Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: fatman2021 on October 02, 2003, 09:40:28 PM
-
AmigaOS 4.0 is going to be sussessful becouse Microsft Windows is a terrible operating system and that most people are so sick and tired of Windows and all the problems that comes along with using Windows. Most of these same people are dieing for something knew to come out. They don't want to use linux or bsd becouse it is complicated for the average user and MacOS X won't run most of there software. AROS is still to under developed to be a useful operating system and MorphOS depends to much on emulation to be a good operating system. AmigaOS runs most if not all of its software natively, is easy to use, and has a large number of programs(most of them a be downloaded free of charge) and most importantly...AmigaOS will not crash as many times as Microsoft Windows. My point is that AmigaOS will once again blow every operating system on the market out of the water.
-
erm pegasos and amigaone have the same share of emulation needed to be backwards compatible , only matter is that one is amiga other is a clone.
i am pro amigaos4 but this comment by you aint something i can say is correct.
-
What makes you think users deterred by Mac OSX's incompatibility with their existing Windows software be any more likely to move to AmigaOS?
It's really cool that you feel that positive about the future of the Amiga and I don't want to feel like I'm coming down on anyone for it. But, really... Apple is a big company with a large advertising budget and still most home computers are Windows machines. Who's got the multi-million dollar marketing budget for AmigaOS/MOS/AROS? Amiga Inc? :lol:
-
...and then you woke up.
-
OS4 will be successful for Amiga users but when the software is so tiny no one seriously would go from a platform what has all the software they will ever need to a platform what has not even got something so standard as a decent web browser.
-
I disagree. OS4 will have several years worth of much heavier emulation than MorphOS. I would explain, but I don't want to anger anyone :-P
-
Fath manages
That's all I'm going to say about OS4 future.
-
If you ask any one that used Microsoft Windows then you would know that they don't like using it and that they would give anything to have a Microsoft Windows replacement.
-
I don't think that is enough. Did you read Dave's Interview? What is so special about AmigaOS that will make it stand out in a sea of PC clones?
-
@fatman2021
If you ask any one that used Microsoft Windows then you would know that they don't like using it and that they would give anything to have a Microsoft Windows replacement.
If if that were true - and it isn't - what does it have to do with the price of fish?
I have news for you: most people don't buy computers because of the operating system. No one is going to switch to AmigaOS4 and buy an AmigaOne just because they don't like something about Windows.
-
@fatman2021:
I suspect that most such people simply hate "computers". To them, hating Windows and hating their computer is the same thing; they haven't gone out and tried any alternatives (and if they had, then presumably they didn't like them if they're still using Windows).
I must have missed the press release that said that OS4 will be free of crashes, viruses, bugs, and that it will always do exactly what the user wants, and the user will know how to do anything with it he wants. Because otherwise, they're going to have exactly the same complaints that they have with Windows.
-
I have news for you: most people don't buy computers because of the operating system. No one is going to switch to AmigaOS4 and buy an AmigaOne just because they don't like something about Windows
@bhoggett I also have some news for you. The only reason that people even buy them is because all the stores are force feeding them (man I have take a dump) Winblows and Mac-in-trash computers. All of the major computer stores sells them. If they were to start selling AmigaOnes running AmigaOS 4.0 they would end up selling more AmigaOnes then Winblows and Mac-in-trash computers hands down…end of story. People will buy it because it’s the better computer system.
-
If you ask any one that used Microsoft Windows then you would know that they don't like using it and that they would give anything to have a Microsoft Windows replacement.
You do not use a OS that you do not like, simple as that, so all these millions upon millions of people would ditch fast, cheap hardware for a mega expensive poor specs board with a OS what has such little software? those reasons alone is why the Amiga and OS will continue to stay a minority permanently and will never be taken serious.
-
I suspect that most such people simply hate "computers". To them, hating Windows and hating their computer is the same thing; they haven't gone out and tried any alternatives (and if they had, then presumably they didn't like them if they're still using Windows).
What real alternatives are there? I can only see one alternative, which is linux/bsd, which still is not mature enough for the average person to use as a desktop OS.
There is BeOS and QNX though, but none of them has enough software or even hardware support.
And macs being expensive as hel*, and also lacks software/games *sigh* :-(
Microsoft has destroyed any chance of a alternative... Users want software/games, software developers wants users... and endless bad circle here.......
-
ou do not use a OS that you do not like, simple as that
That is totally bullsh*t... I am forced to use Winbloat due to my video editing/dvb-sat ripping needs... If it wasnt for that, i would have no problem removing windows from dual boot and start using linux for fulltime.
-
@fatman2021
People will buy it because it?s the better computer system.
Based on what? The hardware is mediocre and expensive. The operating system is primitive and most likely relatively unstable, and the software base is non-existent. There is nothing innovative or exciting about any of it, except for the fanatics.
But the real reason it has no chance of getting anywhere is that it is based on the needs of people with a tenuous grip on reality. Those who cannot understand the real markets cannot produce what those markets require.
-
You do not use a OS that you do not like, simple as that, so all these millions upon millions of people would ditch fast, cheap hardware for a mega expensive poor specs board with a OS what has such little software? those reasons alone is why the Amiga and OS will continue to stay a minority permanently and will never be taken serious.
Maybe people would take the Amiga Platform more seriously if the members of the Amiga Community would stop flaming each other and use that same energy developing some serious programs.
-
The operating system is primitive and most likely relatively unstable
AmigaOS primitive? The first multimedia OS with decent multitasking? sure it is a bit outdated, but that is what hyperion is doing now, making it modern.... All my amiga systems has been way more stable than any wintel pcs i have touched... Sure, it crashes if you run a buggy program, but atleast the OS itself is rock solid as long as you run good programs. Thogh this will be fixed when memory protection will be added...
-
Maybe people would take the Amiga Platform more seriously if the members of the Amiga Community would stop flaming each other and use that same energy developing some serious programs.
Agree on that!
-
I always feel that. Well come on, where was Linux ten years ago? Amiga has just as much a chance as Linux. It's different but so what, it's got a long way to go but so what. At one point so did Linux, BSD did pretty darn well too. It's got a chance, not one as amazing as the Amiga in 1985, btu hey, gotta start somewhere, and it usually isn't the top.
-
Hello!
I just agree with you! AmigaOne/ OS4.x has a good chance in the worldmarket, because the system with OS 4.0 is a brand new Amiga product and People know Amiga is a real quality computer, they also know that PC/WIN is a crap system!
I have heard people says
its so bad that Amiga is dead, why!
but they just dont know that Amiga is really going to come back for real this time!
When the AOS 4.0 is released, maybe a year after people would have their eyes on the Brand new Amiga product!
I think that People are so angry on whats going on from Microsoft, monopoly company who try to stop all other system to try move forward in market!
They pay alot of money to stop other OS like Linux for example!...(they buy company and so on!)...
Many advanced computer user would love the new Amiga, they know that Amiga has a very special feeling to use and they know they ´have a good control over the Operating system!
F*** Windows away in the big sky!
when Amiga OS 4.0 is out there is only one system for them left!
Blocked out curse words..
Edited by TheMagicM
-
Hello!
I just agree with you! AmigaOne/ OS4.x has a good chance in the worldmarket, because the system with OS 4.0 i brand new Amiga product and People know Amiga is a real qulity computer, they also know that PC/WIN is a crap system!
I have Heard people! its to bad that Amiga is dead! but they just dont know that Amiga is really to come back for real this time!
When the AOS 4.0 is released maybe a year after people would have their eyes on the Brand new Amiga product!
I think that People are so angry on whats going on from Microsoft, monopoly company who try to stop all other system to try move forward in market!
They pay a lot to stop other OS like Linux for example!...
Many advanced computer user would love the new Amiga they know that Amiga has a very special feeling to use and they know they ´have a good control over the Operating system!
#### Windows when os 4.0 is out!
-
I hope you are right but...
As you already know, Windows have taken over the world of computing. Yea, i agree, windows do suck, but there is something you haven't thought about.
I assume that we all agree that the world needs a new OS ok?
ok.... Now, this OS might be the AmigaOS ok?
ok.... So, AmigaOS4 is out, people are getting nuts about it and starts to conquer the world...ok?
ok... Here is where the problems appear!
