Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Retail News / Sales => Topic started by: redrumloa on May 05, 2003, 02:55:48 PM
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The famous game pack featuring 1 AMIGA game (Crossword Puzzle) is currently being advertised in CompUSA's national flyer. This flier is distributed with newspapers nationwide and reaches millions of homes.
Link to online HTML version of the ad here. (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=298747&pfp=ADPRODUCTS)
PDF version of the Flyer here. (http://www.compusa.com/AdProducts/pdf_menu.asp)
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I forgot to mention it is on sale for $29.95. It being advertised in their flier means it IS available in store at all of their locations.. Probably the first time anything with the AMIGA brand name has been mass marketed in many, many years.
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Nice post Redrumloa ! :-)
Too bad they chose a puzzle game...
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I wonder how much royalties they can make from 1 game out of this game pack? After they pay the author I mean :-?
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You beat me to it !!
Whatever... Its ALL gonna help Someone.
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I do not mean to be negative here. It's good to see they "got something out". I don't however see anything being sold as an Amiga product, only the word Amiga on one of the games in the Microsoft product.
That means that Microsoft gets 90% of the money from the sale. Out of the remaining 10% of a 29.95 product, I would doubt that the author gets even one single dollar for his game :-(
If this is the case, I hope Microsoft sells lots of them, if for no other reason than to pay the author for the game.
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@Wayne
I agree completely, though I thought it was newsworthy enough though considering I stumbled accross the ad while looking thorugh the flier:-) Very minor, but better than nothing!(?)
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It's definately better than nothing though.
Good to see the Amiga DE, TAO (whatever you want to call it) environment is being used. I have always been a fan of the concept.
Lets hope they do make something out of it.
SidMan.
=- New A1G4 owner -=
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I'm beginning to wonder, in order to get paid, if software authors for the game packs ought to just go straight to Microsoft and cut out the middle man.
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I think after joining the DE DEV list the terms of payment and percentages were given.
But I can see where this is going........................
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Way to start another flame war wayne!
:-?
AmiMonkey
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@amimonkey
I am *NOT* trying to start anything. I hope Microsoft sells bunches of them, as it demonstrates there is a market for such things. It also helps get the authors of the actual games paid. Both of which I am very much for.
I do not however understand why the game authors don't go to Microsoft directly instead of giving 70% of their "$3.00" from the sales to Amiga Inc who have done absolutely nothing in this example except put their name on TAO's product.
I don't say this with any hidden animosity, I simply cannot see the logic in this case. If Amiga software authors can write software and make money selling it through Microsoft, very cool. Amiga software authors deserve support, but exactly how, and exactly WHY is Amiga Inc getting (what I recall to be when I signed up as a developer) 70% of that already small percentage of money from the sale is a bit beyond my particular understanding.
If you are offended by my lack of understanding, I apologize, but please feel free to calmly and LOGICALLY explain it to me.
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Amiga can co-ordinate it all.
That is why..
Plus they provide the forums and people for support. You belong to that community and you get help.
Also, I think it would be very difficult for individuals to approach Microsoft.........
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Amiga can co-ordinate it all.
but they don't. This is a Microsoft product and if you think that Amiga Inc is allowed more than a "here's what we have", then that would be a very unique situation with Microsoft..
Plus they provide the forums and people for support. You belong to that community and you get help.
Where would this be? Their forums aren't well attended and TAO supports their own product.
Also, I think it would be very difficult for individuals to approach Microsoft.........
Not at all. Have a product that Microsoft wants, they'll talk to you whether you're a janitor or a superstar. They're interested in making money. How do you think that Blue Ribbon ended up in their hands?
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After reading through this threat I watched the "Bill at TechTV"-clip after a long time and AmigaAnywhere still looks good. Too bad it's really been too long time for it to make a breakthrough, I think.
Honestly though, I have not been following AA recently. Just remember what I read on magazines when it was being made and later saw it once live, long long time ago.
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Okay, apologies Wayne (the way things are going recently I thought it was yet another dig at Amiga Inc). It just seems as if every time something positive happens for Amiga Inc, sombody's always there to undermine it and go on about the coupon scandal/Bolton Peck even if they know very little about the facts.
As far as I can make out, bearing in mind that I know no more than you do, I should think that the nature of Amiga Inc.'s relationship with Microsoft would enable smaller software programmers who wouldn't be taken seriously to get their products on the shelves, and Amiga Inc would be able to provide support for the platform? This is just guess work tho...
Also I believe I heard talk of Amiga Inc creating the api's in use by the games.
AmiMonkey
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Co-ordinate by getting deals done. I did not mean "as in telling" Microsoft.
I can't see how you can say that support isn't given, because it is. Have you ever had a question that hasn't been answered on the DEV lists? I'm talking about programming here.
I still think it would be difficult to approach Microsoft. Amiga knew what Microsoft were doing and managed to get a product released for it (no matter how small).
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This nags me: "Manufacturer: Microsoft"
Why should microsoft get the credit for this?
I bet Amiga inc, get only a small percentage of the profit from those, though in reality it was Amiga that developed it.... pretty sad :-(
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Like I said, it's a good thing that they got SOMETHING out. I just don't understand why Microsoft doesn't just set up a department to work with TAO to write the stuff.
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This nags me: "Manufacturer: Microsoft"
Just a guess, but because they wrote it, manufactured it, licensed it, packaged it, and are selling it?
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I bet m$ took the whole idea... i wonder how much they paid them..
same thing with the Amiga pocket pack also: http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=300466&pfp=SEARCH
Amiga® Games MMC Pocket Pak 2 for Pocket PCs
CompUSA Price: $29.99
Manufacturer: Microsoft
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@Wayne
Prehaps Amiga had some foresight?
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If Microsoft wrote "it", why would they need to license "it" from themselves?
