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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Software News => Topic started by: SilvrDrgn on December 13, 2002, 01:11:21 AM
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Posted here with Dr. Greg Perry's permission. Click the "Read More..." link to see the whole message.
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Thanks for the support, Guys! We do appreciate it.
Just one last comment on the OS4 issue.
There is no misunderstanding or lack of communication or any
such thing regarding Hyperion. It's simple.
They are in breach of the contract for non-payment of contract fees so
DOpus development in OS4 cannot proceed. We are quite a bit peeved that
they used the good name of DOpus and GPSoftware to promote their own
activities and then refused to honour the contract we signed in good
faith.
Btw: Don't cross post this comment in other lists without my permission.
__
Regards, Dr Greg Perry
GPSoftware, PO Box 570, Ashgrove, Qld Australia Ph/fax +617 33661402
Email: greg@gpsoft.com.au web: www.gpsoft.com.au
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It has been mentioned a couple of times on the A1 mailinglist that there was some problems between Hyperion and GPsoftware.
Would like to see Ben's comment to this mess... It's probably just a misunderstanding of some sort.
Anyone from Hyperion that would like to comment?
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NOOOOO!! I love DOpus! Though I think the functions of DOpus should be built into the OS, and not be an extra.
I hope this is all sorted out soon.
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Well, it was put down as a misunderstanding months ago when the problem first emerged after Jonathan Potter posted to c.s.a.misc. Hyperion then claimed it was merely an oversight.
That it is still an issue after all this time tends to indicate that the problem is a little more serious than that.
I wish things like this would stop happening to the Amiga industry. It's really bad for business and confidence.
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Ahem...
Hmmmm....
:-?
This is not a good time for people to hear suspicious things like this.
Greg Perry is an upstanding citizen in the Amiga community.
:-(
I think a response is very well in order.
What are you doing Hyperion?
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Without DOpus, AmigaOS4 cannot be on par with other operating systems! I cannot imagine doing without it. AmigaOS4 & AmigaOne will NOT be a step forward without it! I can run programs faster, but loose functionality? Some choice.
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OS4 does not need Directory Opus to look nice.
It does not need Directory Opus to be functional.
From what I've seen from screenshots, OS4 looks much better than I ever thought it would.
I'm just wondering what the heck is going on.
I hope that there is a good explaination for this.
Not because I want Directory Opus on my AmigaOne.
I just don't want the AmigaOne side to start acting like the Pegasos side.
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Well Mr Perry can go *()&%^&*(%^&*^%& himself. OS4 is sexy as ATM, I am enjoying the features added so far and feel its no loss.
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@ createcoms,
You're entitled to your opinion. Personally, I think he has done a great service to the Amiga community with DOpus. It definitely needs to be available for AmigaOS 4 !!
--
Michael
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what god name does GPSoft have?
the god name of stuffing their customers?
the god name of never fixing serious bugs in their software?
the god name of not holding promises themselves?
the god name of their rather stupid and crash-prone programs?
the god name of Greg Perry (that was lost for more than 5 years ago) ?
:roflmao:
this seems to be a case of GPSoft being out of cash
due to their 'great' success of Dopus 6 for windows (does almost all
what the microsoft explorer does only not as good or as fast)
(did more than 2 people actually buy that ####e?)
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@ trgse
> the god name of stuffing their customers?
That's FUD.
> the god name of never fixing serious bugs in their software?
And that's BS.
> the god name of not holding promises themselves?
Explain?
> the god name of their rather stupid and crash-prone programs?
Looks like your system is horribly kludged.
> the god name of Greg Perry (that was lost for more than 5 years ago) ?
And you pretend to know the guy.
> due to their 'great' success of Dopus 6 for windows
> (does almost all what the microsoft explorer does only not
> as good or as fast)
You never used Opus6, right?
> (did more than 2 people actually buy that ####e?)
With me, that should make 3, I guess.
> this seems to be a case of GPSoft being out of cash
Better than you being completely out of credibility.
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I am sorry that there is such a missunderstanding.
With that said, I would not be upset if there is no DOpus in OS4. I have use DOpus before. I am not using it now. I guess we all have our own style of using a computer. I would not miss DOpus on OS4. For those that use it and like I would hope that something will be worked out. Like it has been said, it is sad for the market to hear of kind of isusses. The part of missunderstanding worries me more that having DOpus. Here is hoping it gets clear up.
