Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: ikir on April 07, 2003, 01:37:27 PM
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Fleecy Moss (Amiga Inc. CTO) replies to another 10 basic questions from amiga users.
Week 4 (http://amigaworld.net/modules/fleecymoss/index.php?cat_id=5)
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Yawn. Another news item that contains no news.
For gawdssake, if you insist that Fleecy's answers are news every week, please reproduce them here.
Just posting a link to another site should be against the amiga.org rules dammit. It's blatant advertising.
What is so hard to understand about the requirement that a news item must contain news?
I'll go as far as to suggest this item should now be removed from the news section and placed into one of the forums.
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It contains news in the form of question answers.
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@Bill,
Yawn. Another news item that contains no news.
Yawn. Another whinge from Bill that contains no substance but perhaps a hint of bitterness. ;-)
For gawdssake, if you insist that Fleecy's answers are news every week, please reproduce them here.
I'd have no problem with that. In fact, I think that would be a good thing and would welcome it.
Just posting a link to another site should be against the amiga.org rules dammit. It's blatant advertising.
Wouldn't this logic dictate that all other links be removed? Blatant advertising, after all. ;-)
What is so hard to understand about the requirement that a news item must contain news?
What is so hard to understand about the fact that some of the answers *are* considered news. You know, something that we were not previously aware of?
dictionary.com definition (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=news) number 2:
2. New information of any kind. :roll:
I'll go as far as to suggest this item should now be removed from the news section and placed into one of the forums.
I'll go as far as to suggest that it *really* looks as though you take this personally and ought to give it a rest. Constant whinging about this not being news makes you look childish.
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From Fleecy's answer to question #10:
Fleecy: As I said before we are closely watching the Apple strategy with Safari. We have had contact with Real Networks and other providers of Internet technology but most provide the same answer. Show us a viable platform or show us a lot of money. Both are not available at the moment.
Exactly. It's April 2003 already and it is time to show the world (developers at least) where development on AmigaOS4 is.
It is possible that a coder who started on an Amiga then moved to Windows Win32 might find it easier to port a web browser such as k-meleon (http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/start/) to Amiga, instead of Safari.
Eyetech plan on using the AmigaONE Motherboard in a linux server. How this will benefit Hyperion or AmigaInc who need to get AmigaOS4 running on as many platforms as possible, I do not know.
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Eyetech plan on using the AmigaONE Motherboard in a linux server. How this will benefit Hyperion or AmigaInc who need to get AmigaOS4 running on as many platforms as possible, I do not know.
It will help by having increased sales of motherboards, which will allow further development and lower prices.
Not to mention that a good number of the people that might buy a board for Linux may be x-Amigans or know about Amiga and may want to try it.
Can't Hurt!
Loki :-D
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I know this is going to be a 50+ long thread, so I'm getting my word in before it happens! I'll keep it short and sweet:
Further away OS4 release = less users it will have.
Further away than Jan 2004 = OS4 dead.
No amount of Q&A changes these facts.
Ok, that's me finished. Flame away. :flame:
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Yawn. Another whinge from Bill that contains no substance but perhaps a hint of bitterness.
I'm very full of bitterness and I admit it! But that doesn't change the fact I happen to agree with Mr Hogget:-)
Then again annoying or not, this news item isn't hurting anything. Well, except my brain cells which it is killing at an alarming rate :-x
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Is anyone else getting sick of reading all this free advertising that is being done for that site (that should remain nameless)? If this is going to be regular posting, it's high time they cough up the money and paid amiga.org's pervailing advertising rates.
Dammy
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I know this is going to be a 50+ long thread, so I'm getting my word in before it happens! I'll keep it short and sweet:
Good points. I just read the Q/A myself and there's nothing really surprising.
The low-cost AmigaOne? Sounds like what Allen was talking about at that show 2 weeks back.
About PPC in general- ever wonder why you can get a 'x86 Linux box for under $200 U.S.- it's got to do with volumn (ok, and no Win-tax either), if we want to get cheaper AmigaOnes, selling more PPC Linux boxes is a good first step. Seriously, Apple sort of has its nitch, while Linux is a growing market, so latching onto this with a PPC Linux server is a smart move. It's going to benifit all of us- Linux-heads and Amiga nuts alike.
OS5?
Well I think Fleecy was right- it's a fair ways off, we're all still waiting for OS4.
AmigaDE?
Well, I don't he said anything that isn't known to be true by developers or the general community.
Real Audio, etc. ?
I'd like to see a player in OS4 too, but considering money issues, I doubt they are in the position to have Real licence the RealPlayer. On the other hand, maybe we should be backing something like icecast untill that comes about.
Bear in mind that even on GNU/Linux, support for RealAudio is skimpy (an unsupported player) and things like DVD playback are also in legal limbo.
All in all, another worthwhile read, keep posting them Amiga.org!
Zoltan
www.ZEE4.com
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@Wilse,
I think everyone should just get used to repetitive answers.
That is the strategy of Amiga, Inc., just to repeat themselves
constantly. So the critics are then forced to repeat themselves as well.
50 repetitive answers about various questions doesn't mean that Amiga, Inc.
has delivered the t-shirts. It doesn't mean that they have
explained why they lied in the past. It doesn't mean OS 4 is now
shipping.
What is the point? They gave answers before, they didn't mean anything.
The point is, there is a small minority of Amiga users that want information at all costs, even if the cost is integrity. In other words, they want information, even if that information is speculative..a mere guess...even if that information is unture...even if that information causes other people to make bad purchasing decisions...or to lose $100, or $50 dollars, etc....
They are a little cult, and they are willing to lose some money, and more importantly, they are willing to encourage others to lose money...and the most astonishing thing, is since Amiga Inc. has so far failed to deliver much of anything, they have taken this apparant problem and solved it, with the amazing proposition, that it is OK, if Amiga, Inc. fails to deliver anything....as long as they keep communicating.
