Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga.org site announcements => Topic started by: System on February 21, 2003, 02:28:21 AM
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Normally I would never condone such actions as posting an e-mail into a public arena, but I feel that you, as the Amiga community should be aware of the level of stupidity and arrogance now involved in the Harald Frank versus Bernie Meyer war.
Now, while any development for the Amiga is a good thing, Harald Frank is threatening to sue Amiga.org (a free, non-profit service) if we even use the name of his product.
Posted in the Read More is the entire text from Harald Frank concerning the last news story in which Bernie Meyer is considering restarting development on the Umilator project.
It's actions such as these which will keep the Amiga from EVER surfacing as a viable platform again, and I sincerely hope that Amiga Inc will distance themselves from all parties involved for their own good.
------------ Text in its unedited form ------------
Hello,
please remove imediately any use of our product trademark on your website! If Mr. Meyer do such on his own sites and so put one of his feet into jail because of missuisung business trademarks, than its his decission and he has to stand in court for that.
But if you do such, or help in such illegal missuse, it is you who will get really fast some nice paper from my companys lawyer!
we will not tolerate any missuse of our business trademarks trough any kind of faked anoucements like now on your site!
If you are not able to keep your site clean from such abuse and illegal missuse, than as you suggested last time in your answer close down this service.
There will no more warning to you now, two times is enough!
Best regards,
VMC Harald Frank, Developer and Founder of Amithlon
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This is total madness, at first i thought it was a joke but after the mass stalking by Harald against a member on here it does not surprise me one bit,
Example of Haralds stalkings Click here (http://ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1045567305&category=news&start=1&45)
Harald please change your SIG it should read "Bernie Meyer the TRUE Developer and Founder of Amithlon"
Best regards,
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I say run away everybody here.
Makes me glad I never bought the CD from H&P when it was legal to do so.
Explains a lot, however.
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I would normally refrain from using bad language, but what an Asshole.
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No comment.... It all says in my "no comment", because threats is just not helping out a better Amiga future at all.
No comment!...
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I concur with Wayne in this matter entirely. I find that such threats against Amiga.org are childish and uncalled for.
Up until this latest action, I have always strove to find a middle ground in the Bernie / Harold war. Obviously, I cannot take this stand any longer, since Mr. Frank has seen fit to threaten one of the few bonds left that hold this community together.
I implore Mr. Frank to retract his statements and threats to Amiga.org. Such threats are uncalled for and unprofessional, and will likely be counter-productive.
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There are no words in the english language strong enough to express the level of contempt i feel for Harold Frank at this moment.
1) His trademark was NOT mentioned in that post. An entirely different product was!
2) This site is not a business developing competing software.
3) This site is not a business selling competing software.
4) This site is not pirateing anyones software or otherwise contributing to piracy in any way.
5) This site offers news and information and a forum for people to help each other and can not be held responsible for OTHER peoples decisions.
6) This site is an open forum for the public to gather and discuss items of common interest and debate thier merits. Harold Frank's product is open for debate as any product is.
7) Piss off and go threaten someone else. I'm posting a link in my personal web pages on Umilator and i don't give a flying {bleep} if anyone {bleep} {bleep} well likes it or not. I invite the ENTIRE WORLD to come and read it and add links to the site in thier own home pages as well so everybody is informed it exists. And i don't even want the damned thing!
I'm sick as hell of this crap and it's about time it stopped. H&P's problems are with Bernie and his product NOT US or Amiga.org. There is no reason in the world we can't speak or talk of 'the evil application of satan' when we choose. If Harold Frank dosen't like us talking about any software in the world that HIS problem and he needs to take it up with the authors AND NOT US!
Ivan
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hehe, i like the "best regards" closing text....
Good bye Mr Frank, i can see this will be the last straw for many people, so off you go, back to mommy, go on, seeya later.
I hereby dub the: "toss-master"
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WOW!
I would call him a slack-jawed, anencephalic dunderhead, but that insult might be trademarked.
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Some people are just ####ed in the head!!!
Anyway, I think it's obvious where I stand. Wayne, any plans, possible course of action? Does this guy have a legal leg to stand on? I never knew people were not allowed to discuss trademarked products. That means MS could sue Amiga.org to stop us from talking about MS products? That seems pretty silly to me. Doesn't the freedom of speeh and expression protect us in this case? Please someone tell me I'm right!!!
Btw, what does Herald Frank do these days, other then demonstrating his unique ability at making new friends that is... ;-)
- Mike
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This is totally out of hand. I wish Bernie could
take his code and start over with a new name
for the project. I feel bad for him that he signed
contracts with these complete jerks :-x
Amithlon is the best thing I bought in years
for my computer. I hate that my money probably
went to the wrong people.
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Cor, what a wanker.......
I notice the news post is still up.... nice one Wayne!
I hear he's a paedophile anyway.... go on sue me ya bastard!
Best Regards
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Ok i got the message.
Best regards,
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>Some people are just ####ed in the head!!!
Agreed. :)
>Anyway, I think it's obvious where I stand. Wayne, any plans, possible course of action? Does this guy have a legal leg to stand on?
No he dosen't. It's a move to intimidate because that's all he can do in this situation to keep some sort of grip on the market. Which by the way he has no rights to anymore since his contract with Bernie is now defucnt. H&P broke thier contract when Bernie invoked a clause to halt sales. H&P to this day continue to sell and thus have broken the contract. It is no longer a basis for any action and if anythiing Bernie has the right to sue H&P for continueing to pirate his work. And i hope to god he does. :)
The only reason HF did this was to end discussions about the competition by threatening Wayne. HF can probably take him to court and loose but only after making Wayne's life a miserable living hell in the process.
>I never knew people were not allowed to discuss trademarked products. That means MS could sue Amiga.org to stop us from talking about MS products? That seems pretty silly to me. Doesn't the freedom of speeh and expression protect us in this case? Please someone tell me I'm write!!!