Some users already have a HUGE amount of registered programs, spent a lot of money on GFX cards, video editing cards, audio cards e.t.c.
This means that AmigaOS4 seems already incompatible with their machines or their expensive extra hardware. Also incompatible with programs that already took over the world, progs like Premiere and Photoshop from Adobe - (I know that there are fantastic programs on Amiga already, but a dtp pro who creates 10-20 posters per day DOES NOT HAVE THE TIME TO START OVER WITH A NEW PROGRAM!), After effects another prog from Adobe already dominated the Film industry, Lightwave (Newtek has not released an amiga version for a LONG time). 3D studio MAX, Final Cut Pro, AVID programs, Illustrator again from Adobe, Flash MX from Macromedia e.t.c.
This catalog could continue for many, many pages...
That was the first problem!
There is a second one...
Nostalgia! Yes, Amiga had (and still has) great games and progs! So does the PC. Fantastic games go out on the market everyday! Millions of users in organised fun-clubs, talk to forums and play on-line every second. FACT: HUGE, REALLY HUGE AMOUNTS OF COMPUTER HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE WITH FANATIC USERS ARE ALREADY OUT THERE!
So, these PC users will start to form clubs. Play their 10 or 18 year old games, talk to forums, help each other and blame the M*soft company for letting them down...
Reminds you of something? If it doesn't just check again the url of your browser. It says www.amiga.org...
I know this will sound like a movie line, but it is true: Everything is a circle. Yes, Amiga will shine again, but not for long. PCs or Macs or something alse will come out again and re-shine. And Amiga will re-shine and so on...
It is NOT the computer, It is not the OS.
Everything is about the community.
Or the Nostalgia, if you prefer....
-
@Tomas
AmigaOS primitive?
Yes, by today's standards it most certainly is.
The first multimedia OS with decent multitasking?
2003, not 1985...
sure it is a bit outdated, but that is what hyperion is doing now, making it modern....
Not so far. So far, all they're doing is re-writing a lot of the old stuff. The design isn't radically different, and the OS still lacks a lot of the features one expects as standard elsewhere.
All my amiga systems has been way more stable than any wintel pcs i have touched...
That's never been my experience.
Sure, it crashes if you run a buggy program, but atleast the OS itself is rock solid as long as you run good programs.
That's a pointless argument. The OS itself is fine as long as nothing crashes it. Same applies to all other operating systems. There's always something else that causes the crash, such as bad drivers or buggy apps. A stable and robust OS doesn't fall over when crashes happen though, which can never be said of AmigaOS.
Thogh this will be fixed when memory protection will be added...
Windows has had memory protection for a long time - it hasn't stopped it crashing, even now. Memory protection alone won't make for a stable OS.
-
>stop flaming each other and use that same energy >developing some serious programs.
I fear that all Amigans are being torn apart
into groups that believe in different rumours.
If we had a place where ALL features
of ALL amiga operating systems had been listed,
then we could always base our statements on that,
and ignore those who do not point to it.
Like forinstance the founder of this thread
has no hard facts to hold on to,
so he should have expressed better that
this is only his hopes,
and that what he said about the other operating systems is his opinion,
or else he will get flamed.
And flaming leads to more flaming
or pointless arguing.
List the hardcore features of every OS
and then we are getting somewhere.
Torn apart ppl will obvously have a harder time
teaming up and make programs.
The energy you see here and everywhere else
could infact be an attempt to unify our thoughts
so that we could work togheter more easily.
But considering all the propaganda,
rumours, and even false hopes from Amiga.Inc,
we will probably continue to slide apart...
The source of the rumours and propaganda could be ppl who do not wish amiga.inc or amiga in particular to become a strong competitor on the global computerized world.
Like Microsoft or Apple.
But more likely it is we amigans ourselves that create our own bad rumours.
-
I think that just getting 4.0 out the door is very important right now. This will help to "gel" the community and provide a reference foundation for moving forward.
4..0+ should focus heavily on two fronts:
Games development
Let's get the missing/partially complete API's completed - this means the new graphic driver system as well as the 3D support.
I don't know what else is missing/incomplete in 4.0 - sound and/or input APIs? I think they are all pretty much taken care of.
Any compatibility libraries that can help ports from Win/Mac/Linux/PS2/XBox/whatever couldn't hurt either.
Open-source development/ports.
Build a release that encourages ports of open-source products such as OpenOffice, PostgreSQL, Apache, etc.
Provide as many UNIX-compatibility libraries as possible to make the porting process slick!
Many of these products are approaching the feature-completeness and stability of the equivalent commercial offerings.
Having good solid ports of the most popular development environments (i.e. gcc) would be a great first step.
About LINUX
I personally think Linux is just too complicated for the desktop. Too many ways to boot (LILO or GRUB), too many ways too install (name that distribution), turf wars over the "better" frond-end (i.e. KDE or ??), etc... Good luck supporting the unique combo someone is running.
Amiga is in a nice sweet-spot - not bloated like Windows (and dare I say Linux). It just needs more beefing up. I see no reason why with enough "kernel" and filesystem work it can't excel at things like serving up web pages and databases alongside MS and the Linux camp.
That's my 2c. Flame away.
-
Here is a link to the offical AmigaOS Feature Setclick here (http://os.amiga.com/os4/OS4Features.php)
-
fatman2021 wrote:
They don't want to use linux or bsd becouse it is complicated for the average user and MacOS X won't run most of there software
And OS4 will automagically run all their old Windows apps??
Also, if it comes to a choice between Mac and Amiga, which system has the most apps available (native PPC apps, not 68k under emulation)? Which system has the better browser? etc etc
OS4 and MorphOS won`t overthrow Windows. I wish they would,but I don`t see it happening.
-
People will buy it because it’s the better computer system.
One has to define “better system”. In terms “business systems”, I don’t think Amiga is ready for this.
The “Business PC” (i.e.the IBM PC/AT and compatible standard) is a powerful force due to it’s relation to economics. A tool for generating income and solving business problems e.g. Lotus 123 for DOS back in mid 80s (relates to software availability issue). It’s all about economics. The available hardware and software is only a means to an end.
PS; IBM’s PC/AT standard still out guns Commodore’s Amiga sales even when the Amiga’s at its peak.
-
I think the general users(the sales or office clerks, internet surfers) I know will not notice much difference between AOS4 and the desktops they currently use.
The enthasis, I feel should change from being seen as a competitor to WIndows/MacOS to more of a desktop PDA style OS.
In these systems the OS is hidden away from the user so they feel there is only them and the task they wish to do.
In a sense the OS is now getting in the way.
The idea of moving the OS to be more innaccesable to the user will upset a lot of people here. But computers are now a consumer product and should be marketed like a phone, car, tv or even an appliance like a fridge or a washer. These are all computerised yet we do not see their OS.
The Amiga 500 sold becuse it had cool games. The Amiga 2/3/4000 sold becuse it could do get great products that could be sold to clients. Not many machines were sold because of what the OS could do but what the OS helped users to do.
Valan
-
@Valan
There is a place for the "consumer" computers you describe, and also a place for the "traditional" computers. They serve differents needs.
The consumer appliance approach does simplify things by hiding everything away, but it removes choice. You get the appliance and use it exactly as it was set up to work. If you need something else, you will have to get a different appliance.
The traditional desktop computer approach is more complex. yes, but it gives infinitely more choice and freedom, neither of which are available from the appliance.
At the end of the day, it depends on whom you are targeting with the product.
-
@ Valan
True - and this is probably why Windows will be in the ascendency for years to come, simply because it has the applications no other OS has
-
And OS4 will automagically run all their old Windows apps??
That's why we need some kind of version of WINE, so that windows apps could run on our amiga OS. Of course there is a binary problem, when running on PPC processors. :-D
I thought that was one of the ideas of Amiga DE; that programs should be hardware independant and be able to run anywhere.
Once Amiga OS is ported to Intel/AMD processors, that is the point at which idle curiousity will bring vast numbers of new users to the Amiga OS. It's pretty hard to tell if it's an improvement until you try it.
As far as program development goes, it's a lot easier to program for game machines when you don't have to worry about which video card, which audio card, what controller are installed in all of the machines. That was an advantage the Amiga hardware had as well, but will not have any longer when it is designed to run on a wider range of machines. :-(
-
jeffimix wrote:
I always feel that. Well come on, where was Linux ten years ago? Amiga has just as much a chance as Linux. It's different but so what, it's got a long way to go but so what. At one point so did Linux, BSD did pretty darn well too.
