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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Aniway on October 04, 2003, 03:47:09 AM
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Amiga should release Workbench x.x for Peeceeze,
package it with a special PCI board that turns the PC into a true multitasking computer, and make its fortune offering an alternative to the crap operating systems abounding out there. In fact, I think that Amiga should produce full mutherboards that run workbench, all GUI'ed up like Amiga has always been known to doo--including the special hardware considerations that offer gestalt compatibility!!!!!!
PLUS, Amiga should include a field at the top of every window to allow CLI typing-in of anything that may also apply to the directory in question.
After the 68xxx chips left Amiga, I guess we have to learn the lesson that an Amiga were something more than a great multitasking computer with a Motorola chip. Programmers might appreciate Amiga for a whole lot more. For computer fans iffywhere,
LONG LIVE AMIGA!!
Aniway
Check out the new doo at http://www.dogpile.com for Amiga searches!!
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Moved to Amiga chit-chat
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Aniway wrote:
Amiga should release Workbench x.x for Peeceeze,
package it with a special PCI board that turns the PC into a true multitasking computer
Erm, care to let us in on what this PCI board is, and how it works?
Or even tell us why a PC isn`t a 'true multitasking computer' at the hardware level?
To be truely multitasking shouldn`t a computer have a CPU for each task?
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It should have a bus arch.
:-P
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I actually would like to see the Amiga OS migrate to the Intel side of things. Just think how many people out there would have a way to run it. The Mac shows how many people like to buy hardware that is stuck only working with one major OS. And I know Linux runs on mac too. I have an Amiga One G4 and dont even like to run Linux on it. OS4 on Intel would sell and make some much needed money head to Amiga Inc.
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I think that Amiga should produce full mutherboards that run workbench, all GUI'ed up like Amiga has always been known to doo--including the special hardware considerations that offer gestalt compatibility!!!!!!
This is just too funny.
It should also come with a reserve tank of gas, so if you run out of juice, just give it a push and... off you go!
PS - AmigaOne *is* a motherboard designed only to run WorkBench. Just a reminder.
package it with a special PCI board that turns the PC into a true multitasking computer...
You mean like a video card? The way those things are made, it's like putting a computer inside a computer. They have their own RAM and everything, after all. ;-)
Amiga should include a field at the top of every window to allow CLI typing-in of anything that may also apply to the directory in question
You mean like the old "Right-Amiga" + "E" command? A dedicated, re-designed shell application would work better than integrating a CLI in every window.
I actually would like to see the Amiga OS migrate to the Intel side of things.
That's what I've wanted since I got my first PC, and got my first [bad] taste of the Mac and a Sparc workstation. With so many specialty manufacturers these days, and so many of the PC's idiotic limitations fixed over the years, there's no excuse to use proprietary, custom, or low-volume hardware packages anymore. I agree 100% with Dave Haynie's Interview a few days ago. PC companies are no longer interested only in the CPU, and now, just like with the Amiga many years ago, games are almost the biggest incentive to buy a PC. Hardware is simply a means to an end. Restricting yourself just for the novelty of having a "non-PC" computer is corporate suicide.
OS4 on Intel would sell and make some much needed money head to Amiga Inc.
Too late. PowerPC is what we're getting, so all you PC hardware fans will have to wait for something else. Besides, Amiga Inc. isn't getting the money from OS4. Lord knows what kind of mischeif they're up to, 'cause they sure aren't telling.
Don't ask, don't sell. ;-)
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Sure.
I put Peecees together to sell them, and I really miss the niceness of Amiga. I obviously can't slap an Amiga together like a PC. I just wish that there were some way to construct a hybrid or something that could cannibalize the PC board and slave it to a piece of Amiga hardware so that can run off Workbench.
After all, you can put an Amiga ROM inside a PC and rig up software emulation; why can't you put Amiga ROMs and some other architecture in the PC, adopt an accessory sound and GFX board, and integrate the rest of the hardware through use of drivers, just like the PC does to run its hardware?
Surely all a Pentium III does were little more than process pieces of information at the binary level. With the new Amiga object-oriented environment, shouldn't the Pentium III just become another object?
