Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Announcements and Press Releases => Topic started by: downix on February 21, 2003, 07:54:50 PM
-
To Whom it May Concern:
The Pegasos will go on sale Monday.
There are 300 to sell and 100 that will go to MorphOS Developers and Employees.
If interested to purchase a Pegasos mainboard or fully configured machine:
1. Contact your Distributor
2. Contact Phoenix
3. Contact Genesi
When these are sold there will not be another release until August/September 2003. The next release, the Pegasos II, will have double data rates, three 1 Gb/s ethernet channels, and Dual G4s. Genesi will not release a new version until then.
We want everyone to understand this before they purchase the Pegasos available now. All Betatester boards will be exchanged with the first priority.
An upgrade credit will be offered to Pegasos I buyers. The Pegasos I will not have a G4 upgrade.
Thank you and best regards,
Genesi
Note: Please contact Genesi directly to get your replacement board with April chipset (if you haven't done so far). Thank you.
-
Congratulations to Genesi :-D
-
IIRC, there are someone that has payed for a pegasos G4 upgrade,and that cannot be very Amazing...
-
@Ami603
Yep, but thats the dealer fault, Genesi never acceoted ANY
pre-payments !!
-
Ok ... it wasn't that good news for Genesi as I thought fist time I read it ... so there will only be totally 400boards + those already by the Betatesters, until August/September :-? Sorry but I don't see that as a good sign for Genesi :-( But I might be wrong ;-)
Good luck :pint:
@bbrv
When do you give the people info about Pegasos II?
-
Ami603: I agree. re: " 600 MHz PowerPC G3 750 CXe upto Dual PowerPC G4 MPC 7450 " on pegasosppc.com, on vesalia, on KDH ... May I now say "false marketing"?
A lot of talk down the toilet, anyway.
(But for the fanatics that most likely will be pure good news anyway...)
((when they finally clear the disinformation from their web site, I hope this is also removed: "OS : once the computer starts it can run Linux or the Amiga OS on top of the kernel. "))
-
>When do you give the people info about Pegasos
>II?
Besides the specs that are known already from this
PR, more info will be given on Monday.
-
(But for the fanatics that most likely will be pure good news anyway...)
Not that I'd call myself a fanatic, but although I'm having rather mixed feelings about this, I think we do anyway have to give Genesi credit to be fair enough to tell this everyone in advance - instead of continueing to produce and sell Pegasos-Ones until the Pegasos-II is on sale.
-
How can anyone put a positive spin on this?!? :-?
Pegasos boards won't be available to any customers until September and this is supposed to be a good thing?
Genesi just cut its own throat.
-
>Pegasos boards won't be available to any
>customers until September and this is supposed to
>be a good thing?
300 Boards will be sold starting on Monday.
-
300 Boards will be sold starting on Monday.
So you can sit at about 600 users for the next seven months?
You had an advantage over OS4. You just squandered it. And for what?
Btw...so much for the CPU slot.
-
ok, I didn't read the "last" line
The Pegasos I will not have a G4 upgrade.
I almost feel sorry for those poor bastards ;-)
Now who is going to laugh at whom?
We the AmigaOS 4.x fanatics (them who has the money) might get dual G4 in some weeks ... The MorphOS fanatics might be lucky to get single G4 in some month :lol:
Sorry that I laughed, and mentioned AmigaOS in your thread ... but I had to ;-)
But still I look forward to see what Genesi wants to make out of their comming Pegasos II :-)
-
Trying to get some sanity in this .... there must have appeared a new Northbridge to build pegasos2.
Or Genesi is developing their own (and the MAI relationship has ended).
...
Amiga fanatic could say that when the AOS4 release and especially the A1G4XE release is approaching, this pegasos2 announcement is meant to hold the buyers for Genesi.
And MOS fanatics counter comment would be "isn't that what Amiga and Eyetech did" and they are right (too).
Well... time will tell.
-
>Now who is going to laugh at whom?
And who will laugh last?
-
And who will laugh last?
Judging by the progress of A1, OS4, MOS and Pegasos, I think Bill Gates.
-
zacman wrote:
>Now who is going to laugh at whom?
And who will laugh last?
I hope we will be able to laugh together in the last end ;-)
I hope all well for "AmigaOne+Amiga4.x" and "Pegasos+MorphOS" ... I want the Amiga, but still it would nice to see the future of "Pegasos+MorphOS" :-D
-
"All Betatester boards will be exchanged with the first priority.
Note: Please contact Genesi directly to get your replacement board with April chipset (if you haven't done so far)."
This would come out of that 300, so if there are any left over then the userbase can expand with new users.
-
>This would come out of that 300, so if there are any
>left over then the userbase can expand with new
>users
Most of the boards have already been exchanged.
So no real problem. The 300 boards might however
be sold out very quickly though. However waiting
for the Pegasos II with the better specs is worth
waiting.
-
More waiting and waiting, is that all you Amiga companies do is make potential customers wait like crazy?
Strike while the iron is hot.
-
Ho ho ho..... :-P
I reckon we'll see OS4 before any more pegs ship, can anyone be trusted in this market?
-
Wow, this was an interesting twist! :-)
I am glad to have a Pegasos secured in my home! :-D
Looks like there might be a shortage for a while ...
-
@Indoro
If you read it ... Will Merlancia still use Pegasus boards for their comming computers??? Will you wait, or will you switch to the MAI/Eyetech solution? Or maybe another solution :-?
-
More waiting and waiting, is that all you Amiga companies do is make potential customers wait like crazy?
Yeah, you'd think they were trying to get rid of all their users. Maybe it's a plot to sell all these Amigans PCs.
-
@ hnl_dk
We the AmigaOS 4.x fanatics (them who has the money) might get dual G4 in some weeks ...
Well, let's hope so! But we do not know much about the reasons to this twist. Is it MAI/Articia-related? In that case the A1 could suffer too (but let's hope not). Or is this upgraded HW only a way of getting further ahead of the competition?
The MorphOS fanatics might be lucky to get single G4 in some month
And tripple gigabit ethernet, and DDR (and who knows what else? AGP4x? AGP8x?).
hnl_dk, I really hope that you will have your dual G4's and that you can use OS4 on that as soon as possible! You guys have really waited a long time now! In the meantime I will sit here and enjoy MorphOS as it evolves!
This was a real surprize, and I have quite mixed feelings about it. I guess I haven't had the time to think about it yet. But at least I know what I have. And I like it. No waiting for me! And when the time comes, I will decide if I will upgrade or not ...
-
Good;
Peg-II will come this year.
Peg-I trade in.
Bad;
No G4 for Peg-I...
No more then +/- 600 (Is this the correct figure ?)Pegasos users before Augus or /September 2003.
Either way, just as bad or good as the Amiga-One/OS4 situation as far as I'm concerned.
-
Trying to get some sanity in this .... there must have appeared a new Northbridge to build pegasos2.
Well.. That's one advance Genesi has, they can move to another supplier if one can't deliver. It's no secret they have been looking for alternativies some time. I assume they have found one, cause that does not sound like any chip Mai has on their production lineup.
Well... time will tell.
Predicting the future is allways difficult. So we'll see what will happen. And in what order products do appear into market :-D
-
Not to fry anyone, but wont 300 pegasos saturate the morphos marked for a couple of months? Its my understanding that eventhough the morphos fans are somehow diehard they are few in numbers (Like the rest of the community)
-
@JoannaK
Here's some discussion about it.
http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&nid=199 (http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&nid=199)
( .... ooops...snip ... there might still be NDA on that ...)
-
How can anyone put a positive spin on this?!?
I can't.
To all my new friends in the morphOS community....I won't be joining you for a while....don't feel like taking a chance....its just too costly and too speculative.
But I still wish you well, and if you ever get that Mac version running, I'm there with ya....
-
btw. Is the G3 peg1 as overclocable as A1SE?
733Mhz via dip switches... or better?
( A little bit relevant, and this should be interesting to read for both peg and A1 fans: Powerlogix's PDF, information about DDR and SDR & L3 cache (http://www.powerlogix.com/downloads/SDRDDR.pdf ))
-
@takemehomegrandma
Well, let's hope so! But we do not know much about the reasons to this twist. Is it MAI/Articia-related?
I think that Articia Sa (or P) is nearly finished. Why continue producing Articia S based computers if the have to wait until the chips arrive etc... it's easier for them to make a new board. They already have the experience of the previous Pegasos. It's a logical movement in my opinion, because they will not sell old chipsets when they can get new ones at a similar price. On the other hand I think that the MorphOS user base will be quite small (Around 600users) well, I'm not counting the Cyberstorms, but It seems to me very few Pegasos.