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Poster: redrumloa Date: 2003/4/7 10:35:33
Then again annoying or not, this news item isn't hurting anything. Well, except my brain cells which it is killing at an alarming rate
This isn't "news", it's free advertising. It would be one thing if there was once a blue moon, but this is blatant advertising of another site. They are taking advantage of Amiga.org's posting policy. IMO, if they are going to continue this behavior, they need to be paying Amiga.org for their use of this web site to advertise their own.
Dammy
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Who cares what Fleecy says, same old talk with no action.
The thread of this on Ann is getting juicy :-)
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@dammy,
I agree. No more of them will be posted as news.
@everyone else
I see absolutely no real answers to anything here. This is just "Fleecy's" feeble attempt at destroying Amiga.org's popularity by spewing incredibly vague "answers" on another site to products that Amiga Inc has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with.
At least I know he'll have a safe future as 1-900-mr.-cleo once Amiga Inc admits they're dead-ended and out of money.
Then again, having heard substantial rumors lately of bank accounts closed and other interesting oddities, maybe they already have and news simply hasn't reached "Fleecy".
For the record, if you MUST post these in the future, please do it as a Forum post where it is most appropriate. Use the topic title "Fleecy's Fluff, week number #" if you will.
Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org
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This isn't "news", it's free advertising.
I disagree. If a site called "Amiga.org" doesn't cover an interview (and yes, I know the questions are picked, but that's quite common in news now, unfortunately) with CTO of Amiga, well what is news then?
I like amiga.org for the fact that it covers a lot of news. Heck, I've got limited interest in BeOS, MorphOS or any of the others, but if you don't want to read it, do what I do: skip it.
Zoltan
www.ZEE4.com
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disagree. If a site called "Amiga.org" doesn't cover an interview (and yes, I know the questions are picked, but that's quite common in news now, unfortunately) with CTO of Amiga, well what is news then?
If the CTO was doing an out-of-the-blue-moon Q&A session, it would be news. Rather instead, it's a weekly occurance. No longer news, it's instead something akin to a report.
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@dammy,
I agree. No more of them will be posted as news.
Whew! Now you said it, now I can agree:-) :-D
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I think AmigaINC has finally ran out of money... All they have com up with lately is a bunch of lies.... Remember about all the new exciting apps/games for Amiga AA that mcewen announced at techTV?? Still not a single piece of new software has showed up on the AA site.. They didnt even manage to deliver those cupons/tshirts... Only one who managed to get something out was Eyetech"amigaone".. But it will sadly probably only run linux since os4 will never see the light of the day.. :-x
Im feed up with them. They managed to tear abart the little community that was left... Just look at the numbers for a.org... I bet the visitor numbers has nearly halfed just in the last year.
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Poster: Wayne Date: 2003/4/7 11:21:41
Then again, having heard substantial rumors lately of bank accounts closed and other interesting oddities, maybe they already have and news simply hasn't reached "Fleecy".
Hrm? Boss, are you holding out on us?
Dammy
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To save the arguments why not just cut and paste the full thing in the news item instead of allowing people to post just external links to sites.
9) T-shirt Man: Will i get my T-shirt soon?
Fleecy: When our strategy evolves in to a T-shirt making company we will purchase the book and CD combo "knitting made easy" me and Bill will spends out holidays with our new hobby.
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Typical sour grapes.
Why is it not news if it's not what you want to hear when you want to hear it?
What's really disappointing is this site is starting to become editorialized in the tradition of all the others. Take a look at the news postings over the last week. How many of these constituted 'news'? How many of them were product advertisements?
Whether you agree with the contents of these Q&A sessions or not they do promote dialog. If you don't want to read them or participate ignore them. Those of us that rely on a.org for news don't feel like routing through countless forum posts just because a few people have an axe to grind.
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Typical sour grapes.
Nothing about Amiga Inc is typical, unless you're comparing the management of the company to Commodore.
Why is it not news if it's not what you want to hear when you want to hear it?
It isn't news, because it's non-substantial "fluff".
There isn't a single new answer or "concept" in his interviews which hasn't already been discussed to death. There are also no answer outside of "this is what we'd like to do if we were actually doing anything."
This is nothing more than marketing, and trying to satisfy those of you who want to hear from them even though they have absolutely nothing to say.
The origins of the entire situation go back to a scheme between certain cheerleaders and Fleecy to divide this community into those who support Amiga Inc blindly and those who actually look at the world around them before giving out free "faith".
It's a very typical tactic to divide a community to discover who your absolute supporters are. Once that's done, you can use the absolute supporters to champion your cause without bothering to pay or otherwise support them.
(The concept comes from Sun Tsu's "Art of War" though I don't recall the actual passage.)
It is a demonstrated and proven fact that Amiga Inc wants to use the community to champion their cause and wave the Amiga flag FAR more than they want to support the community.
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9) T-shirt Man: Will i get my T-shirt soon?
Want a nice Pegasos t-shirt instead?
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Poster: ne_one Date: 2003/4/7 12:52:09
What's really disappointing is this site is starting to become editorialized in the tradition of all the others. Take a look at the news postings over the last week. How many of these constituted 'news'? How many of them were product advertisements?
Do you understand the term, "abuse" and how it applies?
Whether you agree with the contents of these Q&A sessions or not they do promote dialog. If you don't want to read them or participate ignore them. Those of us that rely on a.org for news don't feel like routing through countless forum posts just because a few people have an axe to grind.
If you want the truth, you have to read it on Amiga.com site. Just remember, they have said over and over again not to believe anything until it's up on their site. Or don't you believe them when they say that?
Dammy
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Hi guys. Allow me to say my opinion.
It's been said from the beginning that many questions could not have a "detailed answer".
I don't know if it's an atempt to kill A.org but I don't agree with the way the news were posted here. A.Org to me is an impartial place where there would be people with much varied opinions and still hang in here and talk without, well at least extreme flamewars, and many times even help each other with Amiga related problems. I hope it doesn't stop being that.