AmiMonkey
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Hey there 8-)
as any SDA developer knows, the past 3 years have seen a lot of functionality added to the AmigaDE - Ami2D, AmiStorage, AmiDB, Prism, Fix, Matrix Convertors, Sprites, Scaling (feel free to add here Jonas if you are reading) not to mention the entire content environment itself - the packager, CASS, Quickstart, level_packs, standalones and Gamecards plus SDAs themselves helping out on some host binding elements.
It was the PIPO (Pop In Pop Out) Gamecards and the quality of the SDA content plus some excellent sales and marketing by Bill and Sanjay that got us into MS.
You don't just walk into MS and say 'pick my game'
In fact the 2 PocketPaks recently released would have been out before Christmas but for some mistakes by others. MS are very pleased with them and we hope to seem them go from strength to strength.
There is a lot more to this than non SDAs know. Unfortunately that rarely stops people from commenting as opposed to asking.
cheers
fleecy moss
cto
amiga inc
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Beat me to it Fleecy.
This is nothing but good news.
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Good news indeed!
Here's to all the people involved. :pint:
Congratulations!
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Well done Microsoft.
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@Paul_Gadd
Yup, even them! ;-) :-D
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Hey there,
I'm a SDA-guy and I agree that Amiga Inc. has added a lot to intent, which we use in our applications and on top of that provide us with support and opportunities.
Apart from that I want to say something else regarding all the crap that was posted on all Amiga related 'news'-sites.
All that stuff even got me down for a while and we've had quite a discussion on the SDA-list about it. Offcourse I'm under NDA and can't say much of what was said, but what I can say is that to me, Fleecy and Gary have cleared up everything I needed to know. I'm still developing for Amiga-Anywhere and so are a lot of other developers. They all have enough confidence in Amiga Inc. to put their time, money and efforts into a platform they believe in.
I can assure you that I wouldn't put this much time and effort into a platform and company if I didn't believe in them and I wouldn't work with these people if I didn't trust them.
As much as _SOME_ people would like to see Amiga Inc. fail, it looks like Amiga is here to stay for quite some time . And I'm planning on supporting them.
Regards,
Onno
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I'm a SDA-guy and I agree that Amiga Inc. has added a lot to intent [...]
Nice to hear :-D
Looking forward to see it as part of AmigaOS 4.x 8-)
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Apart from that I want to say something else regarding all the crap that was posted on all Amiga related 'news'-sites.
Your an SDA developer and you don't like this news item?
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One thing i have been wondering... if there is so many developers that are currently developing for AA, where are the games/apps?? We havent seen any new software for quite some time now, though Bill McEwen promised new apps when he was on TechTV.... And yeah this is better than nothing... Hope they succeed..
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@redrumloa
>>Your an SDA developer and you don't like this news item?
*yawn*
Come on, you know what he meant don't be pedantic.
AmiMonkey
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"Amiga Inc who have done absolutely nothing in this example except put their name on TAO's product."
Wayne, you are simply quite wrong here. The AmigaDE is much more than simply a re-badged Intent. If it were not, TAO would not be allowing them to do use their technology, would they?
See this analogy... the 'Intent' is the computer/CPU (a virtual one) and AmigaDE is a collection of API's/Wrappers/Engines AND Intent.
OS5 will be the AmigaOS running natively in that AmigaDE environment. This paramount goal will have AmigaOS running everywhere. The argument that 'AmigaDE is not an Amiga' does not hold up here, it is moreso an Amiga than AOS3.X running in an amiga emulator. OS5 will bear a resemblance to the earlier Amiga OS's and will bear ultimate scalability. It certainly will be more Amiga-like than MOS/AROS.
While you may be skeptical about OS5 ever being a reality (and I'm not saying you shouldn't be), it is simply wrong to say AmigaDE is Intent with a different name on it. That is simply not true.
While I by no means can be certain, I am confident that Amiga have been doing a lot more than man-handling court cases these last three years. They may be taking much longer than they said (and yes, I will accept that they -lied- occasionally), but the contract developers must have been doing something all this time, and indeed there is evidence of this.
Also, I am amazed by Bill McEwen's inability to foretell things accurately. Fleecy has oft stated on Amigaworld.net that 'Prediction is not an exact science', well that phrase is given a whole new meaning with Amiga Inc.
In 2000, for instance, Bill McEwen stated that OS4 should be ready in a few months. WHAT. What on earth could possess him to say such a thing? This is before they had Hyperion working on OS4 (at least I'm pretty sure it is). Why would he think that could be even remotely possible, and then have it turn out to be over 300% innacurate (and counting)? Was he just saying that to get people optimistic, disregarding the fact that they almost certainly would end up dissapointed? Or was their some grand plan we were never told about that fell through? Or did he simply have no grasp of the concept of OS programming and made a gross miscalculation on lack of experience? Either way, I don't trust McEwen for many reasons like this one, but there is more to Amiga Inc. than him and I think their motives are pure and their intended goals are very promising.
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OS5 will bear a resemblance to the earlier Amiga OS's and will bear ultimate scalability. It certainly will be more Amiga-like than MOS/AROS.
I'm hardly a MOS/AROS zealot, but I'm going to have to disagree a bit on this. OS5 would, I'm guessing, be based entirely on the new A2G technologies, and could only run OS4.x apps in a sandbox environment.
I like A inc's timetable through the 4.x series, but I have never got exactly how much of OS5 would be AmigaOS, or DE. Whatever happens, It's a bit early to be talking about OS5 now OS4 isn't even out :-)
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Hey, I just came from COMPUSA here in MD USA and the game pack I saw had the same games I have on my PocketPC not just one. I was walking in the isle and saw "Amiga" on a package and stopped to pick it up. I was surprised! Microsoft was on the bottom of the package while Amiga was at the top. Pretty cool I think.
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@quiesce
If I'm wrong, I apologize.
To be honest, I've never considered DE as Amiga-related, so I haven't really paid enough attention to bother. I have no need for a Wince machine.
As I also said, I am very glad that there's a possibility that you guys will be getting paid. I'm all for it.
What pisses me off more than anything is Bill McEwen and "Fleecy Moss" consistent and intentional inability to support the community.