Many people bought a Pegasos due to the possibility of upgrading the CPU. Ok, there's a similar offer to that made to AmigaOne SE users, but I think that they should do upgrade cards... of course we'll have to see the offer.
-
@ MarkTime
don't feel like taking a chance....
Hmm. It would be interesting to know what you mean by that? You are afraid that you won't get one of the 300 Pegasos1 even if you order one? Because what else have changed? Yesterday there were only the Pegasos1. Today they announce an even better machine for the late summer, but that doesn't mean that all the Pegasos1's will drop dead during this spring! I will continue to use mine. It's a great machine. And MorphOS is here now and will become even better all the time. So in what way has the "risk" changed? The cards are on the table for everyone to see!
-
I'll answer you honestly.
companies over produce and have to put computer on sale, sometimes they under produce, and have to keep prices high...but they don't just announce unavailability for a while.
Its herky jerky. It doesn't imply stability. Its promising selling a CPU module as a feature, but only one CPU module ends up existing.
Its the other promises that could change, as needs change, as circumstances change.
I don't blame genesi, I don't, but this is a reminder that they are a huge gamble. I'm not interested in that right now.
And 400 boards by september is not market building. hyperion, as small as they are, will lose 400 customers just by shooting themselves in the foot...I don't see genesi even making an impact for the short term.
And they are the challenger, the upstart, they are the ones who need to do everything right and gain the advantage. I'm not saying its all over....heavens no....they may well succeed...but I'll join them a little later, perhaps...maybe, when they are on a more solid foundation.
-
>And 400 boards by september is not market
>building
Just because there won't be any Pegasos I boards
sold anymore doesn't mean that other versions of
the Pegasos won't be sold.
-
Well, I'm not going to laugh at the Pegasos side.
I'm sorry everything didn't work out as planned.
With all the things that have been going on, I think a lot of people are going to organize thier minds about a few things.
Reposition thier thought patterns.
I've seen a lot of both sides, in the last two days come together and use one voice, and that was a nice breeze of fresh air.
As far as Bernie goes...
Build it and they will come!
As far as Hyperion goes...
Finish and release it, and they will come!
As far as the Amiga community goes...
Keep the evil out, so we can have a future for the Amiga.
Support those people that should be supported, and don't support the one's that you feel should not be supported.
Speak with your money, and use your mind.
No matter who threatens to take your choice away.
-
@zacman
"If interested to purchase a Pegasos mainboard... When these are sold there will not be another release until August/September 2003. "
I think it means what it says.
-
>I think it means what it says.
Please wait for more info on Monday. It won't be a
problem as a developer to get a board from Genesi.
-
Because on monday they'll goto the pegasus tree......
-
@ Crumb
think that Articia Sa (or P) is nearly finished. Why continue producing Articia S based computers if the have to wait until the chips arrive etc... it's easier for them to make a new board. They already have the experience of the previous Pegasos. It's a logical movement in my opinion, because they will not sell old chipsets when they can get new ones at a similar price.
I agree that this is a logical move. The only major negative things that people have said about the Pegasos (excluding pricing) is that the hardware is somewhat outdated. I have a feeling that the Pegasos2 won't be outdated! I'm not so sure that the new chipset will be Articia based at all, though ...
MorphOS user base will be quite small (Around 600users) well, I'm not counting the Cyberstorms, but It seems to me very few Pegasos.
It would be very interesting to know how many Pegasos were sold this far. And allthough about 600 might sound like a small figure I really believe that number covers a great deal of the remaining developers on the Amiga market, plus some new developers from "outside". And this was the aim for the pegasos. To establish a development platform for future products, like the Eclipsis, STB's, and now the Pegasos2 workstation/server. And not the least; to get MorphOS a solid HW platform to grow from. I think they succeded in doing that.
Many important developers allready have their Pegasos computers. They will continue to develop on them. Many users have Pegasos computers aswell (like me). And we will continue to use them :-D. And there will still be some 300 mobos available for those interested in getting things going before the Pegasos2 is released.
Many people bought a Pegasos due to the possibility of upgrading the CPU. Ok, there's a similar offer to that made to AmigaOne SE users, but I think that they should do upgrade cards... of course we'll have to see the offer.
I know. I was one of them! But to be honest, I don't really want a G4 anymore. Before I bought my Pegasos I was kind of used to the Wintel way of thinking, where you don't even consider booting up a computer with WinXP on anything lesser than a 2GHz CPU and 512MB DDR memory. So when I placed my order I orderd a 512MB memory module but I was kind of sceptical towards the "slow" G3@600MHz. But I can tell you this, since MorphOS is such a lean and unbloated OS the system really flies on that CPU. And since I don't do any advanced 3D raytracing or anything such, I don't have any use for a faster CPU now. The system couldn't fly much faster than it does. And a fast G4 would propably use a CPU fan which will create unwanted noise from my virtually silent (mute) computer. Well, 68k emulation would propably benefit from a faster CPU with faster memory. But it's not slow as it is now either, not for a "normal" user. (And the memory? Well, 512MB in an Amiga envireonment means a HUUUGE RAM: drive :-D)
I guess I will decide if I am going to use that upgrade offer when that becomes available. But I am not sure I will to tell the truth ...
-
I really don't understand what people are talking about when they say Pegasos II.
There hasn't even been a Pegasos I yet.
Explain someone?
-
@ MarkTime
I see your point. I guess you will still have some days to make up your mind if you want to continue waiting.
And 400 boards by september is not market building. hyperion, as small as they are, will lose 400 customers just by shooting themselves in the foot...I don't see genesi even making an impact for the short term.
I don't really think that Genesi is in a phase where they actually try to build a consumer market just yet. The pegasos was AFAIR aimed towards developers. BBRV have stated that they do not need the money from the Pegasos to survive. And think about it, Genesi has spent some really huge sums on shows alone. This to draw interest towards the platform, to attrackt partners and developers, to get a momentum. I didn't really believe the sum they spent on CES in Las Vegas alone (but now I have forgot it :-P)They are flying in developers and other people from all over the world to Paris (on Genesi's expense), they host developer conferences with travels and lodging payed for. Why? To sell some hundreds of the Pegasos mobo? No. That has never been their final goal, only the beginning. The Pegasos was to get a momentum going, to gain developers to the future platform.
The Genesi future will be the Eclipsis, STB's and other embedded devices, and who knows whatever else. And now, surprisingly, a machine that would actually be a better workstation or server than the Pegasos1 could ever be (not that the Pegasos1 is bad - but the 2:nd will be better ;-)). I think this is good news, because I felt that Genesi was lagging behind on the workstation/server market, and I thought that Genesi didn't see that market as a priority. But this proves different. This will bring Genesi up on par with todays Macs. I like that they didn't just go for the STB's alone!
-
@ Mountain_Myst
I have one on my desk. I believe it was launched at the WOASE show in 2002. I bought mine in December.
-
Is there any news about G4 CPU that can fully use DDR system memory bandwidth?
-
They are doing it the "Apple" way?
-
It's good to see such a straight'forward update from the Genesi team! :-) But the news of having no Pegasus 1 G4 upgrades and very limited availability does disappoint me. This is sad especially for various Amiga dealers and a few software developers. :-(
-
@MikeB & Mountain_Myst
Rather than focus on the negative, why not look to the positive? The existing Pegasos customers are not locked-into their G3's with upgrade options to the Pegasos II. While we won't see dual G4 for a few months yet, when they do arrive, they'll be paired with dual data rate and gigabit ethernet along with other features that have yet to be announced.
Plus, there is the coming STB's and the Eclipsis to fill the void. I honestly can't wait for the Eclipsis. It's just what I've always wanted.
-
And in November, Peggy III and December Peggy IV. But, wait, January 13, 2004 there will be Peggy V and January 21, 2004 Peggy VI....
Why would they even announce the upcomming Peg II, before the Peg 1's are out. What they're saying is, please buy this now because later on, it will be obsolete and you won't want to buy it then.
-
>Why would they even announce the upcomming
>Peg II, before the Peg 1's are out. What they're
>saying is, please buy this now because later on, it
>will be obsolete and you won't want to buy it then.
The Pegasos is out. There are people having the
hardware. Even more will get it starting with Monday.
However I think it is only fair to say what will be out
next and what won't be supported on the current
design so that nobody gets an wrong idea.