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@Jose,
We have no interest in altering the way that news is posted here. The "Fleecy Fluff weekly" isn't our idea of news however. It's Fleecy making up very vague answers to very simple questions about things he has NO idea on, as screened by their head cheerleader, Mike Bouma.
As such, the only change I've recommended is that future "editions" of the "Fleecy Fluff weekly" be posted as forum topics, NOT news, because it isn't news.
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@Wayne:
It isn't news, because it's non-substantial "fluff".
It's up to your readers to decide that, don't you think so?
I agree that these "Q&A sessions" are just a boring and predictable attempt to attract people to AmigaWorld.net (or to "divide the.community").
So what? You don't have to censor anything to protect the popularity of your site, the quality of your site speaks for itself.
You accuse them of "splitting the community", be careful not to take part in splitting it. Rather demonstrate that you're not interested in playing silly games like that.
Where would you draw the line btw.? If somebody with some brain cells left interviews Ben Hermans or Alan Redhouse for AmigaWorld.net, would you still not report it?
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@Wayne
The fact is that there are plenty of people visiting
amiga.org than are not visiting amigaworld. You always
said your goal was to support the community. A very
noble cause. Well, perhaps there is a part of this
community that wishes to be informed of these Q&A
sessions (or, indeed there might be people only visiting
amiga.org irregularily and never heard of them but really
would be interested if they knew) So what if it takes an extra 'click' to
read them? For the majority of us, those of us who really
ARE in those middle 60% you talked about some time ago,
it's a service to get informed of the stuff that might
actually be of some interest [to some].
It is your website. You do whatever you like with it. But
please be honest about it - You dislike these harmless
weekly links for two reasons: Your old problems with
fleecy and your hatred of Mike Bouma. You are entitled to
those opinions of course, but please consider also that
you have more power than the regular Amigan as the
webmaster of one of the largest Amiga newssites. Your
influence matters. But with power also come a burden of
accepted responsibity. And in this, your latest hardened
attitude, you are NOT helping the community in any way.
@all
Set up a Q&A session with someone more interesting than
fleecy if you are so disturbed by him answering ten
bloody questions a week. Or if you really want his input,
but feel amigaworld is only feeding him 'nice' questions,
set up a Q&A session of your own, right here on amiga.org
(or elsewhere). I would read it, most definately. It's my
hobby (note the non-deadly-serious implication) to
keep an eye on the small Amiga world, after all.
.
SlimJim
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Just posting a link to another site should be against the amiga.org rules dammit. It's blatant advertising.
Err, when *I* look at the news items, ALL of them look like some sort of advertising regardless of how much or how little content they contain.
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@all
Set up a Q&A session with someone more interesting than
fleecy if you are so disturbed by him answering ten
bloody questions a week. Or if you really want his input,
but feel amigaworld is only feeding him 'nice' questions,
set up a Q&A session of your own, right here on amiga.org
(or elsewhere). I would read it, most definately. It's my
hobby (note the non-deadly-serious implication) to
keep an eye on the small Amiga world, after all.
How about interviewing Ron Jeremy? Who would want to miss THAT!
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Well, I think it's all right as a news item. I can live with it once a week.
And waiting for the day, when some more serious questions will be answered...
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I have to agree with Wayne; there wasn't any real information in Fleecy's (God I hate that name) post. He's an arrogant goon spewing the same stuff we heard two years ago.
Further, Amiga Inc. should NOT be trying to influence which Amiga news sites are viewed and which aren't, and if they are, they're A) wasting their time and B) not busy enough getting a damned Amiga product out.
Honestly, I hope Amiga OS 4.0 sees the light of day soon; I'm excited about that product with the Amiga One. But I'm sick to death of hearing NOTHING from Amiga Inc. except the same nonsense. If they become a profitable, decent-sized company we hopefully won't have to deal with this political haggling in our tiny community anymore, we can then move on to political haggling with a much bigger community. I can live with having an Amiga Inc. that's annoying as long as they're successful (and don't do stupid things like Commodore and Apple), but so far they've been successful in just about nothing, except giving some guidance, reference designs, and desired featuresets to OTHER companies to do for them. Amiga Anywhere is certainly not a success by any stretch of the imagination yet.
Honestly, Amiga.org's going to be fine one way or another, no matter what Fluffy Fleecy says. I still believe we are the most viewed Amiga news site, and I don't think that will change no matter how many useless Q and A sessions he posts at other sites. I remember back when AO was in AI's "good graces" and that certainly didn't have any effect on us, either.
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You accuse them of "splitting the community", be careful not to take part in splitting it. Rather demonstrate that you're not interested in playing silly games like that.
I need to convey a message, and I need it to be absolutely clear. I have NOTHING against either AmigaWorld.net or it's Webmaster, DaveyD. Davey and I seem to get along just fine, despite pressure by a couple of AW's members to play "site versus site" politics to try and drive their barely hidden agendas.
It's up to your readers to decide that, don't you think so?
Yes.... and No.... If this were real news, with real answers I would be amongst the first to post it.
Fleecy "fluffing" the community isn't interesting and only serves to divide the community even more.
Seriously. Read all the prepared questions, read all the evasions, vague answers, and 1/2 truths given by Fleecy over the last 4 weeks and tell me it actually has a purpose.
I am not suggesting that it be precluded from the site, simply that it should be moved to the forums, as -- in the opinions of the staff -- it is not "news".
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Honestly, Amiga.org's going to be fine one way or another, no matter what Fluffy Fleecy says. I still believe we are the most viewed Amiga news site, and I don't think that will change no matter how many useless Q and A sessions he posts at other sites. I remember back when AO was in AI's "good graces" and that certainly didn't have any effect on us, either.
Are you saying that you are feeling betrayed somehow
that fleecy is posting his answers to amigaworld.net and
not to amiga.org? Do you think he would have refused had
you thought of this Q&A thing first?