Freedom of speach has nothing to do with it. He has to prove that Amiga.org is causeing his business damage by ALLOWING people to post on his own PRIVATE site. I don't think that is possible in any country under any legal system except communism and dictatorships. The only LAW here is Wayne as it's HIS personal site and subject to his own rules and not the wishes of anyone in the world including me, Harold or you. Get used to it. If H&P believe they are being misrepresented then i'm sure Wayne will ALLOW them to post a rebuttle but only at Wayne's discretion and nobody elses. :)
>Btw, what does Herald Frank do these days, other then demonstrating his unique ability at making new friends that is...
Who cares? :)
Ivan
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@Mrglitter
heheh I didn't think theyd let you post that
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...lets grab at some limelight i see here.. threaten to sue amiga.org? thats quite at the heart of the Amiga community there Harald, wrong move and attention grabing childish at that
you know it we know it, well done on alienating yourself fully from anything Amiga. :smack:
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Well I think Harald Frank is a faggot and I dont care who knows it. This has got to be the most spectacular display of patheticness ever.
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> This is totally out of hand. I wish Bernie could
> take his code and start over with a new name
> for the project.
Your wish has been granted already. Umilator contains NO code by Harald Frank, and is a completely different product.
Funny that we're not allowed to speak the other products name, considering we're paying customers. Silliest thing I've ever heard.
> I feel bad for him that he signed
> contracts with these complete jerks
Yep, luckily Bernd was able to terminate the distribution, as everyone here is witness to, weather Harald and H&P recognises it or not. It's archived on Usenet, on webarchive.org etc, and we all saw it happen.
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> I concur with Wayne in this matter entirely. I find
> that such threats against Amiga.org are childish
> and uncalled for.
I want to be offended by the threat, but I just can't get over how STUPID the complaint is, it's hilarious! There isn't a lawyer in the world that wouldn't have his milk spraying out of his nose when Harald explains this complaint to him. Even an American lawyer :roflmao:
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VMC Harald Frank has solidified his true colors (i.e. spewing lame threats).
Such excessive actions will further alienate your potential customers.
PS; I do operate under a PTY LTD entity (i.e. separate legal entity with limited liabilities).
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Ok.. That does IT..
This is an official offer..
Bernie, Scratch me down for 1 copy of UMILATOR.
If you say your gonna go ahead with the project.......
I'll even PRE-PAY !!
Someone think of a witty slogan for a UMILATOR T-Shirt !! :-o
:-D
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Legal action against reporting news?
Amiga emulators: UAE, AIBB, Amiga Forever (tm), Amithlon (tm) and possibly another Amiga (tm) emulator. Which one if any do you run?
A friend of mine bought a licensed copy of Amithlon. He used it for a little while, then dumped it for Amiga Forever. I bought a copy of Amiga Forever myself which I run under MS Windows XP (tm).
I run UAE on my Mac (JIT version) using OS X (10.2.4).
I don't need Amithlon...it's cool, but well, I'd rather spend my money on an AmigaONE G4 system. I want AmigaOS 4.
:-P
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>I run UAE on my Mac (JIT version) using OS X (10.2.4).
JIT version of UAE on the Mac? Did I miss something?
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Way to go Mr. Asshole. Way to REALLY KILL AMIGA. Nobody needs this kind of stupid ####. Amiga is...
ALREADY DEAD HERE IN THE US.
If there is any chance of the Amiga as bigtime platform this stuff has just got to stop.
A full, formal, and serious apology might convice me to buy a product associated with the gent.
As things stand, I will never buy ANYTHING from or associated with Harold Frank.
Way to go. :-x
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I think he should have filtered this through is lawyers spelling/grammar checker. What is his trademark? Shouldn't he be issuing such warnings through his lawyers anyway? It's a hard read.
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/me shakes his head in disbelief
How long must this s**t continue? :-|
I wonder, if all the the complete arseholes left the Amiga business right now, how many companies would even be left?
Yes, I know there are people with integrity left in this community (and kudos to them) but all I see everyday is s**t like this ... :-|
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In beauty pagents the girl who wins is always winding up crying for some reason. The reason is because of how extreme the emotions are for that person. This message of "Cease and Decist" is so sad, I'm laughing my arse off as we speak.
Here's my offer to Harald Frank. Two dollars and a six pack of Guinness for the source code and licensing for your product called Amithlon. I want to donate whatever contributions were made to the Umilator sources so that product can continue in peace.
Here's a round for everyone involved... sit down and belly up to bar for once... everyone is a human being.
:pint:
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This is monstrous. Unless he is stopped, probably by judicial authority, Harald Frank is going to continue threatening and abusing Amithlon users, Bernie's friends and supporters and potential Umilator partners.
Legal action is prohibitively expensive, but there may come a time when his behavior cannot be ignored.
I wonder if his past harassing actions amount to criminal violations in Germany, or what business oversight organizations (government or otherwise) could be effectively complained to.
I feel like I've met a small child sick with cancer, who turns out to be so obnoxious that I no longer want to offer comfort, but hope everyday to hear that it has died. If you've followed this thing over the past year, you'll probably agree that it's THAT bad.
Gack!?!
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If Harold Franks does not stop using the name of my Canadian HotDog vending company on this site or any others I will be forced to take legal action. And this will stop him from using HotDogs ever in his lfe. I am just sick of the nerve of this guy I paid good bucks for the name Harold Franks.
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This looks like it : http://www.vmc.de/ (http://www.vmc.de/)
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I'm confused. Is Harald complaining about the Umilator poll news item? Is he claiming that "Umilator" is a word owned by him?