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One thing i have been wondering... if there is so many developers that are currently developing for AA, where are the games/apps?? We havent seen any new software for quite some time now, though Bill McEwen promised new apps when he was on TechTV.... And yeah this is better than nothing... Hope they succeed..
The most important reason is probably that we are currently developing towards a newer version of intent-platform. The old player doesn't play the new apps, so there is no use in putting the new apps on the Amiga web-shop until there is a new Amiga-Anywhere player. Amiga Inc. is currently busy working on deals getting games onto cards. Apart from that it seems some more serious apps are in the works now, which take more time to develop.
Regards,
Onno
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@Wayne
I don't agree with you about the lack of support.
What support would you like to see?
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@wayne
>>What pisses me off more than anything is Bill McEwen and "Fleecy Moss" consistent and intentional inability to support the community.
One, its blatently not deliberate. In the words of bbrv "It's business."
Two, is this REALLY the thread to be bringing your well know, well repeated annoyances with amiga inc up in?
AmiMonkey
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Your an SDA developer and you don't like this news item?
Hey this is actual news and I like it.. I was talking about news :lol:
Regards,
Onno
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...intentional inability...
Is there such a thing? If someone has an inability to do something, can that really be intentional?
You might say someone in a wheel chair has an inability to walk, but I don't think that you can say that it is intentional.
Not that I aggree with anything you've said anyway.
AmigaGuy
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Nice!
Ok, perhaps no earthquake but any money/attention is
good money/attention!
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After reading the comments, this turned out to be the most
interesting thread on amiga.org in a long time!
Good to see the negative people doesn't rule supreme around
here.
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SlimJim
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Wayne wondered:
I'm beginning to wonder, in order to get paid, if software authors for the game packs ought to just go straight to Microsoft and cut out the middle man.
;-) It’s all about distribution. As I see it, Amiga’s role in this is akin to the distribution syndicates for the comic strips that we read in the newspapers. If you look closely at each strip’s copyright notice, you’ll see that they’re distributed by United Feature Syndicate, King Features Syndicate, Universal Press Syndicate, and so on.
:-? Can you imagine each comic strip’s author trying to sell his work to each paper in which it runs? Many of them are carried in hundreds of papers nationwide. It wouldn’t be feasible.
8-) Granted, Microsoft is Amiga, Inc.’s only customer so far, (that we know of) but there is the potential for more.
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@ Quixote
Not only the distribution, but the APIs used in the game have been developed by Amiga Inc - and we're talking about a lot of APIs (see fleecy's earlier comment)! Obviously, some people are prepared to ignore this fact and criticise amiga inc and call them redundant anyway - but there's no change there as per usual! :)
AmiMonkey
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Red, Wayne, any others from USA -
Have any of you actually been IN a CompUSA? The pocket pak in the link is NOT the 'famous game pack.' That card is just a collection of games and utilities MS put together from various sources.
I was in the local CompUSA TWO WEEKS AGO (Carousel Center for those who want to guess where) and saw the real Amiga Game Pack 1 with 4 Amiga DE games. It is a completely different backing card from the one shown in the link. It is all white with the Amiga logo above the game card, and the MS logo is waaaay down at the bottom of the card (I had to double check to find it!).
From Red's html link, go up one level (click on Expansion Packs in the header) and scroll down until you see BOTH Amiga game packs.
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SyrTran:
You mean these:
Amiga® Games Pocket Pak 1 for Pocket PCs (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=300465&pfp=BROWSE)
Amiga® Games MMC Pocket Pak 2 for Pocket PCs (http://amiga.org/forums/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8328&forum=1&40 )
I take it you're in Syracuse, NY. I'll have to check it out the next time I'm down there.
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*EDIT*
Don't back down Wayne.
I'm sure their product is CRAP or they would have it available to the public.
The entire purpose of an NDA like this, is to dodge any fair review. If they want a fair review, you don't have to ask, you should have been given a review copy. You do run the most popular Amiga website and it represents just about all we have in terms of fair journalism.
The fact is...I didn't sign an NDA when I bought Borland Turbo C, Pascal...when I installed Java, when I bought Visual Studio .NET, Powerbuilder....and on and on.
This is Fleecy Moss's usual, if one lie doesn't work, lie again.
Lots of developers hate the DE and consider it a joke.
If he want you to review it...he can send you a copy any time.
NDA stands for 'non disclosure'
Everyone else,
Borland
Microsoft
Sun
IBM
they build exposure for their products.
they want reviews
they encourage sales.
is he running a business or a cult over there?
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@Marktime
:whack:
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Lol! Brief and to the point :)
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This is nothing but good news.
Really? Oddly enough I was thinking...
"this is news??"
I mean, really. Microsoft packaged a game someone wrote. It did make the mailer, which is kind-of news, but then again, it's so hard to find, I wouldn't have noticed it, if I weren't looking for it. In fact, in the mailer, itself, I STILL HAVEN'T FOUND IT, looking through the PDFs. I found the pack in the HTML area, but only after multiple mouse-clicks before figuring out it was listed in the "Accessories" area, rather than the gaming or PDA sections.
I do wish the developers all the best, but is this really going to help? It half looks like it's being set up to fail!
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After reading the comments, this turned out to be the most
Totally agree there... I even regained some faith in AmigaINC...So now i really hope those rumours about new ceo, amiga inc is totally broke and so on... is just false lies.
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Not only the distribution, but the APIs used in the game have been developed by Amiga Inc - and we're talking about a lot of APIs (see fleecy's earlier comment)! Obviously, some people are prepared to ignore this fact and criticise amiga inc and call them redundant anyway - but there's no change there as per usual! :)
The problem is that its very hard for US regular non developers to get any info... Amiga INC arent saying anything to the average joe, so its very hard for us to know whats going on behind the scenes.. To me who isnt a AA developer, it seems like the project is buried.
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I'm also an SDA developer and I recognize how hard it can be to see the light in the tunnel when you don't get enough info and you have hords of people with their own agendas or they are simply egotripping blurring the whole picture using the classical divide and conquer tactic.
