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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: SilvrDrgn on March 07, 2003, 02:21:35 PM
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Windows Server 2003 will bring an end to one of the biggest bugbears for Windows users and administrators, according to Microsoft. The problem, which relates to Dynamic Link Libraries, has become an increasing headache over the years.
I can see it now. Microsoft will call this a brand new feature. Brainwashing will follow for pushing everyone into thinking they invented this "new feature" that's actually been in use for years on other systems. The end of the article also mentions another "feature" called xcopy deploy. Gee, another idea that's already existed for years.
Source: CNet News.com Full Article (http://news.com.com/2100-1012-991466.html?tag=fd_nbs_ent)
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Well, gee, it's not as if Microsoft were amongst the worst culprits at writing 'newer' dlls that broke existing ones, is it ? :lol:
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From what I read in this article, Microsoft are just about to do one of their favourite coding pastimes - making something simpler by making it more complicated. That is, at the end-user level something seems simple, but deeper down it's a complete mess. So in return for making things easier at one sight, there is now a thousand things more that can go wrong.
Microsoft have been doing this since MS-DOS. The What kind of people code for them? Jellybrains? Idiots? People who just don't care? I mean, why keep kludging this piece of crap they call an OS with half-baked fixes like this? It's not even in the name of compatibility, in this case. It's just f'ing stupid.
Everyone knows the best way to keep track of shared runtime libraries is to KEEP THEM ALL IN THE SAME PLACE, not tag them in some binary list where a million things can go wrong. That's just dumb, dumb, dumb! And you can keep a list of loaded DLLs in memory with version strings. Amiga did this in '82. Microsoft won't ever figure out that the most efficient way sometimes really is the best way. That's why their software will always suck.
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I reckon they should create one HUGE Windows DLL, call it Windows.DLL, about 600 megs in size, and leave it at that :-)
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I reckon they should create one HUGE Windows DLL, call it Windows.DLL, about 600 megs in size, and leave it at that
What, only 600 Mb :-o
Biggest joke of all, after the idea of M$ adopting something resembling efficient :-P
Stimpy
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@ KennyR,
It's just f'ing stupid.
Agreed. What's more stupid? The Windows Registry! Whoever thought up that idea should be shot.
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Hmm, so basically they are just now coming up with REALLY complicated ways to solve what ALL others have solved before them. And all in all the biggest part of the problem is that dll's still are named in 8.3 fashion. On Unix systems the version number is part of the file name, so you only open the right version, never one too old or too new... On AmigaOS a library can be put in PROGDIR: as well as LIBS:, and you can request specified limits on what versions can be loaded. My god those people at Microsoft are way behind.
Oh, and the whole thing about copying instead of reinstalling, I can't imagine why they didn't just shoot whoever designed the original system in the first place.
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It's not in M$ interest to make Windows work well... if it did how will they sell the next one?
That is my biggest argument against commercial Operating systems, keep the OS free and charge for drivers and applications.
They use the same marketing campagn every windows release;
"This one actually works, will crash less often and has less bugs than the last one"
I really can't belive that a company can sell 6 products all with exactly the same marketing ideas...
Imagine if Boeing did the same;
"This new plane will crash less often..." :-D
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I can't imagine why they didn't just shoot whoever designed the original system in the first place.
Do you really think Bill Gates would shoot himself?
hahahaha, no I don't really believe Billy boy designed any of Windows, but he does list himself as Cheif Architect, so he can take the blame. :-P
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@olegil
And all in all the biggest part of the problem is that dll's still are named in 8.3 fashion.
Hate to defend MS here, but no, they're not. Dll names can be the same length as any other file in Windows.
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That is my biggest argument against commercial Operating systems, keep the OS free and charge for drivers and applications.
Here, here. My impression is that the OS itself is a fairly small and simple part of the whole system. It's the shell, interface, and desktop that has all the complicated stuff, in respective, increasing complexity.
It should be noted that DLL hell was caused by a coding style, not a technology. The idea of shared libraries was a good one back when machines were largely proprietary, and contained many applications from the same vendor (like MS). These days, you have hundreds of background tasks running simultaniously, and hardware is cheap. Getting that many vendors to coexist is impossible. You might as well let them manage their own libraries, and just shut 'em down if they do something stupid (and tell the user WHY!)