And I think it's a good move from Genesi and their
partners to not stay where they currently are but
instead make a step into the future with advanced
hardware specs.
-
Rather than focus on the negative, why not look to the positive? The existing Pegasos customers are not locked-into their G3's with upgrade options to the Pegasos II.
Sure it's good to have an upgrade option, provided given a good deal (any details?), but this board does sound pretty much like a new design and thus a good chance for additional future delays.
-
@mountainmyst
The Pegasos is the first board, I guess that there will be a total of around 1400 - 1500 out before the release of the Pegasos II. And yes, people has it use it, and Pegasos and MorphOS is working now, but I think that the problem of Articia S availibility and the inminent release of the new Articia Sa and P are the reason of this limited quantity of boards.
We are not used to have new Amiga models so fast, so the feeling is a little strange, at least for me. We are not used to be able to buy a new board much better and faster in so little time. We'll have to get used to it. Now that we use more standard components it's easier to launch new boards in a shorter period of time.
@ksk
Is there any news about G4 CPU that can fully use DDR system memory bandwidth?
Afaik, no, but being able to use DDR memory will help a lot when DIMMs start to dissapear (I would say that this kind of memory is being replaced by DDR and it's getting difficult to find it...)
@bbrv & hyperion
I'd like to see MorphOS for AmigaOne and OS4 for Pegasos(1/2). If you can't make this reality at least try to allow the developers some portability.
For example, the Firewire stack. I don't know if work has started in this, but it would be a good idea to start talking about this to avoid that both come with their own incompatible usb solution.
If you don't get on well between you, leave the work to a third party and ude it without exclusive agreements etc. The Amiga OS standards should be Open. Open as the OpenPCI library for example. And portable too. There's no sense in reinventing the wheel for things that don't exist yet.
Both of you are using AHI (thank you). Both of you are planing reimplementing the graphic library to avoid the need of using p96/cgx library (I mean, they are going to integrate the rtg libraries in the graphics.library, ending with 2 incompatible systems). One is p96 the other cgx. May you define a standard and make your OS compatible with it?
I think that projects like Phoenix should act as mediators between both partys to avoid the need of breaking the community in little pieces.
Both OS4 and MorphOS use a lot of third party products. Let's use the same products and standards so programmers have less work to support both systems. At the moment the only portable way to do things is to code without using specific OS extensions and using cgx and ahi... there are lots of incompatible drivers etc... sad. What about releasing a gcc distro that can compile code for MorphOS/Amithlon/OS4/OS3/AROS cahnging some flags? That would make the user (and programmer) lifes better.
ummm I should sleep, sometimes I write too much :-D
-
@ Kenny
"Judging by the progress of A1, OS4, MOS and Pegasos, I think Bill Gates."
Oh, that was great. It brough a good laugh for me. Oh, how ture it rings.
Thanks,
-
The Amiga market is moving again.
Very good.
Congratulation folks on your new Pegasos machines.
Hope the future brings you more good products to purchase.
Maybe later on down the road, we'll see some kind of integration between the two platforms.
I'm feelin' good. ;-)
-
But the news of having no Pegasus 1 G4 upgrades and very limited availability does disappoint me.
At first, me too was kind of disappointed over the missing G4 upgrade. But they seem to solve this through an upgrade offer to the brand new computer. Time will tell how that will turn out. And to tell the truth, the G3 is far better than I thought it would be. On MacOSX (which is rather bloated) I guess that one or two G4's with Altivitec is quite necessary. But MorphOS and its applications is really fast on the G3, so I won't suffer the least!
The availability is somewhat disappointing too. But the problems with Articia has been known for some time (quality and availability). They got 400 pieces of the "old" ones, and these are used now together with April. I don't know how big the backlog is, but this will propably fill some gaps. And by reserving 100 mobos for themselves they can still make sure that certain "key developers" of their choice will be able to start developing for the future products.
This is sad especially for various Amiga dealers and a few software developers.
Some Amiga dealers might propably be disappointed in the short term. But the volumes would have been quite low anyway. And I don't really think this will matter much to the SW developers. The Pegasos(1) was AFAIK never intended as a major consumer desktop platform (a competitor to Wintel). The main purpose of the Pegasos was to get those developers started in developing applications and solutions for the future, high volume, products.
-
@ weirdami
Why would they even announce the upcomming Peg II, before the Peg 1's are out. What they're saying is, please buy this now because later on, it will be obsolete and you won't want to buy it then.
Because they are straight and playing with open cards? Because there still is interest in Pegasos1? Because it has a backlog and people are complaining about that they want to get it but it is not available?
The Pegasos1 is still a great computer. What they are saying is, "You now have a choice. Do you want to continue waiting or stop waiting? If you want to, you can still buy the Pegasos1. But this is a limited offer. If you are thinking about doing some developing on the platform you can join Phoenix and buy a Pegasos motherboard today with a G3 600MHz processor for only €299".
And this is me adding: "Compare that to the A1 HW. And the A1 HW has not even been released yet. Even the less has OS4 been released. The A1 HW will eventually be released, but we are now about to leave those realms behind us and move forward towards even better HW".
How about that?
-
@ Mountain_Myst
I'm feelin' good. ;-)
Me too! :-D :-D :-D
-
If you read it ... Will Merlancia still use Pegasus boards for their comming computers??? Will you wait, or will you switch to the MAI/Eyetech solution? Or maybe another solution
No we will not use the MAI board in our current lineup. We will be using several Genesi solutions in our systems. The MAI board doesn't offer us what we need for the MCC, and the Pegasos does. It's that simple.
Note to those who questioned why any of our products are late: We are subject at all times to the delays of our business affiliates whose technology we are incorporating into our products.
Our products go beyond a Pegasos board. They are an integration of elegance, harmony, and balance with custom hardware and software that make them a viable solution in many markets. They are what Amiga is meant to be, a hardware product that defines the industry in the future...
If Eyetech or anyone else can offer us a design that we feel we can use in one of our products, we will make sure to take advantage of that oppertunity. Genesi has such a design, and we feel that for the MCC it is the best solution.
I hope this helps to understand our point of view a little.
Cheers,
//RC//
-
@ MikeB
Sure it's good to have an upgrade option, provided given a good deal (any details?), but this board does sound pretty much like a new design and thus a good chance for additional future delays.
I somewhat agree with you. This will propably be a completely new design. It might mean future delays, noone can say anything about that. But we do not know when the development started, and we do not now anything about their efforts and resources spent on this. It *could* be released on time. But we all know about the delays in all recent major HW projects ... :-(
There will still be some 300 Pegasos1 available though, for a (propably) very limited time ...
(Havent got used to call it "Pegasos1" instead of just "Pegasos" yet. But I guess progression is natural :-). Taste this: PegasosOne, or P1 :-D)
-
why bother with the pegosis 1 when it will be replaced with the pegosis 2. only 300 available they will still be trying to sell them 3 years later.
amigaone will be around in larger numbers than this . :-D :-o
-
Yes the amazing quantity of 300 motherboards! :-)
It reminds me of Amiga Onenewboard each day :-)
I realise that the market is small but if people arn´t able to buy the products it will only get smaller.
If hardware is to expensive to develop go sofware only.
That was aimed at both AmigaOne and MorphOS
Still I don´t know what the demand for Pegasosboards is.
I still haven´t decided which way to go . :-?
Sigh wonder if we ever are going back to tensofthousands boards as in the A500days. :-(
Boards are cheaper to produce in higher quantity aleast if they are contracted out. Makes me wonder why 300 and not 500 as i imagine they cost perboardreduction to be in ine with 1-50, 100,500,1000,5000,.....
Still it´s good news that they are available.
:pint:
-
Neither the PegasosOne :-) or the AmigaOne was IMO positioned as a mass produced desktop computer (read: wintel replacement). Hence, no mass production yet ...
-
Not that I'd call myself a fanatic, but although I'm having rather mixed feelings about this, I think we do anyway have to give Genesi credit to be fair enough to tell this everyone in advance - instead of continueing to produce and sell Pegasos-Ones until the Pegasos-II is on sale.
You can call your self what you like but your actions speek for them self.
It dont make sence not to sell Peg untill Peg 2 is out.
You hold the users with what you have untill the next is ready.
that would be like
MicroSoft would never stop selling the Windows-XP now cos they will have a better one in 6 months time.
It just dont work that way.
No one does that.
-
@ amigamad
amigaone will be around in larger numbers than this .