I'm glad several here felt reassured after reading Onno's, Fleecy's and the other comments by people that actually know what they are talking about.
comments by Wayne about not going directly to Microsoft; Amiga provides lots of services to the developers, instant support, QA of products, providing resources for presentation and development of games, acquiring exclusive deals like the one with Microsoft (I for sure couldn't have pulled that by myself), of course building the easy-to-use and developer-focused APIs taht Fleecy mentioned and more. Hell I've had lots of laughs and good times by just chatting/communicating with Amiga employees and other developers.
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Amiga Anywhere is very much an Amiga product and its potential for the future is very promisng indeed.
It provides a way for those developers that are supporting it to sell thier product not just on the Amiga Platform, but on many others as well.If they only had the Amiga community to rely on, the chances of making profitable products would be seriously reduced to impossible.
This also relates directly to porting existing products to the Amiga.Once again the userbase is so small that making profit from such a venture is difficult.
This brings greater confidence from developers, which means more software available for the Amiga, and thats the key.Without new software the amiga is dead. and AA is a good way to bring that software support to the amiga community.
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Anyhow Wayne's point is as valid as anyone else's. He calls it as he sees it. Same with myself, I call it as I see it. Sometimes the Amiga Inc fans agree, sometimes they don't.
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I see your point and I tend to agree, although I commented his comment not his person, so I can't see how that would be an insult, I could of course have dropped that adjective and apologize if it was taken as an insult.
However I think Wayne has been pretty well-informed and knowing lots of what has been happening at Amiga and what they have provided and created so I regarded his comment more as a provocation (the reason I addedt the on purpose question in parenthesis) rather than an sincere question.
My point really is, and I guess you too would agree, that it's obvious this opportunity would've been much harder to get if a developer was to make contact with Microsoft all by herself or even somehow talk TAO into making the framework Amiga has made and are still developing.
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@Wayne
Being one of the first in the chain of support, along with Gary Peake, I can tell you that this is flat out wrong.
I've received hundreds, if not thousands, of support questions and there are very few, if any, that don't get answered.
We have many support maling lists and developer and community forums. If one chooses not to use them, then that is not Amiga's fault. If you are not getting support, then you are either asking the wrong questions (e.g. questions about who our CEO is or what time employee X takes his washroom break) or someother strange phenomena is occurring. :-?
If this isn't the type of support you are expecting, please elaborate and I'll tell you where to go, to get the support you desire.
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HMetal name some community forums/etc that are here because of amiga.inc (make like you're pointing us where to get support) ???
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Excuse me, but what is so technologically challenging in a crossword puzzle? Add to that, that I dislike Microsoft a lot... I wouldn't even buy a crossword puzzle for my palm if it was platform independent and available for that (which isn't the case).
Yet, despite all this, it's a good thing IMO. Better than nothing. Hope to see something more serious though.
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The argument that 'AmigaDE is not an Amiga' does not hold up here
so if I spend my money to get AmigaDE then I can run classic amiga apps/games/etc all from within DE? I can run DE on my Amiga? or do I need a PC to run DE? or what?... gimme the rundown on that one...from where I'm sitting AmigaDE is a piece of PDA software with the Amiga name on it... and nothing more... perhaps I'm wrong???
I will accept that they -lied- occasionally
to me thats unacceptable...
I am amazed by Bill McEwen's inability to foretell things accurately
hah
Bill McEwen stated that OS4 should be ready in a few months. WHAT. What on earth could possess him to say such a thing?
wanted to look cool??!?!??!? I honestly dont know...but since fleecy is posting here perhaps he can explain this...
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"so if I spend my money to get AmigaDE then I can run classic amiga apps/games/etc all from within DE? I can run DE on my Amiga? or do I need a PC to run DE? or what?... gimme the rundown on that one...from where I'm sitting AmigaDE is a piece of PDA software with the Amiga name on it... and nothing more... perhaps I'm wrong???"
In its current state it only exists for PDA's, Windows and Linux, but I'm sure you're not so naive as to not realise it is still in development.
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In its current state it only exists for PDA's, Windows and Linux, but I'm sure you're not so naive as to not realise it is still in development.
yes its obviousely still in development... but above you claimed that the argument that its 'AmigaDE is not an Amiga' dosent hold water ... well I ask 'what makes it an amiga' besides the name then?... surely you can even answer this question?
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@mips_proc
Surely you jest. :-?
Proceed to the main Amiga Inc Portal (http://www.amiga.com) where you will find an image map to our subsites. From there, click on os.amiga.com (the AmigaOS site) where you will find a
forums (http://os.amiga.com/forums/) link in the menu. This is for AmigaOS and AmigaOne users to discuss the OS. There is even a "chatter" forum for general chatter.
Are you a developer? From the main portal image map, proceed to the Amiga Support Network (amigadev.net) where you will find a forums (http://www.amigadev.net/forums/) tab at the top, just below the site logo.
Also, while you're at the amigadev.net site, look at our mailing lists (http://www.amigadev.net/index.php?subpage=home&function=showmaillists). Feel free to join any to which you are interested.
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Ray,
{edit: nevermind... I cannot be arsed with you and "Fleecy's" lies any longer. The truth is coming.}
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I cannot be arsed with you and "Fleecy's" lies any longer. The truth is coming
Oh come on Wayne. We're finally having a more positive discussion here where people are actually communicating in a friendly manner with respect towards each other and you publically start name-calling again.
I appreciate this is your site and you can do with it whatever you like and I like amiga.org a lot, but if you have anything to say you can at least try to state your opinion in a more appropriate way, can't you? You always used to do so some time ago and I respected your opinion a lot more back then.... even when I disagreed with you on the subject.
Regards,
Onno
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@wayne ... you're making me wanna order as many cam subs as I can afford ... and frankly I hope the truth blows up in your face with the arrogance as of late ... I can honestly say I have no clue as to all the details but I will never claim otherwise, and anyone who does is a fool.