Linux/GNU’s main succuss is due to X86 bandwagon (i.e. *nix like OS for i386 clone boxes back in the early 90s. It also leveraged the same boat anchor as MS). The two dominant OSs (i.e. Linux and Windows) originated from X86 world.
In summary, the Motorola factor has bitten all of 68K vendors. IF Motorola has AMD/Intel’s fighting sprit then these 68K vendors could have flourish.
-
I believe you on EVERY point why the Amiga is better. But being the best isn't why computers sell. IBM was never the best, but the masses wanted one. The public these days think there is now only and has always been only Windows and the Windows Wannabe Macintosh. Some of them like Macintosh better. Fine. Windows is in the public eye. Bill Gates is in the public eye. The Amiga can be super stable and super fast and super everything. But right now, if you tell a guy it can't run Windows, he wonder's what the heck good an Amiga is for. If Amiga is ever going to take it's RIGHTFUL place on top, it's going to have to 1. Amaze the masses and 2. Advertise MORE than IBM and Microsoft and Intel and all them. People don't shop for the best brand. They shop for the NAME brand. And Amiga has a NAME among some fans who happened to own computers longer than since 1995. Microsoft has reached out to people who don't know A THING about computers but now can use them anyway. Such people will NEVER understand what it is about Amiga that makes it better. Amiga is going to have to amaze the natives cuz right now they think Bill Gates is a god.
-
I guess we are a sad lot now, but I still love that little AmigaOS, its so...uhh sexy? :-o
-
mnoldoj_rowq wrote:
Amiga has a NAME among some fans who happened to own computers longer than since 1995.
Interesting point. Commodore went down just before web access became available to the masses, and computing started to become something everybody and their grandmother did. I wonder how many people think PCs were invented in 1994. It was all internet this and multimedia CD-ROM that, and the machine you bought simply had to be an IBM PC compatible, 'cause the magazines said so. It was the first thing you asked the dealer, even though you didn't know what on Earth it meant.
Amidst all that hype, it's no wonder that traditional home computers like the Amiga got buried, out of th sight of the public. It's generally said that we'd have been screwed without the web pages and forums to help each other out and stay informed, but did the internet really save the Amiga, or did it kill it off once and for all?
-
Just what is it with all of these ppl starting useless threads lately? Fatman, doommaster, the Shawn clone.....
:roll:
-
There was me, thinking I'd just made an incredibly insightful and thought-provoking post. :-D
-
Erm; that wasn't aimed at you punk_guy :-D.
-edit-
Perhaps I should edit that to 'ppl starting threads which are useless in the beginning' ;-).
-
Hi,
Don't want to be negitive here but
Amiga OS 4.0 runs only on a PPC type processor. Windows machines are pentium instructions so OS 4.0 won't run on a PC machine.
I really don't think that in todays market a 800 mhz machine is going to raise many eye brows, or do I think that a new OS for this 800 mhz machine is going to cause much stir.
Best bet for Amiga Inc. is to develope Amiga OS 4.0 for PC clone machines so that we can take winblows off our PC's and put on Amiga 4.0.
The day of the PPC is over, by about 3 years, only chance for Amiga to survive is OS crossover to another platform.
smerf
Amiga 3000, Amiga 1200, Amiga CD32, Amiga 500, and Amiga 1000.
Amiga 1000> supra 2 meg memory, supra hard drive card, midi, 5 1/4 inch drive, 2 3.5 880K drives, supra modem 68000 at 14 mhz accelerator.
Amiga 500 stock with 512 memory.
Amiga CD32, with SX-1 and 8 meg memory, and 250 meg hard drive, switches to turn on & off memory, and hard drive.
Amiga 1200, 603e 210 mhz ppc card with 40 mhz 68040, 2.2 gig hard drive, 52x cdrom, 32 meg memory, external PC power supply.
Amiga 3000 > Picasso II card, GVP IV 24 card, 18 meg memory, 68030 at 25mhz, 68040 25 mhz accelerator, 2.2 gig scsi, 330 meg scsi, 850 meg scsi, 250 meg scsi, yahama cdrw scsi , GVP color splitter and genlock, ami gen, sometimes sound digitizer,.
Amiga is more then a computer, its fun, what do you want to create today.
Smerf :-P
-
For a new system let alone an OS the become successful in this climate requires a few things in my opinion.
The hardware must be competative in performance.
The hardware must be at least as reliable, or more so than current hardware.
The system must be competative in the pricewars, unless it holds an advantage of some kind to offset the price disadvantage.
The OS must be capable of running most of the software available, and darn close to running all the "essential" software available.
That being said what an OS/system need to have a chance at carving out its own niche is a full office suite that can read and work with all the major document types.
It must have full network capability from the server down to the user(average Joe)
It must be stable, easy to use and forgiving of user error with a good backup/support progam behind it.
It must have good security features.
Where are we with Amiga?
Well the hardware is competetive in performance.Most computers in use in the world are not 3GHZ x86's they are closer to 1.5GHz at best.
As for reliablity....yet to be proven but thing look cautously optimistic...
Pricing...only really competative with the Mac at this point...we shall see if pricing will come down as promised, the Alite may be a good step in that direction
Running software big failure here.
full office suit...another failure here too
Networking capability this area looks promising, yet I believe this area needs much more development
The OS is not out yet so stability issues are still to be seen.
All that being said:
The machine will run linux so that is an advantage for many things such as server farms and so on, if the price/performance/ongoing costs become competitive.
Amiga DE and OS5 have the potential to bring much of the software to the Amiga, and attract developers.OS5 will be hardware independant removing the hardware side of the equation, it is also supposed to be a 64 bit OS.
My conclusion is that Amiga has the potential to make it back, especially with the TCPA thing making alot of people worried about the future.In my opinion is is Amiga DE that is the key here, it is the vehicle to bring software to the platform, new developers and they key to making OS5 hardware independant.One of its big advantages is that it can attract software developers because it will run on windows Mac and Linux and hence leverage that userbase for itself.It is very very risky though.
In my opinion, if Amiga Inc. do go down the Amiga has lost its chance to become a mainstream system again, though it will likely succeed in becoming a niche market machine.
IF Amiga Inc can somehow stay alive, then Amiga has the CHANCE to become a mainstream machine again, but only if it can hijack enough developers from windows Mac and Linux.
The hardware between Peg and Amiga is kinda a non issue, they are very similar.The OS's will eventually seperate into two different machines, and the community will have completed the split.I suggest this will happen about 1-2years after OS4 is released.
Like it or not Amiga Inc and its solution IS the inheritor of the Amiga Legacy, and even if Amiga Inc goes under and Genesi get the chance at all the IP etc, they have already stated they have no intrest in the hardware, the OS they will farm out to open source GPL.The only thing they are interested in is Amiga DE.This is provided what they have stated in public forums is in fact true and accurate.
Anyway I have rambled long enuff, but I really dont hold much hope for the Amiga platform if Amiga Inc goes down unless some truely benevolent company picks them up.The Pagasos to me is not a replacement to me, merely another machine and I thinks its only hope is in industrial applications at this point.
-
To fatman2021:
Since at least 79% of the planet Earth runs on PCs Will there be a version of the Amiga OS 4.0 that runs on PCs? I think not, so we are stuck using Winblows, I mean Windows. :-o
-
Windows is not a terrible operating system, it hasn't been since Windows 2000. I have 3 Amiga computers 2 Macintoshes and 2 PCs. The idea that Windows has problems is unrealistic.. The fastest Amiga out there is an emulated one running WinUAE..
The reality of the truth here is my Windows XP box hasn't crashed or blue screened in two years..
As far as machines go I routinely use different operating systems every day. I really think the Amiga would get further if it's users didn't attempt to slam Windows all the time and focus on what makes the Amiga cool, which used to be it's cool graphics and now it's just it's unique operating system concepts. The amount of mainstream software for Amiga has shrank and over 80% of the people doing development for it have moved to the PC and Mac.
