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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => General Internet News => Topic started by: Argo on January 27, 2003, 03:54:45 AM
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There has been some interest of last on some Amiga lists of Kazaa and other files sharing networks. Here is an article (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.02/kazaa.html) from Wired.com that may be of interest.
"The servers are in Denmark. The software is in Estonia. The domain is registered Down Under, the corporation on a tiny island in the South Pacific. The users - 60 million of them - are everywhere around the world. The next Napster? Think bigger. And pity the poor copyright cops trying to pull the plug."
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Im a man of double standards. Kazaa and all its piracy is good. Pirating amiga software isnt good, and thankfully I have found none on it (I look for amiga warez to report the peeps to AINC).
But I like my 30GB+ divx collection, my 20gb MP3 collection, my 30gb warez collection.
Go Kazaa - you can beat em!!!!!!
Hil Hitler!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Okay only joking about the hitler part.
:-D :-D :-D
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I think that it's spelled heil...
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@ createcoms
Im a man of double standards. Kazaa and all its piracy is good. Pirating amiga software isnt good, and thankfully I have found none on it (I look for amiga warez to report the peeps to AINC).
But I like my 30GB+ divx collection, my 20gb MP3 collection, my 30gb warez collection.
ok, I think you are a complete moron, sorry, but to sit there and say that it is ok to steal from the movie industry, the music industry and to collect warez (PC technobabble for softeware) is ok for as long as its not Amiga warez, other wise you will report them to AINC is just down right stupid, and not for nothing, but if you are stealing from the movie/music/software industries, and admit to it like you did, then that leads me to think that you are also doing it to Amiga software too, and your just playing like you have this "I'm Holyer than thou" attitude just because you SAY you dont pirate Amiga software.
In short, I think you talking through you ass, sorry pal but I am calling it as I see it. And that goes the same for anybody that says the same as you.
I will tell you, if there is a song I want, if there is a movie I want, if there is PC software I want regardless if its PC or Amiga, and there is a way I can get it for nothing,... ...I AM GETTING IT!
so please go talk that Amiga reporting crap to some one else!
by the way, there are no Amiga warez on kazaa because what is out there for Amiga is all crap that nobody wants, or can get through Aminet
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I am not against piracy of overpriced products, specially if most of the profit of selling that product does not go to the author. That happens a lot with books and records (specially music cds, they are overpriced in spain)
I am not against piracy of products you aren't going to use. For example, many peecee users have Maya copies but it doesn't matter because they never use it, and they don't get any profit of it. That doesn't harm developers because that kind of users aren't going to buy that package anyway. That probably may benefit them in the long run because some people may find it interesting and decide to study 3D design and if they go on sometime in the future they may buy it to use it comercially and earn money
I am against piracy if someone makes money of it, for example I don't like the fact of selling pirated copies of anything (Music, VideoGames, etc...) people who buy this are potential buyers ready to spend some money, but the problem is that someone that is not the real author is winning money and the real author is not seeing a single cent of it.
For example, I don't mind paying for cheap cds done by local (or small) music bands, they are cheap and almost all money goes to the real authors, probably a higher percentage than the money that goes to big music bands.
I prefer going to concerts of big bands than buyibg its expensive records.
Now think also that many people seem to collect divx and mp3, sometimes they don't even watch or listen to them, they are collect-maniacs.
For example I don't agree with pirating shareware, because most of the times you can try it if you want, it's quite cheap and the author it's usually someone like you, a student without job.
I pay for what I use. When Amithlon was released I bought it even watching the pirate versions in everywhere and having access to these versions because I knew that I was going to use it. The same with AmigaOS 3.9 etc... I don't care if you have 100000 pirate cds as long as you pay for what you really use or really want. Some friends of mine have bought movie DVDs after having the movie in divX because they really liked the movie. I've done that also with some music cds (even due to the high price -sigh-) I don't have DVD and almost never go out to see movies.
I'm not holyer than anyone, that's just what I think about it. The big movie and music studios earn much more money than the real authors and times are changing. If the sold DVDs 4 times cheaper they would sell 8 times more. Piracy on the Amiga is specially dangerous due to the small market, if you pirate something for pc it's not as harmful to the creators of the product as if you do this with an Amiga product. People left who is now using Amigas know how dangerous it is.
And what createcoms has said has sense for me. If I want two products and one is for peecee and the other for Amiga I will probably spend money in the Amiga product.
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While I am against piracy, I am not against Kazaa. IMO it is the responsability of the user not to download or spread pirated software and other warez.