Let's hope so. And let's hope that some people will actually buy it (to the price they are asking), despite the fact that newer and better products will be around the corner from some competitors! ;-)
-
Indoro wrote
Our products go beyond a Pegasos board. They are an integration of elegance, harmony, and balance with custom hardware and software that make them a viable solution in many markets. They are what Amiga is meant to be, a hardware product that defines the industry in the future...
Only if Amiga was meant to be thinair
which it sure sounds like you are trying to sell :lol:
-
@ Alkemyst
The cards are on the table for everyone to view. If you do not want to buy a PegasosOne ;-) then you don't have to. But then you will have to wait. If you want to start developing for the future products right now, there will be a limited chance to get the PegasosOne hardware before it is sold out completely. Buy now or wait. Your choice!
-
@takemehomegrandma
Sorry but your action here says to me that you dont really think what has happened is a good thing.
You have your Peg unlike some unlucky others
But yet you sit here & have posted a hell of a lot on this thread & have been hitting the reload button no doubt & have nearly replyed to every post on this thread.
I have seen your trend when Aone or Aos4 held back for what ever reason & you have hammered down.
But now its on the other foot your tone is now trying to sound more of a person of fair & realistic reason.
But that dont count cos that is not what you were willing to show with Aos4/Aone delays.
Where are all thoses MOS ppl now saying dont wait for Aone-XE/Aos4 get a peg.
But now its OK to ask ppl wanting a Peg to wait even longer but it was not ok to ask ppl to wait
for an Aone/Aos4
-
Neither the PegasosOne or the AmigaOne was IMO positioned as a mass produced desktop computer (read: wintel replacement). Hence, no mass production yet ...
But how many people is willing to invest in new Amigacomputer? Are we truly reduced to a few hundreds
?
this feels like we are sad an pathetic like the last atarians :boohoo:
Well let´s hope AmigaDE Inc goes into liquidation so hyperion can make AmigaOS4 for everyone wheather they own A1,P1,P2, x86 or whatever
-
Total joke, nothing in the Amiga market is serious anymore, delay after delay after delay after delay after delay and now they expect the users to wait.
All Amiga companies need to get their act together for once and start producing something instead of this madness which will cost them in the end.
And you people call Microsoft LOL.
-
Pegasos boards won't be available to any customers until September and this is supposed to be a good thing?
I dont think their doing any worse off then the competition...
-
We the AmigaOS 4.x fanatics (them who has the money) might get dual G4 in some weeks ... The MorphOS fanatics might be lucky to get single G4 in some month
how can you be an AmigaOS fanatic and have a PPC board that dosent run AmigaOS?... I mean until Hyperion creates this OS (wich was due out how many times now) will you run Linux? ... I can run Linux right now on a PC :P
On a more serious note... I think that Pegasos2 sounds cool but I do think its a setback that they didnt at least allow some time to pass before revealing its existance.
I hope Pegasos/MorphOS dont go under...if they did I'd have nothing left to play with... as I've decided I wont get an AmigaOne because of the rom/dongle...
So I do hope that they are able to at least get 'one' of these boards produced in enough quantity to give all the people in the MorphOS community a system.
-
It seems Genesi is going to get the first boards in the hand of developers and by the time they sell the P2 they may have a more complete widget to sell.
What happens happens. This is likely due to their difficulty in obtaining northbridge chips. I'd like something more concrete in terms of what the P2 will be.
Oh well.
-
It dont make sence not to sell Peg untill Peg 2 is out.
Well, my personal *speculation* is aimed at MAI. For the very last 400 "old" Articias Genesi do have their April-1. But this chip, as far as I know, is difficult to mount on the boards. And if maybe now they have again found a bug also in the new Articia-design or if the old bugs are only fixed unsatisfyingly in it (maybe just as a kind of integrated April-solution instead of a complete and therefore maybe more expensive redesign of the Articia to really remove the error), then of course it would mak more sense for Genesi to completely switch to a different northbridge. Because an unsatisfyingly fixed Articia-redesign would give them less performance, I'd say. And if they'd even still need a (even new to design) April(2 or 3)-chip for future boards, it would make even more sense, since this difficult to mount solution obviously wouldn't qualify for mass-production. And last but not least MAI's supply shortfalls would be a supporting reason to change the northbridge completely.
-
And I think it's a good move from Genesi and their partners to not stay where they currently are but instead make a step into the future with advanced hardware specs.
Yes, especially given the recent fears of some people, Genesi could become STB-only. This new, more modern Pegasos-II-board obviously is a clear commitment to stay in the desktop-market as well.
-
Pegasos boards won't be available to any customers until September and this is supposed to be a good thing?(/quote]
I dont think their doing any worse off then the competition...
The competition? There are already G4XEs out there.
I'm sure the G3 Pegasos 1 is a nice little beast, but in the end it's turned out to be no more upgradeable than the A1g3SE (also a nice little beast). It would have been more honest not to publicise a upgrade for 200 euros before finding out the thing wasn't upgradeable.
-
> as I've decided I wont get an AmigaOne because of the rom/dongle...
:-? How does the dongle detract from the value of the AmigaOne?
Kay
-
Pegasos2? :-o
Cool 8-)
-
downix wrote:
@MikeB & Mountain_Myst
Rather than focus on the negative, why not look to the positive? The existing Pegasos customers are not locked-into their G3's with upgrade options to the Pegasos II. While we won't see dual G4 for a few months yet, when they do arrive, they'll be paired with dual data rate and gigabit ethernet along with other features that have yet to be announced.
Plus, there is the coming STB's and the Eclipsis to fill the void. I honestly can't wait for the Eclipsis. It's just what I've always wanted.
Who is always focused on all the negative stuff ... I think You are the One ;-)
-
@ Alkemyst
Sorry but your action here says to me that you dont really think what has happened is a good thing.
You have your Peg unlike some unlucky others
But yet you sit here & have posted a hell of a lot on this thread & have been hitting the reload button no doubt & have nearly replyed to every post on this thread.
Well, this was a surprizing thwist and I first had some split feelings about it all. But the whole issue matured in my head and now I really think it's a good thing. I guess I made quite a lot of posts here during that process :-D .
I have seen your trend when Aone or Aos4 held back for what ever reason & you have hammered down.
I have? :-?
I think I might have been pointing out an available alternative for those still waiting, but I have respect for the OS4 effort. (But I have a lot lesser respect for the "A1" hardware for obvious reasons).
But now its on the other foot your tone is now trying to sound more of a person of fair & realistic reason.
But that dont count cos that is not what you were willing to show with Aos4/Aone delays.
The OS4 supporters are still waiting for "their" PPC OS to be released. They have waited a LOONG time now. The A1 customers are still waiting for their HW, HW which will still be Articia-S based with all it's limitations. This wait for the new Pegasos will be different in that sense that it will be new and better HW. The PegasosOne has allready been in the Articia-S realms. Been there and done that, so to say. MorphOS exists and is being used by many people. I will continue to use MorphOS and follow it's evolution. That is the difference between the "waiting" for the two solutions, and that is what makes it uncomparable. It also explain my different "Point of View" towards the waiting for the two systems.
Where are all thoses MOS ppl now saying dont wait for Aone-XE/Aos4 get a peg.
I'm here! :-D
Get a Pegasos now! Get it on Monday, because it might quickly run out of stock! :-)
But now its OK to ask ppl wanting a Peg to wait even longer but it was not ok to ask ppl to wait for an Aone/Aos4
If you want a usable system based on the Articia-S performance and specifications, the PegasosOne will be available for a short time starting from monday(?). You can use this with MorphOS as you used to use your Amiga. Or you can wait until late summer (at least IMO) for a new computer with better specification.
I guess you could also continue waiting for the Articia-S based A1 HW, and the OS4. It's not impossible that you can start using your Articia-S based A1 as an Amiga (due to OS4) by the same time as the new PegasosTwo will be available. But it's of course your choice to make! :-)
-
Somewhere out there Alan Redhouse is throwing a massive party.
This is very bad news no matter how you look at it or what 'camp' you are in. The Amiga alternative won't be available for AT LEAST 6 months. This is bad for A1/OS4 people to because it takes some pressure off Hyperion.
I have some other comments but I am trying to follow what my mother taught me.
[color=6600FF]If you dont have anything good to say, dont say anything at all.[/color]
-
There are already G4XEs out there.
Undoubtedly, but more and more it appears from the various websites
and MLs that the Articia-S is still too buggy to let the G4 perform
optimally. Which makes Genesi's decision very plausible. If they had
to design, produce and mount a new April-2/3 for the newer Articia's
also, it's better to change for a new, bug-free chip.