Technically, you should be able to use an older Windows DLL simply by having it in the same folder as the application, which overrides the new version in the system folder. Of course, MS doesn't like this.
My favorite thing about Amiga and Mac software is the fact it doesn't have to be installed, put tons of files in the system folder, or be put in a specific place. Just copy it to the hard drive and run it wherever you want. Lots of Amiga and Mac apps run right from removable disks without any installation required. Good system security might be more difficult to implement that way, but for a single user system that's the best way to make software.
Besides, sharing files these days isn't really meant for libraries, anymore. If an application needs outside resources, they are usually copied seperately by a 3rd party installer and run like applications or over TCP/IP, like media players, database servers, and other background tasks.
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Hate to defend MS here, but no, they're not. Dll names can be the same length as any other file in Windows.
True. Again, it's a coding style, not a technology. A lot of people still choose to use 8.3 naming, but they don't have to.
My guess is that they are either overly traditional, outlandishly stupid, or trying to intentionally keep things cryptic, for whatever reason. For a lot of the proprietary systems I use at work, reason #3 is often more true than you'd think! :-?
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Wasn't this about "end DLL hell" something they said about Win2K and WinXP, too? :-D
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@carls:
They claimed they were focusing on security too.. :-o
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Yes, and stability ;-)
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Windows File Protection...
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Why don´t they just let the user decided!
I mean is anyone ever using the amigainstaller in something other than "expert mode".
I could keep track of the dlls if they just showed me the version numbers and asked me.
"Do you really want to close this dialog Yes/No" :lol: that they can ask but not if i "really want" to install something
installing software on Winslow is like russian roulet.
BTW Why does my AmigaOS which is written for another processorand run under emulation make more use of the pcs hardware than windows?????.
:-D
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I think he meant 600 GB. I'm waiting for Windows to ship on DVD. It's bound to out grow a CD soon.
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Maybe in a couple of years' time. If another MS OS were released now, and couldn't go on a CD, they'd have to do it on two CDs, as DVD is nearly, but not quite, the standard for the majority of PCs.
Incidentally, quite a few operating systems come on a number of CDs. They contain plenty of extra software as well generally, but just thought I'd drop that tidbit of info into the conversation :-)
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This is just it!! M$ has NEVER come up with anything thing I can think of on there own. They like to take others ideas and make a mess of them by sucking it into that bloated OS they call windows. I love AmigaOS and Mandrake 9.0 is at the level now where I am SERIOUS about dumping XP off my system and using it as my sole OS. I dont play games on my PC so the apps I need are in linux. I just need to learn to use it as well and I have Winblows.
BTW Bloodline you had me pissing myself with this one!! "Imagine if Boeing did the same;
"This new plane will crash less often..."
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@Dan
BTW Why does my AmigaOS which is written for another processorand run under emulation make more use of the pcs hardware than windows?????.
Yes. This freaks me out too. Opening a Win2K folder (err, sorry, a Drawer ;~) is _much_ quicker under UAE/OS3.9 than it is thru Win2K natively.
Slightly OT, yesterday I had to restore my PC due to major problems:
1. From boot up to HDD resting took an Hour and Ten minutes :-x
2. 63% (!!!) fragmentation on the HDD
3. Event log showing Hondreds of 'Bad Block' errors. Initially i feared the HDD was on it's way out, however.....
After 7hours :-x I eventually got it restored correctly and only lost work from the last 3 days. I think I nailed it down to some memory manager program I was trying out, which was obviously chucking files all over the place.
The reason it took 7 hours, was first I restored over the top and it was still the same. I formatted, then installed installed W2K and it was ok. I then restored my backup over the top and it was back to square one. Finally, I re-formatted, deleted the MBR with DOS and installed the backup. Voila! all is good in the world.
The moral of this drivel?
Don't use a memory manager, buy some RAM!
-john
PS. The backup program is called Instant Recovery. It works. Recommended. Get it here free! (http://www.no-panic.com/recovery/irecover.html)
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Microsozz sucks :-D
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Microsoft: Watch me pull an end to DLL hell out of my hat.
Users: That trick never works.