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It's like ma bug used to say to me: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."... Or at least explain yourself.
I've enjoyed reading the replies here anyway. If anything good can be said about the constant whining, it is that it inspires ppl like Fleecy to post when they otherwise wouldn't bother.
But, in general, the bitching is really beginning to depress me.
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Guys, you really shouldnt be surprisied by Wayne's responses. Negative? Maybe. Waranted? Absolutely.
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You always used to do so some time ago
"Some Time ago" I wasn't continually lied to, threatened by and schemed against by "Fleecy" and the likes of Mike Bouma and others. Well that's not entirely true. I've consistently been lied to by "Fleecy" since 1997. When confronted with this, including times, locations, and subjects, he says simply that it's his job to "market speak", and he learned that lesson when he was "canned by Schindler".
I for one am completely sick of the half-truths, hot air (aka real soon now promises) and outright bullshit from Amiga Inc. As such, I will do anything I can to unveil the truth in this situation for everyone involved. If the Amiga Inc followers don't like the truth, that's neither my fault, nor my problem.
As a start, I intend to matt, frame, and auction off the business card which "does not exist" at AmiWest. 100% of the proceeds going to Bolton Peck and his family (pending his agreement). There will also be several things I'll be handing out there which will provide irrefutable proof of the facts in this situation.
Again, the truth is coming. Amiga Inc's only remaining choice is the messenger. Them, or me.
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you're making me wanna order as many cam subs as I can afford
You go right ahead and do so. I'm sure that Bolton would appreciate being paid.
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:lol: Wheeeeeeeee! This is getting juicy! :lol:
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As a start, I intend to matt, frame, and auction off the business card which "does not exist" at AmiWest
for the record for $50 locally I can get you a whole box of those that will look identical in every aspect.. haha just because it looks authentic doesn't mean it is... but I don't claim to know if it is or isn't real.
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A few words :
1) Is the DE an Amiga, or even Amiga-related ? Only by name.
Sure it is nice tech, but it is not even as close tio being
"Amiga" as RiscOS/PC,BeOS/BOX or even QNX. Suggesting it would
be more "Amiga" than MOS or AROS is just insane.
2) Is the DE worth to be considered for developers ?
Not in it's current state. I'm quite sure that developing for
CE/.net is easier, maybe even cheaper if you put licence-fees/SDA
into the calc.
That's why most of the "big" Amiga-SW-companies never did anything
for the DE or have bailed out pretty soon (take epic as an example).
3) Do I believe in the super-secret updates, and plenty of SW "real soon" ?
Not after having heard the exact same stuff by the exact same
people over the last year (and it was pretty much the same
when I "left" in mid 2000).
3) Do I think that this the light at the end of the tunnel for AI ?
Not really, cos to many companies want to have a share of those
game-packs, and it isn't really ground-breaking for PDA-gaming.
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I for one am completely sick of the half-truths, hot air (aka real soon now promises) and outright bullshit from Amiga Inc.
And a lot of other peope are sick of name-calling etc. If you have issues with them, why resort to public name-calling. I know from earlier postings that you are very good expressing your opinion in a clear and non-abusive matter. Those comments made a real impression on me and made me look seriously at the points you put forward. Sometimes you even made me change my views because of proper arguments I hadn't thought of. The way you are expressing your views now just makes you look like any one of those people yelling, screaming, cursing and bitching on forums.. I know you are better than that.
As I stated earlier. I trust the guys at Amiga Inc. and they seem vey sincere to me. Maybe I am wrong and you are right, but at least I haven't found Fleecy or Ray name-calling others in public places.
If you have true evidence and you're so sure you can expose them it means you have a strong case and there's even less reason for your way of talking. More people will listen to your story if you base it on facts and restrain yourself from cursing and shouting.
Regards,
Onno
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This topic is about Microsoft so why even mention Amiga Inc ?
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Onno,
You have a point. As such, I thank you for your calm, logical input.
I have proof, I am getting more. The truth will come out whether they want it to or not. There is no more reason for me to say anything here, except due to my outright frustration with them. If you're pleased with them, that's your deal. Your mileage obviously varies.
In regards to Ray or Fleecy calling people names, you might need to look around a bit closer. Since we allow message editing, I'm having trouble locating a few of the known examples on our site, but they are out there.
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@wayne
I totally aggree with Ohno.
People claim that all Amiga Inc. has to do is "tell the truth". That the truth will set them free. "Why hide things?" people say. Just set it all out on the table right?
Well then, why is it O.k. for you to hide behind "The truth is coming." ?? Why the delay??
It just seems a like a double standard to me.
AmigaGuy
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@fleecy
You know, not stating these things and, more to the point,
demonstrating them publically, you won't win people *to* the platform
that way. I'd highly recommend getting someone onboard that knows
such minor things as MARKETING.
You see, if this list was posted to the AInc website, with more
details on these various elements, you'd gain developer curiosity.
And as any marketing guy can tell you, curiosity is what turned the
dead cat into a gold mine.
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@amigaguy
There has been facts coming out, but people will believe what they want to believe. You cant force someone to "wake up and smell the coffee". All you can do is present MORE evidence when it comes available.
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Why the delay??
Because quite simply stated, not everything that I have requested is in my possession at this time. I've seen them, I know they are true, I just do not have the physical hard copies in my possession yet to present to the Amiga community.
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@ Wayne
This is not to insult You, but have You checked Your sources???
Do You have other sources than the friend (claims he is a pur ex-Amiga employee) of Your MorphOS friend (one of Your moderators), and the friend (Gary Hare) of a friend of the "enemy" (bbrv) of Amiga Inc.???
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I'm not insulted, and yes, I am very certain of my sources. Those sources will be presented soon as I receive them in my hand.
I'm not going to say any more here. There is, as ohno pointed out, no need to SAY anything more.
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1) Is the DE an Amiga, or even Amiga-related ? Only by name.