As far as the Mac goes, OS X is based on something called OpenDarwin (a flavor of BSD unix) with a new interface over it that looks nothing like the original Mac OS. Emulation of Mac applications on it seems to work thru a layer (similar to the way old NextSTEP computers could emulate old Mac 68k apps) nothing really new there (just run a copy of the OS).
I would also make the point that more people in the USA know that MorphOS exists than they do Amiga Inc even in this short amount of time.. At least the genesi people are "MARKETING"..
Most people in the USA are suprised to know that Amiga.COM exists still and the video folks who were using the Amiga (it's only nitche market) will only return if the toaster moved to it, which it probably won't.
Let's be realistic here and say things about the Amiga on it's own merit. Europe hasn't forgot about the Amiga but the USA has, and even Amiga Inc has to re-educate folks about what it is..
When the Amiga was in it's hey day there was little PC software development for Windows or Mac that were "must have" software. People have learned that computers are tools for getting work done and aren't religious about them anymore.
The Amiga is getting a re-start but the applications just aren't on par to make someone choose it over a PC or a Mac yet (maybe in a few years) and what was there left the platform with Commodore.
ImageFX, PageStream, and the two or three other programs just don't compete anymore and the hardware on the PC and Mac is plentiful, affordable, and available and doesn't compete anymore.
People's expectations are higher, and I think with the next versions of MacOS and Windows in two years you will see an even greater disparity of functionality. The Amiga is very lightweight and cool, but then again so was BeOS and it worked on PPCs and Macs and Intel PCs and was very Amiga-like..
Why didn't it gain marketshare? The unix people love linux, and the Mac and PC folks don't want to have to learn something and are very loyal cause they like the software that's there and it's functionality.
There is always a backlash against a dominant computing platform, but that's not gonna make the Amiga win out..
Good cool stable easy to use software (not games) is gonna do it, and unique stuff to the Amiga (though no one here so far has talked about just what that is yet). The Amiga certainly doesn't have cutting edge graphics any more it's just equal and loosing ground there if you look at 3D hardware from Nvidia and ATI..
What is Genesi marketing too? It's unique qualities.. Amiga Inc. needs to do the same thing but unfortunately now AmigaOS has a competitor in it's own community which is split and too small..
Why does Amiga Inc show in Europe and the UK and not in the USA it's stuff.. We here already know that answer.. The Amiga is still supportable just not in the US.. So much for the "world market".. The Amiga platform support here died here with Commodore and hasn't really come back..
It comes from a company that doesn't even maintain offices with regular business hours. The Amiga was the cool hardware, the OS was redesigned 3x to catch up and the move ahead of it's competition of the day..
Who here is really betting on Amiga Inc.'s success with OS 4?? Maybe they will get it out the door someday and I wish them success, but so far I don't see Amiga Inc. (an American company) doing what it needs to survive and be successful in it's own country..
So please no more pipe dreams about the Amiga's superiority. It needs a solid company behind it It also needs applications that draw people to it. Where have they all gone..
-
@donnyEMU
Ever consider that you may be one of the lucky few?
Windows....I just cant say enuff about it, I prefer dos to windows.Windows is the Master Control Program as seen in TRON.Actually, I think the MCP could learn a thing or two from windows lol.
In my opinion an OS should be nothing more than an interface between the user, the hardware and the software you use.
-
@fatman2021 :
it seems you never used a PC with windows or that you don't know a lot
of people using it (you're a licky guy or you don't go outside enough
;-)). Anyway your statement is ridiculous, AmigaOS4 (nor Morphos) will
never make mass people to change their habits in using windows
softwares.... WINE for AmigaOS is impossible it depends on the x86
porocessor from what I know.
So be a little more realistic and before posting that kind of useless
thread, think about the consequencies (flaming...)
Welcome in the real world.
PS : AmigaOS (and Morphos) will have their own market and will never
compete with Windows and it is not the aim of both OSes.
-
Why would OS4 (or MorphOS for that matter) be more succesful than say BeOS ?
The PC market is Microsoft's, the PPC market is Apple's. The leftovers are for Linux.
They are going to have to come with something quite amazing to even make a small change to that. We are all Amiga enthousiasts here and that may warp our view. The outside world couldn't care less about Amiga, it's OS etc... As things stand now we will be lucky if our new "Amiga" (again no preference for blue or red) can do everything a PC and a Mac can do, preferably with the same quality or better.
-
Since we're talking Macs...
The new Macs are based on UNIX. Nice idea but the layers of complexity (and eye-candy) make the UI quite sluggish. Look at all the complaints on the various Mac forums one day. Maybe at 2Ghz the UI is useable now?? :roll:
Amiga OS on the other hand will be pedal-to-the-metal. The UI should be _really_ snappy on a 1GHz CPU with a decent Gfx card (once native drivers show up). :-D
Does this stir up any flames?? ;-)
-
Windows is not as dominant as it was even a couple of years ago. Since the www started windows has far more competitors.
A electronic language translater today has as much computing power as the original Amiga. PDAs run CPUs of 66-400mhz, so size is not everything. Portables are both getting smaller and larger.
In short we need to change our view of what is a personal computer.
I think the days of Windows and Macos platforms are nearly over. 5 years at most since the sales of desktops are shrinking. I think that is what Dave Haynie meant. Why reproduce a dieing platform format?
As the technology gets cheaper and the choice is more varied people will pick and choose what computing they want to do.
People do not want one great all round machine. Just take a look at the shops in the high street. People will want their machine to communicate with others easily. The platform that allows for easy communication will win out.
Today that means Apple Mac and Sony.
Valan
-
@ everyone
I was going to write something here, but it's another one of those same old threads, same old arguments, same old retorts. Can we just not bother for a change?
-
right fatman2021, my way of thinking also...
-
Out of all operating systems, Amiga OS 4 is clearly the better mint. IMHO
-
CU_AMiGA wrote:
Out of all operating systems, Amiga OS 4 is clearly the better mint. IMHO
But it won't be sucessful in bringing down M$ and taking ovr the world, etc. That's the point.
-
mikeymike wrote:
@ everyone
I was going to write something here, but it's another one of those same old threads, same old arguments, same old retorts. Can we just not bother for a change?
Oh c'mon mikeymike, CLEARLY a positive comment about OS4, though maybe naive in nature, deserves a *thorough* trouncing!! I mean, everybody KNOWS that OS4 is going to fall flat on its face. But MorphOS? Now, THERE is an OS with REAL POTENTIAL and its going to SUCCEED and make $$$ and make Bill Buck the next Bill Gates and build a space-station in the year 2008 and cure cancer and travel back in time to discover how pyramids were built.
This is getting old.
To those of you who calmly explained sound business ideals and realistic expectations to the thread originator, I applaud you. To those of you who took it upon yourselves to flame away needlessly (because you KNOW redrumloa isn't going to moderate on a OS4 bashing thread) I give you the bronx cheer and icy glares in your general direction.
pfeh... :madashell:
-
that_punk_guy wrote:
CU_AMiGA wrote:
Out of all operating systems, Amiga OS 4 is clearly the better mint. IMHO
But it won't be sucessful in bringing down M$ and taking ovr the world, etc. That's the point.
oh dear! :-(
The only other possiblities could be making OS 4 multiformat, but that will take development time and that. It must be possible cos M$ has done ever so well in selling a bollocks operating system over the years (maybe not XP). They have down really well considering.
-
legion wrote:
mikeymike wrote:
@ everyone
I was going to write something here, but it's another one of those same old threads, same old arguments, same old retorts. Can we just not bother for a change?
Oh c'mon mikeymike, CLEARLY a positive comment about OS4, though maybe naive in nature, deserves a *thorough* trouncing!! I mean, everybody KNOWS that OS4 is going to fall flat on its face. But MorphOS? Now, THERE is an OS with REAL POTENTIAL and its going to SUCCEED and make $$$ and make Bill Buck the next Bill Gates and build a space-station in the year 2008 and cure cancer and travel back in time to discover how pyramids were built.
This is getting old.
To those of you who calmly explained sound business ideals and realistic expectations to the thread originator, I applaud you. To those of you who took it upon yourselves to flame away needlessly (because you KNOW redrumloa isn't going to moderate on a OS4 bashing thread) I give you the bronx cheer and icy glares in your general direction.
pfeh... :madashell:
I would laugh so much at you if Amiga OS 4 did actually come out you smug ####.