In any case, I don't think there is any legal action he could take. If I knew what the deal was, I'd have made a post with a 1000 statements of that word (or words or whatever) because there's nothing Harald could do. Wayne might have some say, though. :-)
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You know....I would love to meet some of the Amigaland-villageidiots who populate the internet IRL. Just to see how they really are.
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walter said:
Unless he is stopped, probably by judicial authority, Harald Frank is going to continue threatening and abusing Amithlon users, Bernie's friends and supporters and potential Umilator partners.
If there were enough of us and a way to prove damages, I'd say start a class action lawsuit against HF. Sadly, such an action would create more problems than it would solve in our small market. Not to mention, any damages that could be recovered from the deliquent parties probably isn't worthy of small claims court.
Incendentally, what is the legal status of copies of Amithlon (gonna sue me, Mr Frank?) sold to consumers before Mr. Meyer declared breach? Are those copies concidered legal or illegal?
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Since the Amithlon blow up, I simply thought Mr Frank was an asshole, clear down to the bone. With his latest threat, i'm changing my mind about Mr. Frank. It's becoming clear, atleast to me, that he has serious mental and or emotional stability problems. In other words, he's a few french fries short of a Happy Meal.
Please, show him pity and not anger. He is in dire need of professional help and this should be considered when replying to him. He can't help it if he's mentally ill afterall.
Dammy
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Holy freakin' cow... is this guy for real? I thought I've seen much but this stuff..
/rant mode on
To Mr. ####-for-brains, who sent the original post to Wayne, GET REAL! And while you are at it, get a life too, if you don't have anything better to do than make trouble with potential buyers, instead of developing something (which ain't yours from the beginning) good.
/rant mode off
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> Incendentally, what is the legal status of copies of Amithlon (gonna
> sue me, Mr Frank?) sold to consumers before Mr. Meyer declared breach?
> Are those copies concidered legal or illegal?
There are several issues here. First of all, any copies shipped by H&P before I instructed them (in accordance with the distribution contract) to cease distribution *do* come with proper licenses to *my* work. Any copies shipped by H&P after that date do not, as far as I am concerned, come with such licenses (and just in case someone wonders --- I have also never accepted a single cent from such copies).
The second issue is that of Amiga Inc IP. As far as anyone can tell, H&P never had a license for the distribution of Kickstart images, and whether their distribution of OS 3.9 as part of AmigaOS XL was legitimate is at least dubious. So it seems pretty clear customers did not receive a license for at least the Kickstart ROM, as H&P never was in a position to sell such licenses.
That being said, both Amiga Inc and I take the view that anyone who bought AmigaOS XL in good faith (i.e. without being aware of the issues) has shown a desire to do the right thing, and to support everyone involved. Given how common and easy piracy is, nobody has any interest in punishing such customers for doing the right thing, and thus both Amiga Inc and me are happy for such customers to continue the use of our respective IP, and hope they are enjoying it.
Of course, if you are in doubt as to exactly what you did or didn't get as part of your AmigaOS XL purchase, I would encourage you to pose that question to your dealer, or directly to H&P.
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*sigh*
People just take themselves too seriously théese days. What's next? sueing the WinUAE team? :roll:
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> Here's my offer to Harald Frank. Two dollars and a
> six pack of Guinness for the source code and ...
That's a generous offer, but the only source that appears in Umilator that's related to A*ith**n are already licensed under the GPL and are freely available to Bernd for use in Umilator. Harald would be off his nut to claim the Linux Kernel or the GPL modifications to it belong to him. I believe there's a certain longhair (http://www.bluejack.com/record/02/04/stallman.jpg) that would have something to say about that claim.
> licensing for your product called Amithlon.
The only parts I can think of that would need to be licensed are A) Haralds code, and B) the trademark. The code has been disposed of and is no longer needed, so scratch A, and the trademark is disputable, but the trademark is not being used anyway, so that's moot as well.
> I want to donate whatever contributions were
> made to the Umilator sources
ie: none. None of Haralds code was used. Harald, AFAIK claims the "concept" of his code belongs to him. This is mooted as well, as Bernd, from the looks of the feature lists has not only rewritten the parts he needed, but implemented them in a different way, for example, the networking being handled by the linux kernel, the way the parallel ports are now implemented is also completely different. His so called "concept", as loose a case as it is, wasn't even used.
That leaves no technical or legal reason for Harald to cite, so he resorts to his last desparate tactic...
> so that product can continue in peace.
...Peace. Harald is going to publicaly and privately harass everyone who has anything to do with Umilator, a product he has no claims to, none at all. We've all seen the public displays, and most have heard rumors about the private displays.
It's harmless. The dog has no teeth. The dog has no legs to stand on. All it can do is bark and slober (http://ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1045797793&category=unmoderated&start=1&9).
I'm estatic that this project is finally moving forward, it (and Bernd) deserves to succeed.
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Give em hell Bernie! :) Glad to see you still alive and kicking.
Is there a copy of your contract(s) with H&P around somewhere? I'd like a look if possible. :) Anyway, i'd say as soon as they stopped paying you and kept selling after you invoked that clause that they were in breach. And that's good enough for any court.
As for Aorg, H&P don't have a leg to stand on. (thanks for the laugh though Harold. is your lawyer on vacation and you thought you'd do a little legal work on your own behalf?)
Ivan
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>The only parts I can think of that would need to be licensed are A) Haralds code, and B) the trademark.
Are you kidding, what trademark? :) H&P never registered a trademark for Amithilon so, they don't own it. :P
This is just as bad as that moron over at CUAUG claiming that he owns all links to anything Amiga related.
Ivan
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Do any of you know Darek Mihocka? He is the developer of a piece of crapware called SoftMac XP. It is a classic Macintosh emulator (68K only) that runs under Windows. The guy has the mind of a child and is by far one of the most inane and frustrating people in the world to talk to. There is a somewhat shameful, on my part due to my continuation of replies, account of our email correspondence. He has been bragging to offer PPC emulation on an x86 system for sometime. If you are interested in reading it you can find it here (http://www.nyteschayde.com/downloads/Darek.doc).