This is unlike gun control, nobody is getting killed by providing easy to use file-sharing tools.
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@Crumb
I am not against piracy of products you aren't going to use. For example, many peecee users have Maya copies but it doesn't matter because they never use it, and they don't get any profit of it. That doesn't harm developers because that kind of users aren't going to buy that package anyway. That probably may benefit them in the long run because some people may find it interesting and decide to study 3D design and if they go on sometime in the future they may buy it to use it comercially and earn money
umm... ...so then its ok to download a pirate version of lightwave 5.0 for the Amiga for as long as I may decide sometime in the future to study 3D design then purchase (about $1600) and use Lightwave 5.0 commercially?
oh waite, no, NOT THE AMIGA VERSION, the PC VERSION right?
Its amazing... ....Crooks with a Conscience :roll:
Hypocrites
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@createcoms
Piracy is wrong on any computer platform and on any medium.
If I understand you correctly, I think you're saying that piracy is acceptable on the PC but not on the Amiga because of the massive size difference in the markets. This arguement has never and will never hold water.
I remember people using a similar defense in the late 80s/early 90s when copying Amiga software, citing the size of the Commodore empire as a license to copy at will. Regardless of a company's strength, piracy is theft. It advocates a policy of "I take what I want", a policy which sadly is all too prelavent these days. We want everything and we want it five minutes ago.
If you want a game/application/CD/movie just pay for it. If you think it's too expensive or you can't afford it, go without. Be adult about it.
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I just wish that they would stop bullsh!ting, you cant tell me that people who pirate every type of media out there make a conscience decision to not pirate Amiga software, sorry, but I know better.
Then on top of it all tell me you search the web looking for pirate amiga warez to report to Ainc, lets see now, do you report to Ainc all the Amiga warez you see befor or after you finish downloading that divx copy of Terminator 2, or the Newest Metallica MP3, or that copy of Maya?
:roll: :roll: :roll:
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Altnet + Broadband + cheap price = new opportunities.
It may break the existing power of motion and music distributors.
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umm... ...so then its ok to download a pirate version of lightwave 5.0 for the Amiga for as long as I may decide sometime in the future to study 3D design then purchase (about $1600) and use Lightwave 5.0 commercially?
Lightwave 5 is overpriced, I don't care if you have a pirate copy for Amiga or peecee as long as you don't make profit of it or use it professionaly.
Have you read what I have written? Many people have pirated copies of lightwave and other stuff but it doesn't matter (Amiga or PC) because most of them don't use it. Re-read my post ;)
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Hi
I just wish that they would stop bullsh!ting, you cant tell me that people who pirate every type of media out there make a conscience decision to not pirate Amiga software, sorry, but I know better.
Very true, that really sums up what I think too.
Piracy is wrong, if its music, software or anything, if you use it you have to pay for it even if its really expensive if its the only software which will do it then pay for it, otherwise go for a cheaper option!
I have no pirated software / music on any platform (PC or Amiga) and I have a lot of software.
(PS: I like seeing people stand up agains piracy, Im nice and proud at the moment ;-)
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Not everything is black or white, you can still be against Amiga Piracy and use PC warez...
If we are going to talk about how bad is to 'steal' software, movies, music I hope you are prepared to discuss how overpriced cost they really are… it seems some of you aren’t tired or don’t care to be ripped off by big corporations. Big software houses already have their income, I’m not going to buy their software to learn how to use them, Amiga software on the other hand is another case because they are in the same boat as I, supporting them is supporting myself, my ideas how an OS should be, and despite not having a great user base you don’t see the ridiculous prices you get on Windows/Mac world.
IMNSHO, as long as you don’t make a profit with the software you can have a play with it… in the long run it would turn in more income to the company, look at photoshop, autocad… just to name a few, many have it illegal, but if they start to get serious about it they will have to buy it…
The medium becomes cheaper, the content remains the same price, something have to be wrong. Years ago you had to pay for a megadrive cartridge 60€, nowdays you pay the same for a cd game or dvd, despite being a lot cheaper to make, their greed is never enough, so don’t expect the prices to go down in the next years…
Untill then, I will continue to see some divx, rip to mp3 some friends cds, and using some PC warez until the day I earn money through their use… as simply as that, you do all what your consciousness tell you, I’ll do the same…
pixie- writing from a paradise called Portugal
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I download tons of mp3's, and if I like what I hear I'll buy the Album. I believe loads of underground artists are making some money and getting a little more fame thanks to the mp3 share community.