-
I should have added that what made the Amiga great and still worthwhile, IMHO, is that it allowed users to do what they wanted.
An over enthasised but little understood fact is that the Amiga was not a small machine playing catchup. It was cutting edge and as much power as the desktop had ever seen. This in itself was enough in its day but added to that the Amiga allowed ordinary users to reach out to the high end, to do what only highly trained proffesionals had done before. DPaint seems crude now but I canremember doing things which I had seen done only on Quantel systems on tv.
Hyperion and Eyetech seem bored by the mundane act they have no choice but to do and they are looking forward to doing the work they really wish to do.
Finaly, OS4 is only bringing the OS partially upto date, it does not and is not meant to surpass anything. It is simply a neccessary step.
My guess is that the real excitement comes beyond OS4 or even OS5.
Valan
Well, that's what drinking brandy with the inlaws does, take care.
-
@ CU_AMiGA
I think legion was being sarcastic.
@ legion
Show me a comment that deserves moderation in this thread. Otherwise don't slate Amiga.org staff needlessly.
-
sorry
-
Is it the general opinion that the release of AOS 4 will unite the Amiga platform and users and give a definite standard where we can all start?
I know there are a few alternative OS's around but I have no experience of any of these. I am wondering if there is already too much fragmentation in the community. Will people who use one of the alternatives want to switch to AOS 4? Although I understand that you would need a PPC machine for AOS 4.
-
Is it the general opinion that the release of AOS 4 will unite the Amiga platform and users and give a definite standard where we can all start?
Nope :-) Say hello to MorphOS and AROS.
-
Pegasos/morphOS is mediocre and expensive. The operating system is primitive and most likely relatively unstable, and the software base is non-existent. There is nothing innovative or exciting about any of it, except for the fanatics.
But the real reason it has no chance of getting anywhere is that it is based on the needs of people with a tenuous grip on reality. Those who cannot understand the real markets cannot produce what those markets require.
-
Well it is the the only amiga operating system that runs on the new amiga hardware so it should do well . as long as it does not take to much longer before its released .
pegasos 2 machines will be made soon so sales of os4 might get a bit smaller as the people who hate waiting want something they can use straight away .
:-)
-
The day of the PPC is over, by about 3 years, only chance for Amiga to survive is OS crossover to another platform.
I think the plan is exactly to move on.. But it cant be done right away, it takes a whole lot of time to port, and also what software would you have on x86? All software would have to be ported too :\
But yeah, i kinda agree... ppc seems to be a dying platform.. Looks a little better now though, after that G5 cpu was released.
-
The reality of the truth here is my Windows XP box hasn't crashed or blue screened in two years..
Mine has.... The most funny thing was that i installed XP on my laptop a few months ago, first crash was right after bootup :O Though i have not installed any 3th party software and also used only m$ certified drivers.
But i do agree, winNT, 2k/xp is far from as unstable as the previous systems"win9x/me" and such.. Both 2k and winxp is unbearable slow though, even on a modern system it is not very responsive.
-
amigamad wrote:
Well it is the the only amiga operating system that runs on the new amiga hardware...pegasos 2 machines will be made soon so sales of os4 might get a bit smaller as the people who hate waiting want something they can use straight away .
I have to agree here. I'm waiting for a new amiga hardware/OS soooo long, since 1996 (I think so), and every day I'm becoming more and more impatient. Switching to a new platform is not as easy as some ppl think it is. There is a lot of apps I will miss in the very begining, but still, I can move over it.
If there is nothing in the sky until january-february 2004. I'll probably go MorphOS way. That doesn't mean that I'm not going to buy AO4+hardware in some future, but I just can't wait any more. You got the point here, amigamad.
Regards
levelLORD
-
Well as you already know, I gave up holding hope for OS4 a while back. People who have seen my posts on here the last year or so will have seen my once huge optimistic feelings decline to where I am now... moving to the plentiful shores of the Mac.
Its professional, commercial and popular enough and it isnt a Windows PC. I'm happy.
-
@legion
Try to have an original thought of your own. Thinking is so important.
Seriously, if that's meant to be an example of a comment that needs moderation, perhaps you're getting too used to places like AW.net.
While my comment was specific to AmigaOS4/AmigaOne (because that's what this thread is about), it does in fact apply nearly as much to MorphOS/Pegasos, except that the Pegasos is not quite as expensive.
If that's the sort of comment that deserves moderation, we're really beyond hope.
-
@ legion
Pegasos/morphOS is mediocre and expensive. The operating system is primitive and most likely relatively unstable
most likely unstable? Does this mean you haven't seen it for yourself? Then what use is your opinion?
I haven't seen MorphOS either, but I don't take to slagging it off.
-
bhoggett wrote:
If that's the sort of comment that deserves moderation, we're really beyond hope.
[Fable]
A man was walking along with an egg in a basket that was given to him for free.
On his way he stopped to show a friend.
To impress his friend he started telling him of how he was going to arrange to hatch this egg.
He got carried away in his ramblings ang went off on a tangent of how he would raise the chick to be a fine hen. The hen would lay many eggs half of which he would sell and half he would hatch to expand his business.
He said that he would buy a house with the money.
He would then get married to a fine woman.
They would have many children.
He began describing how his children would gather around him and ask him for money to buy sweets.
"When they will come running and shouting "Daddy! Daddy! Can I have some money??"
I will push them away and shout NO!"
With that he made a sudden swiping gesture with his hands and managed to drop the basket smashing the egg into many small bits.
[/Fable]
Moral:
Dreamers exist, they expect more than they should , but they have as much right to post as anyone else. , just smile and bear them. :-D
OS4 will be a fine Niche OS just like many others that exist. Nobody involved in the project is claiming that it will set the IT world alight.
Enthusiasm is an infectious bug, It has a strange effect on some people. ;-)
-
@mikeymike
Forget it. legion was aping my earlier comment about AmigaOS4 but inserting Pegasos/MorphOS instead.
The trouble is that he took the comment out of context and then applied his own deduction as to what it meant.
Yes, both MOS and AOS4 will most likely be relatively unstable when compared to either XP, Win2k or Linux (and probably MacOS X, though I have no experience of that whatsoever). It's a matter of legacy and design, not competence on the part of the programmers.
-
Thinking *is* important. And so is objectivity. The point of the plagiarism was to show that the latter quality is lacking concerning a great many people here, not necessarily you. It seems to run rampant with certain individuals here.
Mikeymike: I apologize for blatantly leading you on that one, but it *is* demonstrative of attitude around here lately. Slagging is only slagging if you happen to be on the side of the slaggin.
-
Getting back to the thread, the A1/OS4+ will only succeed if it is marketed effectively.
The average man in the street insn't an Amigan or a pc fan. He's basically computer illiterate and he'll buy whatever attracts his attention amongst all the contenders. He may be aware of Windows and he will have already accepted that computers are 'difficult'. That's where effective marketing should be targeted.
OS4 itself will not make the A1 the success everyone hopes for unless those responsible for the Amiga employ somebody (?) who can really sell this thing to Joe Public. He will buy anything that he believes will make life easier or simpler or more enjoyable. Plug the OS too much and you'll lose him at square one.
And to do that effectively means tv advertising more than anything else. Unfortunately, that's the Catch 22 the Amiga faces. It's expensive. Adverts in computer mags will never get the Amiga brand where it needs to be to achieve anything like the success many people hereabouts think it deserves.
Plug it and plug it and plug it....Amiga, made to make you smile.
Cheers,
JaX
-
It is my feeling that both AmigaOS and MorphOS will fail.
AROS would continue with a limited user base.
And UAE will carry on as long as there are people willing.
-
And to do that effectively means tv advertising more than anything else. Unfortunately, that's the Catch 22 the Amiga faces. It's expensive. Adverts in computer mags will never get the Amiga brand where it needs to be to achieve anything like the success many people hereabouts think it deserves.
Slightly off topic but I dont actually remember there being any ads on UK TV for the Amiga during its reign. I know there were some in the US. Were there any in the UK?
I would love the Amiga to reappear in high street shops as they once did under Escom. Sitting in the window running some killer app that grabs attention. So many times I remember seeing the boring old bog standard Workbench screen, how was that gonna generate interest.
I doubt that this will happen though.
