Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Amiga Emulation => Topic started by: Wolfe on December 05, 2002, 08:30:41 AM
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The problem with Amithlon was that it was written to support the PC. Even if this fiasco comes to an end and Bernie gets justice. A huge problem still exists, it runs on PC's and the PC market is the biggest piracy ring in the world. So if Amithlon is continued it will be pirated like everything else in this community. Bernie should write software for OS4.
Dave
Peace will come to the Amiga community when only one remains! :-o
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Why does everybody talk about piracy here?
We all know it's a problem, and it effects every platform. Why will software running on OS4 be any different?
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Because McEwan's magic dongle will scare them
all away!!!
OK, sorry, I couldn't resist that one. ;-)
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Yes... the dongle (ROM code?)...
Well that will protect the OS (for a while), but it won't really do anything for the apps, will it?
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I dont belive that we should worry about piracy, when it comes to Amithlon. Have you tried searching for Amithlon using Kazaa, i have, and zero results came up. Why??? well maybe becuase the PC people dont want to ""weast"" time cracking the code. But if the Software is kopied anyway it's PC-pirates, it's Amiga-pirates. And they really want to crack the software, I dont really think that it matters if the software is writting for OS4 or the PC, they are gonna crack anyway.
By the way, does anyone know how much piracy there is in the amiga world???
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"By the way, does anyone know how much piracy there is in the amiga world???"
I'd say almost none, except when it comes to old games, but we could all discuss ad infinitum if geting a game that is not possible to get anywhere anymore is piracy...
But if there still exist software piracy in the Amiga world today.. why? Almost everything is kickass cheap when it comes to software.
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Haaaaaaaa!!!!!
Where did you get that imformation?
There is more piracy in the amiga camp than you can shake a stick at.
I'm talking brand new apps, at time of released.
The only reason that you people don't want the dongle, is because it will hurt your feelings if you can't download stolen software off of your pretty little filesharing programs.
Ahhhh.
Let me shed a tear.
Get a life, and get legal.
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"Where did you get that imformation?"
I made an assumption, not a statement.
"I'm talking brand new apps, at time of released."
Such as?
Do YOU use pirated software then? It sure sounds like you know where to get it from. :-P
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>I dont belive that we should worry about piracy, when it comes to
>Amithlon. Have you tried searching for Amithlon using Kazaa, i have,
>and zero results came up.
Well, on August 30th, the number of downloads of the latest contrib archive matched the number of AmigaOS XL copies sold.
During November, there were roughly 400 downloads of that archive. Even if we assume that September and October only matched the November levels, that's 1200 downloads more than copies of Amithlon sold.
*Someone* is making these downloads. It's quite likely those "someone"s actually have the product...
(Note: Any numbers quoted above are in terms of distinct IP numbers. Multiple downloads (or attempts) from the same IP are only counted once).
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"that's 1200 downloads more than copies of Amithlon sold."
Yikes! Who'd figure that an Amiga emulator would be so sought after... nowadays all we hear is "Amiga is dead" and still hundreds of people gets amithlon... weird. *and finds himself hating software piracy even more now*
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Yikes! Who'd figure that an Amiga emulator would be so sought after... nowadays all we hear is "Amiga is dead" and still hundreds of people gets amithlon...
I am in no way trying to justify piracy, but the people who would pirate Amithlon are the same people who would grab MAME and all the old game .roms.. Remember, there are no great Amiga games left by today's standards (ok, well I *can* think of a couple), but there are literally thousands of games that these same people grew up playing on the Amiga. Now that you can't get new Amigas and you really can't even find 99% of the games even by mail order, you begin to understand the problem.
With "abandonware" sites so prevalent, why are you surprised that someone would pirate Amithlon (or any other Amiga emulator which does the job)?
Wayne
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Because I see a vastly difference between Games and Applications. With Amithlon, you can't play the old games, unless you booted up UAE inside Amithlon. So WinUAE is the one to use when playing games. But with Amithlon...well, that's being used for resourcedemanding programs and development as I see it, not to play games. (simply said, WinUAE does the job better when it comes to games.)
So that's why I am suprised. .rom and .adf files containing games is not that serious software piracy in my eyes (and just like you I'm not justifying piracy) when it is games that you can not get hold of legally in any way. But pirating commercial software like Amithlon, StormC, Art Effect, Amiga Writer.. that kind of software, then it's true piracy.
Guess I thought the Amiga User Community to be more honest than it really is. :-(
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Guess I thought the Amiga User Community to be more honest than it really is.
Next to bad management (which some will argue is still the case today), software piracy is -- and always has been -- one of the top 3 causes of the Amiga's downfall.
Yes, it's debatable as to whether a 15 year old game you can no longer find legally since the company doesn't even exist can be considered piracy in the broadest sense of the word but the fact remains that software piracy kills.