To make a long story short he reminds me quite a bit of Harald Frank. They should become friends. :)
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> >The only parts I can think of that would need to
> > be licensed are A) Haralds code, and B) the
> > trademark.
> Are you kidding, what trademark? :) H&P never
> registered a trademark for Amithilon so, they don't
> own it. :P
like I said, it's disputable :P Although, the name isn't used anyway... Even giving HF every concievable benefit of the doubt, he still has no case.
What I'd like to know, is **WHAT** SPECIFICALLY in Umilator does Harald now claim is his? As best I understand it, there's nothing left! Not even the "concept" part was reused.
It's just so damn funny, I should be pissed for the crap HF has caused, and the delays, the disruptive mailinglist posts, etc, but it's just so damned ridiculous I cant help laughing at it all.
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Heh, this is just hilarious!!!!
I sincerely hope someone will give this twit some payback. Me? I'm going to load up Kazaa-Lite, and start 'helping the community' :python:
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Well, Wayne, just as people get older, build up relationsships, get married, raise children etc, I guess it's at least once in a life time, that they get theatened by HF in a completely insane way. I reckon the best thing is to say, "Ah, another pointless attempt to get me annoyed and to steal some time of my life span, so why don't I just ignore it, be happy that I'm not that low and feel sorry for such people (but not too long)." (And I definately agree with Dammy).
The real pity about HF is, that he hasn't been able to leave the Amiga to make a living elsewhere. And the Amiga market is definately not a place to earn money for a living, and so things start getting desperate.
Let him claim whatever he wants, let him threaten you, I'm not aware he has ever sued somebody. He's only shooting himself in his foot all the time.
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Hi,
What exactly can we not do anymore according mr Frank? Not talk about Amithlon?
Anyway, call me stupid but does he not realise that the people that "would" buy his stuff are the people here who are now on the edge of freaking out?
Coder
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He doesn't have a leg to stand on. :-o
byte lHF
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:-D
"Told you so."
Welcome to the club for those repeatedly and unreasonably threatened by Mr. Frank. It's not very exclusive I'm afraid... ;-)
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What a complete arse. :-(
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Coder scribbled:
What exactly can we not do anymore according mr Frank? Not talk about Amithlon?
Probably. If he's going to sue us for that, then, well...
amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon amithlon
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
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So he wants to start censoring the news on the community's biggest site? Whats that meant to do? All this has done is convinced hundreds of people not to have anything to do with H&P.
Wayne and Bernie, you both have my support (and everyone else's, looking at this!)
Since my site is a lot smaller than Amiga.org, I've decided to "comply". Needless to say, I've explained why Mr Frank wants me to alter the spelling of ^mithl*n :-D
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BTW Wayne, I notice Harald demanded:
please remove imediately any use of our product trademark on your website!
There is a user of this site who uses this disputed trademark as his handle. Please comply with Mr. Frank's request and remove him immediately.
:-P
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Bernie, Scratch me down for 1 copy of UMILATOR.
Same here. In fact, I'd even be prepared to become a distributor.
:-D
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Great news , kill amithlon for the second time please, then when we are done at that lets kill Haage and p. also , then we can finally focus on the future of AMIGA! ..
amigaos has nothing to do on a lame x86 setups....
everyone saw what it did last time, hopefully some learned.
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@Bill H.
*Laugh* Brilliant :)
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@Wayne: a free piece of legal advice as I consider Harald Frank to be one of my "special friends": tell him to go stuff himself.
To the best of knowledge, "Amithlon" is not registered as a trademark in any European country (to the extent that this woudl even be relevant).
Moreover, your server is located in the States and geared towards an international, English speaking audience.
No German court can assert jurisdiction over it, he would need to sue you on the basis of an American trademark in an American court.
That ain't going to happen.
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As much as I agree with you lempkee in my dislike and distrust of emulators, I'd rather see Amitlon/Umilator eliminated by lack of interest rather than some seedy legal process - especially if Wayne gets dragged into it. Why make Amithlon a martyr when it should have been rejected as a path destructive to the Amiga?
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bhoggett;
That would be difficult and time consuming as the site has a few thousand users. Going through all those user accounts could take years.... :)
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I have to admit, this is one of best ways to market. Even I'm now interested of purchasing one copy for this PC ... I hope it'll work with Nvidia-Nforce?
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I could eventually understand if mr Frank were sueing
Bernie, if his allegations on the "ownership" of Amithlon
were true (I will not assume they are not true, unlike most
here - albeit I have a lot of faith in Bernie, it's always
dangerous to only listen to one side of the story).
But to attack amiga.org for displaying the post in question?
Now that's way off. More, that's pityful. Tremendeously sad,
not ot mention that it's your eventual future customers that
you are messing with (when you mess with our pal Wayne,
you mess with us, man!). Not wise. Not wise at all.
@Ben Hermans:
:-D That's the spirit.
.
SlimJim
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This is not only an attack against Bernie.
This is an attack against the Amiga community, and an attack against AmigaOne/OS4.
When we decided to stop buying H&P's products, it must have worked on a grand scale.
I am so happy about the people who realized this long ago and stopped buying thier products.
I only hope that the people that are still buying thier products will stop supporting H&P.
This is not a legal issue, this is a community effort.
Because we do not believe that it is in our best interest to continue to support a company that has tried it's very best to destroy Amiga.
Wal-Mart can't sue a customer because he chooses not to be a customer any longer.
Neither can H&P.
Stop buying thier products if you don't like the way they do buisness.
And everybody buy Bernie's product when he releases it.
Enough said.
Goodbye forever Haage and Partner! :-o
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There was once a old man called Harald Frank
Who used to go to amiga wars in a battle tank
He shot his load
All over the road
Turned out he actually had a w**k
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And by the way...