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Hopefully Dopus wont happen, and we'll lose all you wankers along with Perry. You seem to forget the history here..................
AOS V50 is da bomb - dopus would be degrading if applied.
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Without DOpus, AmigaOS4 cannot be on par with other operating systems!
Are you certain about that?
I cannot imagine doing without it. AmigaOS4 & AmigaOne will NOT be a step forward without it! I can run programs faster, but loose functionality? Some choice.
Are you referring to file associations for players/editors function?
They may have alternative solutions…
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This is *NOT* good. No, not good at all.
I am not pleased about this. Not much else to say, ATM.
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I may be off on this, but the way I see this is that Dopus maybe not be included with OS4. So, it that is the case, then for those who like Dopus, then install it on OS4. I do not see any reason why it would not run on OS4. So, it will still be there for those who like it.
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While it would be nice. I've never really been an fan of DOPUS.
Call me old school but workbench and a CLI window is all i need.
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While it would be nice. I've never really been an fan of DOPUS.
No, nor was I. I would occassionally load it up if I had move a lot of files around. Otherwise I never used it.
However this is not good publicity.
I'd like to see someone from Hyperion make a statement on this.
Ben? Anyone?
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Hyperion is a good company.
Dont be quick to judge this situation...............
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Why does there always have to be some people starting to
insult one of the parties in situations like this? It's extremely
childish you know, especially since I bet you you are basing
this "new opinion" of Dr Perry on this one single announcment. Stupid.
I didn't like/use Dopus much in the past, but I know many
did.
Let's hope everything is worked out. I must say though
that it's a little annoying that they go public about it like
this.
Hearing the Hyperion side (on AIS4 ML) I got the
impression that the mentions of trouble from the Dopus
team came right out of the blue for them when Dr. Perry
posted on Dopus ML (It was one of the Friedens that said
that though, don't know how soon they would know of such
things, it's more of a Ben Hermans-thing).
.
SlimJim
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Given this issue was raised several months ago as referred to here by Bill Hoggett, I fail to see how anyone could claim it "came out of the blue".
I have met Dr Perry at numerous events and have found him to be a most honourable and honest chap.
I have no idea on what the situation is but I don't doubt the sincerity of Dr Perry. I add my input here as I know one of the parties concerned.
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OK Very stupid question, but what the heck is DOpus? I why would I need it?
I mean I don't use an Amiga very much anymore, although I do use WinUAE for emails, word processing and some web browsing, but I get by very well without it and WinUAE with 3.9 feels very much the same as Windows.
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I remember he already claimed a few months back
that he hasn't got any money yet and that all the
emails he send to Hyperion were not answered. I
remember the sentence: "Anybody knows if
Hyperion still exists?"
Ben said back then that there is no problem and they
simply had not enough time IIRC.
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OK Very stupid question, but what the heck is DOpus? I why would I need it?
It's a file management tool that can be used as a workbench replacement. Very useful for, well, file management. :-)
WinUAE with 3.9 feels very much the same as Windows.
What!?!?!? I hope to fek it doesn't! :-?
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Given that everyone seems to focus on Hyperion so far, lets take a look at Mr Perry.
Im sorry but even back then Greg asked a stupid
question "do they still exist" knowing the answer
I mean it is not as if Australasia isnt connected
to the Internet, cannot access Hyperions mailing
lists, Amiga.org or ANN.
"I remember he already claimed a few months back
that he hasn't got any money yet and that all the
emails he send to Hyperion were not answered. I
remember the sentence: "Anybody knows if
Hyperion still exists?"
Ben said back then that there is no problem and they
simply had not enough time IIRC."
Greg is another example of yet another Amiga
based ( although most of the products are Windows
these days ) entreprenuer that likes to use the
"community" to exert pressure on other companies
and play the victim game. Playing to the gallery anyone?
Greg personally might be a decent enough chap but
his business methods stink and AmigaOS4 would
be well shot of DOpus and him in my view.
There is something quite fishy about this and I wouldnt take Gregs word on the matter.
this.respectForGregPerry--;
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>Im sorry but even back then Greg asked a stupid
>question "do they still exist" knowing the answer
Sorry but I don't understand you. I mean he hasn't
got the money yet and negotiations seem to have
stopped. Even back in May(?) Hyperion *confirmed*
that they haven't payed him yet. So this guy has all
rights to complain about that. Of course he could
also have just sued them for not paying as for
example every other employee would do if his
company doesn't pay him.