Wayne
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Next to bad management (which some will argue is still the case today)
Was that a neutral way to express your feelings? :-)
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Was that a neutral way to express your feelings?
Let's call it "diplomatic", shall we?
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OK, bear with me here for a minute...
There's just as much piracy on the PC and the
consoles these days as there ever was on the
Amiga. Anyhing that is realeased on the PC (and
probably MAC too) can be had for free these
days. Same with MAME. I don't see any of our
local arcades going out of business, and CompUSA
is always busy when I'm in there. Any software
at Electronics Boutique is available free on the
internet, yet that store is always busy too.
Even the people I used to know who pirated always
bought the originals if the software was good. If it
wasn't, well it didn't ever get used. And give me
a break, remember the C64? There was just as much
piracy there, probably more, than on the Amiga, and
the C64 made it almost TEN YEARS despite being
horribly outdated. Granted, todays overall market
dynamics are much different, but for me it really
lessens the whole 'piracy killed the amiga' argument.
Sorry, but piracy has always existed on every platform.
Commodore died because they never advertised and had
wrecked business skills. And the fact that software
was still being produced at a steady rate almost
three years after the platform died shows me that
there was a decent market despite the pirates.
The idea that the Amiga users at the time were
somehow less honest/integrous overall than the
users of other platforms doesn't stand up to
philosophical evaluation, either.
And before Mountainmyst makes another one of his
lame ass 'we don't like A-Inc's dongle because we
are pirates' comments, I have thousands of dollars
invested into my CD collection, and easily that if
not more invested in to the software I've bought
over the years, so you can just shove it.
The reason why I don't like the dongle is
because A-Inc is restricting my hardware options
as a legal customer. I can only run OS4 on the
A-1. Their philosophy pisses me off, the pirates
will hack the OS to run on other systems anyway,
while people like me who want to buy OS4 and
run it on the Pegasos can't. They have gone out
of their way to make sure that MorphOS doesn't
run on it. They have gone out of their way to
selfishly restrict the hardware. It's a marketing
scam, and because of that I won't buy it. The
Pegasos people, on the other hand, have gone out
of their way to ENSURE that their OS will run on
multiple platforms (except of course the A-1,
becasue A-Inc went out of their way to ensure
that it wouldn't). And that's not being negative,
those are the facts, and no offence at all is meant
to those who have purchased the A-1; it's just
my personal opinion. One things for sure though, I'm
feeling better and better by the day for signing
that petition a while back.
Maybe I'm wasting my time here, but I'd REALLY like
to see Mountainmyst explain to me how A-Inc's dongle
will stop piracy, when the pirates will hack the OS
anyway. And why wanting to PURCHASE OS4 and run it on
the Pegasos makes me pirate. Can you do that? If you
want to keep dodging the issue that's fine, but you
should at least be able to back up your arguments if
you're going to attatch them to insults.
Peace in the East,
-D-
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@mountainmyst
your reasoning is pretty far off... some of us "myself included" want AOS on other then TeronCX boards... it isnt a matter of wanting to steal it... I'd pay MORE to have AOS on Pegasos then I would on TeronCX... I'm not looking to get off stealing their product ...and the community bieng as small as it is...isnt looking to either...considering the cost of the board and system to run AOS>..I dont think the small fee for a retail copy is what people are trying to avoid...(if there where a retail copy mind you).
I liked Amithlon and It's sad that bernie got screwed and everything went sad... I dont think worrying about a handful of pirates should stop progress...Alias Wavefront maya a multi-thousand dollar apps that gets pirated all the time... why dosent that company suffer?...because it stands on the merit of it's product and people choose to 'buy it' ...
I doubt anyone here is not guilty of first sampling an application before buying it... many people do that...and by in large companys only care about people stealing the product and making money from it...not from useing it as a learning tool ...because that develops a stronger market base... (people grow up learning your tools then get jobs useing them etc etc)
so in the end I think the IT industry as a whole is moving away from this 'dongle/rom' mentalitiy at least with applications... as for Amiga I think their rom/dongle issue will be their downfall as it will keep potential companys who want to build and sell A1's away because of the legal tangles of it..
I would say I only support MorphOS because their feelings on the issue more closely match mine...but the OS is in a shabby state right now...I hope it gets somewhere...at any rate thats that..
I think people should stop worrying abour piracy and worry more that nobody is going to see their product let alone buy it...since their putting an iron shackle and an expensive price on it.
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BTW:Nice to see you back, mips!:)
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sorry I missed you on IRC that day -D-
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No prob, I still need to register the program
and figure out how to use it; I wasn't sure if
I was even connected right, so I logged off
pretty quick.
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you should try XiRCON or other client if your using MIRC... I dont like MiRC.
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Thanks for the info.Unfortunately I'm stuck with
the Amiga clients...I only have a PC at work for
now. I'll check it out for later use though!