Well.. it's not called Amiga, but it is Amiga-Anywhere. It will be integrated into Amiga-OS which will make it more Amiga. For now hasn't got much to do with the classic Amiga's as we know it apart from the name. You are right there.
BUT. A lot of things in Amiga-Anywhere/DE actually remind me of the classic Amiga. Low memory footprint, optimized resource-usage and fun to develop for.
But you shouldn't look at DE as an operating system, but as a virtual computer system that needs to be programmed. Amiga is developing software for this environment to be more Amiga-alike. Remember how you could always insert a floppy into the classic Amiga and the game/application would start up? You didn't need to know anything about the Amiga to be able to use it and play games on it. Now we have something similar on PDA's. You can insert the SD-card and instantly you can play games. Most games I've had so far for my iPAQ required me to link up the iPAQ to my PC and install the application from within Windows.
2) Is the DE worth to be considered for developers ?
Depends on the developer I guess. Some people will still find it too rough around the edges.. some won't. I like to develop for this platform and help build it's future. And when I develop in java I can assure you that it's not any harder than developing in CE/.NET. C/C++ is harder and takes more time to develop in and Assembly is very low-level thus very time-consuming. But I do like it.
3) Do I believe in the super-secret updates, and plenty of SW "real soon" ?
You don't have to believe it if you don't have to.
3) Do I think that this the light at the end of the tunnel for AI ?
You're saying that too many companies want to have a share of those game-packs. Depends on what gamepack you mean. The one advertised here at compUSA only has one title I think which is Amiga-content? The Amiga Pocket Paks however have only two companies involved in them. Amiga and M$. M$ will take a share because they market it and put it out there. Amiga Inc. built the cards and delivered the content. Not very much companies taking a share I think. Unless you mean The developers who get paid for their content on those cards? Well.. yes.. they should get their share I think.
Regards,
Onno
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@Wayne
Even if you had hard evidence about those liars it would mean piss all when all you will see is loads of people ready to go in to battle covering up all sorts to protect their great company.
Amiga Inc are involved in fraud and deception it is simple as that and how the hell people can turn a blind eye while their fellow Amigans are getting shafted is just madness.
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Well lets see
Bill McEwen is kicked out "he's gone"
Gary Hare is now CEO
A dutch firm has bought 50% of A inc.
This still is not enough for you Wayne, now you are going to AmiWest to make a rukus?
Don't forget your blue suit with the red boots cape and undies on the outside and a big "W" on the chest.
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@ Wayne
[Funmode]Your avatar is also proof that You are a Genesi freak ... God is a woman (Raquel) and Buck must be Jesus[/Funmode]
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This still is not enough for you Wayne, now you are going to AmiWest to make a rukus?
I am going there to tell the truth. If that makes me a disciple of any kind, then fine. It doesn't matter what you think. It's not about me. It's not about Bill Buck. It's not about Genesi. This is about the truth.
The Amiga community is owed nothing less than the truth and if I have to be "nailed to the cross" to get it, so be it.
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You have a point. As such, I thank you for your calm, logical input.
Well. thank you for listening.
I have proof, I am getting more. The truth will come out whether they want it to or not. There is no more reason for me to say anything here, except due to my outright frustration with them. If you're pleased with them, that's your deal. Your mileage obviously varies.
Well.. obviously. Whatever proof you have I'm anxious to see it myself. Maybe you're able to make me change my mind with that proof, or maybe Fleecy and co. have a good and valid explanation for me on the SDA-list when your evidence comes out. As long as you provide facts and proper arguments to back up your claims I'm interested. For now, after the discussion on the SDA-list, I see no reason to not trust Amiga Inc. As always opinions will vary but personally I find it quite a coincidense that everything bad that happened the last few years seems to come out at about the same time, just when Amiga-Anywhere products are shipping, Amiga One boards are sent out in quantity and OAS4 is nearing completion. I'm sure a whole lot of other rumours will appear soon when AOS4 itself ships. I for one am not going to believe these rumours without first having heard Amiga Inc's. side of the story.
In regards to Ray or Fleecy calling people names, you might need to look around a bit closer. Since we allow message editing, I'm having trouble locating a few of the known examples on our site, but they are out there.
OK. If you say so. Let's rephrase then: I've never actually SEEN Fleecy or Ray name-calling in public, even when they were being attacked and insulted. Maybe I missed it.
Jee.. it looks like I'm missing a lot, doesn't it? :-P
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if I have to be "nailed to the cross" to get it, so be it.
Ohh..Jesus Christ!!!! (pun intended)
While it's great you want to protect "your" flock. I think most of us grownups are capable if making our own decisions. Sorry if 'you' think those choices are bad, but since this is not a government nor a religion I guess I don't have worry about any punishment.
It's noble that you want to help. I think it's great that you want to share "the truth". Please do so. But your not our Dad, nor our savior.
AmigaGuy
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@Amigaguy
You take me far too literally, but I -- like most people who try to expose the truth -- am feeling rather crucified in this situation.
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It's noble that you want to help. I think it's great that you want to share "the truth". Please do so. But your not our Dad, nor our savior.
Then people should ACT like adults and not children.
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Then people should ACT like adults and not children.
You mean like not talking trash "until" you actually have some evidence and are "ready" to show others??
AmigaGuy
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You mean like not talking trash "until" you actually have some evidence and are "ready" to show others??
''
This is going in circles :crazy:
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Not only the distribution, but the APIs used in the game have been developed by Amiga Inc - and we're talking about a lot of APIs (see fleecy's earlier comment)! Obviously, some people are prepared to ignore this fact and criticise amiga inc and call them redundant anyway - but there's no change there as per usual! :)
The problem is that its very hard for US regular non developers to get any info... Amiga INC arent saying anything to the average joe, so its very hard for us to know whats going on behind the scenes.. To me who isnt a AA developer, it seems like the project is buried.
Actually it can be pretty hard for developers to get info too. I signed the NDA straight away, figured I might sign an SDA later on if/when I needed extra support or when my project was nearer to completion when I would decide whether I should also sell out to MS to make some $.