It would be nice at the least to have a piece of hardware so the ROMs can be installed and the WB run. There really seems to be a need for alternative operating systems on the PC. Do you know how often the Windows crashes, particularly SE?
I tried to install Linux, but I was amazed at the incompatibility. Having Amiga venture into the PC, could allow Amiga games to run from PC with the proper hardware and also from AmigaOne or from whatever system. There could be a card for the Amiga 4000, the Amiga 2000, the Amiga 500. . .and couldn't it all be condensed into an integrated circuit or something??
But the point I'm trying to make, would be that if we really see Amiga everywhere, that might be far preferable to PC. I mean, would you really want to buy Windows for your Amiga?? I think there definitely appears to be a shortage of operating systems for PC clones, but have you seen the motherboards? Maybe if Amiga could put an OS into the PC, that Amiga boards could eventually be licensed like the PC boards. . .that should happen in 30 years anyway, shouldn't it, after the copyright wears off?
Part of the Amiga vision I was reading about, suggested that any device should be just another potential device to run Amiga programs on. So I shouldn't be surprised to see Amiga treat a PC motherboard like any other object, like a handheld PDA, like any piece of hardware that could run Amiga software.
I think we can agree that Workbench would benefit from an automatic window closer. But to address the idea of the CLI, I still think there should be one in each window. If you have OS3.9, you can see how you can click on the window itself and then it Amiga-E, and there you automatically end up in the directory of the window. That was a nice feature. But by putting a CLI inside the window like at the top, after the directory name or folder name listing, wouldn't that be even easier? It could be a toggle-option, just in case. . .
Aniway
:-)
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I put Peecees together to sell them, and I really miss the niceness of Amiga. I obviously can't slap an Amiga together like a PC.
Yes you can. Just put an AmigaOne motherboard in a case and add whatever you want, like with PCs.
I just wish that there were some way to construct a hybrid or something that could cannibalize the PC board and slave it to a piece of Amiga hardware so that can run off Workbench.
There's no need to add custom hardware to a PC to make it run Workbench, Amithlon proves this. Also, some years ago systems like the Siamese did what you are saying. Nowadays the classic Amiga hardware is too old, it's not worthwhile to link it to a PC the way you described.
After all, you can put an Amiga ROM inside a PC and rig up software emulation; why can't you put Amiga ROMs and some other architecture in the PC, adopt an accessory sound and GFX board, and integrate the rest of the hardware through use of drivers, just like the PC does to run its hardware?
PCs are already using "accessory sound and GFX board", and they use drivers to drive them. This is how all PCs work.
Surely all a Pentium III does were little more than process pieces of information at the binary level. With the new Amiga object-oriented environment, shouldn't the Pentium III just become another object?
Are you speaking about the AmigaDE?
It would be nice at the least to have a piece of hardware so the ROMs can be installed and the WB run.
Why should be the ROM installed on a card, while it's more confortable to use its image on the hard drive?
There really seems to be a need for alternative operating systems on the PC. Do you know how often the Windows crashes, particularly SE?
I've never heard of a Windows SE version. Anyway, from what I've heard the latest Windows 2000 rarely crashes. Also, PCs are IMHO well catered with different OSes, what it would need is that they get known in the mainstream, like Beos or QNX.
I tried to install Linux, but I was amazed at the incompatibility.
Have you tried other Linux distros? Have you tried to find the latest drivers for your hardware?
Having Amiga venture into the PC, could allow Amiga games to run from PC with the proper hardware and also from AmigaOne or from whatever system.
I guess that IF there were good games released only on the AmigaOne in the future, it would be much easier to simply port to code, instead of asking the user to buy custom hardware add-ons to run the games.
There could be a card for the Amiga 4000, the Amiga 2000, the Amiga 500. . .and couldn't it all be condensed into an integrated circuit or something??
Not, it would be not worth the effort. The classic Amiga is already severely outdated, there's no point in upgrading them even further since there're already new Amiga motherboards out.