Buy the crap out of OS4 and AmigaOne.
Buy the crap out of all AmigaOne and OS4 related products.
Empty your pockets and drain your resources for the new Amiga Products coming out by Hyperion and Eyetech.
It's time to put an end to this axis of evil.
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@Argo
That would be difficult and time consuming as the site has a few thousand users. Going through all those user accounts could take years.... :)
Alternatively you could use the "New Members" link in the left hand "Site Updates" section to find him in less than 30 seconds. There's only one...
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Found him - his homepage is http://www.vmc.de - this doesn't mean anything, does it? :-)
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This Harald Frank guy is a complete arse. He really needs to get a freekin' life!! :-x
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It sounds like Harald Frank needs to get laid. Anyone want to start up a PayPal fund to pay for a weekend in Amsterdam for Harald to lose his cherry? He could have a smoke while he's there too, might chill him out a bit!!
Maybe he should dabble in a little of my handle? Points 4 and seven below seem approriate for Harald.
MDMA Effects from http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_effects.shtml
POSITIVE
extreme mood lift
increased willingness to communicate
increase in energy (stimulation)
/* ego softening */
feelings of comfort, belonging, and closeness to others
feelings of love and empathy
/* forgiveness */
increased awareness & appreciation of music
increased awareness of senses. (eating, drinking, smell)
profound life-changing spiritual experiences
neurotically based fear dissolution
sensations bright and intense
urge to hug and kiss people
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I prefer a real machine anyway. amiga forever 5 is still available.I hope harold frank learns to get a life. :-?
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Hehe this guy almost single handedly killed his own product by going off the handle for no reason.
The guy should take either a chillpill or something stronger. A weirdo of the highest order.
He has absolutely no idea what hes on about. If you were a lawyer, surely if that guy came to you and
explained what the problem was, you`d look at him thinking "is this guy serious?".
If this case could go to court, that would make magazines/ newspapers liable for everything they
mention. Micromart would have Hewlett Packard, Sony and even Amiga, court cases each week. I think
he got out of the wrong side of the bed before reading Amiga.org.
I know we want as many users as possible, but in his case its quality, not quantity. Either you go
away without bothering us again or you calm down and shutup. Act like a proper Amiga user, not one
on drugs. The guy needs to go in rehab.
Coca Cola
Citroen Picasso
Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
Sony Playstation 2
Ford Galaxy
Fiat Uno
Amiga OS4
Stupid trademarks, they some how make their way into conversations so easily. I won`t be on
Amiga.org for a while. I`ve got some pressing appointments for the next few weeks :-D
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Isnt there some sort of fair use clause on these things anyway?
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This Harald Frank sounds like a total wanker, the twat can't even spell !
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To truly show how far out HF is, one need only
at the diversity of the people that are making
one generalized opinion.
Finally unaminity in the Amiga community.
Tom
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@Wayne
This tiger has no teeth. I'm with Mr Hermans, HF is just blowing hot air.
[color=FF0000]Warning! The following statements are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Amiga.org.[/color]
HF you are a complete a$$hole, a liar and a thief! Your contributions to Amithlon was a joke, and you are mentally unstable. Please, please get professional help. I don't know if you are an alcoholic or a crack addict, but whatever substance is causing your delusions is going to end up killing you.
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My only comment is
Petunia Project!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Wow !!! You can allways bet on Dirty Harry to shoot himself
in the foot (like he did when he signed with H&P).......
Personally I fear none of the two kiddies made a good picture off
themselves in this mess, and none will be able to actually
release a succesor to CENSORED .
@KennyR/Lempkee
People who bought AmigaOS-XL (and that weren't few) did invest
money in the possibility to run AOS-SW at high speed, and most of
those I know restarted buying AOS-SW after they felt it as a waste
of money with their slow 68k-HW for years.
Only a minority of those will even consider buying a very
expensive piece of HW to run the same SW at the same or even
lower speed.
So yes emulation is a market for SW, just not for game-ports,
and since the official OS-update is done by a game-porting
company ......
@erol
Häh ??????? WTF are you talking about ?
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Poster: redrumloa Date: 2003/2/21 9:04:17
Please, please get professional help. I don't know if you are an alcoholic or a crack addict, but whatever substance is causing your delusions is going to end up killing you.
That's probably close to the money right there. The man has some type of emotional and or mental illness. I've been wondering with these outburst of his, is it caused by him missing out on his medication (for whatever reason)?
Dammy
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Wayne:
Buck up. I know it's all well and good for us to read Mr. Franks drivel and laugh, but I also know that any threat, especially along side of the hundreds you've already gotten over this site, is another boulder on your mountain of stress.
Anything we can do to help, please let us know. We all love this site and, as thos story proves, need it now more than ever.
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Kronos, I do agree with you: Amithlon brought an extra buzz to the Amiga which, by incompetence or bad luck, hadn't seen new hardware for years. Obviously people liked it - a lot. But like it or not, x86 was rejected by the "Amiga companies" (namely AInc and bPlan). Now, for good or bad, the Amiga future (or lack thereof) is PPC. Anything else is now just retro-computing emulation. This isn't going to change any time soon.
Amiga commerce may be stone dead but I don't see it being revived on OS3.9, lightning fast or not.
In summary, for those who want keep the old Amiga days on modern hardware, Amithlon/Umilator/OSXL is great. For those who want to see the Amiga even become a shadow of the success it once was, Amithlon is a nightmare.
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N> walter said:
WM>> Unless he is stopped, probably by judicial authority, Harald Frank is going
WM>> to continue threatening and abusing...
N> If there were enough of us and a way to prove damages, I'd say start a class
N> action lawsuit against HF. Sadly, such an action would create more problems
N> than it would solve in our small market.