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@Wilse
When I said that 3.9 "feels" like Windows I mean in terms of drag and drop, moving files around etc.
Everyone seemd to be on that OS4 without "DOpus" will be rubbish, all I ment is that I use 3.9 the same way that I can use Windows. Not to say 3.9 is the same as Windows, because we all know it isn't ;-)
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"Sorry but I don't understand you."
Well read it again. Im sure it will come clear.
" I mean he hasn't
got the money yet and negotiations seem to have
stopped."
Did I say anything about that? No. I said that asking
if they still exist was clearly playing to the gallery and
was a stupid question.
" Even back in May(?) Hyperion *confirmed*
that they haven't payed him yet. So this guy has all
rights to complain about that. Of course he could
also have just sued them for not paying as for
example every other employee would do if his
company doesn't pay him. "
Or he could have picked up the frickin phone, faxed or got a
solicitor to send a warning letter with an invoice.
Going straight from email to public announcements on the web is strange practise. It is almost
as if he wants to cause maximum embarrassment and reduce
the potential to sort this out amicably to zero in BOTH cases
this and the LAST(May). Thats my problem with him, none
of the rest of it ( if he has a valid complaint or not ) is
any of our business.
His business methods stink. There is something political
about this.
I have had to negotiate with non payment debtors to me ( one and
a half million pounds anyone? )
and you NEVER do it this way. It is pointless showmanship
and is just frankly a juvenile way to manage a business
relationship.
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Or he could have picked up the frickin phone, faxed or got a solicitor to send a warning letter with an invoice.
I agree, I find it a shame that something like this is again being brought into public. It is very bad business practise. I mean how many credit card companies send out a global email (or a posting on a public forum) saying that they couldn't get payment from one of thier customers?
Tho this does seem to be the norm in the wonderful world of Amiga
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"Going straight from email to public announcements on the web is strange practise. It is almost
as if he wants to cause maximum embarrassment and reduce
the potential to sort this out amicably to zero in BOTH cases
this and the LAST(May). Thats my problem with him, none
of the rest of it ( if he has a valid complaint or not ) is
any of our business.
His business methods stink. There is something political
about this."
Hummm, I wasn't even thinking about why this has gone public? I do not know the answer, but as stated this is not a normal business method. In that regard it is sad to see this happen. I would hope that the two parties will talk to "each" other and maybe work out a good deal for both. Again I do not see the big deal of having Dopus shipped with OS4 as to installing it later. If I want to use Dopus on OS4 I will be able to do so. Maybe that is one of things that is brothering Perry, knowing that Dopus may not be part of OS4?
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>Again I do not see the big deal of having Dopus
>shipped with OS4 as to installing it later
What was said when the "deal" was announced,
was that they had to licence DOpus to make sure
that it actually runs on OS4 and its 68k emulation.
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@DaveP
Do you know what might have happened in between May and now ?
Maybe he was in the same position to Hyperion as Bernie claimed
to have been with H&P ?
Maybe he tried all "civil" ways to make them pay what he has been
promised ? Maybe maybe .....
But there is one thing that we can put as allmost certain fact:
While Ben promised to solve the situation AFAP in May, he still
hasn't paid till today.
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@DaveP
His business methods stink. There is something political about this.
Maybe. Then again, maybe Hyperion are really stalling on paying for DOpus until they are ready to actually do the port.
I will agree that going public with this sort of stuff isn't normal business practice, but then again this is the Amiga market, a place where normal business practice is to sweep all the dirt under the carpet and swear blind that it isn't there. A little openness isn't going to hurt anyone who doesn't deserve to get hurt.
I find your attack on Perry perplexing, and can only explain it by a desire to protect Hyperion's image at all costs.
Let's look at the facts for one minute:
Back on the 21st of May, Jonathan Potter asked the "Hyperion?" question (not Greg, you will notice). The same day James Sellman of Hyperion replied basically admitting that it was Hyperion's fault, and that
"rest assured that we'll work this out with GPSoft."
It is now the middle of December and it seems things weren't "worked out" after all. Call me cynical, but I'd be ready to place a large bet that Hyperion want to postpone paying until they have time to do the port and put it on the market.
You say the motivation must be political? Well, the big political coup would be to cancel the contract and sell it to Hyperion's rivals (who would, I'm sure, love that kind of publicity). AFAICT, that's not what Perry has said.