As soon as someone does have an Amiga-One-G4, could (s)he please post
some real-life values of its performance? At ANN.lu for example
someone claims the L2-cache wouldn't work with the G4 and the current
Articia on the AmigaOne, only with the G3.
-
My thoughts on this are that no product should be advertised as "obsolete" or "soon to be replaced" for any reason. It's good that they are looking forward to the next design, but that should be transparent to the end user. When the PegasosII is nearing a presentable stage, then it should have been announced that the original Pegasos would be phased out. That's the way a normal company would do it. You don't stop production on something people want and not make it available for 7 months, just because you want to "up the ante" against the competition.
@senex
Unless you have some proof that they have found more bugs in Artica, etc.... please stop speculating. (that is where the term FUD comes in). Do you really think that Mai would have recently recieved "Ready for IBM Technology" validation of the Artica S if it was so buggy as you claim??? To quote from Mai's page:
"MAI Logic has successfully developed optimized supporting devices and reference designs for PowerPCTM microprocessor application platforms which have passed a rigorous PowerPCTM compatibility validation testing process by IBM Microelectronics labs,"said Lisa Su, Director of PowerPCTM and emerging products, IBM Microelectronics. "Solutions like MAI's 'Ready for IBM Technology' chipset and evaluation systems give developers more ways to enhance their applications, resulting in improved time to market, more cost effective designs, and improved performance products by our OEM customers."
Doesn't sound like the bug laden chip you are trying to make it out to be. And the other thing to think about is that engineering samples of the Artica P are listed as being available in 1Q2003. So it's not out of the question that it could be used for the Pegasos II.
-
Here is a Wuote from Ben Hermans taken from ann.lu
Hmm, strange.
We must all be dreaming then at least 20 people are now using L2 and L3 cache with a G4 pn their AmigaOne's.
Maybe I'm living in an alternate universe.
http://ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1045856742&category=news&start=101#message136 (http://ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1045856742&category=news&start=101#message136)
You shouldn't always listen to everybody at ann.lu/amiga.org saying anything "badly" about Amiga/Hyperion/Eyetech/Mai/... ;-)
-
Well, I'm not sure we should believe everything that is said by Hermans & co either...
Hermans lied about the articia problems too.
-
@ Herewegoagain
Unless you have some proof that they have found more bugs in Artica, etc.... please stop speculating.
I agree, all these "speculations" are pretty useless and contradict most previous statements made by MorphOS supporters in the past.
Based on what I know, I would say that it is likely that Mai does not want to deal with Genesi any more, which IMO is their good right based on past happenings.
If there are so severe problems with the Articia S chipset, how could anyone ever claim that their current (old-Articia S) Pegasos product is so great?
So, do you understand that you are also directing your FUD towards those still unsold, yet soon to be available Pegasos boards?
I am the last to claim that larger hardware or software projects could be guaranteed to be completely bugless. However why would you be so sure that Genesi will not "find" any bugs in other hardware or software products?
-
the Articia is a disaster.
But I agree proofs should be given for those who don't believe this.
-
Sorry for my useless posts !
Anyway, we just all lack facts !
Ppl who believe Hyperion will always be against ppl who believe guys from the MOS team...
So let's just stop being sided, and only judge from real facts.
So, can anyone prove us the articia bugs on A1's ?
-
@ Mahen
the Articia is a disaster
I do not agree, based on what I have heard from people using Linux in combination with AmigaOne solutions.
Anyway, as you guys have stated that Apple hardware support is also planned for MorphOS, why shouldn't you guys use such widely available solutions as development platforms in the meantime instead?
And why should anyone want to buy those "disaster" Pegasos boards, available upcoming Monday?
-
>I do not agree, based on what I have heard from
>people using Linux in combination with AmigaOne
>solutions
Sorry, are you telling me that after being announced
for March 2002, then delayed until November, then
again bug fixed, delivered only a small number then
switched to XE version which is delayed because of
missing G4 CPUs and will have again(!) a new Articia
revision, are you telling us that everything is brilliant
with that NB?
-
zacman: that was my point ;) The articia had and may still have (according to some ppl, but not according to some other ppl) serious problems.
That's why I personnally don't trust the articia anymore.
-
Anyway, we just all lack facts !
Ppl who believe Hyperion will always be against ppl who believe guys from the MOS team...
So let's just stop being sided, and only judge from real facts.
So, can anyone prove us the articia bugs on A1's ?
No, it's not about being against someone who is "on the other side". If you read the link on Mai's website, the Artica S has been given IBM's approval. IBM are not on either side. IBM has evaluated the product and said it works as should with PPC. Doesn't mean that it is completely bug free, as nothing is ever totally bug free. But Senex is making it sound as though the chip is still so buggy that it's completely unusable for the Pegasos or any other system.
Don't believe me or MAI's website? Go here and look on IBM's site.
Click here for info on Teron PX with Artica S and it's validation with IBM. (http://www8.software.ibm.com/solutions/isv/igssg.nsf/AllSolutionsbyID/86256B7C0019CE5B86256C77006A7CAC?OpenDocument)
Or check IBM's site here for info on all MAI products. (http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/wired/alliances/mai_logic.html)
Now will you say that IBM don't know enough about the chip to say it's ok? Or are they just giving it approval based on MAI saying it is ok and works???
-
@ Zacman
As I stated many times before, the old OF BIOS previously used for the AmigaOne was very buggy and thus caused much delay. Luckily Hyperion has taken care of these problems for Mai.
The AmigaXE motherboards, preferred to by most Amiga users, have been announced for a much later date than March 2002. These boards are currently being tested by quite a few beta-testers and come with a new improved Articia chipset.
I expect and hope that there will be many new enhancements and revisions available with regard to future chipsets. This is IMO a normal and healthy development process, which can also be witnessed within the x86 market.
With regard to delays, I should maybe point out the excellence and experience of the Phase5/bPlan hardware development team. Despite their hardware development expertise they failed to deliver the A/BOX computing solution they announced in 1996 and also suffered various delays with regard to their current Pegasos products.
Mai is a very competent, highly regarded hardware development company, and compared to them bPlan is/was a very small fish.
-
@ the usual suspects
I have always wondered if strobe, mips_proc et al were
indeed the ever "clear-eyed" doom-mongering realists/pessimists
that they tend to appear sometimes.
In a way it's relieving to now see the lot desperately
defending this announcment, trying to dig out the positive
aspects of it.
Just as the oft-accused "blind followers"
would do, if this were an announcement from the Triarchy.
I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm not even saying this
announcments haven't some positive aspects worth
bringing forth. That's not my point. Just good to see
you guys react as expected when some unforseen
controversy are suddenly coming your way.
But I would like to ask you to consider how your posts
would be phrased if the name 'Genesi' in this announcment
had been replaced with "Eyetech" - or indeed any of the
Triarchy companies.
(Mr Gadd never disappoints though - in his own little way -
he at least manages to keep up his attitude on all sides of
the "fence". :-P )
.
SlimJim
-
@Senex
"it appears from the various websites
and MLs that the Articia-S is still too buggy to let the G4 perform optimally. "
All I have seen so far is that the A1G4XE beats 2.4Ghz P4 (http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1287)... ;-) Yes there is a smiley.
Can you provide any link to reveal how badly the G4 performs on the A1?
ahh.. I notised at the end of your post that you did not yet have one.
-
@ SlimJim
Since I have made a great deal of the posts in this thread, I will propably be one of those "usual suspects". So I will give my view of it.
But I would like to ask you to consider how your posts
would be phrased if the name 'Genesi' in this announcment
had been replaced with "Eyetech" - or indeed any of the
Triarchy companies.
*IF* Eytech had released the A1 *together* with the OS4 half year ago, I would propably have had it a month or so after it's release. I would have been using it till this day. And if Eyetech then declares that they will make a new, much better computer, and release it in late summer, I would have been very glad. If they at the same time would announce that there will only be a limited numbers of the "old" A1 to be sold until the new computer is released, I would have been somewhat bothered. But not very *much bothered*, since I allready would have had my A1 secured.
A lot of "if"s as you can see. Because that is the only way to compare the two situations. You can not just switch names, you have to look at the accomplishments too!
Genesi has delivered. Eyetech+Hyperion has not. As simple as that!
-
the Articia is a disaster.
But I agree proofs should be given for those who don't believe this.
OK, for your proofs you'd better start with me, Ole-Egil and all the others that have been using Articia S on an A1 for the last 10 months.