The market's so tough, I can't see how ANY form of legal action could make it
worse. Action on Amithlon/Umilator should not hinder OS4, MOS or Amiga Inc.
I suppose some participants would have to take time to be deposed. Can you
suggest specific harm that would come from such action?
Other than flames from all the ardent supporters of Mr. Frank :-) :-) :-)
N> Not to mention, any damages that could be recovered from the deliquent parties
N> probably isn't worthy of small claims court.
Yes. The payoff cannot possibly be money to the plaintiffs. The goal is removing
a malevolent and obstructive force from the emulator market.
I'm not sure that actually FILING a class action suit is the best path, but if a credible
threat could be mounted, it might exert pressure on HF. Talking to German
regulatory agencies or industry associations might be a good start. I admit that
my comments are all vapor without a German agent (I live in the U.S.), a fund to
support the initial research and a commitment from Bernie and other harassment
targets to provide information when the time comes.
Finally, although I am not keen on Haage & Partner, I don't think they should
be targeted unless they actively try to obstruct Umilator's release.
----
Walter
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@KennyR
1. AInc didn't reject x86, that was Hyperion.
2. What is the major difference between 3.9 and 4. (when done)
from a users or developers POV ?
a) differnt CPU ..... who gives a f****
b) no ExecSG ..... one can easily live without
c) add-ons ..... IBrowse is 68k, and RoadShow will also be sold
separatly.
d) the version number .... uuuuu you got me here :-P
Why do you think was it that H&P did BB2 ? What do you think were
Bernies plans for CENCORED ?
So AmigaOS on x86 would ge further than 3.9, just by another
was than OS4-PPC.
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Same here. In fact, I'd even be prepared to become a distributor.
There's always a spot on pegasos-usa.com for Umilator if Bernie decides to proceed.
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When we decided to stop buying H&P's products, it must have worked on a grand scale. I am so happy about the people who realized this long ago and stopped buying thier products.
I only hope that the people that are still buying thier products will stop supporting H&P.
Stop buying OS3.5 and OS3.9 then.
*Shakes head in disbelief*
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@Dammy
That's probably close to the money right there. The man has some type of emotional and or mental illness. I've been wondering with these outburst of his, is it caused by him missing out on his medication (for whatever reason)?
You should have seen Harold talking to bbrv last night on IRC. The man nearly went into orbit when Bill asked about Bernie.
This community is filled with sychophants, cheats and liars. Makes me feel like I'm in politics all of a sudden.
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@Downix
Have you seen todays topic in #morphos ?
:roll: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roll:
edit:
stupid question, as you are online there :-D
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Do any of you know Darek Mihocka?
oh lawd! I cannot believe you brought up that name....
yes I know Darek, biggest @!#$@# ever....
I don't want to overplay matters (everyones says: no not you!)...but if Harald is as bad as Darek, than this is bad news indeed, for it implies fundamental issues with the very fabric of existence...for I cannot imagine even an infinite hell that would be big enough to house both of them.
:-D
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Also, on Wayne's behalf, PLEASE don't say anything on this site that might give this guy REAL ammo for a lawsuit! It's one thing to state an opinion of his actions, quite another to imply that he might be involved in unproven illegal activities (illegal substance abuse) or might be mentally ill. This is for Wayne's sake, not H.F.'s Never give a loony a loaded gun.
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It's a sad day when you don't know you've lost the battle......
Harald, give it up, you've got no legal leg left to stand on.
ps. i don't think you company ever had a lawyer, it's just you blowing hot air at people.
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If that email to Wayne was on a sheet of paper, I'd wipe my arse on it and shove it down Harold's throat.
He's got no leg too stand on, can't use his brain, and single handedly lost a lot of possible future customers with his actions.
I hope Umilator buries Amithlon.
In the wise words of Bart Simpson:
Harold, get bent.
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If that email to Wayne was on a sheet of paper, I'd wipe my arse on it and shove it down Harold's throat.
No one's stopping you from printing it out :-D
Do you really think that he expected that he could threaten Wayne in private and get the word Amithl0n banned from this site? It's hard to believe he could be that naive - if so, it's really backfired (remember that there are 5000 members and many times more guests here - all reading this!)
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Call his bluff. The most a lawyer could realistically do here is send a cease & desist letter. I'll bet it wouldn't even get that far, because any lawyer (almost anyone except Mr Frank, apparently) would only be able to advise him he hasn't got a legal leg to stand on.
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The only reason HF did this was to end discussions about the competition by threatening Wayne. HF can probably take him to court and loose but only after making Wayne's life a miserable living hell in the process.
If that should happen, e.g. Wayne is sued by HF (don't want to write this name fully) I am happy to contribute to a fund to pay the legal costs. For Wayne of course.
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Poster: downix Date: 2003/2/21 11:16:35
You should have seen Harold talking to bbrv last night on IRC. The man nearly went into orbit when Bill asked about Bernie.
Which network and #channel?
Dammy
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>Poster: Paul_Gadd Date: 2003/2/21 22:28:20
>
>There was once a old man called Harald Frank
>Who used to go to amiga wars in a battle tank
>He shot his load
>All over the road
>Turned out he actually had a w**k
Summed up in 1 poem. haha :roflmao:
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If anybody is still thinking of purchasing his products after this then your no better than him
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It's sad... Amithlon is dead an Umilulator is the last hope if somehow it came come out...and this guy sending hate-mail with idle threats... aye yai yai...
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I find this action against Amiga.org completely ridiculous.
However, there is one thing i have never understood about the whole Amithlon business. So please somebody enlighten me (i don't follow the story to closely).