Look at it this way: Hyperion have a habit of preferring exclusive contracts. If they signed an excusive contract to port and sell PPC versions of DOpus, GPSoft can't accept any offers from anyone else to do the same. That's fine if everything goes smoothly, but it turns a bit sour if the contract isn't honoured and no money is forthcoming, specially if anyone else might be interested in porting to PPC...
There is no doubt that GPSoft should have taken all private measures to resolve the issue before going public, but we don't know that they haven't already done so, and maybe going public is the last chance saloon before terminating the contract altogether.
Thankfully, there is no product being sold on the market to make things worse. Otherwise, this story has all the alarming hallmarks of the Amiga Inc vs H&P saga.
:-(
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Why does it seem like every person that used to be part of the Amiga community are still trying to screw over whats left, I dunno now they've left do they feel sore and so feel the need to go do some stirring to make themselves feel better?
If Mr Perry feels the need to be so unprofessional and selfish then forget DOPUS.
I am just fed up of all the con-men and bad businesses that are trying to scavenge the last bit from the Amiga carcass, its like they've suddenly realised the Amiga market wasn't viable for the last 8 years and are now trying to get something back.
The last Amigans that are left are being conned, and tricked into playing the powergames of a few relatively shallow individuals who think they have nothing to stop them.
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@Bill
GP is responsible for the company and also company relationships
if JP did this without his permission and knowledge I would
be very surprised but even more saddenned by the complete
lack of competance shown in the Amiga market.
>I find your attack on Perry perplexing, and can only explain it by a desire to protect Hyperion's image at all costs.
No. I said it is none of my business if he has a real problem
with Hyperion or not. I personally do not care about
protecting Hyperions image but I am fed up with disputes
like this being thrown straight into the public domain instead
of following the standard methods.
It is like going straight
to maximum DEFCON. I also said he might have a legitimate complaint, I don't know and
Im not sure I care.
I abhor his method of handling the dispute to go from email
to the web is ludicrous. That smacks of the political. You are chosing
to interpret the word "political" as being playing the MOS vs
AOS game which I see no evidence for and I am surprised
that you think I was indicating he was point scoring for his
competitors.
But now I am repeating myself.
Exclusive contracts or not is irrelevant to MY issue with Greg's
business methods which I have explained above.
In fact I had the same issue with Bill, Ben and Fleecy over publically
beating their chests about the copyright issue - I said at the
time it was no way to conduct it "get into court" I said, issue
a writ I said.
"It is now the middle of December and it seems things weren't "worked out" after all. Call me cynical, but I'd be ready to place a large bet that Hyperion want to postpone paying until they have time to do the port and put it on the market."
Yep, that may be so.
"There is no doubt that GPSoft should have taken all private measures to resolve the issue before going public, but we don't know that they haven't already done so, and maybe going public is the last chance saloon before terminating the contract altogether."
The last chance saloon is solicitor involvement, as I said
before. I am sure that if GP had gone through this they
would have said as much: "Hyperion are even ignoring our
solicitors letters".
What I said stands Bill, their business ethics stink. Sure, Hyperions
might stink too.
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@Kronos
There are two things we know for a certain fact:
1. This has moved to a public slanging match.
2. The issue has not been resolved to the satisfaction of all parties.
Im not inclined to believe one over the other but I do know this,
things are not made better by public humiliation, they are made
worse. If you really want to resolve something you do not
back your "quarry" into a corner like this. You follow legal means,
once you start to get legal the "quarry" takes you seriously
and puts Paul ahead of Peter because Paul has called a lawyer
and Peter is just sending emails without return-receipt on.
Sure, I have my private opinion of the Bernie vs H+P issue
and frankly the vitriolic contribution of Harald have meant that I am more
likely to take Bernies side over the dispute. However that
is over a dispute and not the "going public" which I have
my own views on.
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Note also that GP did not want this thing cross posted
or reposted without his permission.
I still stand by my comments about using the public
as judge and jury being unprofessional and all too damn
frequently resorted to.
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[ duplicate ]
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@DaveP
I still stand by my comments about using the public as judge and jury being unprofessional and all too damn frequently resorted to.
Like I said, under normal circumstances I'd agree with you, but the Amiga market is such that settling things in court is very rarely a viable option, and that is a fact many companies play on when deciding to break their contractual agreements.
I still think making a point of attacking GPSoft over this is an overreaction. AFAIK, this issue is the only one GPSoft have gone public over, whereas I'm pretty sure we can dredge up at least half-a-dozen occasions when Ben Hermans has done the very same thing.