But the point I'm trying to make, would be that if we really see Amiga everywhere, that might be far preferable to PC. I mean, would you really want to buy Windows for your Amiga?? I think there definitely appears to be a shortage of operating systems for PC clones, but have you seen the motherboards? Maybe if Amiga could put an OS into the PC, that Amiga boards could eventually be licensed like the PC boards. . .that should happen in 30 years anyway, shouldn't it, after the copyright wears off?
Which copyright? On the Amiga brand? Why do you think that this copyright is a bad thing?
Part of the Amiga vision I was reading about, suggested that any device should be just another potential device to run Amiga programs on. So I shouldn't be surprised to see Amiga treat a PC motherboard like any other object, like a handheld PDA, like any piece of hardware that could run Amiga software.
But this is what Amiga inc. was already trying to do in these years!
I think we can agree that Workbench would benefit from an automatic window closer. But to address the idea of the CLI,
I don't want my windows to be automatically closed, I want to decide when to close them.
Varthall
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I agree, AmigaOS on a P4/Athlon64 would have been a better option then the PPC route chosen. And you wouldn't even need a magical PCI card to make it work either. Oh well.
- Mike
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I agree, AmigaOS on a P4/Athlon64 would have been a better option then the PPC route chosen.
What software would you have? A OS without software wont do much...
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Tomas wrote:
I agree, AmigaOS on a P4/Athlon64 would have been a better option then the PPC route chosen.
What software would you have? A OS without software wont do much...
Actually, If ann x86-version of AOS was made the same way that OS4 is then the only apps thet wouldn't run would be the PPC-ones.
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I'll just wait for pentium.library
8-)
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I also totally agree that AmigaOS should've been ported to x86 years ago. It would be the ideal way for the OS to get a toe-hold in the 'mainstream' desktop market.
Do you think LINUX would be where it is today if it had been tied to the PPC platform?
It's a pity that so much time and effort has been put into porting Amiga OS to proprietory (medicore?) PPC hardware, when it could have been better spent migrating to x86.
It's been a missed opportunity though, as a project as large as that would doubtless take many years, and no-one wan't to wait for that... Bumma...
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You must be joking! Amiga OS to Intel PC crap!
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER for me!
if Amiga do it Amiga is dead to me!
AmigaOne G4 XE user! waiting for OS 4.0!
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@plexus
C'mon, get a grip... Just coz windoze runs on Intel doesn't mean they're lepers! (Apologise to any real lepers out there!). Winblows also runs on the ex-DEC Alphas - does that mean the Alpha is crap, I think not.
It's all a matter of economics and reality. What's better: an Amiga OS that's tied to a CPU family that has limited use (and also an uncertain future?), or one that can run on 95% of desktop machines out there? I know which I'd prefer...
I don't own either an A1 or Peggy - I simply can't afford one. However, if I could get my mits on a proper version of AmigaOS that runs on my PC, then I'd jump at it...
I guess it would make porting some of the huge range of PC/WIndows-based software a little more likely, if AmigaOS at least ran on the same CPU...
I know I can run UAE on my PC - in fact that's the only Amiga use I get these days (after being a dedicated Amiga user from 1986-1994) - but that's not really what I want. OS4 looks great and I'm sure it would wipe the floor with windoze running on the same hardware, but I'm not able to justify buying a custom box to run it... It'll be able to run classic Amiga apps, sure, but so can WinUAE. As many have said it has no "killer apps" as yet either...
I just think it would be better for people to get togther (Hyperion, the AROS team, etc) and put some serious effort into getting AmigaOS ported to x86...
Gee if Intel is that bad, just run it on an AMD CPU! ;-)
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plexus wrote:
You must be joking! Amiga OS to Intel PC crap!
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER for me!
if Amiga do it Amiga is dead to me!
AmigaOne G4 XE user! waiting for OS 4.0!
How incredibly open minded of you.
:-P
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Aniway: It would be nice at the least to have a piece of hardware so the ROMs can be installed and the WB run.
Better to have a boot manager and image. That makes it much easier to do diagnostics where, otherwise, you have to tell the OS to do checks and diagnostics the next time you restart, and go through reboot hell. Try re-installing WinNT or Win2K on an NTFS partition for a taste of this.