As it is, it's quite obvious the staff of amiga.org care little
about what AInc has to say. I don't see why
another site's staff thinking this MIGHT be interesting
after all, is anything to be upset about. And like the
interviews conducted by other sites, it's a happening
some in the community might be interested in hearing
about. At least, this is certainly nothing to blame AInc for
at least (for once)?
.
SlimJim
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There hasnt been much "real" news lately anyways.... So i cant see why this news item hurts... Its better than nothing at all............
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If the CTO was doing an out-of-the-blue-moon Q&A session, it would be news. Rather instead, it's a weekly occurance. No longer news, it's instead something akin to a report.
Thank you, Mr. Clinton :)
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Are you saying that you are feeling betrayed somehow that fleecy is posting his answers to amigaworld.net and not to amiga.org?
To jump in from my own perspective, not at all. If Fleecy actually had something to say, that's one thing. You are discounting the FACT that the only reason he is saying ANYTHING right now is that he wanted to work with Mike Bouma/Luca Diana/(ACCM?) to try and undermine Amiga.org and snag it's more zealotous members for their own use. I say "use" because from first-hand experience, that is the ONLY thing that Amiga Inc wants from any member of this community. Mike Bouma and others are simply to naive to understand that fact yet.
Fleecy, in fact, has said nothing interesting that we have not heard repeatedly for the past 3 years.
-- They are broke. We get it.
-- It's everyone's fault but theirs. We don't believe it, but we got it.
-- They have nothing to do with AmigaOS. Got it.
-- They have nothing to do with AmigaOne. Got it.
-- They have no real plans for software support. Got it.
-- They have no real plans for selling the desktop outside the community. Got it.
-- Fleecy knows a lot of big buzz words. Got it.
As such, I admit that I'm peeved that ANYONE is listening to what Fleecy has to say about ANYTHING except *possibly* DE/AA. What DE/AA has to do with the Amiga platform, and why it even remotely interests classic Amiga users, I cannot fathom.
I didn't even suggest that it shouldn't be covered here, but it is much more applicable as a forum post than a new item.
But that's just me. You'll note that it does not affect my standpoint on anything else at this site. ALL ALTERNATIVES to the classic Amiga platform should be considered, as we are all classic Amiga platform users.
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So what? You don't have to censor anything to protect the popularity of your site, the quality of your site speaks for itself.
Good point. Now censor is a bit stong, Wayne's just talking about not calling it news, not banning anything.
What I do agree with is: if you don't like it, don't read it, skip it, read some of the other dozen stories on Amiga.org
Obviously some people have zero faith left in Amiga (Inc.), but I say lets keep this in the news for the entertainment value alone.
Myself, I love this Monday-morning freak-out, it's probably healthy for us nerds to get this worked up over nothing.
If you want to see angry, just wait till OS4 ships.
"but..but...it doesn't come with stickers! Aggggh!"
Zoltan
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Err, when *I* look at the news items, ALL of them look like some sort of advertising regardless of how much or how little content they contain.
Right on!
Face it, Fleecy's 10 questions are about as exciting as things get in the land of Amiga these days.
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Are you saying that you are feeling betrayed somehow that fleecy is posting his answers to amigaworld.net
So what was the split over anyways?
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You are discounting the FACT that the only reason he is saying ANYTHING right now is that he wanted to work with Mike Bouma/Luca Diana/(ACCM?) to try and undermine Amiga.org and snag it's more zealotous members for their own use.
I'm sorry, but I don't know this "FACT". In fact, this is the
first time I have heard of this. But if this is how you
regard the situation, I can understand your aversity.
Indeed, if this is really the reason for the questions to be
answered (as opposed to the more obvious reason that
AW simply asked fleecy first), it would be bad (and
childish) indeed.
For now, I'll just apply the wisdom of Occam though...
.
SlimJim
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But if this is how you regard the situation, I can understand your aversity.
This isn't how I regard this situation. This is what copies of e-mails and private messages I have received have marked out in detail. No. I will not share the e-mails. You have "known" me long enough to make a determination of the truth here.
This started long before the "I'm leaving" thread and culminated when I took money from Genesi for a banner (no more, no less) and moved Amiga.org to my own server. Bouma, Luca Diana, and Fleecy used that moment to start spreading pure lies and bullshit aimed specifically at promoting their own agendas. They continue to this day.
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It saddens me to hear this, Wayne.
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SlimJim
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yeah this is not news... more nonsense from a nonsense company... they need to deliver some T-Shirts before they do anything else... taking peoples money and not giving product is far from ideal.
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Poster: mips_proc Date: 2003/4/7 21:30:40
yeah this is not news... more nonsense from a nonsense company... they need to deliver some T-Shirts before they do anything else... taking peoples money and not giving product is far from ideal.
Is that all that matters to you is a T-Shirt.
So ppl send Amiga.inc £50 & get a T-shirt & that should make you happy.
send me £50 & ill get you a T-shirt seeing thats all you want for £50
This should be in forum as the Q&A was not at Amiga.org. so ppl can talk about the questions & the replys with out name calling or flamming.
You do you think name calling & flamming is a good thing.
@Wayne
Seeing as you dont like this item & its not following your rules of NEWS & is going way off topic why dont you lock it or delete it.
As you your self are breaking your own rules your self with your comments on this thread.
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@Alky
Xoops doesn't let you lock a news post and deleting it would create all hell. Looking through my comments, I do not see myself calling people names or attacking them. I have, to the best of my knowledge only spoken Facts and my own personal opinions.
If I said "Mike Bouma is an arse" or "Fleecy is an unqualified twit" that might be a difference. I have said nothing to those effects, simply that Mike and Fleecy (and others) have schemed against this site. This is true.. It is factual, and from my perspective, not open for debate. The only question is whether I have served my own best interest by telling the truth in this situation. I also stated that it is not news. It should be a forum post as more applicable.