Like I said before, I think there should be more public knowledge about the behaviour of companies in the Amiga market, not less. What would have happened had Bernie not gone public about his dispute with H&P? I'll tell you:
Amiga Inc would till be whistling for their money. H&P would still be selling the package - no doubt in larger quantities than they are doing now, as distributors would be none-the-wiser. Bernie would have still left the scene, and been blamed for walking out because of greed, disinterest etc. leaving poor H&P and Harald Frank to pick up the pieces.
That, in short, is what "keeping it quiet" tends to achieve, and why so many corrupt companies and individuals have come to dominate the market.
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> This has moved to a public slanging match.
Except for the fact that there is only one side slinging mud
so far.
Hyperion is yet to comment (officially) on this (Ben's been
non-existent on ANN so far).
I'd say it's a good sign Ben hasn't made any harsh reply
yet- perhaps they are still trying to work something out
behind the scenes, where things like this should be
discussed?
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Speculation;
Hyperion is hard at work with OS4, don't have time to port DOpus, and as such haven't paid anything.. I don't know what license they hold, but it seems strange you have to pay anything when you're not even porting it, let alone selling it... ?
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More public acusations :griping: ... :-(
Anyway, Im interested for what Hyperion would need to pay license fees _now_? Without actually using / selling DOpus this seems a bit strange to me. :-?
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What is so hard to understand about they didn't get paid any money.
what is soooo hard about that? The e-mail states very clearly, there is no misunderstanding, they didn't pay the money.
so what will the first 1,000 comments be from the true believers: 'I'm sure its just a misunderstanding.'
AIYEEEEE...get a grip people.
It's bad enough Amiga doesn't have any money, they also go around signing contracts even though they know they don't have any money. They borrow money from the community to raise an additional 50K a-la OS4/AmigaOne pre-sales, where'd that money go?
This is HIGHLY UNETHICAL CONDUCT. OK!!! This former Amiga, Inc. fan is telling you. They borrowed 50 GRAND from the community pre-selling OS4.
The AmigaDE iniative maybe was just a disappointing move on the part of Amiga at one time, but now it is so much more than that. They borrowed 50 GRAND on PRE-SALES of OS4/AmigaOne, and they didn't use the money to complete OS4.
Borrowing money for the DE project is only OK, if you are honest about it. If you LIE and pre-sell a product with such and such features and behind the scenes you aren't working on it at all, and use the money you get from pre-sales to do other things....well that is just BS!
OK, I don't know why I bother with the comments, either you get it or you don't.
I was an AMIGA fan, I wanted Amiga, Inc. to do well.
They are a huge disappointment, I hope they go out and get real jobs at Burger King soon.
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btw, I do realize I cut out Hyperion and went straight for Amiga, Inc.
This is, in fact, the correct thing to do.. Hyperion IS under Amiga's contract. In the end this is 'Amiga' OS 4. An Amiga, Inc. product that will not have DOPUS, that was pre-sold.
If you don't understand why this is important....remember the internal business of hyperion and GPS has nothing to do with the Amiga community.
The issue for the Amiga community is the featureset of OS 4, and whether Amiga is going to deliver it (by whatever convoluted mechanism they choose to deliver it)...especially in light of the fact that many people have already purchased OS4. Via the party-pack, via the club membership, and via purchasing an actual AmigaONE board.
Now the featureset diminishes, and Amiga, Inc. is ultimately responsible for their product.
My guess, at least 2,000 copies of OS4 have already been sold via the above named mechanisms....maybe more. So Hyperion should have some cash to pay their contracts.
LETS TAKE A WILD GUESS, AMIGA INC HASN'T PONIED UP ANY MONEY.
OK, and this reminds me...who has received their club membership rebates?
:-)
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@MarkTime
Hyperion IS under Amiga's contract. In the end this is 'Amiga' OS 4. An Amiga, Inc. product that will not have DOPUS, that was pre-sold.
Not true. Hyperion are producing AOS4 under license. It will remain a Hyperion product until such a time as Amiga Inc buy it back from them. All immediate decisions about what is and what is not included with AOS4 are made exclusively by Hyperion and all the funding for the various contracts is done by Hyperion, who will retain those contracts until Amiga Inc purchase the whole AOS4 stuff from them, assuming that will ever happen.
AmigaOS 4 is a Hyperion product.
