy and Gary cant even keep there story straight about the auction. We have Rays 'its a good thing', Fleecy with 'we are getting rid of old stuff we dont use' and Gary's 'the landlord is selling old stuff we "just left" there'. The truth is they were locked out of there building last year and the auction is being carried out on behalf of there landlords to clear some of their debt with them. The auction house has told me and others the auction is being carried out by them on behalf of the landlord (ie the Inception Group LLC). Why they have to lie about this stuff I dont know.
-Tig