In what way have I violated my own rules?
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Wayne but your OFF TOPIC.
Its about what ppl think about the question & the replys.
Not about fleecy character.
& bringing in MikeB's character into it is even more OFF TOPIC.
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@alky
News posts have no topics. This means of course, that you are absolutely correct. I think what steered us off-topic is the initial reasoning that this is not news and only serves as free advert for AW. I agreed, and each successive post was just a bit more off topic.
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Wayne good so your saying its ok for someone to post it in a forum.
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@alky,
That was my original post and the only thing I really wanted people to understand. It SHOULD be a topic post, not a news post. I've now said this 5 times. :-)
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Wheee this has been busy today:-) I missed all the fun :-P
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Poster: Wayne Date: 2003/4/7 23:12:01
@alky,
That was my original post and the only thing I really wanted people to understand. It SHOULD be a topic post, not a news post. I've now said this 5 times.
Sorry but when topic start to turn to crap i glance over posts.
Gone are the days that i used to read every post on good topics & spend half the night reading through that i thought was intresting only to find out that 90% was crap & trolling & flames.
And that actual good stuff if i knew exactly where it was was only about 10mins worth of reading.
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Wayne wrote:
What DE/AA has to do with he Amiga platform, and why it even remotely interests classic Amiga users, I cannot fathom.
It has nowt to do with the AmigaClassic platform, except its name. But why it interests us? Oh, thats easy, we're all geeks. We are fascinated by PDAs, Sub-Notebooks, smartphones, game-boys and the like. We all want to play a game on an ipaq, save the game, then continue it on a palm tungsten, just for the pure geekiness of it all! :-)
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Waste of time Q&As.
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@ Wayne
"Then again, having heard substantial rumors lately of bank accounts closed and other interesting oddities, maybe they already have and news simply hasn't reached "Fleecy".
Humm Money. I would hope that Amiga Inc would be up front and let the world know, that they are having money problems. Oh well, so much for that.
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@ Tomas
I agree with you. They are out of money and just do not want to tell us. My only hope now, is that Eyetech will come out with the Amigaonge boards and that maybe OS 4, they are not part of Amiga Inc., so maybe. Ya, it is a hope :)
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@ SlimJim
"It is your website. You do whatever you like with it. But
please be honest about it "
Yup, I too hope that Wayne will look at his reason of not wanting Fleecy's Q&A linked here??? Heck, at the rate Fleecy is going most people will just skip the link here. I too think there is more going on than just a isuse about news of Fleecy being linked here. Like you said, it is Wayne site so, . . . he has the last word here. I just hope that the same standard will be applied to all other news items :-) In my opion, I have read other so called news items, that would not pass the Fleecy standard. But the boss is the boss.
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I too hope that Wayne will look at his reason of not wanting Fleecy's Q&A linked here
Please. For the love of all that is holy. Show me EXACTLY where I said this? How many times must I clarify that I think it's fine for what it is? What it is not a news item any more, it's no more than a recurring forum post.
For God's sake people, please read what is posted before replying. This makes 6 times I've had to say the same thing in 6 different verbages.
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Please. For the love of all that is holy. Show me EXACTLY where I said this? How many times must I clarify that I think it's fine for what it is? What it is not a news item any more, it's no more than a recurring forum post.
I stand corrected. I meant as a news item. I too have seen other news items that were not up to the standard of Fleecy's new item. I hope all news items will be held to the same standard :-)
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"Please. For the love of all that is holy. Show me EXACTLY where I said this?..."
"For God's sake people, please read what is posted before replying. This makes 6 times I've had to say the same thing in 6 different verbages."
LOL!
Ok Seriously, I'm glad that you say what you have to say, independently of them.
I've allways doubted A.Inc. and for various times asked them to clarify their intentions with regard to AOS ( in forums, even mailed them two or three time), wich is the reason the community would continue to support them. Now that they seem to have seen that, they pay more attention to it.
But if they turn AOS to a layer to support their own agenda they can take a flying hyke.
I try to maintain optimism and think that if they want us to support them with DE, they'll have the dignity to give what we want in return (AOS), mostly since it's not even their work.
By they way I have questions more or less regarding this(what will OS5 be, if it will it lose it's character when it becomes a server OS, like I saw on an OlafBarthel interview etc.) waiting to be answered and I think they'll be asked sooner or later. If they are, it could be proof that Aw is not so biased as people say.
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Please don't call it "flames" :flame:
the new fashion is "Friendly Fire" :destroy:
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Seriously. Read all the prepared questions, read all the evasions, vague answers, and 1/2 truths given by Fleecy over the last 4 weeks and tell me it actually has a purpose.
@wayne
In regards to the "prepared questions"...I feel like I, like many others, have no "hidden agenda". I'm a nobody in Amiga land...I pretty much don't know anybody else in the Amiga Community and I am a lonely Amiga user her in Eugene, OR, USA. I'm guessing no one here knows me or has heard of me aside from a few posts here.
Anyway, my point is that I asked a question when this thing was first announced. I basically asked if they had thought about making AmigaDE available through web browsers similar to the way Flash or Java work. I thought that this would be cool if you could play DE games like people currently play Flash games or that you could write an entire web site in C or VP assembly or such. To my surprise my question did show up in the third round of questions. I thought Fleecy gave a pretty straight forward answer. That answer was no. I don't feel like he was "beating around the bush" or trying to talk his way out of an answer.
I'd just like to know what proof you have to substantiate your claim of "prepared questions".
You also said:
This is nothing more than marketing, and trying to satisfy those of you who want to hear from them even though they have absolutely nothing to say.
I didn't get the answer I wanted, but quite the opposite. So how do you substantiate that claim?
I'd also like to add that I feel that most of the stuff that gets posted as news these days (there is so little real news) is a bunch of fluff that shouldn't be considered news. Either that or it is just "free advertising" someone or another is after.