-
Slightly off topic but I dont actually remember there being any ads on UK TV for the Amiga during its reign. I know there were some in the US. Were there any in the UK?
There were, but IIRC only around the time of the release of the A500.
-
Forgive me for replying too late to this, but i figured this topic was too stupid to give an ounce of time to. And my opinion hasnt changed, but my attitude has. Its borring, and im wasting time. Something needs to keep my occupied...
Basicly a silly comment for what you ment for it to be. If you had labeled the topic "why im going to buy AmigaOS" than i would have thought, yer, thats ok. But you've labled it "Why AmigaOS 4.0 is going to be successful…". Because of that, your comment is totaly wrong.
AmigaOS may have its good points, but Windows totaly blows it away with its avaliable software, features, hardware support, and just about every basic essential part of what an operating system is expected to have.
And most people who run windws dont want another OS. Some do, but those people are geeks like you and i. Most people arnt geeks and are completly happy with what they've got. Something easy to use, something to surf the web, do some emailing etc... Why switch to another OS if their can do that already? And on that note, theres really no decent AmigaOS browsers. There are browsers, but they're no where near what they need to be to fullfill someones every day needs. And thats only one example...
The thing is, if people that run windows, are going to swap, they're not going to go buy a ppc and buy AmigaOS on top of that. They'll stick with the hardware they have and learn linux... or buy an lindowsOS machine.
Maybe in the future AmigaOS will be very popular, but i dont see AmigaOS reaching the popularity (market share) of Apple (at its current state) for at least 5 years or more. Saying that, it may never reach it.
I like AmigaOS and i'd love to see it succeed. But both MorphOS and AmigaOS have got more chance of failing than succeeding. You may not like it, and i dont either, but its a fact. If AmigaOS has got anything go for it, its Hyperion for 1, and the increasing amount of people willing to try others OSes as 2. But still, thats not a lot, and AmigaOS is really going to have to come out with some earth shattering programs as killer apps...
I think the perfect apps could come in the form of Home appliance software and network solutions to other devices. This stuff is realitivly new and AmigaOS could make a shot at it! Inthe future maybe :).
-
nac wrote:
Slightly off topic but I dont actually remember there being any ads on UK TV for the Amiga during its reign. I know there were some in the US. Were there any in the UK?
I remember seeing ads for the CD32. Which I guess is a typical example of the way Commodore only seemed to market the Amiga as a low end games console.
I would love the Amiga to reappear in high street shops as they once did under Escom. Sitting in the window running some killer app that grabs attention.
Just so long as it isn't an old model at an expensive price, as was the case with the A1200/A4000 when Escom took over..
-
You also have to realise that this is 2003 and not 1987. Those hordes of people Amiga needs to attract to be successful spend most of their spare time watching tv or playing video games.
If it ain't on tv, it don't exist for a large proportion of our society.
Cheers,
JaX
-
If it ain't on tv, it don't exist for a large proportion of our society.
True, but for the audience you suggested (playing video games), computer mags would help.
-
@Rodney
Something easy to use, something to surf the web, do some emailing etc...
I agree with your basic conclusion, but because I'm bored this eve I have time to point out a flaw in your data. I could spend the next 3 days typing stories of how easy it is for the average joe to get their windows system trashed by virus, poor MS software or just stupidity. Windows might be easy to use, but not to maintain. It keeps an entire IT industry in business to keep it repaired and running. The old saying "It's great.... when it's working" I think applies. But then again that could be said about any OS. Cept for maybe my C64. Peeks and Pokes rule. :-)
Plaz
-
Morphos here is stable, fast, smooth and
runs tons of Amiga software fast.
All it needs is more good new software and lots
of positive users. Cmon PEG2!
-
Okay my turn to waste some time on a thread out of boredom.
reading thru these posts, I have humored myself with an anecdotal (sp.) thought
If I had the resources, I'd have mated this AmigaLite thing with a VIA C3 or sum such nanoITX into one (set-top-appliance) looking thing. Called it the 'parasite' , load it with winXp & AOS4, (refer to 'siamese' operation)
All in hopes of gradually and secretly shifting joe-end users softwares to the parasite half (by marketing the program specifically for the parasite half)...... but as Hogget says "I woke up"
parasite moniker alludes to the piggy-back nature of foreign object on/in mass-standard-oject (refer to movie ALIEN)
-
We all want the Amiga to succeed in one form or another. For years it has seemed the obvious way to go and other systems are slowly getting there.
But for all the knowledge in the Amiga community we find it hard to identify what the Amiga actually is.
Sentences like 'the AmigaOne/Pegasus runs hundreds of Amiga program' are humerous bordering on sad since it defines the new Amigas as allowing users to step back at least 5 years and run old software.
Then people point to the 'killer app' as if it must appear. Well it never appeared for Atari or Segas new hardware.
We cannot take the success for the Amiga for granted no matter how well intentioned.
I think we should be talking about how we now want to use Amigas, I mean what would be your the 'killer app'?
Valan
-
I could spend the next 3 days typing stories of how easy it is for the average joe to get their windows system trashed by virus, poor MS software or just stupidity.
AmigaOS is just an vunerable as Windows in terms of OS security. Maybe theres been between design decision that can prevent vertain attacks, but general i see no difference between the two.
AmigaOS doesnt get the severity of attackes that Windows based OSes do, but thats because of the small user base.
Also, Windows takes so much to maintaine because of its large software base. AmigaOS not got the amount of features windows has and it'll be a long time before it has.
And btw the reason i switched to x86 is because AmigaOS would constantly crash, and i'll admit, my win98 machine hardly ever crashes. Its solid.
Like everyone used to say, AmigaOS really insnt going to make it into our homes and offices. Its gunna need a killer app, like i talked about before.
Sure it could get a geek userbase, and eventualy over time it may pick up the odd newbie and grow and grow. Thats a slow process, and its likly to die before that happens.
And if your gunna start talking about viruses. If someone is that concerned about them, that they'd switch Oses, they'd go for linux because its much more secure. Basicly because of its user access. Viruses cant do a lot of damage unless their run by root. And since you should always be running in user mode unless you got something important to do, viruses wont take over your system.
the only virus on linux i've heard about have been only a little annoying! Linux and Windows beat AmigaOS in every direction, except maybe responsivness, but normal users dont even care about that, although it does make using a computer a lot easier. But all my family of novices know is that they like to use the software and only windows has what they wont! (that they know of) they're happy with what they've got!
-
@fatman2021
lol! Windows isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Windows 95, 98 etc yes ok, they were really really rubbish and they did crash a lot of the time, I believe AmigaOS 3.1 is still better than those versions!! but have you used XP? It's actually quite good! and I still use my Amiga though, because it's fun.
But it is actually possible to really like using Amigas, and not hate windows (XP) at the same time :-)
-
Phew!
I thought someone had bumped this thread up to troll. :-)
-
:-) oops, I just realised how old this thread was. 2003/10/5 was the last post?? I'm sure I'd seen it in the 'recent topics' list. oh well
-
LOL
This is the same thread from so many many years ago, I have to laff again.
Since I built my AMD Athlon 500 and started using W98, I have been a very happy computer user. Sure, there have been virus problems on occasion but, I have yet to loose any data. Unlike my Amiga, which lost years of artwork several times.
3.5 was suppose to be an improvement over 3.1. I gladly paid the price for roms ,OS and a new 4.3 harddrive, only to be completely frustrated with the constant HD checksum errors. Spent more time backing up data on a weekly basis than I did actually using the computer. Maybe I didn't do something proper during the OS installation. I still don't know. I'm sometimes afraid to fire up the 3000. Every time I expect partitions to disappear or that checksum error.
I'm sure that once I get the wrinkles ironed out I'll have "fun" with my Amigas again. Until then Windows has been very very good to me.
What would make AMiga os4 successful is if it were free.
Just my two cents.
-
Maybe your HD was DOA. Did you check it in other machines?
-
[color=660033]HEY-Y-Y-Y![/color]
(http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~vortexau/images5/fonz-OS4.jpg)
'Cuz its so-o-o-o-o cool, man!
-
and MorphOS depends to much on emulation to be a good operating system.
Depends on emulation? It only "depends on emulation" about as much as AmigaOS4 (if that exists) supposedly does.
And it is a good OS.
-
I think we are waaaaay overcomplicating the issue here.