When it comes to movies I couldn't care less, if movies wasn't released ages earlier in the USA I would probably go to the cinemas more often but when I can download a DVD Rip of a movie I want to see a month earlier than it's shown on the cinemas here in Sweden, it often ends that way.
And when it comes to Warez, I haven't paid a Dime for the Windows versions I'm using at home, and I have a Flash cart for my GBA, but I still try to support the software which I think deserves it, and have promised myself to buy the software I'm using for my AmigaOne, if I ever can afford one.
And sorry if my english isn't the best :-o
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Going after Kazaa is rediculous.
It's licence agreement frees them from blame if someone abuses their service.
MP3s are generally a good thing as it's an easy way to discover new music.
If I find some music that I like then I'll generally buy it. Nine times of ten, MP3s sounds like ####!
If I don't like it, well then I delete the file.
I got better use for my hard drive space than bad MP3s... :-)
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I have no copied or ilegal amiga software but i do have pc stuff ive bought a lot of pc software only to find its crap or full of bugs wich need patches .beside whats the point of having broadband if you just surf the net.Anyway i have adobe photoshop6 on pc and i hate it so thats why i bought photogenics at £70.00 and arteffect wich cost £40.00
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I hope Kazaa somehow does get shutdown. Amiga clients may be in development and once they have been released, Amiga software will start appearing on there. This is a bad thing, right now amiga warez is only available to people who know where too look.
If Kazaa is available on the amiga, the average user will have easy access to warez. Bad thing if you ask me.
Frankly, some of the excuses here remind me of the old thieves excuse: "Me nicking stuff doesn`t hurt anybody, they all have insurance".
Its not as simple as that.
People say it wont hurt the big industry because they have millions. But people forget that for every song you download, theres probably another thousand people doing the same. So prices go up and companys have to develop annoying copy protection measures.
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I have to say that people complain about the reason Kazaa etc exsist is because of the price of CD's, videos and the like. "Why should I pay all that money for that CD?". If you think it is a rip off then DON'T BUY IT!! If people stopped buying the things then the industries would have to sit up and listen.
By downloading it you are giving them a reason to hike up prices even more in an attempt to "cover thier costs". I dislike piracy in any form, but I can't say that I have never done it. The only time I would consider it is when you have to have something in order to use an everyday appliance, and it is well over priced (read Microsoft and Windows there, oh and MS Office too).
In my defence I have always brought all my computer games and all my MP3s (bar one or two that I can't find anyother way) are from CDs which I own.
I do agree that the entertainment industries have brought this down on themselves, but are we (the consumer) just as much to blame?
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I don't know about the piracy of music or movies but kazaa provides at least one essential service: the distribution of PORN! It's amazing what you can find on Kazaa! :-)
Although I admit I have a few mp3's off Kazaa I'm not a fan of mp3's in general because I'm a bit of a snob and like to listen to my music on my high-end system without the thought of all that lossy compression going on... which basically means you could count the number of mp3's I "stole" on your fingers.
From a moral point of view, well, I like to think that I have no morals, however I do find a particular value in buying the things that I like. I think that value is that people who steel look cheap and I don't like to look cheap. Weird but true.
- Mike
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RIGHT!!
People are bitchin' about people comin' up with crappy excuses, so fine then...
I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE COMPANIES! IT'S THERE, IT'S FREE, I'LL TAKE IT!
Hope your flamin' happy now! :-x
Human conscience is a complex thing. In everyones mind there is, if you like, THE LAW, and 'the law'.
THE LAW is the things that we know full well are blatently morally wrong and we perceive as 'evil if you will. Like, for most people, murder, rape, etc
'the law' are the things which although illegal, we do not perceive as morally wrong or evil. Like borrowing a CD off a mate, listenin to it, liking it and thinkin "damn, no cash at the mo, gonna have to wait ages to get this" but then popping it in your CD burner and running of a copy with the thought "ah, it's only 1 copy, who's it gonna hurt". Doesn't necessarily make it any more legal, but hey, thats how humans work, so deal with it!
To be quite frank, I don't want Kazaa shut down. It has free stuff, I like free stuff. (hope you whingers are happy. Oh and in case you hadn't guessed, yes I have a grudge against you)
Kazaa has advantages. I can dump a load of savegames there, and all my mates can download, saves me firing off 5-10 e-mails.
The reason with overpriced software, etc stands in my opinion. People say well don't buy it from the overpricing companies then. What the hell! They *ALL* overprice, so what are we supposed to do?