AmigaGuy
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If the date was removed from these repetitive Q&A
sessions were removed, would anyone be able to form any judgements about them? This is what
most of the comments are saying about these Q&A
sessions. I'm afraid I have to agree with them --
that these Q&A sessions are pure pablum.
Jim Steichen, author of AmigaTalk.
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IMHO it is quite strange that "Color Amiga-backgrounds for mobile
phone" or a message about Mediator t-shirts are regarded as more
news-worthy than these Q&A sessions with fleecy.
Ok, it's your site and your decision, but I still do have the feeling
that it's just because of personal problems with the people behind
amigaworld.
Personally I like both sites and visit them at least on a daily
basis. There is really no reason or sense in fighting each other.
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It is a news. And an interisting news.
Amiga comunity should be friendly.....
There is not war between Amiga site!!
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That answer was no. I don't feel like he was "beating around the bush" or trying to talk his way out of an answer.
Well your answer was an easy answer, so it was picked.That's not an insult on you, just that much harder hitting questions, like their financial situation or why they ripped off customers were ignored.
I'd just like to know what proof you have to substantiate your claim of "prepared questions".
People send their questions to a biased inidividual who filters out the "unnaceptable" questions. This has been confirmed by the person doing the filtering so it isn't exactly news.
I didn't get the answer I wanted, but quite the opposite. So how do you substantiate that claim?
It's good you go the answer you wanted, but overall this is hardly news. The vast majority of people here already knew that and the other answers. I ask you this? What's next? 1 question every day so the free advertising is always on the main page? Trust me when I say I have seen concrete evidence that this is nothing more than a way to increase the traffic to a certain website. It's not conspiracy when you see hard facts, it becomes reality.
Either that or it is just "free advertising" someone or another is after.
Be more specific? An update to a shareware program? How often is that? That is news. A driver update for mediator hardware? How often is that? That is news. An interview with an Amiga celebrity on another webiste? A genuine one is a rarity and therefore is news. A weekly Q&A with Fleecy [color=FF0000]with only a link provided to the other site, and content not allowed to be reproduced here[/color] is NOT news, it's advertisement for that certain site and should be discussed in the forums, not as news.
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There is not war between Amiga site!!
Nope there is not. AFAIK Wayne and DaveD get along just fine.
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@redrumloa
.That's not an insult on you, just that much harder hitting questions, like their financial situation or why they ripped off customers were ignored.
Actually, the most significant question of all has still not been asked, despite the answer to it affecting the significance of all 40 other answers so far.
That question is this:
[color=FF0000]"Is Fleecy answering in his capacity as Amiga Inc. CTO, in which case Amiga Inc. are bound by his statements and promises, or is he talking as Fleecy Moss, private individual and Amiga user, in which case his answers are little more than his personal opinion?"[/color]
The "news" item seems to imply the former, but I don't think Ikir has any actual proof to back that up.
A weekly Q&A with Fleecy with only a link provided to the other site, and content not allowed to be reproduced here is NOT news, it's advertisement for that certain site and should be discussed in the forums, not as news.
...and that is precisely the point I was making with the first comment to this thread. There are two ways in which this could have been presented:
(1) A short synopsys of the newsworthy statements in Fleecy's answers, posted here as NEWS with a link to the full thing on AmigaWorld as a reference.
(2) A statement that news has been posted somewhere else and a link that people must follow to find out what that news might be.
Case (1) is the proper way to post news, while case (2) is just an abuse of the service for advertising purposes. In the case of AmigaWorld supporters, they have been doing (2) for four weeks now, here and on other Amiga forums. Not a single person has bothered to go for case (1) instead. This is not a coincidence.
I come to Amiga.org to read my Amiga related news. If I wanted to read it at AmigaWorld I would go there. It therefore follows that I do not come to Amiga.org expecting to find nothing more than links to other sites with the promise that there is news there if I follow them.
I keep seeing people say that Fleecy's answers are newsworthy. I wouldn't know, as I don't bother with anything Amiga Inc. say any more, unless they actually deliver product first. However, if there is news in Fleecy's answers, can somebody please say what it is?
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@bhoggett
What do you expect when Fleecy is treated like some sort of hero of the hour than a person who works at a shambles of a company.
You might aswell ask Fleecy what is his favorite colour or what music he likes.
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@amigaguy:
You said it well- a lot of the stuff posted as "news" isn't.
I've gone though through the questions and answers the last 3 weeks- guess what? The answers are reasonable, and I don't think there is much fluff there, unless that's what you're hoping to find.
As far as prepared questions, there must be some picking of questions, otherwise Fleecy would be answering 20 like "Amiga sucks, you suck, why don't you release AAA?" or "Why are you beating up on MorphOS?, BTW: MorphOS rules, you suck!", etc.
Some fokes just have a bigger chip on their sholder :)
Zoltan
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Please don't call it "flames", the new fashion is "Friendly Fire"
Ouch! I know what you mean, I'm starting to think that's the Iraqi's overall strategy.
True fact: in Gulf War I, there where more "friendly fire" deaths than those caused by the enemy. Maybe we should pull the troops out and leave it to the smart weapons next time :)
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I feel your pain *Wayne. I'm sorry that people are conspiring against this site. It was one of the first and best.. It is very professional looking and has good content.
The Fleecy Questions are an interesting read for news junkies like me but are very surface and fluffy. Whats with OS 5 Questions? OS5? What the @#%@ about OS4. that was pure foolishness. Hyperion should have a working build on Cyberstorm by now - or not.. I hope they post screenshots and send the Amiga internet community crazy! I like Hyperion alot. Genesi too. Ainc.. well.......................thats another story for another time.
What about Amiga.org do 10 questions with BILL BUCK! :) That would be great!
LOL!
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Holy moly......some of you guys are whining like small children about anything Ainc. does. Some of you don't even deserve to touch a new amiga. Why? because you're stuck in absolute negative oppinions, expectations, statements, etc.