Know what such a stupid (and untrue) statement says to me? It says "somebody's been such an asshole - giving out biased half-truths and insulting public statements - with MAI that it's a good bet MAI don't want to deal with them anymore, and now it's fox-and-grapes time"
I wonder how close to the truth this is. I suppose the best indication will be the number of screams of anger this post produces.
-
Meanwhile there's an update at href="http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=222&page=32>MorphOS-News.de, confirming the replacement of the northbridge for the new board and that all Pegasos-I-owners can exchange their boards to a Peg-II-board for only 200 Euro, i.e. the price originally planned for the G4-CPU-card upgrade.
-
Genesi has delivered. Eyetech+Hyperion has not. As simple as that!
Both have delivered something on the hardware side. Neither are available to the general public who wants to go buy one. And the number of boards produced by either company is hardly an amount to boast about or reason to claim victory over the other.
Bottom line, they both are yet unavailable to the end consumer, so they are practically at the same status, regardless of who is further along in development or not. Neither has an advantage right now, other than personal preferences. It really IS as simple as that!
-
(I posted this on ANN first, but as we're seeing the same "positive spin" here, i figure it's worth a repost. Of course, the debate here is a LOT more civilized than ANN...)
Well, well, well…
After months of putting up with the MOS camp followers ridiculing every delay with the AmigaOne/OS4 we finally get to see the truth behind the scenes of the Righteous Followers of Thendic. It is all so clear now that the torrent of abuse that Hyperion and Eyetech have had to put with the relentless stream of attacks was to deflect attention away from problems with the rival product. To quote from Wizard of Oz, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"
Please refresh my memory… who were these people gloating over the AmigaOne delays? Oh yes, I remember: Max, Senex, David Scheibler, Stobe, Mahan, Chessegrate, Nicolas Sallin and a handful of others. Surprisingly, it’s the very same people who are now defending this sad Pegasos announcement and doing their utmost to turn it into another attack on Eyetech/Hyperion.
"This is good news!!!", they cry.
"Bollocks!!!", we all shout back.
"You’ll be able to trade your P1 for a P2 they cry.",
"Pegasos 2?", we ask, "Is that like a BoXeR 2?"
Why should we believe them? These are the same people that told us that there was no "Mai without April" (Apparently, as far as the Pegasos goes, there’s no Mai with it either), they told us that the A1XE couldn’t use a G4, they told us it couldn’t use a dual G4 module, they told us Amiga Inc had gone bust, they told us OS4 had stopped development,…. And best of all, they told us that the Pegasos 1 would have G4 and dual G4 cards (remember, the AamigaOne wouldn’t – big selling point).
Sorry guys. Your credibility is now ZERO, zip, bugger all. Kindly stop trying to put a positive spin on this because you can. Stop attacking Eyetech over this – it’s not their problem. Stop attacking Ben over this – he’s not responsible.
I must admit that I have been very impressed with the way that the Pegasos was being marketed by Bill Buck. He’s done wonders at pushing this product, defending his position on newsgroups, attending the shows and striking deals to get developers on board in order to produce software. I view his press announcements in the same way I view Amiga Inc’s – Overly positive because it’s his job to SELL and PROMOTE his product over the competition. No-one puts out a press release to slag their wares. In the same way, I can accept this announcement in the same way that Eyetech have had to pass on bad news to their waiting customers. However, to say that Thendic are blameless for peddling a product advertised as being able to accept an announced G4 module and then turning around and saying “sorry” is just not on. You can argue that Thendic have been good enough to provide a cheap upgrade to the Pegasos 2, but that’s not a work of kindness from Thendic – it’s simply the very LEAST they could do. Quite simply, the Pegasos 1 has been marked under false pretenses with regards to G4 and this offer simply covers Thendic from people demanding their money back. Of course, it doesn’t make up for the fact that these G4 modules were supposed to be available and on sale.
#### happens in this industry. Delays happen, problems arise and hardware fails. The original AmigaOne was lost well before the waiting public were told it had been flushed down the toilet and I personally purchased an Elbox Tower for my A1200 to house one when the people behind the scenes already knew it wasn’t going to be released. I can accept this. I can accept the Pegasos 1 project going to hell over discovered problems and I think it’s excellent that there will be a (better) Pegasos 2. What I can’t stomach is the mindless morons that think it’s OK for this to happen to Thendic, but when it happens to Eyetch then they deserve to by crucified. Two faced hypocrites!!!
Enough of this rant. To Pegasos 1 owners: I hope you get your upgrade to the Pegasos 2. To those people who ordered a G4 Pegasos 1: Time to change your order to an AmigaOne XEG4. To those people waiting for the Pegasos 2 – better make yourselves comfortable…
One lesson we can all learn from this is to stop attacking the "other side", because it’s not funny when the situation turns around and bites you on the ass. Plus, if you do insist on going on the offensive then don’t cry like a baby when you find yourself subjected to a full counter-attack.
-
@ takemehomegrandma
Genesi has delivered. Eyetech+Hyperion has not. As simple as that!
I disagree, IMO neither the AmigaOS4 team nor the MorphOS team have delivered a satisfying end user solution yet. (Also note that the AmigaOS4 project was started years after the MorphOS project)
For the amount of Genesi products currently available on the market and for the near future, I can only look at the current solution as a temporary "development platform". Not an enduser product available in acceptable quantities.
Both the AmigaOneG3-SE and PegasosG3 have been available to general consumers. However I believe it is also important to ask, what solution does the average Amigan really want? Polls show that an AmigaOne-XE in combination with AmigaOS4 is a much more popular solution than a Pegasos/MorphOS solution.
So even if a MorphOS/Pegasos solution would have been widely available, for many Amigans the product they desire still wouldn't be delivered.
Take me for example, I like MorphOS. But I greatly prefer AmigaOS4 and if I would have to choose a secondary OS available for the AmigaOne platform, I would still greatly prefer LinuxPPC over MorphOS. To be honest, I would even be more interested in a new Umilator for my PC and laptop, than MorphOS available for the AmigaOne.
-
>OK, for your proofs you'd better start with me, Ole-
>Egil and all the others that have been using Articia
>S on an A1 for the last 10 months.
Wait. Are you telling me that you had ten months the
machine and did not find the first bugs which then
later need to be fixed in the A1 SE and neither found
the bugs that have been fixed in the new Articia S
revision? Is that what you*re telling? 10 months?
Wow.
-
Well, I hope that Genesi puts an extra ROM socket on the Pegasos II. (Are you listening Genesi?? ;-) )
There are those who will want it, and as long as you are redesigning....might as well provide for that too!
-
As Eyetech have the distro rights on these boards... i'm speculating (no proof) that maybe, just maybe Redhouse has been leaning on MAI to encourage them not to supply Genesi with the chips.....
... as i said just speculation, but it begs the question as to why Eyetech can get these chips and Genesi cannot....
What do you think?
-
the question as to why Eyetech can get these chips and Genesi cannot...
Well, regarding Genesi's latest statement it's not a matter of not getting them, but of not wanting them because of further bugs...
-
Well WindowsXP don't use ArticiaS's :-D , and use Microsoft to make contrast with Genesi :-? , i hope you don't do this with "WinXXXX vs MorphOS" ;-) .
-
Well, regarding Genesi's latest statement it's not a matter of not getting them, but of not wanting them because of further bugs...
Personally I highly doubt this. The executives of Terra Soft, Eyetech and Mai were not at all happy with Bill's FUD approach with regard to their efforts.
Sadly his latest update contains yet again similar misleading FUD...
"Our G3 Pegasos performs better than the G4 Teron with the Articia. "
For instance I know that the PegasosG3 performs similar to the AmigaOSG3-SE (Linux). So I have my severe doubts about i.e. a G4 AmigaOne-XE or Teron board performing worse than a G3 solution at similar clock rates. ;-)
At the same clock frequency the G4 already has a much better floating point perfomance. Additionally, with regard to Altivec optimised software, there will often be very significant additional performance gains. :-)
-
My thoughts on this are that no product should be advertised as "obsolete" or "soon to be replaced" for any reason. It's good that they are looking forward to the next design, but that should be transparent to the end user. When the PegasosII is nearing a presentable stage, then it should have been announced that the original Pegasos would be phased out
And then a Zillion of retarded users will start to call BBRV a liar.
-
For instance I know that the PegasosG3 performs similar to the AmigaOSG3-SE (Linux). So I have my severe doubts about i.e. a G4 AmigaOne-XE or Teron board performing worse than a G3 one.