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@Ketzer
Anyway, Im interested for what Hyperion would need to pay license fees _now_?
Probably because they insisted on buying an exclusive porting license to PPC.
It depends on the clauses in the contract. If the contract only stipulates payments based on numbers of units sold, it's fair to expect Hyperion to start paying only after they've started selling. OTOH, if the exclusive license involves a down payment either as full or partial renumeration for the contract, then it makes sense to expect that to be paid within a reasonable time frame after the contract is signed. Certainly I would think we are way past that "reasonable time frame" now. There is no reason why GPSoft should be expected to wait until Hyperion feel like doing some work on DOpus before being paid.
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AmigaOS 4 is a Hyperion product.
In terms of your definitions you are correct. But you are being hard on the english language here (pardon me saying that as an american!)
I don't disagree with you about a technical statement that Hyperion is coding OS 4.
But it is Amiga, Inc., and not anyone else, that made the contract with the community by pre-selling OS 4. Hyperion didn't do that. That was all Amiga, Inc.
Maybe someone could argue that the I am Amiga Club, party pack coupons, and promises of free OS 4 that come with an AmigaOne, are not in fact pre-sales of OS 4.
But they sure as heck are...I'm not arguing this before a judge...this is a community board...PSSST they have been pre-selling OS 4 for many months now....
Nevermind what, who, where OS 4 is now....I could argue that the source code Hyperion owns the rights to, until Amiga buys it, isn't OS 4 either, until Amiga buys it....but never mind all that.
Amiga, Inc. has been selling something called 'Amiga OS 4'
they can pre-sell it, if it eventually is a product that they sell. But if that never happens at all, clearly wrong....if they sell something called OS 4, but its not the product everyone understood it to be....thats very dubious indeed.
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@ Jumpship ..
Dopus = Directory Opus.
Its a liddle bit like Xtree Gold. Only MUCH more superior.
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To Do or not to Do the OPUS.
The real stinger is: if you sign an agreement, you are supposed to live up to it.
Providing the parties involved are doing their part as prescribed in the agreement. Make the community "Amiga" look bad. Again.
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@MarkTime
In terms of your definitions you are correct. But you are being hard on the english language here (pardon me saying that as an american!)
Hard? I am being literal and accurate. What else is there?
I don't disagree with you about a technical statement that Hyperion is coding OS 4.
Hyperion owns AmigaOS4. They needed licenses off Amiga Inc to use the old sources and to use the name, but Hyperion own the final product. There simply is no doubt about that.
But it is Amiga, Inc., and not anyone else, that made the contract with the community by pre-selling OS 4. Hyperion didn't do that. That was all Amiga, Inc.
One has to wonder at the wisdom of the community in giving them the money. Amiga Inc made a contract with the community, sure, but they will have to re-imburse Hyperion and/or the distributors, or maybe even the users directly when the product is on sale. Hyperion, and everyone else will tell you they themselves are not bound by any deal Amiga Inc made.
Sadly, this is irrelevant in terms of investment into actually producing OS4.
Maybe someone could argue that the I am Amiga Club, party pack coupons, and promises of free OS 4 that come with an AmigaOne, are not in fact pre-sales of OS 4.
But they sure as heck are...I'm not arguing this before a judge...this is a community board...PSSST they have been pre-selling OS 4 for many months now....
Nevermind what, who, where OS 4 is now....I could argue that the source code Hyperion owns the rights to, until Amiga buys it, isn't OS 4 either, until Amiga buys it....but never mind all that.
It is AmigaOS4, because Hyperion have a license to use that name for it.
Amiga, Inc. has been selling something called 'Amiga OS 4'
No, they've been selling some coupons.
they can pre-sell it, if it eventually is a product that they sell. But if that never happens at all, clearly wrong....if they sell something called OS 4, but its not the product everyone understood it to be....thats very dubious indeed.
What people think AmigaOS4 should be is not Amiga Inc's responsibility, it's that of the people themselves.
To put it simply: Amiga Inc have been pre-selling a product they expect to be on the market "soon". This doesn't have to mean it is their product, or that the responsibility for funding development lies with them.
Sure, people gave Amiga Inc a bunch of notes on the understanding that they would be getting X, Y and Z. Frankly, more fool them. I'm still amazed at the number of folks who fell for the scam - which is how I regard it until proven otherwise.