You see I'm one of those guys like many of you, who just didn't wanna see my beloved amiga die. I feared the day when the amiga was truely declared dead. I always wanted the amiga to survive, in some kinda form, be it the OS or the idea itself. I have been hanging in there for several years, and now for the first time in many years i actually belive in the revival of our beloved amiga feeling.
But why do i belive in this for the first time in many years...i'll tell you...
Because of A.inc. Because these guys seems to know what they are doing. For Gods sake people, try to remember how the situation was 5 years ago? - can you remember? - personally i belived that the amiga were going to die, if somebody didn't do something.
Amiga Inc. came in from the cold and saved my beloved amiga from the horrible death it was steering at. They gave me a new vision. A new path for the amiga. A new dream to belive in, and for that alone I would like to thank them.
Now did they fulfill my dream......yes actually they did. They started under some of the worst conditions a computer company could imagine. A platform declared dead by nearly everyone in the buisness. Now see if you can do it better than them. I doubt it.
Despite these hard conditions, they took the amiga seriously, and started out by securing the amiga, by letting other company's get involved. This is in my eyes one of the most brilliant moves they ever made.
No matter what happens to Amiga. Inc. the OS will survive. The hardware will be built. Brilliant stuff which gives me a feeling of joy in my stomach.
What else did they do?
They came up with this path, vision, dream, or whatever called Amiga DE, Amiverse, AmigaOS4,4.2,4.5,5.0. They suddenly talked about all sorts of devices, and migration paths for AA/OS4-5. They made a new PPC conversion of the worlds best OS a possibility. And they are nearly there, with extensive features no one were thinking about when the first PPC idea were launched.
I'm extremely grateful that some great guys have bought the amiga rights and are trying to give it somekinda way back into the limelight. It's sad that some of you can't see that.
In my oppinion they are doing marvelous stuff for the amiga, which were declared dead by many people not so long ago. You seem to forget that fact sometimes.
I know it's been very frustrating with all the waiting and all the bullshit hype coming from them, but please guys....they are just some dudes fighting for their lifes. Fighting for the survival of the amiga and the complete spirit the comes along with it. And they are good at that. Nearly too good sometimes.
But none of all this marketing stuff can't destroy my mood, because I'm about to see AmigaOS rise from the grave in a new fashion I could only dream about 5-8 years ago. For that I'm completely thankfull.
I'm even going to run this reincarnation of my all time favorite OS, on PPC hardware, which again gives me possibilities of new software, games, etc for my new Amiga.
What more can a man ask for in my position. Nothing!. Amiga Inc. are doing just fine. I love those guys for hanging in there, and delivering new hope for my starved Amiga soul.
I love their ideas about Amiverse, OS5, Amiga Anywhere, etc. And i pray that they will succed with all of it. Can't wait to see OS4 - and all other amiga things to come.
Please guys...remember where you came from, and start smiling at the fact that you are about to see AmigaOS being reborn into the future. Not to forget all other things amiga also....yihaa!!
Thanks. Hondo_DK
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Ummmm. Hondo?
Well thought if not emotional post, but you do realize the fact that Amiga Inc has absolutely zero to do with either AmigaOS or the AmigaOne, right?
Amiga Inc hasn't "done" anything, except *possibly* writing a few extensions for Tao's Intent product.
That being said, I openly give credit for their bulldog-level longevity. It's just too bad they don't realize how badly they've screwed up by intentionally and actively ignoring the community.
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@Wayne
As far as I know Amiga Inc. existed before Hyperion and Eyetech were working with present amiga stuff. That means Amiga Inc. must in some way be responsible for the brilliant idea of outsourcing the various parts.
And about the marketing hype....well....you can't say they're bad at it. And I don't belive that they have mistreated the community that much, besides too many words too early, and a delayed T-shirt.
But I understand you. As a webmaster of a community, you probably wanted more interaction directly with Amiga Inc.
I agree that they have made fools of them selves many times, but overall they look more and more like heroes to me.
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You see I'm one of those guys like many of you, who just didn't wanna see my beloved amiga die. I feared the day when the amiga was truely declared dead. I always wanted the amiga to survive, in some kinda form, be it the OS or the idea itself. I have been hanging in there for several years, and now for the first time in many years i actually belive in the revival of our beloved amiga feeling.
@Hondo_DK:
Nicely put. I've said it before, once there's some new product on the market, I'm thinking people will calm down too. Right now I think a lot of the negative vibe is just lots of anticipation held for check for too long :)
We need OS4 now- before a few Amiga fans implode :)
Zoltan
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> Well thought if not emotional post, but you do realize the
> fact that Amiga Inc has absolutely zero to do with either
> AmigaOS or the AmigaOne, right?
This is an odd statement considerering that noone would
have been able to start neither the AmigaOne project (at
least not as an Amiga computer), and *definately* not
AmigaOS4 at all had not AInc been willing to let it
happen. Now, you can perhaps discuss the reasons
for AInc to allow AOS to be further developed - fair
enough. But the fact remains that they by extension have
very much to do with at least AOS4. Claiming they have
nothing at all to do with this system coming back into life
is simply ignoring a link in the logic chain.
..............
Look, I'm not all that happy about the decisions and
actions taken by AInc in the past either. I have stated
this. Repeating it over and over won't make my opinion
weigh any heavier, won't make me or anyoone else feel
any better. Rather, I'd only make others depressed.
You see, I have nothing to loose by showing AInc a little
patience. I have a beefy PC here - and a nice A4000/060 to
support it. I prefer not to bring up the negatives over and
over again (and I apply the same policy to
MOS/Genesi/Amithlon/x86/whatever), since there is
nothing to gain in that for me but flames and an
overall bad mood in the community. I have everything to
loose by repeatedly bringing up only the bad points all the
time - not only will AInc/Genesi/whomever stop listening (I
know I would), the noice of negativity I'll add might also
be just that little last drop of irritation that pushes that
long-time Amiga user into leaving this community forever.