And you've done labratory-condition benchmarks to proove this? If so, please, post the results here for everyone to see. Please make sure which revision of the motherboard, Rev1.0, Rev1.0A or Rev1.0B you used for the test, what peripheral cards are included, which OS and most of all which industry-approved benchmarks you used for the test. I would very much appreciate having such a test done, as would many others.
-
Wait. Are you telling me that you had ten months the
machine and did not find the first bugs which then
later need to be fixed in the A1 SE and neither found
the bugs that have been fixed in the new Articia S
revision? Is that what you*re telling? 10 months?
Wow.
No. The first bugs were so arcane (ie did not affect the use of the mobo as an ordinary desktop 'puter) that we didn't notice them in all of 5 months' use. Gerard Carda did, bully for him (no, seriously, he did a good job).
As for the new revision - which comprises the fixes for the bugs in question (2 of them) - I would be interested to learn in what way it is buggy, especially as only A1XE owners have one at present.
As for the "other bugs" - so noisily trumpeted as being fixed [1], yet MAI, who readily accepted the other 2, claim to be unable to reproduce and therefore dispute their existence - are they really a problem with the Articia S, or a problem with the design of the Pegasos (or its firmware)?
I'm still waiting for proof, not innuendo, FUD, or any other form of denigration, of the Articia S being a disaster, bearing in mind I use the damn thing on a daily basis and find it works rather well. As do quite a few other people, BTW.
[1] though if the wonderful April chip does fix these problems, why can't the Pegasos 1 use a G4 as originally promised ? Of course, this may have nothing to do with the hardware, but then the obvious reason would then be that Genesi can't afford to pay for the chips, having spent all its money in marketing. Not a good sign either.
-
@ Senex
"Well, regarding Genesi's latest statement it's not a matter of not getting them, but of not wanting them because of further bugs..."
Don't tell me you actually believe that?
Come on, at least agree that it sounds like a very bad excuse.
I find it hard to believe that Genesi stops the production on their own free will, after selling only 1500 pegasos'es.
If the MAI bridge is so bad why produce the last batch of PEGS?
I find it much more likely that MAI simply said "no more Articias for you". They could have several reasons to do this.
-
@ Downix
And you've done labratory-condition benchmarks to proove this?
LOL, Downix do you really think you would need labratory-condition benchmarks? I would like to use my AmigaOne within my spare bedroom instead. :-D
With regard to the board model used, he must have compared the Pegasos to the latest Teron models. I know that Genesi owns an old evaluation board with a Softex ROM. You don't possibly mean to say that they have used this old board for their "labratory-condition" benchmarking?
If so, please, post the results here for everyone to see.
Why don't you ask Genesi to back up their wild claims? LOL
-
@MikeB
Personally I highly doubt this. The executives of Terra Soft, Eyetech and Mai were not at all happy with Bill's FUD approach with regard to their efforts.
Well.. how come Genesi still got those 400 Articia-S? If there had been such skism as you suggest, why Mai bothered selling and sending them to Genesi at all? They cound have used those chips as a landfill and concentrate to those bigsellers like Eyetech :-P
For the rest of your post.. I'll think keep on commenting for now... Hold that thought for couple weeks.
-
Well.. how come Genesi still got those 400 Articia-S?
Could be the last shipment according to contract?
Or maybe MAI knew that they wouldn't have other costumors for it as Eyetech wanted to wait for the new fixed ones.
There could be a zillion reasonS, all we are doing here is just wild speculation:-D
-
@ anarchic_teapot
A disaster for one company is business as usual for another. Genesi might have specific needs from their northbridge that Mai promiced but cannot deliver. (The RAM issue is still one that looms, for example) Genesi claimed that Mai did not work as advertised. This does not preclude the Mai from working, just not as-advertised. Where Mai is deficient may not appear in a desktop solution, for example. But remember, Genesi needs more out of their chipset vendor than *just* the Pegasos, as shown by the Eclipsis and STB deals. If Mai cannot deliver as-promised, then Genesi has wisely chosen a vendor which can deliver what was promised.
As for the G4 question, they never said it *couldn't* run a G4, but that Genesi was not going to deliver a G4 card for it. Commodore never made 68060 nor PowerPC cards for the Amiga either, yet I once owned a card with both of these processors on it at one time for my A1200. Also, as noted in the list, those owners of a Peg I can upgrade to a G4, by trading in their Peg I for a Peg II and paying the $200 for the G4 card (which was the original price anyways).
-
@ JoannaK
f there had been such skism as you suggest, why Mai bothered selling and sending them to Genesi at all?
As can be gathered from earlier message board postings with regard to these older articia chips, according the Bill Buck, Mai and their partners would not have much use for these older chips, as all new AmigaOne-XE and Teron boards will be shipped with newer Articia chips anyway.
-
Why don't you ask Genesi to back up their wild claims?
You're the one challenging it.
If you insist on a benchmark comparison, however, I can ask around to find a 3rd party willing to make one, if you'd back me up on it being a fair and unbiased test. I'd also need someone with an A1 board to compare with, preferably a few different variations on such (the original G3 model, single G4 model, dual G4 model) and I can discuss with the other pegasos owners to get a comparison of the now 3 revisions of the board. It's the only way to be fair, agreed?
-
@downix
Why do you say that it is MikeB who is challenging it???You're the one challenging it.
It was bbrv who was saying that the Pegasos I (G3 - oh yes, no G4 ) is faster than the MAI/Eyetech G4 ... he can not say that without any tests ... that is a false claim ... why should MikeB prove that the AmigaOne board is the fastest one, when it is bbrv that has gone wild in the darkness?
-
I still speculate that MAI has pulled the plug on Genesi, mostly because of the eyetech contract.... If i were eyetech I would lean on MAI...
I seriously doubt genesi has discounted these chips until late this year because theyre not good enough.. i think they've had no choice in the matter.... whatever it's bad news either way....
One platform *must* succeed and more delays are only prohibitive....
To stop production until late 2003 (read 2004) is suicide on any other grounds than unavailability..... therefore i read that Genesi can not source these chips... which is a shame.. it a nice piece of h/w
We're all in the same boat...
-
>yet MAI, who readily accepted the other 2, claim to
>be unable to reproduce
So you don't remember that MAI denied the first bug
too? Only after a long period of time they said that
they can reproduce it and also only because Mr
Carda was in Fremont, CA for two weeks...
>or a problem with the design of the Pegasos (or its
>firmware)
Like the first bug Mr Carda found?
>I use the damn thing on a daily basis and find it
>works rather well.
There are other people also using the Pegasos and
it works fine for them. But that doesn't mean you
don't actually have to fix the bugs. Oops this ram
module doesn't work? Well it's not a bug - it's a
feature, you know low power ...
>why can't the Pegasos 1 use a G4 as originally
>promised ?
They could. But it doesn't make sense just to give
them a CPU card so that people can feel good when
you know that there could be much more speed if
there was another NB. It would be unfair to all of
those who want the real speed of the G4 CPU.
-
>Could be the last shipment according to contract?
Ehm the shipment of these Articia chips has been
worked out together with MAI at CES 2003.
I'm sure if there were chips available in numbers
(read more than 25/50 or 100) and be bugfree then
Genesi would take.
-
@ Downix
I can ask around to find a 3rd party willing to make one, if you'd back me up on it being a fair and unbiased test.
Be my guest. These tests should be well documented and easily reproducable and I would happily accept them as being genuine.
You're the one challenging it.
So you think I should blindly accept everything BB feeds us? As I said, based on my personal experiences, the performance of currently available G3 solutions are about equivalent.
With regard to processor performance tests, I rather believe the benchmarks provided by IBM and Motorola. Do you truly understand what it would take to objectively test all possible benchmark scenarios? For instance did these "tests", BB refers to, include Altivec optimised software tests? Altivec optimisations can result into performance gains up to 60%, but the performance gains do differ for different types of software.
-
They could. But it doesn't make sense just to give them a CPU card so that people can feel good when you know that there could be much more speed if there was another NB. It would be unfair to all of those who want the real speed of the G4 CPU.
LOL! It's so funny to hear all of this now. Before this announcement the Pegasos was "all that, and a bag of chips". Now it's dumping the current chipset because it's so buggy they cannot get the real speed of the G4 CPU!!!! Please stop trying to make excuses for Genesi and Pegasos. It's not the worst thing that they are redesigning it. But please at least be willing to look at all of the companies involved Eyetech, Mai, IBM, Terrasoft, etc... and they are not having these problems that the Pegasos is having. Just for once admit that it could inherently be a design flaw in the original Pegasos board. It wouldn't be a crime, and certainly not the first time this sort of thing has happened.