If I had known about these API's being available to SDA developers I would have made that decision a lot sooner and may have saved a lot of time.
Signing that SDA isn't something that all of us take in their stride and more information needs to be made available for developers on amigadev.net. I've had to spend a lot of time scouring the web, subscribing to lists and reading many different forums just to pick up a few tidbits.. Luckily I recently stumbled upon a link on some 3rd party site to the #developer channel that I had searched for and failed to find earlier on all the popular irc networks so I no longer feel like I'm going at it alone. (it's on irc.reefer.org btw)
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This is going in circles
Yeah, yeah...In the mean time why don't you guys through a bunch of FUD out there and with claims of "Well, we'll have proof real soon now!". The fact that we've never seen any hard copies of it, but expect to recieve soom "real soon"....well, that doesn't matter.
AmigaGuy
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Yeah, yeah...In the mean time why don't you guys through a bunch of FUD out there and with claims of "Well, we'll have proof real soon now!". .
For the last time facts have been presented, many refuse to accept them. Wayne will have more, undisputble evidence this time, soon enough. I'm pretty sure I know what he's talking about, and it will be undeniable. That's not FUD. FUD is claiming a comeptitor's product is illegal.
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so amigaguy you think wayne and others should keep quiet while (possibly) lies are bieng told to us and us grownups (without knowledge of situation wich would make us change our minds quite possibly) go on believeing Bill is the CEO, and their 'on schedule and rockin' as they said?... I for one want all the facts of this situation available so I can make an informed descision... I've seen the evasive answers to questions posed to amiga.inc employees.. I want to see MORE then amiga.inc's side of this story... I think most of us do who have a brain left...
I for one dont trust Amiga.inc and in my eyes they have massively devaluated the Amiga name... 2 years ago I wanted my Pegasos to say 'Amiga' and run 'AmigaOS'... not I want my pegasos to stay a Pegasos and run MorphOS... I believe what I read about them as It appears to be backed up by good sources... e.g when asked about CEO situation they failed to answer non-evasive (makes me think the other side is telling the truth), the evasive answers to the t-shirt/coupon deal, the whole thing with bolton peck... the list goes on... to me if 1% is true its pathetic... Its my two cents on the issue.. thats all
(the above is my OPINON not a fact)
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Wow 100 comments to a news item. Must have been good news:-)
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@red
As far as I'm aware FUD stands for Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.
Wayne will have more, undisputble evidence this time, soon enough. I'm pretty sure I know what he's talking about,
This is the kind a cr*p I'm talking about "Wayne will have..." Then you say, "I'm pretty sure I know what he's talking about" You sound so sure that Wayne will have evidence, but then you say you don't even know what it is. I find it hard to believe that you can be certain if "you" don't even know what the hell is he "supposedly" getting.
@mips
I don't think he should be quiet. I think, since he doesn't have any of his proof yet, that if he is going to start "bashing" then he should at least say "What" evidence he is expecting to recieve and "How" that evidence relates to his "Claims".
Just throwing out FUD and saying that I'll have proof someday, but I'm keeping my mouth shut about the proof for now doesn't cut it.
Either don't say anything, or present your "Bashing" with "what evidence" you are basing it on. Just because he doesn't have hard copies doesn't mean he can't talk about the "evidence" since apparently he can "bash" without it.
AmigaGuy
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.
As far as I'm aware FUD stands for Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.
Yeah I know, like stating you are going to shut down your "illegal' competitor.
If I'm not mistaken you posted earlier you havnt been around lately, so how would you know if evidence has been presented? Besides anyoen who's been paying attention knows what Wayne is talking about. The "evidence" isnt exactly an impossibilty to get. Anyne with a word processor(or a pen), a blank sheet of paper, an envelope and a stamp can obtain the evidence.
But it seems from your recomendations and other, Wayne would rather say no more until he has the evidence in hand, so i don't want to spoil his surprise. :-D
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Man this is so funny.
When the Gary Hare stuff and the Dutch company buying em out stuff was on everyone was saying woohoo.B McEwen is out, now we might get some truth out of em, blah blah blah.
Now thats all blown over and its back to Amiga Inc. is just a bunch of pricks, they lie and cheat and scam.
I wish you people would make up your mind
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the evidence we've seen so far when subjectively viewed by the community convinces at least some already... myself included... you might ask 'what evidence?" I say to that and this is in my opinon of course... since this is subjective... \
the evasiveness of Ray when I asked him the simple question to the effect of 'did bill write/convey bills update?" he was evasive to that...
the business card
the (unconfirmed) story of Bolton Peck
the T-shirt/coupon situation...
these all combine in my mind to be enough proof to at a minimum tell me 'their is something wrong with this picture'
I think when we see all the evidence presented things will be alot better all around...
@Wayne
start the bidding on the business card at 25$ ... because if someone dosent pay more I'll buy it :) I think you should put a piece of paper under the card and get some signatures on it for nostalgia...
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Amiga Inc are just glorified criminals who are up to their necks with all this stuff and use their fans as emotional shields
I wonder what other illegal activities those guys are involved in.
You would think they would stop after fraud and deception but no they will keep at it until they have enough money to run away.
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104 comments ??? :-?
On such an, in principle, uncomment worthy piece of news!!! :roll:
I didn't read it but probably 15 to 20 people are talking about the crap from last week again whilst this really is minority talk.
No one is going to hear you people!
95 % of the userbase isn't really interested in this crap or hasen't even heard it. Have you all so less to do that you can waste your time on convincing other people that are not going to be convinced.
:-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-?
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@PulsatingQuasar
Have you all so less to do that you can waste your time on convincing other people that are not going to be convinced.
I'm at work, so no I have nothing better to do :)
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OS5 will be the AmigaOS running natively in that AmigaDE environment. This paramount goal will have AmigaOS running everywhere. The argument that 'AmigaDE is not an Amiga' does not hold up here, it is moreso an Amiga than AOS3.X running in an amiga emulator. OS5 will bear a resemblance to the earlier Amiga OS's and will bear ultimate scalability. It certainly will be more Amiga-like than MOS/AROS.