But anyway, i've let off some steam, and fel better. Thankyou for listening, all flames welcome, have a nice day :-)
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@WarPiper
Its faggots like yourself that put me off continued development of PCI card drivers and amiga software design. Im a developer and I pirate PC software because - like I said, Im a man of double standards which means that I want to destroy the PC software industry and build up/protect the amiga one.
To start making it personal by referring to my anatomy - especially when you dont know about my health issues shows you fail to consider what comes out OF YOUR TRAP.
And because Im such an asshole I should now include code in my software that formats the RDB if the user ever posts under the name Warpipe. Now if you are so lame to not see the sarcasm then I hope like hell you leave the community because its self loving ####wits like yourself which are the REAL destroyers of our world.
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I agree that it is the reponsibility of the user to NOT use pirated software, and the while the existence of programs like Kazaa (and DeCSS, etc.) make pirating far easier and in some cases, simply possible, the world is better off for having them than not.
For example, when music CDs came out in the 80s record companies reaped significant profits off them, the margin on those things (especially now since the plants were paid for many years ago, I'm sure) has to be at least 1000%, even after paying the rock star and production costs (likely equal to or less than what McD's pays to make paper cups for Coke).
What is interesting now is watching the record companies attempt to protect their exorbitant profiteering, just like Micro$oft, just like pharmaceutical companies - in short, if there's a way to make serious money, there's a way to funnel it to politicians to preserve the status quo, no? :)
Programs like DeCSS and Kazaa force them to consider alternatives that they otherwise would ignore, to the detriment of the consumer. And ideally (remains to be seen) it makes politicians take the side of the little guy when they see the greed behind such business practices.
kevin orme
amiga university
www.amigau.com
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here is the best point i can come up with why everyone is like this:
1 Extra copy SOLD on AMIGA = IMPORTANT
1 Extra Copy Pirated on PC = Who will notice it?
anyway i must share with you that the PC area aint like it once was,
the stats for norway are riddiculous low compared to ... 2 years ago (amounts of sold software)
The Mac Area is the same as it has been since 1995, LOW!
the Amiga market in norway , hmmm is there any?? we have 1 shop and they only ORDER it if we order it first (ie its cheaper if we buy directly) , 4 years ago the market was little , 10 years ago it was HUMONGOUS!
conclusion..., even tou some formats gain more and more users they still sell worser and still has to OVERPRICE titles but i know why they overprice, as they are greedy and too many people needs money out of it.
I still remeber that the cd32 offered REALLY cheap games (before it was launched) as it was on a cd medium and didnt require big boxes etc, well what happened??
Alot of people on PC Pirate, and they dont buy if they like either and besides there is like millions of demos out there so infact if it was the intention to buy before u try THEN GET THE DAMN demos,
people still make games that is unplayable if you pirate (ut2003 etc) but thats only something the developer thinks! or???
and to thoose who have an excuse of beeing collector maniacs, well HAH! ever considered what a collector maniac does?? 1. he encourage others to do the same. 2. he puts out lists of the dats so that other can help him or join in. a good example here is TOSEC , and tosec have stuff in their dats which are NEW and they dont even care, impossible to find the files?? lol ,check any TOSEC channel or kazaa....AAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
to hell with double morals , KILL IT ALL IF YOU LIKE !! and for godsake support what you like (ie if its PC or AMIGA or PS2 or GC or DC or GBA or MAC ,as long as you LIKE it then BUY IT!
sorry...i am kinda upset here but 1 thing is for sure people with no money dont buy, and 99% of the people who is pirates is broke people or collector maniacs.
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Referring back to the article itself, I couldn't agree more with the notion that the kneejerk reaction against Kazaa and the technology behind it is purely based on fear.
The business model that these large scale industries are based on works by having a chokehold on the 'product' right from it's conception through to any possible use the customer might make of said product.
This goes up in smoke when the product ceases to be a neat physical package and becomes a large glob of binary freely distributable through a variety of means (means which have been relentlessly flogged to the public by big business - "you simply must have a PC with CD burner, you must be internet ready.....").
When the RIAA and it's associates should be wising up to the possibilities of a more dynamic, freeform environment to operate in, they are instead throwing money into the process of doing the only thing it knows how to do - bury it's rivals by force of high marketing spend (which won't work because there is no hiding the fact that they are providing an increasingly obsolete service) or by litigation. The idea of the litigation approach has served them well in the past as it can not only take out a 'ringleader' but will send a warning to others - that is the useful thing about legal precedents.