And for me, that matters more than the short-term
satisfaction of repeatedly making witty sarcastic
comments to drive the same negative point home over
and over - even if I feel that I am right in my opinions.
It is a difficult lesson of maturity to learn when not to
repeat your viewpoint.
(...so I'd better shut up now! ;-) )
.
SlimJim
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As such, I admit that I'm peeved that ANYONE is listening to what Fleecy has to say about ANYTHING except *possibly* DE/AA. What DE/AA has to do with the Amiga platform, and why it even remotely interests classic Amiga users, I cannot fathom.
Alternative cash flow for Amiga Inc. Would you like this current Amiga Inc to be yet another 'BeOS Inc'?
In the shadow of dotCOM bust, the IT survivors have to convert from “pie-in-the-sky” business to real income generation business.
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Forget it, most of these guys just want to see Amiga dead and buried (I actually saw a post the other day, where the person specifically said he wanted to see AmigaOS4 fail - he obviously believed that MOS can only succeed if it has no competition). My guess is that they want Amiga, Inc to go bankrupt so that Genesi can buy the IP dirt-cheap and "become" the Amiga (especially the "name, inc" trolls). Every time Fleecy shows up with his trivial banter, he reminds them that the object of their hatred is still alive, and they don't want to see this staring at them from the front page.
SlimJim is right - this is only a hobby. Some people obviously lead pretty easy lives if they get so worked up about something so trivial. I'm off to do my taxes...
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Poster: CodeSmith Date: 2003/4/9 2:31:19
most of these guys just want to see Amiga dead and buried (I actually saw a post the other day, where the person specifically said he wanted to see AmigaOS4 fail - he obviously believed that MOS can only succeed if it has no competition). My guess is that they want Amiga, Inc to go bankrupt so that Genesi can buy the IP dirt-cheap and "become" the Amiga (especially the "name, inc" trolls). Every time Fleecy shows up with his trivial banter, he reminds them that the object of their hatred is still alive, and they don't want to see this staring at them from the front page.
Although I really do not care if OS4 makes it or not (I don't plan to buy any PPC machine), I highly doubt Genesi wants Amiga Inc dead any time soon. Reason being their law suit against Amiga Inc for contract violation is now set in US Federal Court on 12-1-03. Hence, it would be best for Genesi to hope Amiga Inc survives long enough to go to court so Genesi can be awarded proper financial remedey. That would give Genesi some rights when Amiga Inc does (and I'm sure it will) croak.
Dammy
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Is this the lawsuit where Bill Buck wanted the AmigaDE for hardware they never made?
Yep, sounds like a pointless lawsuit designed to bleed the competition dry. Bill Buck has lots more money than Amiga, Inc (or at least, he believes he does), so he doesn't care that he'll lose the lawsuit. The *real* plan is to drag it out long enough to bankrupt Amiga, so he'll be able to buy the rights to The Name nice and cheap. He'll have lost the battle, but won the war.
It's not illegal, so it's OK, right? ;-)
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Nothing about Amiga Inc is typical, unless you're comparing the management of the company to Commodore.
The real kick is that Commodore actually released products, too! :-D
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Although I really do not care if OS4 makes it or not (I don't plan to buy any PPC machine),
Your problem.
I highly doubt Genesi wants Amiga Inc dead any time soon. Reason being their law suit against Amiga Inc for contract violation is now set in US Federal Court on 12-1-03.
This "contract violation" is a claim made by the plaintiff, as such it has to be tested first.
Any specific details on this "contract violation" claim?
I recall, Amiga DE/Amiga Everywhere(or whatever they make up) logo is for Amiga DE enabled devices (within MS Windows CE context). Microsoft seems to be happy with the current contract with Amiga Inc.
IF this contract between defendant and plaintiff limits AmigaDE logo’s use within Windows CE/AmigaDE context then there would be problems for claimant. What other action could cause this “contract violation”?
I’m assuming that the contract with Microsoft and Amiga Inc (in regards to AmigaDE) is similar to the contract between Genesi and Amiga Inc.
Example of conditional limited Logos are
1. nVidia's "SoundStorm" logo.
2. Microsoft's “Designed for Windows” logo.
3. Sun's Java logo.
Hence, it would be best for Genesi to hope Amiga Inc survives long enough to go to court so Genesi can be awarded proper financial remedey.
The point going to court is to test the claims. It doesn’t automatically success.
That would give Genesi some rights when Amiga Inc does (and I'm sure it will) croak.
Define this 'rights'.
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Poster: CodeSmith Date: 2003/4/9 16:31:24
Is this the lawsuit where Bill Buck wanted the AmigaDE for hardware they never made?
Go read the complaint.
Yep, sounds like a pointless lawsuit designed to bleed the competition dry. Bill Buck has lots more money than Amiga, Inc (or at least, he believes he does), so he doesn't care that he'll lose the lawsuit. The *real* plan is to drag it out long enough to bankrupt Amiga, so he'll be able to buy the rights to The Name nice and cheap. He'll have lost the battle, but won the war.
I wouldn't call it pointless, there are indeed valid points to this entire proceeding. We can now laugh at Amiga Inc and it's legal council's attempt to get a summary dismissal since the Judge does see the case having validity and gave it a trial date.
Now sit back and wait for the fun to begin in this case. This is going to be a very interesting summer...
Dammy
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???
by 12-1-03 do you mean "12th of January" or "December 1"? if it's the second, I don't understand your comment about summer...
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Poster: CodeSmith Date: 2003/4/10 3:18:59
by 12-1-03 do you mean "12th of January" or "December 1"? if it's the second, I don't understand your comment about summer...
In the US we use Month/Day/Year format so 12-1-03 is read December 1st, 2003. As for my comment about this summer, it refers to the legal proceedings that will take place prior to the actual trial. Let the games begin! ROTFL!
Dammy