Here goes:
Harald Frank starts Amithlon together with Bernd Meyer. Rumours tell me that the contribution from Harald were small. Yet, for some reason that i don't understand, Bernd doesn't seem to be able to replace the (small?) code from Harald, give it a new name and sell the product. So what is exactly the problem? I mean, everybody is free to make an Amiga emulator, right? So why hasn't Bernd been able to write his own emulator and sell it. I mean, if it is 100% your own code, why can't it be sold? Is it because of the P96 team being threatend? And if yes, can't Bernd write another system for that?
Somehow i don't understand this. I don't want to stir things up, i find it a fair question.
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@Paul_Gadd:
Turned out he actually had a w**k
:roflmao:
Priceless.
I've never really taken sides in this dispute; two sides to every story, blah, blah.....
But now it's clear:
Turns out he actually *is* a w*nk. :-P
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@Mips_Proc
OOO you said the U word. I`m telling my Mum on you :-D
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@Marky & Wayne:
Buck up. I know it's all well and good for us to read Mr. Franks drivel and laugh, but I also know that any threat, especially along side of the hundreds you've already gotten over this site, is another boulder on your mountain of stress.
Well said & I totally agree. Let us know if we can help.
Robert
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@z5
Yes, all parts written by Voldemort have been replaced. Every last byte.
The problem with the threats is not that it prevents others from contributing in legal terms - the various license issues have been resolved AFAIK - but that it puts them through the hassle of having to endure a barrage of abuse and hate mail from the individual we all know and love (not!) . What would you do if everyone who works with you in any way, is associated with you in any way, offers to contribute something or other, carries your advertisements etc., etc., if everyone is subjected to this level of abuse? What prospects of co-operation will you have in the long term with this sort of millstone around your neck?
Essentially there you have the entire difficulty. I believe the other issues are solvable or have been solved already, but this one is the biggie.
Just as an illustration, read the Feb 7th comment from Bernie here (http://www.umilator.net/blog/archives/000017.shtml).
See? This is the sort of thing you might be lining yourself up for. It must be tempting to cut your losses and get out.
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Can I join the lynch mob?
I can just see him lose all of his business and his post (big boss of company).
Applying for new job...
Interviewer: It says on your resume, you were the owner of a company, so how did you lose your last job?
Mr. F.: I sold a product, didn't pay the author, ..etc... then insulted and threatened anyone, even romotely, in the least bit, considering to buy that product, in public. Oh, and most of what I sold would only have been purchased by the same crowd of folks.
Interviewer: Where can place you? Well, P. R. is out...
Amiga! "People are strange...", Jim Morrison.
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"People are strange...", Jim Morrison.
Yeah, faces look ugly, when you're alone... ;-)
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Just helps to show how much better of a person Bernie Meyer is. I am glad he is bringing his babby back. I will buy it as soon as it hits the market. Especially if Bernie gets the fruit of his labor. GO Bernie GO show us what you can do. We already know you ARE the creator of this great stuff. Maybe it will help shut up this other wanna be.
As for this jokers threats PLEASE GET A LIFE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Spiffy :-D
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Bernie Meyer should be appreciated in the Amiga community but NO he has to be treated like dirt by the copyright king.
Meyer made a superb product which i use daily and happy with it and i hope he releases the new Umilator but the way he keeps getting treated i doubt he would want this crap anymore as it is going way over the top and showing new (soon to be) Amiga users what kind of petty low life scum is out there ready to sabotage projects and cause problems every step of the way.
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I've seen small children behave better than that!
Mind you, I was in need of some comic relief. Your latest outburst has me grinning from ear to ear.
Harald, just a suggestion, but I think you might earn more money if you joined the entertainment industry. All you need is a brightly coloured, spotted outfit, some grease paint, a red nose and a big wig and you will then look as you act.
As for me, I'm going off to buy a copy of Umilator......
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whats funny is how utterly distorted his typeing is... I know my grammer isnt so good but I think I get my point accross decently.
He's obviousely either very poorly schooled in the english language or is in need of a doctor possibly.
sad really... maybe even PATHETIC!.
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Okay. Time to own up peoples....
Who let Harald have the red cordial this time???
Cache Ya,
Craig.
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I don't know what passes for law in Harold's neck of the woods, but here, he doesn't have a frickin' leg to stand on. While I cetainly can't use the trademarked name "Amithlon", assuming he actually is the legit owner of such a registered trademark, as the name for a competing product. I actually could register it for an entirely non-conflicting product; for example, if I wanted to introduce a dog food or a little blue pill called Amithlon, I'm good to go,
Then there's fair use that extends to the product (or assumed product) name. An editorial comment such as this, for example, is fully covered in the USA under the First Amendment, and all subsequent copyright laws. This is precisely why Microsoft, of late, has done an end run around the consitution by including a clause in their licensing agreement that forbids public discussion, review, etc. of their product. That doesn't make it a trademark infringement, it makes it a license infringement. If I don't license the product, I can talk about it, as long as I'm not libeling them, of course.
Then there's satire. If I decided to make a nasty, saterical web site about Amithlon, little Harold, or H&P, or anything else I like, that is fully protected and fully within my right, as long as the satrical nature of the web site is clear. This is of course why all of those sites mocking Windows, stand, today.
He's blowing hot air, plain and simple. Now, he's also free to do that, just as we are. However, I don't take kindly to assholes like him blowing hot up my ass. You shouldn't either. This guy needs to be shut down. Yet another loser trying to kill of the last few embers of Amiga interest on the planet.
You pal,
-Dave
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> It sounds like Harald Frank needs to get laid. Anyone want to start up a PayPal fund to pay for a weekend in Amsterdam for Harald to lose his cherry? He could have a smoke while he's there too, might chill him out a bit!!
"kittys and Blunts for Harald Frank"; sell the T-shirt, proceeds benefit Bernie, it would do him some good, but he's gonna have to pay for his own.
Your pal,
-Dave
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This is just silly. It's not even the same name.
I wonder...