Core drivers for all boot devices should be in EEPROM, like it is done on the PC. It would be nice if there was a "user" section of the EEPROM that works like a boot floppy, so you could add your own boot drivers and delete the ones you don't need, to clear up space. Only mission-critical hardware tests and a serial reprogrammer *need* to be in ROM.
Aniway: Do you know how often the Windows crashes, particularly SE?
Second Edition? Win98 SE was the fastest, cleanest Windows I've used, but not the most stable by a longshot. A glitch in IE or any game would bring it down hard. Once, my system got trashed by emtying the recycle bin, and I found out it wiped out almost the whole system (and I'm a guy who used to run Win98 Scandisk every day).
WinCE is crap. WinME is *CRAP*. Win2K is where it's at. ;-)
Aniway: I tried to install Linux, but I was amazed at the incompatibility.
Me too. That's what happens when you have lots of distros of the same OS core. Things are not going to work together perfectly because there's very little central management. That's why I prefer commercial software over free software. Commercial developers *HAVE* to worry about cross-compatibility with their own products, or they don't sell (unless you're big enough to avoid having to worry about it, or your users like pain, like Apple fans).
Tried it... it's not for me... and not for the masses. Ever. It's a marketing issue, and has nothing to do with technology.
Varthall: Have you tried other Linux distros? Have you tried to find the latest drivers for your hardware?
I tried 8 so far, and they were all pains. I've been tempted to try Gentoo, but haven't, yet.
Glaucus: AmigaOS on a P4/Athlon64 would have been a better option then the PPC route chosen.
I'm regaining my faith in AMD since they are now capping their cores. About bloody time!
Tomas: What software would you have? A OS without software wont do much...
68K software. There aren't many PowerPC-only apps as far as I know. JIT emulation on a high-speed x86 would probably be comparable to straight-recompiles (with no optimizations) to a low-end PowerPC, like the 600-800 Mhz chips in the AmigaOne. It'll tide us over untill new titles arrive.
That's what Intel is doing for the transition of IA32 to IA64, so it can't be all bad. I'm more interested in new software than old favorites, anyway.
The real question is, on a scant number of PowerPC boards, is OS4 going to get anywhere near as much developer support than if it was more widely available on PC hardware? I seriously doubt OS4 will get much software other than cheap, generic ports, which won't fully utilize the PowerPC hardware, anyway. At least with x86, there's tons of kick-ass compilers and CPU APIs to choose from.
Mingle: Do you think LINUX would be where it is today if it had been tied to the PPC platform?
Even though it isn't, it still hasn't made a splash on PowerPC, either!
Mingle: It's a pity that so much time and effort has been put into porting Amiga OS to proprietory (medicore?) PPC hardware, when it could have been better spent migrating to x86.
I wonder what's the point of writing a HAL for AmigaOS if they're going the route of custom hardware, anyway. If all new AmigaOS software is written for PowerPC, they can't really switch to something else later without a HUGE loss of performance. That's why I liked the meta-binary approach of TAO. It's not optimum, but that's meaning less and less if you can guarentee flexibility. Almost the whole Internet runs interpreted languages these days, like Java, Perl, PHP, Python... native code seems like just a way to ensure Intel gets a paycheck and new hardware won't break apart the monopolies.
AmigaDE is a brilliant idea for applications with full network integration and sophisticaed GUIs. AmigaDE-for-mutimedia,-games,-and-sort-of-OS-capabilities isn't going to go anywhere. Most hardware abstraction in those respects is already done with drivers and APIs, which are platform-restricted by marketing issues, not technology.
Plexus: Amiga OS to Intel PC crap!
Ah, one of the rabid anti-x86 crowd. you're in very light company, pal, and dwindling every day. ;-)
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Mingle: I just think it would be better for people to get togther (Hyperion, the AROS team, etc) and put some serious effort into getting AmigaOS ported to x86...
When pigs fly. Hyperion won't have anything to do with x86. It's a shame the MorphOS people chose the same path and restricted themselves to PowerPC on a completely custom board, but then, I'm not a big fan of MorphOS, either.
The big revolution will happen elsewhere, not in the Amiga community. Too many people bitching about technical supiriority and not enough people interested in making a platform that WORKS.