Q1, why are we on amiga.org?
A1, cos we know more than the average guy in the street about computers nomatter wat our OS preference.
Q2, who buys the majority of computers?
A2, businesses putting PC's on USERS desktops
Q3, what do users want?
A3, point and click ease of use.
Q4, why to the general public buy PC's?
A4a, cos its what they have at work.
A4b, cos there is a shed load of software for them.
i mean, for example. look at WinXP. everything has been tailored so that the user doesn't have to think for themselves, just point and click, burn a CD, point and click, download some music, point and click... etc. etc.
thats why win(whatever) is so big. so it can provide all the services to a user no matter what they want to do, or what hardware is installed.
if OS4 can do that, integrated office tools (with microshaft compatability - Sun Star office anyone?), internet browser, e-mail, networking facilities, media player/encoder, cd burning software all tied INTO the OS. then it might start to get beyond the 10Mb or so here or there that we are used to.
i'm not sticking up for windows. but the win2k/xp platform has to be one of the most stable and robust desktop OS's out there.
sure sure Linux this and MacOS that. but you are relying on people actually being interested in the computers more than what they can do with them as they currently stand.
that and microsoft's licensing saying that every new PC must be supplied with a copy (installed?) of their operating system. kinda has the vendors in a strangle hold unless they are big enuff to write in their own bit of the contract.
the only way to breaking into the mainstream is either big budget advertising with machines on display in places like PCworld or Circuit City, and shop staff that are actually enthusiastic and trained on what these machines are. instead of "yeah the amiga's great for this and that, but you really want a PC"
or
finding a niche market like the Mac
just my 2pence/cents
-
iamaboringperson wrote:
and MorphOS depends to much on emulation to be a good operating system.
Depends on emulation? It only "depends on emulation" about as much as AmigaOS4 (if that exists) supposedly does.
I would say "MorpgOS depends too much on AmigaOS API to be a good operating system on itäs own merits."
So far the MorphOS is just a AmigaOS clone + some new features.
And it is a good OS.
I think that's true in several ways, just like AmigaOS3.x.
-
"AmigaOS 4.0 is going to be sussessful becouse Microsft Windows is a terrible operating system and that most people are so sick and tired of Windows and all the problems that comes along with using Windows."
Too many people depend too much on things that exist only for Windows.
And there are LOAD of alternatives beside AmigaOS.
I think OSX, Linux are the main alternatives for someone that is sick of using Windows.
If the "Amiga" name is familiar to the user, and Amiga SW base has grown enough, then the AmigaOS might become an option...
-
What would make AMiga os4 successful is if it were free.
What would make Amiga OS4 successful is if it were released!
But it is actually possible to really like using Amigas, and not hate windows (XP) at the same time
I'll second that. Glad someone was mature enough to say it.
-
@t3000
If you formated your harddrive with the directory cache setting, you might get errors. Just use plain FFS international. It might be a bad harddrive of course, but a lot of people (including me) have had checksum errors with directory cache and OS 3.5
-
Why OS 4.0 will be successful:
1) Amiga Inc. no longer owns the rights to it:
see: http://www.amiga.com/corporate/150304-amigaos_sale.shtml
2) Amiga Inc. No longer makes hardware for it
see: http://www.eyetech.co.uk
The OS might just last into another century now that it's not part of the Amiga Name..
3) AROS is Open Source and it's a nice replacement and it works on computers that you could have windows installed on aka 85-90% of the personal computer world..
4) The user base is still keeping the machine alive after all these years
5) There is still some decent software out there for it
6) You aren't required every few years to make an OS update to stay "compatible"
7) The platform has migrated accross chipsets
8) Because we still support it's existance..
9) It's not a Mac
10) Bill Gates had very little to do with it (okay Amiga BASIC) which went the way of the dinosaur.
-
If you ask any one that used Microsoft Windows then you would know that they don't like using it and that they would give anything to have a Microsoft Windows replacement.
I guess someone needs to be the 'Simon Cowell' of the group.
The reason most people don't like Windows is very different from why most Amigans don't like Windows.
Most people are not computer experts making commentary about the direction of computers or making astute observations about the future of human-computer interfaces.
Basically all most people are really saying is that computers are complicated and they are not.
Those same people wouldn't like Mac OS X, Linux, or Amiga OS, because they are all too complicated for them, and they make them feel stupid. Yes, they would like a new windows 'in theory'...but they don't want a new operating system 'in practice.'
Since Windows is the one OS, that they were forced to learn, at least partially understand, those people whose frustration you are counting on to switch platforms, would actually be the last people to ever switch platforms, they are going to clutch to their little bit of knowledge to the last.
its complicated...I know, but life is complicated. Ironically, the computer experts are the most likely to switch platforms...and those people, unfortunately, are expert and know when an OS has almost no features or advantages.
-
-
How many units of OS4 need to be sold to be successful?
If the majority of current Amiga enthusiasts buy it will it be enough?
I would be interested in knowing what numbers of sales would be required to determine if the Amiga One and Amiga OS4 is a success.
Is it successful merely if it makes Eyetech and Hyperion a profit capable of sustaining them? Is anyone capable of doing the math to calculate how much it actually costs to sustain those companies?
Or does success really mean that the Amiga platform has to break out into the general public and be bought by ordinary people?
One wonders if general market acceptance would merely be icing on the cake.
-
You know what?
Everyone here has some good points.
I personally think some sort of topographical user login system to mimic like Linux root login system would be fantastic, along with some built in firewall stuff for the TCP/IP stack (like XP) would keep the platfrom secure.
But hey, perhaps that's OS4 Server or OS4 MultiClient or something lol
Seriously, the only thing that's going to make OS4 a success is sales. If people buy it, for whatever reason, yes even just geeks, then we will get continued development. Why? well because it shows growth and growth to a company means success, but it needs to be continual growth.
Yoy see KMOS knows there are going to be sales. What it wants however is "continual" sales, hense upgrades or version releases to keep cash flowing. I hear things like "but how much is enough" and "What's it take to cover expenses"
Every serious company knows to expect hardship for the first release and should be prepared to take that hardship on. KMOS know they are not going to make millions to start, it will be gradual and may run a loss Vs development for a little while. That said, what they DO want is that gradual uptake of their product. Yes, even if it's going to be a geek OS of choice, just as long as it looks like it will continue to grow and interest more and more geeks. Kinda sounds like Linux.
A very good friend of mine here in AUS also used to be the president of the Linux dev of Aus. I remember him showing me the first steps of Linux and his compiled hacks for drivers he used to write to run it on networks etc....
It was very much so a geek OS. If you couldn't code, it wasn't for you. But time passes and it's slowly making in-roads into the masses and starting to become an accepcted alternative to the WinTel monopoly.
So how many users is growth?? what would be acceptable?
Go and buy it when it's released. That is growth. See if anyone else would be interested in it, ask them to have a look for themselves.
Even selling just one copy increases the userbase. the more single user licenses that sell, eventually that 1 becomes 10, then 100 and then well others look at it cause if it's good for 100, there may just be something worth investigating.
I think people are excited about another alternative. Linux is very hard to use even now without learning the intracasies of scripting, Window?? Well know one bloody knows what that beast is doing ever. You can spend 1000s of $$ taking courses to work out why you need to program certain ways, but the beast is an unknown and not everyone has $M "ways of doing things" in mind.
The OS does have the potential for success, it will require support, esp from the company, but that will only come if building interest can be seen.
Let's just hope that this is the case.
-
T3000 wrote:
Since I built my AMD Athlon 500 and started using W98, I have been a very happy computer user. Sure, there have been virus problems on occasion but, I have yet to loose any data. Unlike my Amiga, which lost years of artwork several times.
Just to offer my experiences in comparison:
Windows 98 is responsible for my worst ever data loss. One day, Scandisk decided that there were errors on my hard disk and decided it would "fix" them. As a result, my machine wouldn't boot, and everything on the Windows partition was destroyed. With some help from some friends, I booted into my Linux partition and wrote a program to scan the hard disk at a low level, and pick out bits which looked like source code. As a result I was able to save things like my University coursework, and the source code to NewsCoaster (I had backups on floppy, but they were several weeks old).