Bottom line is this: Amiga Inc have nothing to do with the DOpus issue. They never promised Hyperion they would fund the purchase, and I'm sure Hyperion will confirm that they never expected Amiga Inc to fund it either. This is purely and issue between Hyperion and GPSoft, and it should have been resolved months ago.
There are plenty of reasons to criticise Amiga Inc, and I'll be the first to point the accusing finger at them on any number of issues, but let's not make things up that simply aren't true.
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I don't know what's happen, but give it a chance both parties, OS4 is way too important project to let go like that!
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> OS4 does not need Directory Opus to look nice.
> From what I've seen from the screenshots, OS4 looks much better than I ever though it would.
I agree with this 100%. BUT DOpus is not to make WB LOOK good. It is make it more functional. If you do not use the extra functionality of DOpus, fine. But I hardly think anyone can deny that it adds considerable power to the old WB. If I have to go into a list of all its features, then you don't know much about the program.
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I must apologize to all involved.
I love this program. It enhances MY computing experience and makes MY computer work easier.
I was cleaning up my OLD emails and came across this thread that said something about DOpus & AmigaOS4 in the works. I further noticed that there was a lack of follow-up information anywhere to be found. I was simply curious if this was dropped, still in the works, etc. I revived the topic on the DOpus5 mailing list. Dr Perry was simply responding honestly to MY inquiry. He did not bring up the subject to bad mouth Hyperion or leverage them. He was merely voicing his frustrations to someone who asked the question. Perhaps he should have just said, "No comment", but how would that have gotten misconstrued?
It is amazing to me how my simple inquiry has turned into such vicious personal attacks on everyone involved. It is simply juvenile.
If you like it great. If you don't like it, fine too. But I don't understand anyone that still uses the Amiga turning their noses up at any decent programs for our platform. That seems like suicide to me. I would rather have many choices to fit my tastes than only the 4 most popular programs as my only choices.
JFTR, if I got stiffed on a business deal and someone asked me how it was going, I would have most likely responded the same. If contracts are being honored, there would be nothing ill to say about it, would there?
For me, I will stop asking pointless questions on this subject.. and just wait to see how it turns out.
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@Bill
Note I said Ben Fleecy and Bill.
"I still think making a point of attacking GPSoft over this is an overreaction. AFAIK, this issue is the only one GPSoft have gone public over, whereas I'm pretty sure we can dredge up at least half-a-dozen occasions when Ben Hermans has done the very same thing."
This is a financial dispute, not allegations of sleaze
( which I agree are bad enough ) and the May post
was put out there to cause a furore AFTER only emails had been resorted to. The route to take is known to all companies.
We will have to disagree about my reaction to GPSoft being an "over-reaction".
Bernie, correct me if I am wrong went through a hell of a lot more than just a few emails that were not responded to before using the public to try and convict H+P and HF on his behalf.
If all GPSoft do is not get an answer to a few emails before they go public I would put it to you that THEY are the ones that over-reacted and acted precipitously and this Mailing List comment no matter how provoked is secondary.
I am not an apologist for anyone, and never will be and was quite offended that you thought I was apologising for Hyperion.
In the real world, you just do not do business this
way and you CERTAINLY do not handle disputes this way.
Saying that because Ben Hermans nailed Thendic and BPlan to the wall over MorphOS justifies a greater lapse in standards of someone else is just apologism for GPSoft.
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@AvatharV
"JFTR, if I got stiffed on a business deal and someone asked me how it was going, I would have most likely responded the same. If contracts are being honored, there would be nothing ill to say about it, would there?"
JFTR if you got shafted on a contract then you have to open a dispute. The dispute either gets resolved before legal action or it goes to court. If it goes to court and you win then you can beat your chest and say you were wronged. Until that point it is a dispute.
You are accepting the word of GPSoft on this only knowing what GPSoft has said on the subject and using the "no smoke without fire" argument.
In the real world real people follow due process to resolve disputes. In this Amiga fantasy world run by idiotic schoolboys who have never grown up it seems to be "get my side of the story out first to the public ... lets have a trial by media".
It is NOT an action to be respected no matter who does it, Buck, Hermans or Perry.
If Greg had said "No comment" then he would have had at least part of my respect left - most of which went when that clearly inflammatory newsgroup post was put up there.
There is something political here, perhaps it is that GPSofts claim is not that strong because of contractual issues or perhaps they are running out of money. Who knows, it is not our place to judge the outcome of the dispute but we can certainly condemn the methods that one of the party has resorted to in order to "resolve" it.