People on "both sides", please listen. These boards are new and in the greater scheme of things, RELATIVELY UNTESTED in everyday use. That's not to say completely untested, but problems will continue to arrise from both side as the user base grows. The orignal Amiga's had issues that had to be worked on as well. Genesi obviously see's a need to go back and redesign. Good. While they are at it, they will make improvements based upon what is currently available. That makes sense. This will likely happen in the next revision of AmigaOnes as well (it's already happened to a lesser extent). Let's just see what the next few months hold for us all.
This is good news in the long run. As it ups the specs that AmigaOne systems will have to match. Maybe the next version will use DDR and AGP4-8X and etc. By this, Genesi are pushing Eyetech to start on the next big thing (if they haven't already). That can only be good for us all.
-
>Now it's dumping the current chipset because it's
>so buggy they cannot get the real speed of the G4
>CPU
Look, MAI would be really happy to deliver chips for the new Pegasos and Pegasos-based hardware.
> But please at least be willing to look at all of the >companies involved Eyetech, Mai, IBM, Terrasoft
Yes, you're right IBM is really interested in the
current situation with the MAI chipsets.
-
Yes, you're right IBM is really interested in the
current situation with the MAI chipsets.
Are you trying to be sarcastic, or do you have inside info from IBM? If IBM were so concerned and not satisfied over the quality of MAI's chips, why did the Articia S and Teron CX/PX boards just recieve "Ready for IBM Technology" validation from IBM itself? And why are IBM listing MAI and their products on their website if it is so buggy?
-
I still speculate that MAI has pulled the plug on Genesi, mostly because of the eyetech contract.... If i were eyetech I would lean on MAI...
How? eyetech is not any bigger actor on the PPCmotherboardscene than Genesi
It probably as more todo with Genesis claims of bugs in the chipset i.e it´s between genesi and mai.
-
Well, if all this is true, then I guess the proper thing to do is see it go out in style.
(music starts)
(people stand in attention)
(Preacher speaks)
R.I.P. Genesi
So long Pegasos
Bye Bye MorpOS
(music fades)
(Crowd starts to speak amongst one another...)
It was so young and full of energy.
How can this be?
It's such a tragedy.
First H&P, and now this.
When will it end?
:-(
Crowd starts to disassemble and leave the building, but not without remembering what could have been.
Not without looking upon it one last time.
Bye...
We love you...
:-(
and so ends another episode of "The last Amiga".
Be sure to tune in later for the following episode...
"Pegasos II"
You really don't want to miss it.
It's really a show stopper.
-
What about the STB then, will that be Pegasos2 based now?
-
What about the STB then, will that be Pegasos2 based now?
The STB was never Pegasos 1 or 2 based, but an independent product that happens to use many components from other Genesi products, such as the Cashboy and ComCam, and even components from the Pegasos design, but never the Pegasos itself. The components used are not affected by this decision.
-
Are you trying to be sarcastic, or do you have inside info from IBM? If IBM were so concerned and not satisfied over the quality of MAI's chips, why did the Artica S and Teron CX/PX boards just recieve "Ready for IBM Technology" validation from IBM itself? And why are IBM listing MAI and their products on their website if it is so buggy?
Nobody ever said that the Mai chip was so buggy as to be unusable. By being usable in some manner, even if in a limited fashion, Mai could pass the worst piece of crap imaginable. Mai's chipset passed IBM's minimum requirements, namely 32 address pins and 33Mhz local bus.
-
Nobody ever said that the Mai chip was so buggy as to be unusable. By being usable in some manner, even if in a limited fashion, Mai could pass the worst piece of crap imaginable.
Not said in so few words, but read the crap Senex is spewing on about April2 and April3, the chip is so difficult to mount to the board (maybe they should let the far Eastern company do it for them since it's so hard) I thought they were expert designers, and they complain the chip is too hard to mount to the board????
Mai's chipset passed IBM's minimum requirements, namely 32 address pins and 33Mhz local bus.
So you are saying this is all it takes to get the IBM approval? I'll quote Lisa Su of IBM once again
.... R E A D S L O W L Y...........
"MAI Logic has successfully developed optimized supporting devices and reference designs for PowerPCTM microprocessor application platforms which have passed a rigorous PowerPCTM compatibility validation testing process by IBM Microelectronics labs,"said Lisa Su, Director of PowerPCTM and emerging products, IBM Microelectronics.
Note the part about
"a rigorous PowerPCTM compatibility validation testing process "
That doesn't sound like IBM looked at it and said "Hmm. 32 address pins and 33MHz PCI bus" BOOM! (stamp of approval sound)
It's always easy for people on Genesi's side to trivialize other peoples accomplishments and to raise their own into such high esteem. But then again, I think your posts speak louder than what I'm trying to say. Anyone who looks at this whole fiasco can pretty much sum up what's going on. Genesi should not burn so many bridges, as they may need to cross the river again some day.
-
How? eyetech is not any bigger actor on the PPCmotherboardscene than Genesi
Actually, as far as MAI is concerned, that's not true : Eyetech is their distributor for Europe for the Teron Linux boards, and worldwide for the AmigaOne.
However, knowing Alan, I doubt he bothered to lean on MAI: BB is apparently quite capable of screwing up a business relationship by himself, without outside help.
-
So you don't remember that MAI denied the first bug too? Only after a long period of time they said that they can reproduce it and also only because Mr Carda was in Fremont, CA for two weeks...
I don't recall any denial. I do recall Mr Carda going out there and installing MOS on a Teron so that everyone could find out where the problem was. (That was what gave rise to "MOS runs on A1" from certain quarters afterwards, neatly sidestepping the different-firmware issues, BTW).
For the remaining "bugs" the response has been "We've tried this, but we can't reproduce the alleged bug".
The Pegasos is not a Teron board, it is quite possible that problems might arise that in fact have little or nothing to do with the Articia itself, just as it's possible that problems might exist on the Teron board that wouldn't on the Pegasos. No matter how good the engineers, perfection is well-nigh unattainable. However, when a company - in whose interest it is to have as good a product as possible - spends time looking for supposed bugs, cannot reproduce them (I gather this time Mr Carda didn't bother flying out ?), many people will reasonably wonder if the problem is in fact with the mobo or firmware, rather than inherent in the chip itself.
However, all that aside, I find it frankly hilarious that Genesi are continuing to purchase Articia chips that still contain the old bugs - found back in Nov 2002 - rather than the new, bug-free chips that are currently going out on the new A1 boards.
As for the "real speed" of a G4 CPU, let's see some laboratory-condition benchmarks instead of blithe assertions.
-
Also, as noted in the list, those owners of a Peg I can upgrade to a G4, by trading in their Peg I for a Peg II and paying the $200 for the G4 card (which was the original price anyways).
No they can't, because as of now the Pegasos II does not exist. If ever it does - this is computer land and AFAIK the Peg2 isn't even in betatest (if it were, this would have been trumpeted in the usual way) - it won't be for another 7 months by the most optimistic estimate.
-
>AFAIK the Peg2 isn't even in betatest
Sorry, but the Pegasos2 is 90% complete, in
Betatest and heavily tested by the Genesi
betatesters and only needs chipset integration!
-
Sorry, but the Pegasos2 is 90% complete, in
Betatest and heavily tested by the Genesi
betatesters and only needs chipset integration!
LOL! You people just won't stop will you??? You attack Hyperion when they say that OS 4 is well underway in beta testing, and blast them claiming it cannot be because the 68k JIT is not integrated yet. Then you turn around and claim that the Pegasos II is already heavily tested by Genesi betatesters and only needs chipset integration!!!! Did BB tell you this? The chipset integration is where they had all of the problems with the original Pegasos!!!!
-
Sorry, but the Pegasos2 is 90% complete, in
Betatest and heavily tested by the Genesi
betatesters and only needs chipset integration!
Now aint that strange! that counts
But (Aos4 is 90% complete, in
Betatest and heavily tested by the Hyperion &
betatesters and only needs Module integration!)Dont
-
As for the "real speed" of a G4 CPU, let's see some laboratory-condition benchmarks instead of blithe assertions.
I said earlier I'd be willing to arrange such a test, providing I can find people with boards on both sides willing to lend them for a brief period. Gotten some responces from Pegasos owners, none from AmigaONE owners.
-
Maybe someone would post proof for once instead of making claims like the ones above.
-
>LOL! (...) [Much ranting deleted.]
Sorry I forgot the smiley :-D :-D :-D