If someone of us who knows what's going on but isn't overly emotionally involved would write a document—not a petition, more like a declaration of independence—that people could sign their names to expressing their displeasure with all the frivolous legal posturing that's going on, and lots of people signed it very quickly, and it got sent off to all the instigators involved would it strike a chord with them and convince them to back off?
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Actually, we should all thank Herald for this little outburst as it has helped us all see a little more clearly why Umilator had been originally scrapped and to witness the abusive nature Bernie has talked about in the past. It's all very enlightening and I can now sympathize with anyone else who's felt the blunt end of Herald's harassment.
We should also thank him for bringing the community together even if it is at his own expense. It's great to read a nice long thread like this and find that everyone agrees, not one person has actually defended poor old Herald. Now that's a community coming together! But now it seems Herald's usefulness is over and we certainly don't need him anymore, so bye-bye Herald and thanks for all the laughs! Now get lost!
- Mike
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Essentially there you have the entire difficulty. I believe the other issues are solvable or have been solved already, but this one is the biggie.
Thanks for replying. However, i don't think this is all to it. I don't see why one person can hold back a product he has nothing to do with anymore. This is not possible.
I don't see any reason for Bernd not to have released Umilator. If it is his, then he can. It is so simple in my eyes. Why does he feel threatened if there is nothing to be afraid of. He knows that there is interest for his product.
Nah, i still don't get it...i think there is more to this story than has been told.
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Just a reminder...
It's great to see the fabulous support for Bernie in these postings. However, it is really important for the future of Umilator that everyone's support is counted. This is achieved by voting in the Umilator Poll. (http://maug.org.au/umilator.html)
If this is the first you've heard of it, let me know, because it means we aren't spreading the word adequately.
The poll is less objectionable now, and private details are optional. If you haven't voted, DO IT NOW.
[color=FF3300]Remember: Insufficient vote numbers = no Umilator[/color][/i][/u] :-(
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*BLURP*
Oops, sorry Harald... I threw up on your tuxedo :-(
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@z5
I don't see any reason for Bernd not to have released Umilator.
Well, if it was your phone that kept ringing, your mailbox that was being flooded and your letterbox that the letters dropped through, then perhaps you might have another perspective. Equally, it's not you that has to approach prospective business partners by saying "I want to work with you on this, but you should know about this guy...".
Nah, i still don't get it...i think there is more to this story than has been told.
Of course there is, that's normal. It doesn't mean that what you don't know necessarily changes the overall picture though. One day someone will spill the beans about the nitty gritty stuff, but it won't be today and it won't be me, not least because I don't know all of it either.
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By reading this article, you agree not to hold Amiga.org or any reader of the website liable for any damages or perceived damages to you or to your company. If you do not agree with this, then please Click here (http://www.microsoft.com)
"Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "
In the USA we have something called Freedom of Press! You win the DA award (Dumb Ass). Such a Freedom is something you Nazi Germans don't understand. You can file claim in the US, but since amiga.org is considered "Press" then you won't do much damage. Your product has been mentioned on other websites (Zdnet, The Register, etc.). Good luck suing them. They'll eat your a** alive! Sue in a German court? Ha. German authorities don't have the right to come to the USA and arrest someone. So noone will show up in your Nazi German court. Big waste, as is your threat.
There have been several other companies that have had more evidence to sue the Press for damages to their companies, but very few (if any) succeeded. The TV show 20/20 did a negative report on Food Lion (a grocery store chain), and they went under because of it. If they couldn't be successful in a lawsuit, then you have no hope at all.
I tried your Amithlon, but I didn't like it. Reminded me of Windows--it crashed all the time. Oops. Going to sue me? Good luck. Microsoft has more of a case than you do because lots of people say that Windows crashes. You're battling for naught.
If you're so upset, why don't you stop being so selfish and conceeded. Arogance won't get you very far. I'll never advertise, promote, or purchase ANY of your products ever again! And I hope others do the same.
Remember, by reading this article, you agreed not to hold Amiga.org or any reader of the website liable for any damages or perceived damages to you or to your company.
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DavidF215 wrote:
That was totally unnecessary and unjustified. You should apologise profoundly to every single person of German extraction here - including Harald Frank.
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@DavidF215
1 - Cut the racist cr*p. Insulting Harald a bit is fine, but those comments were way off mark. This is an international forum - if you don't like that, then you don't have to stay. At least have the decency to edit out that comment and apologise. Oh, and remember that a lot of Amiga companies and users are German, such as Hyperion (and I think the MorphOS guys).
2 - Do your research. We're not complaining about Amithlon, which is a good product coded by a through-and-through Amigan. We're complaining about the way he, and his product, was handled by H&P, and how Harald doesn't want anyone to say "the word".
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DavidF215 wrote:
The TV show 20/20 did a negative report on Food Lion (a grocery store chain), and they went under because of it.
While Food Lion did eventually lose thier case against ABC and lost a hefty sum of money because of the 20/20 story, they did not go under. It's doubtful that they'll go under any time soon. Delhaize America, Food Lions parent, has has increasing growth since 1999. This information comes from the Hoovers.com business database, in case you're interested.
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amigaos has nothing to do on a lame x86 setups....
Note that Amiga Inc has licensed AmigaOS solutions for X86 markets i.e.
1. Cloanto
2. Bernie
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As much as I agree with you lempkee in my dislike and distrust of emulators
Note that AmigaOS 4.0 has a 68k emulation layer...
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amigaos has nothing to do on a lame x86 setups....
Yes of course Mr zealot, you anti AmigaOS on x86 people really need to look at the bigger picture for once instead of blind following and ignoring what is good for the amiga.
Also this thread is about Harald Frank and his wild email not how much you hate people what run AOS on good, fast, cheap, x86 hardware.
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:-P I concur with Ivan. H F is absurd.
Gadget(cbm)
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Any news about UMILATOR?