For you to disregard what has been said on this subject as "personal attacks" suggests that this is not the outcome to the debate that you wanted either which makes me question your motives.
I don't side with GPSoft or Hyperion over the matter of the dispute, but I do criticise heavily Mr Perry for resorting to trial by media rather than resolving it through standard business and legal methods.
The fact that he did not either suggests he is unprofessional OR that he does not have a strong enough position to win through on a due process which also suggests a lack of professionalism on dealing with contracts.
Bloody amateurs, the lot of em ( Amiga based business people ).
Bloody witch hunters, the lot of em ( Amiga community members ).
GP @ Hyperion: Its a witch!!!!!!!!
Community: Burn her! Burn her!
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@Marktime
I don't know why you bother reading the comments either because you clearly don't read them properly.
"what is soooo hard about that? The e-mail states very clearly, there is no misunderstanding, they didn't pay the money."
Ah, Im glad you are not a judge. If one side sayes "he stole from me" that is enough for you is it? No need for corroberating evidence?
You are a witch burner, no more no less.
All you know at the moment is that GPSoft CLAIMS that no money has been paid. You don't know if firstly that it has not, secondly that the contract really obliged the other party to pay it. In fact because you haven't seen any contract, clauses or further submissions from either party you are not qualified to judge jackshit.
This was what pissed me off over Amiga Inc vs MorphOS and what pisses me off with GPSoft. Using what is clearly a bunch of easily led half civilized savages to be judge and jury with less than 10% of the story.
GET INTO COURT!!!!!!!
8-) :-o
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They are in breach of the contract for non-payment of contract fees so
DOpus development in OS4 cannot proceed. We are quite a bit peeved that
they used the good name of DOpus and GPSoftware to promote their own
activities and then refused to honour the contract we signed in good
faith.
My question is...
What kind of contract would this be?
I didn't see any signs of Opus in the screenshots.
OS4 isn't even being sold yet.
(http://mooglefred.free.fr/principal/diablo/waypoint.gif)
How can there be a break in contract?
I wouldn't think that Greg Perry would make false claims, but then again....
Who knows these days.
I never will forget when he left the Amiga to go PC though.
He didn't even fix the installer script in Megellan 2.
That was kinda like a breech in contract too.
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@DaveP
Bernie, correct me if I am wrong went through a hell of a lot more than just a few emails that were not responded to before using the public to try and convict H+P and HF on his behalf.
Oh, the mails were responded to eventually, it's just that the the responses were unsatisfactory. However it's true that Bernie only went public after terminating his contract with H&P.
Having said that, the whole process took a helluva lot less time than the six months we're looking at in this case.
I think we will have to agree to disagree about the ethical values of the people involved here. IMHO, the only thing GPSoft have done wrong is to not permanently terminate Hyperion's contract before making the public statement. Of course, had they done so a positive resolution would have become impossible, and many people would have still blamed GPSoft for being greedy rather than accept any criticism of Hyperion.
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From what I see all that really needed to be said is:
GPSoft is currently unable to continue development of DOpus due to misscomunication between Hyperion and ourselves. Once this has been cleared up we can contiune.
It gets the point accross without going into the specifics that, lets face it, we don't really need to know. At the end of the day, without a copy of the contract NONE of us can comment on wether or not this is true Or if Greg is in the right. But either way he could have gone about it in other ways rather then on a public messege board
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;-) I use DOpus Magellan II on my A4000, and would have wanted to see some of its functionality included in AmigaOS4 as standard, rather than as an add-on replacement available later.
:-( It will be a shame if this cannot be resolved to everyone's satisfaction....
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It's a pitty that Dopus isn't a certainty on OS4. If it wasn't for Dopus Magellan II, I would've put my A4k in storage years ago. Dopus 6 even makes windblows usable. I hope we do see Dopus on OS 4 and native..
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I for one like DOpus4 better than any of the later versions, and DOpus4 is now open source. I hope it will be ported to a PPC-native OS4 version.
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@createcoms
Well Mr Perry can go *()&%^&*(%^&*^%& himself. OS4 is sexy as ATM, I am enjoying the features added so far and feel its no loss.
You must have a leaked beta copy of AmigaOS4 to be enjoying using all these advanced features!
Guess what.. AmigaOS4 hasn't been released yet.. you must have an illegal copy!!!
:-D
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I for one use opus magellan 2 and i hope it will be available for os4 its great