I then was luckily able to borrow a hard disk to install Windows onto (unlike AmigaOS, you can't boot into the OS without installing onto harddisk, which risks overwriting data), and ran a recovery program (a trial version which meant I had to rescan everytime I'd recovered 3 files - unlike the Amiga, there doesn't appear to be anything for free on Windows) to recover some more stuff. But an awful lot of my data was lost.
The worse I experienced on the Amiga was occasional disk invalidations, which the OS automatically fixed if you left it a few minutes. The only data loss was due to using floppies (which seem to be at least as unreliable on PCs).
The point being, the Amiga isn't necessarily worse than Windows in this respect - and indeed, the Amiga has some definite advantages (eg, being able to run recovery programs without reinstalling the OS to disk).
What would make AMiga os4 successful is if it were free.
Given that the majority of the cost for most ppl is buying a new PPC computer, I doubt that would make much difference IMO.
-
SHADES wrote:
See if anyone else would be interested in it, ask them to have a look for themselves.
Attracting potential new users isn`t the hard bit, it`s converting them into actual users that`s going to be hard.
If someone is on the lookout for a computer, they can just wander into PC World and play about with the latest demo models, or go to an Mac shop and drool over a titanium powerbook, and at the end of the day decide what they like and what to buy.
But how are they gonna test out OS4 and the Amiga One?
Considering an A1 motherboard & CPU is over £600( or a pre built system at £1000 without monitor) it`s gonna take more than a good review and a fancy website to get non-amiga users to risk buying something they haven`t tried.
The new owners of the OS need be professional about it,proper advertising and marketing, but also to cut a deal with a couple of major stores to have demo models running.
It`s no good getting their attention, and then tell them to go a visit an amiga club meeting one evening to try it out cos they`ll just go and buy a PC or Mac instead.
-
ksk wrote:
I would say "MorpgOS depends too much on AmigaOS API to be a good operating system on itäs own merits."
So far the MorphOS is just a AmigaOS clone + some new features.
Well, it's an AmigaOS 3.x clone, with some new features. Is this different from what AmigaOS 4 is intended to be?
When AmigaOS 4 is released, we can judge how these "new features" of each compare, but the basic description fits both, surely.
I could see this point if MorphOS was only ever intending to be a clone of AmigaOS without adding anything new - thus you could say it's depending on AmigaOS too much, and is only going to be following behind it. But as you say yourself, this isn't true.
-
Why "AmigaOS 4.0" is NOT going to be successful (a non exhaustive list)
a) It doesn't exist
b) The terron board (or, more specifically, the Aticia-S chipset) is bugged
c) If nobody can get a copy, it will never succeed
d) MorphOS does exactly what AmigaOS 4.0 was ment to do - why not use that instead?
e) MorphOS EXISTS!
f) People can easily find Linux - for free - and run it on much CHEAPER hardware!
Thankyou for you attention :)
-
Please don't feed the troll.
If there is anyone higher in the food chain that the troll, I have no problem with you eating him though.
I'll even supply the tomato sauce.
Don't leave any left-overs in the fridge though.
This may seem a radical new direction in Amiga.org management to some, but believe me, it's for the greater good.
And if anyone is wondering, moderators aren't higher in the food chain than trolls. We do pest extermination though. We're quite humanitarian about it though.
If anyone else is wondering at this point whether I am really bored, they could be right.
Don't feed the troll. Thank you for listening.
:smack: :python:
-
iamaboringperson wrote:
Why "AmigaOS 4.0" is NOT going to be successful (a non exhaustive list)
a) It doesn't exist
b) The terron board (or, more specifically, the Aticia-S chipset) is bugged
c) If nobody can get a copy, it will never succeed
d) MorphOS does exactly what AmigaOS 4.0 was ment to do - why not use that instead?
e) MorphOS EXISTS!
f) People can easily find Linux - for free - and run it on much CHEAPER hardware!
Thankyou for you attention :)
Why are you MorphOS/Peg guys so defensive and nasty. So what if AmigaOS 4 isnt out yet, whats it to you? We are looking forward to the eventual release of AmigaOS4 even if its another 3 months. Please leave us with our dream and stop trying to spoil it.
It will be out soon! There was also a time when MorphOS wasnt out yet, I bet people were saying the same things to you while you were waiting fo MorphOS!
-
And if anyone is wondering, moderators aren't higher in the food chain than trolls. We do pest extermination though. We're quite humanitarian about it though
:lol:
As for the troll thing, will obey! Won't be replying to this sort of nonsense anymore... :)
-
mikeymike wrote:
We do pest extermination though. We're quite humanitarian about it though.
And that`s why you`re an Amiga.org moderator and I`m not :evilgrin:
-
BigBenAussie wrote:
How many units of OS4 need to be sold to be successful?
If the majority of current Amiga enthusiasts buy it will it be enough?
I would be interested in knowing what numbers of sales would be required to determine if the Amiga One and Amiga OS4 is a success.
Is it successful merely if it makes Eyetech and Hyperion a profit capable of sustaining them? Is anyone capable of doing the math to calculate how much it actually costs to sustain those companies?
Or does success really mean that the Amiga platform has to break out into the general public and be bought by ordinary people?
One wonders if general market acceptance would merely be icing on the cake.
I don't see the current owners (KMOS) making much, if anything, from AOS4.
Why? because most people that are waiting for it are getting it for free with an A1 or a coupon (or both), or the SDK. I almost think that it's going to cost more to send out $50 coupon rebates to the ~1300 people than they'll even collect in sales.
(Although that's Amiga Inc's responsibility, unfortunately)
-
@Doobrey
>> If someone is on the lookout for a computer, they can just wander into PC World and play about with the latest demo models, or go to an Mac shop and drool over a titanium powerbook, and at the end of the day decide what they like and what to buy.
I dissagree. How many people go into a store and buy a Linux PC?
Linux is making quite a storm in the IT world yet it's still not a REAL store option. Just goes to show how a good idea with real support can move past the comercial marketing machine. That being said, AMIGA OS is harldy "open" so this is going to have to be handeled differently.
Still it shows that it can be done! that's the good thing :))
-
grumble grumble yeah yeah open source is great... for the more geeky among us.
I'm not knocking it, its home coders that have supported the miggy through thick and thin for the last 10 years near enuff.
But! Joe public just wants it to swtich on and work and do what they want it to do. no compiling, no scripting, no fuss, no messing, just does the job simply and easily. the kinda of computer use that would frustrate about 95% of the people on this forum. as they arn't really getting deep into the system and figuring out why it does what it does.
these are the kind of people that plugging in a CDrom drive and it working is "magic". unfortunatly, that "magic" is wearing off, and in some places, IT staff are considered about the same level as stationary supplies. vital and needed, but like "janitors / housekeepers" for computers.
anyway. OS4 is definatly for the geeky element, and i'll be buying my copy or two. and i seem to recall OS5 sitting on top of a Hardware abstraction layer making it multiplatform (x86 anyone?). just like NT was supposed to be, (MIPS, PPC, etc etc.) but oh look, the dominant platform is x86 so microsoft dropped support for everything else like an unwanted toy.
i think IF OS4 gets off the ground and makes it a viable business propersition, and IF OS5 is then developed, the marketplace will be slightly more varied with regard to devices, handhelds, mobile phones, set-top boxes, blah blah blah, and it is true cross platform to the dominant system, then it might start to have some sway. but it'll be a long, hard and expensive road....
all the peg/morph/OS4 infighting is taking support away from the companies and people that are running on a shoe string budget and trying to keep it together.
i'm just amazed that everything has held together as well as it has this far....
anyway. everyone is different. at least there are alternative OS's for people to play with if they are so inclined.
-
SHADES wrote:
@Doobrey
I dissagree. How many people go into a store and buy a Linux PC?
People can download Linux for free and run it out on almost any hardware they currently own. If they decide they don`t like Linux, they can always go back to Windows.
Apart from the user groups,potential new OS4 users have no way of testing it out without spending the equivelent cost of 2 budget PC`s.
Imagine it was a car, one that cost almost twice as much as the average car. You`re thinking about buying one,but you`re not sure,so you go to find out more but can`t even find a dealer. When you finally get in touch with the company and ask to arrange a test drive, how would you feel if they just said "Er, find a bloke down the pub who has one and try his..", would that inspire you to buy from them, or would you look at another brand?