Sound like the current AmigaOne situation i.e. the machine** is ready but the AmigaOS 4.0 is not ready for RTM (Released To Manufacturing).
**Referring to Tao's Virtual Processor and related technologies.
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NDA stands for 'non disclosure'
Everyone else,
Borland
Microsoft
Sun
IBM
they build exposure for their products.
they want reviews
they encourage sales.
Not all of Microsoft's projects are available to beta testing public e.g. MS Windows 2000 64bit Alpha** Edition (use for internal development) (unless they are leaked).
**For the DEC Alpha processor platform .
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1) Is the DE an Amiga, or even Amiga-related ? Only by name.
Sure it is nice tech, but it is not even as close tio being "Amiga" as RiscOS/PC,BeOS/BOX or even QNX. Suggesting it would be more "Amiga" than MOS or AROS is just insane.
Unlike the ‘other’ products, DE has a official development future with Amiga. A scenario similar to the AmigaOne and AmigaOS 4.0.
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@Wayne:
You take me far too literally, but I -- like most people who try to expose the truth -- am feeling rather crucified in this situation.
Bringing out the truth can be good, if
- the evidence is substantial and true
- you know what you are doing and thought of the implications it will have
- you do it for the right reasons
(and NO, i'm not saying you lack one of the above;-))
I would like to know the truth too. Keep one thing in mind though...a team of 30 or so people have been doing their best to make OS4 a reality. Have you thought on the implications it may have on that project (i hope you have)? I really don't hope that your personal crusade against AmigaInc (as this is a personal thing, i think) will not damage OS4. Because, fact is that it will have consequences on that, whatever the contract between both parties.
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Like I said, it's a good thing that they got SOMETHING out. I just don't understand why Microsoft doesn't just set up a department to work with TAO to write the stuff.
That would involve extra manpower being allocated for yet another project. Note that dotNET Linux port was being “outsourced”(i.e. contracted to an other company). Microsoft has limits in regards to availability of manpower, funds and time.
Microsoft is thinly spread from creating MS Games (e.g. under Anvil label)(both X-BOX and X86 Windows PCs/Servers), Official MS driver support, MS Office product families, MS Visual Studio families, MS Operating systems families**, MS related services (e.g. Bcentral, MSN and etc).
**On going product development of Anvil (a.k.a. Windows XP/2003 AMD 64 families**** and Longhorn (the next generation of Windows).
Does anyone notice the relationship with MS’s games Anvil label (e.g. Freelancer) and Anvil code-name for Windows AMD64 Edition? (Another topic)
As with any human enterprise, Microsoft has limits.
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"@Amigaguy
You take me far too literally, but I -- like most people who try to expose the truth -- am feeling rather crucified in this situation."
Then change your avatar.
Anyway, why does those proves take so long to get?
Not saying they don't exist, I just can't follow these discussions anymore.
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I assume they are Judical Information Requests to the Washington State Courts System along with other information request to other Washington State agencies. It'll take some time. Though it would be nice it if was all online.
Surf over to http://www.wa.gov or http://www.courts.wa.gov and see what you can find. The information request is a downloadable form.
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re: censor -> no humor
Tough crowd. I worked really hard on that for 5 minutes in Perfect Paint. Oh..well....
AmigaGuy
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@mips_proc
Evasiveness? I think not. All it takes is for you to realize that when something is posted on the OFFICIAL AMIGA SITE with BILL'S SIGNATURE/TAGLINE on it, then it was written by Bill himself as has been the case since day 1. I'm sorry to say that Bill doesn't have a speech writer. That was a different Bill, who had a certain now infamous intern. :-)
Deny it all you want, but this is fact.
Answers to the rest will just have to wait until Amiga's ducks (both legal and corporate) are all in a row and then you'll see resolution and announcements to resolve them. That's all I can say about it at this time.
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Answers to the rest will just have to wait until Amiga's ducks (both legal and corporate) are all in a row and then you'll see resolution and announcements to resolve them. That's all I can say about it at this time.
Wow. I must be getting paranoid in my old age, because I see this as a threat.
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@Wayne
WTF??! A threat to whom? Hey, stay away from the green buds, they're making you paranoid (or are they?). :lol:
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[color=0000FF]Bravo![/color][/b][/i] :-)
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well HMetal when I say evasive I mean that before in another thread I asked if Bill wrote/typed or conveyed Bills update and you didnt say 'yes he did' ..you said it was offical...but not that those where his own words... maybe I misunderstood if so I'm sincerely sorry...but it seemed a bit evasive in my opinon...
I'm glad to hear amiga will be clearing things up... do I believe it? I'll believe it when I see it... but for now its better then a puff of smoke...
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"Troll" "Jerk" "fire a tire mechanic"(in a VERY abusive context).
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You mean like not talking trash "until" you actually have some evidence and are "ready" to show others??
--
Let me check:
I talk... "trash"? You name it...
Evidence... I do have.
Ready to show evidence? We showed a lot of it, you
considered it to be fake...
Now, who's acting like a child?
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I wonder where you find the money to get lawyers
if you can't pay Bolton and the Washington state:)))
Ah... for the first time, I'll directly insult you...
You're a liar.
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Let me check:
I talk... "trash"? You name it...
I wasn't refering to you.
Evidence... I do have.
Ready to show evidence? We showed a lot of it, you
considered it to be fake...
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I can tell what has been digitally edited such cards
an what has been not...
"That" is only a very small part of it...
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I think it would be wise to wait until Wayne and others gather and display all evidence... I really cant object to that type of thinking... its always wise to wait... for some of us we've seen enough to believe ...
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They can't gather "all" the evidence yet. It's not all out there yet. The story is far from over. :-D
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It's the Never-Ending Story... I think we're going to need another Luck Dragon.
This is really starting to feel like a murder mystery or a scavanger hunt...