If I can close my ramble with a recommendation, I would advise all to Neal Stephenson's 'In The Beginning Was The Command Line' which makes some interesting points about software licensing.
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@createcoms
Nice language and attitude you moron. :whack:
@ WarPiper
Agreed. ;-)
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Thats why he got banned from the NZ Amiga Users Mailing list! He tends to go phyco like that.
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@ createcoms
To start making it personal by referring to my anatomy - especially when you dont know about my health issues shows you fail to consider what comes out OF YOUR TRAP.
umm... ...so what part of you anatomy did I refer to that insulted your state of health? I know I said that I think your talking through your ass, but I did not mean literally!
Im a developer and I pirate PC software
Can you read what you type, really, what kind of developer are you that thinks its ok to steal any type of code/program/media
I want to destroy the PC software industry and build up/protect the amiga one.
1. Its never gonna happen
2. I guess your never gonna gain money from the pc platform
3. I guess you not much of a developer, but more of a hack
Its faggots like yourself that put me off continued development of PCI card drivers and amiga software design.
what? you dont think that anybody is going to de-Hex your code and probably steal or alter it, if you stop development for the amiga then what platform will you go to next, then what, it wont happen on that other platform?
if anyone is a faggot pal, its got to be you, I at least admit that I am a pirate, while you only admit that you are a selective pirate (humm, selective pirate even sounds kinda faggish)
I should now include code in my software that formats the RDB
watch what you say, some people wont even come close to a driver or any software if there is even a slight hint of possible corruption, that means wasted time, no money, and driver ends up on aminet
its self loving ####wits like yourself which are the REAL destroyers of our world.
Dont worry, I happen to think your in a world all of your own
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@ createcoms
Pirating amiga software isnt good, and thankfully I have found none on it (I look for amiga warez to report the peeps to AINC).
Umm... ...were you the type of kid that everybody use to beat up in school? (now thats getting personal)
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@createcoms:
(I look for amiga warez to report the peeps to AINC)
What to you report to AInc then?
"Oh look at this screenshot! 'Kazaaliteuser' is sharing a Kick 3.0 ROM!" ? ;-)
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@sbeehre
I got banned cuz I told every1 about Grahams exposure on national television about being a total lame arss computer store owner - and so he banned me out of spite.
Care to give me your address? My brother lives in hamilton and Id like to send him round to your house to BASH YOUR ####IN FACE IN
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@odin
I can trace users straight to their location, Im very good thats why Im a consultant for an emerging cyber-criminal group here in New Zealand
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@ createcoms
I can trace users straight to their location
...and what? you feel very special? there are hundreds of programs out there that do the same. ok ok, not on the amiga, but on the PC there is.
go steal one, try it out, if you like it, buy it like crumb says, hell, I am sure its ok.
Like I said your a Hack
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@ createcoms
This is what I see when I think of you
(http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/bib/nf/b/covers/wimp.jpg)
I think there is a 4 page story about Amiga software piracy starting on page 2
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Care to give me your address? My brother lives in hamilton and Id like to send him round to your house to BASH YOUR ####IN FACE IN
HeyheyHEY!!!
Take it easy man! there is no reason to throw threats around like that!
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@ createcom
Waaaa Waaaa..... ....I'm gonna get my big brother to beat you up, sniff sniff!
hehehe
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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@warpiper&createcoms:
Oh please! Go on! I love this! :-D.
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Shane you are the biggest tosser i think i've ever come accross :roflmao: how old are you? 5? You sound like those little kids in the sandpit saying im going to get my brother onto you cause you stole my car!! what a dick.
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sbeehre - if you were so sure of yourself you *would* give me your address or are you scared of the mounting list of people who have volunteered to teach you a lesson since I spoke to them of yourself and location?
warpiper - Im glad Ive given you a reason to exist, I really do feel touched and hope to repay the favour one day. Thanks a bunch - you are teh bomb.
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@ Createcoms
Sorry I only have three reasons to exist, and you are not one of them, in fact not you or anyone else can even hold a candle to them.
You may think that I get my rocks off by arguing with people like you, I don’t, really, as a matter of fact I much rather prefer to ignore a lot of statements that are made out of stupidity that tend to piss me off, but this one took the cake man.
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Kazaa and all its piracy is good. Pirating amiga software isnt good, and thankfully I have found none on it
No Amiga piracy on Kazaa LOL, you clearly are not using Kazaa properly, Amithlon, OS3.9, AF5 and others are available to download,
Reporting all the piracy places to Amiga inc will do nothing whatsoever apart from wasting their time.